What's your opinion on this base weight/upgrade?

[GreenBlaze]

I've got my base weight down to 20lb 14.5oz. When I add food/water/fuel it'll go up to 31lbs. If I upgrade my shelter and pack I can save ~5lbs, but at a cost of about $500. My pack is an Osprey Atmos 65 AG, which carries extremely well, but what's your opinion on a 5lbs difference? Do you think I would notice it?

[capehiker]

If this was my scenario, yes I would make the changes. 5 pounds is a significant enough change in pack weight. If it's the issue of paying $500 to do so, then look at the rest of your kit. If you have a 20 pound base weight, then I guarantee you there are other places to shed weight before dropping the big bucks. Perhaps you can look at the rest of your set-up and leaving your pack for last?

[4eyedbuzzard]

Well, lets say you can save maybe 1 to at most 2 lbs on the pack weight itself at a cost of maybe $150 or so? But that's a comfortable pack. You're still going to be carrying 25 + lbs. A nice suspension and comfortable carry are a good thing - worth an extra pound or so in weight carried.

I'd more investigate saving that other 3 lbs on the shelter for the other $350.

Just a thought.

And look at all the other stuff as well . . .

[MuddyWaters]

A good pack will make 40 feel lighter than a poor pack will at 30.

Choose the wrong pack just to save wt and yes, you can end up less comfortable.

[Gambit McCrae]

I would say carrying 31 lbs would constitute posting a full kit list, itemized and a picture of it all spread out organized would help for people to say "leave this out, cut this in half" kind of thing. Now I have spent some money, and yes my pack weight base is about 10-12 lbs. But it can be done with a lot less $$$.

[Odd Man Out]

Is the gear you are replacing good enough to have some resale value? If so the net cost may be less.

[garlic08]

You can also look at lower cost replacements, though you may lose less weight. My Tarptent cost just over $200 and I got my Gossamer Gear pack on sale for under $90. Those two items together weigh under 2.5 pounds and are very comfortable and durable. In my case, I waited until I needed replacements anyway, and those items were cheaper than heavier gear, so I actually saved money getting lighter. Then I got a few bucks selling used gear, too.

In my experience, the only place it's worthwhile to spend a lot of money to get light weight is a high quality down sleeping bag. But if you spend a lot of time outdoors that turns out to be an excellent "investment" anyway, regardless of weight concerns.

I have seen poor results from hikers who replace the pack first with a lighter model. They save two or three pounds, but end up cramming 40 pounds after a resupply into pack designed to comfortably carry 30. You don't want to be that person. Before you buy an ultralight pack, your base weight should probably be in the 15 pound range, allowing room for ten pounds of food and some water in the pack.

[bigcranky]

I'd look for a lighter tent, first, and save the pack replacement for later.

I guarantee that you'll notice a two or three pound difference in your full pack weight over the course of a day. I certainly do.

[colorado_rob]

I would say carrying 31 lbs would constitute posting a full kit list, itemized and a picture of it all spread out organized would help for people to say "leave this out, cut this in half" kind of thing. Now I have spent some money, and yes my pack weight base is about 10-12 lbs. But it can be done with a lot less $$$.All of this.

Curiously, and many would disagree, but dropping 5 pounds form a 20 pound base weight would be more noticeable than dropping 5 pounds from a 15 pound base weight. When your pack weight drops enough, your pack just simply becomes practically unnoticeable, assuming you have a well fitted pack. So yeah, find a way to drop 5 pounds or so.

I also agree there are free or cheap ways of doing this. Couple of examples: Nalgene bottles. Got those? Lose them. they are heavy. One can save a pound just by replacing 3 Nalgenes with 3 Gatorade bottles, with absolutely zero loss of function. Tent footprint? Why? Useless. If you disagree and just have to have one, get a piece of polycro and save some ounces (and $$$).

Knives? Why? A tiny 0.7 ounce swiss knife is all you'll ever need on the trail. Why do folks carry bigger knives? What would they ever do with them? (unless you need to clean fish or whittle). Heavy fleeces? A 10 ounce synthetic insulation jacket will save a good fraction of a pound (my old fleece is 24 ounces). But of course 10 ounce synthetic jackets will cost a few bucks, maybe 100 on sale.

And there are plenty of very nice, supportive, 2-3lb packs out there in the 50L range for about 150 bucks. Some current threads list a few fine ones. MW makes a good point; make sure any lightweight pack you choose is also comfy and supportive. Avoid a true UL pack (less than, say, 1.5 pounds) unless you get your base down below 10, then can you go with a UL pack.

[Gambit McCrae]

^^^
All good info

I wont go into a price and weight metric but for myself..
ULA Circuit
Tarptent Strato2
exped syn7 UL LW
Montbell 15* UL Down

That's the big 4 for my most popular kit but can shave all of that down to even light but a lot of comfort gots right out the window
Osprey Hornet
Sleep in a shelter
Synmat UL7
WM Highlite

That second kit brings down bas weight to about 4 lbs for big 4. I hiked Clingmans Dome to Davenport Gap with a 12 LBS kit. h2o, food, everything. Pretty much the picture below (-) the Tarptent Strato2 I was Carrying on the trip in that picture

33920

[Slo-go'en]

I've found 20 pounds is my tipping point. If my total load on my back is over 20 pounds I find it a lot more noticeable then if it's under 20 pounds. When it's under 20 pounds it generally means I'm almost out of food.

My base weight for spring/fall is in the 17-18 pound range, so it doesn't take much to get it over 20 pounds with some food and water. But so long as the pack doesn't get much over 25 pounds leaving town, it's not too bad.

With a 21 pound base weight (rounded up a little) you'll be pretty close to 30 leaving town and that's getting to be a pretty heavy load. Do what ever it takes to get well under 20 pounds and you'll be happy you did.

[mankind117]

Just get out and hike and stop worry about your base weight, 20 lbs is not crazy and 3 or 4 pound pack that is comfortable is better than a 1 pound pack that can't carry the load properly, you will figure out what you don't need with experience.

[Puddlefish]

Depends on your finances, $100 per pound is at least easily measurable. I've seen instances of people spending $100 to save an ounce, I think they're nuts (well, at least a lot richer than I am.)

[Gambit McCrae]

Just get out and hike and stop worry about your base weight, 20 lbs is not crazy and 3 or 4 pound pack that is comfortable is better than a 1 pound pack that can't carry the load properly, you will figure out what you don't need with experience.

If this was the only response the OP would feel that his attempt to better his hiking situation would be a mute point. He asked for feedback on improving his weight, not for anyone's opinion on if his attempt is relevant or not.

[Dogwood]

If this was my scenario, yes I would make the changes. 5 pounds is a significant enough change in pack weight. If it's the issue of paying $500 to do so, then look at the rest of your kit. If you have a 20 pound base weight, then I guarantee you there are other places to shed weight before dropping the big bucks. Perhaps you can look at the rest of your set-up and leaving your pack for last?


I would say carrying 31 lbs would constitute posting a full kit list, itemized and a picture of it all spread out organized would help for people to say "leave this out, cut this in half" kind of thing. Now I have spent some money, and yes my pack weight base is about 10-12 lbs. But it can be done with a lot less $$$.


You can also look at lower cost replacements, though you may lose less weight. My Tarptent cost just over $200 and I got my Gossamer Gear pack on sale for under $90. Those two items together weigh under 2.5 pounds and are very comfortable and durable. In my case, I waited until I needed replacements anyway, and those items were cheaper than heavier gear, so I actually saved money getting lighter. Then I got a few bucks selling used gear, too.

...place it's worthwhile to spend a lot of money to get light weight is a high quality down sleeping bag. But if you spend a lot of time outdoors that turns out to be an excellent "investment" anyway, regardless of weight concerns.

I have seen poor results from hikers who replace the pack first with a lighter model. They save two or three pounds, but end up cramming 40 pounds after a resupply into pack designed to comfortably carry 30. You don't want to be that person. Before you buy an ultralight pack, your base weight should probably be in the 15 pound range...

I like these points. I will strongly point out Capehiker's bold comment again. By the act of appropriately leaving "stuff" out of a nearly 21 lb kit you lose wt too! And, it cost no money with new gear purchases. Astonishingly simple, eh? It does require some thought beyond shopping though. Don't get hung up on solely reducing kit wt by buying. Don't fall back into being trapped by the entrenched cultural norms that money, shopping, or more is the best or only approach to satisfaction. These norms can be observed being played out in the hiking world too especially by gear junkies and UL fanatics. Light wt, UL, etc are much corrupted marketing labels. Saving wt hauled is more than saving gear wt too! Consider this. 1/3 of your wt hauled is consumable wt. Have you considered tactics, techniques, and strategies that can reduce consumable wt! Most folks don't think about that especially when entrenched in those cited cultural tendencies relegating themselves to not thinking more broadly beyond buying something. In short, hit the wt saving goals wisely in a timely manner from various aspects not just by narrowly reducing gear wt or spending currently questionable sums of do re mi on new gear when perhaps wt saving solutions exist already that do not require a $500 investment.

Everyone has their comfort level when it comes to spending money to save weight. Everyone is not on the same weight saving trajectory either. For you, making some assumptions about where you have evolved so far as a hiker and with this 31 lb load, it's my guess saving 5 lbs and saving, I would guess mass/volume, will be noticeable for you. Saving 5 lbs at a $500 cost comes out for you at spending $100 for each pound saved. That's quite a nice gear wt savings for $500 especially if you do it as Garlic said he did. He did it as his skills and knowledge and conditioning were commensurate with the appropriately replaced newer lower wt gear as old gear wore out. If you continue lowering the wt of your haul you'll likely find the gear wt savings payback will be increasingly less for the same amount of money.

[DuneElliot]

I would say carrying 31 lbs would constitute posting a full kit list, itemized and a picture of it all spread out organized would help for people to say "leave this out, cut this in half" kind of thing. Now I have spent some money, and yes my pack weight base is about 10-12 lbs. But it can be done with a lot less $$$.

I second this. Post a full list.

[Venchka]

I recently made yet 2 more visits to my local Osprey dealers. The first stop involved an Aether 60 pack loaded with about 20 pounds. I spent about an hour roaming around the REI store. I basically forgot that the pack was there. However, I know for a fact that I'll never go anywhere where I need an Aether 60 with a 20 pound load. I feel that the test was somewhat inconclusive. The next time I test drive the Aether 60 I will load it up much heavier.
I then went to the other Osprey dealer nearby. This time I selected the Atmos 65 AG and asked the young lady to "load it up." I got the pack on and adjusted it and again wandered around the store for about an hour. I could tell that the pack was heavier than the pack I tried at REI. It didn't feel overly heavy. Everything fit nicely. When it was time to go, I took the pack off. YIKES! She had indeed loaded it up. Approximately 47 pounds. I had no idea when the Atmos was on my back that it was that heavy. For once, the marketing hype, Anti Gravity, seemed to actually work. I was encouraged. Maybe I had found a suitable replacement for my 6 pound 12 ounce Load Monster Terraplane. In fact, I may go back with my real gear and see if the Atmos 50 AG will hold my stuff.

What's your point Wayne? While the Atmos packs are heavier than some of the Super Wonder UL packs around, finding a pack that fits me and handles any reasonable load (winter gear, snowshoes, etc.) is probably worth the extra pound or two. If I owned an Atmos 65 AG and it worked for me, I would replace it last. Look at anything you can leave at home. The easiest & least expensive weight loss plan. Then I would look at my sleeping bag and tent as places to save weight. I already replaced my sleeping bag saving about 1 1/2 pounds. Next in line would be a new tent. I reckon I can save another 1 to 2 pounds over my present 4 pound tent. Last up might be a new pack. My current 2 pack inventory weighs 2.5 and 6 .75 pounds respectively. As long as I can use the 2.5 pound pack I'm good to go. If I can find a sub-4 pound pack that equals the comfort of the Terraplane, I might buy it.
Next Test Drive: ULA Catalyst in June.
ps: The so called hip belt pockets on the Atmos AG packs are useless. Added weight, complexity and cost that serve no functional purpose whatsoever.
Good luck in reducing your weight.

Wayne

[colorado_rob]

Someone opened a thread about this pack a couple days ago, can't find it right off, but here's the pack:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZHV3E1E/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=cad58c88427e6a22928d9cd7c44aa01e_S

Sure looks good for $70, a less than 3 lb 50L pack, looks like it has stuff people like. If you don't like it, Amazon has a great return policy, they even give you your money back instantly (you just have to mail the item back within a certain period).

Just food for thought. Save over 2 pounds for $70, probably a decent pack, good reviews on Amazon, at least. If I didn't have about a dozen packs already, I'd consider this one myself.

Just an example of bargain packs out there. Some will say, and I tend to agree, spend the extra $$$ for excellent gear (like the ULA Circuit everyone loves), but if you're a bargain hunter, this is an example.

[DuneElliot]

Someone opened a thread about this pack a couple days ago, can't find it right off, but here's the pack:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZHV3E1E/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P1250_1000?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=cad58c88427e6a22928d9cd7c44aa01e_S

Sure looks good for $70, a less than 3 lb 50L pack, looks like it has stuff people like. If you don't like it, Amazon has a great return policy, they even give you your money back instantly (you just have to mail the item back within a certain period).

Just food for thought. Save over 2 pounds for $70, probably a decent pack, good reviews on Amazon, at least. If I didn't have about a dozen packs already, I'd consider this one myself.

Just an example of bargain packs out there. Some will say, and I tend to agree, spend the extra $$$ for excellent gear (like the ULA Circuit everyone loves), but if you're a bargain hunter, this is an example.

Thanks for the link. I've been hunting for something like this for a friend who is on a tight budget. Looked at the SMD Fusion that's currently on sale, but this pack might be better for him (cost and size). They have a slightly larger 65L one which has looks to have a great adjustable torso on it which would be even better, but slightly heavier

[brendathompson71]

That is such a personal thing, I would say it has to do with how much money you have, how many miles you want to do a day and your health. for me 5 lbs can make a word of difference... think about when your walking with your water about empty and right after you fill your water... I sure can feel the difference after I fill my water.

[GreenBlaze]

I second this. Post a full list.

Alright folks.. I certainly appreciate all of these detailed comments. I'm trying to mitigate injury and increase enjoyment first and foremost.

Here's my current list of gear @ 21.5lbs. Thank you for taking the time to look and provide feedback.

https://lighterpack.com/r/1rvwsi

[DuneElliot]

A small thing...why do you have a can opener? I don't know of anyone who carries cans while backpacking.

Get rid of the extra back-up light. One headlamp plus phone will be plenty.

Drop the hairbrush and mirror. Pick up a comb if necessary.

No need for the emergency blanket...you have a tent and sleeping bag

Don't carry hand sanitizer AND camp soap. Pick one.

Of course, this only drops about a pound from your pack

Of course, the two most obvious places to drop weight are the pack and the tent, and you really could drop around 4lbs if you looked at lighter-weight alternatives.

[DuneElliot]

Edit to add: You have been given some links to some great light-weight but budget conscious gear and you could get into a new pack and tent for under $200 (the Amazon pack Colorado_Rob suggested @ $60, plus the Six Moons Skyscape for $120)

[Slo-go'en]

You have both the sleeping bags listed in the total pack weight. Get rid of the 24 oz bag and your under 20 pounds.

Not much else you could eliminate which would make much of a difference. A Space blanket is usually considered useless and you can probably loose the rain pants. You could save about 1.5 pounds with a UL tent, but your stuck with everything else.

[DuneElliot]

You have both the sleeping bags listed in the total pack weight. Get rid of the 24 oz bag and your under 20 pounds.

Not much else you could eliminate which would make much of a difference. A Space blanket is usually considered useless and you can probably loose the rain pants. You could save about 1.5 pounds with a UL tent, but your stuck with everything else.

I noticed that too, but when you look at the math, the 40oz bag plus the 14.5oz pad add up to 54.5 oz which is what the weight listed says. It does leave out the summer bag because it's listed as 0 quantity.

[colorado_rob]

A small thing...why do you have a can opener? I don't know of anyone who carries cans while backpacking.

Get rid of the extra back-up light. One headlamp plus phone will be plenty.

Drop the hairbrush and mirror. Pick up a comb if necessary.

No need for the emergency blanket...you have a tent and sleeping bag

Don't carry hand sanitizer AND camp soap. Pick one.

Of course, this only drops about a pound from your pack

Of course, the two most obvious places to drop weight are the pack and the tent, and you really could drop around 4lbs if you looked at lighter-weight alternatives.All of the above, but I wanted to add:

first, you have a nice complete kit.

But, starting out, you have a lot of weight in stuff sacks. do you need a dry bag for your sleeping bag? Nope. You've got a trash compactor bag already, use a regular UL stuff sack at about an ounce. Same with your food bag. That food dry bag probably ain't really odor proof, use a regular stuff sack, much lighter. Camelbacks are heavy, are you sure you want the water bladder/hose thing? 3 Gatorade bottles will save you 5 ounces. A zip lock is all you need for your phone.

You've got a lot of jacket weight there. No problem with the dead Bird (AKA Arctyrex) shell, I love those Beta LT's, but that down jacket is a bit much IMHO. There are plenty warm down sweaters out there at 7 ounces. It all adds up.

As mentioned earlier, consider a Gossamer Gear polycro groundsheet in lieu of that footprint, saves you 5 ounces.

All of my comments are maybe only a few pounds, as already been said, the big 3 are your major weight bogeys. Sleeping bags aren't bad, but that pack and tent, ouch.

[rocketsocks]

A small thing...why do you have a can opener? I don't know of anyone who carries cans while backpacking.

Get rid of the extra back-up light. One headlamp plus phone will be plenty.

Drop the hairbrush and mirror. Pick up a comb if necessary.

No need for the emergency blanket...you have a tent and sleeping bag

Don't carry hand sanitizer AND camp soap. Pick one.

Of course, this only drops about a pound from your pack

Of course, the two most obvious places to drop weight are the pack and the tent, and you really could drop around 4lbs if you looked at lighter-weight alternatives....what if you come across a can of peaches, bonus!

[DuneElliot]

...what if you come across a can of peaches, bonus!

You're right...forgot about random canned peach stashes!

[GreenBlaze]

Thanks again. And yes.. that .1oz P38 can opener has the potential to be very worth the .01oz! It's a lot cheaper to grab a can of beans/chili in town and use that can opener than to hit McDonalds! I didn't even think of stashed peaches! #win

Let me address a few of the items mentioned.

The footprint allows me to pitch the tent fly only and have ground cover. I can see that being extremely handy to have, so I think it's worth it.

I will remove:
Emergency Blanket

[egilbe]

Thanks again. And yes.. that .1oz P38 can opener has the potential to be very worth the .01oz! It's a lot cheaper to grab a can of beans/chili in town and use that can opener than to hit McDonalds! I didn't even think of stashed peaches! #win

Let me address a few of the items mentioned.

The footprint allows me to pitch the tent fly only and have ground cover. I can see that being extremely handy to have, so I think it's worth it.

I will remove:
Emergency Blanket

footprint can be replaced with a lighter alternative like a piece of tyveck. If you want to tarp, why not just get a tarp?

[GreenBlaze]

footprint can be replaced with a lighter alternative like a piece of tyveck. If you want to tarp, why not just get a tarp?


post continued...

Footprint (6.7oz):
The footprint custom fits to the tent poles and allows me to pitch the tent fly only and have ground cover. Ease of use wins here over a few ounce savings. I just need a new tent!

Sleeping Bag Sack (6.8oz):
I was using the bottom loader in the Atmos for the sleeping bag (easy access without pulling everything out) separate from the liner. I could use another trash compactor bag instead of the dry sack (-4.5oz). Just wanted max protection for the bag.

Dry Sack (3oz):
Using the tip above, I'll dump the 10L dry sack and use the 13L dry sack for food.

Otterbox (3.6oz):
I've gotta keep it. $1k phone in a ziploc bag is bad mojo for several reasons. :D

Brush/Mirror (1.5oz):
I could save 1 ounce with a comb, but having both mirror/brush together for 1.5oz wins on ease of use.

Niteize Bug Lite (.7oz):
This is a better light overall than my phone and much easier to use in a pinch.

Camp Soap/Sanitizer (3.2oz):
I will take less of each since they serve different purposes. This will save a few oz.

[egilbe]

The only time you will be using your sleeping bag is when everything is already out of your pack.

I cant imagine a time when I wanted my sleeping bag first!

[Slo-go'en]

The only time you will be using your sleeping bag is when everything is already out of your pack.I cant imagine a time when I wanted my sleeping bag first!

I'm with the OP on having my bag in a dry sack. Accidents happen and water can get into a pack. I've seen enough bladders leak to not risk that. (which actually isn't a problem for me, since I don't use bladders). With the sleeping bag in it's own protective wrapper, I don't have to worry about putting other wet stuff in the pack on top of it like a wet tent or jacket.

[DuneElliot]

Footprint (6.7oz):

Niteize Bug Lite (.7oz):
This is a better light overall than my phone and much easier to use in a pinch.



Yes, but you already have one headlamp...no point in carrying two PLUS your phone. That's redundancy and you're wanting to drop weight, which means reducing redundancy like that.

Have you thought about freezer bag cooking instead of cooking in the pot. Then you could get rid of the camp suds and pot scrubber; no need to have extra water to clean and saves time. It's what I do and works really well.

[Dogwood]

... think about when your walking with your water about empty and right after you fill your water... I sure can feel the difference after I fill my water.

This.

I know it can be difficult since many get endlessly nauseously in a frenzy opining about gear but FORGET gear at the moment. Let's examine those 11 lbs in consumable wt! How did you come up with that 11 lbs(10.75 lbs)? Explain details of 1/3 of the wt you are hauling. That is important. Is it not? Yet you ignored detailing 1/3 of your anticipated hauled wt??? Is it not important if wt saving is a strong backpacking priority we don't unnecessarily carry 1 L of water equating to unnecessarily hauling 2.2 lbs or extra food when so many well documented food resupply and food supplementing options are available on many U.S. hikes such as the AT or unnecessarily hauling 8 0z( 1/2 lb) of fuel? For example, COULD the wt saving tactic be applied to simply resupply more often at least initially which saves on the food wt hauled? Hmm?

You know this but perhaps you need reminding. You will not be carrying that assumed 31 lb wt the entire hike since you'll be changing or omitting gear out of your kit as you and your hike evolve AND you'll be consuming food wt lowering your total wt hauled deeper you go into sections between doing a full resupply. So, kit wt will not be a static entity. Avoid being pulled into someone else's hike or how someone else hikes or bowing to an implication something is "wrong" with what you're starting out with. FWIW, a TOTAL 30 lb haul isn't all that heavy anyway. Oh, the UL horror, the blasphemy. Remember, overwhelmingly most work their way into their LD hikes.

But, my point concerns more than examining consumable wt! You said, your reasons for reducing wt hauled are "I'm trying to mitigate injury and increase enjoyment first and foremost." Can you consider and appreciate other backpacking/hiking techniques, tactics, skills, experiences, agendas, etc that also mitigate injury and increase enjoyment beyond reducing gear wt? For prime example, many successful AT hikers start an AT NOBO with 30+ lbs yet without injury enjoyably experience their hikes. How do they do? Obviously, their success in these areas, which is somewhat common, was not solely based on gear wt. They mitigated injury also by not going out too fast too far looking too far ahead especially in the beginning. They worked their way into their hikes. They realized their joy was not solely based on gear or gear weights! Broadening your perspectives in these areas you stated are your goals will more fully serve you attaining you goals.

[Malto]

a great example of Dogwoods point. I left the Southern terminus of the PCT with 24 lbs. 8 lbs of gear, 8 lbs of food and 8 lbs of water. i was new to the water reports so I carried 2x the water I needed, that was 4 lbs. I walked right by two resupply points in my first two days and even stopped into a store for a Mountain Dew, another 4 lbs that I could have shed. Plus, I did the first section, 110 miles in just over three days instead of the planned four, that was another 2 lbs of extra weight.

bottom line, while I had my gear completely dialed in, I had almost ten pounds of weight that I didn't need, at least on the initial day. That is more than my base weight. Fast forward, a few years and many thousands of miles, I would also have my food and water dialed in as well.

[MuddyWaters]

a great example of Dogwoods point. I left the Southern terminus of the PCT with 24 lbs. 8 lbs of gear, 8 lbs of food and 8 lbs of water. i was new to the water reports so I carried 2x the water I needed, that was 4 lbs. I walked right by two resupply points in my first two days and even stopped into a store for a Mountain Dew, another 4 lbs that I could have shed. Plus, I did the first section, 110 miles in just over three days instead of the planned four, that was another 2 lbs of extra weight.

bottom line, while I had my gear completely dialed in, I had almost ten pounds of weight that I didn't need, at least on the initial day. That is more than my base weight. Fast forward, a few years and many thousands of miles, I would also have my food and water dialed in as well.


Easy to dial in food and water when your familiar with upcoming terrain and conditions. A bit harder when you dont know what to expect and what pace to expect.

But with a light pack, a few extra lbs dont matter quite as much.

Better to underestimate pace and carry too much water, than to overestimate.

[Dogwood]

"Easy to dial in food and water when your familiar with upcoming terrain and conditions. A bit harder when you dont know what to expect and what pace to expect."

If this scenario is for an AT hike especially a long AT hike as one has settled into their new lifestyle, I disagree. The AT is probably the most documented LD trail in the world! The AT is WELL KNOWN in terms of terrain and conditions. MUCH of the logistical guess work is removed from an AT hike. OMG, AT terrain and conditions are minutely dissected, broken down, rehashed, and communicated ad nauseam. While familiarity of terrain and conditions factors into dialing in food and water wt the AT likewise also has oodles of well documented resupply and food/fuel supplementing points all in a small AT Thru-hikers Companion. Plus the AT is definitely NOT that remote of a hike. Many bail out options to food. Heck, the AT shelters have water at or very nearby and they are about 7 miles avg apart. Water, with documented reliability, is far more encountered than every 7 miles! In that context food and water availability also can definitely be well known and more forgiving within the context of a typical 3 season AT hike so less NEED for overestimating on either. Rather, if the oodles of condensed AT food and H2O beta are utilized the AT is ideal for dialing down hauling unnecessary water and food wt. For example, one could easily lower food and water wt hauls in the 100+ miles of the AT through Shenandoah NP by supplementing meals(lunch, dinner, snacks, shakes, etc) and obtaining water at waysides and restaurant. One could even head into town and be back to the AT fin a few hrs to break the food haul up in the S NP 100+ miles. Same can be said for section after section of AT.

"But with a light pack, a few extra lbs dont matter quite as much."

Well that ignores the impetus for the OP's goal on his thread doesn't it? It is after all his hike not yours or mine or anyone else.

Again, the OP gave the reasons for lowering wt hauled were mitigating injury and increasing their joy on the hike. Well, if those are the true motivations is lowering gear wt the only thing that factors into achieving that goal? Is lowering gear wt the path to trail Nirvana and injury free hiking that it is assumed it will be? I say, definitely NO! It's more involved than just that. Remember, I'm not bashing UL as I'm a hardcore ULer sometimes SULer.

People going out too fast too hard also contribute to injury regardless of wt carried on their backs. How many ATers I see contently creeping along with 40, 50 lb packs at the start make it to Mt K. They went out as Newbs evolving along the way observing and adapting. Perhaps, being less anxious, not looking too far ahead, settling in to being a hiker, and attempting to be more aware that hiking is not just about hiking can add to a sense of joy or deeper connection to the moment? People one is with also plays a role in trail contentment and joy? Joy is not just about material goods like gear. LOL. On some hikes with a heavy pack coming out of town with a full resupply, bear can, ice axe, crampons, etc meeting up with light hearted hiking friends made me forget about the wt on my back even if just for a little while. Thank goodness for all those great friends I've met that kept me, and I them, skipping down the trail. If intending to mitigate wt hauling injuries isn't it important to recognize and possibly adjust agenda(pace, footing, etc), pack adjustments, etc as kit wt changes daily on a long hike? If reducing injury is the motivation is not getting gear that fits and that one is comfortable with also important? Yet rarely do I read about these things as we rush to talk about gear wt. I can also be a hardcore gear junkie so don't get what I'm saying twisted.

I'm saying all this because we often go over a cliff opining on gear wt when wt prioritized outside of the larger context is problematic. Jus my ramblins of a former UL Nirvana seeker. :)

[GreenBlaze]

But, my point concerns more than examining consumable wt! You said, your reasons for reducing wt hauled are "I'm trying to mitigate injury and increase enjoyment first and foremost." Can you consider and appreciate other backpacking/hiking techniques, tactics, skills, experiences, agendas, etc that also mitigate injury and increase enjoyment beyond reducing gear wt? For prime example, many successful AT hikers start an AT NOBO with 30+ lbs yet without injury enjoyably experience their hikes. How do they do? Obviously, their success in these areas, which is somewhat common, was not solely based on gear wt. They mitigated injury also by not going out too fast too far looking too far ahead especially in the beginning. They worked their way into their hikes. They realized their joy was not solely based on gear or gear weights! Broadening your perspectives in these areas you stated are your goals will more fully serve you attaining you goals.

Thanks Dogwood. Factoring in consumables at MAX weight is a worst-case scenario calculation. I like to start there in the gear phase, survey the scene, and adjust as needed. With that in mind, you are absolutely right. I have not studied in detail all of the potential resupply points. That task is up next, and I'll probably find that I don't need to start off at MAX. I'm sure there's plenty of adventure to be had in the effort of resupplying that I would rather not miss out on.

p.s. - How's the recently paved Saddle Road?

[MuddyWaters]

"Easy to dial in food and water when your familiar with upcoming terrain and conditions. A bit harder when you dont know what to expect and what pace to expect."

If this scenario is for an AT hike especially a long AT hike as one has settled into their new lifestyle, I disagree. The AT is probably the most documented LD trail in the world! The AT is WELL KNOWN in terms of terrain and conditions. MUCH of the logistical guess work is removed from an AT hike. OMG, AT terrain and conditions are minutely dissected, broken down, rehashed, and communicated ad nauseam. While familiarity of terrain and conditions factors into dialing in food and water wt the AT likewise also has oodles of well documented resupply and food/fuel supplementing points all in a small AT Thru-hikers Companion. Plus the AT is definitely NOT that remote of a hike. Many bail out options to food. Heck, the AT shelters have water at or very nearby and they are about 7 miles avg apart. Water, with documented reliability, is far more encountered than every 7 miles! In that context food and water availability also can definitely be well known and more forgiving within the context of a typical 3 season AT hike so less NEED for overestimating on either. Rather, if the oodles of condensed AT food and H2O beta are utilized the AT is ideal for dialing down hauling unnecessary water and food wt. For example, one could easily lower food and water wt hauls in the 100+ miles of the AT through Shenandoah NP by supplementing meals(lunch, dinner, snacks, shakes, etc) and obtaining water at waysides and restaurant. One could even head into town and be back to the AT fin a few hrs to break the food haul up in the S NP 100+ miles. Same can be said for section after section of AT.

"But with a light pack, a few extra lbs dont matter quite as much."

Well that ignores the impetus for the OP's goal on his thread doesn't it? It is after all his hike not yours or mine or anyone else.

Again, the OP gave the reasons for lowering wt hauled were mitigating injury and increasing their joy on the hike. Well, if those are the true motivations is lowering gear wt the only thing that factors into achieving that goal? Is lowering gear wt the path to trail Nirvana and injury free hiking that it is assumed it will be? I say, definitely NO! It's more involved than just that. Remember, I'm not bashing UL as I'm a hardcore ULer sometimes SULer.

People going out too fast too hard also contribute to injury regardless of wt carried on their backs. How many ATers I see contently creeping along with 40, 50 lb packs at the start make it to Mt K. They went out as Newbs evolving along the way observing and adapting. Perhaps, being less anxious, not looking too far ahead, settling in to being a hiker, and attempting to be more aware that hiking is not just about hiking can add to a sense of joy or deeper connection to the moment? People one is with also plays a role in trail contentment and joy? Joy is not just about material goods like gear. LOL. On some hikes with a heavy pack coming out of town with a full resupply, bear can, ice axe, crampons, etc meeting up with light hearted hiking friends made me forget about the wt on my back even if just for a little while. Thank goodness for all those great friends I've met that kept me, and I them, skipping down the trail. If intending to mitigate wt hauling injuries isn't it important to recognize and possibly adjust agenda(pace, footing, etc), pack adjustments, etc as kit wt changes daily on a long hike? If reducing injury is the motivation is not getting gear that fits and that one is comfortable with also important? Yet rarely do I read about these things as we rush to talk about gear wt. I can also be a hardcore gear junkie so don't get what I'm saying twisted.

I'm saying all this because we often go over a cliff opining on gear wt when wt prioritized outside of the larger context is problematic. Jus my ramblins of a former UL Nirvana seeker. :)


I often carry 2 L for miles, without drinking it, doesnt bother me. As long as under 20 Ib total, Im pretty content. I dont stress about it, its light enough, Im not in a race.

In fact, Im somewhat of a sadist who believes that working a bit harder might be good for me (up to a point)

At the same time I once started out wirh 4.5 L for a long dry stretch with little shade. As soon as I found creek I was parelleling that had a trickle, I dumped most of it, knowing water was available nearby after all. Didnt feel like sadism that day.

As you say, the AT is very well documented. But the thing is, most people dont go thru trouble to really research when they first start. They carry heavy packs, are out of shape, Move slow, and fill and carry 3l bladder.....because they dont know their expected pace, or their water needs. They have also been scared into carrying mucho water by the (over)hydration nazis. Ive run into a few people on southern AT, usually hefty, that inquire semi panicked where the next water is, and had to tell them several miles.

[Dogwood]

...(over)hydration nazis?

I like that. ;)

[fastfoxengineering]

Your off to a good start. You have a solid list of quality gear that will serve you well on a thru hike. Imo, you just lack experience. It seems you are covering all bases and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I suggest you do some shakedown hikes. You'll have a better understanding of what you use and don't use. I really go both ways on giving advice. Some days I tell people to hit the trail with an open mindset of letting go of some needed gear that you brought because it made you feel more comfortable to head out on the trail, and other days I tell people to leave all nonessential stuff home and if you really want it, get it in the next town..Nonessentials - You either carry it for 30miles then leave it in a hiker box, or dont bring it at all and you never do find a want for it. So you either carry unnecessary weight or go without for a week. You'll survive either way.

Your prepared though.

My recommendation for lightening your pack. Ditch the bladder. Carry two 1L smart water bottles and the 2L playbag. A fantastic system for an AT hike. Shaves like 6oz for $2.50. Doesn't get better than that. I prefer bottles over a bladder. Most thru hikers do. Not just because they're lighter but they truly are advantageous over a bladder for a thru hiker. Experienced LD hikers who carry a bladder are the minority and have experimented but have found they work for them.

By ditching the small stuff and making minor swaps (bottles over bladders for example) you can likely shave 1-3lbs from your list.

In order to go further you would need to look into replacing your shelter and pack. However you have a great pack and shelter. So just use it, learn, and move forth. Dont go spend a bunch of money now on new gear. Go learn and see how others are doing things. Henry Shires at tarptent would get you a tent by the time you hit the next town if your nice to him.

After spending alot of money trying new gear and tweaking my kit, some of my greatest weight savings has been accomplished by eliminating redundancies, finding multi-use gear, and modifying/diy gear.

But seriously.. Ditch the bladder. They're a pain in the butt lol

Happy trails

[Cheyou]

"After spending alot of money trying new gear and tweaking my kit, some of my greatest weight savings has been accomplished by eliminating redundancies, finding multi-use gear, and modifying/diy gear."



how about about a list of multi- gear. I think it might b a myth.

[egilbe]

"After spending alot of money trying new gear and tweaking my kit, some of my greatest weight savings has been accomplished by eliminating redundancies, finding multi-use gear, and modifying/diy gear."



how about about a list of multi- gear. I think it might b a myth.

Use a trekking pole to dig a cat hole, rather than bringing a trowel to do the same function.
Using a poncho as your shelter and raingear (although i think that is bordering on stupid light)
use a cookpot as your foodbowl, coffee cup and wash basin
use the foam stiffening panel in your backpack as your sleep pad.
use a bandana as your wash cloth, pre-filter water, sun rag, sweatband....

just a start

[Cheyou]

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/multi-purpose-as-good-as-single-purpose/

[Longboysfan]

Pounds = Pain.

More pounds more pain.