View Full Version : Another Approach With The Freezer Bag?
LostInSpace
12-14-2005, 20:04
I have been fascinated with Sarbar's freezer bag approach to cooking. My hiking partner hates the cleanup, so we spend way to much on commercial packaged dehydrated food. I think the freezer bag way is a brilliant (light) way to try.
Some of my efforts using freezer bag cooking have been successful and others have not. The biggest problem I have encountered is that by the time the food is hydrated to the consistency that I like, it is colder than I prefer. The problem occurs more with pastas, and to a lesser extent with minute rice. Cozies help, but do not solve my problem.
I have been experimenting using the following approach:
Put the desired amount of water, unheated, into the freezer bag with the dry contents. Cold-water hydrate the food for some period of time, while you set up camp, etc. After the food is soft, put the freezer bag into a pot. Add water to the pot, outside of the freezer bag. Use a pot that is large enough so that that it is not completely full so you can cover it with a lid. Bring the water to a boil and take off the stove. Leave the freezer bag in the pot of hot water for the necessary period of time. Remove the freezer bag and eat. Use the warmed water for whatever else you might need.
At home, at least, this approach has proved reasonable effective for me. I would like to know if this seems like a reasonable approach, and what success or failures others might have with this approach.
Skidsteer
12-14-2005, 20:09
Is your freezer bag resting on the bottom of the pot? I'm wondering why it doesn't melt if it is. Please tell us more, I'm intrigued.
Sure, that will work (which publicly I won't put on my website due to not wanting people to hurt themselves ;) but yeah, as long as you are careful, not doing it in a roiling boil for long periods of time, not on the bottom of the pan..blahblah blah ;)
I have done it before - I just held the bag by my hand and let it sit while the water simmered.
Skidsteer
12-14-2005, 20:57
Sure, that will work (which publicly I won't put on my website due to not wanting people to hurt themselves ;) but yeah, as long as you are careful, not doing it in a roiling boil for long periods of time, not on the bottom of the pan..blahblah blah ;)
I have done it before - I just held the bag by my hand and let it sit while the water simmered.
Maybe some of those metal folder/file clamps to hold the bag suspended off the bottom of the pot? Thinking, thinking, thinking...could possibly double by holding the edges of your bag around the cozy when it's time to eat?
LostInSpace
12-14-2005, 21:14
I did not try to suspend the freezer bag. The water on the outside of the bag distributes the heat well enough so that the bag does not melt. By the time the water outside the bag boils, the bubbles cause the freezer bag to float a little off the bottom of the pot.
I should also add..I have done the "boil the eggs in a freezer bag omelete" with no problems - and doing that you have a freezer bag in a pot of simmering water for 7-15 minutes, and yep, it floats (though I watch it!). Love them omelets!!
Skidsteer
12-14-2005, 23:10
Good info, and food for thought-so to speak.
The biggest problem I have encountered is that by the time the food is hydrated to the consistency that I like, it is colder than I prefer. The problem occurs more with pastas, and to a lesser extent with minute rice. Cozies help, but do not solve my problem.
With the cozy I use (Army surplus CCF sleeping pad cut up and duct taped together) I don't have this problem - food stays warm right up to the end of eating - note however I eat it with the bag still in the cozy. So I guess what I am saying is to keep trying different cozies - that is to say unless you _like_ carrying a bigger than needed cook set.
Freezer bag omeletes! That alone is a good reason to go hikin.:clap
Uncle Silly
12-15-2005, 07:26
that's a great way to deal with eggs on the trail ... with the added bonus of not needing to muss up any additional containers trying to whip the eggs! i tried a couple of the Backpackers Pantry scrambled-egg mixes this summer and just couldn't get them to come out decently without burning (cooking on a skillet over esbit tabs or alcohol stove). if i'd known this trick i could've just boiled the mix in the package!
sparky2000
12-15-2005, 08:15
How big a pot are u using to do these feats ?
How big a pot are u using to do these feats ?
Standard size 4 cup pot for the omelets (and I only have doen this on easy low mileage trips ;)
I put my eggs in the bag, tossed in seasonings and whatever else I wanted-which was cheese...and sealed tightly, pushing all air out. Then I carefully kneaded the bag till mixed, then slipped the bag into a pot of simmering water , flipping occasionally-and carefully, carefully squishing the bag to move uncooked egg outwards. Very, very tasty!
my cozy is made from a 3/8" blue foam pad, and i've never had my ramen or lipton noodles not cook thoroughly... most times it's still too hot to eat when i remove the cover... however, i've noticed that my lunchtime favorite ramen cups take much longer than the 3 minutes the label suggests, especially the dried meat parts... so maybe dehydrated stuff isn't all the same...
outside temperature probably has a lot to do with it too... i'm in LA... upper 90s most of the summer, 70s and 80s in spring and fall... 50s and 60 in 'winter' (i know... i'm from the northeast, and it's not really winter, but indulge me... it's technically winter...)
i guess the big question is 'what's your cozy made of'...
Just pop it in the microwave. ;)
Seriously, get a better cozy. There's all kinds of options even up to hard foam(water faucet covers) with closed-cell foam lids that will keep food hot a long while in cold temps.
Lanthar Mandragoran
12-15-2005, 12:37
Is your freezer bag resting on the bottom of the pot? I'm wondering why it doesn't melt if it is. Please tell us more, I'm intrigued.
Actually, unless the bag is heavy enough to completely seal itself against the bottom of the pot, not letting any water circulate underneath it, it will only be exposed to 212 deg F (or a tiny bit more due to the weight of the water above the bottom of the pot increasing the boiling point of the water on the bottom surface of the pot). A 'safer' method might be to get the water boiling / simmering, THEN slip in the bag, this would ensure plenty of water circulating under the bag (due to boiling action) and prevent the sealing against the bottom.
If you're really worried about it, a small coil of aluminum (edges sanded to remove burrs) would ensure that the bag never 'touched' the bottom for minimal weight.
You should try the bakepacker. I really really like using it. I use it on every trip I go on. I take it even on day hikes if I want to eat a hot meal. Its a good time to try out recipes that you might not want to try if you are on a long trip. Clean up is a breeze. I like to make up my own recipes at home and then dazzle my frinds that are eating oatmeal or cereal bar.
I recently adopted freezer bag cooking for a five-day AT section hike and loved it. No cleanup when cooking after dark and very easy to do.
But....my hiking partner and I were talking about possible health risks from the hot plastic. Since freezer bags are intended for cold rather than hot temperatures, does boiling the bag cause hydrocarbons and other chemicals from the bag to leach into the food? I did some searching online and everything I found about safety studies of plastic freezer bags pertains to their intended use for cold storage of foods, not heating.
Not to rain on anyone's good time, but since some plastic utensils are not recommended for microwave use due to possible chemical contamination, I wonder if anything has been researched about possible health risks of exposing food in freezer bags to high temperatures.
Given that I go out only 15-20 nights per year I don't think I would stop using freezer bags to cook in but it might give some people pause for thought. Are their any chemists here who could speak to this issue? :-?
The Cheat
12-16-2005, 11:55
I recently adopted freezer bag cooking for a five-day AT section hike and loved it. No cleanup when cooking after dark and very easy to do.
But....my hiking partner and I were talking about possible health risks from the hot plastic. Since freezer bags are intended for cold rather than hot temperatures, does boiling the bag cause hydrocarbons and other chemicals from the bag to leach into the food? I did some searching online and everything I found about safety studies of plastic freezer bags pertains to their intended use for cold storage of foods, not heating.
Not to rain on anyone's good time, but since some plastic utensils are not recommended for microwave use due to possible chemical contamination, I wonder if anything has been researched about possible health risks of exposing food in freezer bags to high temperatures.
Given that I go out only 15-20 nights per year I don't think I would stop using freezer bags to cook in but it might give some people pause for thought. Are their any chemists here who could speak to this issue? :-?
Maybe need something like this?
http://www.pansaver.com/ovenbags-how.htm
I recently adopted freezer bag cooking for a five-day AT section hike and loved it. No cleanup when cooking after dark and very easy to do.
But....my hiking partner and I were talking about possible health risks from the hot plastic. Since freezer bags are intended for cold rather than hot temperatures, does boiling the bag cause hydrocarbons and other chemicals from the bag to leach into the food? I did some searching online and everything I found about safety studies of plastic freezer bags pertains to their intended use for cold storage of foods, not heating.
Not to rain on anyone's good time, but since some plastic utensils are not recommended for microwave use due to possible chemical contamination, I wonder if anything has been researched about possible health risks of exposing food in freezer bags to high temperatures.
Given that I go out only 15-20 nights per year I don't think I would stop using freezer bags to cook in but it might give some people pause for thought. Are their any chemists here who could speak to this issue? :-?
There are risks to everything-and lets say that I wouldn't eat out of fb's 365 days a year, but for monthly backpacking I don't give it much pause. Depending on my mood, I eat out of dishwasher safe rubbermaid style containers periodically on the trail, or out of a mug. One isn't limited to using the bags persay ;) The bags are just easisest ;) Any "add water" recipe can be done in any container that can handle water and heat.
I have read some articles talking about the plastics breaking down with extremely hot liquids-but if you consider this, the water has quit boiling by the time it reaches your bag, and starts cooling down instantly. It is holding hot, but not boiling water. When you go to eat, it is in the 120-160 range of temps, depending on a cozy being used or not. While you can simmer a fb in water in a pan, I wouldn't recomend doing that constantly. But then again, you have to look at ALL your exposures during your day to day-and that eating out of a plastic bag is the worst thing you do when backpacking-but nothing compared to the pollution you face at home.
Just my 2 cents :)
LostInSpace
12-16-2005, 19:49
I should also add..I have done the "boil the eggs in a freezer bag omelete" with no problems - and doing that you have a freezer bag in a pot of simmering water for 7-15 minutes, and yep, it floats (though I watch it!). Love them omelets!!
Thanks for the idea! My hiking partner is an egg freak. She will love this idea.
LostInSpace
12-16-2005, 20:01
The petrochemicals in city water likely exceed the amount released from boiling food-grade polyethylene.
Toolshed
12-16-2005, 20:55
here's the secret to not letting your freezer bag melt at the bottom of the pot. Carry some small 1/2"-1"balls of aluminum foil (Keep'em right in your cookpot) and put them on the bottom of a potful of water and then put your ziplock bag in. They are light and will keep the bag from melting.
There are risks to everything-and lets say that I wouldn't eat out of fb's 365 days a year, but for monthly backpacking I don't give it much pause. Depending on my mood, I eat out of dishwasher safe rubbermaid style containers periodically on the trail, or out of a mug. One isn't limited to using the bags persay ;) The bags are just easisest ;) Any "add water" recipe can be done in any container that can handle water and heat.
I have read some articles talking about the plastics breaking down with extremely hot liquids-but if you consider this, the water has quit boiling by the time it reaches your bag, and starts cooling down instantly. It is holding hot, but not boiling water. When you go to eat, it is in the 120-160 range of temps, depending on a cozy being used or not. While you can simmer a fb in water in a pan, I wouldn't recomend doing that constantly. But then again, you have to look at ALL your exposures during your day to day-and that eating out of a plastic bag is the worst thing you do when backpacking-but nothing compared to the pollution you face at home.
Just my 2 cents :)
Thanks for your reply, Sarbar.
I'm glad to see that your book is now available. I'll be ordering a copy right after we get back from the holidays.
Easy Strider
Cold or hot, the chemicals from the plastic leech into the food - at "acceptable" levels. That means, if you are not sensitive to chemicals, and you use plastic once, you will probably not have any health problems. Most of us, however, drink out of a plastic bottle, store food in plastic containers, heat in plastic, use plastic utensils, etc. Because of this, I am now chemical-sensitive. My doctors don't even want me buying juice in plastic bottles. Yeah, right; just try to find stuff in glass jars anymore! It isn't easy, but I try to do the best I can. I certainly wouldn't cook in it, though. Clean up may be more of a pain in the short term, but avoiding plastic as much as possible will be worth it in the long term. Besides, it's better on the environment! :)
I recently adopted freezer bag cooking for a five-day AT section hike and loved it. No cleanup when cooking after dark and very easy to do.
But....my hiking partner and I were talking about possible health risks from the hot plastic. Since freezer bags are intended for cold rather than hot temperatures, does boiling the bag cause hydrocarbons and other chemicals from the bag to leach into the food? I did some searching online and everything I found about safety studies of plastic freezer bags pertains to their intended use for cold storage of foods, not heating.
Not to rain on anyone's good time, but since some plastic utensils are not recommended for microwave use due to possible chemical contamination, I wonder if anything has been researched about possible health risks of exposing food in freezer bags to high temperatures.
Given that I go out only 15-20 nights per year I don't think I would stop using freezer bags to cook in but it might give some people pause for thought. Are their any chemists here who could speak to this issue? :-?
HarleyHogPit
12-18-2005, 21:42
I should also add..I have done the "boil the eggs in a freezer bag omelete" with no problems - and doing that you have a freezer bag in a pot of simmering water for 7-15 minutes, and yep, it floats (though I watch it!). Love them omelets!!
This is such a good idea. I'm going to give it a try. Thanks for the tip.