View Full Version : Kelty Expedition packs
Casey & Gina
02-10-2016, 14:04
I actually have no idea what this pack is I got, although it was advertised as a Kelty Expedition pack. It was cheap on eBay and I wanted to get my hands on a Kelty metal cam buckle for the hip belt. It's a really interesting pack though, much more voluminous than my Super Tioga. In addition to having a very large sleeping bag compartment on the bottom, it has a middle compartment between that and the main upper compartment, plus the side pockets and front pocket like the Tioga does.
The frame is rather different from the Tioga - in addition to being taller, it also has a curve to it such that at the top it comes more over your head, I imagine to center the weight better over you. I like that design aspect. The shoulder belts on the Tioga can be adjusted to have the tops at different heights, whereas they are fixed on this pack, although they can be moved inward or outward. There is no sternum strap, but the design is such that it doesn't really feel like it needs it.
The padding in the hip and shoulder belts has hardened up to a rock-like consistency, and in fact broke apart in several places when I tried bending it. So it's not the most comfortable. Even so, I loaded it up with 40lbs of gear and it fit well enough and comfortably enough aside from the broken rocks digging into my hips. The shoulder belts attach to the frame a few inches above my shoulders, but since there are no "load lifter" (though they do the opposite on external frame packs) straps, I think that this isn't a problem - the shoulder belts basically just keep the frame against your back and the weight sits on the hips. I think with new padding it would be comfortable.
Anyways, I'm curious if anybody knows more about these.
33621
I used to have a super Tioga as well. I had contacted Kelty directly for replacement parts and they were great at getting me what I needed. I would be surprised if they weren't able to help out with your new pack.
Casey & Gina
02-10-2016, 14:24
I used to have a super Tioga as well. I had contacted Kelty directly for replacement parts and they were great at getting me what I needed. I would be surprised if they weren't able to help out with your new pack.
Yeah, I'm contemplating that. I don't know exactly what it is though. I am also not sure I can justify carrying such a voluminous pack. I basically just got it for parts, but it is quite interesting.
I still use a massive pack (by today's standards. Only because I don't like strapping things to the outside. Have never filled it, also enjoy the peace of mind that I have the space in case it is needed.
Turtle-2013
02-17-2016, 09:10
It is a Kelty Serac ... I have one that looks just like it. I purchased it new in 1977 for my second trip to the Colorado Rockies after we saw a Ranger using one the year before. I was in the market since my first frame pack was being held together with patches. I still have it in my "museum" :D ... since those days I have gone lightweight and a 6+ pound backpack is not compatible with "lightweight". Hull is right that with the Serac you didn't have to strap thing on the outside, but I still did ... both my tent poles and pad strapped on the back. Now I use a 50L bag, and nothing straps on the outside :D .... Let me know if you would like any more info about the Serac.
Casey & Gina
02-17-2016, 13:21
It is a Kelty Serac ... I have one that looks just like it. I purchased it new in 1977 for my second trip to the Colorado Rockies after we saw a Ranger using one the year before. I was in the market since my first frame pack was being held together with patches. I still have it in my "museum" :D ... since those days I have gone lightweight and a 6+ pound backpack is not compatible with "lightweight". Hull is right that with the Serac you didn't have to strap thing on the outside, but I still did ... both my tent poles and pad strapped on the back. Now I use a 50L bag, and nothing straps on the outside :D .... Let me know if you would like any more info about the Serac.
Yes, the more information the merrier! I *really* like the pack, especially after test-loading it up with all our gear (see 5th picture below). Is it still possible to get replacement shoulder straps and hip belts from Kelty? I E-mailed them last week but never heard back.
It looks like I could transplant the Tioga straps & belt, though I'd need to drill new holes in one of the cross bars on the Serac frame. The only concern I have is that the one that would need the holes added is not welded to the outer bars, but rather held in place by plastic knobs, so I am not confident it would handle the load properly. I'm not sure how critical it is to have two upper attachment points for each shoulder strap versus one. I really like how the frame has thin center rods running all the way down, which ensures airflow all along the back. With the Tioga, stuff in the bottom compartment can press against your back.
As for weight, the pack actually weighs in at only 5.5lbs, which is lighter than the 6.25lb of my Tioga, and rather a bit lighter than some of the internal frame load haulers I've tried out.
I took some more pictures:
3367433675336773367833679336803368133682
Casey & Gina
02-17-2016, 15:21
While we're on the subject, any ideas what this one is? Not mine, but another that was on eBay a while ago. The frame and shoulder straps look the same as my Serac, but it is a rather different design. More side pocket area, nylon zippers instead of metal, and internal zipper for a separator between the main compartments:
336833368433685
Casey & Gina
02-17-2016, 15:25
I gave Kelty a call and they said they don't have any stock in right now, but will have a bunch of new stock for replacement shoulder straps and hip belts for external frame packs in June, so to try back then. I didn't get so far as to mention which backpack or the style, so I guess I'll try to sort that out later. in the meantime, maybe I'll try cutting some slits and replacing the padding in my existing ones.
Casey & Gina
02-17-2016, 15:48
I found some information I thought I'd relay here:
The Backpacker frame had 4 cross members and Mountaineer frame had 5 cross members. The mountaineer frame is on the left and the backpacking frame is on the right in the image below:
https://dpcr19kltm61a.cloudfront.net/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1328304412_56400.jpg
In 1973 the Serac was introduced. This came on the Mountaineer frame only with an extension crossbar, was a full length bag, with a separate bottom compartment meant for a sleeping bag. The extension bar could be extended higher. It came with 4 external side pockets, a front pocket under the flap, attachment patches and an ice ax loop.
Sometime in the 80’s a larger Serac Expedition was introduced, with a 7,000ci (115 liter) capacity. It is shown on the left in the picture below, in comparison with the earlier Serac (like mine) on the right:
https://dpcr19kltm61a.cloudfront.net/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1394533637_100559.jpg
One question - Each shoulder strap attaches to a metal loop pinned on near the bottom of each side of the frame. About an inch below the hole for the pin that holds that on is another hole drilled. I don't see any purpose in moving the lower attachment for the shoulder straps down, so what is the purpose of those bottom holes?
Casey & Gina
02-17-2016, 15:53
While we're on the subject, any ideas what this one is? Not mine, but another that was on eBay a while ago. The frame and shoulder straps look the same as my Serac, but it is a rather different design. More side pocket area, nylon zippers instead of metal, and internal zipper for a separator between the main compartments.
To answer my own question, I now think that is a Serac Expedition. Shame I didn't bid a little higher on it, as it sold for $48.
Casey & Gina
02-17-2016, 16:18
https://dpcr19kltm61a.cloudfront.net/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1327108695_55574.jpg
https://dpcr19kltm61a.cloudfront.net/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1327431176_55812.jpg
https://dpcr19kltm61a.cloudfront.net/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1327431257_55813.jpg
My packbag has an "XL" label, not sure of the frame size, will measure later. I suppose it may well be too big for my torso length, given that I the shoulder straps seemed to attach above my shoulders! But then, in the above images, the hip belt is sitting much lower than I'm accustomed to, I guess it is designed to be used rather differently?
Kaptainkriz
02-17-2016, 20:23
On my Kelty, small pack on mountaineer frame, one hole I used for the shoulder strap and one I used for the belt webbing. They could share a hole...or not. When I got my replacement pads, the base of the shoulder strap webbing is stitched to the back of the belt...leaving one hole free (actually the new belt uses both holes). I did drill holes in the top rail for the load lifters.
3369233693
One question - Each shoulder strap attaches to a metal loop pinned on near the bottom of each side of the frame. About an inch below the hole for the pin that holds that on is another hole drilled. I don't see any purpose in moving the lower attachment for the shoulder straps down, so what is the purpose of those bottom holes?
Turtle-2013
02-17-2016, 21:46
Sounds like you took the name and went down a rather lucrative trail of information. I have the top bar for mine too. It comes up out of the top of the frame about 6" and across. Like three sides of a rounded rectangle. With it in place it stick way above you head and you can lash stuff on top too ... as if it doesn't already have enough room... ; ) I regularly carried 43 to 45#, not counting water. It carries it well ... but ... it is still a lot of weight....
Kaptainkriz
02-17-2016, 22:01
I've got a White Cloud 6500 working it's way to me...hope to have it early next week. I just realized 6500 cubic inches is 106 liters. :eek:
Casey & Gina
02-18-2016, 10:03
Well, according to the pictures I posted above, the extra-large mountaineering frame has dimensions of 15.5" x 32.5". I measured mine at 16" x 35", edge to edge but not counting the removable top bar. I think that Kelty must be measuring from the centers of the outermost tubes to get smaller dimensions...
In any case, my packbag has an "XL" tag, so I imagine it is also an XL frame. That's unfortunate, since I'm only 5'11" and I believe that makes it too big for me. I put the pack all back together and tried wearing it the way the instructions posted above show, with the hip belt down farther, below the iliac crest. It felt odd but seemed to carry weight alright, and may well end up being more comfortable than belts that sit higher up. Hard to say for sure without trying it on a trip, but that part wasn't the problem. The problem is that even with the pack sitting low like that, the shoulder belts still attach above my shoulders, which is not what I'd expect nor what is shown in the last picture I posted above...
3370133702
So, I'll have to keep my eyes open for a size Medium (I presume) Serac - which don't exactly appear for sale too often. Does anybody know what the relationship is between the Kelty frame sizes and torso length ranges?
jacknoir
08-17-2018, 20:34
Hey, Just tuning into this old thread. I have a green 1973-74 Kelty Serac (not expedition). I'm trying to find out what the listed capacity was. They haven't been able to tell me thru Kelty customer service. Does anyone know, or have an old catalog or brochure with the specs?
Casey & Gina
08-17-2018, 22:57
Time has passed! Since I last wrote here, I acquired two Medium frame green Kelty Seracs (regular not Expedition), one each for my wife and I, and they are AMAZING packs - our default and most used packs. I don't have any newer packs anymore except Mystery Ranch Terraplanes, which we use when we need to haul a ton of stuff. The old Kelty's are great but I'd like to get some new packbacks made in the original design with newer beefier (500-1000D) fabric and better quality stitching... We also managed to acquire not one but two Kelty Ultra Tiogas, and those are fun too, but the design and size of the Seracs is really the most ideal for most occasions. I use the harness from newer Kelty Cache Hauler, which makes it more comfortable with lots of weight, but the shape and layout f the frame and pack bag is just perfect and makes backpacking a real joy. Most of the newer internal frame packs are, in my opinion, junk in comparison and I'm sorry for wasting so much time and money on them in the past. The Terraplane is an excellent exception to this rule, and I'd be intrigued to try an old Dana Design Terraframe if I can ever find one.
What size Bozeman built ArcFlex Terraplane are you looking for?
Wayne
jacknoir
08-18-2018, 12:13
So Casey, in terms of volume, how does your Super Tioga compare to the medium Serac?
I'm trying to get as close an estimation as I can of cubic inches or liters volume.
Casey & Gina
08-18-2018, 12:44
Not sure of volume, and don't think I have the Super Tioga anymore, but the Serac is bigger internally as it has the bottom sleeping bag compartment.
Wayne I am happy as could be with the Mystery Ranch Terraplanes, but would be curious to try a Terraframe, which was an external frame version of the Terraplane. It may not be all that great though, no idea...
No worries. I’ll just use the Terraplane and put the money saved into gas in the car to go places.
Didn’t know there was a Terraframe. I wonder if it was before or after K2 nuked Dana Designs and Garuda Tents?
Cheers!
Wayne
colorado_rob
08-18-2018, 13:55
Interesting pack, that DD Terrplane.... I bought one used, about 15 years ago, $100, for a long mountaineering expedition (Denali). I think it was about 7.5 pounds, and I was just getting in to going lightweight. I was able to cut out well over a pound of nonsense from that pack with no real loss in functionality. I think I have that pound+ saved in a ziplock, have to go check, but I vaguely remember getting it down to 6 pounds flat, not too crazy for a heavy-duty, large, extremely supportive pack. Huge too-long straps everywhere, silly thick metal zipper pulls, and that nonsensical waste-belt thing built into the lid (for using as separate pack).
I just found an old pic of it sitting in the snow (my buddy in the pic, not me)....
Anyway, I gave it away a few years later to a guy who took pride in going heavy. He might still have it, but I know he quit using it because he got over going heavy, like most folks eventually do (except on here). I wonder if I can get it back and re-give it away on here? I'll check.
Tipi Walter
08-18-2018, 14:17
Not sure of volume, and don't think I have the Super Tioga anymore, but the Serac is bigger internally as it has the bottom sleeping bag compartment.
Wayne I am happy as could be with the Mystery Ranch Terraplanes, but would be curious to try a Terraframe, which was an external frame version of the Terraplane. It may not be all that great though, no idea...
I might as well join the conversation as I have experience with several of the packs mentioned. I've done trips with the Kelty Ultra Tioga, the Dana Terraplane, the Kelty 50th Anniversary, and several Mystery Ranch G series packs. (The newer MR Terraplane is basically a rip off of their G5000 pack).
43511
This is a pic you posted earlier in the thread and the Kelty on the right is their 50th Anniversary pack, barely mentioned in this thread.
43512
Here's my buddy Hootyhoo borrowing my Kelty 50th for a trip---a unique kind of pack.
43513
Here's two of the packs mentioned---the Kelty Ultra Tioga on the left and the Terraplane on the right. (The Dana Terraplane!)
43514
The Dana Terraplane was my load hauler for many years before switching to Mystery Ranch and their G series packs.
43515
The main question I have for Casey/Gina is this: Does your new MR Terraplane use plastic hipbelt stiffeners on the outside of the belt as "wings"? This pic shows the wings on my G7000 pack which I cut off due to the outside of the hipbelt digging into my hip flesh due to the padding failing, allowing these hard plastic pieces to dig into my hips. I since upgraded to a McHale pack and he doesn't use any kind of plastic stiffeners in his belts.
Casey & Gina
08-19-2018, 12:39
The hipbelt pieces themselves seem to be foam and fabric only, but there is a piece about an inch and a half wide that makes a secondary connection to the pack farther out to the sides which had some stiff plastic in it. I'm sure it'll be years before any potential issue of the design comes to light as the materials and construction are extremely strong and we're not getting out nearly as much these days besides...
I haven't mentioned the 50th Anniversary pack much because I really don't like it. Mine is also too long for my torso, but the overall design of the pack is just awful. It was a stupid impulse buy. I still have it but for no good reason.
If you guys want to talk about *heavy* packs, take a look at the National Geographic NG5737. It's the heaviest pack I own, made of thick cotton, all-metal hardware including 6 heavy brass rings, entirely too much padding, and relatively small inside (hope you don't want a sleeping bag to fit). It's the only pack that has so many pockets I have difficulty determining the exact number. On top of that there's no frame of any sort. This pack makes all kinds of no sense. Yet it looks and feels nice, even with a good amount of weight, is completely silent, and gives one a certain indescribable joy to wear. Another silly impulse buy, I'd much rather use this crazy pack over the Kelty 50th Anniversary Edition. Of course, I could probably fit four times as much in the Kelty's single giant compartment.
You sound like a prime candidate for a Rivendell Mountain Works Jensen Pack. I bought mine from the Hippies in Victor, ID in 1974. It’s still being made today.
Good ideas never die!
Wayne