View Full Version : Secluded camp sights
gonegonzo
01-24-2016, 02:15
I'm not anti social but I do enjoy my privacy .
What are the opportunities of venturing off AT 1/4 mile or so to camp at a secluded campsite . Non in particular is at mind . I know the majority camp in and around the shelters and that's OK if need be . But I would rather camp in my own space and avoid the (at times) hoop law that goes along with the shelter scene .
What's the standard so as not to be trespassing ? Are there any opportunities for this ?
Thx ,
Gonzo
Mountain Mike
01-24-2016, 04:06
Most of the trail is on NFS land where you can camp where you want. There are exception such as the Smokies & some of the states. CT & I think NJ? now.
MuddyWaters
01-24-2016, 04:55
I doubt you will go 1/4 mile off the trail without a trail to a camping area.
Technically, you should camp at least 100 ft from the trail and out of sight of it.
Id say 99% of campers use pre-existing campsites that are within 50 ft of trail, in plain view. Most are practically on top of trail.
The problem is generally lack of flat ground. When trail goes over a peak, theres limited flat area on top, and in the saddle of a gap theres limited flat areas. In between theres steep forested hillsides and few flat spots.
The AT corridor isnt that wide everywhere as well. You can end up on private property.
Most people dont want to hike extra distances off the trail for no reason. They complain if a shelter is more than 0.2 off trail. Theres often no reason for it, no view, etc. You will have plenty of solitude if you find campsite far offtrail.
ChefATLTCT
01-24-2016, 06:34
Massachusetts is a state were you are restricted to camping at designated sites only.
Damned hoop laws should be repealed. Hands off my hoops!
peakbagger
01-24-2016, 08:09
Some misinformation in the prior posts. Hard to make blanket statements about camping. The AT may be protected but that level of protection varies widely along the trail. In some places, especially near civilization, the trail is on a public road with no rights to camp on the private properties on either side. In other areas it is strictly a right of way through the woods. It does typically go through large blocks of National Forest Land and National Park Service land where camping is unrestricted but even in those areas there may restrictions. When it traverses state properties the rules are far less reliable and vary state by state.
A place where its definitely dicey is if you plan to have a fire, the best general assumption is that you need to be at an established recognized campsite. In Maine, unless at a established campsite, you need a fire permit for the specific location you plan to kindle a fire, obtaining that permit is just not viable for a thruhiker so effectively you are legally required to stay at campsite. Few folks actually have fires so its not an issue.
The other aspect is the width of the AT corridor, there are desired standards in place on corridor width but many actual right of ways are not as wide. This is especially an issue as you enter and leave developed areas, but even in Maine the trail may not be in the center of the NPS corridor so heading 1/4 of mile in the woods may put you on private property. The NPS who administers the trail generally requires boundary markers between the trail boundary and adjacent private land but this is not necessarily followed when the AT is a right of way in land owned by another public entity. I do boundary maintenance on the AT in Maine and we are told to minimize any clearing on a property boundary so the boundary may not be obvious especially when you are intersecting it at a right angle.
Thus it comes down to if you want to camp away from established campsites you have two choices, do the research up front and follow the law or take you chances and do so called "stealth camping". Folks who can tolerate hammocks generally have the advantage as its far easier to find two appropriate trees then to find a flat spot. This observation starts to fall flat when hiking the ridgelines in parts of VT, NH and Maine. Once you get into the upper elevation spruce/fir forests, the surrounding woods is extremely dense generally and a natural flat spot in the woods is generally not suitable for camping, its either a blowdown, a boulder patch or wet land. Generally you will need to wait until the trail dips down into the hardwoods to find a somewhat open understory.
An observation is that many thru hikers will do what they can to avoid having to go down off the ridge any significant distance to camp unless that's the only option for water. Many of the complaints about hiking the Whites is that most thru hikers don't want to go down off the ridge on the many blue blaze side trails to find open woods as the typical descent to open woods is 1000 feet of vertical elevation and possibly a mile of hiking. All of the AMC huts can be avoided with some planning if you are willing to drop down a side trail although some of the very popular side trails are designated no camping within 1/4 mile so research is required.
Where legal I typically scan for a knob ... Higher ground with possibilities for flattish spots at the top and then explore. More often than not virgin campsites can be found not far off trail as most hikers stick to shelters and obvious campsites. Using virgin sites does come with responsibilities to not create an obvious new site and to leave it as it was when you arrive. The benefit is solitude and far fewer animal encounters. I don't do this all the time or even most of the time but I like to get off the beaten path once in a while.
garlic08
01-24-2016, 09:07
In the southern Appalachians outside the National Parks, I found it generally easy to get a few steps off the trail and be secluded. I never started a fire on the AT, and I generally wouldn't even eat in my campsite--just sleep and move on, no trace left behind. In the dense pine forests in the north it wasn't so easy. Ditto in the densely populated areas of the mid-Atlantic, with lawn mowers and barking dogs nearby.
SteelCut
01-24-2016, 09:23
In many places the AT only gives the illusion of wilderness. It is illuminating to take a look at the AT on Google Maps. Quite often just out of sight or over a knoll you can find Forest service roads, paved roads, farms, or someone's backyard.
To the OP, I would say get a guidebook such as AWOL's that gives the camping restrictions for the various areas that trail passes through. Learn Leave No Trace (LNT) practices and use them when you do camp in legal secluded spots.
Puddlefish
01-24-2016, 10:47
This is why I intend to bring maps, and know where I am on the maps. The last thing I want is to annoy one of the awesome private landowners who allow us access to their property.
Slo-go'en
01-24-2016, 13:02
A 1/4 mile is a LONG way and you best have GPS or a very good sense of direction if you expect to find the AT again. Just getting 100 feet off the trail can be difficult - and get you lost.
As much as possible, the AT follows the height of land along the ridge line. At other times it tacking along the side of the ridge with steep slopes on either side. Going off trail means you'll be on those steep slopes.
Which is why all the suitable tent sites are found with in sight of the trail when there happens to be a fairly level and/or open area. You typically can't see very far into the woods and you can wander around aimlessly for a long time trying finding a suitable place to set up a tent, and then have to clear the area of down tree limbs and rocks first. It can be really hard if your tying to do this at dusk with failing light.
You don't have to hide in the woods to have privacy.
johnnybgood
01-24-2016, 13:02
If you hammock camp there will be plenty of secluded campsites between shelters. Usually I get two trees 20 yds off the trail up a berm out of sight.
Now if your shelter is a tent, good flat isolated spots are harder to find. With regards to secluded campsites in SNP one should grab the three sectional map set and begin highlighting blue blaze trails that spur off the AT.
This map set can be ordered online at the parks website or through local Outfitters.
Many campsites are no more than a mile off the blue blaze trail and some are in fact near a stream .
nsherry61
01-24-2016, 13:32
FWIW: Finding good, reasonably flat, stealth sites, even in steep country, is pretty easy for one person and probably 5x harder for two people. It's pretty easy to find a small one-person sized shelf on the uphill side of a tree or rock. It's a lot more difficult to find room for two people, especially two people in a tent . . . yet one more good reason to use a flat tarp for shelter instead of a shaped tarp or tent.
Plenty of places off the beaten AT tread to get privacy 1/4 mile or less. Further into spring once the deciduous trees leaf out the less further you have to go. Most often I'd say you don't even need to go a 1/4 mile off the beaten tread to get privacy. I find much greater solitude by heading up maybe as little as 50 ft in elevation to a flat spot or to hang, nestling into evergreens such as rhododendron, hemlock, fir groves, etc. Even near but not directly at lean tos are often obvious overflow campsites that sometimes offer greater privacy IF you are willing to look around rather than taking the typical sheltering approach of ATers that habitually flop and drop for their convenience at lean tos. Getting to the point where you require a smaller sleep footprint such as hammocking, cowboy camping, etc can get you into spots with greater solitude than tenters especially those with larger footprint tents. When doing this though you need to know and apply LNT Principles. If you do tent facing you tent opening away from the beaten path offers greater privacy in itself too.
IMO, and what you'll observe, when possible the AT constructors and maintainers are wisely placing newer lean tos a short distance off the main tread rather than having the main tread passing right in front of the lean to.
Good places to look are blue blazed trails that intersect with the AT. Most thruhikers won't bother to go down blue blazes, even if they are only a half mile to an observation point or other place of interest. Most are so obsessed with forward motion and making miles on the AT that they skip the side trails.
lonehiker
01-24-2016, 14:45
If it is allowed, the easiest way to get away from the crowds is to find a camping spot right off the trail but 1/4 mile after or 1/4 mile before a shelter (and all the distance in-between). But to answer you specific question, generally, it is very easy to go just a short distance (couple hundred yards max) off the trail for total solitude.
Puddlefish
01-24-2016, 14:57
So, this brings up the next question. Say you go 100 yards or more off the trail. The danger then is getting disoriented after several days in a row, in different locations.
What tricks do you use to point your way back to the trail? Make a little arrow out of sticks or rocks, take a compass heading and write it down so you don't forget it?
fiddlehead
01-24-2016, 19:26
I'm with Garlic here.
If you eat your dinner and then walk again, until dark, or almost dark, then just find a simple place to camp just off trail (legally you have to be 100 ft or so), and get up and walk at first light, you'll be fine.
No fire, no camping near streams, sleep with your food, no problem.
(you'll see some evening and morning wildlife this way too, and most hikers are in their tents )
So, this brings up the next question. Say you go 100 yards or more off the trail. The danger then is getting disoriented after several days in a row, in different locations.
What tricks do you use to point your way back to the trail? Make a little arrow out of sticks or rocks, take a compass heading and write it down so you don't forget it?
Wait until you cross a small stream, then follow it off trail into the woods. Then follow it back.
One Half
01-24-2016, 19:48
Massachusetts is a state were you are restricted to camping at designated sites only.
And in the Whites also I believe
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
4eyedbuzzard
01-24-2016, 20:01
And in the Whites also I believe
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe Whites have their own somewhat detailed set of rules http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5363715.pdf
And in the Whites also I believe
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not so much. No camping above tree line unless its on two feet of snow. There are areas that are protected snd restricted, like in the Wilderness areas, no camping within 1/4 of a road, stream or trail, and fires are prohibited except at established sites.
I'm not anti social but I do enjoy my privacy .
What are the opportunities of venturing off AT 1/4 mile or so to camp at a secluded campsite . Non in particular is at mind . I know the majority camp in and around the shelters and that's OK if need be . But I would rather camp in my own space and avoid the (at times) hoop law that goes along with the shelter scene .
What's the standard so as not to be trespassing ? Are there any opportunities for this ?
Thx ,
Gonzo
The guide books will inform you as to the camping rules for each region. GSMNP and the White Mountains are notoriously restricted.
It's catch as catch can. Setting aside legal matters -- you learn from experience what might work and what might not. Hardwood forest is a "maybe." Spruce/fir forest, often not -- the undergrowth is just too dense. Exposed ridges almost always should be avoided.
Sometimes when it looks too easy there's a reason. In some places like the White Mountains and Maine, it gets darn near impossible to find a usable site except on those rare occasions where the trail drops off the ridge and into hardwood forest for a while.
I'd say the best odds are in the south (excluding GSMNP). Most of Virginia, your odds are good. NY, NJ and CT have rules. Vermont has possibilities; the AT in Vermont is almost all below treeline.
Along with what some others are saying getting privacy or more of as sense of solitude on a heavily used trail like the AT or at times of heavy usage don't do what the masses do.
1) Start hiking early as early as 4-5 a.m GREAT in summer. You'll experience a different world that even many AT Thru-hikers miss. I see a lot more wildlife hiking before the masses start unrolling from their tents. Being on trail before sunrise experiencing it is awesome. Wander off the beaten path around 12-2 p.m. to take a nap, read, catch a breeze at a secluded overlook ledge/rock, chill in a cool grove of "I can breathe now" evergreens, take a dip, check out a found baby waterfall, whatever. These hrs are particularly good for contemplation so if you do hike with someone do little talking which increases the sense of solitude in itself..shut up. Added Bonus: Early starts have the benefit of getting in perhaps the majority of your daily mileage during the coolest perhaps most ideal weather. 2) Don't habituate yourself needing to camp at water sources especially ones viewable from the beaten path or well described in AT guidebooks with campsites 3) Eat dinner near or at a water source which virtually all AT lean-tos are sited near and then hike on to make a dry camp 4) Night hike. Finding a scenic spot like an overlook to take in sunset and then hiking on is another classic solitude enhancer for me. Taking in the sunset this way makes me want to hike on not usually camp. Much of the AT is rather ideal for night hiking. You'll see nocturnally active wildlife and, if you open yourself up to it, plants that are more "alive" at night or in a night time mode which is again another time in a different world.
GoldenBear
01-24-2016, 23:36
> I do enjoy my privacy
As someone who doesn't like sharing a shelter or camp site with even one other person, and has managed to sleep completely alone about half the time, permit me to suggest a completely different approach.
Hall of Fame baseball player Willie Keeler said his approach to batting baseballs was simple: "Hit 'em where they ain't."
I employ a similar approach to being alone: "hike where they ain't."
This means hiking north of the bulge early in the season, then south of the bulge during the summer months.
I'm fully aware this means (1) you have great difficulty doing a thru-hike in one season, and (2) you'll be hiking in areas when the weather can be a major problem -- cold in the north and steamy in the south.
If doing a thru-hike is a must for you, or if you want to "hike through spring," then forget this idea.
But if it's simply a matter of doing long-term backpacking, and avoiding people is a high priority, then consider my approach -- you can do backpacks of several weeks and still be alone MOST of the time.
But be aware that my idea doesn't ALWAYS work:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/entry.php/8002-Do-you-need-rain-where-you-live-Part-1
It's true, if solitude is your goal, then don't travel with the herd. There are many ways to avoid the herd.
Do a flip flop hike, go SOBO, or walk the trail in sections. As a section hiker you get to choose your seasons.
I hiked the middle third of the trail in late summer / early fall one year and pretty much had it to myself, except for Shenandoah Park on Labor Day weekend.
LittleRock
01-25-2016, 14:25
I've only hiked the southernmost 600 miles of the AT, but I've never had trouble finding a secluded spot to tent camp within 100 yards of the trail that wasn't visible from the trail. The woods are dense enough that all you need to do is find a flat spot a little ways off trail and most likely no one will know you're there. As others have suggested, one good way to find good "stealth" campsites are to follow either a blue blaze trail or a stream away from the AT. If you stop late and start early, most likely no one else will even pass your campsite.
wornoutboots
01-25-2016, 15:00
There are plenty of "hidden" campsites, not too far off the main trail if you take your time & look for them.
gonegonzo
01-25-2016, 18:56
Thank all of you for your input . I see that there are many options here .
Fiddle head , I never eat my meals at my campsite . I made that mistake when canoeing in bear country and had a couple bear encounters because they knew food was served there . That was the end of my eating meals at camp . I will still bear bag my food as well which I also do away from camp .
I also like Dodwood's approach of eating in the shelter (water source) areas and then dry camping . Starting early in the morning is up my alley too as I am a morning person . However 5 AM would be my ideal time so I didn't miss an hour of smelling the roses . I like the idea of a little MY TIME in the middle of the day too .
I'm getting a better view of things now . I was really concerned about being over ran with hikers around evening time .
Thx again ,
Gonzo
On several trips in VA, NC, TN, and GA we would just aim for a shelter for the evening because we knew we could get water. So we would arrive and load up on 2 qts water each for the night/morning, and continue hiking until we found a good place to camp. Generally this involved climbing onto a ridge and scouting for a flat place along the top; this always worked out very well. This gets around the problem of camping in the majority of beautiful ridgetop areas which have no water.
greensleep
01-25-2016, 21:46
hammocking allows easier access to secluded sites most of the time; no need for flat, smooth, dry surfaces.
Not so much. No camping above tree line unless its on two feet of snow. There are areas that are protected snd restricted, like in the Wilderness areas, no camping within 1/4 of a road, stream or trail, and fires are prohibited except at established sites.
There are no blanket restrictions requiring one camp a 1/4 mile away from a stream or trail in the Whites. And campfires are allowed even in Wilderness areas in the WMNF, with certain specific exceptions.
gonegonzo
01-26-2016, 00:04
Sounds like a good plan Rock Doc
Last season I hiked sobo alone most every day and used both shelter and tent and all the while had the places pretty much to myself or 1 or 2 others that were hiking nobo. I picked their brains for a bit and let them know what was coming up ahead, that made for some good intel. I hiked the section from NY line to Rockfish Gap in two segments starting at Snickers Gap sobo when I ran into what seemed like a nobo bubble starting I hopped north to NY and started sobo again. I had the place to myself my own little trail some times I'd go 2 and one 3 nights without anyone and once sow no one for a full 2 days and one night on the trail, first day was rainy do no day hikers. I vote for off bubble when I can and I've done the Spring start from the Approach Trail (never again) too. 40 to 50 looking towards the same privy in the AM yuck! If I ever attempt a thru again it will be flippin or sobo for the quiet.
There are no blanket restrictions requiring one camp a 1/4 mile away from a stream or trail in the Whites. And campfires are allowed even in Wilderness areas in the WMNF, with certain specific exceptions.
I should have been more specific towards FPA, or forest protection areas where those are the restrictions, and I've only seen those in the Wilderness areas of the WMNF.