View Full Version : Zpacks Free-Standing Tent Upgrade
DuneElliot
03-15-2016, 10:46
Just received an update from ZPacks that their Duplex is now offered with a free-standing option upgrade for $150. All Duplexes made after mid-November can be used with the new 10oz pole system and tents older can be sent in for retrofitting.
This is good news in my opinion. I have a Duplex on order and I love that I will now have the option of using it as a free-standing tent (if and when I can suck up the extra money for the poles). My only issue with ordering the Duplex initially was the fact that it wasn't free-standing...all my dreams have now come true. :banana
Anyone else think they may order the new poles for the upgrade?
colorado_rob
03-15-2016, 11:29
Just a very humble opinion, but why spend so much on a zpacks tent to begin with (let alone another $150) if now your total weight is close to less expensive tents?
The whole idea of a zpacks cuben tent is to save weight. Why the big desire for "free standing" ? Keep it simple. Keep it light. Save your $150.
Non-freestanding is really a non-issue. Again, just my humble opinion having used a zpacks non-free-standing Hexamid solo-plus for about 1000 miles of hiking, probably another 1000 miles in the next couple of months. I also have a very light free-standing tent. I don't notice any real difference in setup or use, after having set up both dozens and dozens of times.
"...but why spend so much on a zpacks tent to begin with (let alone another $150) if now your total weight is close to less expensive tents?"
Ahh, just look it up. Do a SEARCH for the answer. :D
Good question. Makes me second guess some folk's choices too? Some might like the option to have a non freestanding tent that can be converted to a freestanding tent.... with a rather hefty 10 oz wt gain if the OP's specs are correct. Makes me wonder though if one is desiring a freestanding tent as a customary set up, like you said Rob, just go with a different tent at a MUCH reduced cost from the get go with equal maybe even less wt with other comparable shelter features. I guess the freestanding feature could be a post retrofit optional set up for owners of the ZP Duplex already.
DuneElliot
03-15-2016, 12:56
"...why spend so much on a zpacks tent to begin with..."
Because it's completely waterproof. That was my biggest reason for buying CF in the first place...not the weight savings (I already own a Lunar Solo at a few ozs more and a lot less money). I guess it was a little about weight savings because I could carry a bigger tent for the same weight and I didn't like the looks of the Sol or Altaplex.
I like options. I like choices. I agree that the $150 price tag on new poles is hefty, and I'll wait and see how I like the set-up with the regular poles first. I just thought it was a cool concept that ZPacks is offering.
Huh? You bought a cuben fiber ZP tent because it's completely WP? Didn't know ZP had a monopoly on WP shelters? Didn't know a shelter had to be made from cuben fiber to stay dry? I guess if we want to be dry we should all go out and opt for a ZP shelter? Umm, I'm strongly guesstimating other factors were significantly involved. :p;):rolleyes::D
eblanche
03-15-2016, 20:32
Seems like a nice option if you know you may be camping where there are difficult camp spots like wooden platforms or flat ledges. Makes setup way easier if you are not willing to take a little extra time and/or be a little creative.
However, not for me. :)
DuneElliot
03-16-2016, 09:14
Huh? You bought a cuben fiber ZP tent because it's completely WP? Didn't know ZP had a monopoly on WP shelters? Didn't know a shelter had to be made from cuben fiber to stay dry? I guess if we want to be dry we should all go out and opt for a ZP shelter? Umm, I'm strongly guesstimating other factors were significantly involved. :p;):rolleyes::D
No need for the sarcasm! Didn't realize I was going to have to justify or rationalize my purchase or decisions for buying a particular tent from a particular maker out of a particular material.
I wanted Cuben Fiber because of the WP qualities. I went with ZPacks because I liked the Duplex design.
Yes, other tents stand up well in the rain, but there is always the misting issue in heavy rain with silnylon and other fabrics are heavier in general.
I tried to be helpful with some new information on the ZPacks Duplex but all the response I get is questioning my decisions on why I made the choices I did.:mad:
poolskaterx
03-17-2016, 14:31
No need for the sarcasm! Didn't realize I was going to have to justify or rationalize my purchase or decisions for buying a particular tent from a particular maker out of a particular material.
I wanted Cuben Fiber because of the WP qualities. I went with ZPacks because I liked the Duplex design.
Yes, other tents stand up well in the rain, but there is always the misting issue in heavy rain with silnylon and other fabrics are heavier in general.
I tried to be helpful with some new information on the ZPacks Duplex but all the response I get is questioning my decisions on why I made the choices I did.:mad:
You should have known that so many people know what you need or want better than you do, lol. It is about options; I appreciate the heads up. Hike on my friend!
DuneElliot
03-17-2016, 14:59
You should have known that so many people know what you need or want better than you do, lol. It is about options; I appreciate the heads up. Hike on my friend!
Thanks for the smile... :sun
Silny misting issues were(are?) due to perhaps inferior inconsistently manufactured inconsistent specked out silnys. With better quality threads and WPing silnys currently being manufactured with more consistent quality controls HH(Hydrostatic Head) is ranging 1200 on up to 10k +. By engineering accounts 1500 HH for the tent fabric main body is deemed WP for silny even in the wind driven heavy rainy of Great Britain.
Thanks for the explanation after I put you on the spot. You're not doing it all wrong. :D
BTW, getting someone to further explain THEIR situation, reasoning, and motivations and then offering some opinions based on this is NOT telling someone what they need to do. It IS about having more informed options hopefully with the opinions offering some additional considerations. :sun
cmoulder
03-17-2016, 22:39
Adding 10 oz is not IMO an 'upgrade' when it pitches perfectly fine with the trekking poles I'm already carrying.
I read through all the previous posts and still can't nail down what advantage the poles offer.
The one big disadvantage I can see is that the ridgeline is not going to be nearly as taut when supported by that whippy, flexy external pole structure compared to the solid placement of trekking pole handles in those cups. I've ridden out only a couple of really bad storms in the Duplex, and a solid ridgeline seems a must to me.
GreenBlaze
03-17-2016, 23:50
If I were going to spend north of $600 on a tent I'd go with a Hilleberg. I was looking at that Zpac Hexamid and I liked it, but the price tag seems absurd for what they are producing. I don't care what it's made out of.
GreenBlaze
03-17-2016, 23:53
btw - I don't mean to sound anti-Zpacs here. I like their stuff! The tent you purchased will be an excellent shelter no doubt about it.
Vegan Packer
03-18-2016, 03:20
I can't comment on my Duplex yet, because I haven't used it yet, but I can't wait to get out on the trail with it. I love ZPacks, so far. I also got a completely customized backpack from them. I haven't used that on the trail yet, either, but I have loaded it up, and it came out exactly as I had hoped. Their service and responsiveness has been topnotch.
Thanks for letting me know about the new option for the Duplex. I can understand that some people would want to go with the free standing option, and I can understand why people would decide not to go that route. To me, the important thing is that this company provides both options, and keeps updating and improving products, based upon suggestions from customers. They are also great about updating gear when they come out with the new alternatives.
sethd513
03-18-2016, 07:20
I think it looks ugly. For 750+ bucks depending on your material finish your tent should look the part. I love my duplex. I love my challenger rain coat. They are both ballin and work amazing for what I expected them for. IMHO it's 180 to upgrade my camo duplex. No thanks. I'd rather take that cash and get into a tarp tent or spread my feet in something else as all these American cottage companies offer a handful of great options. I can get a double wall tent under 3 lbs for 180. Nothing against zpacks I've had good dealings with them but I think they should of spent time and energy in designing a new product. Maybe expanding their product lines into two options. One Cuban one silny. Idk throwing twp hooped poles on a tent that works just fine seems sloppy to me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
cmoulder
03-18-2016, 07:30
If I were going to spend north of $600 on a tent I'd go with a Hilleberg. I was looking at that Zpac Hexamid and I liked it, but the price tag seems absurd for what they are producing. I don't care what it's made out of.
So you'd rather spend $600 and carry 6lbs than spend $600 and carry 1.25lbs for a shelter that will do the same job?
With UL gear, cost is (very often, but not always) inversely proportionate to weight. It's not like buying filet mignon where more weight at less cost is better.
edit: change 'or' to 'than', duh
DuneElliot
03-18-2016, 09:22
So after reading the comments here, maybe the theory is a good one, but the cost and added weight aren't worth it. I liked the idea but at the moment have no intention of buying the poles, especially for the price.
On this note, is there anywhere you can recommend me to buy some lightweight trekking pole extensions. I don't know how much I'll be using my poles (they are a new thing for me) but I thoroughly dislike the need to constantly adjust and readjust the height for my use and then tent pole use...I'd much rather carry a couple of extensions.
Dogwood...I understand about hydrostatic head and I agree with you, I just wanted a tent to add to my collection that would never run the risk of holding water. Each to their own and I bought my Duplex for my own reasons :thumb:
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/pole_jack.shtml
http://rutalocura.com/Polejack.html These are heavier duty without the heavy wt. Good especially for longer length pole jacks.
MLD and GG also sell pole jacks.
DuneElliot
03-18-2016, 10:21
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/pole_jack.shtml
http://rutalocura.com/Polejack.html These are heavier duty without the heavy wt. Good especially for longer length pole jacks.
MLD and GG also sell pole jacks.
Thanks, guess I missed it on their websites.
colorado_rob
03-18-2016, 10:31
So after reading the comments here, maybe the theory is a good one, but the cost and added weight aren't worth it. I liked the idea but at the moment have no intention of buying the poles, especially for the price.
On this note, is there anywhere you can recommend me to buy some lightweight trekking pole extensions. I don't know how much I'll be using my poles (they are a new thing for me) but I thoroughly dislike the need to constantly adjust and readjust the height for my use and then tent pole use...I'd much rather carry a couple of extensions.
Again, just another humble opinion, I'm not trying to tell you how to hike/camp/pack, but one fundamental concept behind UL hiking, and fine if you don't subscribe to UL hiking, is that of multi-use. An adjustable trekking pole works fine for pitching a zpacks tent, and it takes 2-3 seconds twice a day to adjust to the tent height then adjust to your hiking height. Why spend money and carry extra weight (however modest) to save 5 seconds a day? Have you actually hiked with your shiny new zpacks tent? If not, why not try before buying all this extra stuff that I bet you a buck you won't need or even actually want.
Some people constantly adjust their hiking pole lengths for going up/down/up/down/up/down, on the AT this truly would be a chore, and I find one length works fine for both up and down hills.
colorado_rob
03-18-2016, 10:35
One other point and then I'll shutup (but I really love these zpacks tents!).... when I pitch mine (with adjustable trekking pole), I pitch it initially with the pole at my hiking length, get it nice and taught, then I release the pole lock and push up firmly, lengthening the pole another 5-10cm to get that extra little bit of tautness in the tent. I don't think you can get it quite as taut without this little procedure (like with a fixed length pole, or a pole you don't want to adjust).
Water Rat
03-18-2016, 11:34
On this note, is there anywhere you can recommend me to buy some lightweight trekking pole extensions. I don't know how much I'll be using my poles (they are a new thing for me) but I thoroughly dislike the need to constantly adjust and readjust the height for my use and then tent pole use...I'd much rather carry a couple of extensions.
Just to throw this in to your bag of tricks to pull out if/when you need it... It might help, or not. Definitely worth a thought while playing with your new shelter.
I leave my poles at one height for hiking. When I finally figured out what was "just right" for me in terms of trekking pole length (for hiking), I used a Sharpie to mark that spot. I also notched my pole a little so the ink wouldn't wear off. That helps me to quickly get my poles back to the length that works for hiking. I plan on doing the same thing for my shelter. That way I don't have to fuss too much at the end of the day - It gives me a place to start when setting up my shelter. Ground level will vary so there will be some fussing, but I will have given myself a place to start with my pole lengths.
DuneElliot
03-18-2016, 12:20
Again, just another humble opinion, I'm not trying to tell you how to hike/camp/pack, but one fundamental concept behind UL hiking, and fine if you don't subscribe to UL hiking, is that of multi-use. An adjustable trekking pole works fine for pitching a zpacks tent, and it takes 2-3 seconds twice a day to adjust to the tent height then adjust to your hiking height. Why spend money and carry extra weight (however modest) to save 5 seconds a day? Have you actually hiked with your shiny new zpacks tent? If not, why not try before buying all this extra stuff that I bet you a buck you won't need or even actually want.
Some people constantly adjust their hiking pole lengths for going up/down/up/down/up/down, on the AT this truly would be a chore, and I find one length works fine for both up and down hills.
You have some points. I don't even have my ZPacks tent yet.
As I mentioned above in another post there is currently very little chance of me spending the extra money on the free-standing tent poles (my initial reaction was one of excitement which is now tempered after some thought and some advice)...and I will be trying it as-is with trekking poles AND the carbon fiber tent poles. I did order the straight poles as there is a good chance I will be using this tent while horse packing too, so will be without trekking poles, and as of yet I'm not sure I even like using trekking poles to hike. I won't be ordering the extensions unless I find it necessary and convenient.
I really hate the idea of adjusting trekking poles as I can never seem to remember where I had them comfortably set...just like my car driver's seat if someone moves it even slightly!
DuneElliot
03-18-2016, 12:21
Just to throw this in to your bag of tricks to pull out if/when you need it... It might help, or not. Definitely worth a thought while playing with your new shelter.
I leave my poles at one height for hiking. When I finally figured out what was "just right" for me in terms of trekking pole length (for hiking), I used a Sharpie to mark that spot. I also notched my pole a little so the ink wouldn't wear off. That helps me to quickly get my poles back to the length that works for hiking. I plan on doing the same thing for my shelter. That way I don't have to fuss too much at the end of the day - It gives me a place to start when setting up my shelter. Ground level will vary so there will be some fussing, but I will have given myself a place to start with my pole lengths.
Thanks for that...I hate adjusting anything and never seem to find the sweet spot again, once it has been adjusted.
Pole height and adjustments.
Pretty fast and easy to do if you have Flick Locks, now available from most brands .
For the heigh for tents I use my elbow as measurement.
Arm straight out is 115cm (45") , five fingers up from that is 120cm (47")... maybe something like that can work for you too.
"Arm straight out is 115cm (45")" I meant that to be lower part of the arm, that is elbow at 90 degree.
cmoulder
03-18-2016, 19:33
Thanks for that...I hate adjusting anything and never seem to find the sweet spot again, once it has been adjusted.
Put a mark on it with a Sharpie.
DuneElliot
03-19-2016, 09:11
Put a mark on it with a Sharpie.
Thought about that but black sharpie on black poles...not so visible. When I find my perfect length I'll figure out something to mark them with.
Sandy of PA
03-19-2016, 09:42
Sharpie sells silver markers, works great on black poles.
DuneElliot
03-19-2016, 10:37
Sharpie sells silver markers, works great on black poles.
Good to know. I'll check it out.
So after reading the comments here, maybe the theory is a good one, but the cost and added weight aren't worth it. I liked the idea but at the moment have no intention of buying the poles, especially for the price.
On this note, is there anywhere you can recommend me to buy some lightweight trekking pole extensions. I don't know how much I'll be using my poles (they are a new thing for me) but I thoroughly dislike the need to constantly adjust and readjust the height for my use and then tent pole use...I'd much rather carry a couple of extensions.
Dogwood...I understand about hydrostatic head and I agree with you, I just wanted a tent to add to my collection that would never run the risk of holding water. Each to their own and I bought my Duplex for my own reasons :thumb:
i just use 1/2 pex tubbing for an extension . Weighs .7oz with my repair duck tape wrapped on it .
DuneElliot
03-19-2016, 15:22
i just use 1/2 pex tubbing for an extension . Weighs .7oz with my repair duck tape wrapped on it .
Pex tubing? Is that like the plastic electrical conduit?
Pex is plastic plumbing waterline material . http://repipingspecialist.com/copper-vs-pex-plumbing-pipes/
I keep my tent pegs in it,it's light,strong, oh and cheep.
GreenBlaze
03-19-2016, 15:51
So you'd rather spend $600 and carry 6lbs than spend $600 and carry 1.25lbs for a shelter that will do the same job?
With UL gear, cost is (very often, but not always) inversely proportionate to weight. It's not like buying filet mignon where more weight at less cost is better.
edit: change 'or' to 'than', duh
I like to keep weight down, so I'd probably go with one of their 2-3lb tents. I think they are about $500.
ps - Gold would have been a better analogy than steak, but I get it.
cmoulder
03-19-2016, 16:38
Hilleberg makes a 2lb tent?
i just use 1/2 pex tubbing for an extension . Weighs .7oz with my repair duck tape wrapped on it .
Pex is plastic plumbing waterline material . http://repipingspecialist.com/copper-vs-pex-plumbing-pipes/
I keep my tent pegs in it,it's light,strong, oh and cheep.
I've seen PEX and similar very lite wt thin walled rigid Al or Cu tubing, good sections of broken trekking poles/carbon fishing poles, and even slightly bored out on one end(so it can fit over a trekking pole tip) Al arrow shaft used for pole jacks quite effectively. All pole jacks are is a tube of usually wrapped carbon fiber. Never thought about storing stakes in the tubing though. THX for the info.
GreenBlaze
03-20-2016, 12:25
Hilleberg makes a 2lb tent?
$585 • 1.1 kg/2 lbs 7 oz
$530 • 1.7 kg/3 lbs 12 oz
eljimberino
05-20-2016, 23:00
Interesting discussion. I'm attracted to the flex option because I do not use trekking poles. I'm a tarp user and pitch attached to trees, which are much stronger than poles in any case.
What I am thinking is to buy the duplex tarp only (no groundsheet and netting) and get the flex pole upgrade. I like the idea of having a quickly erectable shelter to sit under and sleep in. Of course I'll add a groundsheet and bug net as needed. I like also the idea that the doors won't have a pole in the way.
What do people think of this idea?
cmoulder
05-21-2016, 10:39
Well, although it sounds technically possible — but something I personally would totally not do — Zpacks does not make a Duplex tarp (http://www.zpacks.com/shelters.shtml), and they are not doing custom orders any more.
Just get a Duplex and some separate poles for pitching (http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/tent_pole.shtml). The Flex poles are IMHO like putting wagon wheels on a Ferrari. :)
eljimberino
05-21-2016, 19:53
Zpacks do indeed make a duplex tarp - as a standard option on the duplex page.
Another advantage of the flex option is you can pull the peak of the tent up during snow or pull the sides out for more room.
The flex poles seem like they would do a better job at stopping wind noise - but this is just a guess.
eljimberino
05-22-2016, 05:55
Follow up: From zpacks website, the duplex numbers are:
The Duplex Tarp with taped seams and sewn in linelocs weighs 9.5 ounces (269 grams)
The included guy lines and door clips weigh about 1.2 ounces (34 grams)
The sewn in Cuben Fiber bathtub floor and bug screen weighs 10.0 ounces (284 grams)
The included medium-plus 7" x 13" stuff sack adds .3 ounces (8 grams)
The total weight for the packed tent is 21.0 ounces (595 grams).
If you're carrying the dedicated carbon poles they're 60 grams each so + 120 grams = 715g.
On the other hand:
The duplex tarp alone is 269grams.
The flex pole set and hardware = 282g.
Add your own groundsheet (MLD DUO 60g) and bug net (Sea to Summit nano 80g) = 140grams.
Total = 681g.
Please let me know if I am missing something.
The latter system appears much more modular. Any thoughts?
eljimberino
05-22-2016, 06:00
Don't seem to be able to edit my post but noticed I missed the guylines, adding 34 grams to the total: now 705grams.
cmoulder
05-22-2016, 07:36
Apologies for my missing the tarp option on the Zpacks page. :o
And good work comparing the weights of tent vs the tarp+modular bits. Don't know about the compatibility and practicality of all those items working together, but maybe somebody has tried it and can advise one way or the other. Personally I like the simplicity and quick set-up of the stock Duplex. Almost always insects to deal with 3-season where I backpack, so I'm going to want the mesh and groundsheet anyway. For those rare times early spring and late autumn when I use a tarp, I've got the Pocket Tarp and polycryo ground sheet which weigh something like 190g combined.
eljimberino
08-25-2016, 05:15
As a follow up to this discussion I wrote a blog post:
https://jpquinton.com/2016/08/24/first-experiments-with-the-zpacks-duplex-flex-tarp/
Apologies for my missing the tarp option on the Zpacks page. :o
And good work comparing the weights of tent vs the tarp+modular bits. Don't know about the compatibility and practicality of all those items working together, but maybe somebody has tried it and can advise one way or the other. Personally I like the simplicity and quick set-up of the stock Duplex. Almost always insects to deal with 3-season where I backpack, so I'm going to want the mesh and groundsheet anyway. For those rare times early spring and late autumn when I use a tarp, I've got the Pocket Tarp and polycryo ground sheet which weigh something like 190g combined.
Yeah, I bought a ZPacks Duplex tarp, used it for a season, then sent it back to have the mesh and floor added to make a complete tent. The tarp was just a little too open and airy.
DuneElliot
08-25-2016, 08:58
As a follow up to this discussion I wrote a blog post:
https://jpquinton.com/2016/08/24/first-experiments-with-the-zpacks-duplex-flex-tarp/
That was a great first-hand gear review. It's definitely interesting. I started the post and honestly, after several backpacking trips with my Duplex I love it. I use trekking poles so the extra weight and cost just wasn't worth it. When it eventually comes time to replace my Duplex I may look into this option more.