Round 2 - Advice and Help on Foot Care

[ryneoh1040]

Hey guys!

So last year I attempted a thru-hike with one of my best friends. We both liked the outdoors and camping but up until then had never done any kind of extended hike. I made a few rookie mistakes that cost me dearly and ultimately forced me to get off the trail so I'm hoping to avoid those this year and give it all I've got. My pack weight was much too high last year (around 50 lbs with water and food) AND I made the disastrous mistake of buying shoes that were my actual shoe size. I had actually researched not to do this but I went to REI to buy my shoes and the gentlemen fitting me talked me out of it. I went to REI probably 10 times before my hike, getting all of my gear together, and I think it's the only time I got truly terrible advice. After losing two toe nails within the third week and my feet looking like I had golf balls in my ankles, I got off in Franklin, NC to find out I had Tendonitis in both of my feet. I tried to rough it out and hiked to NOC before my hiking partner decided to quit. I was at the point where I was almost in tears walking in so I quit as well. It was a good 5-6 months before my feet felt normal again and one of my toe nails still grows weird.

All that to say, with a lighter pack (this year it's closer to 30) and going up a shoe size in trail runners I'm hoping my feet will hold up. What I'm looking for are any tips, specific tips, for foot care while on the trail. Someone at an outfitters last year recommended keeping a tennis ball with me and rolling my feet every night. Can anyone speak to that? I'm fine with failing again but I don't want it to be because of my feet again. Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

Also, has anyone taken a GoPro on the trail and if so what was your experience? Last year my hiking partner filmed and I didn't worry about it but this year I'll be alone and think I'm going to invest in one.

[Auto Draft]

Were you using poles, and using them correctly (YouTube can help)? That will take some stress off your feet.

I wish I would would have used Vaseline to prevent blisters. Sometimes when you get a blister or a tight ankle, it changes the way you step and negatively affects your foot structure, so take care of those things as best as you can.

[bigcranky]

Tennis balls can help with plantar fasciitis and just general foot pain when rolled around the ball of the foot; I also use one on my calf muscles to prevent cramps at night. I take my trail runners off at breaks during the day and use my camp shoes (ancient Waldies rubber clogs or cheap flip flops in the summer), and clean my feet and legs at night and put on some foot powder inside my sleeping socks.

A light pack and shoes will help, of course, but I firmly believe in starting out fairly slow and letting the body adjust to the new strain of constantly climbing steep hills with an extra 30 pounds.

Good luck and happy trails. :)

[ryneoh1040]

Were you using poles, and using them correctly (YouTube can help)? That will take some stress off your feet.

I wish I would would have used Vaseline to prevent blisters. Sometimes when you get a blister or a tight ankle, it changes the way you step and negatively affects your foot structure, so take care of those things as best as you can.

I was and will be again! And they did help for sure. I'm glad you mentioned blisters because that's where it started. I came down the first 'mountain' on the trail which is about 20 miles in and I knew when we got down it was going to be bad news when I took off my shoes. My feet were 100% fine the day before and then 100% destroyed after just that days hike. From that point on I kept around 8-10 active blisters that I was cleaning and bandaging every night, plus the toe nails, swelling and eventual tendonitis. I had a blister kit that I had packed just in case and some peppermint oil that did help but I hadn't thought of Vaseline. That might be worth taking.

I also wore merino wool sock liners under my socks and I think those hurt more than helped. It was too much friction inside my shoe.

Thanks for that response.

[egilbe]

Keep your hamstrings and calves streched out. They get worked pretty hard while hiking and those muscles will shorten and tighten causing all sorts of problems with feet and back.

[MuddyWaters]

Take off socks at night , let feet breath, wipe dirt off
Keep socks in sleeping bag so they dry via body heat
Have shoes that fit well

Do multi day practice hikes ~ 75-100 miles with footwear before committing to a long hike is a good idea.

[ryneoh1040]

Tennis balls can help with plantar fasciitis and just general foot pain when rolled around the ball of the foot; I also use one on my calf muscles to prevent cramps at night. I take my trail runners off at breaks during the day and use my camp shoes (ancient Waldies rubber clogs or cheap flip flops in the summer), and clean my feet and legs at night and put on some foot powder inside my sleeping socks.

A light pack and shoes will help, of course, but I firmly believe in starting out fairly slow and letting the body adjust to the new strain of constantly climbing steep hills with an extra 30 pounds.

Good luck and happy trails. :)

Thanks! Some really helpful stuff in here. I agree, and in hindsight, I think other than my weightpack/shoe problem the thing that really was the nail in the coffin was the distances we tried to do. There was a three day period where we were at 10-12 mile days and I know that's not much some but for us it should have been 6-8 day those first few weeks.

[ryneoh1040]

Take off socks at night , let feet breath, wipe dirt off
Keep socks in sleeping bag so they dry via body heat
Have shoes that fit well

Do multi day practice hikes ~ 75-100 miles with footwear before committing to a long hike is a good idea.

Thanks for the sock advice, I didn't do that last year and will try it this time. My feet were usually cold at night (granted we started a few weeks earlier than I am this year) but it's worth it if it helps.

[ryneoh1040]

Keep your hamstrings and calves streched out. They get worked pretty hard while hiking and those muscles will shorten and tighten causing all sorts of problems with feet and back.

Solid advice. Do you have any rec. on when is best to stretch (like before a day hike, in the middle or more at night)?

[Puddlefish]

Solid advice. Do you have any rec. on when is best to stretch (like before a day hike, in the middle or more at night)?

All of the above. In addition to stretching, it helps to work your core, and build lateral leg strength up around your hips. Today is my first day back hiking after six weeks off, I got to walk a whole mile!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCDRf7bEFNA

[heatherfeather]

Thanks for the sock advice, I didn't do that last year and will try it this time. My feet were usually cold at night (granted we started a few weeks earlier than I am this year) but it's worth it if it helps.

I've found what works for me is to have separate sleep socks that you keep dry, only put on when you're getting in bed. And I actually favor thin, soft dress socks as opposed to fluffy hiking socks that fit tightly from the ankle up. They tend to restrict circulation. I also heard of people using socks designed for diabetic patients, who typically have poor circulation, but have not tried that since the thin, light synthetic socks do the trick for me.

On blisters, I found this 3-pack of mini body glide containers at rei. I apply it over hot spots when I feel them and it seems to do the trick. Personally, I have found that using the thinnest available injinji toe socks, then layering over another pair of the same cheap dress socks mentioned earlier really makes my feet happy. The dress socks provide quite a bit of slip, which feels a little strange, but really helps in blister prevention for me.


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[kimbur96]

Not sure how soon your next attempt is but there is a lot of good information in this book of you have time. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/ccd08e3fc6830967e231016d2736b8ce.jpg


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[nsherry61]

1) Train before you go . . . with weight! It is important to get your feet fit before you hit the trail. Cardio fitness takes weeks. Muscle fitness takes several weeks to months. Tendon fitness takes months to years. Walk long (5-10 miles at least once or twice a week), walk on trail type terrain (uneven and rocky helps develop your ankle and other stabilizers), and walk with at least 20 lbs on your back (a 20 lb bag of rice is cheap and carries reasonably well in a backpack without having to keep stuffing all your actual gear in there). Feet respond very differently walking with weight than without. All the hiking and running in the world, without the added weight of a backpack, will not get you feet backpacking fit.
2) Regarding toenails: Not only is it helpful to keep your toenails trimmed as short as possible (not so short you get ingrown nails), BUT, many people, myself included, find it also very helpful to file the end of your toenail down until it is quite thin so there is no abrupt leading edge on the end of your toenail to press against your shoe and cause the damage you have experienced in the past. To be precise, after trimming your toenails and smoothing the ends and edges with a file, take the file and file downward from the top of the toenail like your are putting an edge on a knife blade. As the leading edge of your toenail becomes thinner (like the edge of a very dull knife blade) it also becomes soft and smooth so as you slide your finger at the leading edge of your toenail, it doesn't catch at all, but just slides up your toe.
3) As for videos, I don't know what level of professional video quality you are looking for, or the amount of video you are planning on taking, but many phones take amazing videos and, and if your phone would work, it would save you money and weight.

In the end, just the right size shoes, the lighter pack along with your previous experience may well be enough to lead to success.

Good luck and have fun.

[Wesgoat]

On my first shakedown hike in prep for a thru hike I didn't take care of my feet and got big time blisters. Quickly learned to stop every 2 hours or so, take my shoes and socks off, let my feet breathe, clean dirt and grime from socks and shoes and used lotion sometimes. Worked for me. No more blisters. Of course correct shoes for your feet and good socks goes a long ways.

Good luck

[ryneoh1040]

Man thanks so much for all the words of advice and help. This is exactly what I was hoping for. I still have about 5 weeks before I head out so these are adjustments I can make.

[ryneoh1040]

I've found what works for me is to have separate sleep socks that you keep dry, only put on when you're getting in bed. And I actually favor thin, soft dress socks as opposed to fluffy hiking socks that fit tightly from the ankle up. They tend to restrict circulation. I also heard of people using socks designed for diabetic patients, who typically have poor circulation, but have not tried that since the thin, light synthetic socks do the trick for me.

On blisters, I found this 3-pack of mini body glide containers at rei. I apply it over hot spots when I feel them and it seems to do the trick. Personally, I have found that using the thinnest available injinji toe socks, then layering over another pair of the same cheap dress socks mentioned earlier really makes my feet happy. The dress socks provide quite a bit of slip, which feels a little strange, but really helps in blister prevention for me.


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This is something I was looking back on as I had to get off last year, because I chose the Darn Tough over the Injinji and always wondered if that was a mistake.

Do you think something like this is appropriate/potential candidate?

http://www.injinji.com/trail-2-0-midweight-crew.html

[ryneoh1040]

Not sure how soon your next attempt is but there is a lot of good information in this book of you have time. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160228/ccd08e3fc6830967e231016d2736b8ce.jpg


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I do have time to read and will definitely be checking this out.

[Dogwood]

I've always perceived appropriate footwear choices as one if not THE MOST IMPORTANT pieces of gear to backpacking/hiking. Have tried short cutting expert advise from those knowledgeable about shoes and backpacking LD in the past with it costing me. I don't skimp anymore. If the dawgs aren't happy it leads to greater issues with it taking me off the trail.

Go to expert high end running stores to have your feet and biomechanics analyzed. This is usually a free evaluation service done when on a treadmill or on short runs in the store. If your supposed "footwear specialist" can't relate your specific arch, instep volume, length/width, heel cup needed, arch support, pronation(neutral, pronate, supinate), etc, realize feet will grow on a LD hike after you communicated this is what you were doing/buying shoes for, rec several model shoes based on your foot characteristics, activity, situation, etc, ask you questions about your load on your back, existing medical issues, etc, push a sale, etc you're not getting across the board expert advice. Once this knowledge is obtained you're in a better place to walk into REI, Dicks, Sport Authority, outfitter, etc electing to try shoes on designed specifically for your situation rather than relying blindly on the supposed advice of "footwear specialists."

You can read all the Fixing Your Feet books you want but it isn't going to easily change hiking shoes that are simply too short for your growing feet or in some significant way not appropriate for your feet characteristics, situation, and activity. Been there having to slice off the toes of brand new high cost trail runners on a PCT thru-hike because I too bought shoes based on my current pre-hike shoe size not allowing for a 1/2 to size larger shoe further into the thru. Basically gave away another brand new pr of $150 Solomons because I did the same inane thing. Eh!

Tendonitis can be caused by improper fitting shoes and other issues well beyond just getting too short a shoe.

A hike requires adaptability and flexibility more so over a long term hike - like a thru-hike. This requires you to be aware of this need. Adapting on the fly is what LD hikers do to some degree. You became aware of two challenges 1) load too heavy, That's you making that judgement call not me. I'll explain. 2) improper fitting shoes YOU need to amend those situations BEFORE they knock you off the hike! As you've realized a successful thru-hike is more of being a hiker where you sometimes need to camp rather than it being a mainly camping trip where you are often doing much less hiking. I would generalize, most AT thru-hikers don't carry the same load the entire hike. When conditions or aspects or personal trail savvyness of the hike change most make changes to the wt carried.

Your load: Folks love absolutely love yakkety yakking about gear and it's wt. What one carries in terms of wt also involves consumable weight such as food, water, and fuel. I strongly suggest before going down the road reducing gear wt you consider tactics and strategies to reduce consumable wt. For example, reducing unnecessary water wt hauled by appropriately utilizing the massive amount of water beta available for the AT, dialing in, and hopefully down, your daily food wt/nutritional needs, supplementing food/resupplies at nearby/on trail sources, and resupplying more frequently ALL can reduce wt carried. NO knee jerk PRICEY UL/SUL GEAR PURCHASES NEEDED.

[heatherfeather]

This is something I was looking back on as I had to get off last year, because I chose the Darn Tough over the Injinji and always wondered if that was a mistake.

Do you think something like this is appropriate/potential candidate?

http://www.injinji.com/trail-2-0-midweight-crew.html

Now this is my personal experience speaking here, so take it with a grain of salt. I tried the midweight crew by itself and still got hot spots on a long day hike. My choice is the lightweight ones, with a thin, slippy sock over it.
http://www.injinji.com/run-lightweight-no-show-black-medium.html?gclid=CKG62uSRm8sCFQEJaQodI7UPUw

And I go to target and buy whatever synthetic dress socks appeal to me for layering over the injinjis.


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[kimbur96]

I like the injinji socks. I've worn them for several 50k (31 miles) trail races.


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[Odd Man Out]

I too am prone to toenail problems and must keep them well trimmed and filed as suggested above. For me, I always have a high quality nail clipper with file in my kit. This is not a place to skimp on and get by without or some lesser substitute/multi-use item.

As for bandaging blisters/hot spots, try getting some Leukotape. It is amazing how well it sticks. I have put a piece of tape on a hot spot and find it is still there after a week of hiking, showers, stream crossings, etc... One of the best tricks I picked up from a you tube video was to get some sticky labels. Peel off the paper label and throw it away. Take the backing (the part you are supposed to throw away) and stick a piece of Leukotape to the shiny non-stick side). Trim off the excess paper and/or tape and you have an easy to pack and easy to use piece of Leukotape, ready to use. You can pre-cut into convenient sizes or use your scissors on your Swiss Army Knife to cut to size as needed.

[Sandy of PA]

I have hiked over 2000 miles with the inijini toesocks. I found the performance 2s work the best, the Nuwools wore out very fast and shrank when washed. No blisters ever!

[kimbur96]

You can read all the Fixing Your Feet books you want but it isn't going to easily change hiking shoes that are simply too short for your growing feet or in some significant way not appropriate for your feet characteristics, situation, and activity. Been there having to slice off the toes of brand new high cost trail runners on a PCT thru-hike because I too bought shoes based on my current pre-hike shoe size not allowing for a 1/2 to size larger shoe further into the thru. Basically gave away another brand new pr of $150 Solomons because I did the same inane thing. Eh! .

I wasn't implying that a book would fix the wrong size shoes. But having some knowledge of what to do before exposure, during and how to deal with problems if they arise is a good thing.

[High Mileage]

Try to cut on weight if you can. I actually headed into the Smokies with 2 days of food and 1 liter of water and was under 20lbs. I always took off my socks and shoes for breaks and let them see the sun if possible.
Also elevating the feet help to, and I carried 3 pairs of socks to hep keep the feet in good shape.

[Vegan Packer]

Also, has anyone taken a GoPro on the trail and if so what was your experience? Last year my hiking partner filmed and I didn't worry about it but this year I'll be alone and think I'm going to invest in one.

After a bit of a learning curve, you can get really great results with a GoPro. I take one battery per day (about an hour of footage), and then I bring one extra per trip, which is good for those just in case shots and that sort of thing. I also bring along a GorillaPod mini tripod. Check out the video from my trip to Washington last summer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWtlSbaAY7o

[Vegan Packer]

I have hiked over 2000 miles with the inijini toesocks. I found the performance 2s work the best, the Nuwools wore out very fast and shrank when washed. No blisters ever!

Another vote for the Injinji toe socks. I have never had a single blister since making the switch. However, I suggest going with the ones made from 100 percent Coolmax. Personally, I prefer the liners.

[CamelMan]

So, I would say, start exercising now. Do leg exercises to strengthen ankles if you're using trail shoes with a heavy pack. Poles have research to back them up, but be careful about correct posture--I'm pretty sure (OK, 100% sure but I'm not a doctor or PT (unfortunately because PT sounds like a great job)) my ITBS was the result of an imbalance in hip and other leg muscle strength partly caused by lack of upright posture when walking with poles adjusted too short. It really sucks to have to correct muscle imbalances and worry about posture all the time. I've quit using them completely. Maybe learn a bit about running posture.

After I left my Columbia GoreTex boots at Neels Gap and picked up a pair of Montrail Sabinos (best shoe ever so obviously discontinued), the only time I've ever gotten killer blisters was with a liner sock on a gravel road walk on a very hot day. Now I just use sports socks, in my case those Andi socks from Walmart. (They're heavy though.) I like well vented trail shoes and just walk through streams most of the time unless it's really cold. Personally I think it helps, or is neutral, in terms of blisters and it does feel great to step into a stream every few miles. I always get the 2E width and my shoes are not tight, but they don't move around and rub, either.

Oh, finally, don't agree to any surgery for tendonitis until you've had PT, if it's not some damage that needs to be repaired or removed. There are also things like steroid injections to try. In my research for peroneal tendonitis, one article said it can pay to wait a year or more before considering surgery. If you know you just have an overuse injury, try to go to an orthopedist just to get physical therapy orders, instead of spending all of your AT money on x-rays, MRIs, copays, coinsurance and procedures. I was forced to refuse x-rays at least twice, to people who were not qualified to give me any medical reason for the need for x-rays to diagnose my condition. Or, just say you have to know the price up front and nobody will know what the hell to do with you and you could get away scott-free without a single procedure! They're use to just railroading everybody.

And never see a podiatrist unless its a sports practice, if there is such a thing, because those people make their living on fungus and diabetic foot care. If there are any rockstar podiatrists out there, I apologize for overgeneralizing, I've only been to 2.

[CamelMan]

After a bit of a learning curve, you can get really great results with a GoPro.

Out of curiosity, have you compared the image stabilization with other cameras? I'm trying to find one I can run with like GingerRunner (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheGingerRunner) does. Sorry if I'm derailing.

[RockDoc]

Carry a foot-care kit. Bistobans, body glide, wide athletic tape for heels, tincture of benzoin solution to make tape stick well. Double layer blister proof socks or toe socks are a good idea. All this is in Fixing your Feet; required reading.

[brendathompson71]

I haven't read the responses but YES larger shoes! good Socks and good Duct tape. if you start to feel a hot spot or even before put duct tape on. I have nerve issues and my feet and legs go numb so i do a few things (since I often will not feel blisters coming on) one I remove my shoes often to take a look at my feet... I let them get some air and rest just like the rest of me when I take a break) I also put duct take on the areas that tend to get blisters... since i started doing that i have NOT gotten 1 blister. before I started to do that I would get such huge blisters that people I was with cry for me (they would be VERY DEEP and large) I also use to lose toenails often, the larger shoes and good socks helped with that, good luck!

[dudeijuststarted]

Consider starting with a pair of well-fitting trail runners from the clearance rack. Treat any and all hotspots with duct tape as soon as you feel them (yes, stop, drop your pack and treat your feet.) This will prevent blistering. This technique should get you to Franklin, NC. There, you can be fitted properly at Outdoor 76, where they will change your hike and attitude toward footwear.

Of course, get that pack weight down to 35lbs MAX. It would help to get your feet ready pre-hike by barefoot walking / jogging where possible (I ran on the beaches of FL as I lived there.)

Another thing to try is tanning (dehydrating) your feet:

http://www.superfoodsrx.com/healthyliving/sweaty-feet-cure/# (http://www.superfoodsrx.com/healthyliving/sweaty-feet-cure/#)