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twistwrist
03-06-2016, 19:43
Hey y'all! The best way to live is to live as a lifelong learner. So read up to learn some easy ways to ensure you're (and the other thrus this year!) setting yourself up for success from the beginning! I'm stationed at Amicalola working with hikers before and as they set off on their journey. Hope to meet some of you all this season! ~Clarity

Top 10 Mishaps of Beginning Thru-Hikers (http://appalachiantrailclarity.com/2016/03/06/top-10-mistakes-new-thru-hikers-make/)

Abatis1948
03-06-2016, 20:59
Very good post. While you are greeting these new thru hikers are you asking them if they are White Blaze members or at least if they visit the forum or other forums concerning hiking the AT. I would like to know how many have done research before the hike.

MuddyWaters
03-06-2016, 21:30
5. Carrying a pack weighing 50 pounds or more

While I certainly agree that 50 is a huge mistake, I think that for long distance success, ie 1000 miles and up, in strenuous terrain, the mistake bar is positioned a tad lower than that. Yeah, some can carry 50-60. But with every lb , chances of success are reduced. And we'd like people to have a high chance of success, higher than say...1980.

Nice post.
Hope you can help a few before they get on the trail.

Malto
03-06-2016, 22:41
You will have plenty of disagreement with the food in the tent as well as the trail runners.

Tipi Walter
03-07-2016, 09:50
Allow me my fanatical blaspheming but here are some of the mistakes I see thruhikers making (from observations in a trip report on an 18 day trip in April 2015)---

THREE BACKPACKERS SEEN IN 18 DAYS
All of them were associated with the BMT which gets me to rethink the thruhiker mentality. Backpacking is a strange affliction anyway and thruhiking a long trail is a specialized version of an already narrow field. General backpacking for most is a weekend 3 to 5 day trip. The opposite of thruhking would be expedition backpacking, hence the need for an expedition pack. But that's another subject. Here are some observations---(about some thruhikers)---


** Thruhikers are on a forced march whereby daily mileage is vital and may be the most important aspect of their outdoor experience. This mindset limits their ability to go off trail on blue blaze adventures and to possibly derail the entire hike to explore other trails. Mistake #1.


** Thruhikers generally hate deviating from the prescribed path as then they won't be "official" and can't get the patch and recognition. Mistake #1.5.


** Thruhikers generally cannot carry more than 5 days worth of food because their packs are not designed to handle the weight. This complicates matters and results in the following point---
** Thruhikers obsess about the next town and the next resupply. Some will travel fast thru beautiful country on a big mile day just to reach a town and to get a motel room. Instead of pulling short mile days or zero days on the trail in their tents, they often drool over hot showers, soft beds and restaurant meals. For this reason they pour over their guide books and maps and data books to plan their next town trips and resupply, so when I meet them out in the woods they are either coming from a town or heading out to a town. It's depressing. Mistake #2.


** And here's the kicker: Thruhikers use up big chunks of time to do their hikes like 20 or 30 or many more days but you will never see a thruhiker using that block of time to carry 30 days worth of food and stay out in a wilderness area with hundreds of miles of trails and loops opportunities. For some reason their brains cannot compute such an "expedition"---an uninterrupted month in the backcountry with no laundry mats and no motel rooms and no restaurants and little to no cell service and no battery recharging---just them and their gear and food for a month. Mistake #3.


For some reason such backpacking is not official like a completed thruhike and there's no recognition and no patch and yet they all have the time to do such trips. It must be the social aspect and town support and the shelter system which these backpackers find so attractive. It's definitely not about getting an unbroken amount of time out in the woods.

There's also another mistake (#4) I just remembered while editing this: How many newb thruhikers on the AT become seasoned trail and backpacking experts after just 3 short months on the trail. Many of them will sit at shelters "holding court" whereby they will take your questions about all things Ruck but never ask a single question from anyone in attendance. I call it Holding Court as the elite Trail Prince has arrived and will now deign to take your questions. It's an offshoot of the pecking order: Thruhikers are at the top of the rung, section hikers far below, and mere weekend backpackers don't rate. Just my opinion.

Lone Wolf
03-07-2016, 10:09
tipi is correct

Lone Wolf
03-07-2016, 10:22
tipi is correct

and an AT thru-hike is about the destination not the journey

DuneElliot
03-07-2016, 10:27
Allow me my fanatical blaspheming but here are some of the mistakes I see thruhikers making (from observations in a trip report on an 18 day trip in April 2015)---

THREE BACKPACKERS SEEN IN 18 DAYS
All of them were associated with the BMT which gets me to rethink the thruhiker mentality. Backpacking is a strange affliction anyway and thruhiking a long trail is a specialized version of an already narrow field. General backpacking for most is a weekend 3 to 5 day trip. The opposite of thruhking would be expedition backpacking, hence the need for an expedition pack. But that's another subject. Here are some observations---(about some thruhikers)---


** Thruhikers are on a forced march whereby daily mileage is vital and may be the most important aspect of their outdoor experience. This mindset limits their ability to go off trail on blue blaze adventures and to possibly derail the entire hike to explore other trails. Mistake #1.


** Thruhikers generally hate deviating from the prescribed path as then they won't be "official" and can't get the patch and recognition. Mistake #1.5.


** Thruhikers generally cannot carry more than 5 days worth of food because their packs are not designed to handle the weight. This complicates matters and results in the following point---
** Thruhikers obsess about the next town and the next resupply. Some will travel fast thru beautiful country on a big mile day just to reach a town and to get a motel room. Instead of pulling short mile days or zero days on the trail in their tents, they often drool over hot showers, soft beds and restaurant meals. For this reason they pour over their guide books and maps and data books to plan their next town trips and resupply, so when I meet them out in the woods they are either coming from a town or heading out to a town. It's depressing. Mistake #2.


** And here's the kicker: Thruhikers use up big chunks of time to do their hikes like 20 or 30 or many more days but you will never see a thruhiker using that block of time to carry 30 days worth of food and stay out in a wilderness area with hundreds of miles of trails and loops opportunities. For some reason their brains cannot compute such an "expedition"---an uninterrupted month in the backcountry with no laundry mats and no motel rooms and no restaurants and little to no cell service and no battery recharging---just them and their gear and food for a month. Mistake #3.


For some reason such backpacking is not official like a completed thruhike and there's no recognition and no patch and yet they all have the time to do such trips. It must be the social aspect and town support and the shelter system which these backpackers find so attractive. It's definitely not about getting an unbroken amount of time out in the woods.

There's also another mistake (#4) I just remembered while editing this: How many newb thruhikers on the AT become seasoned trail and backpacking experts after just 3 short months on the trail. Many of them will sit at shelters "holding court" whereby they will take your questions about all things Ruck but never ask a single question from anyone in attendance. I call it Holding Court as the elite Trail Prince has arrived and will now deign to take your questions. It's an offshoot of the pecking order: Thruhikers are at the top of the rung, section hikers far below, and mere weekend backpackers don't rate. Just my opinion.


Nicely said, although carrying 30 days of food is nothing short of impossible without animals. I fully admit that I would prefer to worry less about towns and resupplies...I go hike in the woods because I want to be in the woods, not in town. I do like meeting new people on the trail though.

Puddlefish
03-07-2016, 10:42
I chuckled at the holding court part. Some people just like to hear themselves speak. I was sitting in a crowded airport, and this guy was talking non stop about some NASCAR driver, who wink wink nudge nudge, was sneakily/not sneakily retaliating against some other driver. He carried on for 20 minutes while the poor woman next to him looked like she wanted to chew her leg off to escape. People who talk at captive audiences suck.

I'm still a mere day hiker at this point, so I don't even rate on your list... but some of the mistakes I see are people on White Blaze who are here solely to drive their Youtube hits. Never a word of support, never a bit of advice, never adding an interesting opinion to a discussion, just looking for openings to tell about their most recent video.

I generally don't even click on the "10 things you didn't know you were doing wrong!," life hacks, trail tips, or any other of the "teach your grandmother to suck eggs" kind of silliness. It's not against the websites TOS of course, it's just not interesting to me.

Malto
03-07-2016, 11:00
Allow me my fanatical blaspheming but here are some of the mistakes I see thruhikers making (from observations in a trip report on an 18 day trip in April 2015)---

THREE BACKPACKERS SEEN IN 18 DAYS
All of them were associated with the BMT which gets me to rethink the thruhiker mentality. Backpacking is a strange affliction anyway and thruhiking a long trail is a specialized version of an already narrow field. General backpacking for most is a weekend 3 to 5 day trip. The opposite of thruhking would be expedition backpacking, hence the need for an expedition pack. But that's another subject. Here are some observations---(about some thruhikers)---


** Thruhikers are on a forced march whereby daily mileage is vital and may be the most important aspect of their outdoor experience. This mindset limits their ability to go off trail on blue blaze adventures and to possibly derail the entire hike to explore other trails. Mistake #1.


** Thruhikers generally hate deviating from the prescribed path as then they won't be "official" and can't get the patch and recognition. Mistake #1.5.


** Thruhikers generally cannot carry more than 5 days worth of food because their packs are not designed to handle the weight. This complicates matters and results in the following point---
** Thruhikers obsess about the next town and the next resupply. Some will travel fast thru beautiful country on a big mile day just to reach a town and to get a motel room. Instead of pulling short mile days or zero days on the trail in their tents, they often drool over hot showers, soft beds and restaurant meals. For this reason they pour over their guide books and maps and data books to plan their next town trips and resupply, so when I meet them out in the woods they are either coming from a town or heading out to a town. It's depressing. Mistake #2.


** And here's the kicker: Thruhikers use up big chunks of time to do their hikes like 20 or 30 or many more days but you will never see a thruhiker using that block of time to carry 30 days worth of food and stay out in a wilderness area with hundreds of miles of trails and loops opportunities. For some reason their brains cannot compute such an "expedition"---an uninterrupted month in the backcountry with no laundry mats and no motel rooms and no restaurants and little to no cell service and no battery recharging---just them and their gear and food for a month. Mistake #3.


For some reason such backpacking is not official like a completed thruhike and there's no recognition and no patch and yet they all have the time to do such trips. It must be the social aspect and town support and the shelter system which these backpackers find so attractive. It's definitely not about getting an unbroken amount of time out in the woods.

There's also another mistake (#4) I just remembered while editing this: How many newb thruhikers on the AT become seasoned trail and backpacking experts after just 3 short months on the trail. Many of them will sit at shelters "holding court" whereby they will take your questions about all things Ruck but never ask a single question from anyone in attendance. I call it Holding Court as the elite Trail Prince has arrived and will now deign to take your questions. It's an offshoot of the pecking order: Thruhikers are at the top of the rung, section hikers far below, and mere weekend backpackers don't rate. Just my opinion.

mistake or maybe they have different goals than you?

Puddlefish
03-07-2016, 11:14
mistake or maybe they have different goals than you?

I probably could have condensed my rambling post down to this sentence, directed at both Walter and the OP.

Uriah
03-07-2016, 11:24
I probably could have condensed my rambling post down to this sentence, directed at both Walter and the OP.

Indeed. I'd rather be out there making mistakes than inside on an Internet forum talking about those making the mistakes.

Traillium
03-07-2016, 11:26
Tipi, I'm glowing to be reflecting deeply as I pursue a thruhike starting Ina couple of months.
I will attempt to have an A-to-B mentality, but I know I will at the same time be missing and at times deliberately bypassing so many potential experiences along the way …


Bruce Traillium

mountain squid
03-07-2016, 11:32
Nice article!

Here are my 'observations from fs42' (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/14493-observations-from-fs42-(advice-for-first-week-on-trail)?highlight=) over the past 10 years.

Some additional thoughts/reiterations:

- strive for a 30#ish pack
- as far as clothing, if you won't wear it all at the same time, you're probably carrying too much (with possible exception of undergarments/socks)
- 2-3 pr of socks max and always keep one pr dry
- low mileage days to start (if you get to campsite/shelter, at when you 'think' is too early, stop anyway. Setup camp and wait for the stream of hikers to arrive ... your feet, legs, back will thank-you!)
- make an itinerary for the first week or so ... and stick to it! (plan for the 'bear area').
- at each break, take off shoes and socks to allow feet to air dry and tend to hot spots immediately
- until the leaves come out, don't forget some sunscreen
- as it gets warmer, don't underestimate the amount of water needed (Georgia Mountains are tough with no water)
- you need money! Regardless of what you've heard, don't expect hiker feeds or full hiker boxes or work-for-stays at hostels. Cold weather might mean extra town stays.
- don't be stubborn ... consider other hikers advice. (All too often, when someone asks for advice here, if said advice is contrary to their thoughts/expectations the hiker might dismiss the advice and try to justify their own thoughts/expectations.)

For future years hikers:
- if possible go to Neel Gap a year or two prior to your hike. Preferably during 'thru hiker' season. You'll see and learn so much from the experienced staff and the current years, inexperienced hikers (try not to laugh - it'll be you soon).
- if possible go to Trail Days in Damascus, VA. Great opportunity for light weight gear purchases!
- research gear choices and make wise decisions. Ask on WhiteBlaze for suggestions and reviews. If you can get your big 3 (tent, sleeping bag, backpack) to around 5-6 pounds, you're doing very good.
- shakedown hikes can be very beneficial but not always necessary. You can figure out how to use your gear in your backyard or in a local park.
- don't be stubborn ... consider other hikers advice. (All too often, when someone asks for advice here, if said advice is contrary to their thoughts/expectations the hiker might dismiss the advice and try to justify their own thoughts/expectations.)

The first day of a long distance hike is very exciting. That excitement can wear off quickly, though, if you are struggling up the mountains. However, you will find excitement again at the shelter/campsite when you meet all your fellow hikers, compare gear (gear envy!) and prepare your first package of ramen noodles for dinner (haha)!

You don't have to be in 'great' shape or have the 'lightest pack', but doing what you can beforehand will help your enjoyment in the beginning! How does that saying go? - Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance (there might be an extra P in there!)

Good Luck and Have Fun everyone!

See you on the trail,
mt squid

(http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?100363-2014-Norovirus-Awareness)how to hike (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?73587-how-to-hike)
twitter (https://twitter.com/mountainsquid04)

Slo-go'en
03-07-2016, 13:25
** And here's the kicker: Thruhikers use up big chunks of time to do their hikes like 20 or 30 or many more days but you will never see a thruhiker using that block of time to carry 30 days worth of food and stay out in a wilderness area with hundreds of miles of trails and loops opportunities. For some reason their brains cannot compute such an "expedition"---an uninterrupted month in the backcountry with no laundry mats and no motel rooms and no restaurants and little to no cell service and no battery recharging---just them and their gear and food for a month. Mistake #3.


Well, the whole point of a thru hike is to go from Point A to Point B, not to base camp and wander around one area for a month. There is nothing wrong with base camping, but it's not thru hiking.

Another Kevin
03-07-2016, 15:07
Hmmm. Clarity, I'd say that's a great post, but I'd say that from what I read in it, you left out mistake #0: starting out without any multiday backpacking experience at all. I'll probably never be a thru-hiker of any major trail (the idea of walking away from my life for half a year doesn't appeal), but I like to think that I'd avoid most of what you mention. I have done some 100+-mile trips (seriously endangering my claim to be a clueless weekender!), and I can't imagine that Springer to NOC would be that different from any other hundred-mile hike I've done.

So, how would I plan as someone with a lot of weekends and a few short sections behind me?

I'm not asking anyone to shake down my pack. It sees enough bumping and shaking as it is.

I over-carry food a little bit. I like being able to make the occasional unexpected side trip, and I'm accustomed to bushwhacking, where times can be very uncertain, so I do occasionally take an extra day (and like to eat on that day). I also do slightly more elaborate cooking than most hikers, because I find that good food (well, better than what most hikers consume, anyway) is a tremendous morale booster for me.

I'd carry about a pound more water than you recommend. In well-watered country, I fill my 2 litre Camelbak, and carry about a pint as a "reserve tank" because it's hard to check how much I've got in the reservoir and I hate running out.

My big three are in the 6-7 pound range, but that's because I don't have a summer bag and carry my 3-season kit through the summer. If I ever were to do a thru-hike, I'd invest in a summer-weight sleeping bag and be down in mt squid's 5-6 pound range - from Hot Springs or Erwin to Hanover, where I'd pick up the cool-weather gear again. I don't go overboard on the clothing, but I do like to have an extra baselayer or set of underwear (depending on the weather) so that I can change from skin out for sleeping.

I carry rather more toys than most thru-hikers. I'm often out there to do photography, or mapmaking, so I have the necessary gear, and I carry my bucket and piece of Tyvek (less than half a pound together) because I like to be able to bathe. And if I can't have real cofffee I'm not going, so there's one Nalgene bottle that serves me for coffee maker and cup and Thermos (with a Reflectix jacket), and a Melitta coffee funnel.

Aside from that, my pack is pretty middle-of-the-road. I don't weigh it, so I don't try to make any kind of magic number. But I figure that if I can carry it on a hundred-mile trilp, I could carry it on a thru. I don't go crazy with clothing, but I do like having an extra baselayer so that I can be in dry gear from skin out for sleeping.

If you ever find my poo or TP improperly disposed of, you have my permission to shoot me.

I wouldn't sleep with food on a busy trail like the A-T, which must have habituated wildlife from end to end. (What I do when I'm miles off any trail is my business and the bears'.)

I don't ever plan more than 10-12 miles/day out of the gate until I know what's what. On the Northville-Placid (138 miles, my most recent hike long enough to need resupply), I found myself doing 15's a couple of times, just because. I figure that if I were to start a traditional thru, or do the southern end as a section, I'd wind up rolling into Slaughter Creek mid-afternoon after a twelve-mile day and unwisely deciding to push on to Neels Gap, then spending a zero-day at Mountain Crossings gulping ibuprofen and cursing my foolishness. And I know that no matter how much I told myself in advance that I wasn't going to do that, I'd do it anyway. Otherwise, I think I'd probably follow AWOL's 12-mile/day plan pretty closely until my body told me that it was time to start pushing harder. A fourteen-mile/day average is enough to finish in six months, even if you take twenty zeroes, so there would be time to start increasing mileage gradually.

On the other hand, I think I'd have to push hard in GSMNP, given what the shelter spacing is there. I understand you're allowed only 8 days/7 nights: Birch Spring, Spence Field, Derrick Knob, Double Spring Gap, Newfound Gap, Peck's Corner, Cosby Knob - no zero day for me in Gatlinburg, and either a hurried resupply at end of day after making it down to Newfound Gap or else ten miles on top of grocery shopping the next day. Unless by that point I've found my trail legs enough to try for an itinerary like Fontana-Russell Field-Silers Bald-Newfound Gap, or an even more aggressive Newfound Gap-Tricorner Knob-Standing Bear, I'd be right up against Uncle Sam's deadline through there.But maybe by then I'd be hiking efficiently enough that tthose mileages wouldn't be a problem. I don't ever see myself doing something like Fontana - Spence Field - Mt Collins - Pecks - Standing Bear, which I've seen in a couple of trail journals. I'm an old man, I don't go that fast.

So, am I sensible or totally clueless? What I've described sounds like a significantly less mileage- and weight-obsessed plan that most of what I read around here, but feels like something that I could handle, ideally as one or more section hikes when the bubble isn't going by. But I'm probably advocating my own set of stupid mistakes.

Seatbelt
03-07-2016, 15:55
Mistake #11 .... reading this thread instead of getting out there and do'in it.

Seatbelt
03-07-2016, 15:57
After the 1st post that is.

colorado_rob
03-07-2016, 16:00
mistake or maybe they have different goals than you?I'd say so! Like maybe hiking through new, fantastically beautiful areas rather than wandering around the same woods over and over and over and over and over for weeks on end????

Anyway, thanks for posting OP, maybe some will listen.

twistwrist
03-07-2016, 16:42
5. Carrying a pack weighing 50 pounds or more

While I certainly agree that 50 is a huge mistake, I think that for long distance success, ie 1000 miles and up, in strenuous terrain, the mistake bar is positioned a tad lower than that. Yeah, some can carry 50-60. But with every lb , chances of success are reduced. And we'd like people to have a high chance of success, higher than say...1980.

Nice post.
Hope you can help a few before they get on the trail.

Agreed. In practice if their pack is above 40 pounds, I offer a shakedown or advice they can take or leave. However, because I understand the sensitivity of the pack weight issue, I opted to use 50 for the article as it's a bit less arguable. My goal isn't to ever cause arguments or convince anyone of anything, only to help people think of things they may not have thought of before. It's how I roll. I love learning from others!


You will have plenty of disagreement with the food in the tent as well as the trail runners.

Of course I will! The numbers of bear incidents since the year 2000 have clearly augmented to the point of bears being killed as we are becoming more and more associated with food. Sleeping with your food is fine...until that one time it's not. And then, well, hope you're able to scare him off. Bear canisters are regulated on trails out west. I guess my hope is that if we'd all be a little more cautious with our food, we could avoid those kinds of regulations on the A.T.


and an AT thru-hike is about the destination not the journey

Not for all of us. I'm still enjoying the journey!

twistwrist
03-07-2016, 16:45
Very good post. While you are greeting these new thru hikers are you asking them if they are White Blaze members or at least if they visit the forum or other forums concerning hiking the AT. I would like to know how many have done research before the hike.

Good idea! I do typically ask how much preparation they've done, but honestly, one can infer a lot about that just by seeing their packs. ;)



For some reason such backpacking is not official like a completed thruhike and there's no recognition and no patch and yet they all have the time to do such trips. It must be the social aspect and town support and the shelter system which these backpackers find so attractive. It's definitely not about getting an unbroken amount of time out in the woods.


Backpackers who section hike are qualified to receive the same 2,000 mile patch that I received after completing my thru. :)

GreenBlaze
03-07-2016, 16:59
It's an offshoot of the pecking order: Thruhikers are at the top of the rung, section hikers far below, and mere weekend backpackers don't rate. Just my opinion.

Are you saying this is how you view the pecking order or how it's often perceived by others on the trail?

Dogwood
03-07-2016, 17:28
Enjoyed it Tipi, though, as you say, there are exceptions.

Listen, consider, design/define your own hike. Doesn't ultimately matter all what everyone anyone else says or does. This is one of the wonderful aspects about backpacking. You individually can be ultimately responsible for YOUR hike. What a concept.

Enjoy the journey, the certificate, the 30 days out without a town stop, stopping in town every third day, the 50+ lb haul, the 10- lb haul, big mileage days, short mileage days, no mileage days, etc.

I went NOBO out of Standing Bear at 7 a.m. in a non stop light drizzle in a gung ho gung ho let's do this thing let's maintain a 28 MPD avg fast and light thru-hiker mentality. LOL. At 8 p.m. I had gone less than 4 miles with more than 100 thru-hikers zooming by me like they were driving well above the speed limit on I 95 but I identified, described, and sketched every wildflower and plant I crossed in those miles. I loved it. Next day I did my first 38 mile day. It was also the day I was coined with my trail name Dogwood because many of those who passed me the day before who I had by then caught up with I had enjoyed conversations about discussing their AT plant life questions. Who freakin cares? HYOH. Do no harm. Leave the trail, the community, every town, every campsite, and every person perhaps a little better. ;)

Tipi Walter
03-07-2016, 17:39
Are you saying this is how you view the pecking order or how it's often perceived by others on the trail?

I believe this pecking order is how Thruhikers perceive it.

WingedMonkey
03-07-2016, 17:51
Mistake #1......Not taking hiking blogs with a grain of salt.

Tipi Walter
03-07-2016, 17:59
Nicely said, although carrying 30 days of food is nothing short of impossible without animals.

After careful study and experience I would have to say this is incorrect. With careful meal and menu planning, a normal healthy adult can carry 30 days worth of food in one load without resupply. My longest such trip was 24 days and I still had several days of food left. Tweak it a little and 30 days is doable.

You just have to wrap your head around being in the woods for a month and not touching folding money or sleeping in a bed or interacting with "civilian" non-hikers etc.


Well, the whole point of a thru hike is to go from Point A to Point B, not to base camp and wander around one area for a month. There is nothing wrong with base camping, but it's not thru hiking.

No one mentioned basecamping. I didn't mention basecamping. Basecamping is coming in with your load and setting up camp and sitting put for a month and not backpacking until the last day to exit the woods. I equate basecamping to car camping.

My recommendation was to pull a 30 day trip into a given area (let's say the Cohutta/Big Frog wilderness) and pull all the trails in that area and then use the Benton MacKaye trail to exit the area to link with the Citico/Slickrock wilderness and spend the rest of the trip doing all the trails there.

Move every day, backpack every day. Zero days only for terrible weather, severe cold, or deep snow.

You could call it a Thruhike if you wanted, or you could call it an Expedition trip. You could hike 5 miles a day or 15, or as far as you can go with your food load (around 55-60 lbs for 30 days). Personally I like to move every day as it keeps up the trip's momentum.

My quandary is this: AT thruhikers have this block of time already arranged, in fact they probably have 4 months arranged for the woods and their long hike. Why not then pull a 30 day wilderness trip as mentioned and really experience the forest and what's left of the "wilderness"?? It's a great opportunity to explore the mountains without interruption.

Puddlefish
03-07-2016, 18:19
After careful study and experience I would have to say this is incorrect. With careful meal and menu planning, a normal healthy adult can carry 30 days worth of food in one load without resupply. My longest such trip was 24 days and I still had several days of food left. Tweak it a little and 30 days is doable.

You just have to wrap your head around being in the woods for a month and not touching folding money or sleeping in a bed or interacting with "civilian" non-hikers etc.



No one mentioned basecamping. I didn't mention basecamping. Basecamping is coming in with your load and setting up camp and sitting put for a month and not backpacking until the last day to exit the woods. I equate basecamping to car camping.

My recommendation was to pull a 30 day trip into a given area (let's say the Cohutta/Big Frog wilderness) and pull all the trails in that area and then use the Benton MacKaye trail to exit the area to link with the Citico/Slickrock wilderness and spend the rest of the trip doing all the trails there.

Move every day, backpack every day. Zero days only for terrible weather, severe cold, or deep snow.

You could call it a Thruhike if you wanted, or you could call it an Expedition trip. You could hike 5 miles a day or 15, or as far as you can go with your food load (around 55-60 lbs for 30 days). Personally I like to move every day as it keeps up the trip's momentum.

My quandary is this: AT thruhikers have this block of time already arranged, in fact they probably have 4 months arranged for the woods and their long hike. Why not then pull a 30 day wilderness trip as mentioned and really experience the forest and what's left of the "wilderness"?? It's a great opportunity to explore the mountains without interruption.

Perhaps they go on mini expeditions as well? I don't think all thru hikers are only thru hikers. I hiked most every day this last spring summer and fall, but I live in a house in the woods, so I rarely camp. I don't have to worry about arranging shuttles, parking my car overnight, or really all that many logistics. I pick a mountain or trail, do my thing and sleep in a real bed at the end of the day. I don't feel poorer for watching the stars from my porch rather than from the trail.

My thru hike will just be a different way of seeing different places for me. Same amount of free time essentially. I have no idea how it will turn out, what side trails I'll explore, how far along the trail I'll get. When I'm bored or cold or injured I'll go home. Maybe I'll try your method next year now that I have more camping gear and see how I enjoy that.

I suspect you're making the same mistake you're accusing "thru hikers" of making. You're lumping them into a single category as if they all think and act in a single manner.

Snowleopard
03-07-2016, 19:01
but I identified, described, and sketched every wildflower and plant I crossed in those miles. I loved it.
This sounds like a great day. I hope you have many more like it. As I get older and less able to do fast high miles, I'll be forced to do this sort of thing. Fortunately I love it (photography, not sketching but same idea).

RockDoc
03-07-2016, 20:44
re the pecking order...

So a 60 year old section hiker with 50 years of hiking experience and tens of thousands of miles hiked all over the world is lower than a newby "thru hiker" with shiny boots? Give me a break.

Another Kevin
03-07-2016, 21:15
re the pecking order...

So a 60 year old section hiker with 50 years of hiking experience and tens of thousands of miles hiked all over the world is lower than a newby "thru hiker" with shiny boots? Give me a break.

That's the way some seem to think of it. Which is why I'm careful to place myself as a "clueless weekender." About fifty years of clueless weekending (with the occasional short section thrown in) ... maybe it adds up to something.

nsherry61
03-07-2016, 23:35
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by RockDochttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2048759#post2048759)re the pecking order...

"So a 60 year old section hiker with 50 years of hiking experience and tens of thousands of miles hiked all over the world is lower than a newby "thru hiker" with shiny boots? Give me a break."

I don't know. I used to think that people that hiked the PCT and/or the AT (we didn't call them thu-hikers back then) were a bunch of ninnies that somehow though hiking a popular trail for months on end was a wilderness experience. Is it really a wilderness experience if you are following a man-made trail? Are you really tough even if you don't climb high mountains that require technical gear? Since when is a town stop, a resupply? Resupplies are those things the airplanes drop for you every two or three weeks. Thru-hiking a long trail is to wilderness backpacking what McDonald's is to fine dining.

Then I grew up and realized how much I could learn from all kinds of people with all kinds of experience and all kinds of expectations of themselves. I realized that a lot of our most beautiful places are scared with trails that provide the easiest and most environmentally friendly access. Now, I kinda like the idea of checking out and hiking for any length of time, a day, a week, a month, a 1/2 a year, or more across some of our most beautiful wild areas. I'll still wonder off trails when trails don't go where I want. But, as a good citizen, trails enable me to see wild areas with minimal impact, and I like that.

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 00:29
re the pecking order...

So a 60 year old section hiker with 50 years of hiking experience and tens of thousands of miles hiked all over the world is lower than a newby "thru hiker" with shiny boots? Give me a break.

You see the correct position, obviously, but many newb thruhikers do not, ergo my mentioned ranking system. Get on the trail in June in Virginia and you'll find many of these thruhikers who started in Georgia and have now become "old hands" and will now take your questions etc. Set up your tent a hundred yards from a box shelter and dayhike over to it at dusk and dinner time. Study hiker behavior.

Newb Experts holding court are easy to spot. They will gladly receive questions from adoring onlookers, but never themselves ask these onlookers a single question. In my jaded opinion the more experienced a backpacker is, the more questions he will ask. Just the opposite of these newb experts.

evyck da fleet
03-08-2016, 01:05
Good post. I'd have to agree with most of what you've stated.

As far as mistakes go, since most thrus are newbies, it's all good as long as they learn from them. I could blast the people who spend thousands of dollars on guided hikes so they can stare at their feet while I bound past them doing 360s as they think I'm a goofball not realizing I'm taking in the views behind us as well. But if they enjoy their trip and if it makes them get in better shape for the next one so its not as difficult, that's great.

To address Tipi's point(s) what he does is about as opposite of a thru as can be done. I don't expect any newb to just go out and do a 30 day hike in the wilderness. And so I'd expect to disagree with most of what he says: plenty of blue/yellow blazing, still applying for the patch anyway, enjoying town stays because the AT is a social hike through the most populated part of the country and paying attention to miles cuz Baxter closes around 10/15(for a tradition thru). Some things I agree with(love of town stays - it shouldn't take any young or in shape person six months to hike the trail - and I've seen a few people full of their accomplishments though I usually didn't stick around to see if I caught them on a bad day or if they were always like that) but I'd stop far from saying the majority of thrus do it. It's kinda like bad behavior it doesn't take a majority for perception to change.

I usually enjoy his posts so I'm not trying to pick a fight.

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 01:13
Nothing to fight about in this discussion. It's just my opinion with a touch of the ridiculous. Opinion and Ridicule---the last American freedoms.

rocketsocks
03-08-2016, 02:16
Nicely said, although carrying 30 days of food is nothing short of impossible without animals. I fully admit that I would prefer to worry less about towns and resupplies...I go hike in the woods because I want to be in the woods, not in town. I do like meeting new people on the trail though.another option once used quite a bit is the cache method, hardly ever employed anymore.

Traveler
03-08-2016, 07:50
That's the way some seem to think of it. Which is why I'm careful to place myself as a "clueless weekender." About fifty years of clueless weekending (with the occasional short section thrown in) ... maybe it adds up to something.

I have seen you describe yourself this way for a while and wondered where that came from. Thanks for the explanation! I'm not much on activity related social politics so I tend to be oblivious to that level of thinking. It kind of reminds me of the fellow who, when asked what he attributed his success in wandering the backcountry to, replied, "to the fact I ain't died yet".

tflaris
03-08-2016, 08:48
I'm not smarter than you....
I've just screwed up more stuff than you have!


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GreenBlaze
03-08-2016, 10:13
I believe this pecking order is how Thruhikers perceive it.

I agree 100% with this, and while every thru-hiker doesn't share this mentality, I believe most do. I think it's a natural way to feel about it because let's face it.. the adversity and challenge required far exceed short section or weekend backpacking. Having said that, a little more mileage in life with rest stops under the tree of wisdom seems to incite a more thoughtful understanding of others. I remember the days when I was headstrong, had put in the hard work, and felt more "special" than others that were exploring the same paths. As the years wore on, the landscape changed, and I started to recognize that what I was doing as merely a drop in the ocean, I developed a more didactic approach to my way of thinking. This change has enriched me in more ways than I can count, and I wish I had realized it sooner.

"Every thru-hiker was once a section hiker, a day-tripper, a weekender, a shortimer.... and when their journey is over, every thru-hiker will rejoin these ranks, and become a section hiker once again."

GreenBlaze
03-08-2016, 10:15
nothing to fight about in this discussion. It's just my opinion with a touch of the ridiculous. Opinion and ridicule---the last american freedoms.

..... :d .....

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 11:17
I agree 100% with this, and while every thru-hiker doesn't share this mentality, I believe most do. I think it's a natural way to feel about it because let's face it.. the adversity and challenge required far exceed short section or weekend backpacking. Having said that, a little more mileage in life with rest stops under the tree of wisdom seems to incite a more thoughtful understanding of others. I remember the days when I was headstrong, had put in the hard work, and felt more "special" than others that were exploring the same paths. As the years wore on, the landscape changed, and I started to recognize that what I was doing as merely a drop in the ocean, I developed a more didactic approach to my way of thinking. This change has enriched me in more ways than I can count, and I wish I had realized it sooner.

"Every thru-hiker was once a section hiker, a day-tripper, a weekender, a shortimer.... and when their journey is over, every thru-hiker will rejoin these ranks, and become a section hiker once again."

I think you're my new best friend. Or at least I think I agree with your post. Why wouldn't I? Perception is a tricky thing; what I see and understand about trail behavior will be different than what someone else understands, or even sees. So maybe GreenBlaze and I perceive thruhiker mentality in somewhat the same way.

"A little more mileage in life with rest stops under the tree of wisdom seems to incite a more thoughtful understanding of others."

This neat quote applies well to backpackers as I like to sit under a literal tree and observe. And then somehow find a way to put in my a trip reports.

DuneElliot
03-08-2016, 11:18
After careful study and experience I would have to say this is incorrect. With careful meal and menu planning, a normal healthy adult can carry 30 days worth of food in one load without resupply. My longest such trip was 24 days and I still had several days of food left. Tweak it a little and 30 days is doable.



I'd really like to know how you did it. I just can't conceive of someone my size (petite female) being able to do that without pack animals or caches (as someone else suggested but which aren't always possible in some of the backcountry). Sure, my pack is as light as I can possibly make it because of my size, but even carrying 7 days of food this summer is going to be near my upper limit. There'd be no way for me to carry 60lbs of food plus all my other gear...that would be close to 2/3 of my body weight.

On the other note...I don't think any hiker is superior to any other. You can always learn something. I've been around horses all my life and trained them for years, and even someone new to horses can teach me something by asking a question, seeing something in a different way than I do etc. Those new and old to an activity can all teach something...if we're open to learning!!!

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 11:30
I'd really like to know how you did it. I just can't conceive of someone my size (petite female) being able to do that without pack animals or caches (as someone else suggested but which aren't always possible in some of the backcountry). Sure, my pack is as light as I can possibly make it because of my size, but even carrying 7 days of food this summer is going to be near my upper limit. There'd be no way for me to carry 60lbs of food plus all my other gear...that would be close to 2/3 of my body weight.

On the other note...I don't think any hiker is superior to any other. You can always learn something. I've been around horses all my life and trained them for years, and even someone new to horses can teach me something by asking a question, seeing something in a different way than I do etc. Those new and old to an activity can all teach something...if we're open to learning!!!

Good question. Allowances would have to be made for physical limitations and here is a solution:

Get two large BearVaults and load up with food at home before the fantasy "30 Day Trip." I know Class of 2016 AT Thruhikers won't be reading this so please skip over it.

Anyway, go to the area you want to explore and leave the bear vaults at the trailhead away from the car or drop-off point. Go into the "wilderness" and do loops on most all the trails and then on Day 15 backtrack to the vaults and pick up the next 15 days worth of food and continue the adventure or hike to your evac shuttle point.

With a good map and home study you could easily come up with a Cache plan and weave it into a 30 day trail itinerary. People used to do this all the time on the AT back in the 1970s. They would spend a week or two driving up the AT and placing caches before their thruhike. Imagine going 2 months on the AT and picking up food caches and not going into a town for 60 days. Paradise.

nsherry61
03-08-2016, 11:44
I'd really like to know how you did it . . . There'd be no way for me to carry 60lbs of food plus all my other gear...that would be close to 2/3 of my body weight. . .
Tipi suggested 30, not 60 days. As a petite female, with appropriately calorie dense food, you would probably need to carry 30-35 lbs of food. So, for summer, a 15 lb base weight plus 30 lbs of food is 45 lbs, not too bad. As a young and silly 165 lb boy/man in my late teens and early 20's I frequently carried packs up to 95 lbs with climbing gear and food (I occasionally resewed ripping backpack seams in camp). It really wasn't all that bad, although it would kill me now many times over. The beauty of food weight is that it disappears more every day, and by the end of the trip you can't believe how light your pack is.

I haven't gone on extended backpack trips in a while. I now weigh 215 lbs (50 lbs more than my "race weight"), so carrying a 45 lb pack now would be the same as a 95 lb pack back then, and I'm not nearly as strong! Now, I would plan for about 1.5 lbs of food per day knowing that I would loose a little weight on the trip, and that's okay. As a petit female, you might well be able to get by with just 1 lb of food per day.

I say, go do it! And have fun.

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 12:01
Tipi suggested 30, not 60 days. As a petite female, with appropriately calorie dense food, you would probably need to carry 30-35 lbs of food. So, for summer, a 15 lb base weight plus 30 lbs of food is 45 lbs, not too bad. As a young and silly 165 lb boy/man in my late teens and early 20's I frequently carried packs up to 95 lbs with climbing gear and food (I occasionally resewed ripping backpack seams in camp). It really wasn't all that bad, although it would kill me now many times over. The beauty of food weight is that it disappears more every day, and by the end of the trip you can't believe how light your pack is.

I haven't gone on extended backpack trips in a while. I now weigh 215 lbs (50 lbs more than my "race weight"), so carrying a 45 lb pack now would be the same as a 95 lb pack back then, and I'm not nearly as strong! Now, I would plan for about 1.5 lbs of food per day knowing that I would loose a little weight on the trip, and that's okay. As a petit female, you might well be able to get by with just 1 lb of food per day.

I say, go do it! And have fun.

I think DuneElliot assumed 2 lbs of food per day, which is my usual calculation. So for a typical 20 day trip I am carrying 40 lbs of food along with the necessary 44 oz of white gas fuel for my stove (or a little less in the summer).

A one-lb-a-day food load is interesting although most experienced backpackers like Ray Jardine and Andrew Skurka recommend the 2+lb number. Interesting discussion though revolving around "calorie-dense foods" and all else. And maybe a "petite female" CAN get by with 1 lb a day. Unclear. Probably not as metabolism would kick in hard with more calories desired. And a wide variety and amount to please the palate.

I like to eat and my menu is varied: Fresh red apples, plastic jars of honey and peanut butter and almond butter and cashew butter, loaves of Ezekiel bread, bags of roasted nuts, dried tempeh and brown rice, YOU NAME IT.

This is right on---
"The beauty of food weight is that it disappears more every day, and by the end of the trip you can't believe how light your pack is."

I routinely start a typical 18-21 day trip with a butt heavy pack in the 85 lb range (with full winter kit). If I go 4 miles the first day I'm happy with myself. Been known to do 7 with such weight. I call my demon pack the Gun Safe or the Red Strap-On or the Nylon Hippo or the Refrigerator but as you say by Day 12 or so of the trip the thing is MUCH lighter.

DuneElliot
03-08-2016, 12:04
Good suggestions all round. It's not something I'll be planning any time soon...too many other things in the works...but the theoretical solutions are good. And I do agree that caches are necessary for something like that.


Tipi suggested 30, not 60 days. As a petite female, with appropriately calorie dense food, you would probably need to carry 30-35 lbs of food. So, for summer, a 15 lb base weight plus 30 lbs of food is 45 lbs, not too bad.



I was going with his suggestion of 55-60lbs of food for 30 days. Yes, for me I could probably get away with less, and I'd be prepared to lose weight (not that I can afford to lose much). I know some women have carried much more than 45lbs but I know it's out of my capabilities. I have horses for a reason!!!

Mtsman
03-08-2016, 12:39
... I know Class of 2016 AT Thruhikers won't be reading this so please skip over it.

I used to enjoy your posts until I realized, just now, that you are the one "holding court" and preaching your way as the only way.

BTW I am an attempting class of 2016 AT Thruhiker and I read it all. I came away with more bigotry than great ideas but it must be because I'm not doing it your way. [emoji22]

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Secondmouse
03-08-2016, 13:09
Indeed. I'd rather be out there making mistakes than inside on an Internet forum talking about those making the mistakes.

and yet, here you are...

AlyontheAT2016
03-08-2016, 13:19
...I know Class of 2016 AT Thruhikers won't be reading this so please skip over it...


I'm not sure where you got that idea, but I hope to be a member of that particular group of people. I read through both pages of this thread because it's insightful information. I would also like to try and carry more food than the average thruhiker simply to avoid too many lengthy town stops where money disappears, because I am on a budget. But now you're coming across holier-than-thou and honestly a little bitter as well. Why on earth wouldn't future thruhikers be reading this?

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 13:23
I'm not sure where you got that idea, but I hope to be a member of that particular group of people. I read through both pages of this thread because it's insightful information. I would also like to try and carry more food than the average thruhiker simply to avoid too many lengthy town stops where money disappears, because I am on a budget. But now you're coming across holier-than-thou and honestly a little bitter as well. Why on earth wouldn't future thruhikers be reading this?

This is the Class of 2016 thruhiker forum and our side discussion on long trips without resupply is a thread drift and doesn't apply to them, hence my comment.

AT thruhikers do not need to carry large food loads as resupply is frequently available, and this thread pertains mostly to the Class of 2016 thruhikers.

I brought up the "30 Day Backpacking Trip w/o Resupply" as an alternative to a thruhike and wondered why AT thruhikers couldn't swap out a month on the trail for a month somewhere else with no resupply? Sounds like a plausible alternative since these hikers have already made the time commitment beforehand.

My scenario goes like this: Hiker X has reserved 4 months for his/her thruhike. Why not pull one month in a "wilderness area" without resupply instead and go from there? My only desire is to see backpackers get more uninterrupted forest time and less town visits (which I admit is a thread drift on a Class of 2016 thread).

Mtsman
03-08-2016, 13:35
This is the Class of 2016 thruhiker forum and our side discussion on long trips without resupply is a thread drift and doesn't apply to them, hence my comment.
It's not just that comment in this thread that has me a little heated. I understand you are allowed your point of view and I respect that, but to trash every style but your own puts you as the court holder.. hell, you even spewed all over the hiking viking thread as well saying something close to the idea of ' I can't believe he went to town after getting wet and cold'

Meh, HYOH. I guess I just need a deeper understanding or there is a lesson here I just don't understand yet.

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AlyontheAT2016
03-08-2016, 13:50
It's not just that comment in this thread that has me a little heated. I understand you are allowed your point of view and I respect that, but to trash every style but your own puts you as the court holder.. hell, you even spewed all over the hiking viking thread as well saying something close to the idea of ' I can't believe he went to town after getting wet and cold'

Meh, HYOH. I guess I just need a deeper understanding or there is a lesson here I just don't understand yet.

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+1000


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Another Kevin
03-08-2016, 13:52
With a good map and home study you could easily come up with a Cache plan and weave it into a 30 day trail itinerary. People used to do this all the time on the AT back in the 1970s. They would spend a week or two driving up the AT and placing caches before their thruhike. Imagine going 2 months on the AT and picking up food caches and not going into a town for 60 days. Paradise.

Paradise for you, perhaps. Most of us aren't you. I, for one, really hate the though of a 15-day food carry. I just don't like a pack that heavy.

Also, there are fewer and fewer places where caching food is lawful. For some of us, that's a consideration as well.

I'm sure you enjoy your approach. It doesn't particularly appeal to me. (For that matter, neither does thru-hiking. HYOH.)

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 14:15
Paradise for you, perhaps. Most of us aren't you. I, for one, really hate the though of a 15-day food carry. I just don't like a pack that heavy.

Also, there are fewer and fewer places where caching food is lawful. For some of us, that's a consideration as well.

I'm sure you enjoy your approach. It doesn't particularly appeal to me. (For that matter, neither does thru-hiking. HYOH.)

But a 15 day food carry keeps you out in the woods longer.

I would like to know if food caches are illegal between Springer and Fontana?? Any info on this? They used to be common on the AT.

Mt Ranier has a 93 mile route where food caches are encouraged with the proper permits.

HikingDude mentions the food cache alternative---
http://www.hikingdude.com/hiking-food-supply.php


AT backpacker Old Goat mentions setting up food caches in the 100 mile wilderness---

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=434137

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 14:24
hell, you even spewed all over the hiking viking thread as well saying something close to the idea of ' I can't believe he went to town after getting wet and cold'


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I don't consider writing a short review of the Hiking Viking's blog posts to be "spewing" unless by spewing you mean expressing an opinion you disagree with. I only reviewed the short section of his blog already posted, from December 2015 to January 16 and his Mahoosuc Notch encounter. He seemed to have stopped trail blogging after January 16.

And if you think my short review here on Whiteblaze is spewing, you should read my latest Trail Journal account.

twistwrist
03-08-2016, 15:38
Hike your own way. Focus on what you can learn from an article or discussion. Discard what's meaningless to you.
Peace y'all. It's really all good.

Mtsman
03-08-2016, 15:39
I don't consider writing a short review of the Hiking Viking's blog posts to be "spewing" unless by spewing you mean expressing an opinion you disagree with. I only reviewed the short section of his blog already posted, from December 2015 to January 16 and his Mahoosuc Notch encounter. He seemed to have stopped trail blogging after January 16.

And if you think my short review here on Whiteblaze is spewing, you should read my latest Trail Journal account.
Tipi, that was one example off of a very, very long list and even YOU admitted in the same post the it was so critical you may have to amend it..........

Like I said in the begging, I have no problem with others opinions and I often learn from them. I am a strong believer in HYOH I just wish others were as well, but I guess that would mean they couldn't HYOH...

Where I have an issue is when that point of view is so strong it becomes bigoted and the generalization (or developed schema) becomes so strong that you don't see a problem with lumping every thru hiker into a mass group and a mass method of hike.

I admire your style just as I do Kevins or maltos or muddys or elfs etc I guess I feel as if you are missing out on the beauty that different methods of hiking bring to the table.

I didn't mean this to be pick on Tipi day. The mindset you presented was very strong without apology or possibly even understanding. I felt like it needed defending and I feel I've said my part to do so.

HYOH YMMV

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Another Kevin
03-08-2016, 17:07
But a 15 day food carry keeps you out in the woods longer.

Ah. I think this is where we differ. You want to stay in the woods as long as possible. I like being Out There, but after 4-5 days Out There, I'm more than ready to spend a day being able to use 21st-century conveniences like charging my devices (I know, you don't like such things either. HYOH), touching base with my wife, getting a hot shower, having a poo in a warm room, and getting all my stuff clean and dry.

Once all that happens, I'd be more than ready to get Out There again, but by then I've usually run out of time and it's time to get back to my other priorities. Which is fine, they're important to me too.

Different styles. Mine is better for me.

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 17:18
Tipi, that was one example off of a very, very long list and even YOU admitted in the same post the it was so critical you may have to amend it..........

Like I said in the begging, I have no problem with others opinions and I often learn from them. I am a strong believer in HYOH I just wish others were as well, but I guess that would mean they couldn't HYOH...

Where I have an issue is when that point of view is so strong it becomes bigoted and the generalization (or developed schema) becomes so strong that you don't see a problem with lumping every thru hiker into a mass group and a mass method of hike.

I admire your style just as I do Kevins or maltos or muddys or elfs etc I guess I feel as if you are missing out on the beauty that different methods of hiking bring to the table.

I didn't mean this to be pick on Tipi day. The mindset you presented was very strong without apology or possibly even understanding. I felt like it needed defending and I feel I've said my part to do so.

HYOH YMMV

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Good post. I agree on Hiking Your Own Hike and also agree on having opinions on the hikes of others. And the opinions of others on My hike. It works both ways. I have heard countless times about carrying too much weight or injuring myself or going Stupid Heavy (vs stupid light) and even not adhering to the current fascination with UL and SUL gear. But HYOH should not curtail active discussions and opinions and even criticisms. Because when the day is done, and after all the talk, it always returns to HYOH. In the meantime we sort thru what procedures work for us while comparing them to the hikes of others.


When I presented my take on the Thruhiker phenom, I wrote and carefully added "some" thruhikers exhibit such behavior. Lumping every thruhiker into a mass group? Nope. That might qualify as being bigoted.

rickb
03-08-2016, 17:41
Used to be carrying 7 to 10 days of food between resupply was considered a reasonable plan on the AT.

Now that would considered to be foolhardy-- stupid, in fact.

Interesting how perceptions change over time, and how the hiking community as a whole adopts its collective norms with so few outliers.

Odd Man Out
03-08-2016, 18:31
Used to be carrying 7 to 10 days of food between resupply was considered a reasonable plan on the AT.

Now that would considered to be foolhardy-- stupid, in fact.

Interesting how perceptions change over time, and how the hiking community as a whole adopts its collective norms with so few outliers.

You are also considered foolhardy and stupid to hike without a mobile phone. Not only do we adopt collective norms, we don't tolerate the outliers. However we need the outliers (such as Tipi) so we can all make informed decisions. The article in the OP listed 10 "mistakes" that newbies tend to make. But they are mistakes only if people are doing these things while unaware that there are other options that may work better for them. One could also argue that those who conform to the collective norms without considering the outliers may also be making mistakes. When I get a chance to take a long-distance hike, I would be interested in trying out a long stretch without resupply, just to see if I like it. There's no way of knowing without trying. But I'd probably become comfortable with carrying more conventional 5 day food load before I try it.

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 18:58
Used to be carrying 7 to 10 days of food between resupply was considered a reasonable plan on the AT.

Now that would considered to be foolhardy-- stupid, in fact.

Interesting how perceptions change over time, and how the hiking community as a whole adopts its collective norms with so few outliers.

Everyone should read this two-volume set called Hiking The Appalachian Trail---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/JournalSubjects/Tipi-Walter/i-3wF9PLL/0/L/Hiking%20Book%20003-L.jpg

In Volume 2, a 17 year old kid named Eric Ryback thruhiked the AT in 1969. Here are two interesting quotes:

"Later, when I was arranging my equipment and food, people came up and questioned me about my trip. This was the first real indication I had that I was doing something unusual; they were amazed that I was able to maintain myself in the mountains for over 2 1/2 weeks with just what was in my pack, plus water from mountain streams." ERIC RYBACK

"Looking at that (resupply) food was one of my greatest pleasures on the whole trip. It was the last package I would pick up before I finished my trek. I wondered how I would make all of the food fit into the pack. It was for 20 days, the largest supply I had picked up. With the experience of 1,600 miles behind me, the heavier the pack, the more secure I felt. I knew I could go into the woods and stay for as long as the food lasted before coming back to civilization again." ERIC RYBACK

lonehiker
03-08-2016, 19:05
If I remember correctly, his pack only had a strap for a hip belt (as most/all packs did), or at most minimum padding, so all the weight was carried on his shoulders. They were tougher back then...

Dogwood
03-08-2016, 19:14
Everyone should read this two-volume set called Hiking The Appalachian Trail---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/JournalSubjects/Tipi-Walter/i-3wF9PLL/0/L/Hiking%20Book%20003-L.jpg

In Volume 2, a 17 year old kid named Eric Ryback thruhiked the AT in 1969. Here are two interesting quotes:

"Later, when I was arranging my equipment and food, people came up and questioned me about my trip. This was the first real indication I had that I was doing something unusual; they were amazed that I was able to maintain myself in the mountains for over 2 1/2 weeks with just what was in my pack, plus water from mountain streams." ERIC RYBACK

"Looking at that (resupply) food was one of my greatest pleasures on the whole trip. It was the last package I would pick up before I finished my trek. I wondered how I would make all of the food fit into the pack. It was for 20 days, the largest supply I had picked up. With the experience of 1,600 miles behind me, the heavier the pack, the more secure I felt. I knew I could go into the woods and stay for as long as the food lasted before coming back to civilization again." ERIC RYBACK


I asked the grounded Eric Ryback at the PCT Kick Off about his resupplying. First, he was wise enough to realize and mention when he thru-hiked times were different ie: different gear, trails were different(fewer signs and blazes, less/overgrown/absent segments of continuous tread for example), fewer known details like resupply points, more was unknown, etc. I had the sense he experienced much more of an adventure with many more unknowns than today's groups of TCers that have it much easier. Plus, he was barely a kid setting off on those 1000's of miles hikes. He mostly slept under a tarp set up in simple lean to configuration with two sticks or trees as lean to poles. He said IF he thru-hiked again he would likely utilize the massive amount of resupply beta to resupply more often than he did back when he was a TCer.

Harrison Bergeron
03-08-2016, 20:29
Tipi, you've given us a great list of mistakes for people who set out to live in the woods for a month or more.


While I enjoy my local hikes back home in the complete solitude of the woods, the AT is a whole other thing. It's not so much about living in the woods. It's about enjoying the company of strangers. It's about selecting, building, using, and comparing equipment -- and the satisfaction of seeing what worked and learning what to do different next time. People watching. Hanging out with kids half your age. Facing a different set of obstacles every day and a whole different weather environment every week. Partying in town with new friends. Savoring a perfectly cooked Rib-eye after surviving on oatmeal, noodles, and peanuts for week. Experiencing the inexplicable kindness of strangers who aren't even hikers. Solving the world's problems around a campfire. Worrying about bears and occasionally even seeing them. Seeing and hearing birds and other wildlife that don't exist back home. Marveling at the amazing accommodations that someone hiked deep into the woods with an enormous load on their back just to build for you for free.


I think the biggest mistake people make preparing for the AT is to start with the assumption that it's about living in the woods.

colorado_rob
03-08-2016, 21:02
Tipi, you've given us a great list of mistakes for people who set out to live in the woods for a month or more.


While I enjoy my local hikes back home in the complete solitude of the woods, the AT is a whole other thing. It's not so much about living in the woods. It's about enjoying the company of strangers. It's about selecting, building, using, and comparing equipment -- and the satisfaction of seeing what worked and learning what to do different next time. People watching. Hanging out with kids half your age. Facing a different set of obstacles every day and a whole different weather environment every week. Partying in town with new friends. Savoring a perfectly cooked Rib-eye after surviving on oatmeal, noodles, and peanuts for week. Experiencing the inexplicable kindness of strangers who aren't even hikers. Solving the world's problems around a campfire. Worrying about bears and occasionally even seeing them. Seeing and hearing birds and other wildlife that don't exist back home. Marveling at the amazing accommodations that someone hiked deep into the woods with an enormous load on their back just to build for you for free.


I think the biggest mistake people make preparing for the AT is to start with the assumption that it's about living in the woods.Hear HEAR!!!!! (PS: this is an AT thru hiker forum)

RockDoc
03-08-2016, 22:11
I think that you should add "packing on the stupid side of light".

It's easy to knock people carrying more than 50 lbs, but it is perhaps even more dangerous to go out into the world without sufficient gear to survive injury or unexpected bad weather.

Mtsman
03-08-2016, 22:11
Tipi, you've given us a great list of mistakes for people who set out to live in the woods for a month or more.


While I enjoy my local hikes back home in the complete solitude of the woods, the AT is a whole other thing. It's not so much about living in the woods. It's about enjoying the company of strangers. It's about selecting, building, using, and comparing equipment -- and the satisfaction of seeing what worked and learning what to do different next time. People watching. Hanging out with kids half your age. Facing a different set of obstacles every day and a whole different weather environment every week. Partying in town with new friends. Savoring a perfectly cooked Rib-eye after surviving on oatmeal, noodles, and peanuts for week. Experiencing the inexplicable kindness of strangers who aren't even hikers. Solving the world's problems around a campfire. Worrying about bears and occasionally even seeing them. Seeing and hearing birds and other wildlife that don't exist back home. Marveling at the amazing accommodations that someone hiked deep into the woods with an enormous load on their back just to build for you for free.


I think the biggest mistake people make preparing for the AT is to start with the assumption that it's about living in the woods.
Wow, THIS is well put. Nice work HB.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Tipi Walter
03-08-2016, 22:57
I asked the grounded Eric Ryback at the PCT Kick Off about his resupplying. First, he was wise enough to realize and mention when he thru-hiked times were different ie: different gear, trails were different(fewer signs and blazes, less/overgrown/absent segments of continuous tread for example), fewer known details like resupply points, more was unknown, etc. I had the sense he experienced much more of an adventure with many more unknowns than today's groups of TCers that have it much easier. Plus, he was barely a kid setting off on those 1000's of miles hikes. He mostly slept under a tarp set up in simple lean to configuration with two sticks or trees as lean to poles. He said IF he thru-hiked again he would likely utilize the massive amount of resupply beta to resupply more often than he did back when he was a TCer.

Cool that you got to meet him, Dogwood. Ryback was a 17 year old kid thruhiking the AT back in 1969. Pretty neat considering his age and the time.




I think the biggest mistake people make preparing for the AT is to start with the assumption that it's about living in the woods.

Good post Harrison. Your example refers to a certain group of AT backpackers who have chosen to hike the AT in the ways you describe. Some love the shelters, some won't camp anywhere near them. Some love the partying and 420 vibe, others aren't parked at the shelters to see them. Some carry minimal food, others don't. Some section hike or use the AT only as a link to another system of trails (like in Mt Rogers where the AT will connect you to the Lewis Fork wilderness area and the Little Wilson Creek wilderness and the Pine Mt trail etc).

And believe it or not, but some backpackers get a full blown wilderness experience on the Appalachian Trail---they are living in the woods. Just go south from Fontana over Cheoah Mt and beyond for 2 weeks in January. Bring your microspikes. You'll be living in the woods.

GreenBlaze
03-09-2016, 01:08
I think you're my new best friend. Or at least I think I agree with your post. Why wouldn't I? Perception is a tricky thing; what I see and understand about trail behavior will be different than what someone else understands, or even sees. So maybe GreenBlaze and I perceive thruhiker mentality in somewhat the same way.

"A little more mileage in life with rest stops under the tree of wisdom seems to incite a more thoughtful understanding of others."

This neat quote applies well to backpackers as I like to sit under a literal tree and observe. And then somehow find a way to put in my a trip reports.

I think we're like-minded in that respect. I certainly agree that getting off at every town, hiking just to make it to the next hostel, and not truly embracing the outdoors is abhorrent and missing the point. I also believe in HYOH, so I'd never accost someone directly or indirectly about their method of outdoor enjoyment. I myself prefer to stay in the woods and immerse myself in the environment as much as possible when I have the time to be out. I'm usually trying to learn and practice bushcraft skills when possible, and you can't do that in town.

I remember meeting a guy near camp once that was literally covered in Cuben fiber. I figured his underwear was probably made of Dyneema. Once he broke the ice with.. "Why are you carrying that big knife?" and (pointing at my attempt of a feather stick) "What's that thing?" We had a great conversation, and I gleaned some UL tips from him. I think he might have left with a few ideas about how to start a fire without his Bic too. :) For the record.. he was in his older 30s. It might have been more difficult to build a quick rapport with a younger "thru-hiker" who has all the answers.

GreenBlaze
03-09-2016, 01:13
Everyone should read this two-volume set called Hiking The Appalachian Trail---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/JournalSubjects/Tipi-Walter/i-3wF9PLL/0/L/Hiking%20Book%20003-L.jpg



Thanks for these. I've been raiding old issues of Backpacker HERE (https://books.google.com/books?id=CuQDAAAAMBAJ) to find reading material from a different generation of hiker/backpackers. Will definitely procure a copy of these if possible for my collection.

Cain
03-09-2016, 10:53
Great write up! My fiancée and I will be starting from the approach trail on March 26th, Can not wait!

DuneElliot
03-09-2016, 11:10
Being somewhat new to backpacking (but not the backcountry or hiking and camping in general) it was articles, and the ensuing discussion, like these that helped me to learn of the benefits of going lighter and not making the initial mistakes myself. I invested in gear that I would use and that would last, not just for backpacking, but in my other pursuits as well (horse packing).

It is these kinds of threads that others, new to the joys of hiking short or long distances, and the wilderness areas, find valuable and insightful. I think you get to a point in life, with maturity, that enables you to more easily take advice and learn from other's mistakes rather than be stubborn and make your own.

Jack Tarlin
03-09-2016, 13:47
It should be remembered that most hikers go thru two to two and a half pounds of food per day.

It should further be remembered that in addition to trying to go too fast too early in the journey, the single biggest thing that knocks people off the Trail early on is carrying too much stuff and refusing to do anything about their excessive pack weight.

A fifteen day food bag, for most people, would weigh thirty pounds and probably more. For most folks, this would be something neither comfortable or advisable.

Miel
03-09-2016, 14:03
Everyone should read this two-volume set called Hiking The Appalachian Trail---

https://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/JournalSubjects/Tipi-Walter/i-3wF9PLL/0/L/Hiking%20Book%20003-L.jpg

In Volume 2, a 17 year old kid named Eric Ryback thruhiked the AT in 1969. Here are two interesting quotes:

"Later, when I was arranging my equipment and food, people came up and questioned me about my trip. This was the first real indication I had that I was doing something unusual; they were amazed that I was able to maintain myself in the mountains for over 2 1/2 weeks with just what was in my pack, plus water from mountain streams." ERIC RYBACK

"Looking at that (resupply) food was one of my greatest pleasures on the whole trip. It was the last package I would pick up before I finished my trek. I wondered how I would make all of the food fit into the pack. It was for 20 days, the largest supply I had picked up. With the experience of 1,600 miles behind me, the heavier the pack, the more secure I felt. I knew I could go into the woods and stay for as long as the food lasted before coming back to civilization again." ERIC RYBACK


Thanks for posting those. I just ordered them after reading your post.

Tipi Walter
03-09-2016, 14:07
Thanks for posting those. I just ordered them after reading your post.

Are they still available??

dzierzak
03-09-2016, 14:19
Are they still available??

You can still find both volumes on ebay and amazon. Some outrageous prices out there. There's one for $289.00.

GreenBlaze
03-09-2016, 14:26
Are they still available??

Once I saw your post I grabbed the 2 volume set on Amazon in "Like New" condition for $26.89 + $3.00 shipping.

Tipi Walter
03-09-2016, 14:26
I found mine about 10 years ago in a now-defunct used book store in Madisonville, TN, of all places. Both volumes in excellent shape for $44.

Right now I'm home-copying the Dorothy Laker chapter to read on my next backpacking trip. She thruhiked the AT 3 times in the 1960s and 1970s.

Mags
03-09-2016, 14:45
You can still find both volumes on ebay and amazon. Some outrageous prices out there. There's one for $289.00.

Classics for sure. But I paid $30 for mine ten years ago. Are they worth 10 times as much ten years later? Dunno...

Tipi Walter
03-09-2016, 16:18
Classics for sure. But I paid $30 for mine ten years ago. Are they worth 10 times as much ten years later? Dunno...

Hardbacks with pretty covers. Perfect condition would probably fetch some coinage.

Cheyou
03-09-2016, 16:27
Hardbacks with pretty covers. Perfect condition would probably fetch some coinage.



Wow I don't know ! About the same price as a Cubanfiber tarp ! :0)

soilman
03-09-2016, 16:36
Hardbacks with pretty covers. Perfect condition would probably fetch some coinage.
In reality the covers are plain white. The dust jackets are illustrated. I have a first edition, third printing that I purchased probably around 1980 that I started rereading this winter. Unfortunately the one dust jacket is long gone and the other is falling apart.

Another Kevin
03-09-2016, 18:07
It should be remembered that most hikers go thru two to two and a half pounds of food per day.

It should further be remembered that in addition to trying to go too fast too early in the journey, the single biggest thing that knocks people off the Trail early on is carrying too much stuff and refusing to do anything about their excessive pack weight.

A fifteen day food bag, for most people, would weigh thirty pounds and probably more. For most folks, this would be something neither comfortable or advisable.

You're a many-times thru-hiker, and I'm a clueless weekender, and on this we agree! Thanks for injecting a word of sanity.

I like to think that I'd carry only a little too much and go only a little too fast, but maybe I flatter myself. I might someday discover that the challenges of a thru-hike are of an entirely different order than I've seen in half a century or so of weekend backpacks and the occasional hiking vacation. I'm unlikely ever to learn.

rickb
03-09-2016, 18:43
The bulk of 15 days worth of food would also be an issue-- but I think this is an example of getting the right answer to the wrong question.

Rather than ponder whether or not 15 days of food makes sence on the AT, better to ask when 6 days worth of food might play better than 4. Even if a resupply is available at day 4.

Or if a seven plus day haul might suit you best-- rather than breaking it up into two "weekends" length hikes.

And so forth.

dzierzak
03-10-2016, 12:39
Classics for sure. But I paid $30 for mine ten years ago. Are they worth 10 times as much ten years later? Dunno...

Not likely worth that much. IIRC that offering has been up for several years. You can certainly find it for less most of the time. Just wait a bit and it'll come around again - cheaper...

Tipi Walter
03-10-2016, 13:19
It should be remembered that most hikers go thru two to two and a half pounds of food per day.

It should further be remembered that in addition to trying to go too fast too early in the journey, the single biggest thing that knocks people off the Trail early on is carrying too much stuff and refusing to do anything about their excessive pack weight.

A fifteen day food bag, for most people, would weigh thirty pounds and probably more. For most folks, this would be something neither comfortable or advisable.

I agree with you that most thruhikers would never finish their AT hike if they had to lug too much weight whether it's gear weight or food weight. The unique feature of the AT allows backpackers constant resupply opportunities with town visits and money exchanges---or post office pickups. And isn't the main point of a thruhiker to finish and get to Maine?

Despite the usual hikers, there are a handful like Eric Ryback who go out with large food loads and say---"I knew I could go into the woods and stay for as long as the food lasted before coming back to civilization again." And he finished the hike.


The bulk of 15 days worth of food would also be an issue-- but I think this is an example of getting the right answer to the wrong question.

Rather than ponder whether or not 15 days of food makes sence on the AT, better to ask when 6 days worth of food might play better than 4. Even if a resupply is available at day 4.

Or if a seven plus day haul might suit you best-- rather than breaking it up into two "weekends" length hikes.

And so forth.

You bring up the point of the possible modern trend of too-frequent resupplies---carrying minimal food and therefore minimal weight with 4 day resupplies. It may have something to do with either the quest for the lightest pack at all costs, or the need to stay hooked into towns and society more and the woods less.

Malto
03-10-2016, 13:48
I agree with you that most thruhikers would never finish their AT hike if they had to lug too much weight whether it's gear weight or food weight. The unique feature of the AT allows backpackers constant resupply opportunities with town visits and money exchanges---or post office pickups. And isn't the main point of a thruhiker to finish and get to Maine?

Despite the usual hikers, there are a handful like Eric Ryback who go out with large food loads and say---"I knew I could go into the woods and stay for as long as the food lasted before coming back to civilization again." And he finished the hike.



You bring up the point of the possible modern trend of too-frequent resupplies---carrying minimal food and therefore minimal weight with 4 day resupplies. It may have something to do with either the quest for the lightest pack at all costs, or the need to stay hooked into towns and society more and the woods less.

Tipi, while I love to read about your off the grid freezer box expeditions, you are completely inconsistent with your post about theuhiking. Yes, I agree with the first bolded statement. Regardless of what people say, a thru hikers objective is to finish the hike. Everything else is rationalization. So, with that as an objective, your value statement is inconsistent with that goal. Too frequent resupplies? Too frequent for who? Obviously not for most who thru hike which is what this entire thread is directed toward. the only way you could say that a "thru hiker" had too frequent resupplies or town stops is if it impact their ability to reach their objective. that does happen, people spend too much time or money and it impacts their stated goal of completing the trail.

i m sure there are people saying, it's the journey not the destination so whether you finish doesn't matter, great, then don't call yourself a thruhiker when you are in GA.

DuneElliot
03-10-2016, 14:08
i m sure there are people saying, it's the journey not the destination so whether you finish doesn't matter, great, then don't call yourself a thruhiker when you are in GA.

I think a thru-hike is about the journey AND the destination...it's not one or the other. You can't be called a thru-hiker without going all the way from GA to MA (or vice versa), but if it was only about the destination and not the journey then why not just drive it!

Anyway, just my 2c worth

Tipi Walter
03-10-2016, 14:15
So, with that as an objective, your value statement is inconsistent with that goal. Too frequent resupplies? Too frequent for who? Obviously not for most who thru hike which is what this entire thread is directed toward. the only way you could say that a "thru hiker" had too frequent resupplies or town stops is if it impact their ability to reach their objective. that does happen, people spend too much time or money and it impacts their stated goal of completing the trail.


I wrote in regards to Rickb's comment about carrying 4 days of food versus 6 days of food. He wrote---

Rather than ponder whether or not 15 days of food makes sence on the AT, better to ask when 6 days worth of food might play better than 4. Even if a resupply is available at day 4.

Or if a seven plus day haul might suit you best-- rather than breaking it up into two "weekends" length hikes.

You'd have to ask Rickb how 6 days worth of food instead of 4 "might play better."

Plus, as you say, too many town trips could impede the hike and end the goal.

Or too frequent town trips could drain finances.

Most thruhikers who start don't finish---which may or may not be relevant to resupply cycles or amount of food carried. And it would interesting to see of those who are successful what was their average food load and/or pack weight. How often did they resupply? Four days? Six days? Ten days?

Beyond all this, I believe there is more of a trend nowadays for thruhikers to carry less food weight overall.

Nick Gatel is a regular contributor to the forums at BackpackingLight.com and there was a discussion on Ultralight Ideas and trends and he wrote this neato blurb---

"What I think has really changed is most people are unwilling to backpack for 10-14 days without a resupply. They don't mind leaving the wilderness to go into trail towns and get food."

He's not talking about the AT but about the general mindset of UL backpackers. I think this mindset bleeds into AT backpackers too. See the BPL thread here---

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/99143/

Mike04345
03-10-2016, 17:43
Thank You for all the help and information you put forth for the hiking community.

GreenBlaze
03-11-2016, 16:08
You bring up the point of the possible modern trend of too-frequent resupplies---carrying minimal food and therefore minimal weight with 4 day resupplies. It may have something to do with either the quest for the lightest pack at all costs, or the need to stay hooked into towns and society more and the woods less.

This is the reason I go into every excursion with an "enjoyment of the outdoors" mentality rather than a destination mentality. The great thing about the AT is that it's easy to change up your game just about anywhere outside the 100-mile wilderness. Adapt as you go.. and quit worrying about what everyone else is doing. Sit down by a fire at home and think of what YOU want to do.. then DO IT.

rafe
03-11-2016, 18:17
[re: Tipi's list of "mistakes"]


mistake or maybe they have different goals than you?

Bingo.

Tipi Walter
03-11-2016, 18:21
[re: Tipi's list of "mistakes"]

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/miscgreen/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Malto http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost-right.png (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2048585#post2048585)
mistake or maybe they have different goals than you?
"Bingo."



I still consider "holding court" by thruhikers at shelters to be not so much a goal as a mistake. Then again, maybe it is a goal.

rafe
03-11-2016, 18:30
another option once used quite a bit is the cache method, hardly ever employed anymore.

I recall reading about this method in a few of the old journals (from that venerable two-volume set mentioned in this thread.) But I doubt it was used by more than a few hikers, and I could see all sorts of logistical problems if lots of people tried using it. For one thing, it means pre-visiting each cache location and then remembering each location, exactly, months later. Kind of crazy for the AT. But might be useful or even necessary on a less-frequented, more remote trail like the Cohos Trail.

rafe
03-11-2016, 18:38
I still consider "holding court" by thruhikers at shelters to be not so much a goal as a mistake. Then again, maybe it is a goal.


Not sure how that's relevant to the thread, Tipi. I know where you're coming from and I understand your antipathy toward the very notion of thru-hiking. I agree with the advice that Clarity offers in her article, and am convinced that traveling light is a huge plus if one's goal is to walk the length of the AT in typical fashion (ie., end-to-end, in four to six months or so.)

The "holding court at shelters" part is neither here nor there. It happens a lot in the first few days or weeks, but by the time hikers make it to VA, they have better things to talk about.

rainydaykid
03-12-2016, 07:34
One goal of mine for getting my packweight lighter has always been to carry more food. When I start my 2016 thru. I'll have 8lbs of food for a total packweight of just under 20lbs, with half a liter of water. Personally, I've found that the lighter my pack is, the better I enjoy hiking. I carried massive gear weights when I was deployed overseas, 90lbs of armor, weapons, medical gear, ect, and I paid for it. Not that that much weight was a choice, all the gear was needed. I don't need to carry that much for backpacking, and I would hate it like hell if I had to.

On my 2010 thru, my pack maxed out at 28lbs with food, ect, aside from carrying 18lbs thru the smokies, which I ate all of it in 6 days, but I started March 5th, and had snow all the way until the end of the smokies.

Once I have my trail legs again, I'll start stretching my food supply out, I'd like to eventually be able to carry 16lbs of food, and still have a lightweight pack. Though I will see how it goes, and may just stick with 10lbs or so. I don't mind towns, but I'd rather be out hiking, and resupply at towns near the trail. I mostly did a lot of nearos for resupply on my last thru, and plan on sticking with that this time as well.

I hike fast because I walk fast, not to be in a rush. I still take plenty of breaks and enjoying the view. I hike all day because I love hiking, not to do miles.

I'll be carrying a lot of water on my PCT thru next year as well, so another reason to go lighter. I've found from personal experience that hiking with a pack heavier than about 35lbs total really sucks. I don't even want it over 25lbs total, honestly. Everyone is different, though.

But I know what it's like to walk around with 90lbs all the time, and it truly sucks. That was a massive motivator for me when I first started hiking, before I even knew about ultralight or anything else. I don't "preach" to people about ultralight, and only say something if they look like they are struggling with a monster pack, and not enjoying themselves. Some people truly don't know any better and think backpacking is supposed to have 50 lbs on your back. I did a short hike when I fist started backpacking, and my pack was 40lbs or so. It sucked bad. I felt like crap, was wore out from it, had to take too many breaks, and barely made any miles. It wasn't fun at all.

I'll be starting late this year, have some stuff from college I have to finish up, and student loan things, and a few other random items. I plan on starting on April 15th or so.

MuddyWaters
03-12-2016, 08:02
Nick Gatel is a regular contributor to the forums at BackpackingLight.com and there was a discussion on Ultralight Ideas and trends and he wrote this neato blurb---

"What I think has really changed is most people are unwilling to backpack for 10-14 days without a resupply. They don't mind leaving the wilderness to go into trail towns and get food."

He's not talking about the AT but about the general mindset of UL backpackers. I think this mindset bleeds into AT backpackers too. See the BPL thread here---

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/99143/

The salient point. Is that many lightweight hikers are covering the same distance in half the time, with half the food, than heavier hikers historically did.

That said, the subset of really UL hikers is actually very small. I read a survey by John Ladd of 700 jmt hikers a couple years ago...I think there was only a couple lighter than me when I did it, and I wasnt particularly light by my own frame of reference.

I amazed at people that couldnt complete 110 mile stretch without resupply by packer , and cited lack of food as problem as well.

On AT, Ive seen very, very few UL hikers as well. Mant people are carrying too much crap, and only have room for a couple days food.

rafe
03-12-2016, 09:36
Let's recall that the OP's article was intended for newbie thru-hikers just starting out at Springer or Amicalola. Even if one were to hike the approach trail, it's only 40 miles to Neels from there. Anyone hoping to make it to Maine should be able to walk that distance in four days. No need at all to carry a lot of food in that section.

There's no doubt in my mind that cell phones and support infrastructure (hostels and willing shuttlers) have changed the nature of an AT thru hike so that it really is nothing more than a series of three and four day section hikes.

Time was when you had to carry a week's worth of food to get from Monson to Abol Bridge, but even that is old-hat, and for the same reason.

twistwrist
03-12-2016, 19:36
Great write up! My fiancée and I will be starting from the approach trail on March 26th, Can not wait!

Awesome!
I'll be at the visitors center to register you! :)
~Clarity

kenl
03-13-2016, 18:47
All great comments.

The amount of information available here and on other forums is incredible. At the end of the day, some people will heed the advice offered (the ability to learn from others) and some will not. For those that do not, you hope they have a shake down hike to learn the mistakes themselves :-)

In reality, thru hikes have been completed by those who have been very well prepared with top of the line equipment and also by those who (it seems like) wandered onto the trail (gee, I wonder where this goes). I believe this speaks to being comfortable with the prep work you've done and your mental attitude and philosophical approach to the hike.

Safe travels to all

Wooobie
03-13-2016, 18:56
You can plan and prep, you can hop on and hope for the best. There is no right or wrong way to thru hike. in regards to the AT, you have plenty of time to get rid of gear/buy gear while on the trail. You have plenty of miles to get you in shape. at the end of the day, you are either going to make it to the end, or you arent. no amount of prep and plan is going to change that.

#1 mistake of beginner mistake - Thinking there is a way you have to thruhike.

capehiker
03-13-2016, 20:48
I promise I'm not trying to troll, but has Tipi thru hiked the AT?

twistwrist
03-14-2016, 17:18
Sure! Or you can carry too much and quit within a few days because of injury or exhaustion. It's happening myriad times a day. You have plenty of time to rid of/buy gear but to start with 50 pounds or more, you may not even receive that time you need to figure it out. Just food for thought.
There's not a way you have to thru-hike, as the article clearly mentions in the header. But there ARE ways you can simplify it from the start to increase your chances of making it.

gbolt
03-14-2016, 19:06
Whether Tipi has our hasn't hiked the AT doesn't lessen his knowledge of backpacking. Especially in the winter. I think some people are at greater risk doing overnight hikes, without trail legs, and packs that are not trimmed down for the AT. I have never hiked the AT but I have put in many miles and day's on a trail; to trim my pack weight and gear list down to what I would take if I won the lottery and left for the AT tomorrow. This is a great site for AT hikers and hiking but it is also wonderful for those dreaming of doing a Thru Hike one day. I have learned a lot from Tipi and everyone else's participation. I have learned a lot from this thread and the video that helped start it.

rafe
03-14-2016, 19:35
Whether Tipi has our hasn't hiked the AT doesn't lessen his knowledge of backpacking.

I wouldn't argue with that at all. But the thread isn't about backpacking in general, it's about thru hiking, specifically.

GreenBlaze
03-14-2016, 20:14
Everyone should read this two-volume set called Hiking The Appalachian Trail

My books arrived today in great shape. I learned something I never knew about the AT in the first page. Thanks for turning me on to these!


The route of the Appalachian Trail, save the northern end, parallels the greatest of all Indian trails, the Great Indian Warpath, which extended from Creek territory in Alabama north into Pennsylvania.

http://i.imgur.com/miJWTO7.jpg?3

rafe
03-14-2016, 20:20
My books arrived today in great shape. I learned something I never knew about the AT in the first page. Thanks for turning me on to these!



http://i.imgur.com/miJWTO7.jpg?3

Ancient but worth the read. Read them both many years ago back in the pre-Internet dark ages. Back then I had to check them out of the library (multiple times.) Years later I acquired my own copy.

gbolt
03-14-2016, 22:26
I wouldn't argue with that at all. But the thread isn't about backpacking in general, it's about thru hiking, specifically.

Good point... I can't argue with that. :) (Not that I ever mean to argue. I just like the discussion).

twistwrist
03-15-2016, 21:59
Completely agree, rafe. That's definitely the audience to whom I was catering the article.

Smoky Spoon
03-15-2016, 22:45
Thru hikes are certainly destination oriented, I agree with you on that one but for myself the journey is equally important. But I am an odd one, I have always preferred the woods and solitude much more than towns or even ending my hikes....if I could, I would hike a hike that never ended.





and an AT thru-hike is about the destination not the journey

Smoky Spoon
03-15-2016, 22:46
Enjoyed the article, thank you for taking the time and effort to post it.




Hey y'all! The best way to live is to live as a lifelong learner. So read up to learn some easy ways to ensure you're (and the other thrus this year!) setting yourself up for success from the beginning! I'm stationed at Amicalola working with hikers before and as they set off on their journey. Hope to meet some of you all this season! ~Clarity

Top 10 Mishaps of Beginning Thru-Hikers (http://appalachiantrailclarity.com/2016/03/06/top-10-mistakes-new-thru-hikers-make/)

rafe
03-15-2016, 23:13
Thru hikes are certainly destination oriented, I agree with you on that one but for myself the journey is equally important. But I am an odd one, I have always preferred the woods and solitude much more than towns or even ending my hikes....if I could, I would hike a hike that never ended.

How can you be so sure of that?

Smoky Spoon
03-15-2016, 23:52
Be sure of what?




How can you be so sure of that?

rafe
03-16-2016, 00:05
Specifically, "... if I could, I would hike a hike that never ended."

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 00:14
Honestly, I do not know. But I find myself at a crossroads in my life. I might be able to just take this hike and write. And then take another one and hike. Repeat....again and again. And I at first thought, what? That is crazy, but now, lately, I am finding myself giving it serious consideration. So in my mind, if I keep hiking, going from one trail to the next and so on, then could that be considered a hike that never ends?

rafe
03-16-2016, 00:43
Honestly, I do not know. But I find myself at a crossroads in my life. I might be able to just take this hike and write. And then take another one and hike. Repeat....again and again. And I at first thought, what? That is crazy, but now, lately, I am finding myself giving it serious consideration. So in my mind, if I keep hiking, going from one trail to the next and so on, then could that be considered a hike that never ends?

Have you considered that you might be getting a little ahead of yourself?