Factory permethrin treated clothing

[Wrong Direction]

From my research it appears that clothing treated with permethrin in the factory will retain its effectiveness longer than that treated at home. I am looking for a contact where I could send my clothing to have it pretreated. Any ideas?

[Old Grouse]

Insect Shield.com

[swisscross]

I like the idea but wow is that expensive.
I think I paid what they charge for one garment for an entire bottle of concentrate.

Never really calculated the cost but for about a dollar I can treat everything I own. Kidding of course but not by much.

[Old Grouse]

True, but are you considering that self-treating lasts for six washings whereas professional treatment lasts for 70 washings? That significantly impacts your cost calculations.

[Snowleopard]

http://www.insectshield.com/PDF/IS_Your_Own_Clothes_-_US_form_revised_3-23-2015.pdf
$9.95/item plus shipping.

[Offshore]

True, but are you considering that self-treating lasts for six washings whereas professional treatment lasts for 70 washings? That significantly impacts your cost calculations.

And I'd bet most people who use the Sawyer spray under treat their clothing. According to Sawyer, you're supposed to use 3 ounces per garment (a pair of socks counts as one garment). Add up the cost of treating at home according to the label directions, and the InsectShield becomes the better deal. The other issue is that the home treatment is good for 6 washings or 6 weeks. With the InsectShield treated clothing, its 70 washings with no stated time limit, so you're always ready to go.

[HooKooDooKu]

http://www.insectshield.com/PDF/IS_Your_Own_Clothes_-_US_form_revised_3-23-2015.pdf
$9.95/item plus shipping.
That's not a bad price compared to garments that have been treated by the manufacturer.

As an example, look at ExOfficio Nomad Pants v. ExOfficio BugsAway Ziwa Pants. Both are 100% nylon, both quote a weight of 9oz, both pretty much look the same.
The full retail price of the Nomad is $75 and the Ziwa is $95. On Sierra Trading Post, these can be had for $49.95 and $59.95... a $10 difference.
That's seems to be in line with the cost of garments that have been treated by the manufacturer.

I recently noticed that ExOfficio clothing has about a $10 difference in its cloths that have been treated v. those that have not.

[Offshore]

That's not a bad price compared to garments that have been treated by the manufacturer.

As an example, look at ExOfficio Nomad Pants v. ExOfficio BugsAway Ziwa Pants. Both are 100% nylon, both quote a weight of 9oz, both pretty much look the same.
The full retail price of the Nomad is $75 and the Ziwa is $95. On Sierra Trading Post, these can be had for $49.95 and $59.95... a $10 difference.
That's seems to be in line with the cost of garments that have been treated by the manufacturer.

I recently noticed that ExOfficio clothing has about a $10 difference in its cloths that have been treated v. those that have not.

Exactly. Even the $20 list price difference really isn't bad when you consider that the separate InsectShield treatment is $10 itself and you'll avoid the costs of having to package and ship the item to NC. Its also nice to just buy the pants and be done with it. (BTW - the ExOfficio BugsAway Ziwa are great pants).

[colorado_rob]

True, but are you considering that self-treating lasts for six washings whereas professional treatment lasts for 70 washings? That significantly impacts your cost calculations.Kinda kidding, but 6 washings is about 6 months when hiking the AT, right? I'm not exaggerating much here... My self treated stuff seemed totally effective for my entire hike. My clothes "washing" was really just mostly rinsing out in sinks or streams, probably way gentler on the permethrin in terms of not washing it away. All I know for sure is that this stuff does work well.

[saltysack]

I like the idea but wow is that expensive.
I think I paid what they charge for one garment for an entire bottle of concentrate.

Never really calculated the cost but for about a dollar I can treat everything I own. Kidding of course but not by much.

My search is working I know it's been beat to death about buying permethrin at feed store and diluting. You recall what to buy and the mixture. I'm wanting to treat my clothes for my Everglades paddle.


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[Sandy of PA]

Six weeks with the home treatment, whether you wear them or not. Socks not as long because of how hard you got to scrub them. I could tell when my hat was wearing off, bugs start to circle instead of staying away. Love Insect Shield, Railriders Weatherpants have it.

[Mudsock]

Six washs with the spray-on Sawyers treatment is what they claim. If you buy the concentrate, dilute it appropriately and immerse your clothing for a couple of hours followed by a rinse, why would that not last as long as the commercially treated clothing?

A bottle of concentrate on Amazon is not much more than a bottle of Sawyers spray at REI.

[Wise Old Owl]

Am I missing something here? Just buy what you need on Amazon, appears cheap enough. For the upper states bright white also appears to slow down the mosquito's.

Oh and Mudsock if people get your recommendation at the wrong dilution they are going to have a skin itch that lasts for a month that won't go away. Folks its Chemicals and I do not recommend soaking it, from experience. Sawyers is strong enough as an outer spray on layer, you may still itch, if you sweat into the clothing that it is applied.

Don't forget Deep Woods Off hasn't killed anyone or any insect, or caused a rash that keeps on giving, and works.

[Mudsock]

Getting the dilution slightly wrong won't cause anyone a problem. Actually, permethrin is the cure for itching.

Permethrin is used on babies older than 2 months to treat scabies at ten times the concentration recommended for clothing. With babies, it is applied for more than ten hours - directly on the skin. http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-4834/elimite+topical/details

We are adults here, some of us are past that going down the other side. We should be able to figure out the right dilution procedure.

[Wise Old Owl]

Again Mudsock - Please consider this, unless you are in the industry, people make huge mistakes all the time when trying to solve issues. There is good advice and bad here on the internet. It is easy for the layperson to get stuff wrong, as I see a thousand + possible clients each year. I cant tell you how many times an average person attempts to solve a bedbug problem with dryer sheets, or alcohol spray, then calls me many months later when the internet "learning" experiences fails. Most do not read the label or the instructions and wing it. That's why we have Doctors and Pharmacists and Scabicides used to treat human scabies are available only with a doctor’s prescription. No “over-the-counter” (non-prescription) products have been tested and approved by the EPA to treat scabies.


I learned the hard way about permethrin both spray and soak. - again from first hand experience.

[PAFranklin]

My search is working I know it's been beat to death about buying permethrin at feed store and diluting. You recall what to buy and the mixture. I'm wanting to treat my clothes for my Everglades paddle.


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You can buy it at Tractor Supply. They have several different strengths. I buy the one that is cheapest for a given strength then dilute as needed to match Sawyers. I don't recall the Sawyers dilution off hand but I save their spray bottles to mix it so I just calculate at mixing time.

[Odd Man Out]

With regard to washing your treated clothes, the Sawyer web site states that:

"Sweating and exposure to water does not significantly deteriorate the application. It is primarily the agitation of a washing machine which deteriorates the permethrin application as it knocks the molecules loose from the fabric. For best results Sawyer recommends hand washing and air drying. When using a conventional washer and dryer, use the gentle wash and dry cycles. Loss due to the dryer is limited compared to the detergent and washer agitation. Dry cleaning removes the permethrin from the fabric."

[Wise Old Owl]

With regard to washing your treated clothes, the Sawyer web site states that:

"Sweating and exposure to water does not significantly deteriorate the application. It is primarily the agitation of a washing machine which deteriorates the permethrin application as it knocks the molecules loose from the fabric. For best results Sawyer recommends hand washing and air drying. When using a conventional washer and dryer, use the gentle wash and dry cycles. Loss due to the dryer is limited compared to the detergent and washer agitation. Dry cleaning removes the permethrin from the fabric."

Won't be the first time one of my posts get misunderstood as much as I try to be as clear as possible I can see from your post I failed....

Here is what I meant by my above statement. Lets say you get a favorite shirt. you decide to treat it with a Sawyer spray or a soak. You step outside on a sunny day and lay the shirt in the sun and proceed to spray it. on the outer layer.... you wait a while for it to dry and then decide to really spray the shirt again to get a good layer of product, again on the outer surface of the fabric.

A couple of days later you put that dry shirt on and toss your backpack on and head for the back country.... hours later into your hike you sweat into the fabric... Cotton or dri-fit polyester (it doesn't matter) by capillary action the now "wet" again chemical can and will end up inside the pores of your back. You will continue to itch for two to three weeks. It takes that long for the product to be moved into your urine. Please do not treat your undergarments.... no I only did outer shirts, pants and the back of the hammock....

[Time Zone]

Just a follow-up - I'm trying to learn about this, esp. w/r/t cats, and made a few calls today.
According to the people at Insect Shield, it's safe for cats to be around their professional treated clothing, and re-wetting it will not activate the dangerous liquid form of permethrin. It's also said to be safe to put in a washing machine with, say, a blanket or towel the cat sleeps on. Frankly I wouldn't take that chance, but at least it's probably OK to use the same washing machine (at different times).

I note that Insect Shield says that their process is unsuitable for items that are water resistant, dry-clean only, line dry, or "do not tumble dry". This makes me suspect that dryer heat is a factor in binding the molecules of permethrin to the fabric. It may also relate to why a DIY home treatment method (soaking and line drying) may only last up to 6 washings (sawyer's website says that). The person at insect shield did state that she believed the permethrin molecules with home treatment aren't as tightly bound to the fabric (again, perhaps b/c of line drying?) and thus home-treated clothing may NOT be safe for cats to be around, particularly if re-wetted or washed together. It does kind of make you wonder, what would the efficacy be if you did a DIY soak at home and used your clothes dryer ... would it last longer? But that's against the instructions, supposedly.

Regarding petroleum distillates, I noticed that the Gordon's brand of 10% permethrin liquid (available at TSC) did state that it had petroleum distillates in it. I believe Rain Man said in another thread that when diluted it does not really smell. I called Sawyer and they confirmed that their product does NOT have petroleum distillates. FWIW.

I think I may try having this insect shield treatment done someday, but I'd probably only spend it on newer clothes that I would expect to last much longer, not some of my old worn favorites which may not be around much longer anyway. The DIY soak may be good for a bugnet or hammock, as those things wouldn't be suitable for a hot dryer anyway. Does the DIY soak really wear off in 6 weeks regardless of use or washings?

[Time Zone]

OK, now I'm puzzled. Despite Sawyer rep's claim that their stuff does not have petroleum distillates in it, their MSDS does say it has mineral spirits (<10%) ... and a little googling reveals that mineral spirits are petroleum based! Isn't that a contradiction?

[Snowleopard]

Exposure to oxygen also reduces the length of time the permethrin is good. When you're not hiking keeping clothes in an air tight bag would make the permethrin last longer (I don't bother doing this).

From other threads on WB, some of the more concentrated permethrin solutions have an unpleasant odor even when diluted; these are not intended for human use, so it's hard to say if the other ingredients in the solution are safe for humans.

Don't forget to treat shoes and the exposed parts of socks; recent research has shown this is helps a lot for ticks.

[Time Zone]

From other threads on WB, some of the more concentrated permethrin solutions have an unpleasant odor even when diluted; these are not intended for human use, so it's hard to say if the other ingredients in the solution are safe for humans.


I wonder if Sawyer has a "use patent" regarding their spray ... i.e., if their stuff really does contain petroleum distillates (due to mineral spirits), maybe it is the same stuff, and maybe no one else can label for that use because of the use patent.

OTOH that doesn't explain why some people say it d/n smell but other similarly diluted permethrin solutions do. (though IIRC rain man said that Gordon's did not, and Gordon's is available at TSC). Perhaps only the ones that have more than permethrin as active ingredient smell. I suppose I'll have to test things out.

[perrito]

Exposure to oxygen also reduces the length of time the permethrin is good. When you're not hiking keeping clothes in an air tight bag would make the permethrin last longer (I don't bother doing this).
I've never heard this. Where did you hear this?

[CJOttawa]

There was a post on SectionHiker you should read:

http://sectionhiker.com/treating-your-clothes-with-permethrin/

One of the comments give guidance on how to apply Permethrin at home so it is permanent:


dougbMay 29, 2011 at 11:04 pm #

You can get 10% permethrin and dilute it. It's sold by duravet and is safe for use on animals so that's the brand I use. Dilute 12-1 (to .83%)and soak your clothing in it for at least 3 hours and it's essentially permanent. It's the same method used by the U.S. Army for treating uniforms and it's a lot cheaper than the sawyer method. you can also spray it on, just make sure the garments or tent or mosquito nets or whatever are throroughly wet and put them in a plastic bag afterwards to make sure they stay wet for several hours. Then air dry. Army testing found this method lasts for at least 50 washings.

[Wise Old Owl]

Exposure to oxygen also reduces the length of time the permethrin is good. When you're not hiking keeping clothes in an air tight bag would make the permethrin last longer (I don't bother doing this).

From other threads on WB, some of the more concentrated permethrin solutions have an unpleasant odor even when diluted; these are not intended for human use, so it's hard to say if the other ingredients in the solution are safe for humans.

Don't forget to treat shoes and the exposed parts of socks; recent research has shown this is helps a lot for ticks.
I am struggling with your statement - in the bottle Permethrin lasts ten
years. Permethrin breaks down quickly in the environment. The vapor phase reacts with sunlight to degrade the chemical within a few hours. If released to soil, permethrin is expected to have no mobility. Some will be broken down quickly as a vapor, while the remaining chemical will be absorbed by the soil and biodegraded in less than four weeks. If released into moving water, permethrin is expected to absorb to suspended solids and sediments. Degradation would occur within a few days.

Could you source your information... it would help.

https://sawyer.com/sawyer-u/faqs/insect-repellents/

[Time Zone]

Just a nitpick, but isn't it the case that a dilution of 12 to 1 means 12 parts to 1 part? Thus there would be 13 parts in all, and that a 12 to 1 dilution results in 1/13th concentration? If you start with a 10% solution that gives 1/13 * (10%) = 0.77%, approximately. The 0.83% is what you would get with an 11 to 1 dilution,

[perrito]

Just a nitpick, but isn't it the case that a dilution of 12 to 1 means 12 parts to 1 part? Thus there would be 13 parts in all, and that a 12 to 1 dilution results in 1/13th concentration? If you start with a 10% solution that gives 1/13 * (10%) = 0.77%, approximately. The 0.83% is what you would get with an 11 to 1 dilution,
Yes, absolutely correct. That's why you should dilute a 10% permethrin solution by 19:1 to get a 0.5% mixture.

[jeffmeh]

I have used the Martin's 10% permethrin, diluted 1 to 11.5, to yield a 0.8% solution, with the soaking method. That was the US military protocol, afaik. Works very well with no ill effects, even with some hikers with extremely sensitive skin. While I believe this stuff to be pretty harmless when dry, YMMV.