Compass?

[Boo-Yah]

I am getting ready to do section hike, is compass advisable on AT? I bought a cheaper one off Amazon some time back Suunto A10, piece of crap, needle sticks, then when you get it to move it turns with the compass as you try to get to true north.

If compass is needed what is the best economical version?

[soumodeler]

I carry a super cheap compass thermometer combo, mainly for the thermometer. The AT is so well marked you will not need it. I think any basic compass would serve in an emergency.

[tarditi]

Don't really need one as the trail is well marked with white blazes (hence the name of the forum!) but if you want one, I recommend a decent baseplate compass like you might use for orienteering (silva or suunto).

[TNhiker]

yeah......for the AT, you dont really need a compass........

direction wise the biggest thing you have to worry about is leaving a shelter and make sure youre going in the right direction leaving it.............

[moldy]

I have the pin on kind that is in view by looking down because it's pinned to my chest strap. I refer to it frequently to keep my bearing. It's a great refrence point. Let's see...that should be North....then I look down....sure enough...that's North.

[Starchild]

Lost mine in the first week or so of my thru, never needed it.

[dudeijuststarted]

no compass is needed. they don't help anyway as the trail guides show "north" and "south" but the trail winds and weaves its way east and west around mountains.

[bigcranky]

I have a small compass on my watch band. I find it useful for figuring out where the sun will come up in the morning, where I am on the map, and, yes, making sure I head out in the right direction after a break or a night's sleep.


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[swisscross]

I have and use quite often the Suunto clipper.
Not truly needed but I don't always hike on trails that are as well blazed as others.
I just like to look at it during breaks or prior to going off trail to pitch or poo.

If I were to purchase a full sized compass I would get the Suunto M-3G.
BUT a compass will do you little good if you do not know how to use it or carry maps.

[saltysack]

I have and use quite often the Suunto clipper.
Not truly needed but I don't always hike on trails that are as well blazed as others.
I just like to look at it during breaks or prior to going off trail to pitch or poo.

If I were to purchase a full sized compass I would get the Suunto M-3G.
BUT a compass will do you little good if you do not know how to use it or carry maps.

I tried to buy the clipper for my Suunto core watch band but band is to wide.....go figure a Suunto watchband compass doesn't fit on Suunto watch band.....dumb!!!


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[rafe]

You don't need it... 'till you're really lost. I carry a cheap keychain compass/thermometer clipped to the pack. Never had to use it, but it gives me a little peace of mind.

[swisscross]

I tried to buy the clipper for my Suunto core watch band but band is to wide.....go figure a Suunto watchband compass doesn't fit on Suunto watch band.....dumb!!!


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That is sort of dumb. I have mine on my shoulder pack strap.

[saltysack]

That is sort of dumb. I have mine on my shoulder pack strap.

Yep....the watch has a compass but electronics fail.....chance of getting lost on the AT is slim but look at what happened to Inchworm....


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[JohnHuth]

It's good as a back-up. I'm sure the vast majority of hikers don't need one, because it's so well blazed, but I have an obsessive habit of doing map-and-compass work - makes me feel reassured. I have a Suunto with a mirror - fast and precise.

[Shutterbug]

I am getting ready to do section hike, is compass advisable on AT? I bought a cheaper one off Amazon some time back Suunto A10, piece of crap, needle sticks, then when you get it to move it turns with the compass as you try to get to true north.

If compass is needed what is the best economical version?

I carried a compass for many years without ever needing it. Then I got caught in an unexpected snow storm. The snow quickly covered the trail and the white out conditions made land marks impossible to see. My button compass allowed me to find my way back to my car.

My recommendation is to always carry at least a survival button compass -- http://www.amazon.com/Liquid-Filled-Survival-Button-Compasses/dp/B007HSDJPQ/ref=sr_1_11?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1458269597&sr=1-11&keywords=button+compass

[GreenBlaze]

For the AT a smartphone compass is fine and sometimes useful.

[cmoulder]

Just a small tag type compass and some idea of the local magnetic declination. In Maine, for instance, Magnetic North is about 20° West of True North.

For people who are really into precise navigation with compass and map, magnetic declination drifts over time and the declination printed on old maps can be off by a few degrees. Current declination can be found HERE (http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag/declination.shtml).

Also useful to have a basic understanding of the UTM system and a rudimentary understanding of lat/lon formats, i.e. ddd.dddd vs ddd.min.sec

[Traveler]

Need for a compass on the AT these days is low given the trail is pretty clearly defined with many thousands of feet and blazes. However Shutterbug has a great observation about getting caught in a snow storm and very low visibility that a compass came in handy. Fog and dark conditions can have a similar effect and a compass might be the handiest tool you have that day.

No need to carry a compass unless you know how to use one though. The good news is it doesn't take long to learn, there is a variety of small books on orienteering that you can get. The internet is full of sites that can provide entry level information on compass use as well. Carry a map of the trail section with you once you get some basic compass skills and getting lost is less of a concern.

[daddytwosticks]

I too have a compass/thermometer zipper pull. Great to indicating general direction (NESW). As others have stated above, it's a useful tool. :)

[colorado_rob]

Call me an old fart (I am), but I don't think I've ever hiked anywhere without some sort of compass, the entire AT included. I needed it once on the whole AT, and was glad to have it. My old compass, used for decades was a 0.7 ounce Silva-something, basically worn out and finally actually broke somehow. Per a tip on here somewhere by someone, I now carry that little 4 gram Suunto clip compass, works very smoothly, a fantastic little piece of gear.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BTO184I?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

Yikes, the price went up to $23, I bought it for $14 just recently.

Not sure what folks mean by "learning how to use it", nothing to it really, a little needle points to magnetic North, sometimes that is really handy on a trail that winds around all over the place in a climate where the direction of the sun is sometimes completely hidden from view. Same as saying "it's useless without a map". Nope, not useless. I suppose they are referring to triangulation, orienteering, etc, good stuff, but sometimes one simply needs to know what direction is what, there is zero learning on that simple task. There's the magnetic/true north declination thing, but that's small enough in the eastern US to pretty much ignore (about 13 degrees though in CO).

[WingedMonkey]

I always carry one, never need one. Just like my whistle.

Oh wait there were a few times over the last 25 years that I did need them.

Guess they will stay in my bag.

[ridehard]

Useful backups for navigation without a compass: using your watch, or using a digital watch to construct the analog representation, stick or trekking pole/15 minute method, finding Polaris (or estimating Polaris if only Ursa Major available).

(http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoKQMwUx2gA)

[Gailhinsh]

I bought a hand full of 3/4 inch diameter compasses off Amazon. I then drilled shallow 3/4 inch holes in the top of Mr trekking poles and glued one in the top of each of them. Now I can look down at any time to verify direction. As long as both long up, I'm confident they are correct. This added nothing to my weight as I removed the material from my trekking poles that they replaced. This works great! The tops of the compasses are flush with the trekking pole handles.

[colorado_rob]

I bought a hand full of 3/4 inch diameter compasses off Amazon. I then drilled shallow 3/4 inch holes in the top of Mr trekking poles and glued one in the top of each of them. Now I can look down at any time to verify direction. As long as both long up, I'm confident they are correct. This added nothing to my weight as I removed the material from my trekking poles that they replaced. This works great! The tops of the compasses are flush with the trekking pole handles. That is an OUTSTANDING idea, thanks!

[Traveler]

Call me an old fart (I am), but I don't think I've ever hiked anywhere without some sort of compass, the entire AT included. I needed it once on the whole AT, and was glad to have it. My old compass, used for decades was a 0.7 ounce Silva-something, basically worn out and finally actually broke somehow. Per a tip on here somewhere by someone, I now carry that little 4 gram Suunto clip compass, works very smoothly, a fantastic little piece of gear.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BTO184I?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

Yikes, the price went up to $23, I bought it for $14 just recently.

Not sure what folks mean by "learning how to use it", nothing to it really, a little needle points to magnetic North, sometimes that is really handy on a trail that winds around all over the place in a climate where the direction of the sun is sometimes completely hidden from view. Same as saying "it's useless without a map". Nope, not useless. I suppose they are referring to triangulation, orienteering, etc, good stuff, but sometimes one simply needs to know what direction is what, there is zero learning on that simple task. There's the magnetic/true north declination thing, but that's small enough in the eastern US to pretty much ignore (about 13 degrees though in CO).

Kind of like driving a car, point it in a direction and push the pedal, the car goes. But theres can be a little more to it for those who want to learn about it. Same is true for a compass, which has a number of uses from very simple directional indicating to more serious terrain navigation using a map.

[cmoulder]

Back in the pre-GPS days in the winter Whites it was crucial to have a very good compass and map, and of course the skills to use them. With visibility that was oftentimes zero and with no trail, it was necessary to figure out a bearing departing from a known point, follow the needle alone and trust that you'd end up where you planned.

Then there's the one time on an overcast day in September when we didn't bother to check the compass and accidentally climbed Mt. Adams. :)

[Gailhinsh]

That is an OUTSTANDING idea, thanks!
I had though about putting a round thermometer on one but opted for redundant compasses.

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[Bati]

I never would have made it out of Georgia without a compass, due to bad weather. But in a typical year, you should be fine without one. However, for the weight, it's a good idea. A compass also gives more options on figuring out what mountain is what so you can moan or brag about what you have to climb or went over/around. If you ever need to go off trail for stuff like water or to the nearest road in case of an emergency, it's good to have, provided you know how to use it.

[Puddlefish]

I like a full sized basic compass, because I'm color blind and miss some blazes. Even white blazes disappear in the snow. I fully intend to explore some side trails along my AT hike. I carry maps and generally know where I am on any given trail. The Suunto A 30 weighs in at 1 oz., and suffices for my use.

The declination on the AT ranges from 5 degrees west in Georgia to 18 degrees west in Maine. If you intend to use it in conjunction with a map, you should very much learn to use it. Being off by 15 degrees can add up, but if you get your declination backwards, you're suddenly off by 30 degrees which can get you off track twice as fast.

If you're just concerned about finding the trail again after taking a dump in the deep woods, then a button compass is certainly sufficient, assuming you took a general heading (and remembered it) before starting that off trail trek. Just reverse it, and you're safely back on the trail somewhere.

[atraildreamer]

I bought a hand full of 3/4 inch diameter compasses off Amazon. I then drilled shallow 3/4 inch holes in the top of Mr trekking poles and glued one in the top of each of them. Now I can look down at any time to verify direction. As long as both long up, I'm confident they are correct. This added nothing to my weight as I removed the material from my trekking poles that they replaced. This works great! The tops of the compasses are flush with the trekking pole handles.

WalMart sells hiking poles with the little compasses on the top of the handles, just like you described, but every time I took a look at a set, in the store, the two compasses always pointed in two different directions! :confused: :D

[cmoulder]

WalMart sells hiking poles with the little compasses on the top of the handles, just like you described, but every time I took a look at a set, in the store, the two compasses always pointed in two different directions! :confused: :D

If the handles are close together it could be the needles attracting each other, or it could be the metal in the display racks. However, I have indeed seen some cheap button compasses that were definitely a few degrees off. I always compare a new one to a good, full-size compass that is known to be accurate.

[Roamin]

yes, making sure I head out in the right direction after a break or a night's sleep.

I carry a compass for this reason alone. At times I can be directionally challenged.

[Traveler]

Has anyone else had the same experiences I have with the little "button" compasses? Mine frequently fail. They either stop turning, or provide any number of directional readings from the same spot facing the same direction. Larger compasses seem to work fine.

[cmoulder]

Yes, most recently to a little ball-shaped one. I was going to say "like this" but I'm pretty sure its's the exact one from this company (http://www.suncompany.net/#!compasses/c2it), which seems to be where REI sources those little tag-type compasses near the checkouts.

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/4cba74_ada8d557f2084772b1138d87a064a1e4.jpg/v1/fill/w_390,h_466,al_c,q_90/4cba74_ada8d557f2084772b1138d87a064a1e4.jpg
Then there's the issue of reversing the polarization of the needle, as mentioned HERE (http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2013/04/11/mountain-expert-warns-of-compass-problem-that-could-needle-walkers).

[JohnHuth]

An interesting article -

http://www.outsideonline.com/2060641/our-reliance-technology-makes-backcountry-more-dangerous

Maybe it covers some obvious points folks already know. One thing that should be said: USGS quads are not impeccable - they can contain errors on them. Trails can be rerouted for erosion control. I've seen streams depicted running in the wrong direction. It's important to be able to look at multiple pieces of information and keep in mind that some data, whether it's on a map, or coming from a GPS could be wrong. Google the phrase "your gps is wrong" and you'll find a large number of road signs that have this phrase on it.

[jboggg]

I think it's a good idea. Did a one nighter last year with a buddy after 10" of snow had fallen in North GA. The trail was unrecognizable, and the snow stuck to the sides of the trees made the white blazes all but invisible. For anyone who likes to explore off trail (I do all the time for hunting) it is a must.

[Mr. Sparky]

A decent compass is inexpensive, small, weighs under 2 oz., does not need batteries, and can really get you out of a bind when the unforeseeable happens. I understand the perspective that the AT is well marked, heavily traveled, etc., but bad weather happens, people get lost. Knowing how to use a map and compass (not just finding north), triangulation, shooting a bearing, etc., are in my view essential to any outdoors enthusiast.

Full disclosure: I predates GPS and used to teach orienteering for the USFS.

[turtle fast]

Another bump for smartphone compass..... If you already got it, then use it. Which is fine as long as you have a signal, cell power, no electronic failure, or not in a downpour!

[nsherry61]

Has anyone else had the same experiences I have with the little "button" compasses? Mine frequently fail. They either stop turning, or provide any number of directional readings from the same spot facing the same direction. Larger compasses seem to work fine.
I don't think it is as much size as quality. Many of the "button compasses" are super cheap (<$1?), and some still work somewhat reasonably. Suunto makes their little watch band compass commented on earlier in this thread that is actually quite good quality and reliable. At $17 for this tiny thing, it had better be. Most of the little REI keychain /zipper pull ones, although not of the quality of the Suunto, are still pretty decent and very tiny.

[saltysack]

Another bump for smartphone compass..... If you already got it, then use it. Which is fine as long as you have a signal, cell power, no electronic failure, or not in a downpour!

Don't need cell signal for compass to work...life-proof waterproof case....I get ur point just clarifying....my Suunto watch also has compass built in....anything can fail Inc a reg compass....


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[nsherry61]

Don't need cell signal for compass to work...life-proof waterproof case. . .
Important point. You also don't need cell signal for the GPS on your phone to work. And, a Ziploc bag also works well as a waterproof case if you are trying to get by on the cheap.

[WILLIAM HAYES]

you dont need a compass on the AT

[Astro]

no compass is needed. they don't help anyway as the trail guides show "north" and "south" but the trail winds and weaves its way east and west around mountains.

And sometimes even North is South and South is North. :)

[Wise Old Owl]

you dont need a compass on the ATNothing against you Bill, this post was repeated sentiment from 5-6 other posters.

The unfortunate distraction is that others are as or not as smart as others. Yet over the years as a group we have read posts of people hiking twenty miles or more in the wrong direction on the AT. Sometimes its on a cloudy day, or there are other factors involved...



An occasional glance at a compass removes all the stupid doubt. So what is important to you? taking off and hiking back to the wrong shelter? Then you have to hike back? It's clearly your choice.

[colorado_rob]

Another use for a compass on the AT: Campsite selection. Sure is nice have a slope to the east along with a clearing (or slightly north of east, depending on time of year) to catch those first sun rays just so in the morning. Four grams, $17, well spent for that sweet little Suunto Clip.

[cmoulder]

Nothing against you Bill, this post was repeated sentiment from 5-6 other posters.

The unfortunate distraction is that others are as or not as smart as others. Yet over the years as a group we have read posts of people hiking twenty miles or more in the wrong direction on the AT. Sometimes its on a cloudy day, or there are other factors involved...



An occasional glance at a compass removes all the stupid doubt. So what is important to you? taking off and hiking back to the wrong shelter? Then you have to hike back? It's clearly your choice.

Last fall on an overcast morning I hiked a couple of miles in the wrong direction in the Adirondacks after departing Olmstead Pond. I arrived at a trail register and opened it to sign it only to discover I'd already signed it the day before, lol, grrrrrr... So I relented and whipped out the little tag compass (right there in my hip pouch, on a tether) and STILL didn't believe it when it told me to go the other way. But I did and got back on track quickly. Overcast sky can really get one disoriented, and a trail already hiked looks like a completely new trail when going in the opposite direction.

[kentc]

There is a fine line between hard core and stupid. A few dollars and a few ounces that you hopefully never use is cheap life insurance. Batteries die and electronics fail at a much higher rate than the trusty ole compass. Get a simple Silva compass for $15-$20 and tie it off on your pack. You may never look at it again. Or you may find it was the single most important thing you packed.

Reading all the posts about "the trail is marked so well you won't need a compass" makes me understand why SAR is so busy every year in this country. Yep, blazes and your iPhone will work if nothing weird happens, until something weird happens. Perhaps at 48 I am a dinosaur, but I never ever go into the woods without the ten essentials, even in my backyard. Murphy is out there and will rain HARD on your parade if you don't plan and prepare. I think some folks need to take a serious read on the following article and perhaps reexamine their stance on backcountry basics, starting with the compass: http://www.outsideonline.com/2060641/our-reliance-technology-makes-backcountry-more-dangerous

If you have not used a compass, you need to mentally prepare yourself that it just does one thing, but it does that thing perfectly well: it points north. As cmoulder pointed out above, the hardest thing to do when you are "temporarily misoriented" is believe the compass. Believe the compass!

[JohnHuth]

I think some folks need to take a serious read on the following article and perhaps reexamine their stance on backcountry basics, starting with the compass: http://www.outsideonline.com/2060641/our-reliance-technology-makes-backcountry-more-dangerous


Ha ha...I posted that article a page back or so.

Turning to the thought - for some reason, I'm always assuming that no one is going to rescue me. Do people really think that someone will come and rescue them if they do something stupid? Cell phones die, or coverage is absent. I only recently got a PLB, but that was for a trip in the Pacific in the Marshall Islands on an outrigger canoe - we had to get an elaborate scheme going with a chase boat, satellite phone link and the PLB. Even then, the group was self-policing. There was no chance of any Coast Guard rescue. We were on our own.

In any case, I feel naked without a compass - and this is from a guy who has memorized major navigational stars, and looks at the sun for directions.

[rock steady]

Please please keep track of where you are. and learn to use a compass and carry one. maybe the folks who say the trail is well marked will be OK. But the compass can SAVE YOUR LIFE if you find that you are off trail. I've been lost prob will be again, it ain't fun.

[rocketsocks]

Bout the only time I get to practice on my compass work is on hikes, it's something I enjoy knowing and doing, so yeah, I carry a compass. Required for the AT, prolly not, but I wouldn't leave home without it.

[Skyline]

Probably don't need it on the AT. But if you leave the Trail for some reason (side trail to some feature, or to get off the Trail in an emergency) you might find one handy. It's rather useless, tho, unless you also learn well how to use it properly.

I carried a map for the AT section I was hiking. That served me better than a compass. Maps typically show other intersecting trails and how to get to roads/"civilization" if you need to.

This advice is for the AT, which is well marked, has adequate signage, and except for deep winter has plenty of people on it. Other trails and backcountry areas? You might actually need a compass.

[TwoSpirits]

A few years ago I read a good article in Backpacker Magazine (back when it actually had a few intelligent articles, at least) and there was a great quote that has stuck with me: "It's better to have more skills than tools, more tools than rules, and more rules than rituals."

[DrRichardCranium]

Please stop telling people they don't need a compass.

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[jjozgrunt]

If you know the time and it's day you can find south in the northern hemisphere and work out the rest from there. It's the opposite in the southern hemisphere you will find north. I can't be bothered to try and explain it here but this youtube video does a reasonable job. He is wrong though when he says it won't work down here, the south, as I use it all the time. Go out and practice it and have a compass to check your results. Cheers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoKQMwUx2gA

[bob7]

If you get a compass with a mirror you get a three for one package:
1. Backup if you get lost
2. Mirror for signalling aircraft and searchers during daylight
3. Mirror for hygiene, ie looking at face/teeth for cleanliness/cuts/zits

[rickb]

For whatever reason, many AT thruhikers (and perhaps that includes some giving advise in this thread) would never even consider walking out of sight of the Trail to camp.

In in certain stretches of the Trail you are require to walk a minimum of 200 feet away from the footpath to pitch a tent at a non-designated site-- if that is what you wish to do. In other sections, that is suggested as a good LNT practice.

That is not very far, but far enough that you can loose site of the trail -- and a suitable site may be beyond that minimum.

Typically you select your campsite at the end of the day when you are tired-- and light may be fading. Days are especially short for trail-hardened Southbouders accustomed to doing big miles By the time days get very short.

In my opinion a compass is essential on the well marked AT, especially for those who have the courage/desire to walk into the woods a ways to camp

[rafe]

If you know the time and it's day you can find south in the northern hemisphere and work out the rest from there.

Solar or celestial navigation doesn't work that well when it's raining or cloudy, or when the canopy is dense as to obscure your view.

Overall the AT goes mostly S-SW to N-NE, but in any given mile or tenth of a mile, it could be going in any direction.

[tour-kid]

food
water
warm enough clothes
map/compass/navagation
way to make fire
shelter
sunscreen
flashlight
first aid
repair

There is a reason these items are constantly listed in ESSENTIAL backpack gear lists.

[English Stu]

+1 for carrying one. Good for campsite selection re sunrise as said. I did use one once when a couple forestry crossings close together looked very similar and after lunching sitting on a log close by but slightly off trail I was not sure 100% which way I had come in.​

[Uriah]

food
water
warm enough clothes
map/compass/navagation
way to make fire
shelter
sunscreen
flashlight
first aid
repair
There is a reason these items are constantly listed in ESSENTIAL backpack gear lists.

And yet somehow humans did without some of these so-called "essentials" for eons (sunscreen? flashlight? first aid? hah!), likely endowed with navigating and survival skills superior to most ours here.

[GoLight]

About 30 years ago in Central Maine I turned the wrong way while deer hunting and like to never made it back to the road. Ever since I´ve carried a compass even for day hikes.
The suunto clip on can be a lifesaver, or at least an embarrassment saver. For $23 its worth it and will last a lifetime if not damaged in a fall. Other option is a wrist watch with compass and thermometer and altimeter. I bought a Casio about 20 years ago for $50 or $60 and it still works fine except the glow in the dark button has faded to useless.
My favorite compass is the Suunto M2 with the mirror. I use the compass for orienteering games and the mirror for tick checks every morning and night. I also use a mirror on my smartphone and have even snapped a photo of hard to see place to check on butt chaffing.
Smartphone compass is excellent idea, too when you have a signal and battery is charged. You can pull up the map on screen that shows your surrounding highways and your location, then its easy to get unconfused.

[pickNgrin]

Having a compass is a good idea for if you take a wrong turn and get lost in the woods. Most people, when attempting to walk in a straight line, will in fact go in the circle. That will get you even more lost. With a compass, if you have a general idea of where you are, you will be able to walk a straight line and intersect the trail, a known stream, a roadbed, etc.

[rickb]

Here are three questions for all those suggesting a compass is not needed on a thru hike:

1. How many times have you camped out of sight of the Trail?

2. What is the farthest distance you have camped away from the AT or a blue blaze?

3. Do you think that camping out of sight of the AT has any place on a thru hike?

[GoLight]

It is entirely possible that Inchworm would have found her way back to the trail within minutes or hours if she had a compass. For every story about a tragedy such as Inchworm there are probably thousands of stories that never get told about hikers who step off the trail to get water, or camp, or pee break and momentarily get turned around, for an hour or more, and losing time on the trail, suffering anxiety and frustration and possibly doing something irrational, like walking even further away from the trail.
When we retraced my steps that time I was lost in Maine I saw when I first got lost I was only a 100 feet from the trail, yet I turned the wrong way and walked miles out of my way to finally come to a road, and found my friends all out searching for me. Embarrassing could have ended in tragedy. A compass is a cheap, easy peace of mind, don´t hike without it.

[Fireplug]

No you don't need a compass the trail goes in every direction. Not just North or South.

[ernie84]

You do not need a compass to hike the AT, unless maybeit is winter and the trail and tress are covered in fresh snow. I know how touse a compass but have never even considered carrying one with me on the AT.Why? There is no need. What are you going to do with it? *Checks compass*"Yep, still going NOBO." It is a (roughly) north-south trail, wellblazed, with signs at nearly every intersection. It's hard to get lost! If,while taking a tinkle, you wander so far off the trail that you can't find yourway back then, #1 reconsider your hobbies, #2 walk downhill until you come to astream, follow it until it intersects with a road. It will take a day at most.There is no place east of the Mississippi River that is more than a day's hikefrom a paved road.
Selecting a campsite? C'mon. You should know what directionthe sun is going to come up without a compass. The ridges generally run SW toNE. East is on your right if you are going NOBO. If you are unsure, look andsee what direction the sun is going down. It is going to come up in theopposite direction in the morning. Adjust tent accordingly.
That being said, I always carry a good map on overnighthikes or day hikes on unfamiliar trails. I study it whenever I stop and in mytent in the evening. I like to know where I am at. It is also good thing tohave to find the quickest way off the trail if necessary. But I have met thruhikers that don't even carry a map.
This advice applies only to the AT and other similarly wellblazed trails. If you are hiking the BMT or another trail that is oftenovergrown and less well blazed, then you might consider taking a compass withyou. But honestly, you can download a free compass app on your smartphone. Iknow what you are going to say, grandpa. The battery on the phone could die.That is why you carry a Mophie or some other power source. I relied on thecompass on my iPhone when I hiked the BMT a couple years ago and it worked justfine.
But hey, if you want to buy a compass and carry the thingaround, go right ahead. I carry a camp chair with me sometimes. Just don'tmislead impressionable new hikers into thinking they must carry one too.

[ernie84]

1. While hiking on the AT? Never. Unless you count sheltersoff of side trails, which I don't.2. On blue blazes? Maybe a couple hundred yards.
3. I'm not sure why you would ever need to but if that’s whatyou plan to do then, sure, take a compass (and a map). Same goes if you areplanning to bushwhack from GA to ME.

[ernie84]

There is a fine line between hard core and stupid. A few dollars and a few ounces that you hopefully never use is cheap life insurance. Batteries die and electronics fail at a much higher rate than the trusty ole compass. Get a simple Silva compass for $15-$20 and tie it off on your pack. You may never look at it again. Or you may find it was the single most important thing you packed.

Reading all the posts about "the trail is marked so well you won't need a compass" makes me understand why SAR is so busy every year in this country. Yep, blazes and your iPhone will work if nothing weird happens, until something weird happens. Perhaps at 48 I am a dinosaur, but I never ever go into the woods without the ten essentials, even in my backyard. Murphy is out there and will rain HARD on your parade if you don't plan and prepare. I think some folks need to take a serious read on the following article and perhaps reexamine their stance on backcountry basics, starting with the compass: http://www.outsideonline.com/2060641/our-reliance-technology-makes-backcountry-more-dangerous

If you have not used a compass, you need to mentally prepare yourself that it just does one thing, but it does that thing perfectly well: it points north. As cmoulder pointed out above, the hardest thing to do when you are "temporarily misoriented" is believe the compass. Believe the compass!

It is neither hard-core nor stupid to hike without a compass on the AT. It is perfectly reasonable. I think some folks are a little more into the planning and prepping than the actually experience of backpacking.

[Sarcasm the elf]

And yet somehow humans did without some of these so-called "essentials" for eons (sunscreen? flashlight? first aid? hah!), likely endowed with navigating and survival skills superior to most ours here.

For thousands of years humans also had a four in ten chance of dying before the age of then and routinely faced both plagues and famine. Oh the good old days...

Maybe we make up new guidelines like the ten essentials because we learn from the past and find better ways to do things.

[rocketsocks]

I think the ten essentials was brought about by gear companies so we'd spend our money...like Hallmark holidays. :rolleyes:

[rafe]

I have never actually needed or used my compass, but I always carry one. It weighs a few grams. It could be a life saver, in dire circumstances. Seems like a worthwhile "compromise." I would never suggest not carrying one on the AT, or any excursion into the back country.

[Sarcasm the elf]

It is neither hard-core nor stupid to hike without a compass on the AT. It is perfectly reasonable. I think some folks are a little more into the planning and prepping than the actually experience of backpacking.

Some of us have just been doing this long enough and on enough trails other than the A.T. to understand the importance of being properly prepared. Could you get away with hiking most parts of the A.T. without a map and compass in three season conditions? Sure, probably. But if you head into the Whites, or hit the trail in deep winter, or hike multi day on nearly any lesser used trail then not having a map and compass, or not knowing how to use them becomes a very foolish.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Personally when I see someone write "You don't need a compass on the A.T." I see it as the hiker equivalent of my college friends who would say "I'm fine to drive home I've only had four beers."

Will they make it? Sure, the odds are very good that they will, but it still doesn't make it a good idea and it absolutely doesn't make it good advice to give to strangers.

[ernie84]

Personally when I see someone write "You don't need a compass on the A.T." I see it as the hiker equivalent of my college friends who would say "I'm fine to drive home I've only had four beers."

Will they make it? Sure, the odds are very good that they will, but it still doesn't make it a good idea and it absolutely doesn't make it good advice to give to strangers.

Comparing hiking the AT without a compass to drunk driving is just ridiculous.


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[ernie84]

Some of us have just been doing this long enough and on enough trails other than the A.T. to understand the importance of being properly prepared. Could you get away with hiking most parts of the A.T. without a map and compass in three season conditions? Sure, probably. But if you head into the Whites, or hit the trail in deep winter, or hike multi day on nearly any lesser used trail then not having a map and compass, or not knowing how to use them becomes a very foolish.

I think the OP was asking whether it was necessary to carry a compass on the AT. Some of us know that it is not. As I stated in a previous comment, if you are hiking in snowy conditions or a lesser used trail, you might want to consider it.


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[ernie84]

I think the ten essentials was brought about by gear companies so we'd spend our money...like Hallmark holidays. :rolleyes:

Or lazy writers trying to crank out a click bait article for Backpacker magazine.


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[GoLight]

I´ve been carrying a compass watch for 20 years and a pin to my shoulder strap compass for 10 years before that. I have to admit I´ve never needed one to get me out of trouble or save my life on the AT. But, being alone and scared in the woods for a few hours thirty years ago was enough to teach this old grandpa the lesson loud and clear that it costs pennies per year to be prepared, and it could cost a life to be unprepared.
It gives me peace of mind to know that its there when I do need it. Glancing at it when I´m unsure about direction gives me something to do. Life gets slow at 2 mph so I look for ways to entertain myself. But its just silly of me since nobody ever got lost on the AT, right?
I hear a lot of people say don´t waste your money on a compass. I wonder if these are the same people who say don´t waste your money on a water filter. Nobody ever got sick drinking bad water on the AT, right?

[rafe]

Or lazy writers trying to crank out a click bait article for Backpacker magazine.


Umm, no. SAR crews take that list very seriously.

Your posts on this topic bring to mind an old saw about the Internet. "Never before has so much information been available to so many. And so much of it dead wrong."

[ernie84]

Umm, no. SAR crews take that list very seriously.

Your posts on this topic bring to mind an old saw about the Internet. "Never before has so much information been available to so many. And so much of it dead wrong."

Yeah, I'm sure SAR crews are real concerned about whether you are packing your sunscreen and tent repair kit.

Your posts remind me of the guy who is always talking about his "buddy in the Special Forces". That and chicken little. Typical message board hero stuff.


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[Sarcasm the elf]

Your posts remind me of the guy who is always talking about his "buddy in the Special Forces". That and chicken little. Typical message board hero stuff.


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That's cute. Fortunately many of us here have met Rafe in the flesh out on trail over the decades.

[Traffic Jam]

That's cute. Fortunately many of us here have met Rafe in the flesh out on trail over the decades.

He's bada$s. :)

[rickb]

1. While hiking on the AT? Never. Unless you count sheltersoff of side trails, which I don't.

You are not alone.

I think a very high percentage of thru hikers would be uncomfortable -- even afraid -- to camp out of site of the footpath.

That is thier choice, of course -- but also thier loss (IMHO).

[ernie84]

That's cute. Fortunately many of us here have met Rafe in the flesh out on trail over the decades.

And I'm sure he's a nice guy, in the flesh. He needs to brush up on his message board etiquette though and stop telling others that they are "dead wrong" for expressing a reasonable opinion that happens to differ from his own. An opinion, I might add, that is shared by half of those who have responded to this thread.


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[Traffic Jam]

I pity those who follow a blaze, never venture off trail, never solo camp, and never get lost (erm...turned around). They don't know what they're missing. Carry a compass and have some fun.

[rafe]

Are lifeboats on cruise ships necessary? How about flotation vests and oxygen masks on airplanes? Emergency exits on school buses?

99.99 percent of the time, they're just dead weight. But for some reason, they're mandated by law.

Traveling without map and compass in the back country is just dumb.

[rickb]

I pity those who follow a blaze, never venture off trail, never solo camp, and never get lost (erm...turned around). They don't know what they're missing. Carry a compass and have some fun.

I believe that thru hiking conditions one to look for blazes to the point that some (or many) thru hikers feel uncomfortable in thier absence.

[GoLight]

And I'm sure he's a nice guy, in the flesh. He needs to brush up on his message board etiquette though and stop telling others that they are "dead wrong" for expressing a reasonable opinion that happens to differ from his own. An opinion, I might add, that is shared by half of those who have responded to this thread.


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I was curious if half did agree so I counted posts, not posters, since some who posted on this thread did so more than once. There are four categories; Unsure, Yes AND No, Yes, and No.

In the unsure category was the OP, so count 1.

In the Yes & No category there were 6 (some posters thought its a good idea, but know people who hike successfully without one)

In the NO category there were 8 posts

In the YES category there were 46 posts some with VERY compelling reasons to carry a compass.

Bottom line, it costs $20 to get a decent compass to clip to your belt or shoulder strap that will surely give you peace of mind.
You may not need it, ever, until you do.

[Traffic Jam]

I believe that thru hiking conditions one to look for blazes to the point that some (or many) thru hikers feel uncomfortable in thier absence.

Agree. I experienced this when hiking the BMT. It can be downright scary to not have those blazes but it makes you a stronger hiker and outdoorswoman...and man.

[Uriah]

I think we'd find that most AT hikers, when tested, wouldn't even know how to use a compass to get out of trouble. Would they know the local declination, or how to properly orient a map? Would they even carry such burdensome large scale (i.e., 1:24,000) maps? Could they properly take a bearing, or would they know how to check a back-bearing, if they were to meander even farther off-course?

Somehow, I doubt it.

I've volunteered with SAR crews in Estes Park, CO (there's a lot of action there, what with the National Park and all the Forest Service lands surrounding it), and most those in need of assistance carried the "essentials," only to be unable to figure out how to use them!

A compass, by itself, is hardly a panacea. A compass and a SET of LARGE SCALE maps is better, but still won't educate those who don't understand their use.

[ernie84]

Are lifeboats on cruise ships necessary? How about flotation vests and oxygen masks on airplanes? Emergency exits on school buses?

99.99 percent of the time, they're just dead weight. But for some reason, they're mandated by law.

Traveling without map and compass in the back country is just dumb.

Is flossing necessary? No, but the ADA recommends it. What about the 30,000 mile service that the guy at the dealership insists you need? That's not necessary either. BTW I don't think the law mandates you to carry a compass.

I guess me and the majority of hikers responding to this thread are just dumb. But you and the Elf have the most posts on this internet message board, so you obviously know better.


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[ernie84]

And I'm sure he's a nice guy, in the flesh.


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Never mind, I take it back.


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[rafe]

Is flossing necessary?

If you have to ask... :rolleyes:

[tour-kid]

Some of us have just been doing this long enough and on enough trails other than the A.T. to understand the importance of being properly prepared. Could you get away with hiking most parts of the A.T. without a map and compass in three season conditions? Sure, probably. But if you head into the Whites, or hit the trail in deep winter, or hike multi day on nearly any lesser used trail then not having a map and compass, or not knowing how to use them becomes a very foolish.

this

99% of my hiking is not on the AT, and my safety kit always stays the same.
Is carrying a compass on the AT essential to survive? Probably not. But if you find yourself wandering off the sidewalk, you might need one. Learn how to use it. Basic topo map reading and navigation are pretty simple to understand.

[Another Kevin]

You are not alone.

I think a very high percentage of thru hikers would be uncomfortable -- even afraid -- to camp out of site of the footpath.

That is thier choice, of course -- but also thier loss (IMHO).

I'm always uncomfortable camping in sight of the footpath. I'm surely uncomfortable pooping in sight of the footpath. And I know how easy it is to get turned around, so when I leave the trail to poop or sleep, I do it following a compass bearing and follow the back bearing when I'm done.

[rafe]

A compass, by itself, is hardly a panacea. A compass and a SET of LARGE SCALE maps is better, but still won't educate those who don't understand their use.

No panacea but will improve your odds of survival, even without extensive training. If nothing else, a compass will help you travel in some chosen direction, rather than ambling aimlessly through the woods.

Standard maps issued by ATC (1:60,000 or so) are quite useful. Plenty of detail. I understand there are young people who don't know how to read a map. I feel bad for them.

[egilbe]

I wouldn't say you needed a compass to hike the AT, many people successfully do without one, but I do use my cell phone as one, and carry maps. The last Hike I did, my GF and I used our compass exactly twice. Once, to see where Katahdin would be seen from Rainbow Ledges, if it wasn't so cloudy and rainy, and the other time, to find a young lady on top of Moxie Bald on another cold, windy, rainy day. She was shivering in her shorts and tank top and couldn't find the trail from the summit of the Mountain. We came upon her sitting there and she said she couldn't find the trail off the mountain. The AT on Moxie Bald doesn't cross the summit. It was cloudy and foggy enough that from the summit, you couldn't see the trail we just came off of. GF got her map out, I used Guthook's app, found out that the trail was to the South of the Summit. GF had her compass out and we found the trail off the mountain and the young lady was on her way. I'm fairly certain we saved her life, I'd like to think so, anyway.

Is a compass needed? Not necessarily, but it sure can come in handy for the minimal weight.

[rafe]

He's bada$s. :)

That's funny, TJ. Maybe more like a hairless hiking hobbit.

[Sarcasm the elf]

But you and the Elf have the most posts on this internet message board, so you obviously know better.



Finally, we're getting somewhere. :D

I assume based on your posts that you are a one time thru hiker. Just for reference, I am a long time section hiker and if my assumption is correct then I likely have less miles, but far more bag nights and more varied experience than you. I am only stating this to point out that you and I likely have very different types of experience when it comes to backpacking, which is why we have very different views on this.

If someone were to ask the question "I am going to thru hike the A.T. northbound in peak hiker season do I absolutely need a compass?" Then sure they would likely be okay without one (though I still think everyone should carry a map and compass in the Whites. For the record if you need rescue in NH and you don't have a map and compass they will most likely bill you for their costs). My primary concern about this sort of advice is that it is very specific and does apply to most other backcountry activity. When I'm giving advice in a forum like this I never know who is going to read it or how they are going to interpret it and it really does concern me that less experienced people who read this sort of advice may have trouble appreciating just how specific it is to the A.T. Knowing how to use a map and compass is a basic and essential back country skill and is something that anyone who wishes to become a well-rounded outdoors person should learn. I don't know you and clearly you can feel free to disagree with my advice as it applies to your plans, but I hope you at least understand my point about giving general advice.

If you don't want to take my word for it, then I can also direct you to the article that Mags wrote about it some time ago. He has nearly twice as many posts as me, so I hope you'll take him seriously.:rolleyes:

http://www.pmags.com/thru-hikers-specialized-outdoors-knowledge

[ernie84]

Finally, we're getting somewhere. :D

I assume based on your posts that you are a one time thru hiker. Just for reference, I am a long time section hiker and if my assumption is correct then I likely have less miles, but far more bag nights and more varied experience than you. I am only stating this to point out that you and I likely have very different types of experience when it comes to backpacking, which is why we have very different views on this.

http://www.pmags.com/thru-hikers-specialized-outdoors-knowledge

I'm a section hiker myself. Definitely haven't hiked as many miles as some others on here but have experience on the AT, BMT, and many other blue blazes (and rivers) in all four seasons.

In my first reply on this thread, I explicitly stated that my advice only applied to the AT. It might be hard to read because I botched the spacing but if you read closely you'll see that is exactly what I said. If you're gonna hike the BMT by yourself you should at least download a compass app (and carry a map).

I don't have any problem with folks that want to carry a compass "just in case" or just because they like looking at it. Carry whatever you want. What I do have a problem with is people who assert that hiking the AT without a traditional compass is dumb or reckless. It's neither.


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[ernie84]

It is entirely possible that Inchworm would have found her way back to the trail within minutes or hours if she had a compass.

For the record, she did have a compass. They found it with the rest of her belongings. She didn't know how to use it. But that was the least of her problems. Based on what I've read, she had no business being out there by herself. I'd like to think the average AT hiker would have survived with only a story to tell around the shelter that night.



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[Mags]

And yet somehow humans did without some of these so-called "essentials" for eons (sunscreen? flashlight? first aid? hah!), likely endowed with navigating and survival skills superior to most ours here.

People have been navigating with a compass since ~1300 AD for navigation. (http://inventors.about.com/od/cstartinventions/a/Compass.htm)Before that I suspect they used celestial navigation, an astrolabe, the sun, knew the route from experience/oral tradition only, or simply became lost. New fangled technology vs others. :) Of course maps are pretty darn old (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cartography), too


Before sunscreen or sunglasses? People covered up with clothing..or ignored it and "enjoyed" various types of skin cancer, cataracts and/or premature aging of the skin.

Night time jaunts? Well, people stopped. Or used torches, candles or lanterns. Just ask the ancient Greeks or Chinese.


First aid? Conquered most of the Mediterranean world with it I reckon... About 2000 years ago. (http://unusualhistoricals.blogspot.com/2012/11/medicine-roman-army.html)

And since they marched ~20 miles a day with 60 lbs of gear, a repair kit was needed. (http://romanrecruit.weebly.com/the-marching-pack.html)


And shelters, warm clothes fire starting kit,etc ... Well, Ozti thought they were pretty good (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi#Clothes_and_shoes) ~3200 BC.

So, not sure of your point unless you are advocating hiking naked, going without food, and doing away with nearly 5000 years of technology in many cases.

While a valid case can be made for using a compass or not on the AT in three-season hiking, this "And yet somehow humans did without some of these so-called "essentials" for eons" argument is well, not correct.



Maybe we make up new guidelines like the ten essentials because we learn from the past and find better ways to do things.

People have been using the ten essential in one form or another for EONS to use a term from another person.

Warm clothing, extra food, navigation aids, ways to tend to/repair equipment and protection from the elements have been needed for a long, long, long time.

[rocketsocks]

I would suggest that from time to time the 10 essentials can change, for instance! If my ass is hurtin' real bad, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be packin' in thee ole Preparation H...essentially.

[rocketsocks]

Or lazy writers trying to crank out a click bait article for Backpacker magazine.


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http://whiteblaze.net/forum/webkit-fake-url://94dfc324-dedb-4587-9821-db033d38a68a/imagejpeg

[rocketsocks]

Or lazy writers trying to crank out a click bait article for Backpacker magazine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalklets try that again!
36154

[ernie84]

lets try that again!
36154

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160909/a00be3f02c5c8d17e93742b0472b35cd.jpg



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[GoLight]

I guess it is kind of easy to assume things about other hikers. Like if a AT hiker has a compass and has hiked nearly 1000 miles, they would surely know how to use the compass. Using a compass is so simple and easy to learn I just assumed anyone who has one knows what to do with it. Even without a map in hand you have a general map in your head of the region around you. You would know for example that there is a town in that direction, or a highway in that direction, or whatever. You would just use your compass to go in the direction you felt rescue was most likely.
In the case of Inchworm, she did have a compass in her possession yet apparently she didn´t know how to use it. She relied solely on her Samsung cell phone to send text messages asking for help, but there wasn´t any signal.
Reading the newspaper accounts is saddening. Even though she had hiked almost 1000 miles she had shown several times she was directionally challenged. She had left her PLB in a hotel room. She was hiking alone in one of the most remote areas of the AT. She stepped off the trail in dense underbrush for a toilet break, and was found two miles from the trail. At some point she ran out of anxiety medication and probably had panic attacks. She survived a month after getting lost and was found 2 years later.

Could it happen to anyone else? Yes, according to the Maine state game warden it happens dozens of times each year, just in the state of Maine, never mind the 13 other states on the AT. Heres´s his statement:
Every year, about 28 Appalachian Trail hikers get lost in Maine, Lt. Kevin Adam of the Maine Warden Service said shortly after Largay was reported missing.
Searchers find lost hikers within 12 hours 95 percent of the time, and within 24 hours in 98 percent of the cases.

My take away is that hiking without a compass, or hiking with a compass and not knowing how to use it, is just dumb. Period.

[GoLight]

Here´s the newspaper article: http://www.pressherald.com/2016/05/26/hiker-who-died-on-appalachian-trail-didnt-know-how-to-use-a-compass/

[rickb]

I'm always uncomfortable camping in sight of the footpath. I'm surely uncomfortable pooping in sight of the footpath. And I know how easy it is to get turned around, so when I leave the trail to poop or sleep, I do it following a compass bearing and follow the back bearing when I'm done.

Exactly.

While there are many sections of the AT where you do not have a legal option to pitch a tent off trail, there are significant stretches where you do.

Moving away from the comfort of the white blazes -- even for a relatively short distance -- can be disconcerting. The thing is, for all the disadvantages of doing so, there are other compelling reasons to give this a try.

It may seem strange suggesting that a thru or section hiker may need special courage to walk out of site of the blazed trail to pitch a tent and camp by him or herself, but think about it: from the very beginning the trail reinforces the idea that you will always be tethered to others with a blaze, and you are forced to camp in close proximity to the footpath and others.

Which brings me back to the compass.

Even if one is not needed to walk out of site of the trail to camp, having a compass can give you just a bit of extra confidence to do so. In a way, it can give you additional options even when all is going great

And really help you hike your own hike.

Ther are better reasons for having a compass, I suppose -- just wanted to add this one to the list.

[Alleghanian Orogeny]

For the record, she did have a compass. They found it with the rest of her belongings. She didn't know how to use it.


Methinks you just ratified the opinions of those who believe it's foolish, dumb, or at least unwise to backpack anywhere without a compass. You most certainly proved my own personal mantra: There is no complete substitute for a map, a compass, and the ability to use them.

Thoroughly prepared in other senses or not, and from what you report about her having had a compass in her gear, Inchworm would perhaps be alive today had she had a map, a compass, and the ability to use them. We can all think what we want to think about the level of risk of going afield without a map, a compass, and the ability to use them. I happen to be among those who think it totally foolish. There's simply no denying that overall risks are increased for those without a map, a compass, and the ability to use them.

As to the AT in particular, at a given point in time during any given day's AT hike, the NOBO or SOBO hiker is likely to be on a heading including all 360 degrees of the compass. Add in some fog, heavy rain, fatigue, etc, and it can be far easier than one might believe to become disoriented. Now add a simple slip/fall, sudden illness, hypothermia, etc, and you're in real trouble--and quite possibly off of the trail out of earshot of some who may be able to help.

The effect of errors and omissions is cumulative--the Law of Serial Consequences. Becoming disoriented in and of itself is unlikely to cause injury or death, but it can most definitely play a role which is entirely avoidable if only the hiker had a map, a compass, and the ability to use them.

AO

[ernie84]

Methinks you just ratified the opinions of those who believe it's foolish, dumb, or at least unwise to backpack anywhere without a compass. You most certainly proved my own personal mantra: There is no complete substitute for a map, a compass, and the ability to them.

AO

Methinks you have selectively quoted me. As I suggested, her inability to use a compass was not the reason she died. It was poor decision making. Had she continued hiking in any direction, rather than just staying put, she would have eventually come to a road or trail.

I consider the decision to carry a compass on the AT similar to the decision to carry bear spray. Bears attacks are very rare but do occasionally happen. But I don't carry bear spray and I bet most of you don't either. Yeah, I guess you could wander off the trail and get yourself horribly lost. But it's very unlikely for an experienced hiker, similar to the risk of a bear attack.

Again, you can download a free compass app for your phone! You'll probably never use it on the AT though.



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[pickNgrin]

Again, you can download a free compass app for your phone! You'll probably never use it on the AT though.

Other times you will never use it are when: your battery is dead, your phone got wet and died, your screen broke, etc. When you need a compass, you need it to work. A basic Silva compass is functional, never runs out of batteries, is nearly indestructible, and weighs less than an ounce.

[ernie84]

Other times you will never use it are when: your battery is dead, your phone got wet and died, your screen broke, etc. When you need a compass, you need it to work. A basic Silva compass is functional, never runs out of batteries, is nearly indestructible, and weighs less than an ounce.

I personally wouldn't start out on a multi day trip without a protective case for by phone and a back power source. My phone has many other uses besides the compass, including keeping in touch with family and taking photos. So it's not like I am carrying anything extra.

I'm glad you like your Silva so much. Carry wherever you want. But keep in mind that it too can break or malfunction.


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[Uriah]

So, not sure of your point unless you are advocating hiking naked, going without food, and doing away with nearly 5000 years of technology in many cases.

While a valid case can be made for using a compass or not on the AT in three-season hiking, this "And yet somehow humans did without some of these so-called "essentials" for eons" argument is well, not correct.

Paul! Head over to CU and brush up on your human history! It is correct. Eons goes back quite a bit further than the dates you've provided, by hundreds of thousands of years; in our current incarnation we've been around much longer than any of these "essentials" we've invented, and the skills our ancestors gleaned allow us to exist in the relatively comfortable state we're in today (a state of less and less self-reliance). My point, then, is that they're not entirely essential, as in required.

Do I use them? Sure, when required. Are they required to walk an excessively marked, often shaded trail? Not at all. Is it foolish not to carry them? (Therein lay the debate...) A one-ounce compass? Why not?! But having it doesn't means having the wherewithal to understand its intended use. (Let me assure you: as a previous SAR volunteer, most those in need of rescue did not understand how to use a compass; having it did not help!)

We might deem a car or a smartphone or an Internet connection as necessary to safely exist in "today's world," thus "essential" to our survival, but we know that this isn't entirely the case. (Travel more and you'll witness as much: that much of humanity exists without these things.)

Humans have always had the same basic essentials: our metabolic needs (air, water, food) and our protective needs: clothing, and a place to call home (if even on our backs). Most everything (sex, transportation, psychological needs, job security, etc) else is superfluous, even today. Especially today. So while you sit at your desk at work, to pay for your requirements, I'll pay for mine and head out for a walk. Note the sunglasses::sun

[Mags]

. My point, then, is that they're not entirely essential, as in required...and more and more and more

Uriah, geez. I've seen less tap dancing from my six year old niece.

[Another Kevin]

The effect of errors and omissions is cumulative--the Law of Serial Consequences. Becoming disoriented in and of itself is unlikely to cause injury or death, but it can most definitely play a role which is entirely avoidable if only the hiker had a map, a compass, and the ability to use them.

There's no point in carrying a compass that you don't know how to use. On the AT in peak season, you're likely to be able to make your way without one, just as you mightn't carry a highway map to drive a couple of thousand miles on Interstate 95 - and for much the same reason: it's well traveled, and well marked, and pretty hard to go astray.

Sooner or later, at least some of us aspire to hiking trails that are less like a superhighway, or find ourselves doing so by accident. It's probably a good idea to have a road map for that trip on I-95, just in case there's a detour or you make a wrong turn somewhere. And we all know how far astray we can go if we just listen to the GPS Lady. The way I see it, it's the same on the trail. You'll eventually go astray and need to get back from straying.

Moreover, you're a lot less likely to panic, and get stupid as a consequence, if you've got the skills to become unlost. You can say to yourself, "gee, it's a while since I saw a blaze, what does the compass say? The trail is tending southwestward and losing elevation while the map shows it going westward on a ridge," when you have that map, compass, and ability to use them. You can react by whipping out the notebook and writing "14:50 - S of trail? Eroded woods road with stone wall on N side and overhanging hemlock tree." Then you can decide, with a cool head, whether to push on farther in hopes of spotting a blaze, or bail out on your emergency route, or try to backtrack to the trail, or whatever. That's much more likely to yield a response that will get you to where you want to go than, "OMG I'm LOST!!!!" But that blind panic is apparently where too many hikers find themselves.

Of course, learning land navigation is a slippery slope, which might turn you into an orienteer, or even a bush-whacko.

Really, how do you have the confidence to get 200 feet off the trail to do your business if you can't handle a compass? In the dense Eastern forest, you surely don't have a 200 foot sight line back to it. Maybe that's why there are so many paper flowers on the trail. Bleah.

[GoLight]

I was trying to find how many people get lost on the AT each year, but the only verifiable figures I´ve found so far are solely for Great Smokey Mountains National Park. They had 139 people lost in 2014 resulting in 103 search and rescue missions and 4 deaths.
In one notable case, three men were lost together on the AT. They couldn´t find the shelter so they burned their clothing and other items to keep warm. God, that is scary. Imagine first of all going into the mountains without a map and compass, and without a head light or flashlight for night walking and without basic outdoors skills for fire building. They were surrounded by wood, yet burned clothes to stay alive. That´s double stupid in my opinion.

[ernie84]

I was trying to find how many people get lost on the AT each year, but the only verifiable figures I´ve found so far are solely for Great Smokey Mountains National Park. They had 139 people lost in 2014 resulting in 103 search and rescue missions and 4 deaths.

Goof grief, man. The GSMNP is the most visited national park in the country. A lot of these search and rescue missions are for day hikers that start out on a 12 mile round trip at five o'clock in the afternoon. The sun starts going down and they freak out, whip out the cell phone, and call for help. Those numbers also include people who fall and break a leg or sprain an ankle. A compass is not going to help you if you break your leg.

[ernie84]

I was trying to find how many people get lost on the AT each year, but the only verifiable figures I´ve found so far are solely for Great Smokey Mountains National Park. They had 139 people lost in 2014 resulting in 103 search and rescue missions and 4 deaths.

I'm assuming you are referencing this article from the Asheville Citizen-Times:

http://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2015/07/07/smokies-among-busiest-national-parks-rescues/29815445/

The article notes there were 104 incidents involving 139 people in 2014. However, not all were "lost" as you claim. Not even the majority. Most incidents, 74, were for people who were ill or injured. Twenty-nine were for darkness!

Twenty-six involved either "insufficient information or an error in judgment or insufficient equipment, clothing or experience." Presumably this group includes the three knuckle heads from SC that burned their britches. Now, there might be one or two hikers that were otherwise prepared but wound up getting lost without a compass, but I doubt it.

[GoLight]

Jajajajaja, Ernie, chill man, we all know you are against compasses on the AT and we accept that. Let it go. We´re not trying to change your mind, we respect your decision even though we don´t agree with it and we certainly don´t want to encourage others to follow your example but we are just as certainly not going to condemn you because you don´t carry.
This GSMNP statistic I´m sharing is about all the other idiots who went out there without proper equipment. This is in no way a reflection on you personally or on your equipment habits. We all know the trail is deep from thousands of feet and there are white blazes every so often, but admit it, things happen and systems fall apart unexpectedly.
By the way, one of the reports I read was written by David AWOL Miller. He´s the guy who writes and publishes the annual AT Guide. He was talking about the time he himself got lost on the AT.

[ernie84]

Jajajajaja, Ernie, chill man, we all know you are against compasses on the AT and we accept that. Let it go. We´re not trying to change your mind, we respect your decision even though we don´t agree with it and we certainly don´t want to encourage others to follow your example but we are just as certainly not going to condemn you because you don´t carry.

I am not against carrying a compass on the AT, if that is what you chose to do. Like I said, carry whatever you want. I just don't think it is necessary. It is an opinion that is shared by many experienced hikers. However, you and others have characterized it as "dumb", "foolish", and "dead wrong". That hardly qualifies as respect. In fact, I would say that sounds more like condemnation.

I am perfectly willing to drop the subject and move on to other topics. It is you who are dredging up misleading statistics and tallying up message board posts.

[Mountain Mike]

Is a compass really needed on the AT? On most of it these days...maybe not. It's so well traveled & marked. Do I bring one, yes!! With a map. It gives me the chance to become unteathered. Freedom to explore more.

Living at a hostel for a season I enjoyed meeting many thru hikers. I did mine back in 88 & did have to use my compass several times. Times & methods have changed. Even when I mentioned 5-7 day resupplies on PCT to a few they said it wasn't doable. There were times on it that I was lucky if I saw trail twice a day navigating by map & compass due to high snow year.

If you want to limit yourself to hiking blaze by blaze, go for it. If you want to cut the teather & hit real wilderness, learn map & compass. Explore country not limited by batterie life.

[AfterParty]

I have sunnto core watch. And a cheap compass. I can't imagine trekking into wilderness without a map and compass.

[FlyFishNut]

I have the Suunto M-3 - great compass. Unlike most here, my exploits take me into the woods where only fire roads and dirt roads exist (my hunt club) or other areas that are not as well marked as the AT. Having said that, a compass is crucial and I do sometimes get turned around or need to stop and figure out where I am.

I cannot imagine going into the backcountry without a compass, but the AT is clearly marked and well traveled - so I could see navigating it without needing a compass. BUT, those times when you get disoriented, fogged/snowed in it can be a lifesaver. Just makes sense to bring one along.

[saltysack]

Would someone post a link to a good tutorial for proper compass use! Enough with the bickering!!! It's been ages since I've actually used one..I'm curious what maps folks are carrying....only maps I carry are the little ones in the guides or data books...not very useful for navigation with a compass.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Traffic Jam]

(Recommended to me by rhjanes and Another Kevin)

https://randallsadventure.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/map-compass.pdf

http://landnavigation.weebly.com/land-navigation-parts-1-2-3-and-4.html

[GoLight]

Thanks for the links, excellent.
I was lucky to start with an older brother who learned in the scouts. Later, for a refresher and more advanced learning I joined a Meet Up in my neighborhood that was doing recreational orienteering. That´s when I really blossomed. It is surprisingly quite a thrill to find all the points in an orienteering treasure hunt. Some of us do them with both compass and GPS so we can learn how to use both.

Search your neighborhood for an Meet Up orienteering group here: https://www.meetup.com

[Turk6177]

They make this tiny little device that has a whistle, compass, magnifying glass, etc. that is light and plastic. If you are looking at going the right direction vs. using a compass to navigate this may work. Now, that being said, the trail sometimes goes south while you are walking northbound based on the way it goes around mountains and gaps, etc. I find the best way to keep going the right way is to point your poles (if you use them) in the direction you are traveling if you have to leave the trail for any reason. As far as navigation goes, I have only lost the AT in a couple places near a lake in the 100 mile wilderness in ME. While I haven't seen the whole trail, the white blazes make it very easy to navigate.


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[GoLight]

Here´s a very helpful youtube video showing the Suunto M-3 description of its various parts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI617p5vqu4

and another video showing how to use the M-3 to orient yourself using a map.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jlt8g7_yw4

It takes about 10 minutes to learn the basics of navigation with map and compass. The compass costs about $30 at Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/SUUNTO-M-3-Compass-Color-Size/dp/B00WT5FT5A/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1473773157&sr=1-1&keywords=suunto+m-3

In my opinion we all have a responsibility to ourselves, our fellow hikers, our families and friends and the Search and Rescue personnel not to get lost, and we have a responsibility to help fellow hikers who are lost or confused find their way, even in a people wilderness like the AT.

[GoLight]

For another $10 you can buy the Suunto M2 which has the lid with sighting mirror. This is my favorite. I use the mirror for tick checks and shaving and once I used it to get a spec of grit out from under my eyelid.

https://www.amazon.com/Suunto-MC-2-360-NH-SS004239001/dp/B001N0ILS4/ref=sr_1_128?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1473773669&sr=1-128&keywords=compass

[madgoat]

One of the things I constantly tell my scouts is "the easiest way to not get lost is to stay found". Such a goofy statement makes them listen as I describe the following though. By that I mean know and track your position on a map. Be able to recognize surrounding landmarks. Keep aware of your general heading. Use your watch and general pace to be able to estimate how far you have gone from your last known location. And always have a rough guestimate of where you are at. If any of those things don't add up, then reevaluate and make a plan to get back on track. Granted, this is pretty easy to do on the AT with all the White Blazes. But we have all overshot a switchback only to have to turn around and find the correct route, or have had difficulty with a poorly marked section or blue blaze, or had to deal with a bad reroute.

If you are not interested in learning how to shoot bearings, plot routes, and navigate using map and compass, then any old keychain/watch strap/whistle mounted button compass will do. Heck, some of them weigh next to nothing and include a whistle and thermometer. But I would encourage everyone to learn some basic map and compass skills to help them and others out of a jam. If you have some map and compass skills though, I would encourage you to always carry a decent navigation compass and good topo map of your surroundings (CALTOPO is your friend!) Simple generic baseplate style compasses work best for me, but plenty of people learned on military style compasses or ones with sighting mirrors, so use what you are comfortable with)

A Silva Starter weighs in at 0.8oz, costs $10-$15, and is more than adequate for map and compass navigation if you have learned some basic skills like taking declination into account.

If you would rather not hassle with remembering to account for declination, then you need to get a compass with built in declination adjustment. Brunton's TruArc 3 has built in declination adjustment that requires no tools (most require a tiny screwdriver), weighs 1.1oz, and costs $15. In the most recent version of this compass, it has a global needle that will work in the Northern or Southern hemispheres. Unless a compass has a global needle, it will only work in the hemisphere it was made for. Not a big deal for most, but definitely an added perk.

If you want the flagship compass for navigation, a Suunto M-3 Global is a great investment. The larger baseplate makes it great for map and compass work. It has good declination adjustment using a tiny included screwdriver on the lanyard and a global needle. It weighs 1.7oz and costs around $50.

Personally, I prefer using the Silva Starter. It is cheap, lightweight, small, and keeps my skills sharp by forcing me to account for declination.

To me, carrying and knowing how to use a compass is not a HYOH thing. Carry a compass, learn some basic land navigation skills, maybe even learn some First Class scout skills that 11 and 12 year olds learn like finding directions day and night without a compass as a backup. Otherwise, you may be making yourself into a SAR burden. Not carrying a compass is dooable on the AT, but it seems silly to intentionally go out without such a simple, light, cheap tool, and necessary tool.

[futureatwalker]

I bought the Silva Expedition 4 compass earlier this year after taking a navigation course. I've used it for navigating some of the barren uplands here in Scotland. It has a little magnification thingy that great for zeroing in on detailed maps.

In terms of cost, how many compasses are you going to have in your life? Might as well buy something that's reliable.

Do you need it for the AT? Probably not, until you do.

[LoneRidgeRunner]

I ALWAYS have one even though I have never really needed it on the AT. I got in the habit years ago when I used to go into wilderness areas (Slickrock, etc) where there are no signs, blazes, etc and the trails can be almost impossible to see/follow because of little use compared to the AT and I just never got out of the habit and never will. They only weigh a few ounces and if you ever DO need it you'll be glad you have it.