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View Full Version : AT Hiker rescued today near Albert Mountain



oldwetherman
01-23-2016, 18:48
http://wspa.com/2016/01/23/hiker-rescued-from-appalachian-trail-in-macon-co/

Puppy
01-23-2016, 19:57
http://www.wlos.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/Hiker-Rescue-on-the-AT-During-Winter-Storm-Jonas-251627.shtml#.VqQS45orLIU

MuddyWaters
01-23-2016, 19:59
There was ample warning of this storm.

Slo-go'en
01-23-2016, 20:14
Experienced and well prepared? Bull.

MuddyWaters
01-23-2016, 20:21
Experienced and well prepared? Bull.

With a decent winter bag, and a couple days food, I think a shelter would be fairly liveable for say, a week or so. Many have tarp you can tie across opening in winter.

Lone Wolf
01-23-2016, 20:22
29 years ago, april 4th, a few of us were at standing indian shelter. 2 foot of snow fell overnite. we hung tough. cell phones make wussies out of hikers

The Cleaner
01-23-2016, 20:30
The 1st rescue of this season.I'm sure that the list will get longer.

Sarcasm the elf
01-23-2016, 20:34
29 years ago, april 4th, a few of us were at standing indian shelter. 2 foot of snow fell overnite. we hung tough. cell phones make wussies out of hikers

Either I'm losing it or you're making a lot of sense.

mtntopper
01-23-2016, 20:37
The way I read it he was lost and not in a shelter.

Puddlefish
01-23-2016, 20:55
Compass, map, GPS, GPS coordinates of nearest shelter? Ignoring the forecast to begin with. Makes you wonder just how much experience and preparation he really had.

jefals
01-23-2016, 21:01
well, you gotta remember he's 21 years old. there's probably more than a few of us out here lucky to have survived some of the things we did at that age.

rafe
01-23-2016, 21:06
IIRC, Albert Mtn. is also where Bryson and Katz encounter a blizzard in A Walk In The Woods.

Puddlefish
01-23-2016, 21:13
well, you gotta remember he's 21 years old. there's probably more than a few of us out here lucky to have survived some of the things we did at that age.

I plead the 5th.

Slo-go'en
01-23-2016, 23:47
The way I read it he was lost and not in a shelter.

And why was he lost and not in a shelter? Because he pushed on in a snow storm which he should have waited out.

12trysomething
01-24-2016, 00:01
I'm am glad everyone is safe.

glenlawson
01-24-2016, 00:03
29 years ago, april 4th, a few of us were at standing indian shelter. 2 foot of snow fell overnite. we hung tough. cell phones make wussies out of hikers

I have a very similar story but a couple of years earlier. Mine was April, 1983. I left Plumorchard Gap shelter headed north and as I could see the mountains in the distance, there was snow. I so excited. It was going to be cool telling people that I saw snow in the distance in April. I kept walking. There was snow on the ground. I thought, this is so cool. There is snow on the ground in April. By the time I got to Muskrat Creek, the snow was over a foot deep and I had gotten over it being cool. There was another guy in the shelter, but it was just the two of us that night. While I was fixing my dinner, I noticed my hands getting cold awfully fast and when I looked at my little zipper pull thermometer, it read -10 degrees.

Fortunately, I had a 20 degree REI mummy bag and one of those new Thermarest pads. I put on all of my warm clothes including a wool balaclava, and put my butane stove and my water bottles in my sleeping bag and slept through the night. The next morning my boots were frozen to the shelter floor. I had to kick them to get them l loose. The other guy and I hiked together for a little while, but it was cold and the snow was deep so at a point he turned toward the Standing Indian campground to hike out to his truck. He offered me a ride out, but I told him my parents were going to meet me the next Saturday at the NOC, so I thought I'd just keep going. I was 17 at the time and I've often wondered if he ever thought about pushing a little harder for me to leave the trail.

I just thought it was a little cold weather. I had planned on some kind of warm spring-time hiking, but I also prepared for cold weather. I had a set of Helly Hansen polypro, woolrich wool pants, wool shirt, wool sweater, army wool glove liners, wool balaclava and a coated nylon rainsuit. I was kind of glad it was cold because I didn't have to carry all that in my pack.

I was lucky too though. Most of the snow fell ahead of me and during the night. Plumorchard to Muskrat creek is not that technical, the trail is wide and well marked. By the time I got to Albert Mountain, the sky had cleared, but the snow had not. It was my first trip over Albert Mtn and I was so busy looking for blazes that I never noticed that there was a fire tower there.

This serves as a reminder to me that if I can't see, just stop moving. Because if I get lost, I'm not likely to get unlost without help. I have to say this, I'm really glad I was not on the trail in 1993. I would like to hear from any others who were on the trail those snowy Aprils in the 80's.

Lone Wolf
01-24-2016, 07:04
march of 93 was much worse than this little storm that just went through

peakbagger
01-24-2016, 08:29
What folks underestimate is that moving through unpacked snow is major work. Its easy to get soaked through a combination of perspiration and melting snow. Contrary to the claims that synthetics keep you warm even when wet, you still get cold with wet synthetics on. The major plus is the don't retain water so they will dry out quicker than other fibers. Folk are far better off hunkering down but if its major snowfall it may be days before the conditions really get better. As long as you have snow on your clothes, you are losing lots of body heat to melt that snow.

The other fallacy is that even with typical mountaineering snowshoes unless you are in group its a lot of work and progress is slow. Generally the method if for a groups to rotate the lead every so often, the leader breaks trail for some period of time and then drops back to the end of the group and lets the next hiker lead until the group rotates through. Even with the right gear and groups size, 1 MPH is considered good. If there is only one or two folks it doesn't work that well and progress is slower. Snowshoes are a big advantage once the snow has packed a bit as a hiker can frequently hike up on top of the snow but generally this requires a couple of days after the storm. The major plus is that once a party with snowshoes has broken trail, it rapidly becomes a sidewalk for those following. Trails created by folks without snowshoes are better than nothing but not by much. It take multiple parties to eventually get passable path. There are powder snowshoes that work a lot better than mountaineering snowshoes but few folks are willing to carry them as they are huge, typically 30" long.

rafe
01-24-2016, 08:42
There are many conditions where even snow shoes aren't much help.

rocketsocks
01-24-2016, 09:51
march of 93 was much worse than this little storm that just went through
Yup, got almost three feet here on that one, NY state got 54" if I remember it right.

rocketsocks
01-24-2016, 09:54
well, you gotta remember he's 21 years old. there's probably more than a few of us out here lucky to have survived some of the things we did at that age.
Guilty as charged, forgot about the "piss wiskkers" factor, thanks for the reminder.

squeezebox
01-24-2016, 11:43
Don't forget the point when someone calls for rescue they put the rescue team in danger as well.

WingedMonkey
01-24-2016, 12:23
Don't forget the point when someone calls for rescue they put the rescue team in danger as well.

Didn't you attempt to call for rescue because you fell down and "hurt" your shoulder? In good weather?

Traveler
01-24-2016, 14:00
Compass, map, GPS, GPS coordinates of nearest shelter? Ignoring the forecast to begin with. Makes you wonder just how much experience and preparation he really had.

I could not see in either article when the boy started the hike. If he had been on the trail for several days, he may not have heard the warnings and figured the snow that was falling would abate soon.

I'm certainly not defending his actions, but the presumption that he was forewarned isn't mentioned from what I have seen, if he was aware of a pending coastal storm, at that age would many recognize a 50 year event having never been in one? As the snow accumulated on the ground and everything started to look like "trail", coupled with the snow intensity not slowing but increasing, he should have gone to ground. At 21 its hard to have the level of experience that would tell you that. If he was experienced as the article maintains, his experience is likely in warmer months for the most part with perhaps some light winter jaunts under his belt. This is, however a great reminder that winter hiking is very different than summer for a lot of reasons. One of the biggest differences is the speed of disorientation due to snow conditions that can develop and affect the most experienced people, even on trails they are very familiar with.

Its a good cautionary tale here really. Glad he got out alive, a lot of people making that mistake don't.

bemental
01-24-2016, 14:21
I could not see in either article when the boy started the hike. If he had been on the trail for several days, he may not have heard the warnings and figured the snow that was falling would abate soon.

I'm certainly not defending his actions, but the presumption that he was forewarned isn't mentioned from what I have seen, if he was aware of a pending coastal storm, at that age would many recognize a 50 year event having never been in one? As the snow accumulated on the ground and everything started to look like "trail", coupled with the snow intensity not slowing but increasing, he should have gone to ground. At 21 its hard to have the level of experience that would tell you that. If he was experienced as the article maintains, his experience is likely in warmer months for the most part with perhaps some light winter jaunts under his belt. This is, however a great reminder that winter hiking is very different than summer for a lot of reasons. One of the biggest differences is the speed of disorientation due to snow conditions that can develop and affect the most experienced people, even on trails they are very familiar with.

Its a good cautionary tale here really. Glad he got out alive, a lot of people making that mistake don't.

Solid perspective - funny no one thought about him not even knowing about the storm.

rafe
01-24-2016, 14:31
Trouble is, this storm was predicted a week out.

Puddlefish
01-24-2016, 14:42
Eh, failing to check the weather or ignoring the forecast, it still amounts to being woefully inexperienced or unprepared. It's 2016, weather forecasts are fairly amazing these days, and very easy to access from a variety of sources.

I do give him credit for making the call, and not making a bad situation worse.

Tipi Walter
01-24-2016, 14:46
It's the Curse of the Quick Phone Rescue.

And I hate it when they say "hiker"---which is it, dayhiker or backpacker? No righteous backpacker would dial up 911 without at least spending 7 days in place in hunker mode in his tent and THEN consider using his phone for rescue. It's just bad form and ruins your reputation as an "outdoorsman".

If he was a dayhiker, well, most dayhikers are clueless anyway and have rescue units on standby and on speed dial. Dayhikers tightly clutch their car keys from the start of a hike to the end with a restaurant meal the main goal of the entire Done In A Day hike, so don't expect any amount of digging deep or digging in and sitting put.

We should always remember Steve Frazier who started a trip in Yosemite in October 2008 and hiked in 20 miles to a campsite and set up his tent. A sudden surprise snowstorm blew in two feet of snow and he couldn't get out without getting lost. What did he do? He pulled a Frazier: He hunkered in and made 2 days of food last 12 until rescue.

Did he dial up 911 immediately and panic? Nope. Did he wander off in a daze and freeze to death in a snowbank? Nope. Did he strip naked and run screaming from camp? Nope.

The boy on Albert Mt needed to pull a Frazier.

Puddlefish
01-24-2016, 14:51
It's the Curse of the Quick Phone Rescue.

And I hate it when they say "hiker"---which is it, dayhiker or backpacker? No righteous backpacker would dial up 911 without at least spending 7 days in place in hunker mode in his tent and THEN consider using his phone for rescue. It's just bad form and ruins your reputation as an "outdoorsman".

If he was a dayhiker, well, most dayhikers are clueless anyway and have rescue units on standby and on speed dial. Dayhikers tightly clutch their car keys from the start of a hike to the end with a restaurant meal the main goal of the entire Done In A Day hike, so don't expect any amount of digging deep or digging in and sitting put.

We should always remember Steve Frazier who started a trip in Yosemite in October 2008 and hiked in 20 miles to a campsite and set up his tent. A sudden surprise snowstorm blew in two feet of snow and he couldn't get out without getting lost. What did he do? He pulled a Frazier: He hunkered in and made 2 days of food last 12 until rescue.

Did he dial up 911 immediately and panic? Nope. Did he wander off in a daze and freeze to death in a snowbank? Nope. Did he strip naked and run screaming from camp? Nope.

The boy on Albert Mt needed to pull a Frazier.

I read your most recent post, and I knew you'd mention the weather, the storm, and that you'd be entirely prepared for it. I wasn't disappointed. I'm going to have a WWTWD T shirt made.

Tipi Walter
01-24-2016, 14:57
I read your most recent post, and I knew you'd mention the weather, the storm, and that you'd be entirely prepared for it. I wasn't disappointed. I'm going to have a WWTWD T shirt made.

While I did see some deep cold temps around 5F and 0F, I did not see any deep snow like in years past. It's weird, but having no snow at 0F on an open bald at 5,000 feet seems much colder than having 2 feet of snow on the same mountain at 0F. The snow acts as an insulating layer when you're holed up in a tent for several days. It also blocks the wind.

But moving thru 2 feet of snow is very difficult in the Southeast mountains where I backpack. We do not carry snowshoes, and they wouldn't help anyway when trying to move thru the collapsed green tunnel trails we hike. Then it becomes a belly crawl where a mile takes 3 hours.

It's comical to read AT thruhikers starting out on January 1 and immediately bailing into towns and hostels when temps dip to 10F or when snow levels get high. They are not programmed to sit on a ridge in 2 feet of snow and wait for it to melt.

In-tent hunkering is the only option with deep snow in my opinion, and NOT bailing to the closest town. Even the Blizzard of '93 snow levels went away after about 7 days---so just hunker in and wait it out. And wave off those blasted rescue helicopters!!

egilbe
01-24-2016, 15:32
Funny, here in the NE we are hoping for more snow so we can get the snowshoes and XC skis out because its easier hiking when all the roots and rocks are filled in and the ground is flat and smooth. It is harder walking in fresh snow in snowshoes, though. Give it a day or two and it settles a bit and the snowshoes float over the snow.

MuddyWaters
01-24-2016, 16:22
No righteous backpacker would dial up 911 without at least spending 7 days in place in hunker mode in his tent and THEN consider using his phone for rescue. It's just bad form and ruins your reputation as an "outdoorsman".



Todays hikers will bail if cant get facebook.

Im glad the young man is OK. He did the right thing by calling for help. I dont know the details obviously, and Im not assuming anything here.

But...I also believe people that flagrantly get themselves into trouble should be charged recovery expenses. Like NH does now. Its the only way to get some people to use common sense with their electronic lifelines.

In the days before phones and SPOTs, they didnt need to make many rescues, and the backwoods wasnt littered with bones either. These people that get into predictaments would just end up dead, so they were more careful not to do that. Or, darwins theory took care of things.

BillyGr
01-24-2016, 17:52
Yup, got almost three feet here on that one, NY state got 54" if I remember it right.

Is that the famous Letterman blizzard? The one where he did a show sans audience due to the storm. If so, I'm also thinking that was one of the ones where it tapered off dramatically as you went north into the state (pretty much the same as this one, where Albany got a whopping 0" - in fact if you look at some of the snow depth maps Albany is now the "donut hole" of snowlessness).

rocketsocks
01-24-2016, 20:52
Is that the famous Letterman blizzard? The one where he did a show sans audience due to the storm. If so, I'm also thinking that was one of the ones where it tapered off dramatically as you went north into the state (pretty much the same as this one, where Albany got a whopping 0" - in fact if you look at some of the snow depth maps Albany is now the "donut hole" of snowlessness).not exactly sure...either 93'or 96' of that I'm certain.

RockDoc
01-24-2016, 23:38
Anymore we take a small handitalkie with NOAA weather radio if our hike is more than a week long. Excellent detailed forecasts all through the USA. Working with the weather is of first importance for a responsible hiker IMO.

Sarcasm the elf
01-24-2016, 23:45
not exactly sure...either 93'or 96' of that I'm certain.

I dont' recall a serious snowfall in '93, did the worst of it miss Connecticut? I know that '96 was year we had the 20'' plus snowfall that ended with a mini-ice storm on top of the snow. That shut the state down for several days and allowed me to build my first and only snow shelter (admittedly in my yard, but it was fun)

MuddyWaters
01-25-2016, 02:43
I dont' recall a serious snowfall in '93, did the worst of it miss Connecticut? I know that '96 was year we had the 20'' plus snowfall that ended with a mini-ice storm on top of the snow. That shut the state down for several days and allowed me to build my first and only snow shelter (admittedly in my yard, but it was fun)

In the blizzard of 93 , Mt. Leconte in GSMNP got 69" of snow. It was only the storm of the century.

http://images.accesswdun.com/uploads/articles/2013/3/259252/blizzard1993b_p3.jpg

cmoulder
01-25-2016, 08:04
I lived in Manhattan at the time, and indeed that was one for the record books (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century).

The unusual thing about that one was that, yes, we got around 3-4 feet of it, but that very little of what fell was actually snow. It was almost all sleet and ice pellets which were super-heavy and could not be shoveled. It was like concrete. I had to hack my car out with an ice axe. Regular snow plows could barely shove the stuff aside and eventually front-end loaders and dump trucks had to be used to clear the streets.

Glad not to be in the woods then!

Offshore
01-25-2016, 08:27
It's the Curse of the Quick Phone Rescue.

More like the Curse of the Clueless Internet Message Board Response wherein replies flood in from those that weren't there and didn't know the particulars of the situation. These usually take the form of pontificating attacks on the victim for not, at the age of 21, having their own 30+ year encyclopedic knowledge of all things outdoors or of the ever-popular "why back in my day..." Some of these even come from mere day hikers who may dare to frequent these pages...

cmoulder
01-25-2016, 08:44
More like the Curse of the Clueless Internet Message Board Response wherein a replies flood in from those that weren't there and didn't know the particulars of the situation. These usually take the form of pontificating attacks on the victim for not, at the age of 21, having their own 30+ year encyclopedic knowledge of all things outdoors or of the ever-popular "why back in my day..." Some of these even come from mere day hikers who may dare to frequents these pages...

These so-called "news" snippets provide so little information that no assumptions or conclusions can be made.

Offshore
01-25-2016, 09:07
These so-called "news" snippets provide so little information that no assumptions or conclusions can be made.

Probably enough detail for a general interest news story. It's really more of a human interest with happy ending story than an incident report. I wouldn't expect more details unless it was in a trade or special interest outlet. My issue is with all the armchair quarterbacks filling in the detail from their own imaginations and then getting the knives out. The kid may well have been an idiot, but then again, maybe not.

Puddlefish
01-25-2016, 09:09
More like the Curse of the Clueless Internet Message Board Response wherein replies flood in from those that weren't there and didn't know the particulars of the situation. These usually take the form of pontificating attacks on the victim for not, at the age of 21, having their own 30+ year encyclopedic knowledge of all things outdoors or of the ever-popular "why back in my day..." Some of these even come from mere day hikers who may dare to frequents these pages...

In my case, I was questioning the author of the news article for their claim that the victim was experienced and prepared. It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it.

When you have thirty extra years of experience, it's easy to get a chuckle out of someone calling a kid experienced. There are people on these boards with decades more experience than I have, and those people are welcome to get a chuckle out of a young punk like me, calling someone younger, less experienced.

colorado_rob
01-25-2016, 09:15
More like the Curse of the Clueless Internet Message Board Response wherein replies flood in from those that weren't there and didn't know the particulars of the situation. These usually take the form of pontificating attacks on the victim for not, at the age of 21, having their own 30+ year encyclopedic knowledge of all things outdoors or of the ever-popular "why back in my day..." Some of these even come from mere day hikers who may dare to frequent these pages...Hear hear! (or is it here here! ???) In any case, well said.

full conditions
01-25-2016, 09:46
29 years ago, april 4th, a few of us were at standing indian shelter. 2 foot of snow fell overnite. we hung tough. cell phones make wussies out of hikers
Well, one advantage at least with these kind of situations .... . it gives a few old timers a chance to thump their chests and remind everyone about how much tougher they were than these weak-kneed whimps today. Priceless.

Puddlefish
01-25-2016, 10:03
Well, one advantage at least with these kind of situations .... . it gives a few old timers a chance to thump their chests and remind everyone about how much tougher they were than these weak-kneed whimps today. Priceless.

Let's not forget it gives the new generation the option to complain about and mock the older generation for doing what older generations tend to do. It's a tale as old as time.

Offshore
01-25-2016, 10:13
Let's not forget it gives the new generation the option to complain about and mock the older generation for doing what older generations tend to do. It's a tale as old as time.

I'm a part of the older generation that agrees with the new generation who are complaining about the older generation. Oh no, I've confused myself now...

Puddlefish
01-25-2016, 10:24
I'm a part of the older generation that agrees with the new generation who are complaining about the older generation. Oh no, I've confused myself now...

Heh heh. It's all good, we all love the sound of our own voices. We complain even as we reminisce. It's the circle of life.

turtle fast
01-25-2016, 11:45
Lest we forget it's these old timers where the younger generation can learn a thing or two from their past experiences. I see their advocy for common sense and to not rely too heavily on the electronic devices to be refreshing....especially with all the cumulative hiker funk around here.

Tipi Walter
01-25-2016, 11:47
In the blizzard of 93 , Mt. Leconte in GSMNP got 69" of snow. It was only the storm of the century.

http://images.accesswdun.com/uploads/articles/2013/3/259252/blizzard1993b_p3.jpg

Thanks for sharing this cool map. I was in Boone NC and right smack dab in the center of that blue wedge. We got 36 inches of snow in Watauga County and I remember many of the particulars as I was living in a 3,500 foot ridgetop tipi 10 miles west of Boone in a little place called Sugar Grove, NC.

I kept a journal of the storm as I sat in my woodheated Tipi---

http://tipiwalter.blogspot.com/2009/01/bizzard-of-93.html


Well, one advantage at least with these kind of situations .... . it gives a few old timers a chance to thump their chests and remind everyone about how much tougher they were than these weak-kneed whimps today. Priceless.

There have been several rescues in the last several years in the Southeast mountains which seem to validate "a few old timers" amazement and disgust. See---

http://www.smokymountainnews.com/news/item/12325-a-winter-rescue-rangers-trek-into-frigid-snowy-darkness-to-save-hikers

These boys were on Day 1 of a 10 day trek and had summer sleeping bags and a propane torch. Can't make this stuff up.

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2014/01/04/rangers-rescue-stranded-hikers-in-smokies-/4313377/

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2014/02/07/park-spent-8300-on-smokies-rescue/5297951/

http://appalachiantrail.com/20140104/unprepared-appalachian-trail-hikers-lost-found/

I like the quote: "Wearing cotton clothing but no cold weather gear." Cost the park service $8,300 for rescue.

And please, for a fun read, pour over this Whiteblaze Thread---

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/100614-3-Hikers-Rescued-from-Smokey-Mountains

GoldenBear
01-25-2016, 12:28
> Hear hear! (or is it here here! ???)

The former.
The phrase began in the English* House of Commons in the 1600s, and was indicative of a member wanting others to listen to the speaker, because what the speaker was saying was so correct.

To this day, the U.S. Supreme Court (somewhat) mimics this phrase, using the Latin phrase "Oyez, oyez, oyez" ("Listen, listen, listen") each time the justices walk into the court.
http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/procedures.aspx


* Yes, it was only England at the time. The addition of Scotland (making it Great Britain) and Northern Ireland (making it the United Kingdom) came later.

colorado_rob
01-25-2016, 12:47
In the blizzard of 93 , Mt. Leconte in GSMNP got 69" of snow. It was only the storm of the century.

http://images.accesswdun.com/uploads/articles/2013/3/259252/blizzard1993b_p3.jpgI guess it's all relative, but we get huge dumps seemingly every 10 years or so.

One of my most vivid memories was a seven-footer (yes, that's 84 inches, plus or minus) we got in 2003, in the foothills above Denver (Denver area got about 3-4 feet, depending)

http://rense.com/general35/storm.htm

(7 feet was the worst since 1913, but we get regular 3-4 footers probably about every 10 years)

I was house-bound for that 7-footer for one full day with 5 teenagers (my own two, plus their visiting friends that were stuck at our house....). Long story short, I managed to survive with them for about a day, then I just had to leave. My workplace was shutdown, but I could get in and do actual work, so I snowshoed 2.5 miles to work. took me over two hours, IIRC.

Venchka
01-25-2016, 13:01
Geeze, Louise! Had the 3 hikers sans tent & winter gear merely turned around before dark they would have been at the Fontana Hilton drinking hot chocolate before things got too serious.
I'm still not convinced that very many people know much, if anything, about the effects of altitude on temperature & wind speed. One of the men in the story said that they had checked the weather forecast as they left home in S.C. No mention of the location for that forecast. No mention of checking the forecast once they reached Fontana Dam. Isn't there a ranger station at Fontana Dam? I have been queried about my gear by rangers before. Surely anyone leaving Fontana Dam on January 1 and heading up mountain should have their gear reviewed by competent rangers. I guess this group managed to slip through a few cracks.
Let us not forget the group of young women who "were surrounded by snow and couldn't find water." They were also rescued safely.
Be dry. Be warm. Be safe.

Wayne

PAFranklin
01-25-2016, 13:47
I lived in Manhattan at the time, and indeed that was one for the record books (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Storm_of_the_Century).

The unusual thing about that one was that, yes, we got around 3-4 feet of it, but that very little of what fell was actually snow. It was almost all sleet and ice pellets which were super-heavy and could not be shoveled. It was like concrete. I had to hack my car out with an ice axe. Regular snow plows could barely shove the stuff aside and eventually front-end loaders and dump trucks had to be used to clear the streets.

Glad not to be in the woods then!

Yes I remember that one. I used my garden tiller to break up the ice in my driveway.

I can remember about half a dozen snow storms of the century in my area and a couple 100 years floods on the Delaware. And I'm not that old.

I also remember a smaller storm in 89 when a couple of us were winter backpacking on the AT in Virginia where we got 18 inches. There was a short period were it was a complete white out and we couldn't see more than about 15 feet. We were well equipped so just set up the tent and hunkered down till the next morning.

4eyedbuzzard
01-25-2016, 14:20
Eh, failing to check the weather or ignoring the forecast, it still amounts to being woefully inexperienced or unprepared. It's 2016, weather forecasts are fairly amazing these days, and very easy to access from a variety of sources.

I do give him credit for making the call, and not making a bad situation worse.


These so-called "news" snippets provide so little information that no assumptions or conclusions can be made.


Probably enough detail for a general interest news story. It's really more of a human interest with happy ending story than an incident report. I wouldn't expect more details unless it was in a trade or special interest outlet. My issue is with all the armchair quarterbacks filling in the detail from their own imaginations and then getting the knives out. The kid may well have been an idiot, but then again, maybe not.


In my case, I was questioning the author of the news article for their claim that the victim was experienced and prepared. It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it.

When you have thirty extra years of experience, it's easy to get a chuckle out of someone calling a kid experienced. There are people on these boards with decades more experience than I have, and those people are welcome to get a chuckle out of a young punk like me, calling someone younger, less experienced.


Hear hear! (or is it here here! ???) In any case, well said.


Lest we forget it's these old timers where the younger generation can learn a thing or two from their past experiences. I see their advocy for common sense and to not rely too heavily on the electronic devices to be refreshing....especially with all the cumulative hiker funk around here.The good part - he made the call before getting into deeper sh-- er, snow. And apparently he had enough gear and enough experience that his behavior resulted in being found in good condition, basically with a bruised ego and no more. We don't know the details of exactly how he became disoriented/lost, and whether he was on the end of a multiday hike, the beginning, or on a day hike, or... (goes to weather/forecast awareness). And maybe he even set out to practice survival/ winter skills. But having been in the woods in a snowstorm, disorientation can happen pretty easily when visibility deteriorates. He probably had a touch of a panic/anxiety attack going as well at that point.

Hopefully he learned a valuable lesson and will grow up to be a crusty old curmudgeon - and scoff at the foolishness of young hikers someday.

LittleRock
01-25-2016, 15:52
I just read A Walk in the Woods - this is almost exactly the same situation in the same location as Bryson and Katz.

Except Bryson and Katz toughed it out, and honestly, I don't think anyone would call them either "experienced hikers" or "well-prepared".

The one thing they did right, which this guy didn't, was find a place to hunker down before conditions got too bad.

Slo-go'en
01-25-2016, 16:03
I think it's safe to assume this lad is thru hiking. Given his location and time of day when he called for help, he most likely was at the Carter Gap shelter that morning and it was probably already starting to snow when he headed out. He just didn't know how bad the storm was going to get or how difficult that section of trail would be (anyone who has ever climbed Mt Albert would never head that way in a snow storm!).

His mistake was to try and push on when things started to get crazy instead of turning back to the shelter, which probably wasn't all that far behind him. But we all know you never turn around and go back, no matter what...

FlyFishNut
01-25-2016, 16:54
I like reading the comments sections of these articles. In the first link, this person is bashing anyone who backpacks (he uses term Hike) in the winter.
She/he? describes such foolery as without "common sense" and cites her experience as a Girl Scout Troop Leader.

4eyedbuzzard
01-25-2016, 17:26
I like reading the comments sections of these articles. In the first link, this person is bashing anyone who backpacks (he uses term Hike) in the winter.
She/he? describes such foolery as without "common sense" and cites her experience as a Girl Scout Troop Leader.Yeah, I gave her a piece of my mind as well.

FlyFishNut
01-25-2016, 18:50
Yeah, I gave her a piece of my mind as well.

Me too... I tried to order some Thin Mints from her....

jdavis7590
01-25-2016, 19:35
Finally someone said it. I bet he got some experience now, plus the storm mixed with a turned ankle, stomach flue, or critters running off with a bear bag change the game. We don't know. So many here claim to be ultralight hikers but how is this possible with these massive soap boxes you take ever where? Carbon fiber soap boxes maybe? Collapsible?

egilbe
01-25-2016, 19:41
If you're hiking in Winter, you better be prepared to ride out a Winter storm or two. Im fairly certain Tipi Walter is the antithesis of ultralight, or even lightweight.

MuddyWaters
01-25-2016, 20:58
Kid had a working phone, this we know.
Seems remote he didnt know forecast.

Any parent worth the title would panic and besiege their kids phone with texts, even without a smarty phone.

Feral Bill
01-25-2016, 21:53
. So many here claim to be ultralight hikers but how is this possible with these massive soap boxes you take ever where? Carbon fiber soap boxes maybe? Collapsible? No, no, borrowed from other hikers.

rocketsocks
01-25-2016, 22:29
"A mans got to know his limitations" ~Clint Easrwood

egilbe
01-26-2016, 18:55
That girlscout leader is a silly little twit, all puffed up with moral outrage

colorado_rob
01-26-2016, 19:48
"A mans got to know his limitations" ~Clint EasrwoodGoes well with: "Do you feel lucky, punk?"

Cuacoatchoo
01-29-2016, 16:12
Devils advocate, it's easy for us Mid atlantics to get excited about hiking in the snow and dramatically over estimate our snow mileage.

I'm not sure at what point in the storm he was. If 2 feet were already down it seems like he could have snowcaved or igloo'd. If it was early in the storm that could have been tough. I know Va had 50 mph winds and I heard a couple spots in Maryland got up to 70 mph gust. That's some serious windchill and probably pretty terrifying if he had a 3 season tent.

I do recall meeting a lot of Thru hikers in Tn/NC that were only carrying 3 days food at a stretch... Personally that's a little thin for my peace of mind.

But yes after offering his defense, I admittedly always like to think I'm tougher than that when I hear these dork-saved stories.

Malto
01-29-2016, 19:29
Finally someone said it. I bet he got some experience now, plus the storm mixed with a turned ankle, stomach flue, or critters running off with a bear bag change the game. We don't know. So many here claim to be ultralight hikers but how is this possible with these massive soap boxes you take ever where? Carbon fiber soap boxes maybe? Collapsible?

Do you have such insecurities that you have to bash those wascally ultra lighters even though I have see ZERO connection between this hiker/ultra lighters/rescues? I sincerely hope you feel better about yourself given your superiority achieved by the heavier weight you choose to carry. I know many ultralight hikers that would easily have made it through those conditions because they have the experience that more than makes up for the lack of weight.

jdavis7590
01-29-2016, 20:28
Do you have such insecurities that you have to bash those wascally ultra lighters even though I have see ZERO connection between this hiker/ultra lighters/rescues? I sincerely hope you feel better about yourself given your superiority achieved by the heavier weight you choose to carry. I know many ultralight hikers that would easily have made it through those conditions because they have the experience that more than makes up for the lack of weight.
I do.... I do

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