how do you keep mice from your stuff?

[robby]

(love this forum!)
greetings, noble thru-hikers!

i plan on mostly tent camping as far from the shelters as i can manage, while still in the designated areas. i've read that many of you "sleep with your food", many hang "when hooks are provided", many hang using the traditional "pct method" from trees, some only hang in known "high bear activity" areas (shenendoah, new jersey...), some use ursack, ursack minor... etc.

i plan to eat far from my tent, and am wondering if i seal up my "odor-ables" in some sort of dry bag, and sleep with them, if that seems ok? (i always get this silly image in my mind of folks having their food bag in their sleeping bag) how many of you have had problems with that method in your own experience?

mostly just wondering what gear to purcha$e, and what i will really do when it's raining, cold, and dark, after a 25-miler, and there aren't any easy trees to hang from, and there are no hooks available (which don't really seems to be good protection from mice anyway!).

thanks very much for any advice!

robby

[Gambit McCrae]

I have only hiked about 2000 miles, but in that I have had probably 30-40 nights in shelters, and never not once has a mouse been an issue of any kind. Even less of a problem while tent camping in that I don't even see them. I would say if you make an effort to not be a slob, you will be just fine

[MuddyWaters]

mostly just wondering what gear to purcha$e, and what i will really do when it's raining, cold, and dark, after a 25-miler, and there aren't any easy trees to hang from, and there are no hooks available (which don't really seems to be good protection from mice anyway!).

thanks very much for any advice!

robbyYou keep food in tent, and go to sleep.
Maybe mr. Mouse chews into your tent, maybe he dont. In any case, he wont eat enough to matter.

You cant worry about things outside of your control

[bigcranky]

I've slept in shelters, and in my tent, and out under the stars. I've hung my food inside the shelter, outside from a tree, on a bear pole, on bear cables, slept with it, etc. Probably a couple of hundred nights total. Only had a handful of nights when mice got into my food bag -- mostly early on when it was hung on a bear cable in GA (may have been flying squirrels) and once in Vermont tenting behind a shelter. Overall not a big deal, and as Muddy says, don't worry about what you can't control.

I do find the Aloksak OP (odor proof) bags seem to make a difference. Since the GA bear cable incidents in '03, I've been keeping my food inside one, and the most recent VT incident happened when I couldn't get all my food in the OP Sack. Yeah, anecdote is not data, but this is good enough for me.

[dudeijuststarted]

hang your food properly and you should be fine. another tip is to open the pockets on your pack so they don't chew through it looking for crumbs.

[Slo-go'en]

Mice have an uncanny ability to zero in on the grop bag and eat the nuts, their preferred food. They also seem to like chocolate. They leave pretty much everything else alone unless really desperate.

I've never had mice in my food when hung from a tree, they just don't think to climb trees. Squirrels do and can sometimes be a problem. I've found that bright colored sacks attract more attention then dark colored sacks, but can be harder to find if you don't remember exactly where you hung the food!

Most shelters where bears are not a problem have tin cans (usually tuna) with a rope passed through the middle as a mouse guard. These are mostly effective, but some mice have learned to take a flying leap to the get to the bag instead of going down the rope.

But will all the nights I've spent in the woods (and there have been a lot of them) the only problem I've had was when forgetting a candy wrapper in the mesh side pocket of my pack overnight while the pack was in the shelter. I've got some damaged mesh pockets due to that.

[Heliotrope]

Keep in mind that if you sleep in designated areas other hikers may have different ideas about how to store and prepare food. I had a woman set up next to me and cooked pasta and veggies right in the vestibule of her tent filling the interior with food odors. You may have to let go of the things you can't control or sleep in undesignated sites away from everyone. I've had bears take my food bags when I didn't know how to hang them properly and have had them make failed attempts when I learned how to do it right. So when I am camped with other hikers who don't hang or poorly hang I figure I have a better chance of keeping my food. [emoji3]


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[MuddyWaters]

You can also leave tp out, and they will spend night building nest with it. Possibly in your shoes

[4runner]

Staying away from the shelters and often used tent sites, always good advice.

[X-Pat]

You keep food in tent, and go to sleep.
Maybe mr. Mouse chews into your tent, maybe he dont. In any case, he wont eat enough to matter.

You cant worry about things outside of your control

I wouldn't be too worried about the amount of my food Mr. Mouse eats, I would be more worried about what he chews through on his way to my food.
All the smellies in the bear bag - worst case scenario is a hole in a low-cost bag instead of in my tent, backpack, etc.

[Dogwood]

#1 thing that I do to avoid meeses is not camp where other humans tend to camp. Ever notice how many problems occur in areas of high human activity?

[Christoph]

I hung my food most of time and also my trash in a plastic bag. They didn't bother me too much, but when I stayed in the shelter they were running all over. Didn't really bother me though. I had 1 try to get in my tent one night but I had my food in there with me (I was real tired that day) so I smacked him off the tent and never heard from him again. I put my tent up fairly close to the shelter though. Overall, they don't bother you much if you take the right precautions, but you don't have to overdo/overthink it.

[aka.cyberman]

Play it safe and Hang It. Emphasis on the word Safe. 100 - 200 feet from your tent and water source. Form a triangle of Campsite, Water & Food. Don't cook by your camp, if you are staying at the campsite overnight. Don't slop food on your clothes. I know that's being anal & overkill, but I don't like critters of any size creeping around me while I sleep. They are curious by nature in their constant quest to eat. You'll figure it out.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Stayingg away from shelters and Hiking with a dog is probably the single best method of critter deterrence I've found. :sun

[johnnybgood]

No sleeping in shelters . Sleep with your food in your tent...with it in a secured food bag.

[Longboysfan]

Stupid thought maybe.
Anyone ever bring a mouse trap with them?

Then just leave it in the shelter?

[Trance]

Never once had mice problems in shelters or tenting on any part of the trail.

Had some twenty something girls complaining in spence shelter that they heard mice in the walls... but I never saw them or had them mess with anything.

People like to embellish the truth of the trail sometimes.

[Lone Wolf]

how do i keep mice from my stuff? i sleep with all my stuff in a tent way away from shelters and such. 30 years never had a mouse chew through my tent

[Harrison Bergeron]

I always used my tent unless it looked like serious rain. The guy I was hiking with slept with his food and he complained about them all the time. The one time I slept with my food, I heard them running up between my tent fly and bug net occasionally, but they didn't get in. Other than that, I never heard any mice near my tent.

The only shelter I stayed in where I didn't hear mice scurrying across my groundsheet all night was Long Branch, and probably only because it's so new that it's caulked to deprive them of hiding places. At Wesser they were so bad that you could see them scurrying across the ridge beam and they would stop and lean way over to get a good look at you. At one point during the night a mouse ran across my feet and startled me and I bounced him off the wall. The reason it was so bad there was because some idiot got rid of his 2-pound bag of cous-cous by leaving it on the the table with a sign that said "trail magic". More like "mice magic". We burned it.

I always hung my food, but in the shelters, I would hang my pack from a nail or one of those hangars with a tuna can and they never got into anything.

You're going to see lots of mice, but it's mostly just a yuck factor if you use a little common sense.

[Casey & Gina]

Carry a couple mousetraps and set them up with peanut butter outside your tent. Collect any trapped mice in your cookpot, boiling them up the next morning for breakfast. If you fancy a bear bonding experience, carry along the mice to your next campsite and strew them about near your tent.

[Longboysfan]

Carry a couple mousetraps and set them up with peanut butter outside your tent. Collect any trapped mice in your cookpot, boiling them up the next morning for breakfast. If you fancy a bear bonding experience, carry along the mice to your next campsite strew them about near your tent.

Great. I was wondering how to get that close up wilderness picture.

[Longboysfan]

Brings up a good point as the mice problems they had in Yosemite a few years back sent people to hospital.

[kibs]

You keep food in tent, and go to sleep.
Maybe mr. Mouse chews into your tent, maybe he dont. In any case, he wont eat enough to matter.

You cant worry about things outside of your control
Yeh, if you don't mind little holes chewed into your tent, you should good to go. I always hang mine.

Other critters like coons, possum and the like are all "experts" in ripping off your food!

[swisscross]

How about a small electrical charge using a battery.

[ALLEGHENY]

:-?The solution is edible homemade rat poison.By using ingredients that are completely safe for people and pets you can still poison all the rats in your home. Below are the ingredients for the edible homemade rat poison.
1 Cup flour
1 Cup Sugar
1 Cup Baking Soda
Those three ingredients, which everyone has around the house, are all you need to get rid of your rat or mouse infestation.
Once the ingredients are mixed together, place small amounts in tiny bowls, and store them in places where rats are leaving their droppings.
The reason that this edible poison will kill rats is because the bicarbonate in the baking soda will mix with their stomach acids and kill them. Rats can not burp or belch, so they will die.
If you can fix a small trap to put the poison in, the rat will not be able to go off and die, causing a smell. If you want safe rat poison, try this recipe.

[ALLEGHENY]

:-?The solution is edible homemade rat poison.By using ingredients that are completely safe for people and pets you can still poison all the rats in your home. Below are the ingredients for the edible homemade rat poison.
1 Cup flour
1 Cup Sugar
1 Cup Baking Soda
Those three ingredients, which everyone has around the house, are all you need to get rid of your rat or mouse infestation.
Once the ingredients are mixed together, place small amounts in tiny bowls, and store them in places where rats are leaving their droppings.
The reason that this edible poison will kill rats is because the bicarbonate in the baking soda will mix with their stomach acids and kill them. Rats can not burp or belch, so they will die.
If you can fix a small trap to put the poison in, the rat will not be able to go off and die, causing a smell. If you want safe rat poison, try this recipe.

http://pestnest.com/homemade-rat-poison/

[ALLEGHENY]

Duel purpose: Baking soda In your toothpaste. Sodium Bicarbonate added to GORP.

[evyck da fleet]

People will eat breakfast lunch and dinner at the picnic table or front of the shelter. Chances are someone will hang their bag in the shelter and leave a food wrapper in a pocket. You shouldn't have a problem while tenting. I've only picked two sites where I felt the need to check for rodent holes near the base of tress close to my tent and one of those sites had a bear box.

[pauly_j]

I read that a lot of rodents (squirrels in particular) hate spicy stuff. I'll be carrying chili powder or curry powder for meals anyway so maybe leaving that open will deter them. Could attract other things though.

Anyone used this practice?

[Traveler]

Take one hostage, make menacing gestures that can only be interpreted as "stay away or Mickey gets it".

Release on departure, reminding Mickey to tell others what happened there.

No mice were harmed in production of this technique

[sfdoc]

I read that putting anti-static dryer sheets in the backpack pockets repels mice. I've never tried it. Has anyone tried this, or even heard of it?

[Adriana]

You can also leave tp out, and they will spend night building nest with it. Possibly in your shoes
I have mice in my garage. I put out a couple of sheets of tissues and they have shown no interest whatsoever. It's possible they already have a comfy nest and dont need it. (I keep my vegetable garden seeds in the garage and am fully expecting to find some damage there when I tackle the garage after the rains start.)

[TEXMAN]

Go to ACE hardware and buy some rodent repellant ....main ingredient dry fox urine ..... sprinkle some of the powder around your stuff and where you will sleep ...
non toxic and it doesn't hurt the mice ..just makes them move on ..

[QiWiz]

When sleeping with my food bag, I have had mice chew a hole in my tent to get at a smellable item inside when I was camped well away from a shelter area and had not eaten food anywhere near the tent. Same with my pack when I forgot something was in a pocket of the pack, again nowhere near a shelter. Not a BIG deal, but I prefer non-holy tents and packs. So I now use an Ursack Minor and store it outside my tent. No problems since. In bear country I hang it. Above tree line I use a bear canister or a lined regular Ursak. YMMV

[TexasBob]

Go to ACE hardware and buy some rodent repellant ....main ingredient dry fox urine ..... sprinkle some of the powder around your stuff and where you will sleep.....

Would hiker urine work?:rolleyes:

[Sandy of PA]

Hiker urine attracts to deer who are looking for a source of salt. One of the reasons to walk a bit from your tent or shelter to relieve oneself.

[Lone Wolf]

i've peed in my vestibule dozens of times cuz of hard rains

[twistwrist]

Bear canisters work well against bears AND mice! :) They are required for a section in GA and recommended from GA all the way to Damascus, VA based on increasing bear encounters. A canister also makes a great seat so you'll be the coolest person around the campfire. ;)

[Miel]

I read that a lot of rodents (squirrels in particular) hate spicy stuff. I'll be carrying chili powder or curry powder for meals anyway so maybe leaving that open will deter them. Could attract other things though.

Anyone used this practice?

I sprayed a mixture of cayenne and water (1:1) on my dormers where the squirrels had gnawed away. They hate the stuff.

[Miel]

In the Welsh Mabinogi, mice threaten the crops planted by Manawydan, the sea god's son. He decides to bring one of the mice to the gallows pole ... so theres that:

https://books.google.com/books?id=5IWflKkhVuAC&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177&dq=the+mabinogi+-+manawydan+-+mouse&source=bl&ots=GwUoPielL9&sig=x7EKfVNqOvWo_-wBtXsxeANKfSk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy782zi5vLAhWJPT4KHWE0DFAQ6AEISzAI#v=on epage&q=the%20mabinogi%20-%20manawydan%20-%20mouse&f=false

Of course, these mice are shapeshifters, and Manawaydan soon learns they are trickster members of our own species.

http://www.mabinogi.net/manawydan.htm

[Dogwood]

When sleeping with my food bag, I have had mice chew a hole in my tent to get at a smellable item inside when I was camped well away from a shelter area and had not eaten food anywhere near the tent. Same with my pack when I forgot something was in a pocket of the pack, again nowhere near a shelter. Not a BIG deal, but I prefer non-holy tents and packs. So I now use an Ursack Minor and store it outside my tent. No problems since. In bear country I hang it. Above tree line I use a bear canister or a lined regular Ursak. YMMV

That's because ALDMHA - Appalachian Long Distance Mouse Hikers Association - publishes a Mouse Guidebook listing potential resupply points based everywhere human hikers camp on the AT. :D

[Malto]

That's because ALDMHA - Appalachian Long Distance Mouse Hikers Association - publishes a Mouse Guidebook listing potential resupply points based everywhere human hikers camp on the AT. :D

They also share the best resupply points on MouseBlaze but usually the thread ends with everyone telling the mouse that a big cat will eat them.

[Hikin Pole]

Someone suggested mousetraps but am thinking some hikers may be outraged at this. Would a hiker using traps he tared & feathered???? I have read, in I think Garvey's book, that one shelter he stayed in was overrun with mice. I have had mice chew into a pack once which was annoying, yes.

[Traveler]

Someone suggested mousetraps but am thinking some hikers may be outraged at this. Would a hiker using traps he tared & feathered???? I have read, in I think Garvey's book, that one shelter he stayed in was overrun with mice. I have had mice chew into a pack once which was annoying, yes.

Hiker outrage is justifiable if someone steps on your trap with bare feet, has a dog that gets its nose bloodied, or you catch a mouse by a rear leg as you and perhaps several others watch it flop around for an hour. These circumstances likely won't end well for the mouse, or you.

So this kind of begs a question, on mountain tops, do you want to shoot birds like grey jays that swoop down to steal your food, or do you want to crush the heads of chipmunks and squirrels scavenging for food people offer them without thinking who get into your food or pack? Do you set up strangle traps for raccoons that may come in the dead of night for your food or perhaps your soul (no one really can say which they want more)?. If not, why would you feel differently about mice who are only doing what people don't do, clean up after themselves. Everything has a purpose.

Using mousetraps on a trail is not like using them in a house where you can dispose of everything once the mouse is caught and effectively and observe the sanitation necessary to prevent illness. Keeping the traps for the next shelter ensures you keep the bacteria, parasites, and insects mice have with you. Plastic bags are not nearly enough to keep these things penned up. The risk/consequence analysis is not difficult to make given the potential of these things to eventually get into your pack, clothing, hair, skin, food, and that of others you come in contact with. Worse perhaps is the trail name that can be earned, "Mouseman", "Mickey Killer", "Rodent Reaper", "Disease", and other even less flattering names tend to stick to people longer than the names they want to have used. Though if one is drawn to the cachet of hanging mouse feet from a string around ones neck is understandable, its not yet fully embraced by the trail community and could become an issue.

Simple avoidance is the best prevention and really all that is needed for all these annoyances of nature you are trying to commune with. Camp well away from shelters is perhaps the best way to do this. Mice are indeed an annoyance, much like other things one will eventually run across on the trail, petulant screaming children and unleashed dogs walking over your a new sleeping bag leap to mind. Its bad form to kill off these annoyances (though the temptation can certainly be entertained in thought) however in these circumstances an old adage may help, "learn to live with what you can't rise above".

[Tipi Walter]

The question is, is it illegal to kill mice with a trap on the Appalchian Trail, or in a Southeast national forest? Anyone know?

I understand the reluctance by hikers to kill a mouse invading their tent and food, but once you see the damage they can do to your gear, well, just carry a little plastic trap and put it in the tent vestibule.

** I've had countless hung food bags holed by chewing mice, once even had a mouse come down a bear line and chew thru a bag.
** Had countless mice come into my tent and run across my head and face.
** Had a brand new Hilleberg tent which a mouse chewed off the brand label on the inner tent by the floor.
** Had the ankle cuffs of my boots chewed away.

Point is, these little motards get old fast and my gear needs to be protected. Question remains: Is it illegal to trap a mouse in a national forest or on the AT?

[Traveler]

It probably depends if you are going to go into the commercial glove manufacturing business using the pelts. That would likely not be legal by NPS regulations.

I cannot speak to the dispatching of the petulant screaming child or off leash dog trotting on down sleeping bags, though I would imagine that would be similar.

[Mouser999]

My choice is my GrubPack. If the little buggers want my food after its hung, they better bring wire cutters for the stainless steel.

[Casey & Gina]

Someone suggested mousetraps but am thinking some hikers may be outraged at this.

In case it was not blatantly obvious, that suggestion (at least if the one I wrote is the one being referred to) was a joke.

Here's another one:

Carry your pistol on the trail, and to help fight off Shelter Boredom Syndrome, shoot at the mice whenever you see them. Nevermind if they are on somebody else's pack, or sleeping bag. If an unfortunate accident should happen, blame it on the mice and hike away quickly in an entitled huff.

[Casey & Gina]

Had a brand new Hilleberg tent which a mouse chewed off the brand label on the inner tent by the floor.

I've done some preventative maintenance for that one: ;)

33933

[bigcranky]

I'd be outraged. What gives you the right to kill animals who live in the woods for your own freaking convenience? You want to shoot a deer and eat it? Bless you both. Murder mice who live in the shelter because they bother you? Dude, you're starting to bother me, if you get my drift.

Don't sleep in or near shelters. Hang your food properly. Use an Ursack or something similar if you have concerns.

[Tipi Walter]

I'd be outraged. What gives you the right to kill animals who live in the woods for your own freaking convenience? You want to shoot a deer and eat it? Bless you both. Murder mice who live in the shelter because they bother you? Dude, you're starting to bother me, if you get my drift.

Don't sleep in or near shelters. Hang your food properly. Use an Ursack or something similar if you have concerns.

Yes, but is it illegal?

Bigcranky---Have you ever killed a tick or slapped a mosquito while on a backpacking trip? Same thing.

[flatgrounder]

mouse=protein skinned quartered thrown in rice pilaf

[bigcranky]

Yes, but is it illegal?

Bigcranky---Have you ever killed a tick or slapped a mosquito while on a backpacking trip? Same thing.


Sure I have. But where do you draw the line, TW? Can I kill the big black snake under the log before I sit down for lunch? Or should I choose a different log?

I expect it's illegal in National Parks to use a mousetrap in a shelter. I don't know if that would extend the entire length of the trail, since it's sort of administered as a national park.

[Traveler]

Sure I have. But where do you draw the line, TW? Can I kill the big black snake under the log before I sit down for lunch? Or should I choose a different log?

I expect it's illegal in National Parks to use a mousetrap in a shelter. I don't know if that would extend the entire length of the trail, since it's sort of administered as a national park.

It probably comes down to interpretation, much like walking along a river with a fishing pole in your pack and no license. Even if you weren't fishing, you'd get the ticket. Trapping animals typically requires a license. I would presume in National Parks that trapping licenses are difficult, if not impossible to obtain. Trapping without a license would not be something I would want to argue with Park Service authorities about. Private lands are usually posted against trespassing, hunting, fishing, and trapping, which brings criminal and civil penalties, so the safer bet is to move away from shelters and avoid the mouse problem lest you learn the joys of prison life.

[George]

It probably comes down to interpretation, much like walking along a river with a fishing pole in your pack and no license. Even if you weren't fishing, you'd get the ticket. Trapping animals typically requires a license. I would presume in National Parks that trapping licenses are difficult, if not impossible to obtain. Trapping without a license would not be something I would want to argue with Park Service authorities about. Private lands are usually posted against trespassing, hunting, fishing, and trapping, which brings criminal and civil penalties, so the safer bet is to move away from shelters and avoid the mouse problem lest you learn the joys of prison life.

get fast and catch the mice by hand - eat the mice immediately so there is no evidence - I have always found that post digestion, the mice lose interest in my stuff - problem solved

[Traveler]

get fast and catch the mice by hand - eat the mice immediately so there is no evidence - I have always found that post digestion, the mice lose interest in my stuff - problem solved

I think you have the hang of this!

[THEDON]

It probably comes down to interpretation, much like walking along a river with a fishing pole in your pack and no license. Even if you weren't fishing, you'd get the ticket. Trapping animals typically requires a license. I would presume in National Parks that trapping licenses are difficult, if not impossible to obtain. Trapping without a license would not be something I would want to argue with Park Service authorities about. Private lands are usually posted against trespassing, hunting, fishing, and trapping, which brings criminal and civil penalties, so the safer bet is to move away from shelters and avoid the mouse problem lest you learn the joys of prison life.

Fun Fact--In Cleveland OH it's illegal to trap mice without a hunting license.

[Cotton Terry]

I wonder how an Owl decoy stuck in an upper corner of the shelter would deter mice. They seem to work in barns.

[Dogwood]

I have a pet owl and cat I hike with that keep the meese at bay. It's quite entertaining watching both hunt for meeses.

Had a barred owl in GSMNP swoop down in silence out of my blind spot to snatch up a mouse that was attracted to my cooking not more than 6 ft away knocking me over backwards startled beyond words. One moment the mouse was there. The next moment he was gobbled down by the owl.

Saw a Black Racer nail a mouse scampering around inside an AT shelter while I laid there watching in my sleeping bag. Saw a Copperhead nail a small rat at another AT shelter at the campfire ring in PA.

[pauly_j]

If I saw someone killing mice, I'd have a word.

[Puddlefish]

I have a pet owl and cat I hike with that keep the meese at bay. It's quite entertaining watching both hunt for meeses.

Had a barred owl in GSMNP swoop down in silence out of my blind spot to snatch up a mouse that was attracted to my cooking not more than 6 ft away knocking me over backwards startled beyond words. One moment the mouse was there. The next moment he was gobbled down by the owl.

Saw a Black Racer nail a mouse scampering around inside an AT shelter while I laid there watching in my sleeping bag. Saw a Copperhead nail a small rat at another AT shelter at the campfire ring in PA.

Is your cat a liger? Because that would be sweet.

[Dogwood]

Mouse hunting cuddly soft ferrets for sale $300.

Ferret scent 6 oz spray bottle $50. Guaranteed to repel mice. As seen on TV.

Call now. Operators are standing by to take your order. Major credit cards accepted. Limited number of ferrets so act now while quantities last.

If you call within the next 15 minutes "kit" includes includes ferret training instructional booklet, one wk ferret food, ferret collar, and 10 ft leash.

[Leo L.]

Be careful with ferrets - in lack of mice they eat car electric.

[Longboysfan]

Novel idea i used when we were section hiking last week.
Mouse traps in the shelter.
We set three in Springer - hit two of them less than an hour after full dark and quiet. These were well fed mouses.
I left one there. This will keep mouse population down a bit.
Set three in Woods hole shelter and hit one about 1/2 hour after dark and quiet.
I left them all there baited.

Peanuts seem the bait of choice.

[Tipi Walter]

Novel idea i used when we were section hiking last week.
Mouse traps in the shelter.
We set three in Springer - hit two of them less than an hour after full dark and quiet. These were well fed mouses.
I left one there. This will keep mouse population down a bit.
Set three in Woods hole shelter and hit one about 1/2 hour after dark and quiet.
I left them all there baited.

Peanuts seem the bait of choice.

Pauly J might have a word with you about this. But I like the way your mind thinks.

[Wise Old Owl]

I read that a lot of rodents (squirrels in particular) hate spicy stuff. I'll be carrying chili powder or curry powder for meals anyway so maybe leaving that open will deter them. Could attract other things though.

Anyone used this practice?

Nope...................if you are hungry enough - as a mammal - you too would eat anything.

[Wise Old Owl]

on second thought - hike with a cat on your hat.

[Traveler]

Novel idea i used when we were section hiking last week.
Mouse traps in the shelter.
We set three in Springer - hit two of them less than an hour after full dark and quiet. These were well fed mouses.
I left one there. This will keep mouse population down a bit.
Set three in Woods hole shelter and hit one about 1/2 hour after dark and quiet.
I left them all there baited.

Peanuts seem the bait of choice.

Leaving baited traps out for others to deal with or step on (or their dogs) is pretty low end. What of raccoons, birds or other creatures who may happen upon the baited, set traps? What of mice, moles, shrews, voles, squirrels, or chipmunks who get caught in the trap and not killed and suffer endless hours before they expire. Is it that you have a cruelty streak, or are you just ignorant of these consequences?

[Lone Wolf]

i was at springer last monday night. saw traps set out. next morning 2 dead mice were placed on the cooking grate in the fire ring. not cool

[Longboysfan]

Leaving baited traps out for others to deal with or step on (or their dogs) is pretty low end. What of raccoons, birds or other creatures who may happen upon the baited, set traps? What of mice, moles, shrews, voles, squirrels, or chipmunks who get caught in the trap and not killed and suffer endless hours before they expire. Is it that you have a cruelty streak, or are you just ignorant of these consequences?

The traps were left in spots in the shelters only mice would be able to get near.
If you had hiked into Springer you would have noticed the lack of wildlife about.
If you had been in a shelter you would know what is about.
We saw only a few animal tracks while hiking.
We saw no Squirrells or Chipmunks.

Time to get on the trail and see what is out there.

[Puddlefish]

The traps were left in spots in the shelters only mice would be able to get near.
If you had hiked into Springer you would have noticed the lack of wildlife about.
If you had been in a shelter you would know what is about.
We saw only a few animal tracks while hiking.
We saw no Squirrells or Chipmunks.

Time to get on the trail and see what is out there.

I think the proper answer is "Oh, I didn't realize I was being an idiot" or maybe "lol, I was trolling and didn't actually leave the traps." You're only digging deeper at the moment.

There's nothing remotely intelligent about leaving traps in shelters, for others to deal with rotting carcases, for killing wildlife along the trail, just because you were too lazy to fearful to store your food properly. It's not even efficient, one mouse dies, another gets the peanut, gets stronger and reproduces. It's a zero sum game.

[Tipi Walter]

I can't believe posters here on this thread are so supportive of shelter mice and their health and well-being. Can't believe posters here are even supportive of the dang rat-box shelters.

Today I was perusing thru some winter Trail Journals of the AT and one guy mentioned having his down quilt eaten thru by a shelter mouse. I thought of this thread and for all the Mice Apologists out there.

I see them simply as pests when encountered in my tent, afterwhich they are "encouraged" to leave. Do I sit on a rock and kill a black snake I see nearby? Hell no. Do I hike down a trail and kill every rattlesnake I see? Hell no. Do I seek and destroy chipmunks and squirrels and piglets and millipedes and newts and toads? Nope. But when a mouse enters my tent thru a chew hole he just made in the floor, well, it's time for a plan.

When I'm sitting in my tent and pull of a tick from my leg it's sayonatra Mr Tick.

[Casey & Gina]

I read that a lot of rodents (squirrels in particular) hate spicy stuff. I'll be carrying chili powder or curry powder for meals anyway so maybe leaving that open will deter them. Could attract other things though.

Anyone used this practice?

Don't forget to smear bacon grease all over your tent walls while you're at it. ;)

Leaving strongly-scented food wide open sounds like a terrible, terrible idea.

[Puddlefish]

I can't believe posters here on this thread are so supportive of shelter mice and their health and well-being. Can't believe posters here are even supportive of the dang rat-box shelters.

Today I was perusing thru some winter Trail Journals of the AT and one guy mentioned having his down quilt eaten thru by a shelter mouse. I thought of this thread and for all the Mice Apologists out there.

I see them simply as pests when encountered in my tent, afterwhich they are "encouraged" to leave. Do I sit on a rock and kill a black snake I see nearby? Hell no. Do I hike down a trail and kill every rattlesnake I see? Hell no. Do I seek and destroy chipmunks and squirrels and piglets and millipedes and newts and toads? Nope. But when a mouse enters my tent thru a chew hole he just made in the floor, well, it's time for a plan.

When I'm sitting in my tent and pull of a tick from my leg it's sayonatra Mr Tick.

If you want to set mouse traps in your own tent, clean up after yourself, dispose of the remains, and all the duties attendant with that process, then go wild.

If you're going to leave dead mice, bait and traps at a location where other people and animals have to deal with the sloppiness of that process, then that's a whole different thing.

[TexasBob]

....... It's not even efficient, one mouse dies, another gets the peanut, gets stronger and reproduces. It's a zero sum game.

Forget the peanut, other mice will eat the dead one in the trap!

[Tipi Walter]

If you want to set mouse traps in your own tent, clean up after yourself, dispose of the remains, and all the duties attendant with that process, then go wild.

If you're going to leave dead mice, bait and traps at a location where other people and animals have to deal with the sloppiness of that process, then that's a whole different thing.

I agree. It's stupid to leave your trap(s) at a shelter because you'll need them at the next campsite the following day!

[Traveler]

The traps were left in spots in the shelters only mice would be able to get near.
If you had hiked into Springer you would have noticed the lack of wildlife about.
If you had been in a shelter you would know what is about.
We saw only a few animal tracks while hiking.
We saw no Squirrells or Chipmunks.

Time to get on the trail and see what is out there.

Having maintained trails for the better part of 20 years I doubt there is much I have not seen, including those who take delight in leaving baited traps for others to deal with. Squirrels and chipmunks are common on the AT, shelter areas where people leave food laying about when they leave are an attraction for them along with raccoons, opossum, and other small mammals and birds. Apparently because you didn't notice any, they don't exist however which in a myopic sense would be true I guess.

Ignorance is curable, its stupid thats forever is the operative quote in this circumstance. I hope you are able to lose both along the way as others pick up behind you.

[pauly_j]

Don't forget to smear bacon grease all over your tent walls while you're at it. ;)

Leaving strongly-scented food wide open sounds like a terrible, terrible idea.

I'll be hanging my food.

[pauly_j]

I can't believe so many people who want to get close to nature on long trails in the wilderness are so happy to kill. Quite disappointing.

[Traveler]

I can't believe posters here on this thread are so supportive of shelter mice and their health and well-being. Can't believe posters here are even supportive of the dang rat-box shelters.

Today I was perusing thru some winter Trail Journals of the AT and one guy mentioned having his down quilt eaten thru by a shelter mouse. I thought of this thread and for all the Mice Apologists out there.

I see them simply as pests when encountered in my tent, afterwhich they are "encouraged" to leave. Do I sit on a rock and kill a black snake I see nearby? Hell no. Do I hike down a trail and kill every rattlesnake I see? Hell no. Do I seek and destroy chipmunks and squirrels and piglets and millipedes and newts and toads? Nope. But when a mouse enters my tent thru a chew hole he just made in the floor, well, it's time for a plan.

When I'm sitting in my tent and pull of a tick from my leg it's sayonatra Mr Tick.

Wow.

Shelters are a necessary evil on trails like the AT which see a huge variety of people move over the ground during a given year. Controlling the impact of people camping in a "wild area" is one of those issues that many people either cannot comprehend or are against, preferring people just camp wherever and create a relatively huge impact area.

The issue of rodents in shelters is not new, but is influenced only by people. Don't leave litter and bits of food around and the rodent population will diminish. This isn't limited to shelters. Mountaintops, popular views, and features like waterfalls, etc, have creatures who will mooch food out of a pack that they can access. This includes birds and larger rodents like squirrels and chipmunks, due to large numbers of people being irresponsible with their litter, food, and who try to feed these creatures. I'm curious why you see these as "pests" when they are simply reacting to human presence, or are they only "pests" when they are mice and not if they fly or are over 1 pound in weight.

I've no issue with controlling mice in one's tent. However, leaving live traps (baited and set) in places where other people routinely go like shelters is something even the lowest common denominator of society can recognize as being wrong. Other creatures wander in and out of shelters in search of human refuse and are caught by traps. Many animals are maimed and are not able to forage/hunt for food as they are designed to and eventually die as a result. I am surprised you would be supportive of this kind of thing.

[Tipi Walter]

Wow.

Shelters are a necessary evil on trails like the AT which see a huge variety of people move over the ground during a given year. Controlling the impact of people camping in a "wild area" is one of those issues that many people either cannot comprehend or are against, preferring people just camp wherever and create a relatively huge impact area.

The issue of rodents in shelters is not new, but is influenced only by people. Don't leave litter and bits of food around and the rodent population will diminish. This isn't limited to shelters. Mountaintops, popular views, and features like waterfalls, etc, have creatures who will mooch food out of a pack that they can access. This includes birds and larger rodents like squirrels and chipmunks, due to large numbers of people being irresponsible with their litter, food, and who try to feed these creatures. I'm curious why you see these as "pests" when they are simply reacting to human presence, or are they only "pests" when they are mice and not if they fly or are over 1 pound in weight.

I've no issue with controlling mice in one's tent. However, leaving live traps (baited and set) in places where other people routinely go like shelters is something even the lowest common denominator of society can recognize as being wrong. Other creatures wander in and out of shelters in search of human refuse and are caught by traps. Many animals are maimed and are not able to forage/hunt for food as they are designed to and eventually die as a result. I am surprised you would be supportive of this kind of thing.

I never camp at shelters on my AT backpacking trips as there are thousands of tent spots along the AT and I have found and used them all. AT shelters are in my opinion a blight on the landscape and break the LNT policy---a building leaves a big trace and we're supposed to leave no trace. And they congregate and placate hikers which encourages backpackers to start the trail at Springer every year. Remove the shelters and encourage dispersed camping. This might thin the herd. Then again, please leave them so I can use all the dispersed spots without interference.

And imagine how empty the AT would be in the winter without these car-port boxes. Or in terrible weather or cold rains. Good gosh, the App Trail would revert to just a regular backpacking trail where everyone has to carry their own shelters and be prepared for the worst.

Why do I see camp mice as pests? You must've not read my post. Because they chew thru my tent floor and into my boots and consume my food.

You say you are surprised that I condone leaving baited traps at shelters and in campsites but I never said such a thing or say I encourage it. As I said, if someone leaves a baited mouse trap at a shelter, he won't have his trap for night two at a different spot. And it's just bad form. Deal only with the rodents which invade your tent---and don't torture yourself by sleeping in a rat-box AT shelter, please.

When you say you " . . . have no issue with controlling mice in one's tent", well, amen and pass the gorp. It's all I've been saying for the last many posts.

And Traveler: Since you have maintained trails (and the AT?) for 20 years, do you know if killing mice on the AT is illegal or not?

[Puddlefish]

If you want us to pick up on your nuances Walter, you need to pick up on our nuances. I didn't suggest that killing mice was wrong, or was somehow illegal or unethical.

I said that doing it in a shelter was lame. Then you jumped with "I can't believe posters here on this thread are so supportive of shelter mice and their health and well-being." Not very nuanced. No one in this thread advocated for the health and well-being of shelter mice. That's why I responded the way I did.

I doubt I'll ever sleep in a shelter, unless I'm required to along a section of trail, but that doesn't mean that I don't have some empathy for the people who do. Thus, I don't care about shelter mice, but I do care about shelter people.

I use traps at home, in the house. Despite safe food storage and general cleanliness, they come in the house late fall, early winter. Most of the kills are clean, but it's not unusual to be woken in the middle of the night by an injured mouse. At which point I need to wake up, find where it's dragged the trap to and finish it off. I wouldn't wish that on any other hiker, even if they chose to stay in a vermin infested shelter.

In the end, we seem to agree on every point.

[Traveler]

I never camp at shelters on my AT backpacking trips as there are thousands of tent spots along the AT and I have found and used them all. AT shelters are in my opinion a blight on the landscape and break the LNT policy---a building leaves a big trace and we're supposed to leave no trace. And they congregate and placate hikers which encourages backpackers to start the trail at Springer every year. Remove the shelters and encourage dispersed camping. This might thin the herd. Then again, please leave them so I can use all the dispersed spots without interference.

And imagine how empty the AT would be in the winter without these car-port boxes. Or in terrible weather or cold rains. Good gosh, the App Trail would revert to just a regular backpacking trail where everyone has to carry their own shelters and be prepared for the worst.

Why do I see camp mice as pests? You must've not read my post. Because they chew thru my tent floor and into my boots and consume my food.

You say you are surprised that I condone leaving baited traps at shelters and in campsites but I never said such a thing or say I encourage it. As I said, if someone leaves a baited mouse trap at a shelter, he won't have his trap for night two at a different spot. And it's just bad form. Deal only with the rodents which invade your tent---and don't torture yourself by sleeping in a rat-box AT shelter, please.

When you say you " . . . have no issue with controlling mice in one's tent", well, amen and pass the gorp. It's all I've been saying for the last many posts.

And Traveler: Since you have maintained trails (and the AT?) for 20 years, do you know if killing mice on the AT is illegal or not?

When you term those disagreeing with you as "mouse apologists", you can probably see where the presumption train goes from there. You'll forgive me if I did not recognize your tone and choice of invectives did not match your overall philosophy.

To your question, the short answer is no, it is not legal to trap animals in the AT corridor. Since the AT passes through many States having a variety of different regulations on a host of issues, Congress designated the AT corridor as a "National Scenic Trail" protected and managed by the National Park Service. Essentially NPS regulations are the overarching regulatory landscape for trail use activities, trapping animals among them.

There are instances where nuisance animals have to be dealt with which NPS rangers are used or special permits are issued (usually to credentialed people) to deal with the animal/bird/insect problem. As a practical matter however, I doubt if anyone will take issue with dispatching a mouse that gets into a tent. Much as speeding is illegal, but rarely are tickets issued for 3 mph over the posted limit.

My issue in all this are those who opt to leave live traps behind them for others to deal with has been an issue with me for a while. Having seen a raccoon caught in a mouse trap by some dolt who left it in a shelter was all I had to witness to have strong opinions about that level of irresponsible behavior. The trap was apparently placed on a beam about 5' off the floor, near a shelf. The animal had gotten its front paw into the trap, breaking most of the small bones. The worst part was when the trap sprung, it slipped behind the beam and wedged so the animal could not pull it out. It must have struggled for a long time. We estimated at least two days given the scratch marks on the side of the shelter walls and the amount of blood from where it tried to gnaw off the paw. By the time we arrived, the animal was hanging by the paw, unable to put up a struggle when we freed it. We took the animal to a Vet, who took one look at the leg and saw the animal would never be able to use it again and the animal was put down.

Perhaps you can see why its a conversation I do not shy from when I encounter such behavior.

[Tipi Walter]

I agree, I'd never leave a trap unattended in a shelter, but then I never use shelters as they not only lure in mice but motards who leave unsprung traps and go on their merry way. This is as you say stupid and cruel. The miscreants probably feel they are doing a service to future "shelterists" but like you say they are clueless to the aftereffects.

We leaves me with chewing mice in my tent.

[flatgrounder]

No vermin were harmed at the posting of this tread!

[Miel]

Just get a cat.

[daddytwosticks]

I agree, I'd never leave a trap unattended in a shelter, but then I never use shelters as they not only lure in mice but motards who leave unsprung traps and go on their merry way. This is as you say stupid and cruel. The miscreants probably feel they are doing a service to future "shelterists" but like you say they are clueless to the aftereffects.

We leaves me with chewing mice in my tent.

What's a motard? Is that a section hiker? Thru-hiker? Someone who is an ultralighter? Or is that one of your terms of endearment for someone who doesn't hike your way or violates one of your hiking rules?

Maybe the juvenile name calling should stop.

[Tipi Walter]

Daddytwosticks---A motard is someone in this discussion who is universally disdained for leaving baited traps in AT shelters unattended. Several people have expressed a strong dislike for these . . . miscreants. I may even go as far as calling them Detards.

Read Traveler's quote---
My issue in all this are those who opt to leave live traps behind them for others to deal with has been an issue with me for a while. Having seen a raccoon caught in a mouse trap by some dolt who left it in a shelter was all I had to witness to have strong opinions about that level of irresponsible behavior. The trap was apparently placed on a beam about 5' off the floor, near a shelf. The animal had gotten its front paw into the trap, breaking most of the small bones. The worst part was when the trap sprung, it slipped behind the beam and wedged so the animal could not pull it out. It must have struggled for a long time. We estimated at least two days given the scratch marks on the side of the shelter walls and the amount of blood from where it tried to gnaw off the paw. By the time we arrived, the animal was hanging by the paw, unable to put up a struggle when we freed it. We took the animal to a Vet, who took one look at the leg and saw the animal would never be able to use it again and the animal was put down.

[Wise Old Owl]

Daddytwosticks---A motard is someone in this discussion who is universally disdained for leaving baited traps in AT shelters unattended. Several people have expressed a strong dislike for these . . . miscreants. I may even go as far as calling them Detards.

Read Traveler's quote---
My issue in all this are those who opt to leave live traps behind them for others to deal with has been an issue with me for a while. Having seen a raccoon caught in a mouse trap by some dolt who left it in a shelter was all I had to witness to have strong opinions about that level of irresponsible behavior. The trap was apparently placed on a beam about 5' off the floor, near a shelf. The animal had gotten its front paw into the trap, breaking most of the small bones. The worst part was when the trap sprung, it slipped behind the beam and wedged so the animal could not pull it out. It must have struggled for a long time. We estimated at least two days given the scratch marks on the side of the shelter walls and the amount of blood from where it tried to gnaw off the paw. By the time we arrived, the animal was hanging by the paw, unable to put up a struggle when we freed it. We took the animal to a Vet, who took one look at the leg and saw the animal would never be able to use it again and the animal was put down.




wow - hard to stay out of the fray.... I honesty do not have any issue with the above posts. So lets discuss what most of you do not know about mice infestations.

1. they spread a wide variety of disease. Hunta virus is one, bubonic plague can be the other. One is from old airborne dried poop and the other is from fleas on the live mice... there are some 10-20 other virus/nasty's that would shove anyone into the hospital.

2. mice do not behave the same - rodents have different behaviors, chipmunks, whitefooted, house mouse, flying squirrels, red squirrel, grey squirrel, roof rats, pocket gophers, shrews, pack rats (look like mice) and Norway rats all drop different poop and different locations in the house. As an expert in this area its different in how I solve the problem. They all infest structures. The solutions are vastly different.

3. In what the majority of what we do professionally we do we use a wide amount of safety devices to prevent the above outcome described above.

4. that being said I have no trouble using the two best methods to eliminate mice in any structure. One is snap traps quick and humane the other is blood thinner.

Blood thinners back in the day were Warfarin and Coumadin which are the same thing. What is safe for grandma to help her live longer and is still used today in metered doses is safe, Mice eat too much... in a different Zoo situtation I use Vitamin D which all do the same thing... overwhelm the liver. Too much of anything will kill a mammal. Too much you drinking water will kill you... Too much alcohol will kill you... again this overwhelms the liver. People die all the time from liver disease due to alcohol. This form of death is very humane and most (from experience with friends and past relatives) realize something is wrong and quietly pass 24 - three days later.

So ponder this...
Bubonic plague Main article: Bubonic plague (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubonic_plague)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Plague_-buboes.jpg/220px-Plague_-buboes.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plague_-buboes.jpg)


Swollen inguinal lymph glands on a person infected with the bubonic plague. The swollen lymph glands are termed buboes from the Greek word for groin, swollen gland: bubo.


When a flea bites a human and contaminates the wound with regurgitated blood, the plague carrying bacteria are passed into the tissue. Y. pestis can reproduce inside cells, so even if phagocytosed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phagocytosis), they can still survive. Once in the body, the bacteria can enter the lymphatic system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymphatic_system), which drains interstitial fluid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstitial_fluid). Plague bacteria secrete several toxins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxin), one of which is known to cause dangerous beta-adrenergic blockade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_blocker).
Y. pestis spreads through the lymphatics of the infected human until it reaches a lymph node (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymph_node), where it stimulates severe haemorrhagic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding) inflammation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflammation) that causes the lymph nodes to expand. The expansion of lymph nodes is the cause of the characteristic "bubo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubo)" associated with the disease.
If the lymph node is overwhelmed, the infection can pass into the bloodstream, causing secondary septicemic plague and if the lungs are seeded, it can cause secondary pneumonic plague.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_%28disease%29#cite_note-4)
Septicemic plague Main article: Septicemic plague (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septicemic_plague)
Lymphatics ultimately drain into the bloodstream, so the plague bacteria may enter the blood and travel to almost any part of the body. In septicemic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septicemia) plague, bacterial endotoxins cause disseminated intravascular coagulation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disseminated_intravascular_coagulation) (DIC), causing tiny clots throughout the body and possibly ischaemic necrosis (tissue death due to lack of circulation/perfusion to that tissue) from the clots. DIC results in depletion of the body's clotting resources, so that it can no longer control bleeding. Consequently, there is bleeding into the skin and other organs, which can cause red and/or black patchy rash and hemoptysis/hematemesis (coughing up/ vomiting of blood). There are bumps on the skin that look somewhat like insect bites; these are usually red, and sometimes white in the center. Untreated, septicemic plague is usually fatal. Early treatment with antibiotics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotics) reduces the mortality rate to between 4 and 15 percent.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_%28disease%29#cite_note-Wagle1948-5)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_%28disease%29#cite_note-Meyer1950-6)[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_%28disease%29#cite_note-DattGupta1948-7) People who die from this form of plague often die on the same day symptoms first appear.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
Pneumonic plague Main article: Pneumonic plague (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonic_plague)
The pneumonic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonia) form of plague arises from infection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infection) of the lungs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_lung). It causes coughing and sneezing and thereby produces airborne (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_disease) droplets that contain bacterial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria) cells and are likely to infect anyone inhaling them. The incubation period (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incubation_period) for pneumonic plague is short, usually two to four days, but sometimes just a few hours. The initial signs are indistinguishable from several other respiratory illnesses; they include headache, weakness, and hemoptysis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoptysis) or hematemesis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hematemesis) (spitting or vomiting of blood). The course of the disease is rapid; unless diagnosed and treated soon enough, typically within a few hours, death may follow in one to six days; in untreated cases mortality is nearly 100%.[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_%28disease%29#cite_note-8)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_%28disease%29#cite_note-Hoffman1980-9)
Pharyngeal plague This is an uncommon form of plague that resembles tonsillitis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonsillitis) found in cases of close contact of patients with other forms of plague.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_%28disease%29#cite_note-10)
Meningeal plague This form of plague occurs when bacteria cross the blood-brain barrier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood-brain_barrier), leading to infectious meningitis.
Other clinical forms There are a few other rare manifestations of plague, including asymptomatic plague and abortive plague. Cellulocutaneous plague sometimes results in infection of the skin and soft tissue, often around the bite site of a flea

[Tipi Walter]

Wise Old Owl---Thanks for the rodent info. I can always learn more about rodents.

But mice have their place in the ecosystem, of course. You had some dire results from rodent interaction with humans but you left off the worse one for backpackers: Chew holes in tent floors.

[Puddlefish]

Wise Old Owl---Thanks for the rodent info. I can always learn more about rodents.

But mice have their place in the ecosystem, of course. You had some dire results from rodent interaction with humans but you left off the worse one for backpackers: Chew holes in tent floors.

Do you eat in your tent? Do you handle your tent with greasy fingers? Keep your foodbag in your tent? I can't imagine why a mouse would chew a hole in the tent floor otherwise.

[Tipi Walter]

Do you eat in your tent? Do you handle your tent with greasy fingers? Keep your foodbag in your tent? I can't imagine why a mouse would chew a hole in the tent floor otherwise.

Of course I eat in my tent. Every try to cook and eat dinner at -10F in a blizzard and not do it in your tent? Or do the same in a 2 day February rainstorm at 30F?

I quit hanging my food bags a couple years ago for several reasons---too hard to pull a 40 lb food bag up on a tree branch using a small bear line; too hard to keep my hung food dry in a deluge---even in a drysack. And several times I had a mouse follow my bear line down from the tree branch and down the line and into my food bag thru a . . . wait for it . . . chew hole.

In the Smokies I would not sleep with my food bags in the tent vestibule, but everywhere else it's my normal routine. But hanging food properly will not keep camp mice away from you or your tent. Some sites are worse than others---some have no mice, others have dozens. Mice like to chew on fabrics, sweaters, tent brand labels, floors, boots---you name it. They like to built nests with fibers from your gear. And they like to explore your camp and your person. I've had mice run over my face and body a hundred times in the last 30 years, whether I'm cowboy camping or tarp camping or tent camping or tipi camping.

As far as food smells, it must be remembered that no matter how far or how high you hang your food bags, your dinner-full stomach is still in your tent and it is full of food which any animal can smell. How would a person bear hang his stomach bag?? Or hide the simple odor of the human body, rich with body oils and sweat and in my case huge amounts of testosterone-rich pheromones??

[Puddlefish]

Of course I eat in my tent. Every try to cook and eat dinner at -10F in a blizzard and not do it in your tent? Or do the same in a 2 day February rainstorm at 30F?

I quit hanging my food bags a couple years ago for several reasons---too hard to pull a 40 lb food bag up on a tree branch using a small bear line; too hard to keep my hung food dry in a deluge---even in a drysack. And several times I had a mouse follow my bear line down from the tree branch and down the line and into my food bag thru a . . . wait for it . . . chew hole.

In the Smokies I would not sleep with my food bags in the tent vestibule, but everywhere else it's my normal routine. But hanging food properly will not keep camp mice away from you or your tent. Some sites are worse than others---some have no mice, others have dozens. Mice like to chew on fabrics, sweaters, tent brand labels, floors, boots---you name it. They like to built nests with fibers from your gear. And they like to explore your camp and your person. I've had mice run over my face and body a hundred times in the last 30 years, whether I'm cowboy camping or tarp camping or tent camping or tipi camping.

As far as food smells, it must be remembered that no matter how far or how high you hang your food bags, your dinner-full stomach is still in your tent and it is full of food which any animal can smell. How would a person bear hang his stomach bag?? Or hide the simple odor of the human body, rich with body oils and sweat and in my case huge amounts of testosterone-rich pheromones??

That's why you have more mouse issues than other people. Got it, thanks.

[Lone Wolf]

Do you eat in your tent? Do you handle your tent with greasy fingers? Keep your foodbag in your tent? I can't imagine why a mouse would chew a hole in the tent floor otherwise.

i do all that and never had a mouse chew through my tent

[Tipi Walter]

i do all that and never had a mouse chew through my tent

I believe you also said once you've never had mice chew holes in your food bags? And don't you keep your food bag with you by the tent? I find this impossible to understand. I've had dozens of food bags with rodent chew holes---and most of these were well-hung food bags away from camp and suspended. We must be camping in a whole different set of forests.

[Lone Wolf]

I believe you also said once you've never had mice chew holes in your food bags? And don't you keep your food bag with you by the tent? I find this impossible to understand. I've had dozens of food bags with rodent chew holes---and most of these were well-hung food bags away from camp and suspended. We must be camping in a whole different set of forests.

i always sleep with my food bag IN the tent. i never hang food except early on in my career when i stay in the occasional shelter

[Platypus2016]

The mice were the main reason I only slept in shelters during heavy rain (with the earth-shaking snorer coming in a close second). Even if you go out of your way to stay clean, not eat in shelters and hang ALL food..that doesn't mean that the other people do. It is just a necessary evil if you decide to stay in the shelters.

[ScareBear]

i've peed in my vestibule dozens of times cuz of hard rains

Glad i don't camp with you! We use an empty Nalgene wide-mouth as a piss bottle when it is to cold or wet to piss outside. I can't think of anything worse than boiling water in the morning for tea on top of piss sodden sod....GROSS....

[ScareBear]

Of course I eat in my tent. Every try to cook and eat dinner at -10F in a blizzard and not do it in your tent? Or do the same in a 2 day February rainstorm at 30F?

I quit hanging my food bags a couple years ago for several reasons---too hard to pull a 40 lb food bag up on a tree branch using a small bear line; too hard to keep my hung food dry in a deluge---even in a drysack. And several times I had a mouse follow my bear line down from the tree branch and down the line and into my food bag thru a . . . wait for it . . . chew hole.

In the Smokies I would not sleep with my food bags in the tent vestibule, but everywhere else it's my normal routine. But hanging food properly will not keep camp mice away from you or your tent. Some sites are worse than others---some have no mice, others have dozens. Mice like to chew on fabrics, sweaters, tent brand labels, floors, boots---you name it. They like to built nests with fibers from your gear. And they like to explore your camp and your person. I've had mice run over my face and body a hundred times in the last 30 years, whether I'm cowboy camping or tarp camping or tent camping or tipi camping.

As far as food smells, it must be remembered that no matter how far or how high you hang your food bags, your dinner-full stomach is still in your tent and it is full of food which any animal can smell. How would a person bear hang his stomach bag?? Or hide the simple odor of the human body, rich with body oils and sweat and in my case huge amounts of testosterone-rich pheromones??

A 40lb food bag? WTH? Seriously? What would your pack weight be wet? 70 pounds? That's crazy.
So is not hanging your food bag in bear country. I know very experienced thru hikers that keep their food bag in their tent, but only when they are above treeline.

Regarding mice/squirrels climbing down your bag rope? Simple solution is to bring a can of tuna fish. When you are done eating it, clean it, poke a hole in it, run the bag rope through it and anchor the empty tuna can 1 to 2 feet above the bag.

I use a dry bag for my food bag. Its waterproof and, being a dry bag, its odor-proof as well. 50 feet of reflective paracord and a flat rock and you are good to go. I've never had a rodent issue on the AT, but I base that primarily upon the fact that we refuse to sleep in the shelters. Ever.

[Tipi Walter]

Glad i don't camp with you! We use an empty Nalgene wide-mouth as a piss bottle when it is to cold or wet to piss outside. I can't think of anything worse than boiling water in the morning for tea on top of piss sodden sod....GROSS....

It's not so bad, and my tent vestibule is quite big enough for comfortable squatting, unlike some vesties which ARE NOT. When conditions are devilish and you don't want to foul your nalgene bottle with pee (or your cooking pot), vestibule-squatting is the time honored technique. When I leave camp I pile a bunch of dead leaves over the "latrine" and move on. Cuz I'll probably be coming back to this campsite next month.

Scarebear---Let's take it up a notch. When conditions are truly hellish (think blizzard at -10F with 60mph winds atop an open bald), some of us actually squat, catch and release an angry and bulging TURTLEHEAD on paper towels or a plastic bag while squatting in, yes, the tent vestibule. The weather is too frightful to leave the tent and so when the call of the Wild Turd hits, you have no choice but to set up a birthing station in the tent and release a 9 lb newborn turd.

Don't worry about it. A healthy dump is a wonderful thing and it means you'll live at least another 24 hours in decent health. In the worst conditions the thing will freeze solid in about one hour and then it can be swaddled and hand-carried to the nearest cathole which you dig at your convenience.

I know of one mountaineer who lined his cooking pot with a plastic gallon ziploc bag and took a healthy dump right in the pot with his friend in the tent with him, I guess supplying guidance and moral support. Later after the turd was properly packaged they cooked dinner in the very same pot. Bon appetit.

[Tipi Walter]

A 40lb food bag? WTH? Seriously? What would your pack weight be wet? 70 pounds? That's crazy.
So is not hanging your food bag in bear country. I know very experienced thru hikers that keep their food bag in their tent, but only when they are above treeline.


Actually, at the start of a trip with a 40+ food bag my pack is more like 85 lbs---also with winter gear.

And obviously you have never backpacked an area (or the AT) as an expedition 20+ day trip with one food load. Then you'd see your food weight go up to 45 lbs.

I pulled a 19 day trip (w/o resupply) on the AT back in June 2011 and didn't want to resupply as I was "out for the duration" and prefer this style of backpacking over frequent town visits. Once in the woods I don't want to see a town. Here's the trip---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-In-Mt-Rogers/i-C3kzNkv


Then in April 2012 I pulled a 20 day trip on the AT (to the same place----Mt Rogers) and carried another big food load. See---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/Tipi-Walter-Grayson-Highlands/


And recently in May 2014 I pulled a 21 day trip on the Benton MacKaye trail to connect to the AT south of Fontana and did the whole thing on one food load---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/21-Days-Yellow-Mt/i-tpSpK2p

So yes, it's possible and nothing to be worried about. Just carry the weight and you can stay out for much longer periods of time, the whole point of backpacking IN MY OPINION.

[Casey & Gina]

It's not so bad, and my tent vestibule is quite big enough for comfortable squatting, unlike some vesties which ARE NOT. When conditions are devilish and you don't want to foul your nalgene bottle with pee (or your cooking pot), vestibule-squatting is the time honored technique. When I leave camp I pile a bunch of dead leaves over the "latrine" and move on. Cuz I'll probably be coming back to this campsite next month.

Back in the day when tents had zippered portions in the floor designed for when you wanted to use your stove inside your tent (WHAT?!? PEOPLE ACTUALLY COOKED ANYWHERE NEAR THEIR TENT AND NOT STANDING OUT IN THE RAIN?), it was also commonly used as a place to relieve oneself (of urine, not turtleheads, as far as I know). Then you'd zipper it back up, and sleep right on top of it. Nevermind that the zipper wasn't waterproof, that was only an issue in hard rains.

[Casey & Gina]

Here's the trip---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-In-Mt-Rogers/i-C3kzNkv


Ugh, that poor injured fawn is heartbreaking. I wonder whether the kindest thing to do would be to end the suffering if you had the means in such a case. Not sure what I'd do.

[ScareBear]

It's not so bad, and my tent vestibule is quite big enough for comfortable squatting, unlike some vesties which ARE NOT. When conditions are devilish and you don't want to foul your nalgene bottle with pee (or your cooking pot), vestibule-squatting is the time honored technique. When I leave camp I pile a bunch of dead leaves over the "latrine" and move on. Cuz I'll probably be coming back to this campsite next month.

Scarebear---Let's take it up a notch. When conditions are truly hellish (think blizzard at -10F with 60mph winds atop an open bald), some of us actually squat, catch and release an angry and bulging TURTLEHEAD on paper towels or a plastic bag while squatting in, yes, the tent vestibule. The weather is too frightful to leave the tent and so when the call of the Wild Turd hits, you have no choice but to set up a birthing station in the tent and release a 9 lb newborn turd.

Don't worry about it. A healthy dump is a wonderful thing and it means you'll live at least another 24 hours in decent health. In the worst conditions the thing will freeze solid in about one hour and then it can be swaddled and hand-carried to the nearest cathole which you dig at your convenience.

I know of one mountaineer who lined his cooking pot with a plastic gallon ziploc bag and took a healthy dump right in the pot with his friend in the tent with him, I guess supplying guidance and moral support. Later after the turd was properly packaged they cooked dinner in the very same pot. Bon appetit.

When conditions are "hellish", as you put it, I can think of any number of reasons NOT to use the vestibule as your toilet. No mountaineer I know uses the vestibule as a toilet. Everyone uses their wide-mouth Nalgene. You rinse it out with boiling water the next morning from your tea making(or coffee). When it comes to crapping, when it is "hellish" outside you do what you gotta do and a gallon ziploc comes in mighty handy. If you've got the trots, then you will just have to suffer outside while you spray. Here's a time-honored trick for the ziploc. Turn it inside-out and flatten it. Crap in the middle. Put your hand inside the ziploc and turn it inside-out again. Crap is now safely enclosed in the ziploc. It aint rocket science, but who wants to smell your ammonia and uric acid wafting in from the vestibule all night long?

[ScareBear]

Actually, at the start of a trip with a 40+ food bag my pack is more like 85 lbs---also with winter gear.

And obviously you have never backpacked an area (or the AT) as an expedition 20+ day trip with one food load. Then you'd see your food weight go up to 45 lbs.

I pulled a 19 day trip (w/o resupply) on the AT back in June 2011 and didn't want to resupply as I was "out for the duration" and prefer this style of backpacking over frequent town visits. Once in the woods I don't want to see a town. Here's the trip---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-In-Mt-Rogers/i-C3kzNkv


Then in April 2012 I pulled a 20 day trip on the AT (to the same place----Mt Rogers) and carried another big food load. See---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/Tipi-Walter-Grayson-Highlands/


And recently in May 2014 I pulled a 21 day trip on the Benton MacKaye trail to connect to the AT south of Fontana and did the whole thing on one food load---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpack-2014-Trips-152/21-Days-Yellow-Mt/i-tpSpK2p

So yes, it's possible and nothing to be worried about. Just carry the weight and you can stay out for much longer periods of time, the whole point of backpacking IN MY OPINION.

Iron man, huh? I resupply on the AT around day 6 or 7. The only time my pack ever weighs more than 30 pounds wet is if I've got a duckie, snowshoes or skis lashed on it. Even in winter. Especially in winter...YMMV...

[Tipi Walter]

Iron man, huh? I resupply on the AT around day 6 or 7. The only time my pack ever weighs more than 30 pounds wet is if I've got a duckie, snowshoes or skis lashed on it. Even in winter. Especially in winter...YMMV...

I'm definitely no iron man. Weak, girlified, limp-wristed, knee-jerking, motarded(?), salivating, gluttonous, mincing steps (dainty), no upper body, calves like Popeye, dribbling urine stream---You name it but I 'tain't no iron man.

Just like to be in the woods. See no point in getting my pack squared and stepping off onto a trail and then leaving the mountains and the forest after a few days to palaver with non-rated non-hiking civilians in a town. In this kind of discussion, the old Jeremiah Johnson quote always comes up---

Del Gue: "Jeremiah, maybe you best go down to a town, get outta these mountains.
Jeremiah Johnson: I've been to a town Del."

[JansportD2]

I've never had a problem with mice. I don't stay in shelters and usually camp far away. I hang my food - mostly out of habit having started hiking as a kid out west. I drape my hiking clothes over my pack at night. The smell may keep the critters away.

[AtWokman]

I hang most my food and such. Open my pack zippers.
And tent away from the rodent breeding shacks.

Dump mouse 🐭 poo out of pack in morning.
Pack up & hike on

[AtWokman]

I Don't kill the mice...
I think Every time you kill one 2more are spawned.

[soumodeler]

I Don't kill the mice...
I think Every time you kill one 2more are spawned.

That explains a lot!