PDA

View Full Version : Camping on PA gamelands on the AT



moldy
02-23-2016, 13:14
Is it legal for me to drive to the AT trailhead parking lot then hike along the AT, camp in the woods on Game commission controlled land, then return to my car the next day. Legal or not?

SteelCut
02-23-2016, 13:25
Yes, you can. BTW, Google is your friend.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.42.html
(http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.42.html)
Relevant Info:
(c) Overnight camping. Overnight camping along the trail shall be lawful only in accordance with the act and this part.
(d) Unlawful acts. It is unlawful to camp:
(1) Overnight at a distance more than 200 feet from the designated trail.
(2) More than one night at the same location.
(3) Within 500 feet of a spring, stream or public access area.


But, I think I'd be more worried about my car at the trail head.

PAHiker
02-23-2016, 13:35
No.

§ 135.2. Unlawful actions.
In addition to the prohibitions in the act on lands, waters or buildings under Commission ownership, lease, agreement, control or jurisdiction, it is unlawful, except with the permission of the person in charge of the lands, or the written permission of the Director to:
(1) Camp or use campsites.


Except:


§ 135.42. Appalachian Trail.
(a) Scope. This section regulates through hikers who camp overnight on State Game Lands within the corridor of the trail.
(b) Definitions. The following words and terms, when used in this section, have the following meanings, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise:

(1) Public access area—An area where the public enters or exits the trail on game lands.

(2) Spring—A source of water issuing from the ground.

(3) Stream—A body of running water flowing on the earth.

(4) Through hikers—Persons walking the trail from a beginning area to an exit area on the trail which is not the place of beginning.

(5) Trail—The Appalachian Trail as authorized by the Pennsylvania Appalachian Trail Act (64 P. S. § § 801—805).
(c) Overnight camping. Overnight camping along the trail shall be lawful only in accordance with the act and this part.
(d) Unlawful acts. It is unlawful to camp:
(1) Overnight at a distance more than 200 feet from the designated trail.
(2) More than one night at the same location.
(3) Within 500 feet of a spring, stream or public access area.

moldy
02-23-2016, 13:36
What about this ditti from the ATC under Trail Updates"? It also reflected in the many posted signs you see in this area.

Camping Regulations: Only thru-hikers (defined as those "walking the Appalachian Trail from point of beginning to an exit, which is not the place of beginning) may camp on Pennsylvania Game Commission lands, and these hikers must camp within 200 ft of A.T., at least 500 ft from a stream or spring.

PAHiker
02-23-2016, 13:39
You can do a point A to point B backpack trip. No out and back or loops back to the start point.

SteelCut
02-23-2016, 13:41
Yes, you have a good point since your entry and exit are not different locations. I didn't catch that part of the regulations.

moldy
02-23-2016, 15:35
What an odd rule. I wonder why they care where you started and ended your hike? It only involves camping. Can you imagine standing in front of a judge after being arrested for camping on the trail and listening to the prosecution describe your crime?

ALLEGHENY
02-23-2016, 15:45
What an odd rule. I wonder why they care where you started and ended your hike? It only involves camping. Can you imagine standing in front of a judge after being arrested for camping on the trail and listening to the prosecution describe your crime?

Yeah,Just like the BSP rules. Who needs them.:rolleyes:

Sandy of PA
02-23-2016, 16:23
Because ONLY thru hikers are allowed to camp at all in the game lands, hunters may not.

Slo-go'en
02-23-2016, 17:31
What an odd rule. I wonder why they care where you started and ended your hike? It only involves camping. Can you imagine standing in front of a judge after being arrested for camping on the trail and listening to the prosecution describe your crime?

That's to discourage someone from "homesteading" a little into the woods from a parking lot. Realistically, no one would notice until you've been there a month.

BillyGr
02-24-2016, 12:23
You can do a point A to point B backpack trip. No out and back or loops back to the start point.

I suppose the question would be, how close are the access points? After all, if there were a couple accesses only a couple (or few) miles apart, one could enter at one, camp somewhere, exit at the other then walk back to their vehicle via the road and that would still follow the rules (since the road walk would be outside the game lands)?

coat4gun
02-24-2016, 12:56
PA State Gamelands were purchased with proceeds from hunting licenses and are reserved for hunting. Camping has been forbidden to retain undisturbed areas for hunting. There are concessions made to allow camping along the Appalachian trail which I think is nice but the State Gamelands main purpose is for a hunting preserve bought and paid for by hunters. I sometimes wish camping was less restricted but I see the point. It would be hard to hunt with a tent around every tree.

PAHiker
02-24-2016, 14:20
For a bit of historical trivia not related directly to the camping on gamelands issue - The primitive backpacking camping privilege we currently enjoy on PA State Forests (not gamelands) was not permitted until the early 1970's. Previous to that, primitive backpack camping on state forest lands was prohibited due to the possibility of forest fires from backpackers' campfires. The Loyalsock Trail, for example, initially had to be routed through privately owned properties in strategic locations in order to have legal backpacking campsites courtesy of the private landowners. That situation has certainly reversed its position in the past 40 years.

SkeeterPee
02-24-2016, 18:55
At any road crossing exit the trail for 50 yards. Then you are in compliance. take a picture to prove you exited. then re-enter trail and walk back to your car. Now sure it that would work, but I think you have a good argument you met the requirement.

ALLEGHENY
02-24-2016, 19:10
Why are people talking about getting around the rules? Obey the rules so not to give hikers a bad name. Mods.

SkeeterPee
02-24-2016, 19:19
Well I was somewhat joking, but I am not sure my suggestion would not be in compliance with a poorly worded rule.

4eyedbuzzard
02-24-2016, 20:06
Is it legal for me to drive to the AT trailhead parking lot then hike along the AT, camp in the woods on Game commission controlled land, then return to my car the next day. Legal or not?


You can do a point A to point B backpack trip. No out and back or loops back to the start point.


What an odd rule. I wonder why they care where you started and ended your hike? It only involves camping. Can you imagine standing in front of a judge after being arrested for camping on the trail and listening to the prosecution describe your crime?


Well I was somewhat joking, but I am not sure my suggestion would not be in compliance with a poorly worded rule.
In the words of Cartman, "Respect my Authority".

33809

If you dare question the wording of the reg, or suggest that it is vague, you will be chastised by PA authorities and deemed to be unreasonable and possess "dizzying logic". Read this prior thread on the subject http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/102592-PA-fire-regs

EDIT: ^^^ Joking about this, well, to some degree anyway.

4eyedbuzzard
02-24-2016, 21:04
....................

Fletcher Christian
04-04-2017, 01:41
Can you imagine standing in front of a judge after being arrested for camping on the trail and listening to the prosecution describe your crime?

As someone who spent upwards of $2,000 defending themselves against a BS charge by the game commission on principle when the fine was $180, I can tell you what it is like. The Magisterial Court (not a real judge, nor law degree required) is your first stop. After the judge stating unequivocally that there is no way that a crime could have been committed at the time of citation, but yet still finding guilty, you appeal to the court of common pleas. You do your homework, keep the game commission officer on the stand for 45 minutes, watch him purjure himself multiple times, see the assistant DA sweat bullets, and then get a not-guilty verdict. You then pay the $120 to get the transcript of the trial as you consider it your opus magnum. You also submit multiple freedom of information act requests against the game commission to cause them to do something for their paycheck. I hope to hike every mile of PA AT before I move away from this god-awful state so I never have to step foot in this place again.

rickb
04-04-2017, 03:39
As someone who spent upwards of $2,000 defending themselves against a BS charge by the game commission on principle when the fine was $180, I can tell you what it is like. The Magisterial Court (not a real judge, nor law degree required) is your first stop. After the judge stating unequivocally that there is no way that a crime could have been committed at the time of citation, but yet still finding guilty, you appeal to the court of common pleas. You do your homework, keep the game commission officer on the stand for 45 minutes, watch him purjure himself multiple times, see the assistant DA sweat bullets, and then get a not-guilty verdict. You then pay the $120 to get the transcript of the trial as you consider it your opus magnum. You also submit multiple freedom of information act requests against the game commission to cause them to do something for their paycheck. I hope to hike every mile of PA AT before I move away from this god-awful state so I never have to step foot in this place again.

Now there is a story I would like to hear around a campfire! Any chance of a more detailed accounting on line?

Malto
04-04-2017, 07:58
Now there is a story I would like to hear around a campfire! Any chance of a more detailed accounting on line?

Yes, please. I would love to understand what happened since I play in these woods.

Fletcher Christian
04-04-2017, 14:29
I'll revisit this and post a detailed narrative of the events. Unfortunately, I have a lot going on right now and can't really give it the attention it deserves, so rather than type a less than adequate description, I'll come back hopefully within a few weeks and revisit. In the meantime, anyone backpacking the AT north of Hamburg, if you are stopped by WCO Matthew P. Teehan, don't speak to him. If he's going to cite you, let him cite you and fight it in court. But, don't say a damned thing to him. He makes it his personal hobby to cite people on the AT during the summer (and I have the FOIA game commission records to prove it) along with a couple other officers since they have nothing else to occupy their time with when there is no hunting citations to write.

somers515
04-04-2017, 17:57
Posting to follow!