View Full Version : WM Terralite vs FF Egret UL 20
kimbur96
01-20-2016, 18:16
I think i have narrowed my bag choice down to a WM Terralite and a FF Egret UL 20. Both of these bags are rated for colder than I think I will ever been, but I figure it's better to be to warm than too cold. The specs seem almost the same WM wt 1.11ox FF 1.11ox, Fill WM 850 down, FF 900 down, Temp WM 25F FF 20F, Price WM $470, FF $450.
Any one have any input or experience with either of these?
Cant go wrong with either one.
DuneElliot
01-20-2016, 18:36
Why not go with Enlightened Equipment bag or quilt? Same rating, same weights, $125 or more cheaper! I'd highly recommend them.
kimbur96
01-20-2016, 18:41
Why not go with Enlightened Equipment bag or quilt? Same rating, same weights, $125 or more cheaper! I'd highly recommend them.
I know EE is highly recommended on this site and i spent a lot of time on their website reading about their equipment. I just don't know that I could get used to a quilt. I toss and turn a lot. Also, right know i have a fairly low rated sleeping pad, so for a quilt to work i would have to buy a higher rated pad and thus it wouldn't really save me any money.
As a fellow tosser and turner, that's why I bought a quilt. Much easier to move around than a sleeping bag, especially a tapered mummy design. Your sleeping bag provides very little insulation when it is crushed against a pad or ground. The loft is reduced to nearly zero.
I own two Western Mountaineering bags. I've never seen a Feathered Friends bag.
My biased opinion: WM.
I'm not really sure why you would pick the Terralite, unless you need the gigantic internal space. I'm 5'-8" and 145 pounds. I was probably going to buy the WM Sycamore. Then I found a deal on an Alpinlite Long. Didn't need the extra room of the long, but the price was right. Think about it.
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/sleeping-bags/microfiber-series/sycamore-mf/
Wayne
As a fellow tosser and turner, that's why I bought a quilt. Much easier to move around than a sleeping bag, especially a tapered mummy design. Your sleeping bag provides very little insulation when it is crushed against a pad or ground. The loft is reduced to nearly zero.
You've never seen a Terralite. It's like two quilts joined around the perimeter with zipper. It's ROOMY!
Wayne
DuneElliot
01-21-2016, 09:47
EE does a Convert sleeping quilt/bad, with a zipper. It's what I have. I use it as a quilt in warmer weather and a sleeping bag in cooler weather...best of both worlds.
And no, the sleeping pad would need to be the same either way. Do some research on why many people favor quilts...you compress the insulation underneath you, rendering it pretty much useless so why carry the extra weight. And if you toss and turn, like I do, just get a slightly bigger quilt.
A 40 degree quilt over a proper 20 degree sleeping bag will get down to zero or below and give you the foot box, neck collar and hood to keep all of your heat in.
Just Bill has studied on all of this and concluded that 20 degrees is the break point between quilts and full featured sleeping bags like those from WM & FF. As for tossing and turning, the wide body model bags have ample room inside.
Wayne
Casey & Gina
01-21-2016, 11:06
Both are excellent companies. I chose Feathered Friends and am *very* happy. I chose FF over WM as they are a smaller outfit and are willing to do some amount of customization upon request (and for additional cost). For instance if you wanted different materials, zipper sizes, or down overfill on your bag. I had the outer layer of my bag upgraded to Pertex Shield and had a little extra down added. Craftsmanship is superb!
Puddlefish
01-21-2016, 14:03
I own two Western Mountaineering bags. I've never seen a Feathered Friends bag.
My biased opinion: WM.
I'm not really sure why you would pick the Terralite, unless you need the gigantic internal space. I'm 5'-8" and 145 pounds. I was probably going to buy the WM Sycamore. Then I found a deal on an Alpinlite Long. Didn't need the extra room of the long, but the price was right. Think about it.
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/sleeping-bags/microfiber-series/sycamore-mf/
Wayne
You've pretty much sold me on the roomy Terralite, I had no idea it was so wide. I'm average sized human, but I tend to sprawl when I sleep. Time to start saving my pennies.
Casey & Gina
01-21-2016, 14:36
You've pretty much sold me on the roomy Terralite, I had no idea it was so wide. I'm average sized human, but I tend to sprawl when I sleep. Time to start saving my pennies.
Not to put you off of WM, but do keep in mind that FF also makes large bags. My FF Condor is a full 25" wide from head to toe if used solo, or 50" wide if used as a quilt in conjunction with a groundsheet. My advice would be to figure out what form factor of bag you want (mummy, semi-rec, or fully rectangular), and what warmth rating you need, then talk to both companies about what they can provide that meet your wants, what materials or other options are available, and what the cost will be.
Puddlefish
01-21-2016, 15:00
Not to put you off of WM, but do keep in mind that FF also makes large bags. My FF Condor is a full 25" wide from head to toe if used solo, or 50" wide if used as a quilt in conjunction with a groundsheet. My advice would be to figure out what form factor of bag you want (mummy, semi-rec, or fully rectangular), and what warmth rating you need, then talk to both companies about what they can provide that meet your wants, what materials or other options are available, and what the cost will be.
I'm not adverse to the quilt idea, but I've already spent far too much on gear already this year. I'm considering butchering/sewing my Hyperlamia Spark 35 into a quilt. A better cold weather bag would be on next year's (maybe this fall's) wishlist. I have plenty of time to research.
I'm not convinced the specs are reasonably comparable in a very important criteria. The dimensions of each of these bags are vastly different.
54" / 56" / 38" for the FF Egret UL
65"/68"/42" for the WM Terralite
Those are huge differences in dimensions. Dimensions of sleeping bags is critically important. You're dropping $400+ too. I'd get the dimensions dialed in before choosing by thinking about how you want either to function in a larger scheme of things.
+1 to what Venchka said. In essence the WM Terralite has the ability to function as a quilt. Terralite is massively roomy, which can have pros as well as cons. For example, if you're not a big woman or your body type dimensions don't jive with all that extra space a Terralite may be harder for you to warm up in near it's lowest temp rating. Or, with all that space some choose a Terralite to take below the lowest temp rating by sleeping in puffy volumnous layers to take up that space.
54" shoulder girth? A dwarf might feel comfortable in that. That must be a woman's bag. I had a 59" girth bag that I could sleep in. But it was snug. I passed it to my granddaughter.
When I started bag shopping I tried the WM Ultralite. 59" shoulder girth. The comfy hood, collar, zipper and foot box couldn't overcome the tight fit. When I tried the Alpinlite I bought it I can move inside!
I still think that the inner dimensions of the WM Versalite and Antelope are perfect for anyone my size. Not confining and not too much space to heat up. The Antelope is my near winter bag.
In sleeping bags, size really does matter. Pay attention to more than just weight and price. Down fill power is totally over hyped. Loft thickness over your body is far more important.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Fixed dimensions might wisely be considered in accordance to how one sleeps too. Sure, I'd love a FF Hummingbird UL 20* to save another 2-3 ozs but the dimensions are simply too tight for my body dimensions and my side to side sleeping. Had to go with the FF Swallow UL a bit bigger in the critical shoulder, hip, feet dimensions.
kimbur96
01-21-2016, 22:11
Pay attention to more than just weight and price. Down fill power is totally over hyped. Loft thickness over your body is far more important.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Sorry if this is a stupid question, still learning, but can you explain what you mean by this statement?
Loft, expressed in inches, is how insulation in a sleeping bag is measured. Loft numbers are hard to find these days. There are tables you can find online that relate inches of loft to temperature ratings.
However, only the top half of the bag's loft is providing the most insulation. So, if you have a bag with 6" of total loft, divide by 2 and you have 3" of down insulation keeping you warm.
I don't have a table in front of me, but I did compare the 3 bags I have owned and the break down as:
2.75" = 20 degrees
3" = 10 degrees
3.5 = 0-5 degrees
2" = 30 degrees (If I remember correctly)
This all approximate. Everyone is different. Put 3 people in identical bags at the same temperature. 1 will be hot. 1 will be just right. 1 will be cold.
Insulation under you, clothes worn inside the bag, shelter, etc. will all make a difference in how you sleep when it is cold enough to need a good bag.
Another factor folks rarely mention are bags without a side block baffle. This allows you to move some down to the top when it's cold or the bottom when it's hot.
Lots of things to ponder. I hope I helped.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
You've never seen a Terralite. It's like two quilts joined around the perimeter with zipper. It's ROOMY!
Wayne
You're right about the Terralite, I did review WM's product line and found them to be extra expensive for no perceived value. To each his own, but an equivalent EE quilt is almost $200 less expensive and 10 ounces lighter.
Not sure what attracts people to WM. For me they are over priced for the functionality of their products.
DuneElliot
01-22-2016, 12:10
You're right about the Terralite, I did review WM's product line and found them to be extra expensive for no perceived value. To each his own, but an equivalent EE quilt is almost $200 less expensive and 10 ounces lighter.
Not sure what attracts people to WM. For me they are over priced for the functionality of their products.
Couldn't agree more with this sentiment. And the EE Convert, of the same rating (20*), is 25oz and 64" girth at $325. I looked at WM and couldn't justify the cost of one when something handmade to my specs was so much cheaper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqcQC5H1HpQ
I'd rather consider ProLite's experienced insider opinions.
I'm a quilt user and currently have two Enlightened Equipment quilts. I also have had three different model WM bags, have two now, will maybe add another deep winter bag to my quiver, and have slept in two other different models.
Value, functionality, and what is deemed gear appropriate is determined by each individually in different situations. Looking beyond our own worlds we can see that.
Little doubt ProLite is experienced and opinionated. Also little doubt, they enjoy marketing and selling a very, very high margin product.
Different strokes for different folks.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Little doubt ProLite is experienced and opinionated. Also little doubt, they enjoy marketing and selling a very, very high margin product.
Have you actually tried to buy a "very, very high margin product." from ProLite?
Give it up Hosh. It's a free country. You are free to buy and use anything you like. As are the rest of us. It would be nice if we were free from your editorial comments.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Wayne thanks for acknowledging my freedom, not really necessary but appreciated.
Apparently your "biased opinion" has a greater value, at least in your own world.
My point was only to offer quilts as an alternative, as others on the thread have done and point out that there are may be better value other than purchasing a very expensive option for a "roomy" sleeping bag.
Peace out
My bias is based on being a happy customer. I may also add a quilt to my inventory. "Right tool for the job"
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
You can't go wrong with either of these bags. I am personally favorable to FF because I own 2 and have found them to be excellent products. My FF bag is also a little wider than the comparable WM bag and it also unzips to make quilt. I also have quilts (jacks are better) but prefer my bag because it is actually a bit wider than my quilt and I am a flip/flopper at night.