'Save the Doyle': One couple's campaign to rescue an historic Appalachian Trail hotel

[WhiteBlaze]

<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="7" style="vertical-align:top;"><tr><td width="80" align="center" valign="top"><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNFnNDXQ-WEwvDbHNlJqBwv63Ikz1A&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779060451517&ei=5JzgVoDuBcaN8gG-hIHQAg&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/save_the_doyle_one_couples_cam.html"><img src="//t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVjif0XyL1kd5fKUk5PcW1NgTcLH-ZQMLFJUNk8KddC-eHI77GSAhBZRZvjJRIipELNMibtR0" alt="" border="1" width="80" height="80"><br><font size="-2">PennLive.com</font></a></font></td><td valign="top" class="j"><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class="lh"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNFnNDXQ-WEwvDbHNlJqBwv63Ikz1A&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779060451517&ei=5JzgVoDuBcaN8gG-hIHQAg&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/save_the_doyle_one_couples_cam.html"><b>&#39;Save the Doyle&#39;: One couple&#39;s campaign to rescue an historic <b>Appalachian Trail</b> hotel</b></a><br><font size="-1"><b><font color="#6f6f6f">PennLive.com</font></b></font><br><font size="-1">Thousands of weary travelers coming off the <b>Appalachian</b> Trial have relied on the Doyle Hotel in Duncannon for a good night&#39;s rest and a shower. But now, it&#39;s the hotel that needs some relief. Owners Pat and Vickey Kelly owe about $9,000 in back taxes <b>...</b></font><br><font size="-1"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNEHo4aLJgQAQZvC0bBcuSfZ-5SHOA&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779060451517&ei=5JzgVoDuBcaN8gG-hIHQAg&url=http://fox43.com/2016/03/09/historic-doyle-hotel-in-danger-of-closing/">Historic Doyle Hotel in danger of closing | WPMT FOX43</a><font size="-1" color="#6f6f6f"><nobr>FOX43.com</nobr></font></font><br><font size="-1" class="p"></font><br><font class="p" size="-1"><a class="p" href="http://news.google.com/news/more?ncl=dQDGI5ooBmzLZZMAH2j1_UltwrhBM&authuser=0&ned=us"><nobr><b>all 2 news articles&nbsp;&raquo;</b></nobr></a></font></div></font></td></tr></table>

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[GreenBlaze]

“With no hikers on the trail during the winter season, the timing of the tax deadlines and mortgage deadlines just hits at the wrong time of year,” said Pat Kelly."

Sorry.. this is absurd. They have been in business long enough (after the first year lol) to know didn't know they needed to save $$$ to make sure they can cover the tax payments like every other business in the country.

[Slo-go'en]

Made a dupe post, sorry.

[Slo-go'en]

Sorry.. this is absurd. They have been in business long enough (after the first year lol) to know didn't know they needed to save $$$ to make sure they can cover the tax payments like every other business in the country.

But if you don't make quite enough in the busy season to offset the slow season, it's a loosing battle. 1200 hikers at $25 a night is only $30,000, not much gross to run a building like that on.

I hope they manage to stay open one more season so I can visit one last time, but the long suffering Doyle may finally pass into history.

[Adriana]

The Go Fund Me page is confusing. The funding goal in the upper right hand corner azppears to be $10,000 but the text mentios that the building needs $80,000 of plumbing work.

To help keep this trail haven active, the Doyle needs your help for capital plumbing improvements in the amount of $80K.

[tdoczi]

The Go Fund Me page is confusing. The funding goal in the upper right hand corner azppears to be $10,000 but the text mentios that the building needs $80,000 of plumbing work.


if youve been to the doyle youd realize that makes absolute perfect sense.

[admirald7s]

The original GFM was $80K for plumbing upgrades. However, after the GFM was started, the Kelly's were apparently notified that they had mortgage and taxes to pay or they would lose the Doyle. At that point, it appears the GFM was reduced to $10K to focus purely on the mortgages/taxes due under the assumption that new plumbing is pointless if you lose the building.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Studlintsean]

I've been to the Doyle twice and thought the Kelly's were awesome people. Very friendly and welcoming. That said, did they really think that was a good investment and business plan? From reading here and other places, it sounds like the Doyle has been on a downward spiral for a long time (before they purchased it). I do agree that it will have an impact on the community and the Kelly's and feel bad for that but when will the next gofundme be setup once the back taxes and this round of mortgages are paid? Sometimes you gotta cut your losses.

[rocketsocks]

The original GFM was $80K for plumbing upgrades. However, after the GFM was started, the Kelly's were apparently notified that they had mortgage and taxes to pay or they would lose the Doyle. At that point, it appears the GFM was reduced to $10K to focus purely on the mortgages/taxes due under the assumption that new plumbing is pointless if you lose the building.


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[rocketsocks]

Let's try that again.
34016

[Uncle Joe]

Be it mismanagement or misfortune it doesn't negate that the loss of the landmark is imminent. Maybe they'll learn from this. Either way, I think I can give up a latte or two to help!

[GreenBlaze]

"Geoff and Molly walked two blocks to the Doyle Hotel (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g52526-d839664-Reviews-Doyle_Hotel-Duncannon_Pennsylvania.html), the crumbling fossil of a once grand inn. In 1990 as now, its bar served wonderful burgers and cheap draft beer, but even at $11 a night, the 23 peeling, spider-infested rooms upstairs were only so much of a bargain. They shared just three baths."

[Puddlefish]

None of the following is specific to the Doyle.

I've seen far too many people get into business without, or with an entirely unrealistic business plan. Severely under-capitalized to begin with, never able to catch up. They can be great people, who are talented at the actual trade but just have no sense of the economics involved. Often the nicest people are the worst business owners.

Many seasonal businesses try to pay their employees year round, even when they have no work for them, which doesn't really help the employee in the long term. They don't know how to set pricing, and don't realize when they're losing money on certain services or items. If you're going to have a loss leader, to get people in the door, you have to overcharge on some other vital service, otherwise customers will just take advantage of that loss leading service/item and go their merry way. Many owners just stick their heads in the sand, and hope, rather than taking steps to solve the problems.

Crowdfunding is a new wrinkle. It can help if, and only if the business has a plan to wisely invest that money, and just generally make better economic choices in the future.

[peakbagger]

I actually think when I went through years ago , the place was between owners as I remember there was a sign on the door to go check at nearby realtor and they would check us in.

There are frequently folks who post on whiteblaze wanting to open a hostel, some of us try to point out reality but reality always gets in the way of a dream. It would be interesting to hear from any hostel owner in compliance with the law who can claim to actually break even on hiker hostel. The businesses in my area of NH look at hiker traffic as additional income to some other business or far more often its hobby they fund from their savings. The majority of the locations are just one accident from closing down as few actually have insurance that would cover an accident on their premises.

[Jack Tarlin]

Hey guys, another quick thought, as I've already written on this matter on Facebook and elsewhere: This is not about how unhappy you were with your room, lack of amenities, whatever. The Doyle is not the hotel Australia and has never tried to be. Instead, it's a very special place, run by really great folks. If you were lucky enough to meet them, and had a good time there, and wanna help them out in their time of need, well I think that's GREAT. If you don't, well swell, but this is not the time or place to rip on the place. Pat and Vickey over the years have performed kindnesses for hikers THAT CANNOT BE COUNTED, so unless you have something nice to say about the place, or the extraordinary people who move sun and moon to keep it open.....well, this is not your thread.

[SkeeterPee]

What a great place to stop in for a beer or a lunch. Stopped in a couple times when my wife and I were hiking in the area. Very nice lunches. Give if you can to keep a great business open. Just consider it a late tip if you need to.

I hope they stay open as I will plan to spend some money and a night there this spring or summer on my next section hike duncannon to port Clinton.

[Hoofit]

Hey guys, another quick thought, as I've already written on this matter on Facebook and elsewhere: This is not about how unhappy you were with your room, lack of amenities, whatever. The Doyle is not the hotel Australia and has never tried to be. Instead, it's a very special place, run by really great folks. If you were lucky enough to meet them, and had a good time there, and wanna help them out in their time of need, well I think that's GREAT. If you don't, well swell, but this is not the time or place to rip on the place. Pat and Vickey over the years have performed kindnesses for hikers THAT CANNOT BE COUNTED, so unless you have something nice to say about the place, or the extraordinary people who move sun and moon to keep it open.....well, this is not your thread.

Too true..only stopped in there once but Pat and Vickey were upfront and welcoming, particularly after I had showered off the day's hike! Sad to see good people going downhill financially, sounds like they could do with a wealthy silent partner. As it happens, you were there that evening Jack with Box of Tricks who kindly turned me on to a pair of crocs, which I still have today almost four years later!
Considering the overall cost of a thru hike, a small donation to such a wonderful landmark and its owners doesn't seem such a big deal. Hope it works out for them.

[Hoofit]

Hey guys, another quick thought, as I've already written on this matter on Facebook and elsewhere: This is not about how unhappy you were with your room, lack of amenities, whatever. The Doyle is not the hotel Australia and has never tried to be. Instead, it's a very special place, run by really great folks. If you were lucky enough to meet them, and had a good time there, and wanna help them out in their time of need, well I think that's GREAT. If you don't, well swell, but this is not the time or place to rip on the place. Pat and Vickey over the years have performed kindnesses for hikers THAT CANNOT BE COUNTED, so unless you have something nice to say about the place, or the extraordinary people who move sun and moon to keep it open.....well, this is not your thread.

Too true..only stopped in there once but Pat and Vickey were upfront and welcoming, particularly after I had showered off the day's hike! Sad to see good people going downhill financially, sounds like they could do with a wealthy silent partner. As it happens, you were there that evening Jack with Box of Tricks who kindly turned me on to a pair of crocs, which I still have today almost four years later!
Considering the overall cost of a thru hike, a small donation to such a wonderful landmark and its owners doesn't seem such a big deal. Hope it works out for them.

[Hoofit]

Sorry folks, it posted twice!

[turtle fast]

Not that it would help now, but I wonder if presenting the idea of a TIF project to the taxing authority for improvements considering the historical, social, and economic considerations involved here.

[Bronk]

I've never understood why a business owner would ask for charity to keep a business open. The whole purpose of running a business is to turn a profit. If you can't make it pay, close the doors.

[Rain Man]

Very well said, Jack. I've stayed at the Doyle and have been there another time. Quite a place. So much more memorable a stay than any I've had at one more bland chain motel after another. I hope the Doyle stays around for another century!


Hey guys, another quick thought, as I've already written on this matter on Facebook and elsewhere: This is not about how unhappy you were with your room, lack of amenities, whatever. The Doyle is not the hotel Australia and has never tried to be. Instead, it's a very special place, run by really great folks. If you were lucky enough to meet them, and had a good time there, and wanna help them out in their time of need, well I think that's GREAT. If you don't, well swell, but this is not the time or place to rip on the place. Pat and Vickey over the years have performed kindnesses for hikers THAT CANNOT BE COUNTED, so unless you have something nice to say about the place, or the extraordinary people who move sun and moon to keep it open.....well, this is not your thread.

[Puddlefish]

I've never understood why a business owner would ask for charity to keep a business open. The whole purpose of running a business is to turn a profit. If you can't make it pay, close the doors.

Various reasons that I've come across:

- Flat out don't like being told what to do by management, they can't keep a regular job as an employee, because they're convinced they're smarter than everyone else.
- Amazing tradesmen, but don't have any financial abilities.
- Underground backwoods Libertarian. Let's barter and beg!
- They've capitalized by by convincing all their relatives to take 2nd mortgages. Desperate not to lose Grandma's house!
- They've purchased a bad franchise.
- Fishermen incapable of not buying the entire bar a round, and of budgeting between trips.
- Depressed owners who can't get out of their own way.
- Hucksters who go from bankruptcy to bankruptcy skimming off what assets they can, and screwing everyone else.

There are a whole lot of business people working insane hours at $3 an hour.

[WhiteBlaze]

<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="7" style="vertical-align:top;"><tr><td width="80" align="center" valign="top"><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNF-sjyhMgIXuk-h0lMtFX8c0pN8cA&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061039869&ei=4e3iVpiqGYOp8gGvs6Ew&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/campaign_to_save_appalachian_t.html"><img src="//t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVjif0XyL1kd5fKUk5PcW1NgTcLH-ZQMLFJUNk8KddC-eHI77GSAhBZRZvjJRIipELNMibtR0" alt="" border="1" width="80" height="80"><br><font size="-2">PennLive.com</font></a></font></td><td valign="top" class="j"><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class="lh"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNF-sjyhMgIXuk-h0lMtFX8c0pN8cA&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061039869&ei=4e3iVpiqGYOp8gGvs6Ew&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/campaign_to_save_appalachian_t.html"><b>Money pouring in to save historic <b>Appalachian Trail</b> hotel</b></a><br><font size="-1"><b><font color="#6f6f6f">PennLive.com</font></b></font><br><font size="-1">The hotel, located just a block from the <b>Appalachian trail</b>, is known as a haven for thousands of weary travelers hiking all or part of the 2,200-mile trail. Owners Pat and Vickey Kelly charge $25 for a room and an extra $10 for people who want to crash <b>...</b></font><br><font size="-1"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNEWQSt_SgBPs0beEou1riVsnKcD1A&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061039869&ei=4e3iVpiqGYOp8gGvs6Ew&url=http://cumberlink.com/news/local/communities/perry_county/appalachian-trail-landmark-in-duncannon-in-danger-of-closing/article_6501c8ea-7a92-59f0-8709-5223aa3c01db.html">Appalachian Trail landmark in Duncannon in danger of closing <b>...</b></a><font size="-1" color="#6f6f6f"><nobr>The Sentinel</nobr></font></font><br><font size="-1"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNHM8YP0VXwTS_8BH2wqn0ZA6OU26Q&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061039869&ei=4e3iVpiqGYOp8gGvs6Ew&url=http://fox43.com/2016/03/10/historic-duncannon-hotel-seeks-donations-to-stay-open/">Historic Duncannon hotel seeks donations to stay open | WPMT <b>...</b></a><font size="-1" color="#6f6f6f"><nobr>FOX43.com</nobr></font></font><br><font size="-1" class="p"></font><br><font class="p" size="-1"><a class="p" href="http://news.google.com/news/more?ncl=d3zRFpQn08V9iuME0GDeYLNoVCzJM&authuser=0&ned=us"><nobr><b>all 3 news articles&nbsp;&raquo;</b></nobr></a></font></div></font></td></tr></table>

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[TexasBob]

I've never understood why a business owner would ask for charity to keep a business open. The whole purpose of running a business is to turn a profit. If you can't make it pay, close the doors.

Possibly because everything they have is invested in the business and if it closes they are out of a job, their life's savings and will be in debt for years to come. Having owned a business those are some reasons that come to mind.

[Starchild]

I've never understood why a business owner would ask for charity to keep a business open. The whole purpose of running a business is to turn a profit. If you can't make it pay, close the doors.
Bold mine. You are making a unfounded assumption here, then jumping to a incorrect conclusion based on that.
You can check out this link for the top 10 reasons why people run a business: http://www.inc.com/guides/201101/top-10-reasons-to-run-your-own-business.html
and another such link:
http://www.ehow.com/info_7805152_purpose-starting-business.html
and another link:
http://www.accountsresource.co.uk/blog/businesstips/what-is-your-purpose-for-running-your-business/

There are many purposes why people run a business, many other purposes besides making money* of running a business including control and adventure and service.

*Technically 'profit' does not even make the list, but 'making money' is close enough.

[WhiteBlaze]

<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="7" style="vertical-align:top;"><tr><td width="80" align="center" valign="top"><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNGqEwOS5KxVbxFYvZPNzojZxxMK1g&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061459745&ei=PvfiVuXlJ8KIwAGsz47ADA&url=http://abc27.com/2016/03/11/fund-to-save-appalachian-trail-landmark-closing-in-on-goal/"><img src="//t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRskEfy4cDzuHL6jaXsd-O8RjeGIKifgCz2jAR9DV8ezJ5dTlXCNBiC0viKKUNQpQnfAAex M4k" alt="" border="1" width="80" height="80"><br><font size="-2">abc27</font></a></font></td><td valign="top" class="j"><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class="lh"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNGqEwOS5KxVbxFYvZPNzojZxxMK1g&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061459745&ei=PvfiVuXlJ8KIwAGsz47ADA&url=http://abc27.com/2016/03/11/fund-to-save-appalachian-trail-landmark-closing-in-on-goal/"><b>Fund to save Appalachian Trail landmark closing in on goal</b></a><br><font size="-1"><b><font color="#6f6f6f">abc27</font></b></font><br><font size="-1">DUNCANNON, Pa. (WHTM) – A fund to save the historic Doyle Hotel, a destination for hundreds of Appalachian Trail hikers each year, had reached more than&nbsp;...</font><br><font size="-1"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNF-sjyhMgIXuk-h0lMtFX8c0pN8cA&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061459745&ei=PvfiVuXlJ8KIwAGsz47ADA&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/campaign_to_save_appalachian_t.html">Money pouring in to save historic Appalachian Trail hotel | PennLive <b>...</b></a><font size="-1" color="#6f6f6f"><nobr>PennLive.com</nobr></font></font><br><font size="-1" class="p"></font><br><font class="p" size="-1"><a class="p" href="http://news.google.com/news/more?ncl=dlB2IiWv4hkbxqM3zRFpQn08V9iuM&authuser=0&ned=us"><nobr><b>all 2 news articles&nbsp;&raquo;</b></nobr></a></font></div></font></td></tr></table>

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[Lyle]

Just made a small contribution. They are getting close to getting the Taxman and Mortgage holder off their back in the short term, but still no where near enough to do the much needed renovations. I think, if I personally knew, and had influence with Pat and Vickey, I would attempt to convince them that it was time to cut the losses. Get the finances paid up, then sell out. But perhaps they are too far underwater on loans to make that feasible, in which case, I don't have any suggestions.

I do not ever see the Doyle becoming a self-supporting endeavor with out a MAJOR influx of capital, much more than the current owners can manage. And if someone did invest that money, it would never be to provide hikers with affordable lodging. Facts are facts.

Absolutely the best wishes to Pat and Vickey, hope they can find a way through this without loosing everything.

[Miel]

Just made a small contribution. They are getting close to getting the Taxman and Mortgage holder off their back in the short term, but still no where near enough to do the much needed renovations. I think, if I personally knew, and had influence with Pat and Vickey, I would attempt to convince them that it was time to cut the losses. Get the finances paid up, then sell out. But perhaps they are too far underwater on loans to make that feasible, in which case, I don't have any suggestions.

I do not ever see the Doyle becoming a self-supporting endeavor with out a MAJOR influx of capital, much more than the current owners can manage. And if someone did invest that money, it would never be to provide hikers with affordable lodging. Facts are facts.

Absolutely the best wishes to Pat and Vickey, hope they can find a way through this without loosing everything.

Could the Doyle become like the Coolidge, in Vermont? Rooms for higher-paying folks, and rooms for youth hostel members?

[Lyle]

Could the Doyle become like the Coolidge, in Vermont? Rooms for higher-paying folks, and rooms for youth hostel members?

Suppose it could, with the right investor. Not sure how many "higher paying" folks would be looking for a place to stay in Duncannon - I think that's the biggest part of the problem, not exactly a tourist meca.

[Bronk]

Bold mine. You are making a unfounded assumption here, then jumping to a incorrect conclusion based on that.
You can check out this link for the top 10 reasons why people run a business: http://www.inc.com/guides/201101/top-10-reasons-to-run-your-own-business.html
and another such link:
http://www.ehow.com/info_7805152_purpose-starting-business.html
and another link:
http://www.accountsresource.co.uk/blog/businesstips/what-is-your-purpose-for-running-your-business/

There are many purposes why people run a business, many other purposes besides making money* of running a business including control and adventure and service.

*Technically 'profit' does not even make the list, but 'making money' is close enough.Yes, but if a business doesn't make a profit, it fails at those other goals. Asking someone else to finance your lifestyle because you can't run your business at a profit is no different than asking for donations to finance a thruhike...you are asking people to finance your dream or your vacation.

[Slo-go'en]

If they are still open in early May when I pass by there I will give them a bit more then $25 for the room. If everyone paid an extra 10 bucks that would help them out a lot.

But realistically, the place is doomed in the long run. It really needs to be gutted and rebuilt. No amount of renovations will help at this point. Elmer's in Hot Springs is another building in desperate need of major repairs which will never happen.

[Lone Wolf]

so will this be a yearly thing?

[TD55]

Just checked out the GoFundMe page. Post from 5 hours ago says they reached the goal with $620 to spare. Check it out and make sure just in case my computer is lying to me or I am misreading something.

[Lyle]

so will this be a yearly thing?

My thoughts exactly, Lone Wolf. That's why I said I would encourage them to pay what they owe in taxes, then try to unload it. I don't really see how it can be self-supporting. Needed repairs and renovations will not get cheaper or more affordable in the next few years, and everyone can agree, it is in DIRE need of a lot of repairs. It is truly a fire trap as it is, a disaster waiting to happen. Will probably be in the hikers best interest to not have the lure.

I do hope the owners can find a reasonable way out.

[mweinstone]

My name is not important.
Why i am here is not important.
the facts are,
I have a name.....
And i am here.
In the beginning,
My jesus gave me pat and miss vickey.
and the spirit of matty moved over the face of duncannon.
and matty's god said," let there be a room to seperate the trash from the right.
And he set matthewski in a garden in a place called twenty three.
And he saw that is was good for matty to have companions, so he gave to him curty and tater.
now there was a devil in the land in those days who was the man.
and matty's jesus said," give unto cesar what is his and enjoy a doyle burger.

[rocketsocks]

My name is not important.
Why i am here is not important.
the facts are,
I have a name.....
And i am here.
In the beginning,
My jesus gave me pat and miss vickey.
and the spirit of matty moved over the face of duncannon.
and matty's god said," let there be a room to seperate the trash from the right.
And he set matthewski in a garden in a place called twenty three.
And he saw that is was good for matty to have companions, so he gave to him curty and tater.
now there was a devil in the land in those days who was the man.
and matty's jesus said," give unto cesar what is his and enjoy a doyle burger.
its only taxes...let my people go!

[mweinstone]

There not.
There just potatoes.
But,.....
Then the magic happens.
Old man pat rolls up a sleave exsposing the bicept of a much younger pat.
Then, he takes a huge freash bitchin tater and rings that suckers neck thru a hand cranked murder machine.
Next, he dumps the evidence into a lake of firey peanut oil laced with the souls of other potatoes murdered.
Finally he cajun seasons or cheeses those bastard and yells," order up!".

[mweinstone]

This incarnation of man will be remembered for letting people starve in a plentitude of abundence.
this generation of hikers will be remembered for the bad hiker poetry contest at the doyle

[rocketsocks]

I don't know which I like best, bad poetry, or bad poets.

[Hoofit]

My thoughts exactly, Lone Wolf. That's why I said I would encourage them to pay what they owe in taxes, then try to unload it. I don't really see how it can be self-supporting. Needed repairs and renovations will not get cheaper or more affordable in the next few years, and everyone can agree, it is in DIRE need of a lot of repairs. It is truly a fire trap as it is, a disaster waiting to happen. Will probably be in the hikers best interest to not have the lure.

I do hope the owners can find a reasonable way out.

Fire trap?
Disaster waiting to happen?
In the hikers best interest to not have the lure?

I don't believe doom and gloom is what is needed right now
But hey , thanks for your profound wisdom on the matter.....

[ekeverette]

I agree with Baltimore Jack..... I have always wanted to see the place and did on my hike last year...... great food, nice folks. It,s just a must see thing you must see on your hike!

[Slo-go'en]

Fire trap?
I don't believe doom and gloom is what is needed right now
But hey , thanks for your profound wisdom on the matter.....

Have you ever been to the Doyle? The place is a tinder box. Staying there is a bit scary, but best not to think about it.

[Hoofit]

Have you ever been to the Doyle? The place is a tinder box. Staying there is a bit scary, but best not to think about it.

Yep, stayed there a few years ago..
Lots of exposed plumbing and holy drywall!True enough, a little spooky upstairs in the half light!
Sure, it needs a lot of work but if there is half a chance to save it, then judging by the response, there's plenty of good folks out there to possibly make that happen.
Positive brain storming, such as the suggested ideas of two levels of accomadation to bring in more money or some form of grant funds for historic building repairs,deserve consideration.
They do have a limited amount of year round local clientele....... just trying to be positive here until all alternatives are ruled out.
The food's good, as is the beer and the Kelly's are great folk,not just judging by my limited stay but by all the kind words said about them.
Did I mention them burgers?!

[SkeeterPee]

They do have a limited amount of year round local clientele.......

Perhaps we should plan a couple weekends to fill up the hotel with Whiteblazers from surrounding states and do day hikes or an over nighter. Ie. in spring or fall when they are not busy enough.

[Tennessee Y'sGuy]

Have the Kelly's thought about organizing volunteers( both locally and regionally) to do some renovation, painting, plumbing, etc. Surely with the AT's vast network of volunteers we could come in the off season and give the place some sprucing up.

[chknfngrs]

PATC should buy it

[Lyle]

Fire trap?
Disaster waiting to happen?
In the hikers best interest to not have the lure?

I don't believe doom and gloom is what is needed right now
But hey , thanks for your profound wisdom on the matter.....

ABSOLUTELY stand by what I said.

Very old building, with very dry wood construction.
Open, central staircase that would act as a chimney and central flu to spread a fire throughout the building in a matter of minutes.
Dubious second story fire escape that was partially closed off due to unsafe structure when I was there last.
Add to that the exposed, very old and inadequate electrical service consisting of extension cords hung on the walls to power the one bare bulb dangling from the ceiling.

Yes it is a fire trap and will be a disaster if a fire ever erupts and there are folks sleeping. Are there even smoke detectors in the rooms? I do not recall.

Will take a LOT more money and a LOT more talent than the owners can ever afford or volunteers can provide to make that building even remotely close to current safety standards. I like history, and I do not like our society's attitudes on replacing old buildings with new, but there has to be some standards. Facts are facts, it will take MAJOR renovations (rebuilding) to make this place adequate. Band-aids are not what is needed.

[Uncle Joe]

I think they should raise enough money to allay everyone's fears. But that's the rub, until they allay everyone's fears they can't generate enough interest. Yet, they need funding to allay everyone's fears! And if they allayed everyone's fears, they wouldn't need the money!

It's simple, don't give if you (the great, big "you" of negative posters) have this much negativity in your life. And lets face it, you probably don't give anyway. Giving is for the giver, People. Give up a cup of coffee.

[Lyle]

Any time someone comes on a public forum to solicit funds from friends/family/strangers, particularly MAJOR funds, through emotional pleas, a reality check is in order - regardless of your personal feelings for those making the plea.

[GreenBlaze]

There's a reason they don't have the money to support it. They aren't doing enough business or mismanaging funds. Either way, the place needs some serious work, and the $$$ they are sourcing is going to taxes and fines, not to renovation and repairs. Without the renovation and repairs they will likely continue to lose business except to purists and nostalgia, and the place will continue to become more dilapidated. There are far too many other options to make staying at the Doyle for more than a beer/burger worth it. My guess is the writing is on the wall regardless even if they cover the fines and taxes THIS year.

[Lone Wolf]

It's simple, don't give if you (the great, big "you" of negative posters) have this much negativity in your life. And lets face it, you probably don't give anyway. Giving is for the giver, People. Give up a cup of coffee.
i give a lot of $$ to the truly needy, not failing businesses. i give a lot of my time to a volunteer rescue squad.

[Roche]

I think they should raise enough money to allay everyone's fears. But that's the rub, until they allay everyone's fears they can't generate enough interest. Yet, they need funding to allay everyone's fears! And if they allayed everyone's fears, they wouldn't need the money!

It's simple, don't give if you (the great, big "you" of negative posters) have this much negativity in your life. And lets face it, you probably don't give anyway. Giving is for the giver, People. Give up a cup of coffee.

What a negative assumption, (the great big "you" of negative posters).

[Uncle Joe]

What a negative assumption, (the great big "you" of negative posters).

I stand by it. Most people who find all of these reasons not to help, and typically reasons to convince others not to, aren't helpful people anyway.

[Lyle]

You obviously missed the part where I said I made a donation.

I have no problems trying to get the Kelley's out of the current financial bind, so that they do not loose everything - they have helped many of us for many years, I'll give them a hand in the current crisis.

My objection is trying to fund a business endeavor, one that has virtually insurmountable problems, through donations from helpful folks. My understanding is that they have tried to get historical preservation groups interested in this property for years - they didn't bite. To ask for 80,000 to fix the plumbing, and do nothing for the rotting structure or totally inadequate electrical is throwing money down the drain, other people's money.

My goal isn't necessarily to stop others from donating, but, as I said, offer a reality check. Even if they get the 80,000 for the plumbing, the problem isn't solved. As Lone Wolf implied, or asked, will this be an annual campaign. If folks want to fund a business that way, more power to them, but I think it will get old real fast for those being asked to contribute. My point is, should this be started and prolonged, or should they cut the losses now?

By the way, I would be willing to bet that I have contributed a lot more to trails and community, both monetarily and in physical labor, than you have over the years. You paint with a very large brush, unfortunately, you aren't very accurate, so you make a mess of your project.

Going round in circles now, and getting personal - last post for me on this topic.

[Roche]

I stand by it. Most people who find all of these reasons not to help, and typically reasons to convince others not to, aren't helpful people anyway.

So you believe you can read into the hearts, souls and intentions of complete strangers? Or is this super power only limited to people with different opinions than your own.

FWIW, I'm still paying down a mortgage and hope to send two kids through college, along with all of the other usual family expenses. Am I worthy of a cup of coffee?

[Lone Wolf]

I stand by it. Most people who find all of these reasons not to help, and typically reasons to convince others not to, aren't helpful people anyway.

you're very wrong. period

[Uncle Joe]

So you believe you can read into the hearts, souls and intentions of complete strangers? Or is this super power only limited to people with different opinions than your own.

FWIW, I'm still paying down a mortgage and hope to send two kids through college, along with all of the other usual family expenses. Am I worthy of a cup of coffee?

Don't be silly. It's a general statement that says nothing about someone specifically. On it's face it makes perfect sense. Why would anyone who is critical to the point of advising others on the futility of giving, secretly be a prolific giver? I'm not looking into the hearts and souls of anyone. I'm merely saying that people who moan about giving and others who do aren't logically going to be inclined to give. That's all.

FWIW, if you're paying down a mortgage and trying to send two kids to college you are especially worthy of a cup of coffee!

[Uncle Joe]

you're very wrong. period

Well, let's hope so.

[WhiteBlaze]

<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="7" style="vertical-align:top;"><tr><td width="80" align="center" valign="top"><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNFW6WDgD0xB2YvpEjB0rQm75PJUqQ&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061870074&ei=f9LlVqiiDIm_8gHY5L6QCA&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/doyle_hotel_duncannon.html"><img src="//t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVjif0XyL1kd5fKUk5PcW1NgTcLH-ZQMLFJUNk8KddC-eHI77GSAhBZRZvjJRIipELNMibtR0" alt="" border="1" width="80" height="80"><br><font size="-2">PennLive.com</font></a></font></td><td valign="top" class="j"><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class="lh"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNFW6WDgD0xB2YvpEjB0rQm75PJUqQ&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061870074&ei=f9LlVqiiDIm_8gHY5L6QCA&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/doyle_hotel_duncannon.html"><b>&#39;Save the Doyle&#39; campaign reaches $10000 goal for historic <b>Appalachian Trail</b> hotel</b></a><br><font size="-1"><b><font color="#6f6f6f">PennLive.com</font></b></font><br><font size="-1">A campaign to raise $10,000 for repairs to Duncannon&#39;s historic Doyle Hotel has reached its goal, according to the fundraising website. Two years of back taxes, reaching an estimated $9,000, and necessary property repairs had prompted a "Save the Doyle <b>...</b></font><br><font size="-1"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNGTU4gK97g8saz5Qm4Ur_65tPJ2RQ&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061870074&ei=f9LlVqiiDIm_8gHY5L6QCA&url=http://www.pennlive.com/perry-county-times/index.ssf/2016/03/new_manager_settles_into_job_a.html">New manager settles into job at Duncannon</a><font size="-1" color="#6f6f6f"><nobr>PennLive.com</nobr></font></font><br><font size="-1" class="p"></font><br><font class="p" size="-1"><a class="p" href="http://news.google.com/news/more?ncl=dUJng6ij6qdAx2MPIm2Z4DTZdNvbM&authuser=0&ned=us"><nobr><b>all 3 news articles&nbsp;&raquo;</b></nobr></a></font></div></font></td></tr></table>

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&fd=R&ct2=us&usg=AFQjCNFW6WDgD0xB2YvpEjB0rQm75PJUqQ&clid=c3a7d30bb8a4878e06b80cf16b898331&cid=52779061870074&ei=f9LlVqiiDIm_8gHY5L6QCA&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/doyle_hotel_duncannon.html)

[rocketsocks]

Romanticism is never a good business modle, and the old saying of "throwing good money after bad" comes to mind.

[rocketsocks]

And not fur nothin' the thread is a news story, and all that follow are options to that story, I could care less if someone wants to give or not give, I'd never tell anyone what to do with thier money but my kids.

[OCDave]

Perhaps the Kellys would find a happier life if freed from the perceived responsibilities of keeping the hotel afloat. Perhaps what ever might spring up to fill the void left by the demise of the Doyle hotel would make the world a better place. Perhaps "Enabling" the Kellys to continue down a self-destructive path is not the act of kindness it was intended.

Two sides of ever issue, no need to scold me because you disagree.

[George]

funding this failing business is no dumber than funding someones vacation ( "trail magic" )

[MuddyWaters]

Without a positive cash flow model that includes maintenance, repair, upgrades, all you can do is postpone the inevitable a little while longer. Such is the life cycle of every structure.

[rocketsocks]

And not fur nothin' the thread is a news story, and all that follow are options to that story, I could care less if someone wants to give or not give, I'd never tell anyone what to do with thier money but my kids.opinions...not options, ugh!

[Miel]

What did I miss in my reading that the Doyles can't take out a home equity line of credit? First to pay the tax bill, then to attend to repairs. Where does the National Register of Historic Places stand on this?

Aren't these people in their 70s? Where would they go? Who would hire them in a culture of age discrimination? They need an angel investor who will take charge of the financial mess, and still allow the Doyle's to run the place, live there. Can this story be moved beyond the AT community and into the national press (if it hasn't already)?

[rafe]

Hey guys, another quick thought, as I've already written on this matter on Facebook and elsewhere: This is not about how unhappy you were with your room, lack of amenities, whatever. The Doyle is not the hotel Australia and has never tried to be. Instead, it's a very special place, run by really great folks. If you were lucky enough to meet them, and had a good time there, and wanna help them out in their time of need, well I think that's GREAT. If you don't, well swell, but this is not the time or place to rip on the place. Pat and Vickey over the years have performed kindnesses for hikers THAT CANNOT BE COUNTED, so unless you have something nice to say about the place, or the extraordinary people who move sun and moon to keep it open.....well, this is not your thread.

I hate having to agree with Jack but every now and then it happens.

[Tuckahoe]

Where does the National Register of Historic Places stand on this?

What would NRHP have to stand on? The register is merely a honorary designation that does not provide protection or preservation. There have been nearly 1000 properties removed from the register, usually because of their destruction. Not all historic buildings are worthy or structurally sound enough to be saved.

[mweinstone]

MATTY'S PRAYER
by mat
One nanosecond after being handed artworlds septer and robe for being found to be the tru and rightfull heir to the citidel of artopia...........
Matty , being the consumate philadelphia historical home and landmark painter with such feathers in his cap as, the hill physic kieth house, the philadelphia atheneum, the samual powell house , stenton museum, psfs building, and more......
Would do this to pat and miss vickys doyel;
first, i shut off all the power and string worklights to a desil generater.
Next, i empty the building of all things that arent naild down and some that are to make a workspace.
Then i have fourty yard dumpsters placed on site and remove all the plaster and lath walls, plumbing , electricals and every bit of trim from windows to doors and baseboards and all.
These would go to a dip tank stripper and be returned to site nutralized and ready for finnish and reinstallation.
the plumbing and heating and air conditioning would utilize the new close order deliverys for heat and air and fle

[mweinstone]

The walls would be layed up over insulation of a type providing straw bale construction's r values , in real whitecoat plaster over brown rough coat as it was.
the tin roof would be salvaged and repaired. Floors sanded and butcher waxed for a no fuss finish.
A drip hose systym would be strung and a temporary drain layed about the buildings footprint and let to drip water over the bricks for about a year. This is the newgreen way of cleaning brick of soot.
finally, a levy would be built to shield the structure from flood.
after the reinstallation of the trim and windows, painting and severe gardening, pat and miss vicky would have a party with horses and we would all go rideing.

[rocketsocks]

You can do all that? You should buy the doily and serve free beer and haircuts.

[mweinstone]

The exterior wood trim of the doyel is black walnut. Every sill, frame and mutton. If you look on the side faceing away from the prevailing weather, zero rot on the now fully bare of paint sills exists. Thats how quality the building is.
The brickpoint is "butterknife". That means the joints are tiny thin allowing more brick and les mortor for strength.
also, the pointing will be done with stoned mortor as it was adding to the amazing strength.
a piano will be installed on the checkered red and white tile floor area of the stairwell.
Windowsill boxes will grow herbs in every room to offset the funk of a thousand hiker years.
The sent of rosemary will greet the guest.
The sound of ragtime and clasical and all manner of music.
Extensive gardens will suround the newly renovated doyel.
the original style swing bench will be replaced onto the two hooks that still hang in the porch ceiling just outstde pat and miss vicks side door.
a massive, passive , rooftop, solar hot water heater would be fabricated and placed on the roof to gravity feed the buildings needs.
paraboloc solar cookers will be built and placed on a slab in the rear lot for a hiker kitchen.
A rainwater colection system would fill a set of drums along the driveway creating a gravity fed garden water drip feed system to prevent having to water the above ground concentric ring garden to be built on a deck spanning the rear lot.

[mweinstone]

Room 23 will be left as a time capsule and sealed permenently for future archiologists.
I will take up residence in "the loft". A structure so cool, i may die of coolness.
A bare bones platform that hangs below the kupala makeing that sundrenched centerpoint of veiws, my new lair.
It shall be called 23 and no reference to the original rm 23 will ever be made again.
We will remove old 23's door and plaster a wall there.
This will be our gift to the future. Sealed with all its treasures, and curty gaurding against robbers.

[mweinstone]

The numbers:
At five mil job cost and one years work, a general contractor only in charge of oversight would pull about a million salery. Well, im fully qualified and way exsperienced on this exact type project and offer my servises for the cost of food, diabetic crap and rent to keep my apt in the city. So theres 80,000$ off the cost right off the top.
add grant bucks for everything from solarizing to being old.
also, shares could be offered as this will be a for profit mission.
Finnaly, i offer all 1600 peices of my artwork representing millions when, not if....im supreem ruler and potentatme of artworld.

[mweinstone]

The numbers:
At five mil job cost and one years work, a general contractor only in charge of oversight would pull about a million salery. Well, im fully qualified and way exsperienced on this exact type project and offer my servises for the cost of food, diabetic crap and rent to keep my apt in the city. So theres 80,000$ off the cost right off the top.
add grant bucks for everything from solarizing to being old.
also, shares could be offered as this will be a for profit mission.
Finnaly, i offer all 1600 peices of my artwork representing millions when, not if....im supreem ruler and potentatme of artworld.
Ment100,000$ salery for a gc.

[admirald7s]

I'll be blunt. Your posts read like many SBIR proposals from industry I'm evaluating now - just give me lots of money, and we can solve all your problems! If you really want to help the Doyle, have the requisite skills, are truly offering your services, and can arrange this $5M necessary to do your purposes restoration, then be practical and please contact the owners directly. Otherwise, you're just on a stage reading us a story; not that it's a bad story (I like many forms of fiction myself), but it's still just a story.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lyle]

Relax admirald,

Matty is an OLD TIME Whiteblazer who has been absent for a number of years. He is passionate and a bit eccentric, but he is also a great guy with a great heart. He is very dedicated to the AT. He is a part of the AT conscience. His rantings (poetry) take some getting used to, but they do offer a lot of wisdom as well as passion. He does also donate a lot of physical labor to the AT institutions.

You just have to get used to his "style".

[Slo-go'en]

There must be a ton of lead pant in that old building which makes renovations all that more expensive.

[rafe]

this is our matty and his art

[Malto]

Relax admirald,

Matty is an OLD TIME Whiteblazer who has been absent for a number of years. He is passionate and a bit eccentric, but he is also a great guy with a great heart. He is very dedicated to the AT. He is a part of the AT conscience. His rantings (poetry) take some getting used to, but they do offer a lot of wisdom as well as passion. He does also donate a lot of physical labor to the AT institutions.

You just have to get used to his "style".

Agree completly

as far as the Doyle is concerned, I live near there and have been there many times. The owners are great and the building was once incredible. But, I don't believe there is a viable business case for restoring the building to its former glory and operating it as any kind of hiking hangout. There is no money in hikers and money is what it will take to restore that building. Unless, some serious cash is raised as charity which I believe it highly unlikely. I wish them well and hopefully will be back for more of Pats chili.

[swisscross]

There must be a ton of lead pant in that old building which makes renovations all that more expensive.

AND ASBESTOS!

they need to call the travel channel.
http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/hotel-impossible

[rafe]

While we're at it, are Pat and Vicki (at the Doyle) proper trail angels? I say yes.

[Puddlefish]

AND ASBESTOS!

they need to call the travel channel.
http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/hotel-impossible

I've often been accused of raining on parades, but... those reality rebuilding shows have a terrible long term record. Most of the restaurants have since gone out of business, many of the needy people with rebuilt homes lost them from lack of funds for maintenance and taxes.

[swisscross]

I've often been accused of raining on parades, but... those reality rebuilding shows have a terrible long term record. Most of the restaurants have since gone out of business, many of the needy people with rebuilt homes lost them from lack of funds for maintenance and taxes.

Except it appears they are about to lose it anyway.

I was being facetious about the travel channel....but asbestos abatement is not cheap.
Originally constructed in the early 1900's asbestos was not used. Beginning in the '30's it was used for anything from wall board compound, floor tiles, insulation, wiring protection, etc. During the time period between the '30's to the 50's and limited use into the early 90's I cannot imagine that such a building would not have any asbestos..
A survey would be required and would shut the facility down until ALL abatement is complete prior to renovation and or construction. No income during that time (possibly more than a year) would be very difficult for the owners.

[Pedaling Fool]

I've often been accused of raining on parades, but... those reality rebuilding shows have a terrible long term record. Most of the restaurants have since gone out of business, many of the needy people with rebuilt homes lost them from lack of funds for maintenance and taxes.I'm not sure you can blame that on the shows, probably the owners mostly at fault.

It's kind of like the show Biggest Loser, many of the contestants gain a lot of weight back and many people want to blame the show -- wrong, it's the individuals fault.

And who should we blame when all the millionaires lose their millions not long after winning the lottery....

[Lyle]

I'm not sure you can blame that on the shows, probably the owners mostly at fault.

It's kind of like the show Biggest Loser, many of the contestants gain a lot of weight back and many people want to blame the show -- wrong, it's the individuals fault.

And who should we blame when all the millionaires lose their millions not long after winning the lottery....

I don't think that is a fair comparison. The home makeover shows go so far overboard with what they do for their ratings that the homeowners have no chance to be able to maintain these palaces that they produce. The biggest looser, the folks just have to maintain their eating and exercise - not really a financial burden that they have to somehow manage.

[Mags]

Serious question.. It has been quite some time since I've been in that area...

But, the area where the Doyle resides reminds me somewhat of the area where I grew up...meaning that much of the industry has left. And trade jobs have been replaced with lower paying service jobs for those who did not develop skills for so-called professional jobs.

So, I guess my question is, does the area surrounding the Doyle have enough of an economy to support itself outside of hiking season? My gut feeling tells me "No" and I am not sure how long the Doyle would survive without not only a major overhaul but a steady customer base all year patronizing the Doyle.

[illabelle]

Agree completly

as far as the Doyle is concerned, I live near there and have been there many times. The owners are great and the building was once incredible. But, I don't believe there is a viable business case for restoring the building to its former glory and operating it as any kind of hiking hangout. There is no money in hikers and money is what it will take to restore that building. Unless, some serious cash is raised as charity which I believe it highly unlikely. I wish them well and hopefully will be back for more of Pats chili.

Just my two cents: is there any chance of a viable business plan that restores the building and operates it as something other than a hiking hangout (with maybe a few hiker rooms for the sake of nostalgia)? Or is Duncannon just too small a town for that?

(Basically same question as Mags, he beat me to it)

[rafe]

In some ways Duncannon reminds me of Hot Springs. Only difference is Elmer's place is a lot smaller and more manageable, and he's managed to keep it in decent shape. Pat and Vicki are dealing with a much, much larger space, in dire need of repair, from top to bottom. But it's been that way for a long, long time and hikers ought not complain. If it were up to modern standards and codes, they probably wouldn't be willing to pay to stay there.

[admirald7s]

Relax admirald,

Matty is an OLD TIME Whiteblazer who has been absent for a number of years. He is passionate and a bit eccentric, but he is also a great guy with a great heart. He is very dedicated to the AT. He is a part of the AT conscience. His rantings (poetry) take some getting used to, but they do offer a lot of wisdom as well as passion. He does also donate a lot of physical labor to the AT institutions.

You just have to get used to his "style".

No need for me to relax as I'm not worked up. Unfortunately, plain text doesn't convey the sender's tone very well.

You are correct that I don't know Matty, and I did (perhaps incorrectly) insinuate he was unlikely to do the renovations he was proposing. If he's contributed before to other facilities, perhaps he really would put his time and energy into helping the Doyle. My point was that waxing poetic is one thing, but doing it is quite another, and if he was serious about helping, he should contact the owners directly. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy his exposition because I truly did, but I do tend to be more of a realist (some say pessimist) than a dreamer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[soilman]

Serious question.. It has been quite some time since I've been in that area...

But, the area where the Doyle resides reminds me somewhat of the area where I grew up...meaning that much of the industry has left. And trade jobs have been replaced with lower paying service jobs for those who did not develop skills for so-called professional jobs.

So, I guess my question is, does the area surrounding the Doyle have enough of an economy to support itself outside of hiking season? My gut feeling tells me "No" and I am not sure how long the Doyle would survive without not only a major overhaul but a steady customer base all year patronizing the Doyle.

I think you are correct. During my 2010 hike I was walking back from the Doyle from the ice cream store with another hiker. We started talking to a couple of locals drinking beer on their porch. We had a habit of asking locals we met along the way how the economy was in the various towns we passed. They mentioned that they thought the town was dying as many of the youth left Duncannon as soon as they graduated high school because of the lack of opportunity. The one guy said he worked in Harrisburg and lived in Duncannon because the rent was cheap. They also did not know the AT went through town.

[Mags]

In some ways Duncannon reminds me of Hot Springs

Arguably Hot Springs is more of a recreation hub (white water, destination hiking beyond the Appalachian Trail, fishing. mtn biking too?) with some scenic mountains as a backdrop.

Duncannon? Pretty enough but not where many people go for vacation I imagine. The area also, again reminds me of a former industrial area, based around a river, that has seen better days..I grew up in Pawtuxet Valley (http://www.amazon.com/Pawtuxet-Valley-RI-Images-America/dp/0738509558) and it has the same vibe...at least to me.

[rafe]

Interesting points, Mags. When I was in Hot Springs the first time, I remember wondering, "where are the young people" but it was evident there wasn't much for them to do there. It seems a bit livelier now, actually, with a fairly hip little micro-brewery that was busy at lunchtime on a weekday.

I'm not sure what brings people to Duncannon, other than the AT. It's a distant suburb of Harrisburg, more or less. It had a full-fledged supermarket, which I don't recall seeing in Hot Springs.

[peakbagger]

If I can rememeber correctly Duncannon was just wide spot next to river

[capehiker]

Serious question.. It has been quite some time since I've been in that area...

But, the area where the Doyle resides reminds me somewhat of the area where I grew up...meaning that much of the industry has left. And trade jobs have been replaced with lower paying service jobs for those who did not develop skills for so-called professional jobs.

So, I guess my question is, does the area surrounding the Doyle have enough of an economy to support itself outside of hiking season? My gut feeling tells me "No" and I am not sure how long the Doyle would survive without not only a major overhaul but a steady customer base all year patronizing the Doyle.

You are correct. I lived just down the road in Carlisle. In the 25 years since I've graduated high school, dozens of huge manufacturing plants and previous "mainstay" companies have left.

[mweinstone]

One day i will hire grant writters and find a way to save her.
One day i will list her on a site for movie site scouts.
One day i will rent her to gost hunters.

[mweinstone]

Hikers make up enough of the economy torender the question flawed.
At the current low level incoms localy, take away any factor, no matter how small and its a big impact. Allready the local economics requires the hiker percentage.
Bottom line is duncannon could live without hiker dollars only cause they live by there wits allready.
My country need to wake up to the idea that the underdeveloped natio towns, need us as much as we need them. Only the freash canvass of an underdeveloped town can allow new ideas to root in soils layed fallow for just such needs.

[mweinstone]

My ideas for duncannon are too radicalized for most.
But this is hikerdom.
and atroll's my friend.
So heres the insanity other matthewskis may have sheilded you all from.
ill start with the smallest projects and work my way up.
Stay with me....
Worlds larges zipline complex from peters mt shelter to the roof of the doyel where a burger is handed to yo.
Onsite trout pond.
Tiki torch lite boardwalk along the river.
Telescopes all over town free for public use.
A levy to shield duncannon.
Brick sidewalks with memorial bricks just like damascus.
a nascar stadium on the site of the field behimd mutzys.
Maby not.
But a skateboard park and crap for the bored kids.
Did i mention a glass enclosed floating worlds largest ice skeating rink on the sussquhanna?
Two of those.
one completly for locals only.
and bakerys every 100 yards.

[Wise Old Owl]

I don't think that is a fair comparison. The home makeover shows go so far overboard with what they do for their ratings that the homeowners have no chance to be able to maintain these palaces that they produce. The biggest looser, the folks just have to maintain their eating and exercise - not really a financial burden that they have to somehow manage.
You may be right - but the restaurant IMO are clear looser's. In Restaurant Impossible both Delaware restaurants went under very shortly. As they should have, ( I was a patron )

[mweinstone]

Dear admirald7's,, i may not have ever lifted a finger to fix the doyel, but i only take enough toilet paper to get to the next hostle or hotel.

[mweinstone]

Abc buissness makeover chose the doyel to interveiw about a makeover of not just the doyel, it was to be the pilot show and the whole town would have been done.
Me and jester and baltimore jack and pat and miss vic all got interviewed on camera about our exsperiences with the doyel.
it came down to two places and the doyel was one. They asked miss vickey if it was okay if they raised the doyel and built a replica, she said okay.
But in the end it was a no go.

[Old Grouse]

I believe Duncannon's "golden age" was the canal boat era. It sits at the confluence of the Susquehanna and Juniata Rivers. The latter was an important east/west waterway at that time. I'm sure another WBer can confirm or add to this.

[rafe]

You are correct. I lived just down the road in Carlisle. In the 25 years since I've graduated high school, dozens of huge manufacturing plants and previous "mainstay" companies have left.

That's the story of rust-belt America. It's a yooge problem, but it's been going on for a long time. So we're left with Pat and Vicki trying to eke out a living in this derelict historical building. Sad that it's come to this.

[rocketsocks]

this is our matty and his artspy vs spy...Nice!

[kayak karl]

So when we going to there?

[rocketsocks]

So when we going to there?Mondy mornin' 7 o'clock start

[mweinstone]

Duncannon, or " the jewel of the sussqhanna" as it was called became a bottleneck of sorts where every barge had to be unloaded and reloaded across the river and that made its hayday.
As hikers take mutzy's free shuttle up the mountain from the doyel each day in hiking season, they unknowingly speed by an important site just 10 feet from the road off in the woods lies the old road that used to bring every car thru duncannon.
Its a bit of asphalt that ends in a straight cut and turns to dirt.
I allways say, the day a highway worker plased a cone in the road and declared rt 11/15 open, on that day when duncannon was bipassed , was its death.
If my god has a plan for me to be a philanthropist thru moneys my art makes, after redoing the town, opening a history museum and buying 3b's.......i plan on cutting off the last 12 inches of roadbed from that old road and putting it up as a monument to rebirth as a sculpture in a sculpture garden i have planned for ada park.

[illabelle]

Well, guess what? The #1 NOBO (Speedstick) and the #1 SOBO (Hiking Viking) met each other recently at The Doyle. They got a little bit of local media coverage, and were able to contribute some attention to the Doyle's plight, which no doubt helped them reach their funding goal quickly.

Here's an excerpt from Speedstick's blog:

...it’s a special moment that only two hikers can ever share. It only happens once, when the first northbound hiker of the year meets the first southbound hiker of the year. And it happened at The Doyle, where on an otherwise quiet Thursday, tables were filled with patrons, friends and supporters...
http://marriedtothetrail.com/

[Heliocen]

At $25 a hiker you'd think they'd be swimming in money! What planet do you live on? In my opinion, you sound like one of those hikers that I see all the time on the AT. You take hostel owners, trail angels and everyone else who selflessly helps a hiker out for granted. I'd suggest you give back a little more, maybe then you wouldn't have such a snarky attitude!

[Heliocen]

My comments about the snarky attitude are for Greenblaze.

[Mother Natures Son]

If the end is near for the Doyles, then has anyone considered a last meal for it closes? I would've love seen pictures of it in it's peak.

[turtle fast]

If more income/customer traffic is needed in the off season, then the Doyle should look at possible destination events for the Harrisburg crowd. For example, making it into a speakeasy with costumed employees/owners specializing in prohibition mixers with entertainment and "prohibition" staged events like flapper gals doing an act, etc.. Or having a turn of the century theme Or even steampunk may help drive intrest in a traveling destination.

[GreenBlaze]

My comments about the snarky attitude are for Greenblaze.

"all the time on the AT" .. so let me guess .. you live on and traverse all sections of the AT regularly? Oh.. you're just talking about some tiny section in Maine. Either way, my comments are rooted in reality. Sorry it doesn't fit into your fantasy land where bills can go unpaid, taxes aren't collected, and managing a business effectively isn't necessary. You know nothing about other hikers, what they have done, or what they have given back, so making blanket statements and assumptions targeting a large group is absurd. /digress

[Malto]

If more income/customer traffic is needed in the off season, then the Doyle should look at possible destination events for the Harrisburg crowd. For example, making it into a speakeasy with costumed employees/owners specializing in prohibition mixers with entertainment and "prohibition" staged events like flapper gals doing an act, etc.. Or having a turn of the century theme Or even steampunk may help drive intrest in a traveling destination.

There are several places like you describe in the Harrisburg area, one near Lancaster has dinner events in an attached cave system. The problem is this and hoards of AT hikers are mutually exclusive. Cheap dive for hikers vs. more upscale for civilians.

[rocketsocks]

Micro brewery

[mweinstone]

Whats needed to save our doyel, is an attraction.

Every room in the hotel must be painted with dayglow paints and blacklights installed.
A pet deer must be allowed to live in the hallways.
Photographs of air conditioners and microwaves and coffie makers must be put up in the rooms.

[turtle fast]

Matty with the day glow paints backlights and a tame pet deer in the hall is glorious. Putting up pictures of a microwave, AC, and a coffee maker would be better if they were framed.

[rocketsocks]

Whats needed to save our doyel, is an attraction.

Every room in the hotel must be painted with dayglow paints and blacklights installed.o
A pet deer must be allowed to live in the hallways.
Photographs of air conditioners and microwaves and coffie makers must be put up in the rooms.id fear for the deer, might end up crankin' out a puppy monkey baby with all the freaky over sexed crazed hairy thru hikers.

[rocketsocks]

Some frat boys my daughter knows set up a go fund me page and bought a velossa raptor for the house, told all the people who funds what it was for too...that made it and got one.

[rocketsocks]

34261
Crazy, no?

[capehiker]

Micro brewery

Actually, that's the best idea yet. Micro breweries are huge in that area.

[Jeff]

Most any investor who would put big dollars into a project like this, would raise the room rates significantly.

[Puddlefish]

Most any investor who would put big dollars into a project like this, would raise the room rates significantly.

I've seen small town banks bailout a local company with lots of employees before, or some sort of serious impact on the local economy (the only grocery store in the area kind of thing,) but even they typically need to see some sort of business plan showing the loan can be repaid.

Private investors, are going to want a return on profit, and might even bring their own business plan. Unfortunately... this kind of investor is equally likely to be predatory, in that they'll fully expect the business to fail, arrange for lien priority with other lenders, end up with ownership of the building after they essentially set you up to fail with a minimal dollar investment, that they know won't suffice.

[ALLEGHENY]

Micro brewery


Actually, that's the best idea yet. Micro breweries are huge in that area.

So are nude exotic dance clubs

[Puddlefish]

The problems I've seen with some of these suggestions, are that they're high dollar, high effort, gentrification endeavors. These are absurdly hard to manage without a nearby and steady population of rich people from surrounding towns.

[Bronk]

The best they can hope for is to rent those rooms by the week in the condition they are in, which will bring in drugs, prostitutes and riffraff in general.

[Old Grouse]

Micro brewery

This would at least pay homage to the Doyle's historic ownership by Budweiser.

[ALLEGHENY]

With AT hikers being the sole clientele they need to add more hiker services to generate revenue. A one stop shop like Mt. Xing at Neal's Gap. Some gear ,some groceries, shuttles, kayak and bike rental.

In the off season they could have flea markets or offer classes outdoor related.

[Puddlefish]

The best they can hope for is to rent those rooms by the week in the condition they are in, which will bring in drugs, prostitutes and riffraff in general.

Could advertise for a retired hiker with handyman skills, with their own source of income, free rent in exchange for $200 worth of materials and the labor to install those materials each month. Still run some of the risks of course, but might get lucky.

[Slo-go'en]

The best they can hope for is to rent those rooms by the week in the condition they are in, which will bring in drugs, prostitutes and riffraff in general.

When I first stayed there in '89 it was a flop house with some pretty shady characters living there.

[rafe]

At the bonfire story-telling session at the ALDHA Gathering in '07, Tarlin told a long yarn about a dude who died in his room at the Doyle, and his (Jack's) involvement in the discovery and removal of the body.

[dudeijuststarted]

So are nude exotic dance clubs

"Exotic" is stretching it a little bit :)

[turtle fast]

I think if a microbrewery went in, then yes room rates would skyrocket... But any investor worth his salt would know that you would need to accommodate the throngs of hikers as it would impact revenue stream for the positive; think 3-4 beers and food/lodging vs 1 beer/food (and hike on). It would be a destination point too, but at a steep invested cost obviously beyond the current ownership a ability. What they would need is an investor/partner they supply the $... Current owners supply the labor, the property, and onsite management.

[Berry Belle]

Perhaps we should plan a couple weekends to fill up the hotel with Whiteblazers from surrounding states and do day hikes or an over nighter. Ie. in spring or fall when they are not busy enough.

Maybe in October? Count me in.

[mweinstone]

Im glad your all brainstorming.
Pointing out major flaws in each of the ideas would be fruitless.
Supporting this brainstorming is better.
I have a theory, that each and every person who even knows about our trail, is important.

[turtle fast]

Well said Matty!

[GreenBlaze]

Someone call Mark Zuckerberg and tell him to toss .0000000001% of his net worth to update the Doyle and keep it running for the next 100 years.

[mweinstone]

Early in the year of next
Wrote a poet in a small cold beloved room
The smell of popcorn heated somewhat
Next came the art and with a flash
An onion awaited the man downstairs
Not a local either
An outside onion
No one has such power
Myths and urban legends far from true
Somehow i was witnessing it all
All the way from now
But how could this be was no riddle
Deals were made long ago
backroom kitchen deals as well
Onions were made and searved as soldiers
An army of them surrounded the poet
They were his to command
Into the doyel they marched
And with pats approval
none could stand agin
The poet ruled onions and a small cold room
All was well with the man
This was bad poetry season
Leaves of grass had no chance in this place
Leaves of ass spoke volumes

[mweinstone]

The interconnections are real, and their fabulous
Onions mean things
Onions effect things
The nexsus of some things is onions
Onions have saves countless lives
Onions are a simple folk
Subsisting on the art the produce
Something as simple as an onion can save the doyel
Open your imagination to reveal the many layers
An all you can eat onion buffett
Pat cooks up every imaginable onion dish
We sell the onion, as a cureall
Everything else on the menue goes
Only onions
Its a longshot
Its what we got

[mweinstone]

Wasted 15 years of my life preachin bacon
Im a changed man
Might say lwolf an gypsy did this
Still
Im an onion lover and proud of it
I denounce all that is bacon

[rafe]

Nothing wrong with onions. Pretty much any hot meal in my house starts with sauteed onions.

[rocketsocks]

Garlic is heart healthy, but makes lousy rings

[turtle fast]

I think its bacon that keeps many folks from being vegetarians. Doyle branded bacon?!

[squeezebox]

I was an RN. participated in code blues. Sometimes the patient stabalized enough to be sent to the ICU. Just as often the lead physician would finally ask if anyone had an issue with calling the code off. I'm not the lead physician here. But I will ask if it's time to call off the code blue here for the Doyle. ???

[Heliocen]

"all the time on the AT" .. so let me guess .. you live on and traverse all sections of the AT regularly? Oh.. you're just talking about some tiny section in Maine. Either way, my comments are rooted in reality. Sorry it doesn't fit into your fantasy land where bills can go unpaid, taxes aren't collected, and managing a business effectively isn't necessary. You know nothing about other hikers, what they have done, or what they have given back, so making blanket statements and assumptions targeting a large group is absurd. /digress

Last year there were hostel owners who closed down for at least the rest of the season, maybe forever, because of some really obnoxious behavior by hikers who did charming things that they rationalized, for instance, as "Yogi-ing", when they snuck out w/o paying, crapping on the floor because of some perceived wrong and just basically being pains in the ass to people who were trying to help them. Maybe you've done none of these offences, but when you're chortling over some hostel's misfortune, you seem to be expressing that kind of attitude. So I called you on it. If the shoe fits wear it.:(

[rocketsocks]

Last year there were hostel owners who closed down for at least the rest of the season, maybe forever, because of some really obnoxious behavior by hikers who did charming things that they rationalized, for instance, as "Yogi-ing", when they snuck out w/o paying, crapping on the floor because of some perceived wrong and just basically being pains in the ass to people who were trying to help them. Maybe you've done none of these offences, but when you're chortling over some hostel's misfortune, you seem to be expressing that kind of attitude. So I called you on it. If the shoe fits wear it.:( Crapped on the floor! Whata a bunch a farm animals, don't matter what the hostel may have done, that's just wrong plain and simple.

[Heliocen]

Crapped on the floor! Whata a bunch a farm animals, don't matter what the hostel may have done, that's just wrong plain and simple.
Unfortunately I've heard it from other hikers and hostel owners who keep in touch with each other. And I was a witness to a hiker threatening to do just that for some phantom reason that I'm sure she couldn't explain.

[George]

I denounce all that is bacon


the clearest sign in the book of Revelations that the end times are upon us

condolences to the class of 2017 and beyond

[Last Call]

Let it die a peaceful death....geeze, just let it go.....

[mweinstone]

A troubled and list 14 year old runnaway from philly stole 400 bucks from his moms mac account by depositing an empty envelope and telleing the machiene it was 800$. He bused himself to dwg and stroudberg with his lowe alpine contour 3 pack and a bag of gorp, he managed to just reach the clarks ferry bridge in 10 days and hobbled into the baroom at the doyel hotel on bloody stumps.
Old man jim doyle said," its 15 for the week or 7 a night and you cant drink your too young.
He said the week was from sunday nite to thursday morn so i paid for the week being rich on moms loot.
he gave me room 16.
The little bathroom still worked back then and the tub was twice the size of the one in there now.
you can still see the imprints on the floor where the old hospitol size tub sat.
it may have been removed to save water.
In that week, i went to mr millers, bought fools die by mario puzo and a big bag of m& m's penut.
i sat reading and bathing in the luxuriously huge tub and swinging on the swing that still has its hooks in the porch ceiling outside pat and miss vic's.
About 20 residents lived there and a big tv sat with many lazyboy recliners in the ballroom.
each night the local kids would drag the strip and park out front the bank hopeing to score a buz from hippy hikers who had a routeen of throwingroaches over the railing to them .
I fell in love.
Let the doyel sink?
Not on my watch.
this one goes till he drops.
I will bail the ship and go down with her.

[Water Rat]

I was an RN. participated in code blues. Sometimes the patient stabalized enough to be sent to the ICU. Just as often the lead physician would finally ask if anyone had an issue with calling the code off. I'm not the lead physician here. But I will ask if it's time to call off the code blue here for the Doyle. ???

The only people who can "call" this one would be the owners. Doesn't sound like they are ready to throw in the towel quite yet. The people who are contributing money to keep the doors open don't seem quite ready to call this one either. As for the rest of us, it's really not ours to call.

If people want to donate or stay there - the doors will remain open.
If people choose not to donate/frequent the business - the doors will close.

The loudest voice is money in this instance.

[rocketsocks]

A troubled and list 14 year old runnaway from philly stole 400 bucks from his moms mac account by depositing an empty envelope and telleing the machiene it was 800$. He bused himself to dwg and stroudberg with his lowe alpine contour 3 pack and a bag of gorp, he managed to just reach the clarks ferry bridge in 10 days and hobbled into the baroom at the doyel hotel on bloody stumps.
Old man jim doyle said," its 15 for the week or 7 a night and you cant drink your too young.
He said the week was from sunday nite to thursday morn so i paid for the week being rich on moms loot.
he gave me room 16.
The little bathroom still worked back then and the tub was twice the size of the one in there now.
you can still see the imprints on the floor where the old hospitol size tub sat.
it may have been removed to save water.
In that week, i went to mr millers, bought fools die by mario puzo and a big bag of m& m's penut.
i sat reading and bathing in the luxuriously huge tub and swinging on the swing that still has its hooks in the porch ceiling outside pat and miss vic's.
About 20 residents lived there and a big tv sat with many lazyboy recliners in the ballroom.
each night the local kids would drag the strip and park out front the bank hopeing to score a buz from hippy hikers who had a routeen of throwingroaches over the railing to them .
I fell in love.
Let the doyel sink?
Not on my watch.
this one goes till he drops.
I will bail the ship and go down with her.very nice sentiment, you're a good man Mr. matthewski.

[mweinstone]

Duncannon pa is a place of healing.
It has been left behind.
It is a timecapsule, a touchstone and a treasure.
All of us need an old ramshakle building, a graveyard on a hill and a town of 1100 where you can mmnap on the road after the bars close.

[mweinstone]

The potential for development in a town unimproved in this century are obvious . I would direct the careing public to the idea that not improving duncannon would be an option of presevation

[mweinstone]

Even if we cant improve the doyel. Might be quite wonderfull to keep it around till we could.
Then, our kids can see it in its " glory"

[mweinstone]

Next weekend ill be at the doyel doing several small projects.
First, im going to pull the bottom sash in room 23's window and install new brass chains. I pulled it out last year and rehung the weights but only had paracord. The danger is the cord is now old enough to break so i want my new chains in.when i restored the weight boxes, i opened all four and now both sash operate freely but for the fact that dynamic rope is riding the pullys instead of static safty chain.
Cant wait to have the best window in the doyel.
Lol. I made it airtight by resetting the stops and sealling the glass.
Then of course cause im a matthewski, in the final move, i broke the glass with my shoulder putting it all back and so john the doyel's graious bartender drove me to get new double thick glass.
Im an idiot. But this time im just swappin out the cords for chains.
then i was thinking of swabbing the decks marine style like a barraks on my hands and knees. I love to see the staircase washed.
then ill make art.

[BonBon]

It would be fun to have a hiker or two sponsor each room- fix it up, paint etc-then the room could be named after them. When hikers checked in, instead of saying you are in room 3 they could say you are in the BonBon room - or whoever. Ill bet the rooms could be all pretty sweet with a $1000 buy in. That wouldn't do any structural changing but could definitely make the rooms fresher and handle stuff like window repairs and maybe new carpet. Doyle could host the hiker room re-do challenge, we could stay in the room we renovate- and over a weekend repair, paint etc. Then eat cheeseburgers and drink beer at night. Any money out of the thousand not spent goes to the bathroom repair pot. Of course the star would be the hiker who sponsored a bathroom. That is big bucks to bring those back.

[Lone Wolf]

ya can't make chicken salad outa chicken poo

[BonBon]

ya can't make chicken salad outa chicken poo

Don't tell McDonalds!!!

[lonehiker]

It would be fun to have a hiker or two sponsor each room- fix it up, paint etc-then the room could be named after them. When hikers checked in, instead of saying you are in room 3 they could say you are in the BonBon room - or whoever. Ill bet the rooms could be all pretty sweet with a $1000 buy in. That wouldn't do any structural changing but could definitely make the rooms fresher and handle stuff like window repairs and maybe new carpet. Doyle could host the hiker room re-do challenge, we could stay in the room we renovate- and over a weekend repair, paint etc. Then eat cheeseburgers and drink beer at night. Any money out of the thousand not spent goes to the bathroom repair pot. Of course the star would be the hiker who sponsored a bathroom. That is big bucks to bring those back.

I was going to sit this debate out, but...

I have always listed the Doyle as my favorite restaurant on the AT. I still stand by that opinion. But, the above post brings up a very telling point. Even general maintenance and cleaning is lacking with the Doyle. It is relatively inexpensive to apply a coat of paint, shampoo a carpet (the hallway carpets were horrendous), etc. The rooms were marginally clean. All of this falls upon ownership/management. I know that there are larger issues here, but sometimes you have to start with the little things. I hope that their charity drive was/is successful. But fear that it is simply a temporary fix.

If the Doyle were to undergo a full renovation, I for one wouldn't mind paying full motel rates to stay there.

[turtle fast]

I seriously think BonBon may have something there in room sponsership. Naming rights are done all the time, and having a program where for a set donation amount you obtain room naming rights and some sort of privledges like two room nights a year or whatever. Room sponsership costs include a portion for plumbing, wiring, general common repairs. Sponsers are responsible for room paint/design and furnishings per some established guidelines. An unconventional idea/thought for an unconventional place.
Realistically I don't know if the current owners would ever recover what they paid for the Doyle. It may be in their interest to become a nonprofit, take a sponsership route and make a living from jobs made by the nonprofit to run the place.

[rocketsocks]

Complete with shampain glass tub and Lincoln room.

[Puddlefish]

I seriously think BonBon may have something there in room sponsership. Naming rights are done all the time, and having a program where for a set donation amount you obtain room naming rights and some sort of privledges like two room nights a year or whatever. Room sponsership costs include a portion for plumbing, wiring, general common repairs. Sponsers are responsible for room paint/design and furnishings per some established guidelines. An unconventional idea/thought for an unconventional place.
Realistically I don't know if the current owners would ever recover what they paid for the Doyle. It may be in their interest to become a nonprofit, take a sponsership route and make a living from jobs made by the nonprofit to run the place.


The only problem is that the plumbing, wiring, and insulation need to be done before the walls are sealed up and made to look pretty.

My first house was a circa 1790 farmhouse bought at auction. I got to deal with removing 200 years of prior homeowner bandages. Pretty much had to gut the place back to the beams on room at a time. In one room I removed six layers of rotted water damaged ceilings, because no one bothered to fix the initial leak. Any minor repair attempt in an old house nearly always turns into a major repair.

[illabelle]

The only problem is that the plumbing, wiring, and insulation need to be done before the walls are sealed up and made to look pretty.

My first house was a circa 1790 farmhouse bought at auction. I got to deal with removing 200 years of prior homeowner bandages. Pretty much had to gut the place back to the beams on room at a time. In one room I removed six layers of rotted water damaged ceilings, because no one bothered to fix the initial leak. Any minor repair attempt in an old house nearly always turns into a major repair.

Would be interesting to hear an accurate and concise description of the repairs that are needed. I visited the Doyle a couple years ago for a shower at the end of a section hike. It was seriously dirty, and there were places where plumbing was exposed, places where flooring had been "patched." Disregarding cosmetic/finish/housekeeping issues, what are the problems that must be fixed? Is the place structurally sound? What's the condition of the roof? Is the wiring dangerous, or simply not up-to-code?
Around here, if you start modifying a building, the new work generally has to conform to current code. Maybe that has been a deterrent to any serious repairs.

[Bronk]

I've never stayed there, but from the pictures and descriptions I've seen the owners have taken the attitude of "because I can't do a full renovation I'm just going to let it continue to deteriorate." Because they can't do it all, they do nothing. Like others have said, there are basic cosmetic things that could be done without a lot of expense. And I see no point in pouring money into a project where the management is so poor. These people need to put together a business plan with a path to profitability. Without that, anybody who helps them is throwing good money after bad. It seems to me like they just want to muddle along as they are and hope they can get by...this isn't going to cut it.

[mweinstone]

The doyel is such a treasure to so many.
all things old and decrepid get grief from those who fear age.
old people and old buildings and things are so vital.
They are touchstones to our past.
They are carins that show direction.
They are made with old ways lost and forgotten.
they smell differently.
They can have weird hair and crooked bodys.
They leak and are cold and frail.
And they outlast all that is new and flimsy and built for convenience and speed

[BonBon]

The only problem is that the plumbing, wiring, and insulation need to be done before the walls are sealed up and made to look pretty.

My first house was a circa 1790 farmhouse bought at auction. I got to deal with removing 200 years of prior homeowner bandages. Pretty much had to gut the place back to the beams on room at a time. In one room I removed six layers of rotted water damaged ceilings, because no one bothered to fix the initial leak. Any minor repair attempt in an old house nearly always turns into a major repair.

This is true. My husband and I restored an old home in Wilmington NC- talk about layers. Behind the walls that needed repairing were walls that needed repairing. The electric and plumbing were most expensive and removing the lead paint with a heat gun was an experience I hope to never repeat. But I would- for a fun Doyle room re-do challenge!

[mweinstone]

Heres a few things to think about.
First, the doyel would have to close and that means finding a way for the occupants who live there to get by during any renovation.
and by first i mean right after finding funding.
then the work cannot start without power and that means exterior ambilicals to another source.
Next the gutting.
Nothing of the old horse hair plaster or lath or browncoat or insulation can stay and all must be put in fourty yard dumpsters and hauled.
Then the plumbing and wireing gets seperated and sent to a recycleing plant for the cash value of it.
Now you string worklights, have johhney on the spots rented and delivered, and you have, after all that, a rudimentry worksite still requireing a worshop area a materials delivery and storage area andall the trim goes to a diptank.
then new stuff can begin any way fit.

[mweinstone]

There is a way to put a building back.
As a kid, bill carr taught me.
As an adult, warren taught me more.
Restoreing old philly holms all my life finnished me into a jedi knight painter.
for instance:
I would remove each sash from each window and give them this treatment most fine if allowed.
You drive a course threaded one inch drywall nail into a predrilled hole in each dowel holding the windows four
bords together and ease them out.
Next you dissasemble the sash into four rails, a stack of muttons, a stack of glass and a set of new dowels to reasemble them.
you clean the glass opticaly perfect and soak all the wood in a tray filled with linseed oil for two weeks.
This replaces the primer paint and allows finnish paint to go on like lipstick on maddonna.
forgot, you strip the wood first of all paint with dry scrapeing or remove the interior coats of shellac with denatured alcohol nd

[mweinstone]

Then you reasemble, make your own glazing compound by useing store bought and adding lindseed oil.... paint that sucker after surgically glazing it and after useing the right push points to hold the glass.......then reinstall it withnew brass chains and reconditioned pullys . Then do the frame and sill and trim all special with the finnest materials.
I do that.

[Puddlefish]

There is a way to put a building back.
As a kid, bill carr taught me.
As an adult, warren taught me more.
Restoreing old philly holms all my life finnished me into a jedi knight painter.
for instance:
I would remove each sash from each window and give them this treatment most fine if allowed.
You drive a course threaded one inch drywall nail into a predrilled hole in each dowel holding the windows four
bords together and ease them out.
Next you dissasemble the sash into four rails, a stack of muttons, a stack of glass and a set of new dowels to reasemble them.
you clean the glass opticaly perfect and soak all the wood in a tray filled with linseed oil for two weeks.
This replaces the primer paint and allows finnish paint to go on like lipstick on maddonna.
forgot, you strip the wood first of all paint with dry scrapeing or remove the interior coats of shellac with denatured alcohol nd

For me, it started as a kid, my dad bought this shell of a lakefront cottage and we rebuilt it into something glorious. I'd be up on the roof working while my dad was reading from these orange 1960s Popular Mechanics Build it Yourself manuals.

I never liked painting though. I'm a sloppy enough painter, that no one has ever asked me to do it twice, which is how I prefer it. I probably could do it well if I tried, but that's going to remain a secret.

[mweinstone]

There is a way to fashion a length of intricatly designed crown moulding from scratch when none is available.
You take a contoure comb and push it against an existing moulding to be copied.
then you cut strips of drywall and stack them in a way to digitaly mimick the contour.
Then with your hand full of joint compound, you coat the lenght of strips further heading in the direction of the final contour. Then when dry, you carve and scrape and sand and compare the forming contours to the combs original print and continue untill perfect.
You can make 8 foot lengths from good drywall but no longer.
I got 600$ for each one made as a teen.

[Another Kevin]

Next you dissasemble the sash into four rails, a stack of muttons, a stack of glass and a set of new dowels to reasemble them.

That's a pretty funny autocorrupt. I presume you meant to type 'mullions'? With all those windows at the Doyle, I'm sure it'll look like millions of mullions.

[Tigerslair]

I think he was going for muntins, but we got the idea. :)

[turtle fast]

Does all the lathe/plaster need to go? If good and sound, we just opened up one side of a wall to replumb/wire. Which cuts down the drywall needed and retains some character. A few thousand dollars saved but considering the overall needed costs is a drop in the bucket. I assume replumb with PEX with the ability to isolate floors in winter. Low cost HVAC ideas? PTAC hotel units would be a travesty here.

[dudeijuststarted]

I'm thinking a Delorean, a clock tower, and a scatterbrained professor could somehow help save the Doyle...

[Bronk]

A simple and inexpensive plan would be to rehab one room at a time and then price that room accordingly for people who want a more premium experience...then take all the revenue from that room and put it into the next room. Sometimes slow and incremental progress makes the most sense, and it allows you to proceed in such a way that you won't be building something that the revenues of the business cannot support.

[Tuckahoe]

I'm thinking a Delorean, a clock tower, and a scatterbrained professor could somehow help save the Doyle...

And of all the suggestions, this one is surprisingly the most realistic and will probably be the most successful.

[illabelle]

A simple and inexpensive plan would be to rehab one room at a time and then price that room accordingly for people who want a more premium experience...then take all the revenue from that room and put it into the next room. Sometimes slow and incremental progress makes the most sense, and it allows you to proceed in such a way that you won't be building something that the revenues of the business cannot support.

Agreed. This incremental approach makes a lot of sense.
On the other hand, it costs nearly nothing to do some housekeeping. Until they have that issue solved, there's no point in dressing up a room or three.

[MuddyWaters]

Agreed. This incremental approach makes a lot of sense.
On the other hand, it costs nearly nothing to do some housekeeping. Until they have that issue solved, there's no point in dressing up a room or three.

Doesnt make much financial sense to polish the railing and shine the decks of an old leaky unseaworthy garbage scow. Neglect is more than skin deep, and its like cancer.

[ALLEGHENY]

It's been something like Four weeks now, and do we know how much money they have panhandled? Did the taxes get paid?
I just paid mine with out anyone's concern or help. Did they get any extra monies? What is the first improvement with that money? Can't they borrow against the property? Have any of you gone to the place this month to see how they are doing and if they have heat. Are they eating? And is the cable bill paid!

[Lyle]

Out of line and just plain mean spirited.

[One Half]

Looks like they met their goal of raising $10K. Wonder what the status and next steps are.

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/03/doyle_hotel_duncannon.html

[biggcarl]

I was just there on Saturday for lunch. Pat was a great host. He remarked at how busy it was Friday night and apologized for being sold out of some of the soups and specials because of it. The three of us ordered a lot of different things. The fried chicken, hush puppies, French fries, and coleslaw coming out as favorites.

I politly inquiried about the save the Doyle campaign. He said said something to the effect he was amazed by the support. I didn't push for any more than that. I didn't see the rooms as I wasn't staying.

[SkeeterPee]

if you go to the go fund me page there is a long update.

https://www.gofundme.com/3bn5k5h8

[Mags]

Another dumb question...

What is the feasibility of keeping the bar and restaurant open but mothballing the rest of the place for now? Seems like the bar is the only place that seems to make money. Do even less maintenance than in the rooms now. And put the money made into the part of the place that is even somewhat profitable?

[lonehiker]

if you go to the go fund me page there is a long update.

https://www.gofundme.com/3bn5k5h8

Am I reading it correctly in that they are now looking for an additional 80k? Or was the initial amount for mortgage, back taxes, and plumbing issues, for a total of 80k?

[admirald7s]

Am I reading it correctly in that they are now looking for an additional 80k? Or was the initial amount for mortgage, back taxes, and plumbing issues, for a total of 80k?

They had wanted $80K just to do plumbing. The purpose changed to taxes/mortgage and the goal reduced to $10K at some point in the fundraising, with any leftover funds from the $10K drive (ended up being $13K raises) going towards plumbing.

[lonehiker]

The site skeeter linked has a goal of 80k and appears to be ongoing.

[admirald7s]

Right below "SAVE THE DOYLE: Help the AT Trail", it says "$13,100 of $10,000 goal". The fund raiser still likely has the original $80K in the "story" section, but the updates mention the change in goal (both purpose and amount).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[double d]

Neglect is neglect, no matter what the reason and this institution seems to need continued expensive work (I've never been to the Doyle, but I've long been informed of it by many AT hikers). But I would like to see the Doyle saved just for the simple fact that my last name is Doyle!!!!

[mweinstone]

There is a couple whom frequent the doyel.
im not mentioning names........
they are friends of mine for many years.
As are they friends of pat and miss vickey.
This wonderful woman, who has lunch there once a week .....started the site with nothing but miss vickys okay.
It was totally not miss vickys doing, or idea.
She simply said yes when asked by a most loyal couple of patrons.

[mweinstone]

Jester is a tripple crowner and my best friend.
he tells a story about a guy, a true story, who started a fundraiser site because he wanted potatoe salad.
he prommised things like recepies and even to share his potatoe salad.
He only asked for enough to make some for himself.
the kickstarter site went viral and it shot to 80 or 100 thousand dollars .

[mweinstone]

Pat once put a guy named dave up in the doyel totaly free and fed him till he got a job.
my dear friend, now " grocery dave" adored by hikers and townees alike, works at mutzys , rents an apt , and all cause pat helped him out.
Hes done it countless times.
Every winter, theres allways someone hes hellping get a start with a meal and a bed.
hes never asked a thing.

[Blue Mountain Edward]

Could sell the liquor liscense and restore the Doyle as a cheap hotel/hostel. Could not get a good room rate with shared bathrooms, no ac, no televisions and no elevator to make the rooms handicapped accessible. Or sell the liquor licence and put the for sale sign up and retire. There are plenty of hotels and bars in Pa. My final suggestion would be close for the winter, would just lose money for 3 months anyway.

[mweinstone]

A calender of the rooms the way they are would probubly go viral.

[mweinstone]

Im not at the doyel as was planned due to good things.
Max is flying home wed!
This sunday, 2 couples are comming to see my art .
My new plan is to work till sunday, sell a bunch of art on the spot to both couples get to the doyel monday and then come home wed just to fetch max back to the doyel.
So excited.
Maby this will leed to my long awaited corination as leader and supreem potentate of artworld.
Reall curious what potentate means.
Oh well.

[mweinstone]

In the event of my art selling instantly for millions, ill be in 23 the rest of my life working on the doyel.

[mweinstone]

Matthewski's dream of restoring the doyel and having gardens and a music room allways began with discovery as the next picosso.
sort of like elmer of hot springs but with less bellyfat.
The two couples coming to see my art tommorow are filthy rich.
i just restored their empty , palacious brownstone condo's ancient windows . Its huge empty walls beg for art. One of the couples, the husband owns the worlds largest pigment company.
He sells all the films and pigments to 3m.
Its hisfamilys buissness and hes under 35!
He told me they supply the green color for all highway signs in america.
His wife is an investment banker.
The other couple are their best friends.
This may be my ticket to the big leaugs.
Ive bounced this ball on this gettoes glass shrewn court for long enough.

[mweinstone]

The man told me in a bit of a whisper of importance," my fathers on the board of the museum"
He named a museum im sure folks with tv heard of.lol.
cause he lifted his eyebrows and let out a bit of a smile when he said the name of it.
as a kid restoreing portico row on 9 th and spruce with the masters, i had big dreams.
funney, this brownstone is on portico row .
Its been 40 years working to this one goal.
To be a philanthropist like my grand and mum were.
First , as i was taught, you restore one small area mear the entrance so every time you haul rubble past it or drag new lumber in by it, u are inspired.
For this project, i would simply restore the

[mweinstone]

Just the ladies only entrance to its full 1905 glory.

[mweinstone]

Injust a few hours, like wonka's golden ticket holders, my four special guests willenter into an art factory so unique, so singular in its seperatness and stuffed with candy colored works of art so wonderfull.
Like charlie bucket and grandpa joe, one special guest will be givin treasures unimaginable.
But only in exchange for enough to build me and pat his gardens.
And in the morning when i wake, i may be king of all that is art.
Or not.lol

[mweinstone]

Sold!
And their commin back for big stuff!!!
wow.
Theres two empty hooks and some hunits.
the sad part is, their commin back for my best pic.
and three others i like alot.
and one other im not sure wich they ment.
And there bringing another couple and they took lots of photos.
They went," oh wow" when i opened the door.
It was very cool.
Now i am one step closer to restoring the doyels soft ice cream machines they have in every room.

[mweinstone]

Sold!
And their commin back for big stuff!!!
wow.
Theres two empty hooks and some hunits.
the sad part is, their commin back for my best pic.
and three others i like alot.
and one other im not sure wich they ment.
And there bringing another couple and they took lots of photos.
They went," oh wow" when i opened the door.
It was very cool.
Now i am one step closer to restoring the doyels soft ice cream machines they have in every room.

[mweinstone]

This mornings save the doyel proposal:
Allow artists to create wall murals.
Realistic, historicaly acurate depictions of the history of the town and trail and community.
I will be art director and only alow responsible artists whos art increases the lure to patrons of many intrests.
Artists would pay there stay while working and only be allowed to bring non flammable materials.
With all surfaces covered in a detailed history painted realisticly, tours could be offered for donation.
eventualy money could be used to buy dilithium crystals to restart the doyels engins.

[Miel]

This mornings save the doyel proposal:
Allow artists to create wall murals.
Realistic, historicaly acurate depictions of the history of the town and trail and community.
I will be art director and only alow responsible artists whos art increases the lure to patrons of many intrests.
Artists would pay there stay while working and only be allowed to bring non flammable materials.
With all surfaces covered in a detailed history painted realisticly, tours could be offered for donation.
eventualy money could be used to buy dilithium crystals to restart the doyels engins.

If they're doing upgrades (via murals), they should be able to stay for free. And get college credit, too.

[mweinstone]

As far as seperating the sauser section( bar) from the battle bridge( rooms)....
its not recomended at the velosity were traveling into the debthole.
.....captian.

[mweinstone]

As far as seperating the sauser section( bar) from the battle bridge( rooms)....
its not recomended at the velosity were traveling into the debthole.
.....captian.

[mweinstone]

Staying for free wont fly in season when every room is full and every dollar needed. Its a short season.
The oppurtunity to paint in such a place is very appealing to the artists i seek and they would have their own finances.
im thinking of asking the rotary clubs members and or the lions club.
bets and retired artists.
Id like murals of everything spanning the ages concerning duncannon.
from a smithsonian style prehistoric panoramma to a futuruistic glimpse and every smelly hiker in between.

[mweinstone]

Todays save the doyel idea is big.
its about the town.
I can save the town.
Make it thrive.
ill need authority to take whatever measures i deem nesesary.
Here it is.
Every single person in duncannon must lie about aliens.
Say they come et night on full moons.
Make up evidence.
Create a fraud so smart and realistic, with sheer numbers of witnesses.
Everyone must agree.
The mufon fruits would clog the town with dollars forever.

[rocketsocks]

I seen Elvis there once...Duncanon, Hendrix too!

[mweinstone]

We declare duncannon a freestate commune.
squatting permmitted.
Freeloaders welcome.
Eventualy, they would attract tourists who just want a glimps of atentown.

[Miel]

They can apply for a preservation grant through this agency:

http://www.phmc.pa.gov/Preservation/Pages/default.aspx#.Vw7CVFTnWG4

[Miel]

Staying for free wont fly in season when every room is full and every dollar needed. Its a short season.
The oppurtunity to paint in such a place is very appealing to the artists i seek and they would have their own finances.
im thinking of asking the rotary clubs members and or the lions club.
bets and retired artists.
Id like murals of everything spanning the ages concerning duncannon.
from a smithsonian style prehistoric panoramma to a futuruistic glimpse and every smelly hiker in between.


OK, you're the only artist in the world who should get paid.

Precious.

[mweinstone]

Giving away art is my way of gaining entrance into artworld.
I hunt the big fish. My plan is to give art to folks in hopes that one day they may be entertaining guests and one may be a chair curator and might see my art and ....bam!

[mweinstone]

If murals of the towns history were installed by any means....
One could be a hild sledding down the stairs painted in three d so its on the steps.
Another could be a hall of hiker portrats.
And a maproom with cool maps and charts depicted.
Another room could be an astronomy mural.
And a room of edible plants and flora and fauna.
A room could be done to look like the veiw from hawk rock and one just about hiker foods.
my personal contribution would be an installation in the central stairwell over the red and white checkered floor.
Hanging by a steel cable from the kupala, a 100 lb bag of sugar with the words printed on it," DOYEL HOTEL, SWEET SPOT OF THE AT."

[rocketsocks]

Swissbob! Fastest ride on the board walk!

[mweinstone]

I love the doyel.
Is that wrong?
Its my girl.
she loves me long time.
actually, since 1975 if you can believe that.
i was 14.
Im 55.
I was born in 1961.
On march fourth.
I plan to continue marching fourth.
the peace and love i have gotten in that place surpasses all but one.
in my dreams, i live in duncannon.
In them im an artist of note .
Bank notes!

[mweinstone]

I alone will save the doyel.
Ill ask my god for the means.
Ill put her back to mint.
Ill do it.
Their will be severe and radical changes in my restoration.
For instance, every time the perfectly restored hotel door is entered, a door chime will play an exact rendition of the sound of a passageway opening in the original startrek. And the closeing," whoossht" when it closes.
also, a single m&m will be placed on every pillow each day before opening.
And there will be onions .
Each hiker will be issued an onion apon checkout.

[mweinstone]

My name is not important.
Why i am here is not important.
the facts are, i have a name, and i am here.
Today is a day, that could live in infamy.
Or not.
Max and i could easily end up at the doyel hotel in beautyfull duncannon pennsylvania.
or not.
The art patrons who came yesterday for their second time picked out more pictures they want. But they only took more photos and went home to measure and make their decisions.
So ive had a talk with my god.
We talked about how much i want max to see the town i ran away to at 14 years old in 1975.
I want my only begotten son to get a hug from two special older hippies named miss vickey and pat.
I want him to meet tater and john.
I want him to see the wonderfull gallery of artworks of mine that trailangelmary displays in her home.
My god said he was busy with hillery today and maby he would find time to send us to my beloved home in the mountains.
he prommised to at least try.

[mweinstone]

The doyel sings its sweet song in my ears..." matty come home".
But evil lurks here in filthadelphia.
Embrace me old building.
Show me your quiet.
Lend me your sound sleep.
Be my morning sun.
Oh duncannon....
You had me at a young age.
I am yours forever.

[mweinstone]

Ever eat a picinic table?
Euell gibbins once asked that in a grape nuts commercial.
As a fundraiser, i propose to eat the doyel's picinic table.
Bit by ground down bit.
I figure i can eat a pound of sawdust per day with no ill effects.( guessing)
Between may first and august 1 st i will consume the table and the two benches.
And as a bonus if the goal of a million dollars is reached, ill throw in eating the kitchen screen door.( wood only)
Its old and should chew easy.

[rocketsocks]

Ever eat a picinic table?
Euell gibbins once asked that in a grape nuts commercial.
As a fundraiser, i propose to eat the doyel's picinic table.
Bit by ground down bit.
I figure i can eat a pound of sawdust per day with no ill effects.( guessing)
Between may first and august 1 st i will consume the table and the two benches.
And as a bonus if the goal of a million dollars is reached, ill throw in eating the kitchen screen door.( wood only)
Its old and should chew easy.
Bruno dive 100 feet in to damp sponge!

[mweinstone]

When every single dingle thing i ever forsaw and predicted and modled comes tru, no one will remember my fanatical yelling out about it.
They never do.
At 10 i ran around the beach preaching the sun was burnning us and no longer just tanning our skin.
They laughed. I asked emphaticly how they couldnt notice the dieback of the forrests.
I proclaimed to any who crossed my path, that the system was broken. Both enviromentaly and spiritualy.
I suggested and pleeded for folks to give up schooling and silly persuits of buisness and industry and to imediatly get into survival mode for what i saw in detail was to come.
This led me to never vote, drive or be a student.
I chose to practice foraging and survival and became a trasher and a volenteer cause service to others was my healing.
Now, its all come to fruition. Everyone is scrambeling for the last resourses. The doyel will be a stronghold. And places like it. In the paradime to come shortly, only real skill will count and counters of paper money will be at a loss.
We must make towns like duncannon bloom with self suficency.
Many places must transform to fit the future of struggles comming.
Our duncannon can be the modle.
right down to restoring the howlitzer outfront 0post 340 of the american leigon for use as a hunting devise. Each day, we will fire it to scare up grouse and birds to catch.

[mweinstone]

The doyel is jumpin and bag of tricks is showin hiker movies. Trailangelmary is on her game bigtime and the matthewski unit may be there next!
But prolly not.
But maby.
Eventualy for sure.
Gabeesh?

[mweinstone]

Matthewski report.
The battle goes poorly.
Sold only a single picture and only at cost.
Today, oats and sardeens will fuel a new and forge a head.
Rent and bills loom like raptors.
An erie sound what is mine tummy.
but these be hiker.
No complaints.
Embraceing brutalitys nutsac.
We march on.
The doyelmust be reached.
The argo must refuel.
Today, artworld must loose a limb.
My sword a crayon.
My word a god.
Beware saten.
This ones awake.

[mweinstone]

The decision to save the doyel hotel has been rendered.
Matthewski has been chosen to make a series of extreemly sensitive vidios to post on youtube.
The choice to sacrifice a single hiker to save such an iconic symbol of americas hiking love was difficult.
i will be strapped naked to the flagpole atop the hotel to raise awareness about springer feaver .
I will only be carried down when im hypothermic and with a core temp of no greater than 87.
I will be monitored by a doctor and fire resque and will have permmisions.
My goals will be twofold. Number one to raise awareness of the horrid effects springer feaver has on the hiking populace and two, to bring dollars to duncannon citywide and turn the town into an ," occupie the dream" event.
A hardwired headset will allow me to disertate from my pole atop my perch thru speakers to the masses below.
A jumbotron will show my suffering up close and in color but only from the navel up.

[mweinstone]

The event will last 3 days and nights and be dubbed," CRUELADICTION".
The revenues from the live youtube stream will endow the towns redevelopment and be the series opener for a weekly hikerstunt show.
The second show focuses on all the hiker games i am solely responsible for introducing .
From," who can climb the smallest tree," to the all time fav," flying your tent with a kite".
Included featured games:
Sleeping bag hatmakeing
Bobenapping
Pancake frisbee
Beer grotto grabber construction
Tree galleries
Man made structure break
Speed drinking
Trail gremlining
Licorice hairball construction
and many more matty antics.

[rocketsocks]

I'll cut off a tow for 100 dallors...3 for 5 and I'll throh in a pair of Injiin tow socks (as i won't be needin' 'em no more) all proseeds for the Doyle.

[Jack Tarlin]

Wow. I cannot believe the positively viciousness and ugliness of some of the recent posts. So let's try it again: The proprietors of the Doyle are absolutely wonderful people who have performed countless acts of kindness for thousands of hikers, including cutting people slack on their rooms, providing work-for-stays when they really didn't need the help, etc. I daresay they've done a helluva lot more for the A.T. community over the years than have the nasty mean-spirited people sniping at them over the room decor, or the owners' business acumen, or whatever. If you want to help out here, that's great! If you don't, well that's fine, too, but please keep the ugliness and negativity to yourself, it doesn't belong here. These posts reflect much more poorly on the folks who feel the need to post them than they do on their intended target. Lots of people over the years have commented on how downright mean and ugly this website can be sometimes. There are all too many posts on this thread who prove these comments correct, and some recent posters should be positively ashamed of themselves. So please, folks, let's try and upgrade this thread, it could use it.

[rocketsocks]

How recent we talkin' here? :D

[mweinstone]

Baltimore jack just said what i was thinking but couldnt spell.
The snip is quite out of place.

[rocketsocks]

Well I'd tell a best "snipe snipe snipe" joke, but don't think y'all find it funny either...oh brother.

[mweinstone]

Bruno may snipe. He is one of our own . Jack ment the idiot who said i should go volenteer to help the doyel instead of just talking the talk.
everyone and there mother knows i never volenteer but rather , mooch my way down trails.
And, i was flagged from the doyel after stealing all sorts of supplys and for climbing up the fire escape and sleeping in rooms free and for generally bein a dick to the owners and i grafittied their car . Alot.
But then i went to jail for it all and paid my debt to duncanno.
Last week when i got released from jail, i vowed to bring the town to its knees rambo style but opted for just squatting their dump.
So now i live off them and mooch alot and they accept it.

[mweinstone]

Every year i do a teeny weeny work project at the doyel. Just to try and get laid basicly.
Never works but i look good fakeing being a volenteer.
Once i fake screened 33 windows with fake screening and a fake staple gun.
Another time i fake linolium floored the two bathrooms.
And also i fake painted 7 rooms, opened two that were non functional , rehung windows, painted the entrance, vestibule, bothe bathrooms upstairs, installed a new kitchen sink spiggot two different times, bought bath rugs, washcloths and food stuffs, installed four smoke alarms, rebuilt the sink fawcett cold water, rebuilt the kitchen drain, cleaned the stairwell 12 times,rebuilt the window in24, mucked the roof, took out trash 100 times, replaced the urinal flusher, made 30 into a changing room, demoed curtys furniture and bed to the trash when he died and restored his room and one thousand other jobs over 40 years.
but all fake.
Just tryin to find a chick.
Never worked so far.
But hey, the doyel needs its walkin cooler rebuilt.......
Anything could happen

[mweinstone]

Matthewski's dream woman.
By mat.
My dream woman is only intrested in a man whos addiction and fun is being of servise to others.
Who understands his first love is his son and his misstress is the doyel hotel and his conqubine , room 23.
This woman also would only ever be able to have any fun at all being of service to others.
And she would be filthy rich.
And slightly short.
And she would want a man who is good at fixing stuff and who is a bible freak.
Her man would have to like weird crap and he would have to do alot of dreaming.
She would be smart and super educated and only ever eat onions. Ever.
This is why im alone.

[rocketsocks]

Fourm a corpation, it's done all the time. Get 50 people to put up some dough and buy the jernt, you could stay in room 237for a couple years just rodeoian the coupins.

[Secondmouse]

hmmm gabba gabba hey!...

this is your brain on drugs...

[Secondmouse]

what's the latest on this, did they make it? seems they did - here's Portage's trail journal who went through there just a couple days ago.

gotta warn ya, not very favorable... http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=532399

[greeter]

To me this is another example of the pernicious effects of "property tax". It's not really a tax because it is leveed without taking into consideration whether the tax payer has the money to pay it. No other form of taxation works this way. If you have no or little income, you pay no tax. If you don't buy anything, same. Retirees lose homes they "own" (no mortgage, paid off) to this tax which can go up if your neighbor builds a big house and the retirees' are reappraised higher. If the hotel makes money they pay income tax, too. We need to get rid of this archaic system based on the landed gentry of England before the days of income tax (a much more fair source of communal revenue, IMO). I stayed at the Doyle and got a sense of its former glory. Maybe if there had been no property tax the place could have been kept up all along.

[-Rush-]

To me this is another example of the pernicious effects of "property tax". It's not really a tax because it is leveed without taking into consideration whether the tax payer has the money to pay it. No other form of taxation works this way. If you have no or little income, you pay no tax. If you don't buy anything, same. Retirees lose homes they "own" (no mortgage, paid off) to this tax which can go up if your neighbor builds a big house and the retirees' are reappraised higher. If the hotel makes money they pay income tax, too. We need to get rid of this archaic system based on the landed gentry of England before the days of income tax (a much more fair source of communal revenue, IMO). I stayed at the Doyle and got a sense of its former glory. Maybe if there had been no property tax the place could have been kept up all along.

Add it to the list my friend.

[SWODaddy]

To me this is another example of the pernicious effects of "property tax". It's not really a tax because it is leveed without taking into consideration whether the tax payer has the money to pay it. No other form of taxation works this way. If you have no or little income, you pay no tax. If you don't buy anything, same. Retirees lose homes they "own" (no mortgage, paid off) to this tax which can go up if your neighbor builds a big house and the retirees' are reappraised higher. If the hotel makes money they pay income tax, too. We need to get rid of this archaic system based on the landed gentry of England before the days of income tax (a much more fair source of communal revenue, IMO). I stayed at the Doyle and got a sense of its former glory. Maybe if there had been no property tax the place could have been kept up all along.

No arguments here...at the root of it, you don't really "own" property, the government just makes you think you do.

[nehiker]

To me this is another example of the pernicious effects of "property tax". It's not really a tax because it is leveed without taking into consideration whether the tax payer has the money to pay it. No other form of taxation works this way. If you have no or little income, you pay no tax. If you don't buy anything, same. Retirees lose homes they "own" (no mortgage, paid off) to this tax which can go up if your neighbor builds a big house and the retirees' are reappraised higher. If the hotel makes money they pay income tax, too. We need to get rid of this archaic system based on the landed gentry of England before the days of income tax (a much more fair source of communal revenue, IMO). I stayed at the Doyle and got a sense of its former glory. Maybe if there had been no property tax the place could have been kept up all along.

Have you heard of market externalities? Private actions (by individuals and companies) can bring benefits to others for which the private entity is not rewarded/compensated by the market and can carry costs to others which are not borne by the private entity. Taxes are in principle intended to remedy this, though they have long been politicized.


There are costs to others of your owning a house/land. What these costs are depends on the location and has nothing to do with whether someone has paid off their mortgage. This is why farming/ranching is done in rural and often more remote areas. Someone owning a house in San Francisco means someone else has to compute to work. This obviously creates immediate costs to the latter, reduces his productivity (thus costs to his company and society), and adds to pollution (cost to the society). Duncannon is no SF, but there are still costs involved in providing services
(such as roads, police, fire, etc.).