View Full Version : Why aren't people interested in Great Eastern Trail?
There, I asked it. What do you say?
4eyedbuzzard
01-31-2016, 12:08
No hiker feeds. :rolleyes: ;)
Okay seriously, same can be said for a lot of other LD trails that aren't truly completed trails. The NCT comes to mind right away. Lots of unfinished trail, lots of road walks, little infrastructure/hiker services, lack of "advertising", recognition, etc. Having a planned route and some of the trail built isn't going to attract a lot of hikers. They're not the AT, PCT, or even the CDT. Add that the AT has achieved "cult pilgrimage" status.
I'm getting much more involved with local trails lately. I crossed paths with the GET this fall on the Tully Trail in western MA.
One of the problems with trails other than the AT is that they have many roadwalks and not a whole lot of vertical.
Did the Monadnock-Sunapee trail last summer and it was fine, though again, lots of walking on country lanes, ATV trails, etc.
Or the finger lakes trail or Northville placid trail or ...............
Comparing any of these trails to the AT reveals a lot of what's wonderful and not-so-wonderful about the AT.
They don't have the crowds or the traffic. They often don't have shelters. They often have lots of roadwalks. Compared to the AT, they're often poorly maintained, poorly marked, and subject to frequent re-routes. They travel extensively over private land.
Because of this, some of them aren't really amenable to thru-hiking. They're meant more for day use.
They simply don't have the massive volunteer force that ATC and its many member clubs can bring to bear. Historically, the AT is an amazing, wonderful and unique thing.
Lone Wolf
01-31-2016, 12:52
no shelters, no hostels, no feeds, no shuttles, etc.
Puddlefish
01-31-2016, 12:58
I'm getting much more involved with local trails lately. I crossed paths with the GET this fall on the Tully Trail in western MA.
One of the problems with trails other than the AT is that they have many roadwalks and not a whole lot of vertical.
Did the Monadnock-Sunapee trail last summer and it was fine, though again, lots of walking on country lanes, ATV trails, etc.
I've day hiked the elevated portions of the Monadnock-Sunapee trail. They ask that you camp only at the six designated campsites, five of which are shelters, which for me isn't an ideal thru hike.
no shelters, no hostels, no feeds, no shuttles, etc.
No guides (ALDHA, Awol, Nat Geo) or Guthook maps either.
I can tell you for certain one of the weirdest and most unpleasant shelter experiences I ever had was on the Finger Lakes Trail.
The Monadnock-Sunapee trail in southern NH has three or four shelters that are very simple but nice. The MA mid-state trail also has a few shelters of varying condition, but lots of road walking.
Slo-go'en
01-31-2016, 13:04
I've day hiked the elevated portions of the Monadnock-Sunapee trail. They ask that you camp only at the six designated campsites, five of which are shelters, which for me isn't an ideal thru hike.
Why not? They were nice shelters and when Rafe and I did the MST last summer we were the only ones there. We did meet two girls going the other way one afternoon, but that was it.
Puddlefish
01-31-2016, 13:07
Why not? They were nice shelters and when Rafe and I did the MST last summer we were the only ones there. We did meet two girls going the other way one afternoon, but that was it.
Probably only because of my own prejudices and phobias. For what it's worth sleeping in campers creeps me out as well. Maybe I'll give it a try.
Slo and I have done a few hikes together but he's more of a stickler for rules and regulations about camping. :)
Wapac Trail is another one I did this summer (all 22 miles, woo hoo!). It has no official shelters or campsites. It goes through a cross-country ski area that has a shelter on it... but supposedly that shelter is only available by reservation.
The shelter had a direct view to some house in the valley below, which made me a bit uneasy. Rather than stay at the (empty) shelter I made a stealth camp nearby.
Too many road portions for my taste. Honestly though, I would probably do it if it was more convenient for me to get to as part of day/weekend trips.
SonrisaJo
01-31-2016, 20:29
I think it's because the GET requires advanced planning. Unless there is one guide someday, it will always require more planning than the AT (and most other long trails). There *are* guides, guides for every section, but you have to figure it all out and buy many of them as opposed to dropping $20 on a single guide.
Cookerhiker
01-31-2016, 22:00
My major - indeed only - hiking experience with the GET or similar is 3 hikes on the Allegheny Trail. I planned a thruhike in 2010 and noted how much additional research was required at the time because unlike the AT, the ALT doesn't have an infrastructure of services - hostels, shuttlers, networks of fellow hikers, trail towns, etc.. But that's not a complaint - I actually enjoyed the challenge of planning a less-traveled and less-popular trail. The 2010 hike itself was torpedoed after one night (severe injury to my hiking partner) so I section-hiked more of it in 2011 and 2012. My observation at the time was - and still is - that the ALT was like the AT was 60 years ago - more road walks, less maintenance, inferior maps. Despite the attendant challenges, there was something refreshing about it.
I suspect this is the case for the rest of the GET corridor. It's in its early stages, just like the AT was at one point. It may never reach the AT's popularity but it will have an appeal for those who want to hike more solitary trails.
I think it's because the GET requires advanced planning. Unless there is one guide someday, it will always require more planning than the AT (and most other long trails). There *are* guides, guides for every section, but you have to figure it all out and buy many of them as opposed to dropping $20 on a single guide.
There was an attempt last year SOBO by someone who was very capable and determined to convert available guide information into mapping suitable for his purposes, someone who was a previous thru-hiker and apparently in excellent shape. Yet, that individual did not even make it into the sketchier guide areas. His less previously experienced initial hiking partner made it into the 5th state before she was injured and left the trail.
As for road walking, this page (by someone who very much should know) points out there is less of that than on the CDT or some other more often thru hiked trails: http://www.gethiking.net/2014/05/roadwalking-on-great-eastern-trail.html
This has been interesting, any additional thoughts?
The Solemates
02-01-2016, 10:07
ive enjoyed the PA mid state trail portion of the GET!
Tennessee Viking
02-01-2016, 10:51
There are large segments of road walk or abandoned trails.
WingedMonkey
02-01-2016, 11:36
I've got a binder full of plans to hike it.
Plans and trail keep changing.
Maybe within the next few years I can actually get it done.
There was an attempt last year SOBO by someone who was very capable and determined to convert available guide information into mapping suitable for his purposes, someone who was a previous thru-hiker and apparently in excellent shape.
Many "experienced" thru-hikers know how to hike a long trail that is well defined, has ample guidebooks and an ample community around it. (Definitely the triple crown trails. Some of the regional trails such as the CT, LT, JMT. And arguably some of the gnarlier trails but with excellent resources such as they Hayduke to a certain extent).
IF there is a very active Facebook group for the trail, much of the logistic challenge and planning is a lot easier, I think, as a good rule of thumb.
Off the beaten path ones that are also off the radar? Not-so-much.
I don't know the person you are alluding to or who it is , but I would not be surprised if that is the case.
Just my observation that may or may not be reality (http://www.pmags.com/thru-hikers-specialized-outdoors-knowledge). :)
full conditions
02-01-2016, 12:44
There, I asked it. What do you say?
I actually am pretty interested in section hiking the GET. The AT has become like some sort organized cruise (you know, where if its monday this must be Belgium) where it just seems so predictable -we have detailed maps, books, beta, apps, and an entire web forum that removes virtually any chance that we might get surprised. Maybe more like a Holiday Inn than a cruise. Seems like the GET might just require some route finding and navigation and decision making. And the potential for surprises and adventure. In the meantime, it would be kinda nice if some of those road walks got a tad shorter.
IF there is a very active Facebook group for the trail, much of the logistic challenge and planning is a lot easier, I think, as a good rule of thumb.
There was an FB Page, and now there is also a Group, thanks for the idea!
... now there is also a Group
This might be the right hyperlink for it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/474050112796297/
This might be the right hyperlink for it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/474050112796297/
Yup, that's it. Tnx, Peter.
lonehiker
02-01-2016, 16:12
I actually am pretty interested in section hiking the GET. The AT has become like some sort organized cruise (you know, where if its monday this must be Belgium) where it just seems so predictable -we have detailed maps, books, beta, apps, and an entire web forum that removes virtually any chance that we might get surprised. Maybe more like a Holiday Inn than a cruise. Seems like the GET might just require some route finding and navigation and decision making. And the potential for surprises and adventure. In the meantime, it would be kinda nice if some of those road walks got a tad shorter.
You could opt to not use all of the detailed maps, books, beta, apps, web forums etc. and get as many surprises as you would like....
full conditions
02-01-2016, 20:21
You could opt to not use all of the detailed maps, books, beta, apps, web forums etc. and get as many surprises as you would like....
On my first thru hike in '76, it was like that. Now, after a second thru and the equivalent of a third in section hikes, there aren't a ton of surprises left. Not dissing the AT - not by a long shot - just interested in some fresh ground that seems relatively undiscovered by the long distance hiking community.
I actually am pretty interested in section hiking the GET. The AT has become like some sort organized cruise (you know, where if its monday this must be Belgium) where it just seems so predictable -we have detailed maps, books, beta, apps, and an entire web forum that removes virtually any chance that we might get surprised. Maybe more like a Holiday Inn than a cruise. Seems like the GET might just require some route finding and navigation and decision making. And the potential for surprises and adventure. In the meantime, it would be kinda nice if some of those road walks got a tad shorter.
This seems to me to be vastly overstated. The AT, at least the mid-Atlantic and Virginia sections that I've hiked outside of thru hiker season, is generally well marked but is hardly some type of spoon fed cruise of a hike. It is what you make it. That being said, I am looking at the Tuscarora this spring for something a bit different.
I actually am pretty interested in section hiking the GET. The AT has become like some sort organized cruise (you know, where if its monday this must be Belgium) where it just seems so predictable -we have detailed maps, books, beta, apps, and an entire web forum that removes virtually any chance that we might get surprised. Maybe more like a Holiday Inn than a cruise. Seems like the GET might just require some route finding and navigation and decision making. And the potential for surprises and adventure. In the meantime, it would be kinda nice if some of those road walks got a tad shorter.
Seems odd to be complaining about the existence of an AT web forum... on an AT web forum.
An abundance of information on a subject may well reflect the interest in that subject. It doesn't mean that there's nothing new to learn about it.
I can't imagine walking from Georgia to Maine (or vice versa) and not being surprised once or twice, at least. ;)
This might be the right hyperlink for it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/474050112796297/
Here is a more intelligible hyperlink: https://www.facebook.com/groups/GETHiking/
On my first thru hike in '76, it was like that. Now, after a second thru and the equivalent of a third in section hikes, there aren't a ton of surprises left. Not dissing the AT - not by a long shot - just interested in some fresh ground that seems relatively undiscovered by the long distance hiking community.
When was the second thru? Have you done the Long Trail yet?
I understand that the AT can feel like a circus at times and in certain places. That's one of the reasons I've been exploring other trails as well.
One of the problems I worry about is the occasional town stop. Along the AT corridor, ragged hikers are a common sight and probably don't elicit all that much response from the locals. Along the GET, or similar lesser-known trail, you don't have that advantage. Folks may react with alarm. I suppose it was like that in '76 along the AT as well.
I hiked the MA mid-State trail in sections, and often wonder if it would have been feasible as a thru-hike. The problem is even worse with the Bay Circuit Trail, where I know for sure the answer is no way.
Here is a more intelligible hyperlink: https://www.facebook.com/groups/GETHiking/
Cool.. Just a thought.. Maybe make the group open? People are more likely to join if they see activity. A closed group, with only a handful of members visible, may not be as welcoming?
As others said, the perception is the GET(Great Eastern Trail, there is also the Grand Enchantment Trail GET) is not convenient enough. Many hikers, just like most of society, are followers. They flock to the known and recognized avoiding the unknown usually fearing it like the plague. Not until a critical mass is reached through publicity from GET hikers will others try the GET. It could be there are similarities to why not the GET as to why not a AT section hike rather than attempting an AT Thu-hike? I really think it has very little to do with stretches of road walking as several other better known and recognized routes and trails include road walks of various natures and degrees and yet they are hiked.
Mags makes a good point. Look at the Hayduke Trail which is largely a route which is only now being more hiked since Skurka introduced his affordable HDT mapset package and the information that has been generated surrounding it making it logistically easier/friendly and more recognized. Heck, in all honesty if I had Andrew's package or the HDT information now available for my HDT thru-hike it would have made the HDT so much easier but much less adventerous. For me, I embraced the adventure and unexpected of not knowing so much going in.
I think the Sierra High Route is another good example. Since Andrew again offered his affordable well done SHR mapset package it makes a thru-hike of it easier logistically. Not that this either is necessarily a bad thing.
Yet another example is the Batona Tr in New Jersey's Pine Barrens a route I mostly walked on three day hiking/hunting/fishing/survivalist outings long before it became the much better known named and blazed trail it has become. Did much anyone care about this route as I walked it before it became better know or would they have cared much if I had shared the route I walked before it became the better know Batona Tr(BAck TONAture) as it exists today? No. Not really.
The BMT is another trail very worthy of being hiked. Not until Guidebooks, mapsets, lean tos, umpteen blazes/signage, a critical mass is reached, MUCH CONVENIENCE exist, etc do people get more interested. The BMT has Sgt Rock's excellent BMT materials, good Nat Geo TI maps, easy logistics, etc etc yet still goes overwhelming ignored. Why? Perhaps not enough convenience! Not enough information? I liked Mags take on this. http://www.pmags.com/bread-crumbs-how-much-information-is-enough How many AT Thru-hikers will give consideration to taking the BMT in part or the Tuscarora or Pinhoti or adiffernt route through the Whites...? No, stay on the interstate that is the AT with its many road crossings, lean tos, hiker feeds, MASSIVE MASSIVE OVER ANALYSIS, MASSIVE OVER OPINING, tomes of books- "How To Hike The AT", etc.
Like Mags says lots of alphabet soup hikers who hike much for the convenience of staying on convenience oriented routes/trails. Not all have to!
Personally I like, and think backpacking is an ideal activity for it, available to many more who could but don't, to come up with their own adventerous spirited hikes...and NOT having to publicly advertise them so fully by doing such things as giving them a name for people to latch onto. Although, I do like the creativity and out side of the box thinking of designing routes as Andrew Skurka(Great Western Loop, Alaska Circumnavigation), Cam Honan(Southeast Serpentine), Aria Zoner(Hot Springs Routes in Cali and Idaho), Eric Shlimmer(Trans Adirondak Trail), Steve Roper(Sierra High Route), Brett Tucker(Grand Enchantment Tr, Sky Islands traverse), Joe Mitchell/Mike Coronella (Hayduke Tr)...etc have.
4eyedbuzzard
02-02-2016, 03:18
I'd just like to throw out this thought: Most of us, the 99%, aren't going to thru-hike any of the long trails. One of the best things about many parts of the AT is that it can be combined with other trails in a local trail system to create loop hikes. Out and backs are okay, but most of us would likely prefer to not cover the same ground twice. It's probably more psychological than anything, as we really aren't going anywhere in particular anyway. The most used parts of the AT tend to be in areas where it is part of a greater trail system. Hike logistics can be difficult. The biggest one is often getting back to your vehicle or getting to a trailhead and hiking back towards it. Sometimes two people can take two vehicles, but this has its own inefficiencies and doubles costs. Hiking a weekend on a end to-end puts you 20 miles away from your vehicle, a week puts you 100.
Maybe more blue blazed and supporting trails would help in this sense.
full conditions
02-02-2016, 07:37
Seems odd to be complaining about the existence of an AT web forum... on an AT web forum.
An abundance of information on a subject may well reflect the interest in that subject. It doesn't mean that there's nothing new to learn about it.
I can't imagine walking from Georgia to Maine (or vice versa) and not being surprised once or twice, at least. ;)
Under no circumstances am I complaining about any trail forums least of all this one. My point, which apparently I failed to articulate, is that the AT has become, for me, just a tad too predictable and civilized. I did my first thru with guidebooks given to me by my cousin that were at least 10 years out of date and a brand new data book that had minimal info about services in towns, etc... . Trail magic was something that happened spontaneously and unpredictably and there was a sense that we were kind of headed off into terra incognita. I called home about once every once to two weeks from pay phones in town. Part of what makes a long hike feel like an adventure for me, is the sense of being cut loose from the leashes and at least feeling like I'm kind of on my own (obviously, with civilization just down the hill in virtually any direction that sense is more perceived than real). I continue to do section hikes on the AT and will until I'm non-ambulatory - heck, I did one in New England this past summer and we had a ball - but it did not feel like an adventure. Lots of information is not the problem. Huge interest in the trail is not the problem. In fact, there isnt much of a problem at all from my perspective - I would just like to recapture that feeling of exploring a lightly traveled, somewhat unknown long trail right here on the east coast.
And yes of course, a hike from Georgia to Maine would include plenty of surprises - great people to meet - wonderful campsites you didnt expect - an encounter with wildlife that just about stops your heart. I just happen to think (hope) that there are probably more opportunities for those moments on the GET than of the AT. In the last decade, I've been taking a lot of weekend hikes on the Benton MacKaye Trail and it reminds me quite a bit of how the AT was once upon a time so I have evidence that these experiences are still possible here in the east - and that's really all I was saying.
full conditions
02-02-2016, 07:51
When was the second thru? Have you done the Long Trail yet?
I understand that the AT can feel like a circus at times and in certain places. That's one of the reasons I've been exploring other trails as well.
One of the problems I worry about is the occasional town stop. Along the AT corridor, ragged hikers are a common sight and probably don't elicit all that much response from the locals. Along the GET, or similar lesser-known trail, you don't have that advantage. Folks may react with alarm. I suppose it was like that in '76 along the AT as well.
I hiked the MA mid-State trail in sections, and often wonder if it would have been feasible as a thru-hike. The problem is even worse with the Bay Circuit Trail, where I know for sure the answer is no way.
Second thru was SOBO in 1980. Yes, I did the LT in 2010 - loved it, especially the northern half.
The circus aspect is pretty horrible down here in the spring but by May its mostly cleared out.
Even in '76 long distance hikers were a relatively common sight in AT towns - not too many eyebrows raised in places Hot Springs and Duncannon. Did get some repulsed looks in Hanover and Salisbury though.
Make a documentary about it or a movie like the A.T. and PCT has.... people will magically want to hike it.
Cool.. Just a thought.. Maybe make the group open? People are more likely to join if they see activity. A closed group, with only a handful of members visible, may not be as welcoming?
Good point! I created it on the phone and I guess closed was default. Forgot to change it, but now did.
I hear you Full Conditions. Let me respectfully offer this. Don't YOU become so predictable and civilized. :) Recognize the AT for how it was intended... a larger system...a much broader complex... of interconnected trails rather than THE AT. One can include other modes of travel by paddling, packrafting, bicycling, horse back riding, etc between trail broken sections too to make a muck larger multi faceted multi powered movement journey.
I am appalled by the lack of imagination from largely east coasters in a rut that they are so stuck in an AT only hiking rut and for the most part haven't embarked in exploring these options more so. If you do this the AT becomes more palatable through creatively possibly including sections of the AT in a larger journey. We need to think outside of not only the AT normals but our own self imposed ways of thinking. It's waiting. :-?
Great Eastern Loop? IAT? IAT with AT alternates(Bartram Tr, BMT, Tuscarora, etc)?
Here are some ideas. http://kickasstrips.com/2014/06/renata-chlumska-around-america-adventure-a-self-supported-kayak-bicycle-trip-around-the-periphery-of-the-usa/
AWESOME! Cool what Renata Chlumska did.
To spur the imagination combine a hiking, packrafting, and biking trip. Ever packraft with a mountain bike attached to the bow? It's been done by the imaginative. Involving the AT on such a multi powered trip is awaiting.
Hiking and bicycling -- I could talk about that for a while. :) It's a great way to travel, if you've got the time.
I haven't yet tried aqua-blazing. I don't think I'd enjoy portaging a water craft.
Rain Man
02-03-2016, 13:53
I met a GET thru-hiker on the Cumberland Trail here in Tennessee, an older woman from California with her dog. Myself? I have hiked almost all of the finished Cumberland Trail and a big chunk of the Sheltowee Trace in TN/KY. So far, I have not hit anything like some of the big mountains on the AT, but the rest of the footpath is very similar. I have found some few shelters so far, very similar to some on the AT. Have run into hikers on most every trip, not as many at the AT, but not totally alone either. I have run across services similar to the AT, except for true hostels, but not as often as on the AT.
Also hiked the Foothills Trail in SC and small part of the Pinhoti in AL, but not sure if they are considered part of the GET?
There are guides for the Cumberland Trail, the Sheltowee Trace, the Foothills Trail, and the Pinhoti Trail.
Haven't seen the link posted yet, so here it is:
The Great Eastern Trail link. (http://www.greateasterntrail.net/)
jmitchell
02-03-2016, 23:10
It took some time for the AT to catch on, so the same will be for the GET. As the route improves, it will gain traction. There have been several thruhike attempts, so that is a good sign. As the AT becomes more popular, the GET will be in a good position to benefit. I think it is a novel idea and worth pursuing. This may be a silly suggestion, but what about a more "compelling" northern terminus? Mt. Marcy, Slide Mtn, Niagara Falls, or one of the Finger Lakes region waterfalls?
This may be a silly suggestion, but what about a more "compelling" northern terminus? Mt. Marcy, Slide Mtn, Niagara Falls, or one of the Finger Lakes region waterfalls?
The NCNST/FLT powers that be resisted another overlay designation. Reasoning was that it might upset an apple cart of tender negotiations for the NCNST route in the Adirondack Park. But there seemed no appetite for non-Adirondack alternatives either.
Shepherd and Star Left did choose to begin their SOBO thru at Niagara Falls on the Conservation Trail.
One crazy cartographer even worked out a way to incorporate parts of the eastern FLT, Long Path, Taconic Crest Trail, what is now the New England NST, the Midstate Trail of Massachusetts, and RI's North-South Trail to land on the beach, but that was simply ignored.
Starchild
02-04-2016, 10:17
The AT is as pointed out, significantly different and shows the types of hikers. Those seeking what the AT 'was' would be, and are, seeking out what the GET is now. Also hiking it in the numbers of the original AT, in other words there are really a very small number of hikers seeking the original AT experience, and they have plenty of options, further diluting these hikers among many trails.
The AT has evolved way past that, to something IMHO much more wonderful and attracts many people, both hikers and angels, which has a much higher draw to it and connects many more people to a deep experience with nature, but in their case it also connects community, and that is the difference.
It is the connection of nature/self/community that is so attractive, it is a basic need of many people, it is a basic need of everyone to have connections, many need more then just a 'nature/self' only connection and why the current AT is so important to society as it is today and as it is evolving.
SonrisaJo
02-04-2016, 11:23
One of the problems I worry about is the occasional town stop. Along the AT corridor, ragged hikers are a common sight and probably don't elicit all that much response from the locals. Along the GET, or similar lesser-known trail, you don't have that advantage. Folks may react with alarm. I suppose it was like that in '76 along the AT as well.
You are 100% correct that hikers were not a common sight in most of the GET trail towns. But far from reacting with alarm, strangers were so incredibly wonderful, offering up places to stay, often offering us money (thinking we were homeless - no, we didn't accept!), being genuinely curious and friendly. We didn't have a single bad experience in trail towns. If anything, I felt more welcomed than I did on the AT.
I think the kindness of strangers meant even more to me on the GET than it did on the AT (which is saying something!) because GET locals generally didn't have any idea whatsoever about what we'd been going through, and still they reached out to help. Pretty incredible.
You are 100% correct that hikers were not a common sight in most of the GET trail towns. But far from reacting with alarm, strangers were so incredibly wonderful, offering up places to stay, often offering us money (thinking we were homeless - no, we didn't accept!), being genuinely curious and friendly. We didn't have a single bad experience in trail towns. If anything, I felt more welcomed than I did on the AT.
I think the kindness of strangers meant even more to me on the GET than it did on the AT (which is saying something!) because GET locals generally didn't have any idea whatsoever about what we'd been going through, and still they reached out to help. Pretty incredible.
Thanks so much, Jo. Good to know!!!
full conditions
02-04-2016, 13:49
The AT is as pointed out, significantly different and shows the types of hikers. Those seeking what the AT 'was' would be, and are, seeking out what the GET is now. Also hiking it in the numbers of the original AT, in other words there are really a very small number of hikers seeking the original AT experience, and they have plenty of options, further diluting these hikers among many trails.
The AT has evolved way past that, to something IMHO much more wonderful and attracts many people, both hikers and angels, which has a much higher draw to it and connects many more people to a deep experience with nature, but in their case it also connects community, and that is the difference.
It is the connection of nature/self/community that is so attractive, it is a basic need of many people, it is a basic need of everyone to have connections, many need more then just a 'nature/self' only connection and why the current AT is so important to society as it is today and as it is evolving.
I just threw up in my mouth a little. The hoards of hikers you celebrate are unwittingly creating an unsustainable stress on the ecosystems of the Southern Appalachians. The Georgia Blue Ridge and Nantahala portions of the trail are literally being loved to death by this travelling party. Its heartbreaking to see what has happened to the hundreds of campsites along the first couple hundred miles of the AT. Every year it gets worse. At some point, the forest service along with the ATC will have to step in and curb the overuse. So regardless of the success of the NET effort, if the AT is to survive into the future without a ruined ecology we'll have to change the way we do business.
I just threw up in my mouth a little. The hoards of hikers you celebrate are unwittingly creating an unsustainable stress on the ecosystems of the Southern Appalachians. The Georgia Blue Ridge and Nantahala portions of the trail are literally being loved to death by this travelling party. Its heartbreaking to see what has happened to the hundreds of campsites along the first couple hundred miles of the AT. Every year it gets worse. At some point, the forest service along with the ATC will have to step in and curb the overuse. So regardless of the success of the NET effort, if the AT is to survive into the future without a ruined ecology we'll have to change the way we do business.
It's been 26 years since I walked the southern part of the AT. You make it sound pretty awful. I hope you're over-stating the case just a wee bit.
full conditions
02-04-2016, 14:25
It's been 26 years since I walked the southern part of the AT. You make it sound pretty awful. I hope you're over-stating the case just a wee bit.
It depends on the spot but I've been monitoring and cleaning the campsites around the Wesser Bald shelter for nearly two decades and the rhododendrons around the campsites have been so denuded over the years that it looks like it was done intentionally. That's the thing, the vegetation takes a beating every year because the hoard needs more and more camping sites which means more and more vegetation gets trampled and trimmed back. The trails to water sources multiply and widen; in most places there are no privies and words can't describe the effect of two thousand badly dug (or not dug) cat holes every year. You can still find plenty of undisturbed campsites by going off trail - so your experience can still be a very positive one (and this, apparently, is all Starchild gives a crap about) but the cumulative effect has become pretty depressing.
Consider more people are interested in the GET than one might assume. The GET, just like the AT, utilized/utilizes existing trail and footpaths to make up what is now labeled the AT. The GET is in that process. When we view interests in their entirety on the Pinhoti, Sheltowee, Cumberland, Finger lakes, Mid State, etc trails we are in essence showing some interest in the GET. It's what the GET and AT include.
When we travel the AT through all 14 states we are traveling on sections of trail that pre-existed what we now refer to as "THE AT." Even if the AT disappears it's my assumption folks are still going to hike the once AT labeled path through GSM NP, S NP, MT Rogers Nat Rec Area, White Mts, etc.
When we travel the AT through all 14 states we are traveling on sections of trail that pre-existed what we now refer to as "THE AT." Even if the AT disappears it's my assumption folks are still going to hike the once AT labeled path through GSM NP, S NP, MT Rogers Nat Rec Area, White Mts, etc.
At this point, some of the most important "magic" around the AT is the fact of its protection as a legal entity, with federal protection. Which means conservation, ie. limitations on development. National Scenic Trails Act or something like that. 1968. LBJ. I'm not sure what it would take to get similar protection for the GET. In today's political climate, it's not going to happen.
illabelle
02-04-2016, 15:04
It's been 26 years since I walked the southern part of the AT. You make it sound pretty awful. I hope you're over-stating the case just a wee bit.
While I haven't personally witnessed what full conditions described, I don't have any doubts about its truth. I've seen some really sad eroded non-AT trails in the Smokies. Heartbreaking.
On the other hand, I've hiked a few weeks behind the bubble (say April/May) and been impressed with how well the AT recovers in such a short time. Mother Nature is a powerful healer, and the maintainers are angels.
full conditions
02-04-2016, 15:06
At this point, some of the most important "magic" around the AT is the fact of its protection as a legal entity, with federal protection. Which means conservation, ie. limitations on development. National Scenic Trails Act or something like that. 1968. LBJ. I'm not sure what it would take to get similar protection for the GET. In today's political climate, it's not going to happen.
I'm inclined to agree but it is worth noting that the Obama administration did sign into law legislation that created national scenic trail status for the Pacific Northwest Trail, the Arizona Trail, and the New England Trail. Now, there was virtually no money allotted for trail protection but it is a start. Some groups like the Benton MacKaye Trail Association have expressed strong reservations about applying for national trail status believing that it will create more problems (eg landowner resistance) than it solves. Hard knowin'.
It depends on the spot but I've been monitoring and cleaning the campsites around the Wesser Bald shelter for nearly two decades ...
You have a tough job there, that's way too close to where the herd starts out. As it turns out, one of my worst days on the trail was when I stepped in someone's fresh droppings in Tellico gap. And running out of water on the way down that *&^% roller coaster on Wesser.
At this point, some of the most important "magic" around the AT is the fact of its protection as a legal entity, with federal protection. Which means conservation, ie. limitations on development. National Scenic Trails Act or something like that. 1968. LBJ. I'm not sure what it would take to get similar protection for the GET. In today's political climate, it's not going to happen.
It is very true that the moment in history that allowed the A.T. to be protected in the way that it is has passed. Politically speaking, the GET passes only through "red" counties (in the current sense), with the (narrower than you would think) exception of Centre County, PA (home to Penn State, not coincidentally, GET's longest single extant component path began as a project of Penn State Outing Club).
Consider the flip side of the coin, however. The need to engage with communities all along the GET's length could allow for more authentic encounters with the local population than within a bubble traveling along a synthetic "wilderness" strip.
The A.T. is mostly outside the Federally defined Appalachian Region, but the GET is almost entirely within it (yes, including the county of New York State).
... or one of the Finger Lakes region waterfalls?
It occurred to me over the weekend that Taughannock Falls (higher than Niagara) might be a worthy end point, with the Buttermilk Falls spur, crossing the City of Ithaca, and the Black Diamond rail trail. Perhaps that would offer an incentive for the additional two counties of overlay on the FLT, that would not incidentally also pass Watkins Glen. Might need a famed outdoor writer to help push that one though. ;)
Time Zone
02-21-2016, 19:25
I don't know about "people" in general, but I am interested in the GET. It's in the form of the Cumberland Trail, right in my backyard (Chattanooga). To me, it offers a much more accessible way to do section hiking, in areas less-spoiled by inconsiderate / careless hikers, which should also translate into fewer problems with wildlife. I am currently working on section-hiking the CT here in TN.
Let me hazard a guess about why the GET is not more popular. When many people want to achieve something or do something, they want it to be something recognizable to others. Something that will give them street cred. Sort of like "I ran in the Boston (or NYC) Marathon", instead of "I ran in a marathon" or even worse, "I ran 26.2 miles".
It is also similar to the formation of markets - that people gravitate toward a small number of markets because the best prices for buying/selling (or in hiking terms, services/views) are there.
In short, only a small % of people want to go someplace less well known to others, with fewer services for hikers, requiring more advanced planning, and sometimes with second-rate scenery or topography (even if it's still quite good), like where I recently hiked (http://cumberlandtrail.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/SnoopersView.jpg). 33755
no shelters, no hostels, no feeds, no shuttles, etc.
Inaccurate generalization.
The GET is an old-school, seat-of-your-pants, really-have-to-think, multi-month trek down the Appalachians. It is not the AT, not a superhighway, and I hope it always remains this way. The GET lives up to its name; it is truly the Great Eastern Trail.
We hikers who cut our teeth on the superhighway of the AT are spoiled. We learn to be takers, and that can be a very difficult habit to break. Any trail that is "less [insert descriptive adjective here]" is seen as less worthy and an excuse to complain. A trail's "community" is much, much larger than the hikers who traverse it. Off-the-cuff complaints by hikers are disrespectful to trail builders, trail maintainers, trail neighbors, and trail communities -- and cast a poor light on the hikers. This can't be said enough: trails don't maintain themselves. If hikers want great treadway, actions speak louder than words: volunteer. Volunteer. Volunteer.
Hikingjim
12-12-2016, 10:27
I have no reason why I wouldn't hike certain trails. But the better question is "why hike that specific trail?"
When you're planning your adventure, there are so many great options, so a trail has to stand out for some reason. There are many trails or sections that can be described as follows:
- nice woods
- fairly well maintained
- some road sections or other boring sections like a rail trail (multi-use)
If it doesn't stand out, I only hike it if it's right next to me and it's a convenience thing.
I have no reason why I wouldn't hike certain trails. But the better question is "why hike that specific trail?"
When you're planning your adventure, there are so many great options, so a trail has to stand out for some reason. There are many trails or sections that can be described as follows:
- nice woods
- fairly well maintained
- some road sections or other boring sections like a rail trail (multi-use)
If it doesn't stand out, I only hike it if it's right next to me and it's a convenience thing.
In Pennsylvania, the GET trails tend to be more scenic, higher/cooler, and definitely less crowded. One section (Standing Stone Trail) is the PA conservation department's Trail of the Year for 2016.
But the northernmost (in PA) GET (there Mid State Trail) register was found this fall to show 19 signatures per year. That register is a 10 minute hike in from a point that is a 10 minute drive from a 70 mph expressway (US 15/future I-99)
As for convenience, coming from Ontario, Canada the printed PA Mid State Trail maps use the same scale and units as the Bruce Trail maps (though the contour interval is quite different). How convenient is that? ;)
I much prefer less crowded trails, but is the GET finished? Are there road walks? Is there easy access to the TH's and are decent, affordable, trail guides available?
Yes, these questions come from a position of ignorance and are somewhat rhetorical...
handlebar
12-12-2016, 21:47
I can tell you for certain one of the weirdest and most unpleasant shelter experiences I ever had was on the Finger Lakes Trail.
I assume that the "weird and unpleasant experience" was the result of interaction with another hiker. I found all the shelters on the FLT where it coincides with the NCT to be really nice with the exception of one (Kimmie's Shelter) which had a leaky roof and a floor that was collapsing. When it started the predicted rain, I simply relocated to a dry portion of the floor that still was intact. Otherwise, all the FLT shelters I stayed in and passed by were really nice.
handlebar
12-12-2016, 22:00
... One of the problems I worry about is the occasional town stop. Along the AT corridor, ragged hikers are a common sight and probably don't elicit all that much response from the locals. Along the GET, or similar lesser-known trail, you don't have that advantage. Folks may react with alarm. I suppose it was like that in '76 along the AT as well. ... No one ever reacted with alarm on the lesser known trails that I've hiked. In fact, everyone was really kind. I had the experience of being offered money 3 times on the Florida Trail and once on the FLT when I took an alternate through Hornell NY to get a town breakfast. These offers (which I declined with the explanation that I was a long distance hiker and voluntarily homeless) came from people who appeared to be living from paycheck to paycheck. I found this helped me maintain my faith in the fundamental goodness of the fast majority of people. Along the FLT, I had numerous offers of water (there had been a drought and many of the springs and streams were dry), places to camp in people's yards, showers in their house. Most of these "trail angels" weren't aware that the Finger Lakes Trail passed by their homes.
I didn't have any offers of money on the sections of the GET that I've hiked (MST-PA, Standing Stone, and Tuscarora Trail, but I did have offers of a ride back to the trail from town and other spontaneous acts of kindness.
handlebar
12-12-2016, 22:11
Back to the question of why more people aren't interested. I think it's a focus on the iconic trails like the AT that everyone recognizes combined with the need to put forth a lot of effort to plan a long distance trek. The AT is THE famous long distance trail that everyone seems to know about. After hiking it I got the itch to do the triple crown and used some of the shorter trails as training. That's how I got to know the Allegheny Trail and Mid-State (PA) Trail. I personally enjoy planning long distance hikes while I'm cooped up in the house in the winter. (Well, I plan to get out over the winter to finish the final 200 miles of NCT in PA that I left due to hunting season). For my NY & PA chunk of the NCT, there were resources if one bothered to look. The map sets available from the Finger Lakes Trail Assoc were great. I combined these with excellent info from Central NY Hiking pages and the Trails Illustrated Maps of the Adirondacks. A little work with Google Maps provided resupply information in the towns. If the trail has an organization backing it, there will be a way to contact folks that care about the trail for beta. This was particularly helpful for the ALT and MST-PA.
FootPathOne
12-27-2016, 13:44
Personally, I can't seem to locate any campsites or shelters along the 70 mile long Standing Stone Trail, which is part of the Great Eastern Trail, which is a deterrent. Almost impossible to establish a trail community if there is no place to meet for the night, as has been successfully done along the Appalachian Trail.
Seatbelt
12-27-2016, 14:16
Personally, I can't seem to locate any campsites or shelters along the 70 mile long Standing Stone Trail, which is part of the Great Eastern Trail, which is a deterrent. Almost impossible to establish a trail community if there is no place to meet for the night, as has been successfully done along the Appalachian Trail.
Having hiked the entire trail{some parts of it many times} and camped a few places, I can assure you that there ar plenty of spots to camp. There also is a new shelter built recently just south of the Jack's Mtn fire tower on South Jacks Mtn.
The GET alternate route that goes through Williamsburg has long stretches with very little available camping also.
FootPathOne
12-27-2016, 14:39
I truly appreciate your rely! I'm planning to do plus/minus 15 miles per day in May 2017. Would you be able to suggest a few possibilities within a rough area of every 15 miles for me? The SST maps I've downloaded don't show any campsite / shelter symbols - I rather not deal with any potential conflicts with private owners or public officials. Thank you!
pilgrimskywheel
12-27-2016, 14:40
The first response nailed it. Because there is no free lunch program, AND - wait for it - no cult of personality to join. If a hiker hikes in the forest, and nobody hears about it - did it actually happen?
Seatbelt
12-27-2016, 14:55
I truly appreciate your rely! I'm planning to do plus/minus 15 miles per day in May 2017. Would you be able to suggest a few possibilities within a rough area of every 15 miles for me? The SST maps I've downloaded don't show any campsite / shelter symbols - I rather not deal with any potential conflicts with private owners or public officials. Thank you!
I will try to jog my memory, where are you starting and approx. what time of day?
I would hike it as an alternative to the AT (and all its craziness) in a heart beat if it were complete, well maintained and well marked.
I love the AT, but the crowds are just too much. I guess I've done portions of the GET when I section hiked the entire Pinhoti Trail this year.
Seatbelt
12-27-2016, 16:29
I truly appreciate your rely! I'm planning to do plus/minus 15 miles per day in May 2017. Would you be able to suggest a few possibilities within a rough area of every 15 miles for me? The SST maps I've downloaded don't show any campsite / shelter symbols - I rather not deal with any potential conflicts with private owners or public officials. Thank you!
Here are a few suggestions for camping;
Going NOBO, you could camp between Nine-Mile Run at the base of Cove Mtn several spots until you get to the Turnpike underpass. I have camped in this area and the northernmost part right after Vanderbuilt's Folly is marked as private land. I camped there anyway not noticing the sign with no problems.
Going north from there, it will be hard to find a spot for a while until you get to monument rock where some have camped on the short side trail to the monument(don't miss this--it is what the trail is named after)
From the monument north camping will be sparse because of the rocky terrain until you get to the Locke Valley Rd, one caould camp just before you get there or at the bottom of the mountain decent--lots of flat area there--although it is on State Gamelands.
Next you have roughly 6 miles of roadwalking from Meadow Gap to west of Three Springs, then a gravel road climb of 2 miles before you head off to the left to Roaring Run, a place to camp is right before you turn back right to enter the woods. Again State gamelands for several miles here.
The shelter is approx 9 miles north of Three Springs probly half of it on dirt/gravel roads and there are places one could camp the closer you get to the shelter.
North of the shelter, about 5 miles to Singers Run there a re a couple of decent places to camp and after you reach the top of Jacks Mtn the dirt road walk goes past several possible places. The closer you get to Windy Vista, the rockier the terrain.
I suppose one could camp at the base of Jacks Mtn before you get to the water Co reservoir.
At the top of the 1000 steps is the Dinky house and there is evidence that some camp there from time to time--it would be a good shelter from bad weather.
Topping out on Jacks Mtn, I saw a couple of places that people used closed to the radio towers.
I would avoid trying to plan on camping coming down the north side of Jack's Mtn toward PA655 lots of private property. Next camping will not be until you have climbed Stone mtn.
The trail from PA655 to Frew rd has several flat spots and is easy hiking, the best camping is probly after you reach Frew Rd(the 1st time) in the Rocky Ridge natural Area.
I do not remember any camping spots between Allensville Rd and Stone Valley Vista although there probly is a place or two--this is a very rocky/slow hiking ridge top with no water.
The descent into Greenwood Furnace State park has a spot or two one could use although camping is available in the park.
For more info, you could ask PAHiker is a trail maintainer for at least part of this trail and could help out with more info.
Hope this helps, Seatbelt.
FootPathOne
12-27-2016, 19:04
Awesome! Your information is just what I needed - hopefully the SST Org can update their maps with your suggestions, provided you do not mind. I'm limited to 1 week away from work for each occurrence, plus the AT in PA is known for heavy foot traffic, so the 70 miles of the SST appears to be an ideal alternative. Thanks again.
FootPathOne
12-27-2016, 19:16
My wife and I are going to camp at Cowans Gap State Park on the nights of May 13 and14, so I'm heading on the SST at first light on May 15.
FootPathOne
12-27-2016, 20:53
I found this link about a Standing Stone Trail Thru-Hike after a few search attempts on WhiteBlaze.net: https://endlessmountains.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/standing-stone-trail-day-1/
FootPathOne
12-27-2016, 21:13
The SST on WhiteBlaze.net: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/89781-Standing-Stone-Trail-Thru-hike?p=1368596#post1368596
No one ever reacted with alarm on the lesser known trails that I've hiked.
Wish I could say that. Even though I eventually received rides always from kind people while attempting to get a ride standing on the roadside with my thumb out and talking up a ride at overlooks, gas stations, TH's etc I definitely had much tougher times getting rides in some areas. Even in well know LT and AT areas in VT in some of the haughty toity towns with a high population of financially wealthy out of state home owners with a second or third "vacation" home in VT who were visiting from CT, MA, NY, etc I've had some difficult getting a ride experiences.
Difficult times hitching in CO after a CT thru from Durango back to Denver too.
I had a tough time getting a ride on a Pinhoti Tr Thru from Cave Spring back to single track when deciding to yellow blaze a narrow high speed 2 lane paved road walk segment without a hard or soft shoulder.
Most difficult, as Rafe pointed out, was hitchhiking back and forth between the trail and resupply pts on a recent little known Oregon Coast Tr thru.
Personally, I can't seem to locate any campsites or shelters along the 70 mile long Standing Stone Trail, which is part of the Great Eastern Trail, which is a deterrent. Almost impossible to establish a trail community if there is no place to meet for the night, as has been successfully done along the Appalachian Trail.
I've heard or thought this so many times on several trails including the GET. It never was the way I heard or thought.
Having hiked the entire trail{some parts of it many times} and camped a few places, I can assure you that there ar plenty of spots to camp. There also is a new shelter built recently just south of the Jack's Mtn fire tower on South Jacks Mtn.
The GET alternate route that goes through Williamsburg has long stretches with very little available camping also.
As said +1 Although established CS's or shelters aren't known or widely depicted this IMHO is what makes a hike better...less unknowns which each hiker has to account for. It's a hike in the truer spirit of adventure. :)
FootPathOne
12-28-2016, 11:26
Agreed. So long as there are obvious signs adjacent to the route with "Keep Out", or equivalent in order to avoid potential conflicts with the land owners, then the "spirit of adventure" can roam free without the risks of legal complications, a.k.a., CYA :-)
Seatbelt
12-28-2016, 11:51
Awesome! Your information is just what I needed - hopefully the SST Org can update their maps with your suggestions, provided you do not mind. I'm limited to 1 week away from work for each occurrence, plus the AT in PA is known for heavy foot traffic, so the 70 miles of the SST appears to be an ideal alternative. Thanks again.Most of these areas you can hike for miles without seeing anyone. The exceptions would be around Greenwood Furnace park, the 1000 steps area, Maplewood, Three Springs, the Monument area and Cowans Gap park. Water can be a concern, be sure you filter the water at the base of the 1000 steps and some of the creeks are dry at times. I love this trail, some parts are quite difficult, some parts are easy, lots of good views, but mostly what I like is how remote it is, especially compared to the AT. Enjoy your hike!
. . . If a hiker hikes in the forest, and nobody hears about it - did it actually happen?
1. www.gethiking.net (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COAF2bWyctk&index=13&list=UUV_wyF2BdLl1Ql-6pk2E1QA)
2. https://www.facebook.com/kathy.finch.5473
rocketsocks
12-28-2016, 23:35
If a hiker hikes in the forest, and nobody hears about it - did it actually happen?
Happens all the time ;)