View Full Version : What did I do wrong
FooFooCuddlyPoops
04-07-2016, 17:51
Hey guys,
So I went on a hike Sunday, the white oak/cedar run loop, with a few friends. We were going to do just a in and out of 6 miles, but decided to do the entire 8 miles loop. The hike started out immediately with a hellish downhill of rock steps. I am short, so all of the steps had me straining to reach down without having to jump.
It was probably 3-4 miles of down hill rock steps. A mile of gentle terrain. And the rest ether switch backs up straight up hill, or a steady uphill walk.
pre-hike: I had been sick the last four days with one hell of a sinus infection. I was still congested on the ride to the trail head, but it cleared right up with the hike. It was cold the day of the hike, and I didn't do any pre-stretch like a dumb-a$$.
Heres were here things get interesting: while the hike was fun, I noticed that I was weak in the legs. They felt out of place. I am usually a goat on rocks, but that day I felt like a elephant. I shouldn't of been that way since I hike every week, and walk a lot. My guess was that my sickness still effected my balance and I was still weak from the infection.
But...I pulled the top thigh muscles on my thighs. Monday, the day after the hike, I could barely walk. Stairs? I used railings like a crutch. I couldn't stand up from chairs, or lift my legs. I had never pulled those muscles before!
what do you think I did to strain those muscles? Was it obviously the downhill with no warm up? Or, maybe just the sickness combined with no warm up?
today, Thursday, I am still in some mild discomfort. I can kinda jog and go up steps, but downhill is still a sensitive area. I took it easy and iced my legs to let them heal right.
meanwhile...my feet felt fine in my brand new hiking shoes and Plantar Fasciitis insoles!!!! For the first time in my hiking life, I had absolutely no food pain.
I'd bet you didn't strain anything. Sounds like delayed-onset muscle soreness--you just overdid what your muscles were capable of. The soreness is a sign that your muscles were overworked and need a little time off to recuperate. I'd bet that if you did the hike again after a few more days to recover, you'd have much less pain following the hike.
It's pretty unlikely that you have an actual muscle strain (damage to the muscle or tendons) in both legs. One leg would be possible, but both would be a pretty big coincidence. If it is DOMS, the pain should go away within another day or two.
FooFooCuddlyPoops
04-07-2016, 18:14
I figured it was just something like over use, etc. it was just odd that it happened when I should of be okay on the hike. The downhill caught me off guard I guess. The back of my knees, that big tendon, did hurt like a sob the night of my hike.
I just consider this as a training hike for my section in May. �� I hiked while sick with some pretty serious grades. The pain didn't stop me from being happy and ready to hike it again.
Another Kevin
04-07-2016, 18:18
Muscle and joint aches are common with infections anywhere in the body.
One of the functions of white blood cells is rebuilding muscle and joint tissue. When there's an infection, the immune system diverts white blood cells to fighting it, leaving your muscles less able to recover. Moreover, when fighting infection, the white blood cells release chemicals called interleukins and cytokines, which promote inflammation. Some of these inflammatory chemicals wind up in the general circulation and trigger inflammation elsewhere in the body.
So I'd blame the sinus infection for most of the symptoms.
la.lindsey
04-07-2016, 18:18
I would guess that you're sore because of the new shoes and insoles. Different posture/gait is using different muscles in your legs.
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The only way to make a hard hike easier is to do an even harder hike first.
Lone Wolf
04-07-2016, 19:17
steps on a hiking trail are stupid
Starting out cold on terrain like that in your situation not being mindful of gradually adjusting to the possible deep step down jolting plodding along especially with others at their pace in a different situation rather than yours I've seen soreness...or worse... happen.
The other thing you did wrong is adopt a damn long User name. From now on it's FFCP. It sounds like an official title. :D
that's a demanding hike ...
FooFooCuddlyPoops
04-07-2016, 20:19
http://www.hikingupward.com/SNP/WhiteOakCedarRun/
that is the trail we did. It was a hard trail for me only because I just couldn't seem to pick up my pace. I felt weak the entire time we hiked, but not out of breath weak. My body just didn't have any energy.
Dogwood; my sn is from a show called avatar. Foofoocuddlypoops is the name of the baby saber tooth moose lion they found. It
stuck....haha. I don't mind the nickname.
oh, I could be sore from the insoles. I have been wearing everything at work the last few weeks, however, to help wear them in before my hike. This was just the first hike outside moderate terrain they have been worn on.
Ether way, I screwed up on my hike and buy still made it. All I can do is learn and keep going.
how do you guys warm up when you know you will be doing a steep section?
Slo-go'en
04-07-2016, 20:49
how do you guys warm up when you know you will be doing a steep section?
By going slowly and carefully.
Another Kevin
04-07-2016, 21:20
how do you guys warm up when you know you will be doing a steep section?
Quad, hamstring and Achilles stretches if I'm going up. Not much I can do for down - my knees are going to feel it.
One Half
04-07-2016, 21:26
I figured it was just something like over use, etc. it was just odd that it happened when I should of be okay on the hike. The downhill caught me off guard I guess. The back of my knees, that big tendon, did hurt like a sob the night of my hike.
I just consider this as a training hike for my section in May. �� I hiked while sick with some pretty serious grades. The pain didn't stop me from being happy and ready to hike it again.
downhill is more strenuous on your legs than uphill. don't worry, you will heal
Downhills are very hard. Get some trekking poles to take some of the strain off your legs. The gf and I did a 12 mile loop a couple weekends ago that had a 3000 ft elevation gain in about three miles. The descent was a lot of sliding down frozen, ice covered ledges. My legs were sore for three days afterwards. It happens.
Another Kevin
04-07-2016, 21:54
Downhills are very hard. Get some trekking poles to take some of the strain off your legs. The gf and I did a 12 mile loop a couple weekends ago that had a 3000 ft elevation gain in about three miles. The descent was a lot of sliding down frozen, ice covered ledges. My legs were sore for three days afterwards. It happens.
Ice axe glissades are fun. But are they ever hard on the body! A couple of winters ago I glissaded about a quarter mile down Blackhead (3960 feet) in the Catskills. On the walk out, my IT band seized up to the point where I just had to lie in the snow trying to stretch it for about fifteen minutes before I could get back on my snowshoes. The cramp was literally so bad that I couldn't stand without my leg buckling involuntarily. That leg hurt for a couple of days afterward. Then it was fine again.
No ice axes, Hillsound trail crampons. If we had gone up the same way we went down, we wouldn't have gone. It was just a bit beyond what we expected or was equipped to do, but it was fun none the less. One of the few hikes I wished I had an ice axe.
Another Kevin
04-07-2016, 22:20
No ice axes, Hillsound trail crampons. If we had gone up the same way we went down, we wouldn't have gone. It was just a bit beyond what we expected or was equipped to do, but it was fun none the less. One of the few hikes I wished I had an ice axe.
I hope you took off the Hillsounds for the slides. Never glissade while pointy!
You can use a trekking pole to steer on a glissade, but if you need to self-arrest, you'll most likely wind up with a broken pole. Better a pole than nothing, though.
Muscle and joint aches are common with infections anywhere in the body.
One of the functions of white blood cells is rebuilding muscle and joint tissue. When there's an infection, the immune system diverts white blood cells to fighting it, leaving your muscles less able to recover. Moreover, when fighting infection, the white blood cells release chemicals called interleukins and cytokines, which promote inflammation. Some of these inflammatory chemicals wind up in the general circulation and trigger inflammation elsewhere in the body.
So I'd blame the sinus infection for most of the symptoms.
Do you have any sources for this? I briefly browsed through the scientific literature on delayed onset muscle soreness and didn't see anything linking it to infections. What the OP is describing is not just run-of-the-mill soreness that you get when you're sick. They're describing soreness from overusing muscles. I don't think the illness had anything to do with it.
I've been a runner for years, and I have run through colds and other illnesses countless times. I've never had any extra soreness from doing a run while sick. Fatigue, yes. Pain, no. This sounds like a very simple case of pushing your muscles beyond what they're prepared for.
The biggest thing you did "wrong" is not doing your hike. My guess is there was a late minute decision to do the whole loop. People in your party might have given way to a let's get it done attitude. You should have let them go if that was the case or ask them to slow down because you weren't "feeling it." When folks hike in a party the common courtesy - the "Rule" - followed is only hike as fast as the slowest person. That's a given no matter where I stand as far as strength as a hiker when in a hiking party. This is common courtesy. You have to communicate where you are as a hiker though. That was not a time to go with the flow. You are a short legged person just getting over being sick. Your party should have been aware of that and everyone acted accordingly. Besides, White Oak canyon is a beautiful waterfall trail in Shenandoah NP especially after a heavy rain when not only the typical waterfalls are pumping but temporary waterfalls are being created from water going over the steep sides of the canyon in places. It's like a rain forested canyon Victoria Falls affair. Regardless, because of the scenery, steepness of trail, depth of some of the steps, slipperiness, and you're specific situation WOC and Cedar Run are places to SLOW DOWN. IMHO, that's what people should do hiking waterfalls trails anyway! I've seen several take nasty falls on waterfall trails and around waterfalls. WOC and CR being no exceptions.
There is also no shame. I know the Loop. There certainly are some very deep steps on the White Oak Canyon Tr. I've felt it too as an athletic fit giraffe with long well defined backpacker legs even on just a day hike at a moderate pace regardless if I hadn't recently been getting over being ill. Some of the deepest steps have flat rocks on the lower tread to break up the riser height. Last time I did this Loop the NPS added steps on some of the highest risers. Maybe, some made of wood and soil have washed out or sunken? You could see where people stepped outside the main tread widening the trail in places to break up the riser height too causing greater trail erosion. Because of the possible jolting going down steeper deeper height risers I also prefer doing this Loop going down Cedar Run and ascending WOC. Although, last time I experience some narrower muddy sometimes rocky "banana peel" rolly poly trail that has to be carefully descended on Cedar Run too.
IMO, for me, it's not so much the rate(pace in MPH), daily duration(hrs on the move), slabs, or even 1000's of ft of elevation change on decently tractionable terrain that I find so physical with hiking. FWIW, one of the more physical aspects IMO of hiking is navigating - ascending or descending - deep high risers. It's not good for the joints, ligaments, quads, possibly feet and ankles, possibly back, hips, etc descending deep risers especially under a load. I will avoid descending deep risers where I can especially with a weighted backpack to save my body.
Another Kevin
04-07-2016, 23:20
Do you have any sources for this? I briefly browsed through the scientific literature on delayed onset muscle soreness and didn't see anything linking it to infections. What the OP is describing is not just run-of-the-mill soreness that you get when you're sick. They're describing soreness from overusing muscles. I don't think the illness had anything to do with it.
I've been a runner for years, and I have run through colds and other illnesses countless times. I've never had any extra soreness from doing a run while sick. Fatigue, yes. Pain, no. This sounds like a very simple case of pushing your muscles beyond what they're prepared for.
You're right that delayed onset muscle soreness is a different phenomenon, but the original poster was reporting problems during the hike as well. Those problems are more likely to be cytokine release, or perhaps something else related to a feverish illness, such as dehydration or potassium deficiency. The illness also would make it harder to judge whether you're overdoing, particularly in an activity that's new to you.
I'll concede that it's probably some combination of illness-related muscle aches and DOMS.
I can say from personal experience that overuse injuries take longer to heal when you're fighting an infection elsewhere.
BTW, because of the steepness(in places), geology, soil structure, nature of WOC, erosion concerns, etc I can understand the need for steps on WOC. No place to really put in switchbacks for example.
how do you guys warm up when you know you will be doing a steep section?
By going slowly and carefully.
That works for me. Take tiny steps. Face into the hill and use your arms, if that helps. If the terrain is too steep (to the point where you need your hands and the poles aren't helping) then stash one or both of the poles. If it's a short steep section, sometimes I toss my poles down the hill. Make a traverse if you can, that is, zigzag across the fall line rather than going straight up or down it.
Pedaling Fool
04-08-2016, 07:17
From my experience static stretching in not an important thing to do prior to exercise; all my static stretching is done afterwards, so I don't see that as a cause.
On the issue of warming up, that also is not that important just for walking, there are a lot of times I don't warm up for a run, I just start slow and warm up during the run. So, unless you did some really hard downhilling, than I don't see a lack of a warm-up much of an issue, but if you did do some serious rock-hoping without a warm-up, than yes that may at least be a factor.
I tend to agree with Another Kevin. From my experience, when I'm sick and feeling it during any activity than that usually leads to problems. You say your sinuses cleared up, but you were feeling like an 'elephant' vs feeling like a goat. That feeling is most likely from you still recovering from your illness.
What exactly you did to cause that injury is hard to say and there's probably no one single action, but I think you illness was a significant factor.
The Solemates
04-08-2016, 07:38
What u did wrong is choosing your screen name :eek:
Gambit McCrae
04-08-2016, 08:12
I am blessed with mute muscles. I have to walk over 20 miles in a day for cramping, or tightness to set in, I have never stretched and at the beginning of the hiking year, my legs are always weak as I lay up and get fat and lazy during the winter. Medicine for sore muscles is more walking
Dehydration exacerbates post-hike muscle soreness. Your illness may have increased your need for water. If you were taking any medicines for the illness, they could have increased your need for water even more.
Usually once a year I end up miscalculating my water (impulsively hiking further with water planned for a shorter hike; dried-up water source...) and have to ration. I can usually count on having muscle soreness in my calves for a number of days afterwards.
illabelle
04-08-2016, 10:04
What u did wrong is choosing your screen name :eek:
Somehow when I see "FooFooCuddlyPoops" it always makes me smile a little. :)
But yeah, just foofoo or fufu for short.
Uncle Joe
04-08-2016, 10:07
At my age, I find if I'm off the trail for a bit or if I've only been doing walks without a pack then when I do hit the trail with a pack I suffer post-hike soreness considerably. It's one reason I bought a daypack with hip belts to keep my hips used to the pressure. I think everyone is spot on. You probably over-worked them. I've had soreness like that for days after a tough hike.
garlic08
04-08-2016, 10:18
From my experience static stretching in not an important thing to do prior to exercise; all my static stretching is done afterwards, so I don't see that as a cause.
On the issue of warming up, that also is not that important just for walking, there are a lot of times I don't warm up for a run, I just start slow and warm up during the run. So, unless you did some really hard downhilling, than I don't see a lack of a warm-up much of an issue, but if you did do some serious rock-hoping without a warm-up, than yes that may at least be a factor...
Yes to this! My hiking (and biking) injuries greatly decreased when I stopped my pre-hike stretching routine. I cringe now when I see people "warming up" at a trailhead by "bouncing" on cold tendons and muscles, like I used to do.
Always start slowly, and listen carefully to your body. You will have weak days and strong days.
Extreme fatigue happened to me after the 12-mile Superstition Crest traverse. I had come off AT and AZT thru hikes in the previous year, I thought I was in the shape of my life, but that hike kicked my butt and left me limping for days. Similarly, I was in shape for a Grand Canyon hike, but the descent route I took left me with "sewing machine legs" at the bottom. Sometimes, fatigue just gets you.
This happens to people even on a thruhike. You might be in shape cardio wise but as the terrain changes you use different muscles than you are used to and end sore for a day or two.
She wasn't just "walking" or running. And likely not on a walk as one might experience in pancake FL terrain on highly maintained tread. She was on a loop that basically was all up and all down with a little bit of flat. The ups and downs were on steep sections of trail at times with some high height risers built out of stone and wood. There IS some "hard downhilling and uphilling!" There are fatiguing segments of this loop REGARDLESS if getting over being sick! HIGH RISERS are fatiguing and physically demanding whether ascending or descending. They are hard on the body for anyone even a healthy fit long legged individual going at their pace and not getting over being sick. This is a WATERFALL TRAIL hike virtually ALWAYS hiking next to the streams other than the short Connector Trail segment. Particularly, WOC is somewhat steep in some sections especially in occasionally rather narrow canyon(gorge) segments. Building and maintaining quality trail is challenging on parts of the WOC TR. Additionally, Cedar Run has some switchbacks and slippery wet muddy segments with also some exposed muddy sometimes wet rather treacherous slippery rock with some good height rock steps. She's a little legged person. That usually calls for some light static stretching( NOT BOUNCING ON COLD MUSCLES!) at the TH in my book knowing what I'm going to experience. It calls for going mindfully as far as footing and possibly slowly up and CERTAINLY down these high risers especially after getting over being sick and especially for a little legged person. It calls for even a long legged person to possibly reduce the step down/step up riser heights by breaking the HIGH riser height up into shorter height steps. This is what people are doing in WOC stepping off trail making the trail wider in places adding to erosion problems in the narrowest parts of WOC, placing large flat rocks at the base of the highest risers, and the NPS creating two, maybe even three, steps where there might have been one higher step.
This is a well known hike with excellent beta. One doing this Loop has ample opportunity to know what it entails. It's obvious people are commenting on the situation without knowing this loop's terrain and trail conditions.
BY FFCP comments it's obvious she should have went slower. Compounding the lingering fatigue from illness and fatiguing terrain - and leading to possible injury - was that she wasn't going her pace doing her hike. She tried keeping up with others in her party.
"Always start slowly, and listen carefully to your body. You will have weak days and strong day"
It's easy to say and do this as a lone wolf type hiker. Different dynamic in a hiking party. All in the group have to be on the same page where communication and being aware of individual abilities goes a long way to being respectful of the group dynamic.
http://www.hikingupward.com/SNP/WhiteOakCedarRun/ Look at the trail description, comments, and elevation profile. This is one of the premier hikes in S NP IMO.
Another Kevin
04-08-2016, 18:10
Yes to this! My hiking (and biking) injuries greatly decreased when I stopped my pre-hike stretching routine. I cringe now when I see people "warming up" at a trailhead by "bouncing" on cold tendons and muscles, like I used to do.
"Bouncing" is a horribly bad idea. When I say that I do Achilles stretching, what I mean is slow calf raises - and what's really important is the negative part of the cycle. Extend the Achilles very, very slowly - 10 seconds per rep is good - while bearing weight on it. I find that I have to do that even before my daily walk or there will be trouble, but I've got existing trouble in that area already. The same thing with quads - s-l-o-w kneeling or ground stretches, and kneeling is better because there's weight on it while it's extending.
Then the same stretches when cooling down.
Another thing, if you're aware of muscle complaints while on the move, is that a 5-15 minute stop is deadly. It allows lactate time to accumulate but not enough time for it to dissipate again. If you're working hard enough to feel the burn, and break for water and a snack, either get moving again within about five minutes or sit for twenty. Elevating your legs at a rest stop helps.
In the last few years, all of my hiking injuries have come in falls. I need to work on balance, but I'm afraid I may be up against my natural limits there. It could be that my core isn't as strong as it ought to be, but I think that I'm also fighting some dysequilibrium, which can't be fixed with exercise.
When focusing on balance, footwork, leg strength, and cardio I love the lower impact work outs that can be done on trampolines(I have one and so do my two sisters and bro), in pools(in water, remember Danielson working on balance in the Pacific's waves?, worked for him and me too!, read on), and in soft sand(like a beach or sugar sand roads, could even be at a lake beach). Doing standing toe raises, including one legged standing toe raises, start out by just doing one legged balancing adding difficulty as you advance, especially good on trampolines and in the ocean), walking curbs in parking lots, and on parking lines at night when there is no traffic is helpful to me. In the community pool late on a weeknight I'll drop the stationary bike(clean stationary bike!) in the low end of the pool and pedal away. Great low impact workout. These lower impact water bicycle workouts are gaining popularity at mainstream gyms. Alternatively, I'm sure there's a lake near you. When I lived in FL I'd throw on a old slightly weighted backpack and trail runners and walk in knee deep water along the coast in the Gulf of Mexico. Then, I'd mix it up hiking up and down the soft dunes. That was great! It strengthened muscles not normally heavily relied upon. It's there if you want it enough!
somers515
04-09-2016, 07:39
What works for me is to start hiking the trail slowly for the first 5-10 minutes and then pull off and do some stretching. Then throughout the day if I ever feel tightness I'll call for a quick stretch break and then after I restart slow down a little again after that. The idea is to ease into the activity and also let the muscles warm up slightly before stretching them. I'm not a doctor or a physical therapist so if there are any reading this thread please chime in on what best practice is.