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Lnj
03-14-2016, 13:01
I'm sorry, but I have a rant. It simply must be said, even if it is taken down immediately thereafter, I will feel better.

May I ask why so many people on here respond to whatever question is being asked with "If you learn how to search..." or "look it up", or "there are 1000 threads on this already is you search for it".? I have two points to make on why this drives me nuts, and then I will effectively shut up and sit down.

1.) Personally, I only peruse WB during the day, killing in-between time at work, and I have read many other posters say the same. With that said, I don't have countless hours on my hands. Just a few minutes here and there to find the answer to a question I have. This is a forum/site designated for serious hikers, whether it be thru-hikers, section hikers or weekend warriors or even wanna be's, so it stands to reason that if I go on to this site and ask a question of all the many many, what I would consider "authorities" on the subject, that I am IN FACT searching, and looking it up. I am going to the place where many pros congregate to chat about what I want to know about. I consider coming to this site the very act of "looking it up". Why must I dig down to the first grain ever sprouted on a subject to get a respectful answer? Not only do people answer with "look it up", but they are often quite rude about it. Why is that?

2.) If it is only acceptable to ask a question and have it discussed thoroughly just one time on this site, then how is this site even still alive? I am sure if one were to search, every question that can be dreamed up has already been asked and answered at some point before here. Every thought that can be thought has been expressed. Every opinion represented. For those of you who have been on here for years and have thousands of posts, do you seriously expect to come here and read something fresh and new? For those people who have hiked the AT over and over, do you plan to come here and learn something now? Surely not. This keeps going because there are new people with old questions and view points that want answers to old questions from the people who truly know what the heck they are talking about. If that isn't true, then just publish a "whiteblaze book" of questions and answers once and for all and close the site down.

3.) Again, for the hikers who have hiked the AT over and over and a hundred other trails, known and unknown, if you are not coming on here to help the "baby hikers" then what do you hope to achieve? Your wisdom and knowledge is invaluable to us all and we are so glad you are here, but not if you eat our face off for asking what you deem to be a stupid question or a question that has already been answered before. When people behave that way it strips the of their value to the WB community and they just become an antagonist. What's the point?

Rant concluded. I am done.

rafe
03-14-2016, 13:13
Hi Lnj. My feeling is that blogs ought to be used to discuss or inform on matters that can't be easily found via Google or other printed or online references. Or to discuss items that are inherently subjective. So if someone asks, for example, how far is it from NOC to Fontana, I'm not going to belittle that person, but I'm not going to go out of my way to help either. I think it's reasonable to have done a bit of research on one's own before asking others to educate them. There are vast resources available these days, online or at Amazon or one's favorite bookstore. Anyone seriously thinking of a long hike ought to do some basic research before asking questions that have been answered a thousand times over.

The site may educate newbies, for sure, that ought to be part of the mission. But if there's not enough to keep the old-timers interested, they'll drift away, and who'll be left to educate the newbies?

Just my two cents, anyway.

Old Grouse
03-14-2016, 13:21
That’s fair comment. It certainly would be nice if WB members in general had as much patience as some demonstrate. This actually strikes home for me. My wife is quick to remind me that she’s a “Yale-trained problem solver,” but she’s loveably inept at concocting a simple inquiry on Google and she’s made a habit of just asking me the answers to things I couldn’t possibly know. To which I often reply, “I don’t know…you could Google it,” but then end up doing so myself in frustration.

Rain Man
03-14-2016, 13:24
So, Lnj, you don't think describing for someone who is legitimately searching how to accomplish their goal is a decent thing to do? Or are you ranting over style, not substance. Or both. Or, just in a foul mood.

To me, it's a balancing act, both in substance and style. I answer lots of "newbie" questions on WB, and many not so newbie, plus I post my own.

But ... when it appears someone is simply being totally lame and lazy and telling the rest of us to "jump" for them? I'm not so sure it's unfair to direct them to the nearest lake to "jump" into.

I actually learned a Google search function from someone describing to a questioner how to find their answer, by using the "site:whiteblaze.net" command. I appreciated their sharing their wisdom.

Ever hear of the adage "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime"?

Now, if you're ranting about style, and how snippy or snarky some such "helpful" posts are, just let it go. There are some of those, yes, but don't sweat the small stuff.

dudeijuststarted
03-14-2016, 13:25
Until the mods indicate that system maintenance has become too expensive to introduce duplicate threads, I say "post away." Everything about the hiking industry, and the trails themselves, changes every year. It makes sense to ask questions pertinent to the times. I'd hope experienced hikers are coming here to assist hopefuls. As in any internet forum, there will be the grumpy types.

colorado_rob
03-14-2016, 13:36
Until the mods indicate that system maintenance has become too expensive to introduce duplicate threads, I say "post away." Everything about the hiking industry, and the trails themselves, changes every year. It makes sense to ask questions pertinent to the times. I'd hope experienced hikers are coming here to assist hopefuls. As in any internet forum, there will be the grumpy types.Agree, well said. Post away! I too am slightly annoyed, most of the time, when people answer with the statement: "Just do a Forum search".

On the other hand, some beginner questions are so poorly worded and incomplete... it does tax patience sometimes...

Roamin
03-14-2016, 13:52
First, I value the opinion of the seasoned hiker and the experienced poster. They have knowledge I can only hope to gain one day. I read many thread for the enjoyment and the sound advice. I also agree there are plenty of sources of information available to us such as Google and Amazon. WB should be commended for bringing together all of the hikers and information it has. I have not found another single source with such a wealth of information.

However, I too think the “learn to search” response is just inappropriate. I have received that sage response myself. I was tempted to give an eloquent reply, but thought better of it.

I have looked through the pages of content on WB. I find some of the organization to be non-intuitive. Therefore, I do not find some of the information I am looking for. I hope that as I move around the site more, I will learn its organization and be able to better navigate the site.

I do use the WB search function. I have found the search engine to be inadequate. My recent search for shuttles in Rockfish Gap, VA area garnered me 52 pages of responses for me to look through, covering all AT states and almost all conceivable topics. I was forced to start another tread asking for the information. I am sure I will get the “learn to search” reply for asking the question.

The “learn to search” response is just poor form. I assume any question asked was searched for and the answer not located. If you are offended that someone asked a question which, in your opinion, could be searched for, show some courtesy and don’t answer, just move on.

illabelle
03-14-2016, 14:01
Lnj,
I actually enjoyed your rant. I found it quite entertaining. :)
Like you and a few others, I dislike the "look it up, ya lazy bum" responses. I've learned that if somebody asks a "dumb" question, and I don't feel like answering, well guess what, I don't have to. Better to ignore a question than to treat people with contempt.
It's easy to assume that everybody knows how to navigate and conduct themselves online, but that's just not true. Courtesy, respect, and giving people the benefit of the doubt don't cost a thing, but they're worth a lot.

Deadeye
03-14-2016, 14:12
Many of us will "say" things with our keyboard that we wouldn't say in person, or at least can't say it the same way we might verbally, and it comes across as mean-spirited. Guilty. I'd rather answer someone that can't or won't use the search feature than someone who can't or won't decide for himself what socks to wear.

MuddyWaters
03-14-2016, 14:24
The reason for encouraging searches for common topics, is someone will get far more information or opinions, and get it immediately, than a single post will get them over a couple of weeks.

Its in the posters best interest as well because of this.


This sites search is the worst Ive ever seen, but google does a good job.


Some questions are so obvious and easy to determine, its clear a poster has made zero attempt to find an answer .

Lnj
03-14-2016, 14:32
I guess I was just saying that looking here, on the WB and asking a host of experienced people about something they know without having to event blink an eye of think hard is in itself a form of "looking it up". Just rename yourself Google. I agree that if it bugs you that a question was thrown out to the hiking world in general and not you personally, just click on and ignore it. It's the insulting, disrespectful and snide responses that I don't like or understand. But my rant is done and yes, I do feel much better now. :p

And to answer Rain Man, I suppose it is truly a combo of all 3: style, substance and I have been in more tolerant moods.

Slo-go'en
03-14-2016, 15:20
It does get a bit old and tiresome answering the same stupid questions again and again and again. Especially questions where the answer is readily found with minimal searching, just buying a guide book, or visiting links on the WB home page. But it's a lot easier just to ask the question and get 50 different answers.

I've been thinking of changing my user name to "tour guide" :)

QiWiz
03-14-2016, 15:24
" Maybe life isn't about avoiding the bruises. Maybe it's about collecting the scars to prove we showed up for it." - Priseller.

I like your quote. Here's another: "Suffering builds character. The more I suffer, the more of a character I become." - QiWiz

In terms of your "rant", I always have the option of responding or not to another's post. If I see something that seems to indicate the poster did not even bother to do some basic looking around before posting, IMO, I always have the option of letting the post go unanswered. No need to be annoyed.

Offshore
03-14-2016, 15:27
OP raises some good issues. Is this an information board? If so then is there really a need to repeat the same basic information with each new class of thruhikers or new section or dayhikers? Probably not the most efficient means of information distribution. Besides, a board layout is really a suboptimal format for a reference work. Add to that a lot of specific information offered is form secondary sources. The truth is that one is actually is better off doing their own research and getting first-hand information from manufacturer/park/ATC/trail maintainer sites.

That leaves us with a place for opinions. A message board is a great format for that - but personally, I really don't care. I just don't have the time to slog through 100+ page treads on Jurek littering and CSI Whiteblaze - Inchworm Edition, or the saga of BSP. Besides, a lot of regulars here seem to be better trolls than hikers. Add to the mix the healthy population of those that view themselves as the elder statesmen and who are often wrong but never in doubt, and it gets old fast. Then next group of players are certain moderators who are quick to shut down members or threads for no other reason that they may disagree with an opinion.

I've been spending less and less time on WB and have not renewed my donor status because the more I learn, the less relevant the site seems to be. There are a lot of great members (and even some moderators), but its a lot to slog through to get any new information or interesting commentary of personal value. My suggestion to the OP is to look at the special interest subreddits on Reddit.

Offshore
03-14-2016, 15:29
OP raises some good issues. Is this an information board? If so then is there really a need to repeat the same basic information with each new class of thruhikers or new section or dayhikers? Probably not the most efficient means of information distribution. Besides, a board layout is really a suboptimal format for a reference work. Add to that a lot of specific information offered is form secondary sources. The truth is that one is actually is better off doing their own research and getting first-hand information from manufacturer/park/ATC/trail maintainer sites.

That leaves us with a place for opinions. A message board is a great format for that - but personally, I really don't care. I just don't have the time to slog through 100+ page treads on Jurek littering and CSI Whiteblaze - Inchworm Edition, or the saga of BSP. Besides, a lot of regulars here seem to be better trolls than hikers. Add to the mix the healthy population of those that view themselves as the elder statesmen and who are often wrong but never in doubt, and it gets old fast. Then next group of players are certain moderators who are quick to shut down members or threads for no other reason that they may disagree with an opinion.

I've been spending less and less time on WB and have not renewed my donor status because the more I learn, the less relevant the site seems to be. There are a lot of great members (and even some moderators), but its a lot to slog through to get any new information or interesting commentary of personal value. My suggestion to the OP is to look at the special interest subreddits on Reddit.

Apologies for typos. No donor status = no ability to edit...

rocketsocks
03-14-2016, 15:30
I guess I was just saying that looking here, on the WB and asking a host of experienced people about something they know without having to event blink an eye of think hard is in itself a form of "looking it up". Just rename yourself Google. I agree that if it bugs you that a question was thrown out to the hiking world in general and not you personally, just click on and ignore it. It's the insulting, disrespectful and snide responses that I don't like or understand. But my rant is done and yes, I do feel much better now. :p

And to answer Rain Man, I suppose it is truly a combo of all 3: style, substance and I have been in more tolerant moods.
A man goes to the doctor with pains and says "doc, when I touch my knee, it hurts" Doctor checks his knee. Then the man says "and when I touch my elbow, it hurts" the doctor checks his elbow. Then the man says "and when I touch my chin, it hurts" the doctor says "wait a minute...lemme see that finger, your fingers broke"

moral of the story: get a job that allows you more search time. :D

rocketsocks
03-14-2016, 15:36
I look at it like this. This community of AT enthusiasts is an active one, there are no less than 120 people on line during the day, the search engine sucks, so ask away and hope you get a hit, more times than not you will. Like people the board has a mood that's ever changing, sometimes it's foul, sometimes it comes together with the bonds of a fierce family...don't take this stuff to seriously, it's helpful to be able to brush stuff off.

Han Sobo
03-14-2016, 15:54
You can see I have a low post count just joined the other day.

I have done some research but there is not a whole lot of the info I need.. Plenty info I don't think I am needing. Most which requires me to try to read in reverse and refer to entries previous to the one I am on for an accurate calculation to get the same info.

I have to say that in one day here not just posting threads of which I have done one. I have learned more then all my other efforts combined. I have also seen a small few members who in the act of being helpful can be very judgmental. Hey that's humanity we all do it. Some more then others.

Its definitely more handy if they post you up a link but some guys (not a sexist comment) just like to say something just to get their 2 cents in even if its a "well look it up" or "good luck with that" comment. Even with my low post count I too have been getting the cranky vibe from a couple posts.. One which I doubt even read my original post. I cant honestly call those sort of posters 'trolls'. They probably have had some other folk just rub them wrong and they sorta combine the next few similar posts in the same light of their judgement. (as a guess)

Thing is you skim that stuff away and you get some very helpful people here.

Looking at the number of people online, members, and guests we are bound to get a bit of all the color spectrum.

You might try this if you get a "look it up" answer, ask if they can direct you to a link. Google is very funny where you can take three words and depending which one is first middle and last you can get some extremely varied results. The wee bit of sarcasm and negativity I have seen has over all been well worth just holding my breathe for a minute or two, come back in an hour and most likely the less irritable, more patient and understanding members will have helped you out.

We are all human in that things can change like the weather as far as our outlook and general attitude.

Ps: There is a member already named Google :D

Jack Tarlin
03-14-2016, 16:00
While we're on the subject of how we can best help the new folks, I want to say this: I've talked with dozens of this year's hikers in various places in North Carolina and Tennessee, and I frequently ask them where they mainly went to for planning and preparation info for their hikes. The good news is that so many, if not virtually all of them, mentioned Whiteblaze. The not-so-good news is that a great many of them expressed dismay at how they were greeted here.......more folks than I can remember said that at times, they were made to feel ignorant, silly, or outright stupid. Instead of getting direct answers to direct questions, all too often they were hectored and lectured to by a not very helpful old-timer. I've met a ton of 2016 folks who said they felt intimidated here, and then in many ways, WB can be very tough, even unfriendly to new folks. So please, remember that we were ALL newbies once upon a time, we all had a zillion questions, and yeah, some of them might have appeared to be obvious or foolish. But the main purpose of this site is to share knowledge, experience, and useful information, especially to folks new to the world of long-distance hiking. So even if a question has appeared scores of times before, take the time, if you want, to answer it as best you can.......and as nicely as you can, too.

Malto
03-14-2016, 16:54
in an ideal world:
1) there would be an easy to search database of the 101 most commonly asked questions.
2) there would be a format to ask many questions such as "How long will it take me to hike the Ga section?" Without any context that is an impossible to answer question. Another financial site that I visit has a very specific format that results in MUCH more productive answers.
3) there would be a betters search function.

But, it is an imperfect world so the same questions get asked lacking the context to give a good answer. More more rant. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BEST ANYTHING! So stop asking, rant over. :)

skinnbones
03-14-2016, 17:04
Here is a question that may have never been asked before; How come when I hike my local trails all the squirrels speak to me with a British accent?

Uncle Joe
03-14-2016, 17:14
Good rant! The thing is the people that post short, kurt, and pointless responses have no reason to respond at all except to be kurt and pointless. You literally have to select a post to read it. If you have nothing constructive to say then leave.

mrcoffeect
03-14-2016, 17:26
Here is a question that may have never been asked before; How come when I hike my local trails all the squirrels speak to me with a British accent?
We no longer make our own squirrels, it is cheaper to import them.

Sarcasm the elf
03-14-2016, 17:51
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BEST ANYTHING! So stop asking, rant over. :)

Sure there is, and I already own it*.


*I will be glad to provide further gear advice to anyone who will sends me a notarized affidavit attesting that they will agree with my definiton of "best" :D

Puddlefish
03-14-2016, 17:58
Eh, I figure it's a community thing. People enjoy giving advice, people enjoy getting a personalized answer, it brings them together. Often there are previously explored nuances to answers, that open up a new line of discussion. I'm new enough to backpacking/camping that often that repeat thread will teach me something I hadn't even considered asking about before.

If I notice a topic has been beaten to death within the last week, I'll often just add a link to the previous topic. When I do search, and want a small clarification, I don't really want to raise a thread from death.

kenl
03-14-2016, 18:01
I like the rant. My experience in "posting away" has been that most people are willing to help and the few that aren't or post an obnoxious response, so be it. And sometimes even those are enjoyable! In reality I've found the hiking community and the majority of people involved on this forum to be incredibly helpful. It's certainly way better than any cross-section of the average population. And for that I'm thankful and appreciative.

Safe hiking.

Puddlefish
03-14-2016, 18:04
Here is a question that may have never been asked before; How come when I hike my local trails all the squirrels speak to me with a British accent?

My father's wife speaks squirrel too! I've seen her in the yard yelling at them. I try not to get involved.

Secondmouse
03-14-2016, 19:28
I'm sorry, but I have a rant. It simply must be said, even if it is taken down immediately thereafter, I will feel better.

May I ask why so many people on here respond to whatever question is being asked with "If you learn how to search..." or "look it up", or "there are 1000 threads on this already is you search for it".? I have two points to make on why this drives me nuts, and then I will effectively shut up and sit down.

1.) Personally, I only peruse WB during the day, killing in-between time at work, and I have read many other posters say the same. With that said, I don't have countless hours on my hands. Just a few minutes here and there to find the answer to a question I have. This is a forum/site designated for serious hikers, whether it be thru-hikers, section hikers or weekend warriors or even wanna be's, so it stands to reason that if I go on to this site and ask a question of all the many many, what I would consider "authorities" on the subject, that I am IN FACT searching, and looking it up. I am going to the place where many pros congregate to chat about what I want to know about. I consider coming to this site the very act of "looking it up". Why must I dig down to the first grain ever sprouted on a subject to get a respectful answer? Not only do people answer with "look it up", but they are often quite rude about it. Why is that?

2.) If it is only acceptable to ask a question and have it discussed thoroughly just one time on this site, then how is this site even still alive? I am sure if one were to search, every question that can be dreamed up has already been asked and answered at some point before here. Every thought that can be thought has been expressed. Every opinion represented. For those of you who have been on here for years and have thousands of posts, do you seriously expect to come here and read something fresh and new? For those people who have hiked the AT over and over, do you plan to come here and learn something now? Surely not. This keeps going because there are new people with old questions and view points that want answers to old questions from the people who truly know what the heck they are talking about. If that isn't true, then just publish a "whiteblaze book" of questions and answers once and for all and close the site down.

3.) Again, for the hikers who have hiked the AT over and over and a hundred other trails, known and unknown, if you are not coming on here to help the "baby hikers" then what do you hope to achieve? Your wisdom and knowledge is invaluable to us all and we are so glad you are here, but not if you eat our face off for asking what you deem to be a stupid question or a question that has already been answered before. When people behave that way it strips the of their value to the WB community and they just become an antagonist. What's the point?

Rant concluded. I am done.

this has been done before...

Pringles
03-14-2016, 22:16
It doesn't always pertain, but another reason to answer a question "yet again" is that the answers change. Since Whiteblaze began, the "best" stove, tent, water treatment/filter have all gone through a lot of changes. Hostels have come and gone, shelters have gotten older or replaced, AYCE places have closed (gasp), and the trail has been relocated. People ask about water at a particular site and get verbally clobbered because someone answered that last year... But the person asking may be a section hiker who is relatively sure they couldn't make it to the next water source if that one doesn't have a flowing stream. It's a legitimate question. If you ask a question and someone gets huffy, smile and hike on to the next answer. Maybe their feet hurt... . Sooo, let's talk about how long cheese lasts on the trail. :-)

Dogwood
03-15-2016, 00:12
Don't mistake WB for a forum full of hiking gurus or "pros" each able to answer any and all questions posed. No forum works like that! WB should not be perceived as a one stop one shop Dial Up A Hiking Answer Hotline having an unquestioned monopoly on hiking accuracy or "HIKING TRUTH." I strongly advise you don't perceive WB that way. This also applies to one poster, one post, or one thread. I don't assume WB to be my personal one on one immediate I want it now and I don't have time to obtain the information in any other fashion forum either! One might think of WB as another tool, a resource,...

Umm, none of us which includes myself have endless hrs to ask questions or provide answers either. Your time is no more valuable than my time as a precious in demand resource. The goal is to obtain TARGETED information we seek in a somewhat timely fashion but that does NOT always entail obtaining it immediately. That is sometimes easy to forget in this often impatient easily offended intolerant coddled I want it now demanding culture. WE do not want to be impatient, rude, and over bearing in this process. Many of us expect questioners to demonstrate proactive behavior that assists in this process. If one is truly seeking answers, open to counsel, sometimes it takes more than one knock on the door before the door is opened and only after a multitude of counselors are considered are plans established. When I've frankly told someone to "do a search here on WB" nine times out of ten it's because I sincerely want the questioner to be connected to specifically targeted answers to their question(s) that can add to the breathe of an answer. I'm saying this because I know there is great info on other STRONGLY RELATED or LIKE threads...other counselors that could and probably should be considered. No one thread or post or person can do it ALL for you ALWAYS. This is why I often provide links to various info that I think contributes to answering questions.

fiddlehead
03-15-2016, 06:33
Sometime I spend a lot of time typing up an answer.
Like my AT bear story.
It's a long one, but the bear questions get asked a lot.
So, I'm not going to type it up again.
if you can't look it up, you'll probably get your answer by asking again, but you ain't gonna learn everything that's going on.
(i have posted it twice, about 3 years apart)

Traveler
03-15-2016, 07:07
I don't believe I have seen many questions asked that were answered with a handful of curt "do a search" responses and nothing more. Typically responses range from the "do a search" type to very detailed responses. Complaining about one type of response among a variety of others that offer information is a bit baffling, take the responses that one is looking for and use them. Ignore the rest.

Would there be the same rant if asking a guy reading a paper at a train station what time the train to East Frogpuddle leaves and he just points to the master departure list showing all the trains and their destinations.

BonBon
03-15-2016, 07:53
We have this topic come up from time to time on the professional site Im on (for work) I have gone back and forth between being annoyed with some of the basic questions and then feeling a pay it back responsibility. I keep telling myself that when I was new and enthusiastic (and tender), I asked a lot of dumb newbie questions and was treated very kindly most of the time. Now I am one of the older members on that site and its my turn to be the helpful positive person I got lucky enough to find back in the day. And the site I am on is 99% women. The mean comments on this site are NOTHING like what you get in a room full of competitive entrepreneurial women. Meow.

Marta
03-15-2016, 09:41
I am always amazed by people who read threads they should know by the title will annoy them, and then further waste their time by responding. If the question of how far Rock Gap Shelter is from Winding Stair Gap has no interest for you, don't read the thread.

If you're feeling grumpy and inclined to snap at people, push back from the keyboard and go for a walk.

(BTW, I'm speaking as an individual here, not expressing an official WB position.)

Ktaadn
03-15-2016, 10:13
Sure there is, and I already own it*.


*I will be glad to provide further gear advice to anyone who will sends me a notarized affidavit attesting that they will agree with my definiton of "best" :D
Sorry, they just came out with something new and improved. It also costs more than it used to.

Ktaadn
03-15-2016, 10:17
I understand that people come here for advice and I have certainly learned a lot, but people asking what the weather will be in a certain place at a certain time is a big pet peeve of mine.

Weather.com is just so obvious.

Harrison Bergeron
03-15-2016, 13:51
If not for newbies we'd never have anything to talk about.

Lnj
03-15-2016, 14:51
LOL!!!

Thanks all! This is has been great fun.:p:bse

illabelle
03-15-2016, 15:14
If not for newbies we'd never have anything to talk about.

Ain't that the truth! :D

nsherry61
03-15-2016, 16:07
If you're going to be curt about an OP needing to do a search of the site instead of just asking the question to the community, I say, pull your arrogant fingers out and add a couple of curt examples of threads that you suggest the OP searches. In other words, don't just be a jerk, be an informative jerk!

ScottishLass
03-15-2016, 16:22
"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything."

I agree with LNJ and the rant.

If an experienced hiker feels a question doesn't deserve an answer, just don't answer.

Posting some abrupt reply such as, "Look it up" is wasting your time and energy that you could expend doing something else.

skater
03-15-2016, 19:41
Just as you were in a mood to rant, sometimes each of us is. WB has so many knowledgeable people actively engages that, statistically, there is always somebody having one of those days, and they just have to vent. Forgive us. We don't mean to rant, but sometimes it just comes out. Do your best to review the available information, then ask away.

HDLV
03-15-2016, 20:21
I agree with you. If a new member try's searching with the WB search bar for something like "lightweight backpack" something a noob would be very likely to look up they'd be lucky to find a single matching topic on the first page. People are used to using google where if you type something in the search bar it just shows up. The fact that you have to leave this site to do a special search with Google to find something here is completely unintuitive and I would not expect a new member to figure that out. They may have their mind occupied by something like changing their entire life by going on a thru hike. I'm a New Yorker and I think a lot of people's responses here are rude. Now, I've never experienced this rudeness first hand but I'm disappointed when I see it directed at someone who is simply trying to learn something.

Smoky Spoon
03-15-2016, 23:37
Very eloquently put....having been someone who was on the receiving end of a few folks who delighted in comments nothing short of mean spirited or outright pathetic I really feel for new folks who come on here and get blasted or snarky replies to look it up.

The truth is, most newcomers come on here super excited about hiking....usually a thru hike but as anyone new to something they are intimitated that they do not know enough on the subject even though most have probably read voraciously on the subject. Hey, it's a new thing and a bit scary, heading out into the woods living with only what you carry on your back, relying on yourself to handle any emergency that might crop up....etc. But that excitement, that thought of being able to finally live your dream...it's intoxicating. So you log on to what most would consider a site dedicated to thru hiking and asks all those questions that keep you awake at night even after months of research.

Truth is, we probably already know the answer, we have read it a thousand times in our reserach, but we ask anyway, why? Because we are looking for reassurance, and no one can reassure you about a thru hike as well as a site dedicated to hiking, especially thru hiking. So naively we log on, ask our question and then bam! Out come the cyber hikers who are jealous you are getting to do the one thing they will never do....and suddenly all that excitement, all that adrenaline and every second you spent obsessively thinking of your thru hike comes crashing down around you, all your confidence drops out from underneath you and you find yourself questioning how can people who seemed to be so magical, so free spirited that they dared to live freely and wild on a trail turn out to be so hateful? And you sit there stunned....numb...and you feel as if that dream is slipping away...

But then something else also happens, a few, a kind and truly dedicated few who have made that awe inspiring hike bestow upon you their wisdom they earned over their many years of hiking....and then those callous, mean spirited and snarky comments that made your eyes well with tears begin to fade from your memory the moment you hear someone like Water Rat post Welcome to WB! And others post their sage snippets of hiking widsom, you realize, wow, this site is full of amazing hiking resources.....Coming here was a good idea after all....and if you are really lucky you might even make some amazing friends...

I am sorry the feedback you received was mostly negative, I admit I understand their feelings all too well....and I admit more than once I too ranted like the OP. But I also admit, some of the real advice I did get truly has helped me....and for that I will always be grateful and try to look at this site as more positive than negative.




While we're on the subject of how we can best help the new folks, I want to say this: I've talked with dozens of this year's hikers in various places in North Carolina and Tennessee, and I frequently ask them where they mainly went to for planning and preparation info for their hikes. The good news is that so many, if not virtually all of them, mentioned Whiteblaze. The not-so-good news is that a great many of them expressed dismay at how they were greeted here.......more folks than I can remember said that at times, they were made to feel ignorant, silly, or outright stupid. Instead of getting direct answers to direct questions, all too often they were hectored and lectured to by a not very helpful old-timer. I've met a ton of 2016 folks who said they felt intimidated here, and then in many ways, WB can be very tough, even unfriendly to new folks. So please, remember that we were ALL newbies once upon a time, we all had a zillion questions, and yeah, some of them might have appeared to be obvious or foolish. But the main purpose of this site is to share knowledge, experience, and useful information, especially to folks new to the world of long-distance hiking. So even if a question has appeared scores of times before, take the time, if you want, to answer it as best you can.......and as nicely as you can, too.

rafe
03-16-2016, 00:02
I've often wondered "what makes hikers tick" and about the personality traits of hikers, particularly thru-hikers. It seems to me that most folks who show up at Springer (or Katahdin) for a thru hike -- even if they ultimately don't make it -- have a fair stock of ego, or if you prefer, "gumption." It makes sense, right? Nobody even tries to do such a thing unless or until they've worked up a certain amount of self-confidence and a sense that they at least might make it.

So, maybe best to think of the occasional snark as a bit of hazing. If you're gonna make it on the trail, you need to roll with the punches, emotional and physical. Occasionally a newb shows up with just a bit too much of that self-confidence, and the natural instinct is to challenge it.

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 00:21
Why is your natural instinct to challenge it? As for myself, not a lot of confidence, sort of hoping the trail helps me get that back.




I've often wondered "what makes hikers tick" and about the personality traits of hikers, particularly thru-hikers. It seems to me that most folks who show up at Springer (or Katahdin) for a thru hike -- even if they ultimately don't make it -- have a fair stock of ego, or if you prefer, "gumption." It makes sense, right? Nobody even tries to do such a thing unless or until they've worked up a certain amount of self-confidence and a sense that they at least might make it.

So, maybe best to think of the occasional snark as a bit of hazing. If you're gonna make it on the trail, you need to roll with the punches, emotional and physical. Occasionally a newb shows up with just a bit too much of that self-confidence, and the natural instinct is to challenge it.

rafe
03-16-2016, 00:40
Why is your natural instinct to challenge it? As for myself, not a lot of confidence, sort of hoping the trail helps me get that back.

Because I've been there. I've had the trail beat me down many times. When I hear folks espousing what I feel is an excess of bravado or a naive or romantic view of long distance hiking, I challenge it. Who knows, I might be saving them a more serious disappointment down the road. Or at least getting them to think about the less glamorous side of the thing.

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 00:58
By any chance were you ever in the military? You remind me a lot of this guy in one of the hiking books I read....In Beauty May She Walk? It was about an older hiker who dreamed of hiking the AT her whole life, she was a professor from Ohio State and finally got to hike the trail. When she did, she met this young guy from the military, he took over her hike and most of the book ended up being about how she hiked that hike his way instead of hers....and he ended up dating her daughter.
Decent book, a little preachy....but you do remind me of him. He was certain that because she had a romantic view of the trail she was incapable of doing it. Then he ordered her not to hike Katahdin. Said he was certain she was incapable. She proved him wrong. She finished the trail and summited that mountain, happily.
Women tend to process romantically, men tend to think their way is the right way and they police everyone. Myself? I have always followed my own path, which admittedly is usually against the grain of everyone else.
I have never tried to discourage anyone from pursuing their dream, if they achieve it, good for them, it they didn't, then they probably did not want it bad enough, but just because I been in a place I think they are in does not give me the right to try and knock them down a few pegs. I get more enjoyment seeing people succeed, not fail, especially because of me. As for serious disappointment, life hands everyone that already, we do not need to help it along nor do we have the right to. Just my opinion....



Because I've been there. I've had the trail beat me down many times. When I hear folks espousing what I feel is an excess of bravado or a naive or romantic view of long distance hiking, I challenge it. Who knows, I might be saving them a more serious disappointment down the road. Or at least getting them to think about the less glamorous side of the thing.

rafe
03-16-2016, 02:11
If you want that dream badly enough, Ms. Smoky, my rants and scrawlings on the Internet aren't going to stop you. I am one voice among many, and you're free to ignore it.

The fact remains, most folks who attempt a thru hike don't make it to the end. That's not to say you shouldn't try.

Excluding injuries, running out of money, family emergencies and such, when hikes fail it's because expectations did not match reality. So, having a grasp of reality would seem to be useful.

MuddyWaters
03-16-2016, 06:37
"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything."

I agree with LNJ and the rant.

If an experienced hiker feels a question doesn't deserve an answer, just don't answer.

Posting some abrupt reply such as, "Look it up" is wasting your time and energy that you could expend doing something else.

But the rant IS the opposite of " just say nothing"

You only believe it, when it suits you apparently.

Most people are normal and just ignore people they dont agree with.

Some get their panties in a bunch when they disagree with others and continuously argue.

If anything here bothers someone, they need to look in mirror first.

Education lies in the friction between opinions.

Silencing others opinions because someone disagrees.....is not right. No matter what hollow reasoning is put forth as a reason or doing so.

rickb
03-16-2016, 06:40
If you want that dream badly enough, Ms. Smoky, my rants and scrawlings on the Internet aren't going to stop you. I am one voice among many, and you're free to ignore it.


Most people crave validation.

If a person new to the trail asks about dogs (for example) and an old-timer (trail hero?) shares his opinion on how many dogs behave and how tough the Trial can be on the dog, he may FEEL harangued. Even intimidated.

But everyone is not so good with this word-smithing. Better that old-timer share his wisdom than not, I think.

One of the great things about Whiteblaze is that there are so many people participating that no one person or block of people dominate or force any singular point of view.

Could it be hurtful for a person to hear that not everyone thinks about thier dogs, or their heart-felt generosity handing out snack are good for the Trail? Of course. Does one person's opinion on gear or yellow blazing have the potential to make someone feel bad? Yes.

It does.

And we should all remember that.

But Rafe is exactly right-- and the characterization about him rather off base. ironically (am I using the word correctly, probably not) such personalized comments are the only times I think people really step over the line.

Strong ideas and free flowing opinions is tricky to manage, but ultimately worth it-- even if they are not always validating.

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 13:18
I respectfully disagree. I think most new people are seriously looking for answers to real questions they are not feeling so secure about. They either need reassurance on those questions that they are on the right track, or they discover a whole new answer to consider. It's not really validation they are seeking per se, more like reassurance they are understanding something correctly.

As for feelings being hurt about a dog or a particular set of gear, and blazes, seriously? People actually get their feelings hurt over something so trivial? Please, there are so many worse things out there to be getting your feelings hurt about.

Jack posted his feedback from new hikers experiences regarding this site. They were not flattering. I merely second that I had very similar experiences and two of those experiences in fact came from you and rafe. You were two of them that jumped on the bandwagon of "let's be mean to this one'. I can in fact name every person who did, and my research has shown me the same usual suspects always jump in and give their two cents of their opinion of the OP without actually answering their questions in any way.

Where in those type of experiences is that productive or useful in anyway for the person hiking the AT? Do you want to know the conclusion my editor and those who are working with me came to because of this behavior? Two things became apparently clear. The myth of hikers being sage, kind and a carefree bunch willing to defy the rules of society to live life on their terms is just that, a myth. And a site supposedly so rare that it really is geared towards truly helping new hikers learn the ropes instead of being like any other typical social media site where the trolls and bullies prey upon any one they resent or feel jealous of does not actually exist. Trail magic might happen on the trail but it does not exist anywhere on WB with the rare exception of a few individuals who reach out and actually answer the OP's questions without insulting them in any way.

Because of my experiences on this site alone, my editor has provided me with a series of questions she wants me to find answers to....an example of one..."When being given 'trail magic' on the trail does it come with sarcasm and rudeness like this site does?" Her example given: Say someone is standing alongside a road that the trail passes and they are handing out apples to hikers, something not unheard of for trail magic, does that person hand the apple to you and say something like, "I brought this for you because I know you were not smart enough to consider having fresh fruit in your diet when you decided to undertake this god forsaken trip."

To be honest, I thought it was a joke. Turns out, she is completely serious. And she got that just from reading comments from people on this site towards me.

As for my chracterization about rafe, whether flattering or not came from his own admission that he delibrately challenges people because he feels he has the right because he has been where they are. He has the right to purposely step all over other people's dreams just because the trail beat him down many times? And he justfies it by saying he may be saving them from disappointment? isn't that what the trail is supposed to do? Challenge you? Give you disappointment while hiking it so you can learn from that disappointment and come out stronger? More experienced? Read the book I mentioned and then try explaining to me how I am wrong on my assessment of rafe.

You mentioned the word ironic, you are in fact correct, it is highly ironic that you think people using such personalized comments are over stepping the line. Sadly I wish you could of came to that conclusion earlier when you decided to take it upon yourself and jump on that bandwagon with others of hurling insult after insult towards me in our earlier dealings.

And it was not rafe who said that he thought managing the insults and strong opinions are worth it to find good advice amongst those rare few individuals who actually DO answer the questions posed by the OP, that was me, I said, and I quote, "The real advice I did get truly has helped me and for that I will always be grateful and try to see this site as positive rather than negative."

Old Grouse
03-16-2016, 13:48
Let's try it this way:

You leave Shelter X in the morning and four miles later you meet a hiker coming the other way. He or she asks you how the water supply is at Shelter X. What's your response likely to be? Are you going to answer politely, or snarl, "Don't ask me, walk the four miles and see for yourself!"

Puddlefish
03-16-2016, 13:57
I love thread drift.

Text based communications is tougher. In real life you quickly identify the people who ask for advice, but are in fact seeking validation of their terrible choices. It's harder to recognize those people on the internet.

Example: I'm thinking about buying a used Ford Focus with known engine troubles, from that shady dealer down the street with a 12% loan! What do you think!?

Real life answer: Did you already buy it, and are hoping I'll tell you that you were smart? You already did, I can tell. I'm sorry for your loss.

Internet answer: You can look forward to the engine exploding within a month, the replacement engine will cost as much as the car, and will have the same fatal flaw, Ford won't care, the junkyard will charge you for towing instead of paying you for the scrap, and you'll be paying way too much interest on a car you don't even have anymore. I'm sorry for your loss.

Very often people don't get the answers they were hoping for. Often they'll get conflicting answers, or the answer will expose some aspect of their question as being self serving, or that they hadn't considered, or just from a very different viewpoint based on life experiences.

You have to remember that you're asking a very diverse group of strangers on the internet, it's unrealistic to expect universal adoration and support. Two people can read that book and get two very equally valid morals from the story based on their life experiences.

rafe
03-16-2016, 14:25
Smoky, I so enjoy hearing stories about your editor. ;)

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 14:52
Thand you for making my point. In your sample question you ANSWERED the question both times. One with kindness and one not so much. But you still ANSWERED it. My point and the point of the OP is that most of the time someone gives an insult or the flip 'look it up' and do not actually answer the question being asked.

I can take an insult, I have proven that. But what is frustrating is when giving an insult at least one could try to actually answer the question posed.




I love thread drift.

Text based communications is tougher. In real life you quickly identify the people who ask for advice, but are in fact seeking validation of their terrible choices. It's harder to recognize those people on the internet.

Example: I'm thinking about buying a used Ford Focus with known engine troubles, from that shady dealer down the street with a 12% loan! What do you think!?

Real life answer: Did you already buy it, and are hoping I'll tell you that you were smart? You already did, I can tell. I'm sorry for your loss.

Internet answer: You can look forward to the engine exploding within a month, the replacement engine will cost as much as the car, and will have the same fatal flaw, Ford won't care, the junkyard will charge you for towing instead of paying you for the scrap, and you'll be paying way too much interest on a car you don't even have anymore. I'm sorry for your loss.

Very often people don't get the answers they were hoping for. Often they'll get conflicting answers, or the answer will expose some aspect of their question as being self serving, or that they hadn't considered, or just from a very different viewpoint based on life experiences.

You have to remember that you're asking a very diverse group of strangers on the internet, it's unrealistic to expect universal adoration and support. Two people can read that book and get two very equally valid morals from the story based on their life experiences.

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 14:53
Oh I am sorry, does this mean you are going to take your toys (advice) and go home....��




Smoky, I so enjoy hearing stories about your editor. ;)

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 14:54
Good analogy....




Let's try it this way:

You leave Shelter X in the morning and four miles later you meet a hiker coming the other way. He or she asks you how the water supply is at Shelter X. What's your response likely to be? Are you going to answer politely, or snarl, "Don't ask me, walk the four miles and see for yourself!"

Puddlefish
03-16-2016, 15:05
Thand you for making my point. In your sample question you ANSWERED the question both times. One with kindness and one not so much. But you still ANSWERED it. My point and the point of the OP is that most of the time someone gives an insult or the flip 'look it up' and do not actually answer the question being asked.

I can take an insult, I have proven that. But what is frustrating is when giving an insult at least one could try to actually answer the question posed.

The point I was making is that no one is necessarily trying to insult you. In real life, we know the person we're talking to and can tailor an answer to their specific needs. On the internet, we just give an honest answer, and sometimes the questioner gets offended for some reason the answer-er can't even fathom.

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 15:27
I can appreciate that you actually believe what you are saying, but trust me, when I have asked questions in the past the answers I received were insults, NOT ANSWERS PERTAINING to any of the questions I asked. Seriously, I was shocked and you would be too. One post literally said I was a miserable person and another said i was the most hated person on this site and a third said my writing was terrible and I could not write a book for the life of me. No where in those responses was there an actual answer to the question I asked. And when I pointed that out Puddle Fish I was answered with more insults and still no answer to my question asked.

Jack said similar experiences were relayed to him, all those people having the same experience? Seems to me I am not the only one who understands what an insult is and not the only one who believes more than one was intentional.

And sometimes the answer-er gives an insult that the OP cannot fathom.




The point I was making is that no one is necessarily trying to insult you. In real life, we know the person we're talking to and can tailor an answer to their specific needs. On the internet, we just give an honest answer, and sometimes the questioner gets offended for some reason the answer-er can't even fathom.

rafe
03-16-2016, 15:59
Apropos giving advice on the trail...

A couple of summers ago I found myself descending Mt. Mansfield (VT) early one Sunday morning, after having the entire ridgeline to myself. A few minutes down off the ridge I encountered the first hikers coming uphill. Inevitably one would ask, "how much further to the top?" You know the drill. So, to the first few, I'd give encouragement since I knew they were just minutes from being done. Continuing downhill over the next couple of hours, I was asked same the question again and again, I knew my estimates were less and less useful so after a while I'd just say something vague like, "Oh, it's a ways, yet." Most folks got the hint and grinned back. There were dozens and dozens of hikers coming uphill.

Not far from the bottom, a family group came by huffing and puffing and a little girl in the group, maybe eight or ten years old, looked at me crossly, with hands on hips and demanded, "Just how high is this mountain?" The best I could come up with was, "It's very, very high." Perhaps not the most diplomatic response, but an honest one. What else could I say?

Five Tango
03-16-2016, 16:40
Sadly,I have had people tell me privately that they are surprised at the attitudes on this site and are reluctant to pose questions or comments for fear of being flamed.Fact.

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 20:22
I think you said the truth. And you said it kindly.




Apropos giving advice on the trail...

A couple of summers ago I found myself descending Mt. Mansfield (VT) early one Sunday morning, after having the entire ridgeline to myself. A few minutes down off the ridge I encountered the first hikers coming uphill. Inevitably one would ask, "how much further to the top?" You know the drill. So, to the first few, I'd give encouragement since I knew they were just minutes from being done. Continuing downhill over the next couple of hours, I was asked same the question again and again, I knew my estimates were less and less useful so after a while I'd just say something vague like, "Oh, it's a ways, yet." Most folks got the hint and grinned back. There were dozens and dozens of hikers coming uphill.

Not far from the bottom, a family group came by huffing and puffing and a little girl in the group, maybe eight or ten years old, looked at me crossly, with hands on hips and demanded, "Just how high is this mountain?" The best I could come up with was, "It's very, very high." Perhaps not the most diplomatic response, but an honest one. What else could I say?

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 20:24
Agreed. I too have had this same issue said to me privately and it has been repeated a lot publicly. So sad as this could be a superbly useful site to all hikers.



Sadly,I have had people tell me privately that they are surprised at the attitudes on this site and are reluctant to pose questions or comments for fear of being flamed.Fact.

rickb
03-16-2016, 20:34
Agreed. I too have had this same issue said to me privately and it has been repeated a lot publicly. So sad as this could be a superbly useful site to all hikers.

It kind of is.

Did you set a date for your thru hike?

Smoky Spoon
03-16-2016, 20:58
Yes I have. I am leaving soon, for safety reasons I will not give out my exact date online publicly, but it is soon. I already paid for my plane ticket, I have my room at the Falls At The Lodge already book and am using Ron's Shuttle Service on here to pick me up at the airport and he will be picking up my fuel tablets ahead of time, as well as take me to sign in at the register at the park and then to the lodge. The next day he will pick me up and take me to the forest service road where the trail officially begins. I will be using a different trail name as well for safety reasons considering the hostility shown to me by some on here, my spouse and editor both insisted on it since I will be a female hiking alone.

For anyone needing shuttle service I highly recommend Ron, i have used him before, he is a great human being and very professional, personable and he is reliable.

Are you going out this year?

As for this site being useful, yes it kind of is at times, as I said before, I will always try to see this site as more positive than negative, and I do tell people to try and overlook the meanies. If they can do that then this site is a wealth of insightfulness for hiking, gear and especially thruhiking.



It kind of is.

Did you set a date for your thru hike?

rickb
03-16-2016, 21:06
Yes I have. I am leaving soon, for safety reasons I will not give out my exact date online publicly, but it is soon. I already paid for my plane ticket, I have my room at the Falls At The Lodge already book and am using Ron's Shuttle Service on here to pick me up at the airport and he will be picking up my fuel tablets ahead of time, as well as take me to sign in at the register at the park and then to the lodge. The next day he will pick me up and take me to the forest service road where the trail officially begins. I will be using a different trail name as well for safety reasons considering the hostility shown to me by some on here, my spouse and editor both insisted on it since I will be a female hiking alone.

For anyone needing shuttle service I highly recommend Ron, i have used him before, he is a great human being and very professional, personable and he is reliable.

Are you going out this year?

As for this site being useful, yes it kind of is at times, as I said before, I will always try to see this site as more positive than negative, and I do tell people to try and overlook the meanies. If they can do that then this site is a wealth of insightfulness for hiking, gear and especially thruhiking.

Congrats on putting your plan into action. No long hike on the horizon for me, but plenty of short ones with my wife, to be sure.

Not sure we define meanies I the same way-- there are many kinds of diversity.

imscotty
03-16-2016, 21:37
Let's face it. The Whiteblaze search function is useless. Of course you can search the site using Google, and I often do this myself. But to those who take offense to Noob questions, just skip on pass them if you don't want to take part. People come here to discuss, and a little patience would go a long way to making this a more welcoming site.

Traveler
03-17-2016, 07:27
This seems a little overblown in regard to assuaging a bruised set of feelings caused by a curt "look it up" response among dozens of informational responses. Apparently some folks are hypersensitive to curt answers, to the point "editors" now want to hoist the issue for whatever commercial interest there is in doing that, using surrogates to post their ridiculous scenarios designed to inflame and create an atmosphere that is far larger than actually exists.

If all one is looking for are nurturing answers or comments, full of positive affirmations and confidence building statements, they exist in great volume with most any thread on this forum. If all one is looking for are examples of curt or less than encouraging responses, they exist in most any thread as well, albeit in smaller percentage. If a dream or goal is so easily snuffed out due to a curt response or a challenge to an opinion that should be more carefully thought through from a relative stranger on an open forum, its not much of a dream or goal. One cannot accomplish much in life without internal drive to move past these small issues, there are far larger issues that will challenge these individuals than an off hand remark regardless what the pursuit is.

Much ado over not much more than left handed responses. If there are problems with these, life itself must be difficult to say the least.

lonehiker
03-17-2016, 10:21
This seems a little overblown in regard to assuaging a bruised set of feelings caused by a curt "look it up" response among dozens of informational responses. Apparently some folks are hypersensitive to curt answers, to the point "editors" now want to hoist the issue for whatever commercial interest there is in doing that, using surrogates to post their ridiculous scenarios designed to inflame and create an atmosphere that is far larger than actually exists.

If all one is looking for are nurturing answers or comments, full of positive affirmations and confidence building statements, they exist in great volume with most any thread on this forum. If all one is looking for are examples of curt or less than encouraging responses, they exist in most any thread as well, albeit in smaller percentage. If a dream or goal is so easily snuffed out due to a curt response or a challenge to an opinion that should be more carefully thought through from a relative stranger on an open forum, its not much of a dream or goal. One cannot accomplish much in life without internal drive to move past these small issues, there are far larger issues that will challenge these individuals than an off hand remark regardless what the pursuit is.

Much ado over not much more than left handed responses. If there are problems with these, life itself must be difficult to say the least.

This is a good post.

Boo-Yah
03-17-2016, 12:40
Amen! Preach it brother


I'm sorry, but I have a rant. It simply must be said, even if it is taken down immediately thereafter, I will feel better.

May I ask why so many people on here respond to whatever question is being asked with "If you learn how to search..." or "look it up", or "there are 1000 threads on this already is you search for it".? I have two points to make on why this drives me nuts, and then I will effectively shut up and sit down.

1.) Personally, I only peruse WB during the day, killing in-between time at work, and I have read many other posters say the same. With that said, I don't have countless hours on my hands. Just a few minutes here and there to find the answer to a question I have. This is a forum/site designated for serious hikers, whether it be thru-hikers, section hikers or weekend warriors or even wanna be's, so it stands to reason that if I go on to this site and ask a question of all the many many, what I would consider "authorities" on the subject, that I am IN FACT searching, and looking it up. I am going to the place where many pros congregate to chat about what I want to know about. I consider coming to this site the very act of "looking it up". Why must I dig down to the first grain ever sprouted on a subject to get a respectful answer? Not only do people answer with "look it up", but they are often quite rude about it. Why is that?

2.) If it is only acceptable to ask a question and have it discussed thoroughly just one time on this site, then how is this site even still alive? I am sure if one were to search, every question that can be dreamed up has already been asked and answered at some point before here. Every thought that can be thought has been expressed. Every opinion represented. For those of you who have been on here for years and have thousands of posts, do you seriously expect to come here and read something fresh and new? For those people who have hiked the AT over and over, do you plan to come here and learn something now? Surely not. This keeps going because there are new people with old questions and view points that want answers to old questions from the people who truly know what the heck they are talking about. If that isn't true, then just publish a "whiteblaze book" of questions and answers once and for all and close the site down.

3.) Again, for the hikers who have hiked the AT over and over and a hundred other trails, known and unknown, if you are not coming on here to help the "baby hikers" then what do you hope to achieve? Your wisdom and knowledge is invaluable to us all and we are so glad you are here, but not if you eat our face off for asking what you deem to be a stupid question or a question that has already been answered before. When people behave that way it strips the of their value to the WB community and they just become an antagonist. What's the point?

Rant concluded. I am done.

BrianLe
03-17-2016, 12:50
IMO a great approach would be for an extensive FAQ to be developed for WB, perhaps hierarchical by categories, with each FAQ question and response(s) having a unique URL. Then a responder could reference this as baseline stuff, something discussion could build on without feeling the need to reprise a whole lot of basic discussion. Perhaps the FAQ responses could in turn link to extensive relative threads for those that want to dig deeper. Technologically this is quite easy to do, and with a community this size it wouldn't be difficult to come up with volunteers to do the work. Or (and?) the wiki approach could be used perhaps to just crowdsource much of the work.

Quite some time ago I helped build the PCT FAQ on Postholer (http://www.postholer.com/faq.php). Some FAQ entries are relatively simple to create, but many are not insofar as there are different approaches to backpacking issues, different opinions and styles, so if the wiki approach isn't used, the person or small group responsible for a given FAQ entry needs (MUST IMO) be sensitive to this, to give fair play to widely held views that they personally don't utilize.

Then if someone asks, for example, "What's the best starting date for an AT thru-hike" or "Can I bring my dog on the PCT", or "What's the best stove" or ... etc ... a response could start out with a FAQ link or two and discussion could proceed from there if the FAQ response wasn't plenty enough of an answer already.

What I particularly like about this is that if excellent FAQ entries resulted over time, folks looking for basic info could often get it right away, without waiting and hoping for a reply that might or might not be of real help to them.

Smoky Spoon
03-17-2016, 13:11
This post is what is overblown, to blatantly disregard another's feelings is not only rude and callous but to do so publicly makes one wonder, why? I mean if you thought the OP was overblown then why comment in such length and volume yourself? Seems much ado about something you consider nothing....




This seems a little overblown in regard to assuaging a bruised set of feelings caused by a curt "look it up" response among dozens of informational responses. Apparently some folks are hypersensitive to curt answers, to the point "editors" now want to hoist the issue for whatever commercial interest there is in doing that, using surrogates to post their ridiculous scenarios designed to inflame and create an atmosphere that is far larger than actually exists.

If all one is looking for are nurturing answers or comments, full of positive affirmations and confidence building statements, they exist in great volume with most any thread on this forum. If all one is looking for are examples of curt or less than encouraging responses, they exist in most any thread as well, albeit in smaller percentage. If a dream or goal is so easily snuffed out due to a curt response or a challenge to an opinion that should be more carefully thought through from a relative stranger on an open forum, its not much of a dream or goal. One cannot accomplish much in life without internal drive to move past these small issues, there are far larger issues that will challenge these individuals than an off hand remark regardless what the pursuit is.

Much ado over not much more than left handed responses. If there are problems with these, life itself must be difficult to say the least.

Smoky Spoon
03-17-2016, 13:15
Want to know what is so great about your post? You ACTUALLY offer solutions.....huge thank you. So wish others would take your mature and resourceful attitude.




IMO a great approach would be for an extensive FAQ to be developed for WB, perhaps hierarchical by categories, with each FAQ question and response(s) having a unique URL. Then a responder could reference this as baseline stuff, something discussion could build on without feeling the need to reprise a whole lot of basic discussion. Perhaps the FAQ responses could in turn link to extensive relative threads for those that want to dig deeper. Technologically this is quite easy to do, and with a community this size it wouldn't be difficult to come up with volunteers to do the work. Or (and?) the wiki approach could be used perhaps to just crowdsource much of the work.

Quite some time ago I helped build the PCT FAQ on Postholer (http://www.postholer.com/faq.php). Some FAQ entries are relatively simple to create, but many are not insofar as there are different approaches to backpacking issues, different opinions and styles, so if the wiki approach isn't used, the person or small group responsible for a given FAQ entry needs (MUST IMO) be sensitive to this, to give fair play to widely held views that they personally don't utilize.

Then if someone asks, for example, "What's the best starting date for an AT thru-hike" or "Can I bring my dog on the PCT", or "What's the best stove" or ... etc ... a response could start out with a FAQ link or two and discussion could proceed from there if the FAQ response wasn't plenty enough of an answer already.

What I particularly like about this is that if excellent FAQ entries resulted over time, folks looking for basic info could often get it right away, without waiting and hoping for a reply that might or might not be of real help to them.

Smoky Spoon
03-17-2016, 13:16
Congrats on the triple crown, very impressive.




IMO a great approach would be for an extensive FAQ to be developed for WB, perhaps hierarchical by categories, with each FAQ question and response(s) having a unique URL. Then a responder could reference this as baseline stuff, something discussion could build on without feeling the need to reprise a whole lot of basic discussion. Perhaps the FAQ responses could in turn link to extensive relative threads for those that want to dig deeper. Technologically this is quite easy to do, and with a community this size it wouldn't be difficult to come up with volunteers to do the work. Or (and?) the wiki approach could be used perhaps to just crowdsource much of the work.

Quite some time ago I helped build the PCT FAQ on Postholer (http://www.postholer.com/faq.php). Some FAQ entries are relatively simple to create, but many are not insofar as there are different approaches to backpacking issues, different opinions and styles, so if the wiki approach isn't used, the person or small group responsible for a given FAQ entry needs (MUST IMO) be sensitive to this, to give fair play to widely held views that they personally don't utilize.

Then if someone asks, for example, "What's the best starting date for an AT thru-hike" or "Can I bring my dog on the PCT", or "What's the best stove" or ... etc ... a response could start out with a FAQ link or two and discussion could proceed from there if the FAQ response wasn't plenty enough of an answer already.

What I particularly like about this is that if excellent FAQ entries resulted over time, folks looking for basic info could often get it right away, without waiting and hoping for a reply that might or might not be of real help to them.

Dogwood
03-17-2016, 17:44
This seems a little overblown in regard to assuaging a bruised set of feelings caused by a curt "look it up" response among dozens of informational responses. Apparently some folks are hypersensitive to curt answers, to the point "editors" now want to hoist the issue for whatever commercial interest there is in doing that, using surrogates to post their ridiculous scenarios designed to inflame and create an atmosphere that is far larger than actually exists.

If all one is looking for are nurturing answers or comments, full of positive affirmations and confidence building statements, they exist in great volume with most any thread on this forum. If all one is looking for are examples of curt or less than encouraging responses, they exist in most any thread as well, albeit in smaller percentage. If a dream or goal is so easily snuffed out due to a curt response or a challenge to an opinion that should be more carefully thought through from a relative stranger on an open forum, its not much of a dream or goal. One cannot accomplish much in life without internal drive to move past these small issues, there are far larger issues that will challenge these individuals than an off hand remark regardless what the pursuit is.

Much ado over not much more than left handed responses. If there are problems with these, life itself must be difficult to say the least.

Sanity. It's making a choice to be offended or not. Some facets of U.S. culture believe they have the constitutional right that others are obligated not to be perceived as ever being offensive.

rickb
03-17-2016, 18:23
Sanity. It's making a choice to be offended or not. Some facets of U.S. culture believe they have the constitutional right that others are obligated not to be perceived as ever being offensive.

If for no other reason, threads like these are good reminders that some people have very different life views than those we think make sense.

I liked this take by Bret Easton Ellis (from a few years ago) but I suppose some would find issues with it.

http://www.vanityfair.fr/culture/livre/articles/generation-wuss-by-bret-easton-ellis/15837

Smoky Spoon
03-17-2016, 22:39
I am impressed, that is the shortest answer I have ever seen you write. Keep that up and your reputation as the man who loves to hear his self speak will be ruined old friend. ;)

How have you been? Have heard from you in a while?




Sanity. It's making a choice to be offended or not. Some facets of U.S. culture believe they have the constitutional right that others are obligated not to be perceived as ever being offensive.

Smoky Spoon
03-17-2016, 22:46
Or some just have more common sense than others. And manners. Common sense and manners are not entitlements, they are examples of class and education. I loved that article too and sort of thought it could be applied to you and rafe....I see you are no longer "the oracle's" groupie but now rickb's? Are you ever going to stop playing follow the leader and just start leading on your own?

I can recommend a few books on how to man up if you want....:p




If for no other reason, threads like these are good reminders that some people have very different life views than those we think make sense.

I liked this take by Bret Easton Ellis (from a few years ago) but I suppose some would find issues with it.

http://www.vanityfair.fr/culture/livre/articles/generation-wuss-by-bret-easton-ellis/15837

Puddlefish
03-18-2016, 01:42
Or some just have more common sense than others. And manners. Common sense and manners are not entitlements, they are examples of class and education. I loved that article too and sort of thought it could be applied to you and rafe....I see you are no longer "the oracle's" groupie but now rickb's? Are you ever going to stop playing follow the leader and just start leading on your own?

I can recommend a few books on how to man up if you want....:p


As some famous dead guy said. "When calls for manners are used as a bludgeon to silence dissent, the end result – and often the goal – is precisely the opposite of civility."

Dogwood
03-18-2016, 01:56
It's GOOD to enjoy hearing yourself, is it not? :p I have a lot of good things to communicate.

Isn't that part of a healthy self esteem?

Don't we all need to remind ourselves with our own words at times? You're a writer. Wouldn't you say that applies to your writing - you hearing yourself - you heeding your communication?

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 02:15
Well now there are writers and there are writers...we both know my only claim has been that of being a technical research writer who got real lucky and was offered a way to pay for her dream. But they know the deal, and if they really want me to take this trip and pay for it and my gear, i am not going to complain. Hey they put me up at the lodge, you think I can afford that on a regular basis? As a man who talks a lot about saving money, I am sure you can appreciate one not passing up a deal like that.

As for healthy self-esteem, what's the old saying? Anytime you think you have self confidence just Google yourself or log onto a social media sites and watch how quickly it dissipates? LOL

Seriously, how have you been? I have not heard from you in a while. And took your advice, i tried out the chia...daily part of my breakfast now. In fact I will be eating it on the trail.







It's GOOD to enjoy hearing yourself, is it not? :p I have a lot of good things to communicate.

Isn't that part of a healthy self esteem?

Don't we all need to remind ourselves with our own words at times? You're a writer. Wouldn't you say that applies to your writing - you hearing yourself - you heeding your communication?

rickb
03-18-2016, 06:43
Well now there are writers and there are writers...we both know my only claim has been that of being a technical research writer who got real lucky and was offered a way to pay for her dream.


As a professional writer, do you plan on telling the friends you make and the people you meet that you are doing a book? And perhaps even more importantly what the premise of the book set forth by your editor might be?

I understand that travel writers don't normally do that -- and masters of thier craft like Bryson and Paul Thereoux would not have the same interactions if they did -- but the relationships one builds on the Trail are unique.

Have you given any thought to that?

Dogwood
03-18-2016, 10:20
I'd be amiss if I sought to obtain my identity from any social media site.


Glad you're eating the chia. Have you tried shelled hemp seed in the morning cereal. Loads of nutrition especially non animal protein and good fats. No you don't catch a buzz from eating it.

Old Grouse
03-18-2016, 12:16
Excuse me for interrupting. Talk about thread drift - boy has this one gone to a different place!

rocketsocks
03-18-2016, 13:31
Well now there are writers and there are writers...we both know my only claim has been that of being a technical research writer who got real lucky and was offered a way to pay for her dream. But they know the deal, and if they really want me to take this trip and pay for it and my gear, i am not going to complain. Hey they put me up at the lodge, you think I can afford that on a regular basis? As a man who talks a lot about saving money, I am sure you can appreciate one not passing up a deal like that.

As for healthy self-esteem, what's the old saying? Anytime you think you have self confidence just Google yourself or log onto a social media sites and watch how quickly it dissipates? LOL

Seriously, how have you been? I have not heard from you in a while. And took your advice, i tried out the chia...daily part of my breakfast now. In fact I will be eating it on the trail.maybe try some prunes in your diet, I think yer startin' to back up a bit.

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 14:02
We have already been over this.....in all my other posts. You keep asking the same questions again and again, not very original are you rickb? Must be why you are always the follower....I am not a professional writer, i am not a travel writer, i am a research writer who just lucked out. I never asked to write it, they knew I wanted time off for the trip and asked me to do it. In my honest opinion it will read as too technical as that is how I write. But they are fine with that, they said they can have someone assist me with it if they feel it is too technical. Why does it bother you so much with what I do? With what I post? Why do you always come to my post and feel the need to insult me? Don't you have a wife? A life?
I have given plenty of thought to much of this book. And honestly it has turned out to be a pain in the behind thus far but my editor keeps telling me to plug away, that all writers struggle and then I remind her I am not that kind of writer, I do research, and let the real writers do the writing. Her reply is that I need to trust her, as she is good at her job. Then she rolls her eyes and says,"Well hell just look at it this way, you are getting paid to live your dream and we bought you new gear....why would you walk away from that?"
And that is what I am doing, remembering I am getting paid for this, they bought my airfare, paid for me stay at the lodge and I got new gear! As for any relationships I make on the trail, they are not going into the book, why would they? It's not about relationships on the trail, it's about the trail in and of itself. I do not live for other peoples opinions, i live my life my way, so any relationships I make on the trail are that just, my relationships.






As a professional writer, do you plan on telling the friends you make and the people you meet that you are doing a book? And perhaps even more importantly what the premise of the book set forth by your editor might be?

I understand that travel writers don't normally do that -- and masters of thier craft like Bryson and Paul Thereoux would not have the same interactions if they did -- but the relationships one builds on the Trail are unique.

Have you given any thought to that?

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 14:03
Uh oh, did I step on someone's toes? No worries sweetheart, I am happily married.....




maybe try some prunes in your diet, I think yer startin' to back up a bit.

Dogwood
03-18-2016, 14:36
Excuse me for interrupting. Talk about thread drift - boy has this one gone to a different place!

Well, SS is in the house. Par for the course. Next we'll be discussing UL purple colored energy efficient female sex toys applicable to UL backpacking. :D:p
Gotta hand it to ya SS. That was the most extreme WB thread topic I've ever cum across. I still think about that thread. :rolleyes:

rafe
03-18-2016, 14:44
Not going to write about the relationships or the people you met? How odd. But not surprising given your announcement ages ago that you really don't like people all that much. Maybe you can come up with some original prose about the trees and rocks and roots, then. But that does get old after a while. Doesn't sound all that interesting to me.

rocketsocks
03-18-2016, 15:10
Uh oh, did I step on someone's toes? No worries sweetheart, I am happily married.....
Just cause I don't have feet is no reason to take a cheap shot at me.

rickb
03-18-2016, 16:52
We have already been over this.....in all my other posts. You keep asking the same questions again and again, not very original are you rickb? .

OK, in other words I should "look that up".

Back on topic, I guess.

As for me asking that question before, I sincerely think you are mistaken-- though my memory is not what it once was.

FWIW, I have taken to revisiting some of my posts from many years back-- it's interesting to see one's self from this perspective. Highly recommended!

rocketsocks
03-18-2016, 17:42
OK, in other words I should "look that up".

Back on topic, I guess.

As for me asking that question before, I sincerely think you are mistaken-- though my memory is not what it once was.

FWIW, I have taken to revisiting some of my posts from many years back-- it's interesting to see one's self from this perspective. Highly recommended!ive read back as well, and sometimes can't figure just what the heck I was talkin' about.

rafe
03-18-2016, 17:46
ive read back as well, and sometimes can't figure just what the heck I was talkin' about.

talking bout your g-g-g-generation

rocketsocks
03-18-2016, 18:21
talking bout your g-g-g-generationdont try ya dig what we all s s saaaay.

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 19:32
You know I said it before, the one thing you and I both agreed on was HOW LONG:banana that thread had life! Never really thought it would last as long as it did. And it was interesting......oh, not purple colored energy efficient, after all isn't that the point of that particular "exercise" is to expend a wee bit of energy? And alas, it was pink not my favorite color but did have the best "buzzing" output. :sun

Back to an earlier question....never tried the hemp....but do love the chia in organic Greek yogurt...now on the trail it of course has to be in the cream of wheat...also organic....a girl does have to watch she puts inside her body after all!




Well, SS is in the house. Par for the course. Next we'll be discussing UL purple colored energy efficient female sex toys applicable to UL backpacking. :D:p
Gotta hand it to ya SS. That was the most extreme WB thread topic I've ever cum across. I still think about that thread. :rolleyes:

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 19:40
You remembered! Does this mean I am unforgettable?:-?

Yeah I am not much into people....well some people and no that is not a dig at you. Truth be told, I find "debating" with your a bit fun, you are fun to rile and you do enjoy the challenge of good conversation. Shucks most people take their toys and go home way before you did....at least you played for a while.

And I agree, the books about peoples relationships.....so boring. But the Trail....well now....you will just have to wait and see if I can make that interesting. :rolleyes:



Not going to write about the relationships or the people you met? How odd. But not surprising given your announcement ages ago that you really don't like people all that much. Maybe you can come up with some original prose about the trees and rocks and roots, then. But that does get old after a while. Doesn't sound all that interesting to me.

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 19:44
My apologies....so no goose down booties from Zpack then huh?




Just cause I don't have feet is no reason to take a cheap shot at me.

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 19:51
Do not have to go too far back....editor has all of them for me, she said some thing about using them as teasers for the book and an unusual way to do a foreward. Not so sure how that would work but then again she is the boss lady not me.

And we can venture off topic....you mentioned before taking your wife on some trips? Is she a regular hiker? Or is she new? Has she done a long distance hike before? I am asking this in complete sincerity.



OK, in other words I should "look that up".

Back on topic, I guess.

As for me asking that question before, I sincerely think you are mistaken-- though my memory is not what it once was.

FWIW, I have taken to revisiting some of my posts from many years back-- it's interesting to see one's self from this perspective. Highly recommended!

Harrison Bergeron
03-18-2016, 20:07
Was all that just to prove that it's possible to find something to talk about on Whiteblaze without someone asking about cheese?

Sarcasm the elf
03-18-2016, 20:09
Was all that just to prove that it's possible to find something to talk about on Whiteblaze without someone asking about cheese?


And there you go mentioning cheese...

Deadeye
03-18-2016, 21:17
I like cheese. And I just tried using the search... it wasn't very helpful at all, so I'm not surprised people would just ask.

rickb
03-18-2016, 21:23
Do not have to go too far back....editor has all of them for me, she said some thing about using them as teasers for the book and an unusual way to do a foreward. Not so sure how that would work but then again she is the boss lady not me.

And we can venture off topic....you mentioned before taking your wife on some trips? Is she a regular hiker? Or is she new? Has she done a long distance hike before? I am asking this in complete sincerity.

Look it up :-)

Which sort of brings this back to the original issue.

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 22:10
Which makes my point and the point of the OP.....lol



Look it up :-)

Which sort of brings this back to the original issue.

kayak karl
03-18-2016, 22:17
there are already 127 threads on this topic

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 22:27
Wow really? That is kind of sad huh? That it is so prominent that at least 127 threads have been dedicated to it and still is happening!
If I had the time I would go back and see if the same names of the same offenders keep popping up....

BTW your signature is awesome!




there are already 127 threads on this topic

Sarcasm the elf
03-18-2016, 22:27
This thread has made me realize: Of all threads asking "How long does cheese last on the trail" I don't think anyone has ever suggested googling that specific question. Seems odd...

rafe
03-18-2016, 22:43
If I had the time I would go back and see if the same names of the same offenders keep popping up....

Oh, go for it, Smoky. C'mon, don't be lazy. I'll bet your editor would love to know. ;)

rocketsocks
03-18-2016, 23:03
I want an editor.

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 23:17
And here I thought you wanted to be friends....lol



I want an editor.

Smoky Spoon
03-18-2016, 23:27
How about you do it for me? You have nothing better to do except but your nose into my life....and speaking of.....why are you on here all the time? Have you no life son? More than 11000 posts.....Guess that makes you a writer wanna be huh? 11000 plus posts.....THAT is a lot of writing, a lot of time....and since 2005....we always seem to discuss me, I think we need to discuss you for a while.
When did you do your thru hike of the AT?
How old are you?
Married?
What was your thru hike like?
What do you do for a living?
What kind of gear do you prefer most? Why?




Oh, go for it, Smoky. C'mon, don't be lazy. I'll bet your editor would love to know. ;)

rafe
03-19-2016, 00:02
I've been here for a while, Smoky. I come and go. Sometimes the mods tell me off, and sometimes I leave on my own, with other things to do. Lately: retired, it's winter, ski season sucks, so I have time for blogs.

I'll be off grid tomorrow, going for a hike, in fact. Check out terrapinphoto.com/wp, that's me. It will answer many of your questions. Lots of photos and journals. Yes, I like to write, that's true. My style is somewhere between LW's one-liners and Dogwood's ambling monologues.

Casey & Gina
03-19-2016, 00:04
This is a forum, not a wiki. It's a natural aspect of it that threads will be repetitive over time.

Dogwood
03-19-2016, 00:19
You know I said it before, the one thing you and I both agreed on was HOW LONG:banana that thread had life! Never really thought it would last as long as it did. And it was interesting......oh, not purple colored energy efficient, after all isn't that the point of that particular "exercise" is to expend a wee bit of energy? And alas, it was pink not my favorite color but did have the best "buzzing" output. :sun

Back to an earlier question....never tried the hemp....but do love the chia in organic Greek yogurt...now on the trail it of course has to be in the cream of wheat...also organic....a girl does have to watch she puts inside her body after all!


he he he Enjoyed the non confrontational cum back. :p:banana

Dogwood
03-19-2016, 00:46
Was all that just to prove that it's possible to find something to talk about on Whiteblaze without someone asking about cheese?


What's the cost of a thru-hike? Can I thru-hike on $1000? What's the best tent? What kind of shoes is everyone using? Do I need waterproof shoes? What do people eat on the trail?.....................................:-?

The quality of an answer is partly dependent on the quality of the question.


We're approaching this topic as noted by the OP mainly from the OP's perspective which is certainly a valid point of contention. But it also has been given consideration here on this thread and others. If there are 127 threads regarding replies of "look it up, do a search for it" perhaps questioners can also display a greater proactive willingness to do at least some rudimentary reading before asking the most commonly asked and extensively answered questions? Again, what is the goal...bitching and playing the blame game when not gaining a reply as desired OR contributing to solutions?


Sure, as the OP and others have related there have been some curt snarky "look it up, do a search for it" answers but when inquirers demonstrate ZERO initiative having done some previous research WHEN THEY OBVIOUSLY COULD HAVE while quickly resorting to a personal Q & A approach inquirers can be perceived as being lazy hence the reason for some snarky offended replies


And, despite the somewhat lame excuse that the WB Search engine sucks if one can sign on to WB they certainly should be capable of a learning how to do conduct a targeted WB or Google search BEFORE asking very common questions expecting a personal emergency Bat Phone line to Commissioner Gordon.

Smoky Spoon
03-19-2016, 01:12
This is true, research is important....and I do actually understand how frustrating it could be to answer the same old questions again and again, but let's not forget that often the person asking the question is asking it for the first time. So a little kindness and patience could go a long way...

You get more flies with honey than vinegar goes the old saying but we are hikers and hikers despise flies....so there you go.

But in all honesty, it never hurts to answer honestly asked questions with a modicum of kindness....and if perhaps on that particular day when one is not feeling like being the hero answering the bat call for help then maybe one shouldn't pick up the phone.

Personally, i have researched my tail off....but then again I am a researcher....so for me it's all in a days work. Others however may not have access to the resources that I do and then there is the human experience factor. There is no research as good as asking people who live it....and on this site I think most feel like the hiker sages live here.







What's the cost of a thru-hike? Can I thru-hike on $1000? What's the best tent? What kind of shoes is everyone using? Do I need waterproof shoes? What do people eat on the trail?.....................................:-?

The quality of an answer is partly dependent on the quality of the question.


We're approaching this topic as noted by the OP mainly from the OP's perspective which is certainly a valid point of contention. But it also has been given consideration here on this thread and others. If there are 127 threads regarding replies of "look it up, do a search for it" perhaps questioners can also display a greater proactive willingness to do at least some rudimentary reading before asking the most commonly asked and extensively answered questions? Again, what is the goal...bitching and playing the blame game when not gaining a reply as desired OR contributing to solutions?


Sure, as the OP and others have related there have been some curt snarky "look it up, do a search for it" answers but when inquirers demonstrate ZERO initiative having done some previous research WHEN THEY OBVIOUSLY COULD HAVE while quickly resorting to a personal Q & A approach inquirers can be perceived as being lazy hence the reason for some snarky offended replies


And, despite the somewhat lame excuse that the WB Search engine sucks if one can sign on to WB they certainly should be capable of a learning how to do conduct a targeted WB or Google search BEFORE asking very common questions expecting a personal emergency Bat Phone line to Commissioner Gordon.

Smoky Spoon
03-19-2016, 01:14
Yes it has been fun hasn't it....:p

he he he Enjoyed the non confrontational cum back. :p:banana

Smoky Spoon
03-19-2016, 01:16
I hope you have a good hike....stay safe.



I've been here for a while, Smoky. I come and go. Sometimes the mods tell me off, and sometimes I leave on my own, with other things to do. Lately: retired, it's winter, ski season sucks, so I have time for blogs.

I'll be off grid tomorrow, going for a hike, in fact. Check out terrapinphoto.com/wp, that's me. It will answer many of your questions. Lots of photos and journals. Yes, I like to write, that's true. My style is somewhere between LW's one-liners and Dogwood's ambling monologues.

Acacia
03-19-2016, 04:54
....As for any relationships I make on the trail, they are not going into the book, why would they? It's not about relationships on the trail, it's about the trail in and of itself......

The thing is, the people make the trail, at least the AT.



Yeah I am not much into people....well some people.....

I'm beginning to see the wisdom of your boss putting a not-into-people person, on a two-foot wide path, inevitably coming across fellow hikers she won't be able to ignore.

I like your boss :)

Miel
03-19-2016, 08:58
Maybe some folks just want to own their own thread on a subject, so they can quickly refer to those answers from their own profile page.:)

Smoky Spoon
03-19-2016, 16:04
I am sure many of the relationships are important, and I have no doubt I will meet a few that will impact my life hopefully in good ways, but my dream was never to hike the trail and make friends, it was to hike he Appalachian Trail.

My editor is a good person, I am trusting her judgment, she is the boss after all. :cool:




The thing is, the people make the trail, at least the AT.




I'm beginning to see the wisdom of your boss putting a not-into-people person, on a two-foot wide path, inevitably coming across fellow hikers she won't be able to ignore.

I like your boss :)

kayak karl
03-19-2016, 18:08
I am sure many of the relationships are important, and I have no doubt I will meet a few that will impact my life hopefully in good ways, but my dream was never to hike the trail and make friends, it was to hike he Appalachian Trail.

My editor is a good person, I am trusting her judgment, she is the boss after all. :cool:

not that any story about the trail is worth reading, but a story without the people of the trail??? all i remember is the people i met. many i still talk to and would not pass through their town without seeing.

John B
03-19-2016, 18:55
not that any story about the trail is worth reading, but a story without the people of the trail??? all i remember is the people i met. many i still talk to and would not pass through their town without seeing.

I'm the opposite. I've read enough AT books and trail journals to say that I'd be happy if I never again read about Bear Spray, Snickers, Poops-in-the-Night, or any of the myriad of "trail names" and their exploits. To my eyes, it's incredibly redundant, boring, and mostly juvenile. For a nice change, I'd like to read observations about the geology of the trail, forest variations, insightful thoughts on the impacts people and pollution are having, encroachment by subdivisions, town, and cities -- almost anything but yet another entry on the excruciating minutiae of how Sweet Ass is dealing with a dead cell battery, FooFoo missing her boyfriend, or the millionth entry about eating a gallon of ice cream.

Smoky Spoon
03-19-2016, 20:00
Thank you, i agree. I am sure I will meet many people who will become lifelong friends, and I am sure I will treasure their friendship, but yes, the emotional journey of the trail and the people and their idiosyncrasies has been so overdone. The trail itself is what people say they dreamed of hiking, never had you heard someone claim, "I am hiking the trail because all my life I dreamed of meeting a multitude of characters." Usually it is "I am hiking the trail because I dreamed of doing it for so many years, I want to see the different places and experience life in a new way...."



I'm the opposite. I've read enough AT books and trail journals to say that I'd be happy if I never again read about Bear Spray, Snickers, Poops-in-the-Night, or any of the myriad of "trail names" and their exploits. To my eyes, it's incredibly redundant, boring, and mostly juvenile. For a nice change, I'd like to read observations about the geology of the trail, forest variations, insightful thoughts on the impacts people and pollution are having, encroachment by subdivisions, town, and cities -- almost anything but yet another entry on the excruciating minutiae of how Sweet Ass is dealing with a dead cell battery, FooFoo missing her boyfriend, or the millionth entry about eating a gallon of ice cream.

Malto
03-19-2016, 20:58
This thread has set a new standard for drift.

rocketsocks
03-19-2016, 21:27
And here I thought you wanted to be friends....lolyou had me at hello.

Sarcasm the elf
03-19-2016, 21:42
I'm the opposite. I've read enough AT books and trail journals to say that I'd be happy if I never again read about Bear Spray, Snickers, Poops-in-the-Night, or any of the myriad of "trail names" and their exploits. To my eyes, it's incredibly redundant, boring, and mostly juvenile. For a nice change, I'd like to read observations about the geology of the trail, forest variations, insightful thoughts on the impacts people and pollution are having, encroachment by subdivisions, town, and cities -- almost anything but yet another entry on the excruciating minutiae of how Sweet Ass is dealing with a dead cell battery, FooFoo missing her boyfriend, or the millionth entry about eating a gallon of ice cream.

One of the reasons that I continue to like Bryson's book so much is because of his inclusion of background research about the history and geology of the trail. He may not have told much truthfully about an actual hike, but he did give a decent and entertaining account of the trail's background info. I've since read a half dozen books that are point a to point b accounts of a thru hike and much like you I've found that those accounts have become totally stale.

BonBon
03-20-2016, 23:00
Thank you, i agree. I am sure I will meet many people who will become lifelong friends, and I am sure I will treasure their friendship, but yes, the emotional journey of the trail and the people and their idiosyncrasies has been so overdone. The trail itself is what people say they dreamed of hiking, never had you heard someone claim, "I am hiking the trail because all my life I dreamed of meeting a multitude of characters." Usually it is "I am hiking the trail because I dreamed of doing it for so many years, I want to see the different places and experience life in a new way...."

Yeah- you guys have been there and done that. But it's a first time for somebody (including you, once upon a time). One day we will all be bored and jaded, alas.

BonBon
03-20-2016, 23:01
Thank you, i agree. I am sure I will meet many people who will become lifelong friends, and I am sure I will treasure their friendship, but yes, the emotional journey of the trail and the people and their idiosyncrasies has been so overdone. The trail itself is what people say they dreamed of hiking, never had you heard someone claim, "I am hiking the trail because all my life I dreamed of meeting a multitude of characters." Usually it is "I am hiking the trail because I dreamed of doing it for so many years, I want to see the different places and experience life in a new way...."

And that-(meant to quote ABOVE)

BonBon
03-20-2016, 23:04
I'm the opposite. I've read enough AT books and trail journals to say that I'd be happy if I never again read about Bear Spray, Snickers, Poops-in-the-Night, or any of the myriad of "trail names" and their exploits. To my eyes, it's incredibly redundant, boring, and mostly juvenile. For a nice change, I'd like to read observations about the geology of the trail, forest variations, insightful thoughts on the impacts people and pollution are having, encroachment by subdivisions, town, and cities -- almost anything but yet another entry on the excruciating minutiae of how Sweet Ass is dealing with a dead cell battery, FooFoo missing her boyfriend, or the millionth entry about eating a gallon of ice cream.

OK- think I got it now.

Acacia
03-21-2016, 03:34
For a nice change, I'd like to read observations about the geology of the trail, forest variations, insightful thoughts on the impacts people and pollution are having, encroachment by subdivisions, town, and cities -- almost anything but yet another entry on the excruciating minutiae of how Sweet Ass is dealing with a dead cell battery, FooFoo missing her boyfriend, or the millionth entry about eating a gallon of ice cream.


One of the reasons that I continue to like Bryson's book so much is because of his inclusion of background research about the history and geology of the trail.


Speaking of geology and relationships, how about combining the two :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF0iC6DXMQ8

Berry Belle
03-21-2016, 19:30
I actually learned a Google search function from someone describing to a questioner how to find their answer, by using the "site:whiteblaze.net" command. I appreciated their sharing their wisdom.

Ever hear of the adage "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime"?



Thank you, Rain Man! I didn't know about the site search operator. I went to Google and Googled it. Tried it out by typing "tent site:whiteblaze.net" and got a nifty list of threads with the word "tent" in the subject line. SOOO much better than the WB search! Maybe I can avoid asking some of those annoying questions now.

Barricade
03-21-2016, 20:11
Hasnt asking people to search been said before?
Think about that for a min....

lol

Malto
03-21-2016, 21:29
Hasnt asking people to search been said before?
Think about that for a min....

lol

maybe do a search to find out.

Rain Man
03-21-2016, 22:57
Berry Belle, you are very welcome! RM


Thank you, Rain Man! I didn't know about the site search operator. I went to Google and Googled it. Tried it out by typing "tent site:whiteblaze.net" and got a nifty list of threads with the word "tent" in the subject line. SOOO much better than the WB search! Maybe I can avoid asking some of those annoying questions now.

Acacia
03-23-2016, 03:19
"site:whiteblaze.net"


RM, it works! A great way to do searches. thanks!

Fayanni
03-23-2016, 08:27
no question is stupid. Or so our elementary teachers once said. However, they do get repetitive. If it is a question that is "lazy" or repetitive" why open the thread? Who is holding a gun to anyone's head to open every thread and police it? I am new to the boards but my observation is...people are not dicks and pricks out on the trail and life is just relaxed and happy. The atmosphere on this forum different. The amount of trail/forum trolls and contentious people is startling. Bottom line, hike your own hike and read your what you want to read.

rocketsocks
03-23-2016, 08:39
If every time when growing up I was't told to "look it up" I'd never be the well rounded individual I am today.

rafe
03-23-2016, 08:45
I wonder how anyone managed to hike the AT before there was an Internet. :confused:

rocketsocks
03-23-2016, 08:54
I wonder how anyone managed to hike the AT before there was an Internet. :confused:right! Gosh fer bid, we might even have been book learnt, oh the desgrace.

Traveler
03-23-2016, 08:57
If every time when growing up I was't told to "look it up" I'd never be the well rounded individual I am today.

I STILL get that when I ask my wife where something is, she says "look for it". A crushing blow to confidence and self esteem, likely to drive me into a life of cowering timidity and squalor.

rocketsocks
03-23-2016, 09:07
I STILL get that when I ask my wife where something is, she says "look for it". A crushing blow to confidence and self esteem, likely to drive me into a life of cowering timidity and squalor.you could even turn into wayward hiker and roam the desert, hope ya have some prior experience with that, it's danegeious

John B
03-23-2016, 09:54
i still get that when i ask my wife where something is, she says "look for it". A crushing blow to confidence and self esteem, likely to drive me into a life of cowering timidity and squalor.

ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sarcasm the elf
03-23-2016, 09:57
Speaking of geology and relationships, how about combining the two :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF0iC6DXMQ8

That was brilliant.

Old Grouse
03-23-2016, 09:57
I STILL get that when I ask my wife where something is, she says "look for it". A crushing blow to confidence and self esteem, likely to drive me into a life of cowering timidity and squalor.

When my daughter used to ask that growing up, I would say "It's where you left it." Funny, she didn't seem to appreciate the help.

Sarcasm the elf
03-23-2016, 10:04
When my daughter used to ask that growing up, I would say "It's where you left it." Funny, she didn't seem to appreciate the help.

Funny you say that. Now that I have a toddler I deeply miss the days when anything in the house was where I left it.

Puddlefish
03-23-2016, 10:06
no question is stupid. Or so our elementary teachers once said. However, they do get repetitive. If it is a question that is "lazy" or repetitive" why open the thread? Who is holding a gun to anyone's head to open every thread and police it? I am new to the boards but my observation is...people are not dicks and pricks out on the trail and life is just relaxed and happy. The atmosphere on this forum different. The amount of trail/forum trolls and contentious people is startling. Bottom line, hike your own hike and read your what you want to read.

Sadly, I've found far more people being pricks on the trail, than these forums. People raised and socialized on the internet in general? Yeah, some of them are pretty nasty.

I've only been here a short while myself, and have noticed exactly one person being deliberately rude. I suspect a lot of people have a bit of snark in them, but I find that generally clever and entertaining. I'm a moderate, I'm used to people having different opinions and being a bit overly set in their ways. Often a follow up question can elicit a longer response in which they expound on the answer in a more helpful manner, that makes them seem a bit more human.

Different people have different levels of "easily offended." Text based communications often mean that it's difficult to tell if someone is serious or not. People growing up with texts apparently have a different code for punctuation. Generations differ. The message intended, is not always the message received.

If you've been here even a week, you probably just use the "What's New" search button. It's possible to see an ongoing twelve page discussion on a ticks for example, right next to a brand new question about ticks. It's easy to forget that the new member would have to read through weeks of forums to find that original thread on ticks. When I notice this I try to provide a link to the ongoing thread, rather than stating look it up.

Oh, and welcome to White Blaze!

perdidochas
03-23-2016, 17:09
no question is stupid. Or so our elementary teachers once said. However, they do get repetitive. If it is a question that is "lazy" or repetitive" why open the thread? Who is holding a gun to anyone's head to open every thread and police it? I am new to the boards but my observation is...people are not dicks and pricks out on the trail and life is just relaxed and happy. The atmosphere on this forum different. The amount of trail/forum trolls and contentious people is startling. Bottom line, hike your own hike and read your what you want to read.

Anybody who has said "no question is stupid" has never taught middle school......

rocketsocks
03-23-2016, 18:18
Funny you say that. Now that I have a toddler I deeply miss the days when anything in the house was where I left it.just wait till they get creative and use your shoes for a plunger.