View Full Version : How to save weight after the big 2 a beginner long distance hiker is pondering..
I am wondering, where does the weight really go? for those who carry or have carried a 55 pound pack..is the excess weight distributed over all items or are there 3 or four that really bring up the total?
I am a beginner long distance hiker planning on doing an AT thru next spring. I am very happy with my 5 pound Gregory Forester and I am just not going to part with it. a 2 pound go lite day pack sounds nice but it doesnt hold much! And given the heavy rain and even snow I may encounter in the south.. I have trouble imagining NOT taking a full tent. A bivy..forget it A tarp? no protection against bugs or cold, and couldn't a wind driven rain find its way in? I have hear stories about how bad it can rain in the southern apps!!!
I do know that from experience..55 pounds equals pain and slow going.
I am hoping for a weight of 35-40 fully loaded if that is possible for me.
I have a three pound early spring bag (rated to low teens) and willl switch out with a 1/5 pound summer bag (rated to high 30's (and yes will switch after Damascus...after mt rodgers).
I am right now using the good ol fasion whisper lite stove and have a msr can of white gas. Thinking of bringing 22 oz can.
How much weight to allow for food? ( i hear 2 lbs per day so that would be 10 pounds).
How much water to carry? 2-3 quarts worth my guess.
The 35 pound load vs the 55 pound load? what is the latter carrying that the former isn't? (what specific items i mean).
DavidNH
I am seeking advice here and feed back.. so please be nice!
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif
Skidsteer
12-18-2005, 22:11
Take a look at your: pack, shelter, sleep system, stove/pot, water filtration, clothes. Perhaps the biggest expenditure in weight after those six is the miscellaneous junk that gets in your pack because it might have been a good idea at the time or for a specific trip, but wasn't re-evaluated and tossed out later. Also, if you're not faint of heart, submit your gear list and the good folks of WB will certainly give you some advice. Good luck!
i have trouble imagining NOT taking a full tent. A bivy..forget it A tarp? no protection against bugs or cold, and couldn't a wind driven rain find its way in? I have hear stories about how bad it can rain in the southern apps!!!
My Shires tarptent that I just bought is bug proof (well, maybe not totally) but I got the one with the sewn in floor and screen on front and rear. Have only used it "practicing" in the back yard, but so far so good. Very light! 35oz for the Squall 2, and it only uses your trekking poles for support, so no need to take their poles (and added weight).
RedneckRye
12-19-2005, 00:11
Unless you are carrying a bowling ball or some other similar piece of gear, 55 pounds shows up in your pack ounce by ounce by ounce. Ounces make pounds and nothing weighs nothing. Look at everything in your pack and decide if you actually need it and if it can be replaced with another item that does the same thing but weighs less. The pack is one of the last pieces of the puzzle when you are replacing gear. If you buy a super lite pack and load all of your old stuff into it, you'll hate the new pack as it wasn't designed to carry that much weight.
If you already have a full set up of gear, take that stuff to Georgia and start walking north with it. Thirty miles from Springer when you get to Neels Gap, send some stuff home and replace a few items. Do the same at Franklin, then Hot Springs, then Gatlinburg, etc, etc.
Lets see, tiny quarter-size photon flashlight, tiny swiss army knife, ONE pot, no cup, no fork, try a alcohol or cannister stove, think small think light think do without.
Here is what I carried in the summer, about 17 lbs not counting food and water:
Mountainsmith Chimera pack
REI synthetic sleeping bag (I'm cheap)
Thermarest pad
Wanderlust Nomad tent
Pack rain cover
Food bag w/bear rope
Clothing sack w/
Midweight Capaline top
Rain jacket
lightweight nylon wind pants
Clothing sack
2 pr Smartwool socks
Incidentals sack w/
small bottle Dr Bronner's soap
toothbrush w tiny tube of paste & floss
tiny Photon flashlight
tiny Swiss Army Knife
P38 can opener
ziplock w/ I.D., credit card & money etc.
Aqua Mira water treatment
Pocketmail messaging device
pen & paper
Tiny roll duct tape
needles & thread
First Aid ziplock w/
bandaides
moleskin
imodium
ibuprofin
Neosprorin
Kitchen sack w/
Pocket Rocket stove
Fuel canniter
Titanium pot w/lid
spoon
2 liter Platypus w/ drinking tube
old Gatorade bottle for extra water.
There's no rocket science involved here, David. Even as a section hiker (an aging one at that), I've pared down my weight by almost 20 lbs. since I started doing hikes longer than a long weekend.
The first thing I changed was my habit of bringing extras of everything. I took only the smaller of my 2 cookset pots (I used a Whisperlite and MSR Alpine cookset for years until recently going with a homemade alcohol stove and titanium pots).
I left the fork home and ate with a spoon.
I stopped carrying more water than I needed, and stopped more often to filter (yes, I still use a filter).
I stopped carrying more than 2 changes of clothing. (I wear one all the time while hiking, take a "spit bath" when I reach camp, put on the other set to sleep in, and change back to the grungy, damp "trail clothes" the next day.
I stopped hiking in boots (what a relief!), and switched to low top fabric shoes (hey, leather takes forever to dry out. Fabric doesn't). Three pair of socks is plenty for a week.
I use a hammock in warm weather, a tarp when the bugs are gone, and only use a tent when snow is in the forecast.
I carry only a simple knife with a can opener for everything except trimming toe and finger nails (I do that at home, since I'm not out that long). On the trail, I might bring a pair of nail scissors, or use a Leatherman Micra. Tweezers are also a must.
I carry a smaller first aid kit than I used to.
Stuff sacks! I used to carry one for every item. Now I only carry three. One for my "sleep clothes" and sleeping bag, one for my food and cookset, and one for my "warm up clothes", which I keep right under my raingear at the top of the pack. I use a trash can pack liner instead of a rain cover, and I use
a frameless pack (there, I said it). My Gregory Shasta hasn't seen the light of day for three years.
Less is more.
I am wondering, where does the weight really go? for those who carry or have carried a 55 pound pack..is the excess weight distributed over all items or are there 3 or four that really bring up the total?
This is a great question. I used to carry a 50-70lb pack when I was in high school. These days my pack is never more than 30lbs, and is often less than 20lbs. I was trying to figure out what the difference were so I make the following chart comparing what I used to take to what I was carrying in early 2004 (my gear is now several pounds lighter). Here is the list: http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/backpack-heavy-light.html
The extra weight came from several sources:
the big three are quite heavy
many items weights a bit more than is needed
surplus items are carried (I carried too much fuel, food, etc)
extra stuff which isn't needed is being carried
I am a beginner long distance hiker planning on doing an AT thru next spring. I am very happy with my 5 pound Gregory Forester and I am just not going to part with it. a 2 pound go lite day pack sounds nice but it doesnt hold much!
If the forester works for you, great. But there are a number of light weight packs which hold more than enough stuff for people on the long trails. For example, the pack I most often use is the granite gear vapor trail which weights just a bit more than 2lbs, can easily hold 3200ci, and for me, was significantly more comfortable than a forester so long as I kept the weight below ~30lbs. I have found the vapor trail large enough for for winter snow camping. Informal surveys the last few years had the granite gear vapor trail being one of the most popular packs worn by thru-hikers.
And given the heavy rain and even snow I may encounter in the south.. I have trouble imagining NOT taking a full tent. A bivy..forget it A tarp? no protection against bugs or cold, and couldn't a wind driven rain find its way in? I have hear stories about how bad it can rain in the southern apps!!!
Plenty of people have happily used shelters like henry shires tarptent in all the conditions you would normally experience on a spring time start on the AT. I have used a 9oz gossamer gear spinnshelter shaped tarp with a 6oz A16 bug bivy in a wide range of conditions (winds up to 50 mph, extremely heavy rain, 1ft of snow, high sierras in bug season, etc) and been well protected.
I have a three pound early spring bag (rated to low teens) and willl switch out with a 1/5 pound summer bag (rated to high 30's (and yes will switch after Damascus...after mt rodgers).
1/5 pound summer bag? Is this a typo.. maybe you meant 1.5lbs?
Two bags is a reasonable approach. I have a winter bag (WM versalite, 2lbs, been comfortable wearing only base layer down to 0F, used when the temps will be consistantly below 20F), and a 18oz down quilt that I use any other time. The quilt + base layer + warm hat keeps me warm to around 35F. On the nights that are colder I wear my insulating jacket or vest which keeps me comfortable down to around 20F, and safe below that.
I am right now using the good ol fasion whisper lite stove and have a msr can of white gas. Thinking of bringing 22 oz can.
Ugh. I would switch to a canister stove or an alchohol stove. You will save significant weight.
How much water to carry? 2-3 quarts worth my guess.
Depends on water availibility. I typically carry around 1.8L. I have a number of friends who have found that for most sections of the AT they were able to get away with carrying just 1L.
The 35 pound load vs the 55 pound load? what is the latter carrying that the former isn't? (what specific items i mean).
My list (for section hikes, life situation doesn't permit doing any of the long trails end to end right now) can be found at http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/backpack.html
This list is an HTML export of an excel spreadsheet. You can open it using excel and then change the parameters at the top to see how I would change what I am taking given varied conditions. Base weight varies between 8-12 pounds. Carry weight for 5 days between resupply is typically around 25lbs.
The "Problem" I see with the bigger pack is, at least from my experience, the more you will carry. Sort of an "I have room, I'll carry _______ " attitude. I fell into that my first (16 days, March.) trip I carried: a pot that was more than 2x the largest meal I cooked, 2 extra jackets that I never wore, 2 days "emergency food", the ability to carry 3 gallons of water - which I did - once, and lots of other STUFF I thought I would need or carried "just in case", but haven't used / missed in over 360 miles on the AT. My first trip the pack was 58+ lbs, I used less than 1/2 of the stuff I carried. My last (AT) trip was down to about 30 Lbs, a much better trip. I am now down to about 23 Lbs and am much happier hiking.
Look in the Ultralight section on these forums for more hints/tips/suggestions. It will decidedly take a leap of faith to lighten your load, in fact I still have to force myself to leave stuff out or choose the lighter item, but the effort is well worth it!!!!!
I have never suffered from lack of gear, :clap I have suffered due to an abundence of gear :datz .
Doctari.
If you want to go light the first thing to do is to make a list of all your gear and the weigh _everything_ to the nearest 0.1 ounce or gram depending one your preferred units. If you are feeling exceptionally brave post the list here and people will be sure to comment on it.
Wrt to the Forester - nice pack, I used to use one myself but when I switched to a Gearskin saving 3.5 _pounds_ it was immediately noticeable how much nicer it was to hike without that extra weight. The only time I use the Forester now is when I go out for trail maintenance and have to carry the heavy iron - the come-along rides nicely in it along with the crowbar, ropes, wedges, and saws. Unfortunately my days as trail maintainer are probably over so the pack is just collecting dust now.
Dave,
Lots of good advice here. Perhaps you just need some backpacking experience. That will answer a lot of your questions. Other than that:
1. Don't carry more than you need or use. Most of the way I didn't carry more than a quart/liter of water. And 11 ounces of white gas should be enough if you are careful about using it.
2. Look at what you are carrying in your pack. If it doesn't come out of your pack at night, then you probably don't need it.
3. Look at the weight of every item, and ask yourself if it's weight justifies the safety and convience that it offers you.
4. Paper is heavy. Only carry the map for one or two sections at a time. Only carry enough pages from the ALDHA Companion or Wingfoot to get you to the next mail drop. Metal is heavy. Can you replace metal items with smaller metal items, or plastic?
Outfittering stores are full of things that a thru-hiker doesn't need. Look at gear lists. For example, a typical kitchen for a thru-hiker consists of a stove, pot, and spoon. No forks, no cups, no plates, no gadgets.
Your list looks pretty good so far and you will learn as you go!I bring atleast 10 to 15 pnds of food.I would bring plenty of warm clothes for the cold weather,you will for sure be glad.Be wise and dont completely send all your stuff home,I have seen people freeze in the summer nights.ky
I am wondering, where does the weight really go? for those who carry or have carried a 55 pound pack..is the excess weight distributed over all items or are there 3 or four that really bring up the DavidNH
I am seeking advice here and feed back.. so please be nice!
FROM REI.com
How to Pack Your Backpack
You've planned, shopped and prepared. Now it's time to load up and head out. What's the smartest way to get all that gear into your backpack?
It depends on what you're carrying (internal-frame pack or external?) and where you're going (on-trail or off-trail?).
Internal-Frame Packs
Whether you're traveling on- or off-trail, keep your heaviest items close to your back, centered between your shoulder blades.
For on-trail travel, keep heavy items higher inside your pack. This helps focus more of the weight over your hips, the area of your body best equipped to carry a heavy load.
For off-trail exploration, reverse the strategy. Arrange heavier items lower in the main compartment, starting again from the spot between your shoulder blades. This lowers your center of gravity and increases your stability on uneven terrain.
Stuff your sleeping bag into its lower compartment first. Squeeze in any additional lightweight items you won't need until bedtime (pillowcase, sleeping shirt, but nothing aromatic). This will serve as the base of the main compartment, which you'll fill next.
Tighten all compression straps to limit any load-shifting.
External-Frame Packs
As with an internal, keep your heaviest items close to your back, near your shoulder blades.
Externals are recommended for on-trail travel only. Load heavier items high inside your pack and close to your body. Doing so centers the pack's weight over your hips and helps you walk in a more upright position.
Pack your sleeping bag in its stuff sack. Finish loading your main packbag, then strap the bag to the lash points on the bottom of the packbag. If rain seems likely, consider stuffing your sleeping bag inside a second stuff sack or wrapping it in plastic.
Tips for Either Pack Style
Women and people of short stature often find they prefer to pack the weight low whether they're traveling on- or off-trail, regardless of which pack style they're carrying. You are the ultimate judge of what feels comfortable to you. Experiment with different load arrangements to determine what feels best.
Make sure some items are easily accessible, packed in places where they can be reached with a minimum of digging: Map Compass
Sunglasses Insect repellent
Snack food Flashlight/headlamp
First-aid supplies Water bottles
Rainwear Packcover
Don't waste empty space. Cram every nook with something. Put a small item of clothing inside your pots, for example. Smaller items, such as food, pack more efficiently in individual units rather then when stored loosely inside a stuff sack.
If you are part of a group, split up the weight of large items (a tent, for instance) with other group members. Don't make 1 person become an involuntary packhorse.
Cluster related small items (such as utensils and kitchen items) in color-coded stuff sacks to help you spot them easily.
Minimize the number of items you strap to the outside of your pack. Gear carried externally may adversely affect your balance. Secure any equipment you carry outside so it doesn't swing or rattle.
Tips: How about long tent poles, for example? Stow them horizontally with your sleeping pad across the top of an external pack; with an internal, carry them vertically, secured behind the compression straps on one side of the pack with the ends tucked into a "wand pocket" at the pack's bottom. A daisy chain and ice axe loops are designed for specific mountaineering gear; feel free to improvise with them, but don't get so creative that you jeopardize your comfort or stability.
Make sure the cap on your fuel bottle is screwed on tightly. Position it below your food inside your pack in case of a spill.
Carry a packcover. Backpacks, though made with waterproof fabric, have vulnerable seams and zippers. After a few hours of exposure to persistent rain, the items inside your pack could become wet—and thus much heavier.
Quick repair tips: Wrap strips of duct tape around your water bottles; in case a strap pops or some other disaster occurs, a quick fix could keep you going. Take along a few safety pins in case a zipper fails.
Do you aspire to be a truly organized adventurer? Then before you reach the trailhead you should:
Evaluate what equipment is needed for this specific trip. Click here for details.
Review a checklist before you leave home to make sure you have everything you need. Click here for a list of REI's trip-planning checklists.
Double-check your older gear to make sure it's in good working order.
Pre-load your pack the night before your hike begins. Or, a few days before your departure date, rehearse packing for this trip. If you're missing something, it's better to discover this fact early.
The Solemates
12-19-2005, 10:55
I have a three pound early spring bag (rated to low teens) and willl switch out with a 1/5 pound summer bag (rated to high 30's (and yes will switch after Damascus...after mt rodgers).
DavidNH
I am seeking advice here and feed back.. so please be nice!
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif
3 lbs is heavy for a low teens bag. there are plenty of bags out there with a 15 degree rating that weigh in at 2 lbs or even less. For 2 quick examples, my 30 degree bag only weighs 1lb 5oz. My 0 degree bag only weighs around 2.5 lbs.
I am right now using the good ol fasion whisper lite stove and have a msr can of white gas. Thinking of bringing 22 oz can. ]
the whisperlite is heavy. if you want to stick with gas (which I recommend), go with something lighter like the simmerlite, or even canister stoves. also, the 11oz can should be enough for about a week's worth of cooking 2 meals a day.
How much weight to allow for food? ( i hear 2 lbs per day so that would be 10 pounds). ]
this sounds reasonable to me, but I always pack food on the heavy side, as I am a heavier eater. many say you can do just fine on 1.5lbs a day. others will say that you can resupply every 3-4 days, but 5 days is more applicable for my desires.
How much water to carry? 2-3 quarts worth my guess. ]
this may be where you are killing yourself the most. water is plentiful on the AT and you can stop for a drink often. and at 8 lbs per gallon, water is the heaviest thing you can carry. i carry a 1L pepsi bottle and even then it is usually not carried full. camel up before you start hiking in the morning and during lunch by drinking a lot while you are stopped. then dont carry all that much water while hiking. if you are thirsty, you can always stop and drink whenever you pass a stream, then just keep hiking until the next stream.
Other than the above mentioned things, try cutting out something that you do not use EVERY DAY. take a trip without these items and you will probably find that you do fine without them.
also, make sure your gear is the lightest possible that still makes you comfortable. i know you said you dont want to part with your pack, but packs with similar suspension, design, load capacity, and maximum weight carrying ability can be found weighing in at under 3 lbs. that cuts 2 lbs of your weight right there. your tent...what kind? there are plenty solo tents out there for under 3lbs. your pad...what kind? a Z-Rest, for instance, only weighs a pound and the R-value is similar to many inflatable pads. the list goes on....
hope this helps.
soulrebel
12-19-2005, 16:32
For the articles section, I was hoping to post a list of various items w/ their weight/price/capacity--especially common use items like batteries, lighters, stuff sacks, TP, platic storage containers. I have a digital scale that weighs in grams so I've already gotten about 100 items w/ their weight values.
In regards to how you get lighter,there's the big stuff then there are things like e.g.--regular stuff sacks weigh about 3.3 oz while sil-nylon sacks are about 0.6 oz. You really need a scale or an item list like the one I'm talking about above. Then you can get an idea whether an item is "worth it's weight."
peter_pan
12-19-2005, 19:49
Reduce your gear in quantity , volume and weight ...then consider what pack will get the job done....lots of super packs with 3-4,000 ci, full suspension and still in the 2.3-3.3 pound range...
Pan
One thing I fine frustrating a bit...you can ask ten hikers an advice question and get 10 different answers.
At the ADLHA gathering this fall..at least one said don't go light or medium weight (the light nick folks are the ones who will beg for food) others said you dont need more than a 3000 cc pack and 25 pounds. Warren Doyle seems to suggest that you only need to carry one liter of water on the at and just refill as you go. Hmmm.. what if it doesn't rain for days and the streams dry up? And on my hike I Won't have a van of stuff waiting at the end of my day like he does!
Jack told me he rarely carries under 50 pounds!
So I think in the final analysis..it is best to take to georgia what I have been using all along and stream line as I go.
I am hoping that given the length of the AT I will have a chance not only to make mistakes but also to correct them. On the Long Trail in VT at just 270 miles..pretty much what ya got is what ya got. There is limited opportunity to buy new gear (Manchester, vt yes..but not many other places)!
Also.. somehow I two images remain in my mind.. 1) Hiking the northern most 80 miles of the Long Trail in August 2004 over 8 days with totally soaked goretex lined nubbuck leather boots that would never ever dry out and 2) this girl I saw on top of the franconia ridge who was solo hiking the AT south bound and had started in June at Katahdin went through days of rain and was wearing only (on her feet!) quick dry sneaker type shoes. Hmm... I may very well have to do a footware adjustement!
DavidNH
Skidsteer
12-19-2005, 20:57
One thing I fine frustrating a bit...you can ask ten hikers an advice question and get 10 different answers.
DavidNH
I dunno. I reread the 15(?) replies and found them to be remarkably coherent considering they are 15 different perspectives. But I think your solution will work well enough and only you can decide what you want to carry. Have fun!
a 2 pound go lite day pack sounds nice but it doesnt hold much! Exactly. That's the point. :D
[quote=DavidNH]I am wondering, where does the weight really go? for those who carry or have carried a 55 pound pack..is the excess weight distributed over all items or are there 3 or four that really bring up the total? [quote]
in my case:
3.5 lb kelty pack down to a golite gust (21oz) (saved 35oz, or about 2 lbs)
5lb tent down to a 32 oz hammock (saved 3 lbs)
2.5 lb sleeping bag down to a 21 oz bag (saved 20 oz)
total savings on just the big three was 100 oz.
(have you noticed yet how us 'lightniks' always know how much every single little piece of our gear weighs? why? because it matters. grams equal ounces. ounces equal pounds. pounds add up.)
[quote] I am a beginner long distance hiker planning on doing an AT thru next spring. I am very happy with my 5 pound Gregory Forester and I am just not going to part with it.[quote]
ok. your choice. but that's three more lbs you have to carry that i don't. (we're up to 148 oz now.)
[quote] a 2 pound go lite day pack sounds nice but it doesn't hold much! [quote]
and there's a problem with this? actually, my gust holds plenty, and weighs less than two pounds.
[quote] And given the heavy rain and even snow I may encounter in the south.. I have trouble imagining NOT taking a full tent. A bivy..forget it A tarp? no protection against bugs or cold, and couldn't a wind driven rain find its way in? I have hear stories about how bad it can rain in the southern apps!!! [quote]
it's about 7-10 degrees warmer up inside my hammock tarp than outside. i can't explain why, but my thermometer said what it said. and that was with the wind outside blowing hard. you can stay good and warm if you can just get out of the wind. if the tarp is pitched low enough, rain can't get in. stake one out in your yard some day, just before it rains, and spend some time inside... i did, and still do, that a lot with my hennessy hammock, learning to trust it in different kinds of weather, before i went out in it. 'just a tarp' over it works fine.
[quote] I do know that from experience... 55 pounds equals pain and slow going. I am hoping for a weight of 35-40 fully loaded if that is possible for me.
I have a three pound early spring bag (rated to low teens) and willl switch out with a 1/5 pound summer bag (rated to high 30's (and yes will switch after Damascus...after mt rodgers).
I am right now using the good old fashion whisper lite stove and have a msr can of white gas. Thinking of bringing 22 oz can.
How much weight to allow for food? ( i hear 2 lbs per day so that would be 10 pounds).
How much water to carry? 2-3 quarts worth my guess.[quote]
the lighter load is definitely possible.
bag changeout is a good thing.
your whisperlite weighs 17 oz, if i'm not mistaken. a simmerlight weighs about 10 oz. my alcohol stove and stand weigh about an oz.
the fuel can alone weighs too much vs my soda bottle for fuel alcohol. that's 16 oz saved there (we're up to 164oz)
10lbs of food for 5 days is up for grabs. i'm certain i could make it lighter, but that's an area i don't scrimp on. everyone's intake/needs are different, and vary with exertion/terrain and weather/temperature. i'm good with about 1.75lbs/day. you may be higher, but we'll call it even at 10 lbs.
water-do you have any idea how much water weighs? 8 (point something) lbs to the gallon... that's two pounds per quart. carry 3 qts to my 1, and we're at a 4 lb (64 oz) difference. (if you're still keeping track, we're up to 228 oz differnce so far.) you haven't mentioned a water filter. i don't use one. my two little bottles of aquamira weigh 3 oz. my old MSR mini works was 16 oz. that's 13 more oz (241oz so far).
[quote] The 35 pound load vs the 55 pound load? what is the latter carrying that the former isn't? (what specific items i mean).[quote]
well, let's divide it out... 241 oz divided by 16 is almost exactly 15 lbs... i think i double counted a pack weight in there, but didn't add in things like lighter cookware, sleeping pads, extra clothing, etc... so i think i made my point. it's all about the oz... we're not geeks... or maybe we are... but there is a definite purpose in counting ounces...
..The 35 pound load vs the 55 pound load? what is the latter carrying that the former isn't? (what specific items i mean)...
Newspaper, miniature bowling, extra booze, penthouse magazine, frisbee, guitar...