EBT Cards and Thr Hikers

[rickb]

The former Kennebec Ferry operator was quoted by ALDHA to say:


many youngerhikers will carry expensive gear anduse their cellphones to check on un-employment and food stamp benefitsas they hitch a ride to a store that ac-cepts EBT cards, all while askingwhere they can buy beer and ciga-rettes.

If it were even one thru hiker, that would be reprehensible, but to hear that many are doing this is shocking.

Can any recent thru hikers confirm that many of the younger hikers are doing what the former ferry opperator was quoted as saying they are with regard to EBT cards?

[hubcap]

my post duplicated....see below.

[hubcap]

I try not to judge anyone. Many things are sad, and not right. I try to improve myself and leave others the freedom to do the same at their own pace and method. I have never been "dependent." I have worked since I was 11, and am debt free. I wish all those who are dependent on the gov't EBT system the hope to stand on their own one day. It's a good feeling.

[SWODaddy]

That's pretty sad if true.

[Puddlefish]

Whenever I see these kind of accusations about "many" I just mentally change it to "probably none that I've personally witnessed." Way too many people make up stories like these to support their agenda. Left/right/whatever, people make stuff up.

Sure, a certain subset of any population will abuse something that's meant to be positive and helpful, but this just sounds like someone who's frustrated with their job and their life and wanting to demonize their opponents, rather than address their own problems.

[Brewguy]

I don't understand the problem? Unemployment keeps people from working. Why does it matter to you if they sit at home and watch tv and drink beer or if they hike and drink beer?

[Pajj]

Can we please stop throwing all the blame on "younger hikers"? There were plenty of bum types along the trail last year and the worst of them were not the younger hikers.
I'm a recent thru hiker and I can confirm that NO this is not true. Really getting tired of people acting like all the thru hikers in recent years are *****bags or something.

[Mags]

Can we please stop throwing all the blame on "younger hikers"? There were plenty of bum types along the trail last year and the worst of them were not the younger hikers.


I agree. I am one of the older cousins in my family, but the other half of the 16 grandchildren are under-30. Hell, the youngest just turned 20.

No surprise, they have the same values as the older cousins. (Actually, since I left RI and they are still there, they are more conservative than I am! :D)

It is not an age thing, it is cultural issue.

I know 40-somethings who essentially funded their climbing vacation by a "charity" event (ha!), another one who did a GoFundMe to open a business that went belly up in less than 3 months and so on.

[shakey_snake]

You can't use EBT to buy alcohol or tobacco.

[kayak karl]

I don't understand the problem? Unemployment keeps people from working. Why does it matter to you if they sit at home and watch tv and drink beer or if they hike and drink beer? Unemployment keeps people from working??? and what does it have to do with EBT cards ??

[TNhiker]

this is no different than "real" life......

[Sparkeh]

Keep Politics off the trail!!!!!!

[bigcranky]

"Food stamps" are pretty well limited to families; it's hard for a single young adult to qualify. Unemployment benefits are available to people who have lost jobs, limited to a short time, and usually include a requirement to be looking for work. I'd be surprised if "younger hikers" were able to qualify for these benefits and be on the trail.

[TexasBob]

I don't understand the problem? Unemployment keeps people from working. Why does it matter to you if they sit at home and watch tv and drink beer or if they hike and drink beer?


Unemployment keeps people from working???

I am trying to figure that one out also. Maybe Brewguy can explain it for us.

[DuneElliot]

Unemployment is something that you and your company pay to the state via taxes...it is earned through a paycheck and helps those on rough times when they lose a job through no fault of their own. I work for a company that lays-off all non-essential employees every summer for 3 months with a "job attached" status, meaning that we have a job to go back to and don't have to look for work. I do use this time to hike and camp and fish and ride my horses.

Unemployment is not welfare and I don't apply for food stamps. I also save my money during my work year to be able to have fun in the summer. Is their a chance I will use the few months off in the summer to pursue a thru-hike...absolutely! I work hard and work for a company that provides this option, and also in a job that is deathly dull because of the three months off.

[Don H]

Ferry Operator Quits Over Hiker Behavior, Other Issues, article here, page 11: http://www.aldha.org/newsletter/2015d_winter.pdf

I thought he quit because he couldn't get the ATC to increase service.

Considering how the ferryman feels it's probably best that he's not providing the service any longer.

[ALLEGHENY]

The former Kennebec Ferry operator was quoted by ALDHA to say:



If it were even one thru hiker, that would be reprehensible, but to hear that many are doing this is shocking.

Can any recent thru hikers confirm that many of the younger hikers are doing what the former ferry opperator was quoted as saying they are with regard to EBT cards?

A few years back I was wrong to flame a guy that came on here boasting that he was attempting a triple crown yo yo with a$200 access card. Taking a vacation on the Dept. of Agriculture's expense I cried.


Last I heard he met some good folks here and made it to Katahdin. Someone helped get him a job and he became a productive tax paying member of the good old US of A. If what I've heard is true, I'm sorry D.J.
Sometimes we just need a hand up.
Not a hand out.

Where is D.J?

[Lone Wolf]

back in florida

[ALLEGHENY]

Wish him well.

[mattjv89]

He singled out “the millennialgeneration” and said many youngerhikers will carry expensive gear anduse their cellphones

Can't dispute this in many cases, enough folks out there hiking on their last dollar sporting a couple thousand worth of gear on their back. They aren't all young though.


to check on unemploymentand food stamp benefitsas they hitch a ride to a store that acceptsEBT cards,

Didn't see it happen a single time or even hear about it.


all while askingwhere they can buy beer and cigarettes.

Can't dispute that either, I was a smoker for about 1700 miles and you can be sure I never forgot to resupply on tobacco. Heard enough people say they're broke or close to it while unwrapping a fresh pack. That really isn't news though, nor is it exclusive to hikers young or old. It's no secret that addictions get higher priority than other needs.

I don't doubt that someone or some people said something to Dave about using food stamps or other benefits on the trail but I saw no indication of it being a widespread practice, or happening at all. Overall sounds like another "kids these days" rant, it's trendy right now to talk about how awful every single hiker under the age of 30 is. In my experience it really was a case of the few ruining it for the many. I can think of 8 or 10 trail names that came up over and over and over again in association with all the bad behavior of the past season. I'm digressing but I share the frustration of another young poster, it gets old being lumped in with this crap that I and many others had nothing to do with.

[Slo-go'en]

The only occasion I ran into this was at Gatlinburg with a old, retired guy. He paid for my food at the grocery store with his Florida EBT card, I then reimbursed him with cash so he could buy whisky.

[Miel]

You can't use EBT to buy alcohol or tobacco.

So true, and a bunch of other things.

The person quoted sounds like someone who hates low-income people, and is just perpetuating the welfare fraud myth.

But if someone wants to use his/her food stamps card to buy *food* while hiking, why shouldn't they? It's legal, and it is their right as EBT card recipients.

[ALLEGHENY]

So true, and a bunch of other things.

The person quoted sounds like someone who hates low-income people, and is just perpetuating the welfare fraud myth.

But if someone wants to use his/her food stamps card to buy *food* while hiking, why shouldn't they? It's legal, and it is their right as EBT card recipients.

I don't have a source but some say the true unemployment is somewhere around 10%. How many family's are receiving assistance in this country? I think that welfare has some part in propping up this economy.

[MuddyWaters]

So true, and a bunch of other things.

The person quoted sounds like someone who hates low-income people, and is just perpetuating the welfare fraud myth.

But if someone wants to use his/her food stamps card to buy *food* while hiking, why shouldn't they? It's legal, and it is their right as EBT card recipients.

The issue is that persons healthy enough to hike the trail, are obviously able to work and arent actively pursuing it as they should be. They are taking advantage of the safety net system to fund a vacation instead.

What is the real unemployment rate?

Far, far higher than anything you will hear or read from mainstream media or government. Heres the problem, you have to be LOOKING for a job, to be counted as unemployed. Many arent looking. Its not because they are idle rich. 20-25% of the country doesnt work. Including the amount that does, that STILL depends on goverment handouts, and the percentage is much higher.

How high? in 2011 it was 49% of the country paid no income tax, and received government benefits.

49%, Let that sink in.

45% or so of the population is dependent on goverment handouts.
No problem ?


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xZVE-KtaLqY/VNEbb3Us_kI/AAAAAAAAcUA/ZUzKCCL4NTg/s1600/employment%2Brate%2B25-54A.png

[Tuckahoe]

Unemployment is something that you and your company pay to the state via taxes...it is earned through a paycheck and helps those on rough times when they lose a job through no fault of their own. I work for a company that lays-off all non-essential employees every summer for 3 months with a "job attached" status, meaning that we have a job to go back to and don't have to look for work. I do use this time to hike and camp and fish and ride my horses.

Unemployment is not welfare and I don't apply for food stamps. I also save my money during my work year to be able to have fun in the summer. Is their a chance I will use the few months off in the summer to pursue a thru-hike...absolutely! I work hard and work for a company that provides this option, and also in a job that is deathly dull because of the three months off.

Unemployment benefits are financed by payroll taxes levied on the employer, NOT employees.

This topic has come up before on this forum and it is important to note for those that think they can hit the trail while on unemployment benefits, when on unemployment one is obligated to be actively searching for a job, and available for recall to previous employer or for hire.

[Brewguy]

I am trying to figure that one out also. Maybe Brewguy can explain it for us.

Guys it's not that hard to understand. Having a steady income coming in allows you to not be in as much of a hurry to get a job. Most people I know unemployment almost runs out before they get a job. Most times it's because they are not looking that hard.

You could be looking for jobs while on the trail.

Not sure what an ebt card is, unemployment comes on a debit mastercard, is that the same thing?

[MuddyWaters]

Guys it's not that hard to understand. Having a steady income coming in allows you to not be in as much of a hurry to get a job. Most people I know unemployment almost runs out before they get a job. Most times it's because they are not looking that hard.

You could be looking for jobs while on the trail.




And you can always apply to jobs that you know wont hire you.........

[Wise Old Owl]

Please allow me to clear up a few misconceptions.
My son has EBT and has a full time job and is 26. My best guess is - it doesn't matter if you have a job or not, he qualified as living on his own with his then 3 year old with no job at the time. He got a job part-time and then after a year or two got to 3rd shift full time. The state adjusts it down as his wage improves. This is from experience, my son is not cheating on the system. Mom is long gone. Most of the posts above have little to do with EBT. Please take the time and check out the rules on the .gov sites or state sites. So yes I would accept that many younger people may be toting the EBT card on the trail. IMO

[ALLEGHENY]

Unemployment benefits are financed by payroll taxes levied on the employer, NOT employees.

This topic has come up before on this forum and it is important to note for those that think they can hit the trail while on unemployment benefits, when on unemployment one is obligated to be actively searching for a job, and available for recall to previous employer or for hire.


[QUOTE=Tuckahoe;2045908]Unemployment benefits are financed by payroll taxes levied on the employer, NOT employees.


It is premium for unemployment insurance. In PA they take it right out of my pay.

http://www.ask.com/business-finance/pa-sui-tax-934544fe514e8449

[ALLEGHENY]

[QUOTE=Tuckahoe;2045908]Unemployment benefits are financed by payroll taxes levied on the employer, NOT employees.


It is premium for unemployment insurance. In PA they take it right out of my pay.


The Pennsylvania Department of Labor and Industry notes that for employee SUI contributions, there is no maximum amount of wages that can be taxed. An employee pays the SUI tax on all applicable wages, although the employer only makes a contribution based on each employee's wages up to $8,750.

http://www.ask.com/business-finance/pa-sui-tax-934544fe514e8449

The Pennsylvania Department of Labor and Industry notes that for employee SUI contributions, there is no maximum amount of wages that can be taxed. An employee pays the SUI tax on all applicable wages, although the employer only makes a contribution based on each employee's wages up to $8,750.

[CamelMan]

I don't have a source but some say the true unemployment is somewhere around 10%. How many family's are receiving assistance in this country? I think that welfare has some part in propping up this economy.

Here you go. (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm) And U-6 is probably not the end-all of measuring wasted human potential, either.

One person's spending is another person's income, just like one person's debt is another person's asset. So this kind of debate is always just a debate about who or what is worthy or unworthy to receive benefits or tax breaks. There's welfare for Morgan Stanley, why not Stanley down the street or on the trail? The person on the trail spends it right away anyway, so it may as well be considered a direct subsidy to the companies that receive the cash. Walking around Appalachia and spreading the government cheese around is pretty much exactly what I would want somebody to be doing with my tax dollars if I wanted to help the local economy. (I would also want to keep them out of the larger chain stores and restaurants so the money doesn't disappear from the area.)

Finally, I just have to mention that the economy is different than when older generations were young. There hasn't been a rise in real (inflation-adjusted) wages since the 1970s, and all sorts of people (not just politicans, but Suze Orman comes to mind) are blaming it on people's personal spending habits, or lack of initiative, or whatever, when in reality they're just being squeezed more. This lurking horror (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/health/death-rates-rising-for-middle-aged-white-americans-study-finds.html?_r=0) is the result of people's own inability to stop blaming themselves and start looking at the system. Pitting one group against another is just a divide-and-conquer strategy.

[ALLEGHENY]

Unemployment benefits are financed by payroll taxes levied on the employer, NOT employees.

This topic has come up before on this forum and it is important to note for those that think they can hit the trail while on unemployment benefits, when on unemployment one is obligated to be actively searching for a job, and available for recall to previous employer or for hire.


I started my thru hike 2-29- 2012 and did not file for UC benefits while hiking. I did not want to loose future benefits. I was not available for work so not eligible to file. When I got done I got work. I got laid off in a short time. I reopened my account and was glad I had not jeopardized my UC BENIFITS.

[Tuckahoe]

[QUOTE=Tuckahoe;2045908]Unemployment benefits are financed by payroll taxes levied on the employer, NOT employees.


It is premium for unemployment insurance. In PA they take it right out of my pay.

http://www.ask.com/business-finance/pa-sui-tax-934544fe514e8449

No, sorry not misinformed at all. You just happen to live in one of three states -- Alaska, Pennsylvania and New Jersey -- that tax both the employer and employee. It's is a state withholding, the 47 other states and the Federal Government only tax the employer.

[ALLEGHENY]

Here you go. (http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm) And U-6 is probably not the end-all of measuring wasted human potential, either.

One person's spending is another person's income, just like one person's debt is another person's asset. So this kind of debate is always just a debate about who or what is worthy or unworthy to receive benefits or tax breaks. There's welfare for Morgan Stanley, why not Stanley down the street or on the trail? The person on the trail spends it right away anyway, so it may as well be considered a direct subsidy to the companies that receive the cash. Walking around Appalachia and spreading the government cheese around is pretty much exactly what I would want somebody to be doing with my tax dollars if I wanted to help the local economy. (I would also want to keep them out of the larger chain stores and restaurants so the money doesn't disappear from the area.)

Finally, I just have to mention that the economy is different than when older generations were young. There hasn't been a rise in real (inflation-adjusted) wages since the 1970s, and all sorts of people (not just politicans, but Suze Orman comes to mind) are blaming it on people's personal spending habits, or lack of initiative, or whatever, when in reality they're just being squeezed more. This lurking horror (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/health/death-rates-rising-for-middle-aged-white-americans-study-finds.html?_r=0) is the result of people's own inability to stop blaming themselves and start looking at the system. Pitting one group against another is just a divide-and-conquer strategy.


THANKS CamelMan
There's more to the picture than meets the ear.

[ALLEGHENY]

[QUOTE=ALLEGHENY;2045931]

No, sorry not misinformed at all. You just happen to live in one of three states -- Alaska, Pennsylvania and New Jersey -- that tax both the employer and employee. It's is a state withholding, the 47 other states and the Federal Government only tax the employer.

How lucky am I to not live in a right to work for free state.

[CamelMan]

There's a lot more to say in this thread, but not with my low post count on this board, so maybe next time.. ;)

[ALLEGHENY]

Feel free to speak. It's only talking.

[Heliotrope]

In the early years of my business. I was shocked to find out that two of my employees were using unemployment money to fund their winter trip to Puerto Rico. We run a seasonal business and cannot keep employees through the winter. As owners we worked hard to scrape by in the lean winter months while the employees enjoyed a sweet vacation .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FooFooCuddlyPoops]

I am not sure how it is now, but maybe Puerto Rico was cheaper than staying here through the winter. I know freinds that go to Mexico when the farms die off just to use their money more wisely through the slow season.

[FooFooCuddlyPoops]

Hey guys

i wanted to add my two sense into the whole ebt business. Not everyone who has a ebt card is disabled, young, old, or poor. I have a va state ebt card to help me through the winter months when my job is slow. I am also a working college student living on her own.

I do not have loans to back me up, or financial air. I paid out of pocket for my associates degree by working. Ebt for me has kept bread on the table when otherwise I was going to just go hungry. I remember when I was taken off for a short amount of time and had to have a weekly food budget of less than $15. Forget vegetables and meat. I had ramen noodles, and discount canned food.

Sure call all it college life, but it was beyond college life for me.

where I live, jobs are scarce. I have the only good one and even than, it's not safe. Someone from my job just recently was arrested at work for drinking and driving. He had been warned numerous times to no avail. Boss wouldn't fire him because it's hard to train another driver.

I am trying to get a degree to get out of this town.

anyway; I work part time, five days a week. If I work over time, the us government puts me in a different tax bracket and my paycheck a actually end up lower than minimal part time. It's stupid, and unfair but again...small rural town...most money for your work job.

now. I am preparing for a section hike this summer. Yes, I will probably have ebt with me. This hike is indeed a luxury thing to do for me. Maybe I will even have a drink or two off the trail.

Food stamps helps me through the rough spots, and gives me a extra boost to keep me on land when things look good.

[ALLEGHENY]

[QUOTE=Heliotrope;2045948]In the early years of my business. I was shocked to find out that two of my employees were using unemployment money to fund their winter trip to Puerto Rico. We run a seasonal business and cannot keep employees through the winter. As owners we worked hard to scrape by in the lean winter months while the employees enjoyed a sweet vacation .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE




After they were called back to work, Ill bet they were willing to come back as loyal employees and work hard for their compensation. Or did hire new people every season?

[rocketsocks]

There's a lot more to say in this thread, but not with my low post count on this board, so maybe next time.. ;)yur doin' fine bub, let her rip!

[ALLEGHENY]

Hey guys

i wanted to add my two sense into the whole ebt business. Not everyone who has a ebt card is disabled, young, old, or poor. I have a va state ebt card to help me through the winter months when my job is slow. I am also a working college student living on her own.

I do not have loans to back me up, or financial air. I paid out of pocket for my associates degree by working. Ebt for me has kept bread on the table when otherwise I was going to just go hungry. I remember when I was taken off for a short amount of time and had to have a weekly food budget of less than $15. Forget vegetables and meat. I had ramen noodles, and discount canned food.

Sure call all it college life, but it was beyond college life for me.

where I live, jobs are scarce. I have the only good one and even than, it's not safe. Someone from my job just recently was arrested at work for drinking and driving. He had been warned numerous times to no avail. Boss wouldn't fire him because it's hard to train another driver.

I am trying to get a degree to get out of this town.

anyway; I work part time, five days a week. If I work over time, the us government puts me in a different tax bracket and my paycheck a actually end up lower than minimal part time. It's stupid, and unfair but again...small rural town...most money for your work job.

now. I am preparing for a section hike this summer. Yes, I will probably have ebt with me. This hike is indeed a luxury thing to do for me. Maybe I will even have a drink or two off the trail.

Food stamps helps me through the rough spots, and gives me a extra boost to keep me on land when things look good.


:(:mad::( So much disparity.http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon9.pnghttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon8.png

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

FooFoo is misinformed as to overtime causing the US Government to tax her at a greater rate. Certainly the withholdings can go up with a greater amount of weekly pay, but that is merely a mechanical issue with withholdings. The withholdings are still her monies, she just has to file a tax return to get them back. With very limited income, student status, and qualification for EBT, FooFoo should consider filing Form W-4 and the Virginia equivalent with her employer and claim exemption from withholding.

Morgan Stanley does not receive "welfare" payments from the government. Morgan Stanley IS allowed to deduct the costs of doing business from its gross income in the calculation of its net taxable income. It's the same for every businessperson, be they investment firms, plumbers, mechanics, or outdoor outfitters. Some call the mere allowance of big businesses to claim deductions for their ordinary and necessary expenses "corporate welfare". The term "corporate welfare" is a misused and meaningless buzz word which few understand but many toss out there claiming it as fact.

Just in the past couple of years, with the onset of ACA health insurance coverage (ObamaCare), there have been WB posters openly pondering how their choices to take 6 months off, thus limiting their incomes, would put them in position to qualify for heavily-subsidized health insurance while on the trail. Their angle was to purposely impoverish themselves in order to qualify for thousands of dollars of subsidies and they're thus using the subsidies as one of the methods of financing their hike. Since ACA subsidies are strictly based on annual income, not assets or income potential, it's perfectly legal to set it up in the fashion pondered by the posters. Perfectly legal, but entirely wrong in the ethical sense.

AO

[Traveler]

The former Kennebec Ferry operator was quoted by ALDHA to say:

many youngerhikers will carry expensive gear anduse their cellphones to check on un-employment and food stamp benefitsas they hitch a ride to a store that ac-cepts EBT cards, all while askingwhere they can buy beer and ciga-rettes.

If it were even one thru hiker, that would be reprehensible, but to hear that many are doing this is shocking.

Can any recent thru hikers confirm that many of the younger hikers are doing what the former ferry opperator was quoted as saying they are with regard to EBT cards?

Anecdotes are not data.

[LoneStranger]

...
How high? in 2011 it was 49% of the country paid no income tax, and received government benefits.

49%, Let that sink in.

45% or so of the population is dependent on goverment handouts.
No problem ?...

If you are implying that my 88 year old, crippled mother should reject the SSI check she earned by working her whole life and get a job, then you are a terrible person. If you are just using statistics in a weasley way in order to make a specious point then you are a worse person.

You have some valid things to say on the subject of hiking/backpacking as I've seen from your previous posts. From now on when I see your name I will only remember this one.

[Heliotrope]

[QUOTE=Heliotrope;2045948]In the early years of my business. I was shocked to find out that two of my employees were using unemployment money to fund their winter trip to Puerto Rico. We run a seasonal business and cannot keep employees through the winter. As owners we worked hard to scrape by in the lean winter months while the employees enjoyed a sweet vacation .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE




After they were called back to work, Ill bet they were willing to come back as loyal employees and work hard for their compensation. Or did hire new people every season?

They were hired back because they were good at what they did. However, the next winter they went to a ski resort in our state and worked there. And they still collected unemployment because they were working as independent contractors. [emoji12]
I wasn't angry at these guys. I just have seen many people work the unemployment game. It's almost part of the lifestyle here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TexasBob]

removed post

[soilman]

On my AT thru hike I ran into a fellow from the west coast at Standing Bear Farms who was hiking while drawing unemployment. My guess he was in his thirties. He needed to periodically "check in" to maintain his benefits. He was talking to Curtis for a shuttle to Hot Springs to accomplish this.

[Puddlefish]

I've always found it best to treat people on a case by case basis. Anecdotal data is only marginally useful to me if I know and trust the person relating their tale to me. General population data is not necessarily pertinent on an individual basis.

Understanding Statistics 101 should be a required high school course. If you don't understand statistics, it doesn't mean you're a bad person, but it does mean you can be easily led to the wrong conclusion.

[MuddyWaters]

If you are implying that my 88 year old, crippled mother should reject the SSI check she earned by working her whole life and get a job, then you are a terrible person. If you are just using statistics in a weasley way in order to make a specious point then you are a worse person.

You have some valid things to say on the subject of hiking/backpacking as I've seen from your previous posts. From now on when I see your name I will only remember this one.

No, Im referring ONLY to working age persons,18-54

[AlyontheAT2016]

in 2011 it was 49% of the country paid no income tax, and received government benefits.

49%, Let that sink in.



I'm part of that 49%, because I did not even earn enough last year to be required to pay income tax. Please do not base your conclusions on assumptions about people and situations you know very little about.

[Don H]

"Originally Posted by rickb http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/117169-EBT-Cards-and-Thr-Hikers/showthread.php?p=2045708#post2045708)The former Kennebec Ferry operator was quoted by ALDHA to say:

many youngerhikers will carry expensive gear anduse their cellphones to check on un-employment and food stamp benefitsas they hitch a ride to a store that ac-cepts EBT cards, all while askingwhere they can buy beer and ciga-rettes.

If it were even one thru hiker, that would be reprehensible, but to hear that many are doing this is shocking.

Can any recent thru hikers confirm that many of the younger hikers are doing what the former ferry opperator was quoted as saying they are with regard to EBT cards?


Anecdotes are not data.

Which makes you wonder why the ALDHA would even print this statement that paints a poor picture with such broad generalizations about a large group of hikers who incidentally may just be future members?

[Puddlefish]

"Originally Posted by rickbhttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/117169-EBT-Cards-and-Thr-Hikers/showthread.php?p=2045708#post2045708)The former Kennebec Ferry operator was quoted by ALDHA to say:

many youngerhikers will carry expensive gear anduse their cellphones to check on un-employment and food stamp benefitsas they hitch a ride to a store that ac-cepts EBT cards, all while askingwhere they can buy beer and ciga-rettes.

If it were even one thru hiker, that would be reprehensible, but to hear that many are doing this is shocking.

Can any recent thru hikers confirm that many of the younger hikers are doing what the former ferry opperator was quoted as saying they are with regard to EBT cards?



Which makes you wonder why the ALDHA would even print this statement that paints a poor picture with such broad generalizations about a large group of hikers who incidentally may just be future members?

It's a good question Don. It all seems political to me, like they're passing on anecdotal, possibly false, and quite frankly irrelevant (to their mission) information, for some vague purpose. Are they hoping the ATC will screen thru-hikers for their financial status? Hoping the ATC will get involved and fight the causes of poverty? Or are they just conveying that they had a cranky opinionated ferry operator? It doesn't make a lot of sense however you slice it.

Don't anyone get me wrong, I have strong opinions on work ethic and feeling good about earning what you're able to earn, causes of poverty, and a thousand other thoughts on this topic. It would require volumes to convey however, and most importantly, it's just largely irrelevant to backpacking.

[FooFooCuddlyPoops]

Ignorance in this forum is really top notch now days.

I do do my taxes. Which is what is funding my section hike. Before this year, i always saved my tax money and used it where is needed. This is my first year that i wont have payments in college, and i want to do something for myself. Which is hike.

As far as over pay, what good is it when the money comes at the end of the year? This summer, I worked 50 hour weeks and my paycheck side by side of my normal check was 60 odd dolars lower. it didnt matter that the money would come later in the year if I couldnt pay my car insurance now.

[Tuckahoe]

Foofoo, the suggest was being made that you should look into getting an income withholding exemption, especially if you actually do not earn enough to pay Federal income tax. That would mean more money in immediately your pocket and not having to wait in the return.

[Tuckahoe]

Dang I miss that edit button.

[lonehiker]

Foofoo, the suggest was being made that you should look into getting an income withholding exemption, especially if you actually do not earn enough to pay Federal income tax. That would mean more money in immediately your pocket and not having to wait in the return.

I have no clue what the poster is talking about when he says "getting an income withholding exemption," but I do know that this is as simple as submitting a new W4 with your employer and changing your withholding to say single and 9 (or whatever)... The problem with not having enough withheld is that most people are not disciplined enough to save the money in the event that they may actually owe taxes.

[ALLEGHENY]

I have no clue what the poster is talking about when he says "getting an income withholding exemption," but I do know that this is as simple as submitting a new W4 with your employer and changing your withholding to say single and 9 (or whatever)... The problem with not having enough withheld is that most people are not disciplined enough to save the money in the event that they may actually owe taxes.

The young lady Foo Foo is exempt if she owed no taxes the prior year and expects to owe no taxes this year.
AS simple as writing exempt in the box on line 7 on the W4 form.

[Wise Old Owl]

If you are implying that my 88 year old, crippled mother should reject the SSI check she earned by working her whole life and get a job, then you are a terrible person. If you are just using statistics in a weasley way in order to make a specious point then you are a worse person.

You have some valid things to say on the subject of hiking/backpacking as I've seen from your previous posts. From now on when I see your name I will only remember this one.

LS this has nothing to do with Grandma. I am sure she is doing her best and I hope you are visiting her... Family is important. The starter post was 20+ somethings were on the dole. Let's keep this on track.

[soilman]

I don't know where one can get empirical data on thru hikers financial support. I don't doubt that there are people hiking that are receiving government assistance or collecting unemployment.

[rickb]

The starter post was 20+ somethings were on the dole. Let's keep this on track.

Actually, on the dole while carrying expensive gear and using their cell phones while hitching to stores to buy beer and cigarettes.

Or so it was reported by someone "in the know" and whose narrative was shared by the preeminent thru hiking organization.

[imscotty]

To those who have taken offense at MuddyWaters comments, I would like to add my own.

I believe it does indicate a problem that those who receive government assistance without paying taxes approaches the 50% mark. This represents a 'Tipping Point' in the history of the country. The natural trend will be for people to vote for politicians who promise larger and large government programs whose cost will be placed on the backs on fewer and fewer workers. This country is changing.

To be concerned about this is not a criticism of you or your grandma, but I think it is a legitimate concern. I see the fabric of this country changing from one that promotes self reliance and hard work, to one where people increasingly look to the government to solve all their problems. I am not here to argue that one view is better than other, but please understand that at least this crusty old guy finds the change disturbing and worries about the future that his children are inheriting.

To the OP, I have no idea if the story is true or not or if this is a widespread phenomenon. I have no control over other peoples behavior, or our government system, and certainly a post here is not going to make a lick of difference. I can tell you I would never take a six month vacation if I was not able to pay for it myself. Someone able bodied enough to walk 2000 miles, should be able enough to provide for themselves.

[Busky2]

This is without doubt the dumbest "hiking thread" on this site I have read yet. I can't believe I read every post wasting time better spent doing far more important things like clipping my toe nails or snoring.

[George]

I believe it does indicate a problem that those who receive government assistance without paying taxes approaches the 50% mark. This represents a 'Tipping Point' in the history of the country. The natural trend will be for people to vote for politicians who promise larger and large government programs whose cost will be placed on the backs on fewer and fewer workers.


there is political theory that this is practically inevitable in any republic/ democracy and the largess that the public will vote for themselves must eventually lead to collapse

- the Roman empire was supporting a large dependent population at the time of it's demise

[George]

This is without doubt the dumbest "hiking thread" on this site I have read yet. I can't believe I read every post wasting time better spent doing far more important things like clipping my toe nails or snoring.

you apparently have not read enough on here for a good prospective

it gets much worse

[Offshore]

Unemployment benefits are financed by payroll taxes levied on the employer, NOT employees.

Wow, thanks for the insight Tuckahoe - I've been having NJ state unemployment taxes deducted from my salary for 32 years! Are you available to come with me to pay a visit to the HR department of my employer (tens of thousands of employees all over the world) to explain that they've been doing it wrong and help me get my money back? I'll give you a cut.

This is yet another WB thread full of the rantings of low-information-uncles-that-you only-see-at-Thanksgiving. The good thing about facts is that they can be checked, despite what talk radio and cable news talking heads would have you believe.

[Offshore]

I don't have a source ...

Thanks for your honesty in admitting that your post is baseless.

[Acacia]

Might the off-shoring of manufacturing and customer service centers be why young people cannot find jobs? My nephew spent about 3 years looking for a good job after college. He finally got one and was soon sent to a third world country to set up an off-shore accounting service. . . . cheaper labor. This is great for that country, but not for this. Why does the gain of one country mean the loss for another? A zero sum game?

[SouthMark]

Wow, thanks for the insight Tuckahoe - I've been having NJ state unemployment taxes deducted from my salary for 32 years! Are you available to come with me to pay a visit to the HR department of my employer (tens of thousands of employees all over the world) to explain that they've been doing it wrong and help me get my money back? I'll give you a cut.

This is yet another WB thread full of the rantings of low-information-uncles-that-you only-see-at-Thanksgiving. The good thing about facts is that they can be checked, despite what talk radio and cable news talking heads would have you believe.

Speaking of facts that can be checked, I think that if you will do a little fact checking yourself you will find that you live in one of only three states where unemployment is paid by the employee. In the other 47 it IS PAID by the employer.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Tuckahoe]

Wow, thanks for the insight Tuckahoe - I've been having NJ state unemployment taxes deducted from my salary for 32 years! Are you available to come with me to pay a visit to the HR department of my employer (tens of thousands of employees all over the world) to explain that they've been doing it wrong and help me get my money back? I'll give you a cut.

This is yet another WB thread full of the rantings of low-information-uncles-that-you only-see-at-Thanksgiving. The good thing about facts is that they can be checked, despite what talk radio and cable news talking heads would have you believe.

Let's try this again Offshore... YOU live in New Jersey, one if three states -- along with Pennsylvania and Alaska -- where the employee pays an unemployment tax.

Three states. So yes you get to pay a state tax whereas the great majority of the rest of us do not pay state or federal unemployment tax.

[LoneStranger]

If it wasn't so sad I'd laugh at the number of folks trying to argue with my point, but lack the reading ability to tell the difference between mother and grandmother. I'll give your opinions the credence they deserve you can be sure. Keep blaming your problems on the poor. The rich have paid a lot of good money to get you to think that way and I'd hate to see it go to waste.

[TexasBob]

[QUOTE=ALLEGHENY;2045931]

No, sorry not misinformed at all. You just happen to live in one of three states -- Alaska, Pennsylvania and New Jersey -- that tax both the employer and employee. It's is a state withholding, the 47 other states and the Federal Government only tax the employer.


Wow, thanks for the insight Tuckahoe - I've been having NJ state unemployment taxes deducted from my salary for 32 years! Are you available to come with me to pay a visit to the HR department of my employer (tens of thousands of employees all over the world) to explain that they've been doing it wrong and help me get my money back? I'll give you a cut.

This is yet another WB thread full of the rantings of low-information-uncles-that-you only-see-at-Thanksgiving. The good thing about facts is that they can be checked............

I would be mad also if I was living in one of three states that screws their employees like New Jersey does.

[canoe]

To those who have taken offense at MuddyWaters comments, I would like to add my own.

I believe it does indicate a problem that those who receive government assistance without paying taxes approaches the 50% mark. This represents a 'Tipping Point' in the history of the country. The natural trend will be for people to vote for politicians who promise larger and large government programs whose cost will be placed on the backs on fewer and fewer workers. This country is changing.

To be concerned about this is not a criticism of you or your grandma, but I think it is a legitimate concern. I see the fabric of this country changing from one that promotes self reliance and hard work, to one where people increasingly look to the government to solve all their problems. I am not here to argue that one view is better than other, but please understand that at least this crusty old guy finds the change disturbing and worries about the future that his children are inheriting.

To the OP, I have no idea if the story is true or not or if this is a widespread phenomenon. I have no control over other peoples behavior, or our government system, and certainly a post here is not going to make a lick of difference. I can tell you I would never take a six month vacation if I was not able to pay for it myself. Someone able bodied enough to walk 2000 miles, should be able enough to provide for themselves.
I was begining to think I was the only one who thought like that. Must be a thing of the past. or maybe the way I was brought up or something.

[Puddlefish]

I guess this all begs the question, since these are forums dedicated to backpacking. How does any of this impact your hike. What trails were re-routed to liquor stores? I've heard that crackheads are using their EBT cards to swipe my phone data and are remotely using smart refrigerators to spy on my children? What strategy do you use if a poor person wants to actually talk to you? Should I pretend that I don't notice that they're wearing a knockoff Rolex, or should I just have the attendant remove them from the grounds? Does anyone have a recommendation for an ultra lightweight pulpit I can bring on the trail to express my view and save the souls of these people? If I do have an EBT card, where should I pick up my scarlet letter to pin to my chest?

Seriously, there are a million political forums you can discuss this on. There's nothing remotely related to backpacking in this thread.

[Miel]

Guys it's not that hard to understand. Having a steady income coming in allows you to not be in as much of a hurry to get a job. Most people I know unemployment almost runs out before they get a job. Most times it's because they are not looking that hard.

You could be looking for jobs while on the trail.

Not sure what an ebt card is, unemployment comes on a debit mastercard, is that the same thing?

Food stamps and cash welfare (not everyone receives both) now come in the form of a debit card. EBT card.

[daddytwosticks]

To those who have taken offense at MuddyWaters comments, I would like to add my own.

I believe it does indicate a problem that those who receive government assistance without paying taxes approaches the 50% mark. This represents a 'Tipping Point' in the history of the country. The natural trend will be for people to vote for politicians who promise larger and large government programs whose cost will be placed on the backs on fewer and fewer workers. This country is changing.

To be concerned about this is not a criticism of you or your grandma, but I think it is a legitimate concern. I see the fabric of this country changing from one that promotes self reliance and hard work, to one where people increasingly look to the government to solve all their problems. I am not here to argue that one view is better than other, but please understand that at least this crusty old guy finds the change disturbing and worries about the future that his children are inheriting.

To the OP, I have no idea if the story is true or not or if this is a widespread phenomenon. I have no control over other peoples behavior, or our government system, and certainly a post here is not going to make a lick of difference. I can tell you I would never take a six month vacation if I was not able to pay for it myself. Someone able bodied enough to walk 2000 miles, should be able enough to provide for themselves.

Excellent post. Agree 100%. :)

[Mags]

Seriously, there are a million political forums you can discuss this on. There's nothing remotely related to backpacking in this thread.

Well said. Move along folks. The discussion went a bit beyond the Ferryman and/or card use in Maine.

[ALLEGHENY]

Agree, but still fascinating to read this thread and the wide spread political beliefs. Plus, I think I just learned what an "EBT" card is (never heard of one before now).

I'm waiting to hear if the Ferryman got his EBT card since he was temporary out of work.

I don't have one. I have direct deposit.

[rickb]

This is without doubt the dumbest "hiking thread" on this site I have read yet. I can't believe I read every post wasting time better spent doing far more important things like clipping my toe nails or snoring.

Every experienced hiker knows that clipping one's toenails is very important.

I never thought toenail clipping needed its own thread, but reading the above suggests it might.

[colorado_rob]

This is without doubt the dumbest "hiking thread" on this site I have read yet. I can't believe I read every post wasting time better spent doing far more important things like clipping my toe nails or snoring.Yeah, hear dat, but I think it's called being February, we've got cabin fever, in this just-before-time-to-do-some-serious-hiking time! C'mon spring....

(for the record, I hike all winter, but it's the spring when my smile is the biggest out there....)

[George]

Does anyone have a recommendation for an ultra lightweight pulpit I can bring on the trail to express my view and save the souls of these people? .

there is an idea for a new cottage industry - carbon fiber soap boxes