View Full Version : Coporate Companies and the real hiker
I just wanted to open up a posting to vent my angst against coporate companies that swear to support the outdoor enthusiast and then turn around to throw dirt in their faces. There are two different recent situations that have left me with a terrible taste in my mouth.
The first is being turned down for a simple sales position at the local EMS. I was sent a form letter, being rejected for the following reasons. #1 Lack of scheduale availability #2 Lack of outdoor experience #3 Lack of retail experience. I never was even given the opportunity to speak with any of the managment team in reference to a possible schedule. For anyone who knows me, a lack of outdoor experience????? C'mon. And finally a lack of retail experience, I have been an asistant manager as well as the store manager for a couple of outlets in manchester center. Should I be offended? Do they even care that they have successfully insulted me?
Moving on to complete insults. I have met alot of amazing people in the backcountry and have the highest respect especially for those conquering some of the hardest goals. Finding out recently that two of my good friends, one of which an active member here on whiteblaze, have been the victims of uneducated mudslinging from backpacker magazine.
In a new section of their magazine - they are taking it upon themselves to review videos for their readers. This particular video covering a one year triple crown attempt. By no means meant to illustrate a how to hike - but to share their adventure. Backpacker implies that both of these hikers are trustfund babies and go on to describe them in comparison to the television idiots of "Jackass". I have known both Fiddlehead and Pieps for over 10 years and have had the honor of hiking with them. In fact I hold them up on a pedalstool of sorts. Where does backpacker get off insulting individuals they have not researched. I would love to see an article written about real long distance hikers. Not feature articles about the extremists - highly backed with equipment and sponsors up the ass. The real hikers, that make sacrafices every year in order to pay their own ways. The real hikers who can think of their feet in the wilderness, making do with what they have without support by multi billion dollar companies. The real hiker whose quest for adventure comes from the heart and sole and not the wallet.
C'mon and join the rant.......
I just wanted to open up a posting to vent my angst against coporate companies that swear to support the outdoor enthusiast and then turn around to throw dirt in their faces. There are two different recent situations that have left me with a terrible taste in my mouth.
The first is being turned down for a simple sales position at the local EMS. I was sent a form letter, being rejected for the following reasons. #1 Lack of scheduale availability #2 Lack of outdoor experience #3 Lack of retail experience. I never was even given the opportunity to speak with any of the managment team in reference to a possible schedule. For anyone who knows me, a lack of outdoor experience????? C'mon. And finally a lack of retail experience, I have been an asistant manager as well as the store manager for a couple of outlets in manchester center. Should I be offended? Do they even care that they have successfully insulted me?
Moving on to complete insults. I have met alot of amazing people in the backcountry and have the highest respect especially for those conquering some of the hardest goals. Finding out recently that two of my good friends, one of which an active member here on whiteblaze, have been the victims of uneducated mudslinging from backpacker magazine.
In a new section of their magazine - they are taking it upon themselves to review videos for their readers. This particular video covering a one year triple crown attempt. By no means meant to illustrate a how to hike - but to share their adventure. Backpacker implies that both of these hikers are trustfund babies and go on to describe them in comparison to the television idiots of "Jackass". I have known both Fiddlehead and Pieps for over 10 years and have had the honor of hiking with them. In fact I hold them up on a pedalstool of sorts. Where does backpacker get off insulting individuals they have not researched. I would love to see an article written about real long distance hikers. Not feature articles about the extremists - highly backed with equipment and sponsors up the ass. The real hikers, that make sacrafices every year in order to pay their own ways. The real hikers who can think of their feet in the wilderness, making do with what they have without support by multi billion dollar companies. The real hiker whose quest for adventure comes from the heart and sole and not the wallet.
C'mon and join the rant.......
backpacker magazine sucks:cool: neo
THe same issue also featured a HONDA DIRT BIKE ad.
All I can say is: "*** ?!?!?!?".
Backpacker is an "outdoor lifestyle magazine". It is aimed at an affluent customer who wants to look the part..but does not walk the walk. (Literally!)
Blleeeech!
the goat
12-20-2005, 16:16
backpacker blows. once you've been on one overnight trip, everything in it is rendered useless.
Lone Wolf
12-20-2005, 16:18
The new ATC mag is a rag too.
Man, I just renewed my subscription...Can I have my money back?
sliderule
12-20-2005, 17:18
The real hiker whose quest for adventure comes from the heart and sole and not the wallet.
Anyone can have a heart. But only a hiker can have a sole.
Skidsteer
12-20-2005, 18:41
backpacker blows. once you've been on one overnight trip, everything in it is rendered useless.
That sums it up better than anything I've heard. Makes you wonder what a profile of their average reader would look like.
hmm..
Backpacker has always been one of my favorite magazines. There are articles about places to go backpacking and hiking, great pictures, and lots of reviews on gear.
Depending on the conditions one is hiking in one may or may not need the gear they advertize or review. But it can make the gear shopping a bit easier.
when they review stuff and gizmo a has five starts and gizmo E has 1 star..who would really want to get gizmo E? that helps to at least narrow the search down.
So what do you guys not like about backpacker? (other than when they print articles about places to backpack these places may no longer be uncrowded..)
DavidNH
Skidsteer
12-20-2005, 19:15
hmm..
when they review stuff and gizmo a has five starts and gizmo E has 1 star..who would really want to get gizmo E? that helps to at least narrow the search down.
DavidNH
They might have a little more credibility in this area if, every so often, one of their reviewers would come out and say," Gizmo E blows big time. It has no redeeming virtues, and I wouldn't use it again even if the company gave me one for free. Oh, wait a minute, they did give me one for free...
Skidsteer
12-20-2005, 19:24
Oh-and I also don't like dirt bike ads in a magazine entitled "Backpacker". Where I come from it's called prostituting yourself.
Lost Soul
12-20-2005, 20:19
That sums it up better than anything I've heard. Makes you wonder what a profile of their average reader would look like.
FWIW
I was doing some research for my MBA and recieved a Media Kit from Backpacker for thier advertisers...
Total Audience 1,280,000
male/female 72.7%/27.3%
median age 40.2
age 18-34 39%
age 18-49 78.1%
age 25-54 75.4%
Married 57%
college educated 83.6%
graduated college 52.4%
professional/managerial 38.0%
median household income $70,950
it goes on to report that
$$241,807,500 spent on outdoor equiptment/accessories
$60,539,700 on hiking boots
$82,026,000 on technical apparel
87.8% of subscriber buy high quality products - even if they have to spend more
75.9% of subscribers are willing to pay more for brands they like
in the last 12 months subscribers averaged
4.3 overnight wilderness trips
9.6 one day wilderness dayhikes
13.7 one day or overnight wilerness trips
So in summing up it seems that readers spend loads of money are then very few actually use it. :confused:
I will admit I do like to pick up the magazine on occasion, to buying outdoor gear I use less than I'd like to and I hate thier yearly "review of gear issue." What I do like is the exposure to a variety of places I'd love to go hiking... If I could find more time.
Lost Soul
THe same issue also featured a HONDA DIRT BIKE ad.
All I can say is: "*** ?!?!?!?".
Backpacker is an "outdoor lifestyle magazine". It is aimed at an affluent customer who wants to look the part..but does not walk the walk. (Literally!)
Blleeeech!
you can say that again lol:cool: neo
Man, I just renewed my subscription...Can I have my money back?
ya wasted your money dude:cool: neo
Cookerhiker
12-20-2005, 22:07
I dropped Backpacker when they first went corporate - so long ago, I forget. Maybe 1980? The founder sold it to a publishing company named Ziff-DAvis or something like that. I've gotten along fine without it.
fiddlehead
12-20-2005, 22:20
Thanks Blister Sister. I appreciate your kind words to me. Backpacker magazine is there to make money. Lots of money. If that means they have to insult thru-hikers to do it, i guess they will. If it means recomending some gear that does not belong in the backcountry, obviously they will if the companies are paying for advertising.
So it looks like those who realize this, quit buying it years ago.
I got a kick out of that review. 1st calling us obvious trust-funders! YOu can tell he never drove the "Spaceship" or even seen it. Saying we looked half baked most of the time. Well, show me someone who does 30+ miles a day in the snow, and i'll show you someone that usually looks half baked at the end of that day. When we decide to get baked, we don't do it half-assed!
Blue Jay
12-20-2005, 22:45
The EMS you applied to obviously has idiots for management. I've found some of the individual stores to be very good (Manchester and Rutland VT, Lanesboro MA) and some to be hopelessly bad. If you want a laugh go to a NY City EMS.
The EMS you applied to obviously has idiots for management. I've found some of the individual stores to be very good (Manchester and Rutland VT, Lanesboro MA) and some to be hopelessly bad. If you want a laugh go to a NY City EMS.
the store in manchester vt has an awesome staff,they helped me find a ride to bennington after bus service was no longer availible.they were very helpful:cool: neo
Don't feel bad Blister, I've applied and/or send my hiking/retail/sales resume to 4 or 5 outfitters in the area and haven't been able to land a job either.
Maybe I'll apply again, especially ones that carry Western Mountaineering, and hope for the best. ;)
Forget EMS. You've got lots of experience and you don't wanna work there. The direction that place is heading is crap. The store in Burlington VT looks more like a clothing store than an outdoor store. I noticed last yr they started selling a surfing company line clothing (billabong or ripcurl or something) just to attract more of the casual customer rather than the gearhead. The company is looking to make money and will sell out to do so.
I work at a private non-chain, family run outfitter in Manhattan, and a guy came in the other day telling us that EMS sells UGGZ boots. Now if anyone is familiar with this fashion trend, you'll realize how far EMS has strayed from their old intentions to sell outdoor stuff.
Don't be discouraged. I've applied to different EMS' and never got a job, even with an AT thru-hike, and several other experiences under my belt. Not tryingg to say thru-hikers should be entitled to jobs because they hiked, just that spending 6 months in the woods should qualify you as much as many of the folks who work at this place. I applied when I finished the trail and I got a run around from the manager, even after a good interview. I kept getting called, and promised something was opening up. Eventually I was offered a job for holidays, and couldnt do it as a college student, and that was the end of that.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but I hardly have any faith in that place anymore. As BJ says, the store in Manhattan is a joke. They moved down the block and moved into a place a fourth of the size of the old one. Most items are day packs, and clothing to attract "recreational" folks who are trying to look outdoorsy. Similar to the the things you see in Backpacker theses days..
Don't feel bad Blister, I've applied and/or send my hiking/retail/sales resume to 4 or 5 outfitters in the area and haven't been able to land a job either.
Maybe I'll apply again, especially ones that carry Western Mountaineering, and hope for the best. ;)
It was probably thanks to WM that I got a job! I was given a test of my knowledge on the floor, and the guy interviewing me happened to start me at the WM bags. Luckily I found my bag and was able to talk to him about it till he was bored! Thanks to WB:)
when they review stuff and gizmo a has five starts and gizmo E has 1 star..who would really want to get gizmo E? that helps to at least narrow the search down.Only if you subscribe to the same standards that they do(more expensive = better, more pockets/doodads/bells/whistles = better, etc etc) and if you believe that their reviews are honest, and not influenced in any way by their advertising base. Not that there is anything wrong with this, especially if you drive a Lincoln Navigator or H2.
Forget EMS. You've got lots of experience and you don't wanna work there. The direction that place is heading is crap. The store in Burlington VT looks more like a clothing store than an outdoor store. When EMS opened a store in nearby Newington NH, it was great. All kinds of gear, and I didn't have to pay Maine sales tax like at the Kittery Trading Post. But every year they (EMS) carried less gear and more clothing, and now even the gear they carry isn't all that great.
It seems that most chains end up that way. It makes me so grateful for places like Campmor and the Kittery Trading Post and others.
This may be showing my age, but I remember when LL Bean sold camping gear kits. You could buy the fabric and a pattern and down and sew your own sleeping bag.
At least I think it was LL Bean. Now I am showing my age. Anyone remember if this is right? Seattle based company in early 70's? LL Bean? Or am I losing it? (Wife: Tom, did you go for your ADD screening today? Me: Was that today?)
Alligator
12-21-2005, 00:26
I think LL Bean has always had HQ located in Maine Frosty.
I think it was REI started in Seattle
I think LL Bean has always had HQ located in Maine Frosty.Wait! Eddie Bauer. It was Eddie Bauer!
Eddie Bauer, didn't he play for the Boston Bruins?
Ok here's the scoop. Bobby Bauer played for the Boston Bruins, Eddie Bauer started his company in Seattle in 1920's and REI started in Northwest (perhaps Seattle) in 1938.
sliderule
12-21-2005, 01:16
Wait! Eddie Bauer. It was Eddie Bauer!
Another great example of an oudoor equipment vendor that has been transformed into a fashion boutique.
gsingjane
12-21-2005, 08:03
I was up at a Y camp in northwestern CT a couple of weeks ago, and they had a game room with the usual hodge-podge of books and magazines you find in such places. But among them was... this incredible, bound collection of the first five years of Backpacker! Well I bet nobody has cracked those babies since the Reagan presidency, but I curled up nice and snug and wow, are you right, has there been a change.
Now nobody would figure that the hairstyles (yikes) or the fashions (double yikes) would have stayed the same. But what I really found interesting was that, at that time, the magazine was truly into what I'd call the "self-reliance" ethos. The idea was clearly that people needed to acquire a certain critical mass of knowledge before heading out there - maybe *because* the gear was so limited, but also because the demographic seemed a little different. Every other page had a "do it yourself" kit to make jackets, sleeping bags, even tents and backpacks! They had the wonderful, unbelievably exhaustive, comparison of trail foods by the Watermans. It was chock-full of tips about how to make and maintain your own gear, and how to trouble-shoot and fix what you did have.
Interestingly, the whole magazine made backpacking, as a sport, look a lot riskier and like it required a great deal more skill. From reading Backpacker today, one gets the impression that it's purely a function of gear - maybe that is a comforting thought, albeit an erroneous one.
Jane in CT
The idea was clearly that people needed to acquire a certain critical mass of knowledge before heading out there - maybe *because* the gear was so limited, but also because the demographic seemed a little different. Every other page had a "do it yourself" kit to make jackets, sleeping bags, even tents and backpacks! They had the wonderful, unbelievably exhaustive, comparison of trail foods by the Watermans. It was chock-full of tips about how to make and maintain your own gear, and how to trouble-shoot and fix what you did have.It was very different back then. Not nearly as many hikers/backpacers, no cell phones and personal locator beacons to call for a rescue, gear laughable by today's standards. I remember an article on making a tump line, a strap that tied to a tall backpack and went around the forehead to keep the load from leaning too far back. That was before the additionsl of equalizer and stabilizer straps, etc. Few gear manufacturers. People had less money and seemed willing to make gear. There are still places where you can buy kits, but few are interested. Of course there was more free time back then without computers and computer games, internet, etc.
But yeah, it was Eddie Bauer who sold goose down by the ounce, ripstip nylon, grommets, etc. Don't see much of that anymore in the Eddie Bauer stores in the mall :D
Cookerhiker
12-21-2005, 09:36
Anyone know what became of Bill Kelmsley (sp?), the founder of Backpacker?
At least I think it was LL Bean. Now I am showing my age. Anyone remember if this is right?
Frosty, Frosty, Frosty. Frostline Kits!
Anyone know what became of Bill Kelmsley (sp?), the founder of Backpacker?
He (Bill Kemsley) has a new book due any month now. In other words, he's still kickin'.
dont sweat the expensive mt shoots,blister sister we know most of those outfitts our for the weekend warriors:DI had a ems pack once traded it for a kelty I still have:bse ky,
Frosty, Frosty, Frosty. Frostline Kits!
You beat me to it!
I've seen a few of these sleeping bags kicking around. Kinda like the energizer bunny..still going!
From reading Backpacker today, one gets the impression that it's purely a function of gear - maybe that is a comforting thought, albeit an erroneous one.
A local outdoor magazine called MOUNTAIN GAZETTE (a very good one) has on its editorial staff John Fayhee. He used to write for Backpacker Magazine A year or so ago, he wrote an obit for backpacker magazine.
http://www.mountaingazette.com/art.php?uid=190&date=2004-10-01
Last issue, the same person also wrote two articles. One about the rise of nannyism in outdoor communities, and how gear is replacing outdoor knowledge for many people.
http://www.mountaingazette.com/art.php?uid=449&date=2005-11-01&title=The%20deceased:%20Innocent%20beers
http://www.mountaingazette.com/art.php?uid=456&date=2005-11-01&title=Stayin%E2%80%99%20alive
Your truly had a letter published this month that touches upon all of this:
http://www.mountaingazette.com/art.php?uid=469&date=2005-12-01&title=Letters
(Second to last down, by Paul Magnanti for the one or two of you who can't figure out my last name. :D)
That is the trend nowadays...gear providing perceived safety. Gear replacing knowledge. The person who wants to stay overnight in the wilderness is rare. Most of the outdoors people nowadays want their adventures to end in time for tapas during happy hour at the local mountain bar. I think Backpacker, the stores et al. are reflecting a trend in our culture and how we persue recreation. Easy, short, not too much commitment, have someone else do the hardwork for you.
Footslogger
12-21-2005, 11:56
That is the trend nowadays...gear providing perceived safety. Gear replacing knowledge. The person who wants to stay overnight in the wilderness is rare. Most of the outdoors people nowadays want their adventures to end in time for tapas during happy hour at the local mountain bar. I think Backpacker, the stores et al. are reflecting a trend in our culture and how we persue recreation. Easy, short, not too much commitment, have someone else do the hardwork for you.
======================================
How True !! ...and every piece of gear reviewed is given a gold star rating. Gotta payback all those advertisers, I guess.
'Slogger
gsingjane
12-21-2005, 12:46
I, for one, would find Backpacker greatly more interesting and helpful if it also included reviews of gear that didn't perform as advertised or promised. It doesn't have to become the "Consumer Reports" of gear (although that wuold be nice), but it would give the mag a great deal more credibility if they did review products that didn't work, or didn't work well, or that they at least didn't claim was the greatest thing ever (since the last greatest thing ever). As I understand it, what they do now is say, well, everything we review we liked, so you can draw your own conclusions as to what we *didn't* review, but that's just not helpful. How can I know whether they didn't review something because they just didn't get to it, or because it was garbage? I know from my own experience that several outdoor products don't work the way they're supposed to, or even don't work at all, but you'd sure never know that from looking at Backpacker.
Jane in CT
I, for one, would find Backpacker greatly more interesting and helpful if it also included reviews of gear that didn't perform as advertised or promised. It doesn't have to become the "Consumer Reports" of gear (although that wuold be nice), but it would give the mag a great deal more credibility if they did review products that didn't work, or didn't work well, or that they at least didn't claim was the greatest thing ever (since the last greatest thing ever). As I understand it, what they do now is say, well, everything we review we liked, so you can draw your own conclusions as to what we *didn't* review, but that's just not helpful. How can I know whether they didn't review something because they just didn't get to it, or because it was garbage? I know from my own experience that several outdoor products don't work the way they're supposed to, or even don't work at all, but you'd sure never know that from looking at Backpacker. Jane in CT
i got a gift subscription. their last 'gear issue' didn't mention a single Western Mountaineering bag. that sort of clinched it for me that i wouldn't renew on my own.
one outfitter told wouldn't hire me because they thought that i would only sell gear that i thought was good, due to experience. they were right. f*** em'
Isn't backpacker owned by REI?
Do they review REI gear?
Don't let em get you down Blister, pretenders have no use for integrity
RockyTrail
12-21-2005, 18:16
Frosty, Frosty, Frosty. Frostline Kits!
OH yeah!.... I remember those! (vaguely)
I never put one together, but they sure looked interesting.
Thanks for scraping up old memories I had long forgotten. :sun
Nightwalker
12-21-2005, 18:21
Eddie Bauer, didn't he play for the Boston Bruins?
No, that's Eddie Bear. Different guy.
Spirit Walker
12-21-2005, 18:23
Mags, Does John Fayhee still work at the outdoor store in Silverthorne? I had hoped to meet him, after reading his Colorado CDT book, but he wasn't working the day we were there. Sounds like he has gotten more interesting with age. Or maybe it's just that I agree with his philosophy.
Nightwalker
12-21-2005, 18:24
There are still places where you can buy kits, but few are interested. Of course there was more free time back then without computers and computer games, internet, etc.
I don't buy kits. I buy the material needed, make my own pattern and go to it on my own sewing machine. Maybe few are still interested, but there never were that many hard-core folks out there to begin with!
Skidsteer
12-21-2005, 18:37
one outfitter told wouldn't hire me because they thought that i would only sell gear that i thought was good, due to experience. they were right. f*** em'
You know... That may very well be why they wouldn't hire Blister, now that you bring it up.
Mags, Does John Fayhee still work at the outdoor store in Silverthorne? I had hoped to meet him, after reading his Colorado CDT book, but he wasn't working the day we were there. Sounds like he has gotten more interesting with age. Or maybe it's just that I agree with his philosophy.
You know..I don't know. Next time I'm in Silverthorne, maybe I'll stop in and ask....
QHShowoman
12-22-2005, 10:58
Backpacker is definitely NOT owned by REI.
As for EMS, there was a big shift in their product several years ago -- they used to be very camping heavy and then with the hire of a new CEO, they moved towards outerwear (and tons of it). However, EMS' leadership changed again recently and rumor has it that they will become more outdoor sport focused again. I really like both EMS stores in NYC -- both the flagship in Columbus Circle and the store in SoHo. Although their product was clearly limited to the "urban hiker," your choices really are limited in NYC. I like Paragon sports, but they are a multi-sport store and although they have a great selection of camping/backpacking gear, it's clearly not their focus. And Tent n Trails is fine, but honestly, they have so much stuff packed into their little store that it is difficult to browse without feeling claustrophobic. And the last time I was in there, I had to squeeze my way in through the hordes of North Face buyers. Campmor was by far my favorite store in the metro area, but their limited weekend hours made it difficult to get to.
I'd never been to an REI store (yes, REI was started in Washington state) prior to moving to Virginia and I love the quality and selection (although were it not for my generous employee discount, I'd be less inclined to shop there). I can't speak for all REI stores, but the one I work at (its the largest in the metro-DC area) seems to employ sales specialists with tons of knowledge in their areas ... our backpacking outfitters are really backpackers (many, if not most, have completed AT thrus as well), our paddling staff are really paddlers, etc. But again, I know this is not true for all REI stores ... I've experienced it myself.
D'Artagnan
12-22-2005, 12:44
This time of year it's kinda fun to go to a legitimate outfitter and watch all the people who have never been dirty in the woods buying up all the North Face gear. Friggin' posers. They're easy to spot since most of them are rude as hell and tend to look down their noses at the clerks. Being a regular, you can commiserate with the folks you've gotten to know and help make their day a little brighter. Don't forget that most of the people working in these places are folks just like us. Merry Christmas!
QHShowoman
12-22-2005, 13:18
This time of year it's kinda fun to go to a legitimate outfitter and watch all the people who have never been dirty in the woods buying up all the North Face gear. Friggin' posers. They're easy to spot since most of them are rude as hell and tend to look down their noses at the clerks.
Yeah, I definitely don't understand the North Face obsession. It's nice stuff, but even our store brand is better in terms of functionality. It's also probably the highest-risk stuff for theft.
Kind of a sad story about North Face though ... a guy brought in a North Face jacket he bought at another reputable retailer to be repaired, so we sent it back to North Face. When North Face returned it, they included a page long letter stating they had repaired the jacket, but couldn't warantee it as it was not a genuine North Face product. The guy was pissed, as he had bought it from another major retailer ... I figure some theif had probably purchased a legit north face product from said retailer, then returned the fake jacket with the receipt from the "real" purchase and made good money on the deal. I am sure the retailer didn't even give the jacket a second glance before re-tagging it and putting it back on the floor.
Cookerhiker
12-22-2005, 13:19
Backpacker is definitely NOT owned by REI.
As for EMS, there was a big shift in their product several years ago -- they used to be very camping heavy and then with the hire of a new CEO, they moved towards outerwear (and tons of it). However, EMS' leadership changed again recently and rumor has it that they will become more outdoor sport focused again. I really like both EMS stores in NYC -- both the flagship in Columbus Circle and the store in SoHo. Although their product was clearly limited to the "urban hiker," your choices really are limited in NYC. I like Paragon sports, but they are a multi-sport store and although they have a great selection of camping/backpacking gear, it's clearly not their focus. And Tent n Trails is fine, but honestly, they have so much stuff packed into their little store that it is difficult to browse without feeling claustrophobic. And the last time I was in there, I had to squeeze my way in through the hordes of North Face buyers. Campmor was by far my favorite store in the metro area, but their limited weekend hours made it difficult to get to.
I'd never been to an REI store (yes, REI was started in Washington state) prior to moving to Virginia and I love the quality and selection (although were it not for my generous employee discount, I'd be less inclined to shop there). I can't speak for all REI stores, but the one I work at (its the largest in the metro-DC area) seems to employ sales specialists with tons of knowledge in their areas ... our backpacking outfitters are really backpackers (many, if not most, have completed AT thrus as well), our paddling staff are really paddlers, etc. But again, I know this is not true for all REI stores ... I've experienced it myself.
The EMS store in Paramus NJ has the misfortune of being next door to Campmoor. Of course, there's no comparison! This EMS store is rather wimpy and is limited to clothing.
Having grown up in Northern NJ with family still there, I'm a big Campmoor fan. Everytime I visit family, I visit Campmoor. Their store beats any REI I've ever been in including the flagship store in Seattle and the stores in the DC area where I live now.
QHShowoman
12-22-2005, 13:29
Yeah, I miss Campmor. Lots. Sniff, sniff. Maybe I'll have time to stop by on my way home from CT to VA. I know I can order from them online/mail, but I love looking at all the stuff in person.
gsingjane
12-22-2005, 16:44
QHS, I second you on T & T in Manhattan. I truly love that store, but between the 4000 sq. ft. worth of stuff in a 1500 sq. ft. store and the thrash punk, it's a bit of a trying experience. Plus, you can pretty much be guaranteed you'll pay top dollar for whatever you buy there, unless you're fortunate enough to hit a sale or a markdown on a discontinued item.
Jane in CT
QHShowoman
12-22-2005, 16:55
The first is being turned down for a simple sales position at the local EMS. I was sent a form letter, being rejected for the following reasons. #1 Lack of scheduale availability #2 Lack of outdoor experience #3 Lack of retail experience. I never was even given the opportunity to speak with any of the managment team in reference to a possible schedule.
I wouldn't take it personally. Clearly, if you never even got a chance to speak with a manager, they weren't really looking to hire anyway. And the form letter was just that, a form letter -- so while you can be insulted that EMS doesn't even give their applicants the time of day, don't feel like this is any sort of reflection on you as an outdoorsperson.
Cookerhiker
12-22-2005, 17:00
Backpacker is definitely NOT owned by REI.
.....I'd never been to an REI store (yes, REI was started in Washington state) prior to moving to Virginia and I love the quality and selection (although were it not for my generous employee discount, I'd be less inclined to shop there). I can't speak for all REI stores, but the one I work at (its the largest in the metro-DC area) seems to employ sales specialists with tons of knowledge in their areas ... our backpacking outfitters are really backpackers (many, if not most, have completed AT thrus as well), our paddling staff are really paddlers, etc. But again, I know this is not true for all REI stores ... I've experienced it myself.
Which REI do you work in - Fairfax or Bailey's Crossroads?
QHShowoman
12-22-2005, 17:18
Bailey's X-Roads.
I love working there so much they should probably put me in a recruitment video or something. I wish I could afford to make it my full-time job.
the goat
12-22-2005, 19:04
Bailey's X-Roads.
I love working there so much they should probably put me in a recruitment video or something. I wish I could afford to make it my full-time job.
yeah, i like that one, nothin but good experiences there.:sun
NICKTHEGREEK
12-22-2005, 19:05
"In fact I hold them up on a pedalstool of sorts"
That may be why EMS took a pass on hiring you.
Like everyone else, corporations have to pay bills. Then, they get investors. Investors just want to make money, and don't give a flying leap about the "vision". Other than Backpacker, there isn't much out there. I have a subscription. Some issues are completely worthless, and others have some good bits. I take out of it what I can use, and pitch the rest. Thru hikers may be great people, but the majority of them don't have tons of money to throw around, especially the kind of money it takes to expand a high profile magazine. I don't have the answer, though.
QHS, I second you on T & T in Manhattan. I truly love that store, but between the 4000 sq. ft. worth of stuff in a 1500 sq. ft. store and the thrash punk, it's a bit of a trying experience. Plus, you can pretty much be guaranteed you'll pay top dollar for whatever you buy there, unless you're fortunate enough to hit a sale or a markdown on a discontinued item.
Jane in CT
I work at Tent and Trails. Yes we have A LOT of stuff crammed in, and it can be a bit crazy, but we've also got a ridiculous selection of gear and clothing and rent ain't exactly cheap in NYC, especially for a family run business. Thrash Punk? If I think I know what you are refering to, he no longer works there. Lastly, some of the prices of merchandise are the lowest i've ever seen and i'm not saying that because I'm an employee. Yes our sales are the best buys but most things are 10% less than retail. I mean Chaco sandles are 68 bucks normal price, and 90 everywhere else.
Anyway, TnT is by no means perfect. EMS, and even Paragon are laid out better, more organized, and cleaner, but I guess it's up to the customer to decide whether they want to support a huge corporate company or a family run, non-chain store with knowledgeable staff, that aren't trying to sell you crap.
Campmor is the best of all, but alas you need to drive there. Its in its own category. Never got why EMS is right next door though...
gsingjane
12-23-2005, 09:03
A-train, sorry you missed the very first part of my post, that said... "I truly love that store."
Merry Christmas and happy un-strike!
J. in CT.
rest. Thru hikers may be great people, but the majority of them don't have tons of money to throw around, especially the kind of money it takes to expand a high profile magazine. I don't have the answer, though.
Majority of people don't have that kind of money to throw around, period.
Take a looksee at most outdoor magazines, Backpacker fits the same mold.
All the magazines are aimed at an affluent customer who dabbles in the hobby of choice. Nothing wrong with that per se...I am a big fan of making a product people want and marekting it.
However, Backpacker (and most outdoor magazines) do not fit the needs of the average consumer, much less a thru-hiker.
Forget the fact I've done the trails I've done.
If I just started backpacking, and I lifted up a copy of Bper mag, I'd be overwhelmed at the amount of money I'd have to spend! The ads would also tell me right away that the magazine is aimed at a much more affluent person than I.
Anyway..as with you I don't have the answer.
For the average person, think a book is a better way to learn about general backpacking. And on-line resources of course!
for the average person....hiking is more likely the best way to learn what works for their own likes and dislikes.
i agree, most gear reviews...even here, are just down right crap, more likely people suggest what they have cause it works for them. The folks who test gear try 4 or 5 and then rate them more or less equal, cause if any one of us did the same thing, we could make what we have work for what we are trying to do.
and blister minimum wage is not what yer looking for, even if you think it is what you wanna do.
You are very correct in the fact I really don't want a minimum wage job. I was actually averaging approx 32 dollars per hour right before the holidays. Just to let a few of you out there that do not know me.... I am not desperate for a job and would have wanted to work for EMS for discounts ect, by no means making a career there. I have a wonderful resume and at any point when job hunting usually end up with many offers. What I do take offense to within this thread are the pm's and comments I have recieved that refer to my association of hiking friends has been the real reason for not getting the job. Get real people. I am very proud of the friendship bonds that I have and would never trade them for a pathetic sales job at ems.
for the average person....hiking is more likely the best way to learn what works for their own likes and dislikes.
To an extent. However, when I started hiking , I though blue jeans and work boots was the way to go.
I learned differently from reading books. Talking to more experienced people .People are not born with an inate knowledge of cottons vs. wool, polypro vs. cotton long johns, etc.
You need a base to start off. And that base is initially received from learning the basics. Once the basic are learned, THEN you can learn what works better.
And I sure as hell not going to learn that from backpacking magazine.
The Solemates
12-29-2005, 15:30
A local outdoor magazine called MOUNTAIN GAZETTE (a very good one) has on its editorial staff John Fayhee. He used to write for Backpacker Magazine A year or so ago, he wrote an obit for backpacker magazine.
http://www.mountaingazette.com/art.php?uid=190&date=2004-10-01
Last issue, the same person also wrote two articles. One about the rise of nannyism in outdoor communities, and how gear is replacing outdoor knowledge for many people.
http://www.mountaingazette.com/art.php?uid=449&date=2005-11-01&title=The%20deceased:%20Innocent%20beers
http://www.mountaingazette.com/art.php?uid=456&date=2005-11-01&title=Stayin%E2%80%99%20alive
Your truly had a letter published this month that touches upon all of this:
http://www.mountaingazette.com/art.php?uid=469&date=2005-12-01&title=Letters
(Second to last down, by Paul Magnanti for the one or two of you who can't figure out my last name. :D)
That is the trend nowadays...gear providing perceived safety. Gear replacing knowledge. The person who wants to stay overnight in the wilderness is rare. Most of the outdoors people nowadays want their adventures to end in time for tapas during happy hour at the local mountain bar. I think Backpacker, the stores et al. are reflecting a trend in our culture and how we persue recreation. Easy, short, not too much commitment, have someone else do the hardwork for you.
this was hilarious. thanks for sharing.
You are very correct in the fact I really don't want a minimum wage job. I was actually averaging approx 32 dollars per hour right before the holidays. Just to let a few of you out there that do not know me.... I am not desperate for a job and would have wanted to work for EMS for discounts ect, by no means making a career there. I have a wonderful resume and at any point when job hunting usually end up with many offers. What I do take offense to within this thread are the pm's and comments I have recieved that refer to my association of hiking friends has been the real reason for not getting the job. Get real people. I am very proud of the friendship bonds that I have and would never trade them for a pathetic sales job at ems.
Hehe, you've just laid out perfectly good reasons for the no-hire. Blister, you are on my short list of favorite people I've met in the last 10 years, but given the above, I wouldn't hire ya either! Come on admit it. This is not a corporate problem, it's a hiker problem.
chief
QHShowoman
12-29-2005, 16:28
What I do take offense to within this thread are the pm's and comments I have recieved that refer to my association of hiking friends has been the real reason for not getting the job.
Well, that's just stupid (the comments about your friends).
Some folks here are so immature.
Backpacker Mag is not an REI offshoot, but is published by Rodale Press, and is one of many titles under this company's banner. Rodale is probably best known for its periodicals and books having to do with health foods, holistic medicine, etc. It has undergone several incarnations, and IMHO with each passing of the torch it grows more corporate and less human.
As for all these chain stores like REI, EMS (and some even less worthy I won't mention) I don't think any of them can hold their own against most of the better known independents in AT trail towns. I'm thinking of places like Mountain Crossings (Neels Gap), Bluff Mt. Outfitters (Hot Springs), Mahoney's (Erwin/Johnson City), Mt. Rogers Outfitters and Sundog's (Damascus), Rockfish Gap Outfitters (Waynesboro), Wilderness Voyagers (Harrisonburg), Weasel Creek Outfitters (Front Royal), and The Outfitter at Harpers Ferry. Campmor has great selection and decent prices, but unless you happen to be in NJ you'll get better face-to-face service and very knowledgeable staff at businesses like these for not very much more $$$.
>> So what do you guys not like about backpacker?
They still won't review the Miracle Pack from Victoria's Secret in their annual gear review. What is this, the seventh year in a row or the eighth that I've petitioned Backpacker Magazine to include it?
Datto
>> So what do you guys not like about backpacker? Datto
that it's all ads, inserts, and hype. it has few full length articles more than a page long, or that are printed in a normal type in black ink on a white page. it's usually hard to pick out the ads from the articles... three separate "articles" on one page isn't my kind of journalism. the last issue had a decent enough story about dog sledding, but, like the one about kayaking in the atchafalaya basin awhile back, it was more about 'look at me! i'm special. i did something different this weekend that no one back at the office cubicle farm has done'.
(we are all unique. but so is everyone else.)
A bunch of folks have made reference to making their own gear and I just wanted to put in a plug for Ragged Mtn Sports in Intervale NH:
http://www.raggedmountain.com/categories.php?cat=172
They sell fabrics, patterns, buckles, webbing, etc. I have also had good luck with the clothing they make there. Simple and good!
I bought fabrics and a pattern to make a bivy (bivouac) sack years ago...The top was Gore Tex, which was terribly expensive. I was so afraid to make a mistake cutting it that it sat around for....an embarassingly long time until I finally got someone else to cut out the pattern pieces for me. Then it went together very easily and I use it all the time. I happened to end up with red gore tex (it was on sale!) so I look like a giant chili pepper lying in the snow...It was a fun project though!
Mission Man
05-29-2009, 12:08
Hello to All, My experience with Campmor was not a pleasant one. After receiving items from the online store (awful website design B.T.W.), I was not satisfied with the products. The descriptions on the website were to say the least inaccurate and photos not helpful to my purchase as I found out too late. I called customer service, waited long time for a Rep.. Finally someone named Mike came on, I explained the issue to him, and he said “send items back”. Then I thought to myself, no RMA# was offered and I didn’t even get to explain that I wanted my shipping costs back. So I called again and asked for a supervisor waited about another 5 minutes. When the supervisor came on again I tried to explain that I would like my UPS shipping costs returned to me, immediately he began argument, “why didn’t I call & ask more questions about the item?” I told him the item was just a wallet, simple measurement (Camphor’s mistake). More argument and more couldn’t take it anymore this blame the customer B.S. when it’s clearly Camphor’s mistake & lousy attitude on the part of some employees. Perhaps things are different at the store but this reflects very badly on the company as a whole in my opinion. I will NEVER RECOMMEND or SHOP at CAMPMOR………EVER!
Gray Blazer
05-29-2009, 12:37
Old thread. Maybe they shouda hired Blister.
skinewmexico
05-29-2009, 13:24
I just read all these without realizing it was a zombie thread. No wonder the Mountain Gazette link didn't work.
I like all the mags, books and tv shows truly I'm addicted to Hiking (ATH) my wife thinks i'm crazy cause everywhere we go I look for a place to hike, could be a hour, a day or a life time I like the great outdoors. Now when she looks for vactions spots she looks at me and said there's trails close by yahooooooo!
I just read all these without realizing it was a zombie thread. No wonder the Mountain Gazette link didn't work.
..and in a sign of the times..MG got bought out since I posted those links. The magazine is slicker, now has mountain real estate ads and lost a good chunk of what made the magazine what it was.
C'est la vie.
I work for LL Bean last winter for extra money to feed my addiction for hiking they paid very well and was a great place to work. Planned on trying to work for bass pro shop this winter part time for extra saving money for hiking
skinewmexico
05-29-2009, 15:15
..and in a sign of the times..MG got bought out since I posted those links. The magazine is slicker, now has mountain real estate ads and lost a good chunk of what made the magazine what it was.
C'est la vie.
Like REI and Backpacker mag - the slick cookbook for the 2 yacht family.
"Real hikers" don't keep outfitters open. Suburban housewives and weekend warriors buying clothing and shoes do.
Such is the real world.
joehiker22
06-06-2009, 15:38
EMS is ok. I like their house brand gear more than REI.
joehiker22
06-06-2009, 15:39
Real hikers make their own gear!
Wow, lots of angry complaining people. I think I have to get back to the trail.
YoungMoose
06-06-2009, 16:18
I dont like ems but i dont like their people. their people dont give a dam. I had to return a rain jacket becuase it leaked (it was even their brand) and they didnt take it back. they said " we dont follow the return policy". Even though online it says every store does. When i called the company itself they said that each store is allowed to make their decisions.
YoungMoose
06-06-2009, 16:19
Wow, lots of angry complaining people. I think I have to get back to the trail. hehe :mad::confused::mad::confused:
Real hikers make their own gear!
I'm a fake hiker..I don't think I've ever made my own gear. What can I say..I ain't nothing but a pack sniffer...
...I ain't nothing but a pack sniffer...
I bet a person could sniff your pack from across a large room.:D
brooklynkayak
06-08-2009, 19:26
As BJ says, the store in Manhattan is a joke. They moved down the block and moved into a place a fourth of the size of the old one. Most items are day packs, and clothing to attract "recreational" folks who are trying to look outdoorsy. Similar to the the things you see in Backpacker theses days..
I'd guess they couldn't stay in business in Manhattan, especially in SOHO, where their office is located, if they stuck to real outdoor gear.
That neighborhood is only for trendy fashion types and wealthy people trying to spend as much money as they can in one afternoon.
SOHO is not what it used to be and I just can't imagine hiker trash like me going there.
There are a very low percentage of overnight backpackers in Manhattan, lots of day hikers, but most are uncomfortable spending much time outdoors. You need to get outside the city to find people who would tolerate overnight backpacking and that is where the real backpacking outfitters are.
This is coming from someone who lived most of my life in Manhattan.
Feral Bill
06-08-2009, 22:29
:(
I'd guess they couldn't stay in business in Manhattan, especially in SOHO, where their office is located, if they stuck to real outdoor gear.
That neighborhood is only for trendy fashion types and wealthy people trying to spend as much money as they can in one afternoon.
SOHO is not what it used to be and I just can't imagine hiker trash like me going there.
There are a very low percentage of overnight backpackers in Manhattan, lots of day hikers, but most are uncomfortable spending much time outdoors. You need to get outside the city to find people who would tolerate overnight backpacking and that is where the real backpacking outfitters are.
This is coming from someone who lived most of my life in Manhattan.
That's sad. Many years ago there were several good outfitters downtown. Leon Greenmans, Camp and Trail, and others. Mostly all gone now. You could get good gear and solid advice anytime. I still have some of that gear, too.:(
I bet a person could sniff your pack from across a large room.:D
I just got back from a night hike (Didjya know this is called the Full Strawberry Moon ?!?!) where I made everyone strawberry sundaes at the summit. (The ice cream melted to just the right consistency). I was good and just ate the bananas and strawberries sans ice cream. :)
Anyway.. before I hit the shower a bit ago, my socks were..er pungent.
Sock Sniffer may be a more appropriate and derogatory term. ;)
I was good and just ate the bandannas and strawberries sans ice cream. :)
Is that a line of new edible bandannas, or are you really that trashy.
I suppose if they were tasty, what the heck.
Is that a line of new edible bandannas, or are you really that trashy.
I suppose if they were tasty, what the heck.
...a bit salty..but otherwise fine. ;)
(Note to self: Do not write an e-mail after you've hiked 6 miles and return home at midnight or so. :D)