View Full Version : In need of sleeping bag advice
Hey all -- I've been trying to upgrade my sleeping bag from a pretty heavy 20 degree bag I have now to a lighter weight one. Im going to be starting either late february or early march so I am expecting it to get pretty cold but I sleep warm. I think a 20 degree bag will meet my needs for the cold, and also be useable for a while before I possibly switch to a summer bag. Any suggestions on Brand/Model/Material are welcome. Ideally I'd like to spend between 100-300. Thanks in advance
Studlintsean
01-20-2016, 15:07
Hey all -- I've been trying to upgrade my sleeping bag from a pretty heavy 20 degree bag I have now to a lighter weight one. Im going to be starting either late february or early march so I am expecting it to get pretty cold but I sleep warm. I think a 20 degree bag will meet my needs for the cold, and also be useable for a while before I possibly switch to a summer bag. Any suggestions on Brand/Model/Material are welcome. Ideally I'd like to spend between 100-300. Thanks in advance
Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering, and Montbell are all known as top of the line (as well as others such as Marmot, Valandre, etc). If I were in your shoes, I would not skimp on the sleeping bag. I own a Western Mountaineering Alpinelite and have used it down to the low- mid teens and been warm. That said, my brother thru hiked this year starting March 6th with a NF Cat's Meow that is at least 8 years old and i'd guess a few of those years it was stored compressed so it has probably lost some loft.
I haven't been in the GA mountains so keep that in ind. I have seen others suggest a 10 degree bag.
soumodeler
01-20-2016, 15:26
Do not skimp on the sleeping bag. WM is a great brand, but are over $500 but will last a lifetime. Get the best quality bag you can afford. If you MUST stay under $300, try the REI Igneo bag. Decent, 19*, and $299. I have one and it is a fairly nice bag for the price. However, I will be replacing it next winter with a higher quality quilt.
There have been several quality names mentioned. I have personal experience with Marmot (started in late March with a Pinnacle 15* bag). My experience with Marmot is that their temp ratings are conservative. I have had my 15* bag down to about 0 (with a quality pad of course) and been comfortable. One other option to consider is the CampSaver down bags. They may save you some $ over Marmot, FF, WM, etc.and they are always well recommended by others in these threads (this topic does come up a bit). I have to say that I have never used one however so take this advice fwiw.
Take a look at Enlightened Equipment's quilts. They are very high quality, offer down from 800 to 950 fill both treated and natural, and are much more versatile than a sleeping bag. They're also much less expensive than WM, FF or Montbell.
DuneElliot
01-20-2016, 16:44
I'm going to +1 on Enlightened Equipment. They are cheaper but amazing quality and give you so many options, including 3 different widths, 3 different lengths, a dozen colors (and you can choose different interior and exterior colors), warmth rating, down fill power (and regular or dri-down), 3 different styles (full quilt, footbox quilt or Convert with zipper). Their customer service is impeccable also.
jbmundy87
01-20-2016, 17:03
+1 for the REI Igneo. 19deg bag at just over 2lbs for the long. Ocasionally on sale for close to $250.
OP - you give your budget and naturally almost everyone wants to tell you to spend more, almost certainly you want down, and while the top brands are nice there is a lot of middle ground that does the job - it is simple to search for requirements at online retailers - here is campmor:
https://www.campmor.com/SearchDisplay?searchTermScope=&searchType=0&filterTerm=&orderBy=3&maxPrice=&langId=-1&beginIndex=0&cg1=200368315&sType=SimpleSearch&cg2=200368298&facetFilter=Down%3B+15-35+Degree+%3B+Mummy+&metaData=YWRzX2YxMDAzOV9udGtfY3M6IkRvd24iPE1UQFNQP mFkc19mMTAwNzlfbnRrX2NzOiIxNS0zNSBEZWdyZWUiPE1UQFN QPmFkc19mMTAwNzJfbnRrX2NzOiJNdW1teSI%3D&pageSize=28&manufacturer=&resultCatEntryType=&catalogId=40000000226&searchTerm=*&minPrice=&categoryId=200368355&storeId=226
Add a good sleeping pad/mattress into the budget. R-5 minimum.
My sleeping system of choice is a Western Mountaineering Alpinlite with an Xtherm Large under me and an Exped Air Pillow (the red one) under my head. Best night's sleep ever.
A word about Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends: Both companies make different sized bahs (internal dimensions) for the same temperature rating. My Alpinlites is WM's wide body version rated at 20 degrees. The Ultralite is the slim & trim version. Pay attention to the internal dimensions when looking at bags on the WM web pages. Feathered Friends has the same information for their models online.
I finally got a chance to test my Alpinlite to 26 degrees recently in a windproof tent on my Xtherm. I had on a layer of wool long unerwear and light wool sock. I didn't zip the bag more than half way and the hood & neck collar were loose all night. Really nice bag. If you ever get to see one in person you will want one. The zipper is totally snag proof. In the dark with your eyes closed. Which is usually when you need to operate a sleeping bag zipper.
Have fun shopping.
Wayne
Not to start a Chevy vs. Ford feud, but a comparable EE 20 deg 850 fill quilt is over $250 less expensive than a WM Alpinlites. Very difficult for me to see the value equation for purchasing WM.
BTW Chevy's rule!
nsherry61
01-20-2016, 20:53
Another +1 for the REI Igneo. It's a bit narrow (saves weight) for some people. If you are okay with the width, the price/performance/weight is amazing.
poolskaterx
01-20-2016, 21:27
Another +1 for the REI Igneo. It's a bit narrow (saves weight) for some people. If you are okay with the width, the price/performance/weight is amazing.
...and another +1 on this bag; I spent a ton of time researching bags and dollar vs oz worth; got it on sale for $229! Hard to beat at sub 2lb with waterproof down and exterior panels. Been in it in the low teens in the sierras and have been very happy for the money/weight/compressed size.
Not to start a Chevy vs. Ford feud, but a comparable EE 20 deg 850 fill quilt is over $250 less expensive than a WM Alpinlites. Very difficult for me to see the value equation for purchasing WM.
BTW Chevy's rule!
If you get the EE quilt, you have to get a more expensive sleeping pad though right?
If you get the EE quilt, you have to get a more expensive sleeping pad though right?
Perhaps, I use BA pads rated at 15 deg. A sleeping bag's insulation will collapse when you lay on it reducing it's loft so the insulation value is greatly diminished. Most of the underside insulation is from the pad not the sleeping bag
The cost savings over WM or FF will buy a pretty nice pad and lots of sushi boats.
I went to a quilt because they fit a wider range of temperatures and I toss and turn.
DuneElliot
01-21-2016, 09:44
You need the same kind of sleeping pad whether you buy a quilt or sleeping bag. As Hosh mentioned, you compress the insulation in a sleeping bag under you so that it is basically useless and not providing any insulation. Synthetic provides slightly more insulation at this point because, by nature, it is less compressible from the get go. Nice pads don't have to be expensive either.
You need the same kind of sleeping pad whether you buy a quilt or sleeping bag. As Hosh mentioned, you compress the insulation in a sleeping bag under you so that it is basically useless and not providing any insulation. Synthetic provides slightly more insulation at this point because, by nature, it is less compressible from the get go. Nice pads don't have to be expensive either.
Any pad recommendations then? I'm not a fan of one's you have to blow up
Any pad recommendations then? I'm not a fan of one's you have to blow up
I carried an Exped 7 on my thruhike. It is a bit heavy but it is warm, has an integrated pump, and is super comfortable. Sleep is a no compromise item for me. I also have an Exped 9 (built in pump) for winter trips. Carried a lighter Nemo pad (I think it was the Cosmo?) with an integrated pump on my backpacking trip to Scotland last year. That is a good option as well. (My Exped 7 finally ruptured after a thru hike and many shorter section hikes and just plain old car camping. It served me well)). At my age, I like the integrated pumps vs. blowing them up so I will carry a few oz. extra. Most important criteria is - it has to be comfortable and provide required insulation based on expected conditions.These options work for me.
DuneElliot
01-21-2016, 12:46
Any pad recommendations then? I'm not a fan of one's you have to blow up
I see a lot of the Thermarest Z-Lites or similar. They are CCF pads so provide insulation but not much cushioning. I have a Klymit pad, but it's an air pad I have to blow up. I'm a side sleeper so to be comfortable and have a good night of sleep I need a thicker air pad. You have to know what works for you and how you sleep.
nsherry61
01-21-2016, 13:12
Any pad recommendations then? I'm not a fan of one's you have to blow up
Recommendation #1: Watch this YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzBb5oBBd3E). And then never sweat having to inflate an inflatable again.
Recommendation #2: Use an inflatable pad because they are lighter and smaller and more comfortable than self-inflating pads.
Recommendation #3: For truly cold conditions, pair up CCF pad with your inflatable. That way you don't need to buy a special winter inflatable to get the insulation you need, just pair your summer inflatable with your CCF. And, with the CCF you are never deathly cold just because you spring a leak in your inflatable. And with the CCF you have a convenient place to sit in the snow and/or rain.
Recommendation #4: If you are trying to be particularly budget conscious, REI has some surprisingly light, functional, and inexpensive inflatable pads this year (the Stratus, the Flash, or the Cirrus).
Recommendation #5: If you can sleep comfortably on just a CCF pad, go for it and save yourself some money. If you can sleep flat on your back comfortably all night, then a CCF pad (maybe 2 CCF pads in the winter - one full length and one torso length) is really quite adequate.
P.S. I personally like the Termarest Z-lite pads a lot, just because of how easy they are to work with, as CCF pads go.
P.P.S. As noted above, using a quilt does not change the amount of insulation you need underneath, but it is more comfortable to sleep with cloths on when you are directly on your pad, if you do not normally sleep with at least long-johns and long-sleeves.
Have fun!
Another +1 for the REI Igneo. It's a bit narrow (saves weight) for some people. If you are okay with the width, the price/performance/weight is amazing.
to the OP, this is an important point in picking a bag and often overlooked...some brands/makes are snugger than others. i tried out several in various outfitters and stores, even ordered a few on line to check out, before deciding on the marmot. It was roomier inside and I tend to toss and turn quite a bit. Some brands are very restrictive or tight feeling to me. make sure you check an on line retailer's return policy if doing this although most of the reputable ones are generous. IIRC, no local outfitters carried Montbell so the only way for me to check one out was via internet order.
FWIW, even if one does decide on going the quilt route, I'd recommend for entry starting out using a quilt in higher temps and proceeding to lower temps. Other words don't start out with 20* quilts or using a quilt in regular 20* temps. IMHO, there is more of a fiddle factor with quilt use verse conventional sleeping bags. Seems better to understand that in personal use on trail in warmer conditions rather than at 20*?
And, if you're looking at quilts from a wt saving perspective, which IMO modern UL backpacking quilts largely motivationally arose, it makes less sense to use a heavier 20* rated quilt in 50(40*?) temps on a reg basis. BTW, perhaps I'm mistaken, but there are no hard and set rules like EN sleeping bag temp ratings for quilts so you're back to opening the door to fudging of sleep temp ratings.
I haven't seen EN ratings on quilts either. EE uses loft height as a guide to temperature rating. Trying a lower rated quilt in a warmer environment is a good idea. An advantage of quilts is you can open them up and vent body heat.
It should also be noted that almost if not all manufacturers assume that the user has base layers and head wear on to be comfortable at the rated temps.
. BTW, perhaps I'm mistaken, but there are no hard and set rules like EN sleeping bag temp ratings for quilts so you're back to opening the door to fudging of sleep temp ratings.
Good point, in the case of EE, they will accept a return/swap on a limited basis. When I bought my first quilt, I emailed them with some specifics about sleep patterns, body size and general hiking/camping environment. They were very helpful on selecting a size and temp rating that fit me well.
I think many of the cottage manufacturers don't get an EN rating due to it's cost. It is true that some have taken liberties with their specs. Loft isn't a bad way to compare between manufactures, but it won't work for a person's comfort zone unless they have a baseline.
Casey & Gina
01-21-2016, 17:18
Any pad recommendations then? I'm not a fan of one's you have to blow up
I tried out so many pads. Some were uncomfortable. Some develop leaks way too fast. Nearly all made me uneasy and didn't seem that nice. I now carry a RidgeRest Solar (R-value of 3.5) as it is virtually indestructible, lightweight, and I find it quite comfortable. For winter camping, I also carry a RidgeRest Classic (R-value of 2.6) that I put underneath of the Solar to have a total R-value of 6.1. Since I carry all the gear for my wife and I, this means I actually carry four closed cell foam pads. The bulk scared me at first but really isn't that bad in practice. I tried the Z-Lites but don't like them nearly as much and find the rolls both easier to lash on, warmer, and more comfortable. You can also cut them to whatever size you like if you are more of a minimalist.
If I did go with something that held air, it would be the ProLite Plus. Self-inflating and a heck of a lot more comfortable than bouncy blow-up ones.
nsherry61
01-21-2016, 17:28
. . . a heck of a lot more comfortable than bouncy blow-up ones.
Be careful lumping all the blow-up pads into the bouncy category. Yes, many are, but some aren't. Probably the least bouncy are the new Sea-to-Summit pads, wow. But also, any of the square quilted ones (like Big Agnes Q-core series or REI Cirrus) are reasonably stable and comfortable, and smaller, lighter and more padded than the ProLite.
Casey & Gina
01-21-2016, 17:33
Be careful lumping all the blow-up pads into the bouncy category. Yes, many are, but some aren't. Probably the least bouncy are the new Sea-to-Summit pads, wow. But also, any of the square quilted ones (like Big Agnes Q-core series or REI Cirrus) are reasonably stable and comfortable, and smaller, lighter and more padded than the ProLite.
I have two brand new Q-core mattresses that I used only indoors for a couple weeks when we were in the middle of moving. Both have sprung multiple leaks, not from punctures but at the seams in the middle where the layers are welded together. Baffles fail on Expeds. I would only use Therm-a-Rest or Nemo if going with an inflatable, though they aren't perfect either. Also when considering insulation, be aware that the Sea-to-Summit pads only insulate the center portion of the pad, leaving cold spots all around the edges. I tried many pads and investigated many more before making my mind up. Certainly inflatables work out okay for most people, but they aren't my cup of tea.
Any inflatable is subject to punctures, I had 2 Expeds fail back to back straight from the retailer.
If you haven't already, send your BA pads back for replacement. I had to field repair one that an ember landed on and the repair was messy. I sent it back to be done "professionally", they sent me a new pad, no charge.