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Under what conditions do you wear the micro spikes. I am planning on bringing them and only wear them when there is ice around my hiking path here in Chicago.
Icy conditions. I'm a trail / ultra running and found that a little snow offers enough traction, but ice offers none. Micro spikes, or sheet metal screws for your trail runner shoes work great under icy conditions.
rocketsocks
02-09-2016, 14:28
Any incline with the smallest amount of ice can be trip home...a show stopper.
What if the trail (AT) is frozen. should you wear them to try and get some traction on the uphill climbs.
nsherry61
02-09-2016, 14:52
Off pavement, in icy and even snowy conditions, micro-spikes can rock. They improve traction, even when just walking on snow, so you can travel faster with less effort if pushing off with your forefoot on slippery snow is slowing you down and/or making you walking more awkward.
Micro-spikes are at their best when they are walking on crusty or icy snow or packed snow where they bite well and vastly improve stability and forward momentum.
Micro-spikes work pretty well, even on hard water ice that is not too steep. When it gets steep many people opt for classic 10-point type crampons.
If you sharpen your micro-spikes a bit pointer than the factory sharpness, they will bite hard water ice better and allow surprisingly steep ascents on water ice with confidence.
Micro-spikes are not good on pavement (i.e. icy roads and sidewalks). They are too aggressive and lumpy under foot.
Where I have found micro-pikes to truly fail, where longer point crampons become highly desirable, if not necessary, is in real granular snow or ice where the short spikes grab onto what they can but then the granular snow or ice slides on itself because your points don't dig down deep enough to stabilize that granular substrate.
Also, micro-spikes tend to fail when there is shallow snow over a crust such that the snow fills up the spikes and then the snow-filled spikes slide on the crust underneath.
And finally, of course, you can't front-point with micro-spikes. Duh.
My micro-spikes, along with my back-country skis are my favorite winter gear! They allow such incredible access to incredible areas with so little additional effort.
garlic08
02-09-2016, 15:47
...or sheet metal screws for your trail runner shoes....
This works surprisingly well with a little practice on where to put the screws. I got it right the second time. I keep an old pair of trail runners around now, all screwed up. Of course they're not as aggressive as spikes, but for a low to zero cost and weight solution (if you happen to have the screws and a nut driver), you can hardly go wrong. I heard about some PCT thrus using this trick one year, and it's a good one.
It's just excess weight on the AT imo. Even Yaktraks are.
rocketsocks
02-09-2016, 16:25
It's just excess weight on the AT imo. Even Yaktraks are.
Yup, until ya need em.
Traveler
02-09-2016, 16:31
It's just excess weight on the AT imo. Even Yaktraks are.
I would not consider YakTraks for trail use, ever. A lot of people (me included) swear by microspikes in winter conditions. But, as you point there are choices. One can choose to save a little weight and not bring them and hope for the best. Many do.
Myself, I find the risk analysis is pretty clear. The potential of ice forming on the AT from November through March is significantly on north facing slopes to moderate on southern facing slopes. The risk of falling on ice without traction devices is extremely high if not nearly certain, the consequence of the failure (falling) is very high, up to and including not ever being able to walk properly again.
Easy choice choice for me. A pound in the pack is a very small price compared to the potential price tags.
rocketsocks
02-09-2016, 16:38
Yup, I think those yaks are about useless, but for walkin' around town on black ice, then they're pretty good. Kahtoolas underfoot on a hard road surface is miserable walking, and that's where those sheet metal screws shine.
Hillsound Trail crampons are a bit more aggressive than Microspikes. My gf used them to walk up a frozen cascade over some ledges a couple weeks ago. I opted to walk around the waterfall. Usually, if i need more than the Hillsounds, I turn around. No sense sliding to my death.
squeezebox
02-09-2016, 16:49
Any thing to say about different brands?
I talked my ex into getting a pair and a cheap pair of hiking poles after her hip replacement.
Do you know of anyone who should have that kind of set-up for around town?
It's just excess weight on the AT imo. Even Yaktraks are.
For a typical April-to-September nobo through hike, I'd agree. In winter I'd take them for sure. Definitely needed last weekend in the White Mountains. Not much snow but lots of ice.
It's just excess weight on the AT imo. Even Yaktraks are.
People do hike the AT in the Winter, and some even use full on mountaineering crampons!
Hillsound Trail crampons are a bit more aggressive than Microspikes. My gf used them to walk up a frozen cascade over some ledges a couple weeks ago. I opted to walk around the waterfall. Usually, if i need more than the Hillsounds, I turn around. No sense sliding to my death.
Those Hillsounds are standard equipment among White Mountain winter peakbaggers. I considered using mine last weekend but squeaked by with the spikes. It was touch and go for a bit. My hiking partner used hers for part of the trip.
nsherry61
02-09-2016, 19:19
Hillsound Trail crampons are a bit more aggressive than Microspikes.
Actually, current model Kahtoola micro spikes have pretty much the same "agrgession" as the Hillsound Trail crampons, but, the Kahtoolas stay on your feet better, as described well in a sectionhiker.com review of the Hillsounds. The older, Kahtoolas did have fewer and shorter spikes than the current Hillsounds. Because of the aggessiveness and spike stability of my current Kahtoolas, I am more comfortable on more extreme conditions than my friend who switches from his Hillsounds to his full crampons on climbs where I am happy with just my micro spikes.
Actually, current model Kahtoola micro spikes have pretty much the same "agrgession" as the Hillsound Trail crampons, but, the Kahtoolas stay on your feet better, as described well in a sectionhiker.com review of the Hillsounds. The older, Kahtoolas did have fewer and shorter spikes than the current Hillsounds. Because of the aggessiveness and spike stability of my current Kahtoolas, I am more comfortable on more extreme conditions than my friend who switches from his Hillsounds to his full crampons on climbs where I am happy with just my micro spikes.
The new Microspikes do have a more agressive spike than the older version, and have 12, vs. 11 spikes. I never experienced the issues Phil on Sectionhiker talks about. Im wondering if his was the wrong size for his foot?
nsherry61
02-09-2016, 20:39
I never experienced the issues Phil on Sectionhiker talks about. Im wondering if his was the wrong size for his foot?
I watch my friend's Hillsound's heel spikes rattle around loosly when he walks ahead of me. I haven't watched his come completely off, but we haven't done descents like Phil described and I do have way more confidence wearing my Kahtoolas than he does his Hillsounds. And, the Kahtoolas don't need that darn toe strap to stay secure. It would be fun to try different ones on each for for a hike and compare. Hmm.
SkeeterPee
02-10-2016, 00:28
Are micro spikes sturdier than yaktrax? I had a pare of yaktrax that worked well on snow/ice on trails. I wore then when running, but all it took to break them was one small root that snagged their rubber frame. Do micro spikes stand up to rocks/roots etc?
Kahtoola Microspikes hold up much better than Yaktrax from what I've seen. Though I've seen them both fail.
Traveler
02-10-2016, 05:39
Are micro spikes sturdier than yaktrax? I had a pare of yaktrax that worked well on snow/ice on trails. I wore then when running, but all it took to break them was one small root that snagged their rubber frame. Do micro spikes stand up to rocks/roots etc?
The difference between microspikes and Yaktrax is designed use. Yaktrax are designed for urban/suburban use in going from point A to point B without slipping in slush, light snow, and ice. Microspikes are designed for trail use specifically, to walk on ice/snow covered rock, frozen mud and steep slopes. Microspikes are far more sturdy than Yaktrax, standing up to any surface I have used them on, including mud, gravel, rock, hard ice, packed snow, and pine duff/loose dirt when moving between snowfields.
Microspikes will wear down when used in gravel and on rock, but it takes a lot of that to start denigrating their bite, they can be sharpened if you are so inclined. They sometimes "snag" as they extend the bottom of your boot/shoe by about a half inch, your brain may not figure out you have to add that half inch to each foot fall for a while and you can "snag" tops of rocks and roots until you get used to them. Frankly, I would not be in any forests in winter conditions without them.
Frankly, I would not be in any forests in winter conditions without them.
So much this. Way too much ice in the mountains to not use them.
Old Hiker
02-10-2016, 08:12
Seeing this thread reminded me: gotta get rid of these before my hike starts:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/116801-NEW-Kahtoola-MICROspikes-Footwear-Traction-2015-16-55
garlic08
02-10-2016, 09:33
Are micro spikes sturdier than yaktrax? I had a pare of yaktrax that worked well on snow/ice on trails. I wore then when running, but all it took to break them was one small root that snagged their rubber frame. Do micro spikes stand up to rocks/roots etc?
In my experience there's no comparison. Though Yaktrax are roughly half the price, microspikes will last at least ten times, maybe close to a hundred times longer, on trails. The first rock will pretty much ruin Yaktrax. I've yet to harm a pair of Kahtoolas, but a buddy who runs dozens of ten-mile days a season in them in the foothills of the Rockies gets at least two or three seasons out of one pair.
If you are hiking in winter (ie there is even the threat of snow or ice) bring micro spikes!
Longchuan
02-10-2016, 11:22
I haven't had much need for my spikes so far this winter. But when I do need them, they make the difference between going 2.5 mph up hill and sliding in place. Would definitely suggest having the spikes in winter.
Snowleopard
02-10-2016, 16:29
There's more than one Hillsound traction product. The Hillsound Trail Crampon PROgets good reviews (see sectionhiker.com); it's more aggressive than than microspikes, more like a real crampon. I have a Camp trail crampon that is almost identical and they're good when microspikes don't cut it (steeper, harder thicker ice). Perhaps they've improved the Hillsound Trail Crampon (not Pro) since I looked last, but they were not as good as microspikes.
If a fall will hurt or kill you, then none of these are safe -- get real crampons. There are trails in the White Mts. that aren't safe in any trail crampons, but I don't think they're on the AT. I think a hiker fell down Kings Ravine a couple years ago and survived, but don't count on being that lucky.
I've been thinking of getting some Yaktraks for going from my door to my car but wouldn't hike in them (I'm not sure I'd walk to the corner to get my mail in them if it's icy). They seem less damaging to floors than microspikes.
Yup, until ya need em.
There's tons of stuff you could "possibly" need.
Usually it ends up all over the place at Gooch Gap shelter and left behind.
[QUOTE=Snow leopard;2041189
I've been thinking of getting some Yaktraks for going from my door to my car but wouldn't hike in them (I'm not sure I'd walk to the corner to get my mail in them if it's icy). They seem less damaging to floors than microspikes.[/QUOTE]
Both have their place but MicroSpikes have more places. I threaded suspension line through the coils of my YT to protect the rubber; don't need to with the MS.
You will damage hard wood floors with either - no, I did not, I have some sense.
I wore Yaktrax on my hiking boots in snow up Mt. St Helens in May four years ago.... complete snow cover from 5k to top.
As for AT... your typical Mid March - Oct hiker does NOT need Microspikes or Yaks.
If you wanna hike in winter at high elevations, then sure.
peakbagger
02-10-2016, 18:24
RE the difference between Kahtoola Microspikes and Hilsounds Trail Crampons are subtle but for ice the Hillsounds are superior. I have both in two different sizes. The points on the Hillsounds are part of three small plates that the chains tie to, if you step down, the spikes dig in far better than the Kahtoolas. On the Kahtoolas, the spikes can and do roll when on ice. I was out with a friend on Layayette last weekend and it was noticeable his Hillsounds were doing a lot better than my Kahtoolas.
Many of the Meetup groups that frequent the whites ban Yaktracks, they are just too problem prone.
I am curious about reports of Hillsounds hanging loose. That appears to be a sizing issue and that is very much impacted by the boot. The key thing to the longevity of both are that the chains should be tight up against the boot, if you hear jingling it means something is not right. The rubber needs to sit up past the rand of the boot which is the widest part of the sole. If the spikes are undersized, the rubber sits too low and the connection between the chain and the rubber can get pinched which is almost a guarantee that there will be broken rubber or broken chains. An oversized pair will naturally slip down and get caught on things. The Velcro strap that someone complained about over the instep is a major plus for me to the point where I have one fitted to my Kahtoolas. The strap keeps the chains tight and the rubber up over the rand. Folks will on occasion step out of Kahtoolas and not even notice it. I have found them on the trail and also I have seen folks get them pulled off by scrub. Hillsound now sells an identical product to Kahtoola called the Freestep 6 for less money.
I wore Yaktrax on my hiking boots in snow up Mt. St Helens in May four years ago.... complete snow cover from 5k to top.
As for AT... your typical Mid March - Oct hiker does NOT need Microspikes or Yaks.
If you wanna hike in winter at high elevations, then sure.
So...the OP asked what occasion would he use them, and it being Winter and all, people need them. Kind of presumptuous stating they are unnecessary weight and to leave them at home. I was using Microspikes and snowshoes in May last year. It really depends on where you are located and where you are hiking. The White Mountains start icing up in September. It can snow any month of the year.
Wise Old Owl
02-10-2016, 20:43
Wow $50? how about three? please do not forget that boots do not last forever, with that in mind a 1/4 inch Hex flat sunk into the bottom about a 1/2 inch in will provide great ice cutting ability
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us82woC7RMM
WILLIAM HAYES
02-10-2016, 21:00
never used them unlikely you will need them just added weight
Wise Old Owl
02-10-2016, 22:55
I don't follow - a few ounces on a winter hike? vs a whole unit of equipment
So...the OP asked what occasion would he use them, and it being Winter and all, people need them. Kind of presumptuous stating they are unnecessary weight and to leave them at home. I was using Microspikes and snowshoes in May last year. It really depends on where you are located and where you are hiking. The White Mountains start icing up in September. It can snow any month of the year.
I was speaking in regards to a typical thru hike on the AT. Nobody, well basically nobody, is starting their thru hike in the Whites in May. The mountains in Northern Georgia and up to the Smokies are not that bad March-April that you need spikes. I speak from experience.
You are nitpicking. It's added weight. I hiked the Northern Georgia mountains in mid March 2010 and there was maybe a few stray snowdrifts.... but the trails, even on Blood Mountain, Mt Albert.... even Rocky and Indian were clear. The smokies were completely passable late March/Early April.
If you wanna hike in the snow, by all means, take microspikes. If you wanna take hike Mt Washington in the winter.... please use real crampons. I'm hiking the John Muir Trail this year mid June and I will be taking my micros for higher altitudes..... but the Sierra Nevadas are a completely different beast than the AT.
Also.... don't let Microspikes give you a false sense of security....
Microspikes will not save your ass on rocks with sheer ice.
Another Kevin
02-11-2016, 17:48
I live Up North. In a typical winter (this year has been atypically warm) I just LIVE in microspikes. I'm using them whenever I'm not using other traction gear (snowshoes or crampons), and often carry them from mid-October to mid-May. I even wear them in town on bad-weather days.
Also.... don't let Microspikes give you a false sense of security....
Microspikes will not save your ass on rocks with sheer ice.
No. If you're going to tackle a scrambly trail in serious ice, you need ice axe and crampons.
Here's a post from an incident in the Catskills last weekend that the original poster (George Dagis) gave me permission to share:
Two days ago I climbed Blackhead Mountain from the BLUE trail on the north-eastern part of the mountain. I had my full crampons on as I was attempting the top 400 feet (I had been wearing microspikes before that but they were obviously insufficient for this section). As it began to get really very steep I edged toward the side of the icy gully when the root I was holding on to broke. I slipped out onto the 40 degree solid ice and luckily grabbed onto a small rock before I flew down the icy slope and off of the cliff. I was in SERIOUS trouble because there was NO way to stand up and get my spikes into the ice. I couldn't kneel since the ice was too slippery. I couldn't ROLL because of the same reason. I had no ice ax with me so I couldn't get up using that. Only the SIDE of my boots were meeting the ice which did me absolutely no good. It looked like I was doomed for sure.
The ONLY way I was able to actually make it out alive was to literally PULL my entire body (And pack . . . I couldn't get it OFF of me without letting go of that rock) about 5 or 6 feet to a safe area with the two points of one of my crampons as I anchored alternately with the two points on the other foot's toes. How I managed the strength to do THAT is beyond me. If I would have lost contact with the points on either crampon it was over. I am so fortunate.
What I am trying to say is that I wouldn't attempt Blackhead from this side at this time. The other side was FINE. Black Dome was totally clean! No problems ANYWHERE in the range except here and BOY was it problematic. Secondly, whenever I think I may need crampons I will ALWAYS carry an ice ax with me. I suggest you consider doing the same thing. Please don't ever put yourself through the abject terror that I found myself in. Be safe! :)
For what it's worth, the ledge on that mountain where where everyone changes from snowshoes to crampons looks like this. If you click through (https://plus.google.com/+JonStelling/posts/ErhP3GNuZox?pid=6095804738723434802&oid=116272893441429981618) to the full size image and zoom in, you can see that I have an ice axe on my pack. The crampon bag is on the other side. That's what those little loops of webbing that almost every pack has at the bottom are for, by the way.
The Southerners just don't quite grasp that that the picture was taken on a day of GOOD weather. The ridge falls off VERY steeply to the one side, and there are spots where it's two thousand feet down. There was about a five foot snowpack before we got up to that wind-swept knife edge. This was a little over a year ago. There hasn't been any snow like that this winter - we've hardly had any winter to speak of this year. But there's been a lot of rain, and a lot of ice as a result.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xvyzSzc_Hhw/VJimHOfA0TI/AAAAAAAAloI/su5ms3mrDBw/s640-no/DSC_3880.JPG (https://plus.google.com/+JonStelling/posts/ErhP3GNuZox?pid=6095804738723434802&oid=116272893441429981618)
I was speaking in regards to a typical thru hike on the AT. Nobody, well basically nobody, is starting their thru hike in the Whites in May. The mountains in Northern Georgia and up to the Smokies are not that bad March-April that you need spikes. I speak from experience.
You are nitpicking. It's added weight. I hiked the Northern Georgia mountains in mid March 2010 and there was maybe a few stray snowdrifts.... but the trails, even on Blood Mountain, Mt Albert.... even Rocky and Indian were clear. The smokies were completely passable late March/Early April.
If you wanna hike in the snow, by all means, take microspikes. If you wanna take hike Mt Washington in the winter.... please use real crampons. I'm hiking the John Muir Trail this year mid June and I will be taking my micros for higher altitudes..... but the Sierra Nevadas are a completely different beast than the AT.
You see, its useful added weight. A sleeping bag and quilt are added weight. You don't propose leaving those behind, do you? Tent? Cookpot? Stove? Its all added weight.
As far as someone not doing a through hike in the Whites in Winter, there is someone doing that right now. In the Winter, but he's probably wearing full on Crampons at this point. So just to discount something because its added weight is foolishness.
I wonder how those mountains will look in the next few days? Think they might be a tad icy? There are people who have already hiked through GA this year. Im sure a few of them had wished they were wearing microspikes.
nsherry61
02-11-2016, 20:05
. . . the Whites in Winter, there is someone doing that right now. In the Winter, but he's probably wearing full on Crampons at this point. . .
I'll take that bet. I'll bet the Real Hiking Viking made it through the Whites with snowshoes and micro-spikes, no real crampons. I wonder if we'd get an answer if we asked him on his facebook feed? There are definitely a few sketchy places along the AT in the Whites, but I doubt they really pose much of a serious problem for micro-spikes on the feet of someone with quite a bit of winter trail experience.
Trail up Wildcat is pretty damn steep.
checked his facebook page. Hes already in Mass