Electrolyte mixes

[garminator]

Does anyone add these to their water throughout their hike?

[Wise Old Owl]

Yea - both Mio Energy and Power aid zero When I want something very different Lipton Peach Tea.

[Hosh]

I have not done the AT, but I love Cytomax for both hiking and biking. It was a great boost to hike up and out of the Grand Canyon. It would be heavy for a thru hike but worth it on a high elevation per mile stint.

[MuddyWaters]

Electroytes are good

[daddytwosticks]

Blue Gatoraide powder. I keep it in a tiny nalgene bottle and dump some in my water bottle as needed. :)

[Clyhde]

Vitalyte for the win.

[nsherry61]

In the heat of summer I often add nuun tablets to one of my water bottles. Some people will add a pinch of table salt to their water for this purpose.

[bigcranky]

Gatorade powder, in the little packets, and Emergen-C packets. Very useful specially in hot weather. For me, anyway.

[garminator]

Awesome, thanks guys!

[Odd Man Out]

I too am trying NUUN this summer.

[peakbagger]

I use Nuun and carry it on group hikes for folks who haven't been hydrating well. If someone is complaining about headaches or leg cramps I make then down a bottle. It makes a big difference. I used to use gatoraide powder but even diluted it has too much sugar. If its hot weather I usually down one at the end of the days hiking.

The home made version is basically Morton Lite salt with some sort of flavoring until you can tolerate it. It has a 50/50 blend of potassium chloride and sodium chloride.

They sell several versions of Nuun, some with caffeine.

[Captain Blue]

I use powered packets of Pedialyte. Works great. Don't let the name scare you. It's for adults too. Compared to Gatorade powder Pedialyte has less sugar, more salt and more potassium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedialyte

You can find it in almost any grocery store too. Head for the diapers aisle.

[CamelMan]

No. I'm planning to take Emergen-C, though. Fruit is heavy.

[WingedMonkey]

85% of thru hikers that consume electrolyte mixes on a thru hike fail.

:D

[RockDoc]

Glorified sugar.... you don't need it. Eat real food and drink the wonderful clean mountain water.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Glorified sugar.... you don't need it. Eat real food and drink the wonderful clean mountain water.

I had never realized that dietary salt and potassium were glorified sugar. :rolleyes:

[Sarcasm the elf]

For my part, if I am sweating a lot usually add 1/4teaspoon of Morton's lite salt (a salt/potassium blend) to a liter bottle of whatever I'm drinking and I do this once or twice a day. I can't prove that it does anything physiologically besides making me feel better, but it certainly does make me believe that it's doing something.

[nsherry61]

85% of thru hikers that consume electrolyte mixes on a thru hike fail. :D
Damn, I love statistics. :banana

And 10% of all thru hikers that start the trail finish? ;)


For my part, if I am sweating a lot usually add 1/4teaspoon of Morton's lite salt (a salt/potassium blend) to a liter bottle of whatever I'm drinking and I do this once or twice a day. I can't prove that it does anything physiologically besides making me feel better, but it certainly does make me believe that it's doing something.
There are plenty of studies that show that salt makes a very real measurable physiological difference in people that are exerting themselves and sweating a lot.

The most relevant question I see is regarding the need for more complex or expensive salts instead of just table salt or Morton's lite. Probably 80% of people can get all the electrolytes they need from a pinch of table salt in each liter of water. There are certainly a few people that benefit from the potassium in lite salt, but only a very small number, maybe 1%, that actually benefit from the other trace salts in more complex electrolyte mixes. Most of us just don't sweat enough of the trace salts and we get enough in our diet to cover our needs.

I think the real point is to freely experiment with what works for each of us, and not assume that for most of us there is any real reason for anything more complex that a pinch of table salt in our drinks.

[daddytwosticks]

85% of thru hikers that consume electrolyte mixes on a thru hike fail.

:D

Oh yeah? Well I read somewhere that 89% of all statistics are made up. :)

[Malto]

I am a big believer in electrolyte supplements, not because others say but because I have tested my own body in a wide variety of conditions. You can easily make an exact copy of Hammers enduralyte recipe by mixing 41g of Mortons Lite Salt with 108g of Calcium Magnesuim complex. It makes 100 equivalent servings.

one final note, this is an area that gets a wide variety of opinions ranging from needless to crucial. Not surprising since there is a huge range of bodies, paces, durations and conditions, all which will impact the perceived effectiveness of taking the supplements. I went from cramping up at the end of every long day to eliminating it completely when I take the proper amount. I only had cramps twice on my thru hike, both days when I ran out of my capsules. EYOE!

[rocketsocks]

100% of people who take salts on a regular basis will develope high blood pressure. I like supplements...nunn.

[Vegan Packer]

I haven't before, but I am thinking about bringing along some Nuun tablets for this season.

[MtDoraDave]

For me (a week at a time), I've found that there's enough sodium and sugar in the food I eat during the day that I don't need to add stuff to the water. The mountain spring or stream water tastes so much better than the treated "city water" I'm used to drinking.
Perhaps, in hot sections when I sweat a lot, I may bring some packets of additive. *shrug* I work outside frequently, and in the summer time I often drink 4 to 5 quarts of water every day. My opinion (based on anecdotal evidence) is that cramping is more often caused by being dehydrated rather than from salt or potassium deficiencies - as are most headaches.

[displacedbeatnik]

I use packets of Electrolyte Fizz from the Vitamin Shoppe. It's the only one I've found that actually tastes really good.

[linus72]

saturday was the second time i've had leg cramps on a long, tough hike. i bought some Nuun tablets yesterday which i hope will help. My only dilemma is i use a hydration bladder so maybe its best to just pop it in there before I go. Does it leave a residue? does it spoil if i pack my bag the day before? does it mean all my water will be flavored while in there? thanks in advance!

[displacedbeatnik]

My only dilemma is i use a hydration bladder so maybe its best to just pop it in there before I go. Does it leave a residue? does it spoil if i pack my bag the day before? does it mean all my water will be flavored while in there? thanks in advance!

I know the mixes leave a residue taste. I personally use a separate, empty half liter plastic bottle for all of my powdered mixes (both teas and electrolyte solutions).

[Badger Ski]

Salts good. Ask a WWII South Pacific or Vietnam vet.

[Badger Ski]

Salts good. Ask a WWII South Pacific or Vietnam Vet.

[linus72]

in lieu of carrying another bottle, are there gels or suckers i could pop in my mouth when cramping? salt sounds viable but not sure i'd want to drink salty water all day. not very refreshing.

[peakbagger]

Salt doesn't do it alone, you need potassium. You can always carry a banana or two.

[Wise Old Owl]

85% of thru hikers that consume electrolyte mixes on a thru hike fail.

:D

The big grin is very informative....:D

[Malto]

in lieu of carrying another bottle, are there gels or suckers i could pop in my mouth when cramping? salt sounds viable but not sure i'd want to drink salty water all day. not very refreshing.
You can easily fill capsules or buy them if that's your wish. I can tolerate a low level in a drink but would rather use capsules.

[nsherry61]

. . . My only dilemma is i use a hydration bladder so maybe its best to just pop it in there before I go. Does it leave a residue? does it spoil if i pack my bag the day before? does it mean all my water will be flavored while in there? thanks in advance!

The biggest problem with any electrolytes or sports drinks in bladders is that they become lovely nutrient broths for bacteria and you have to clean your bladder way, way more often to keep it from getting gross. I also like to have just pain water to drink, so keeping my electrolyte drinks in a separate bottle works very well.


in lieu of carrying another bottle, are there gels or suckers i could pop in my mouth when cramping?. . .

The easiest is either salt tablets like Saltabs or capsules like Hammer Edurolytes. That way you just pop the pills in your mouth as needed, chase them with a drink and be done with it.


. . . salt sounds viable but not sure i'd want to drink salty water all day. not very refreshing.

Actually, if you are putting enough salt in your water to make it taste like salt water, you are putting too much in. Really, just a liberal pinch per liter works well. And then, yes, you cant just barely taste the salt, and it isn't bad. I highly recommend that you try it at home tonight to see.

[One Half]

I had never realized that dietary salt and potassium were glorified sugar. :rolleyes:

Most of the "electrolyte" drinks people use are exactly that. Skip the Gatorade and powerade stuff.

Haven't read all of this but leaving it here for others

http://paleoedge.com/best-and-worst-electrolyte-drinks/

[One Half]

100% of people who take salts on a regular basis will develope high blood pressure. I like supplements...nunn.


Not at all true. And not all salt is equal. We use either Himalayan salt or Celtic Sea Salt.

[Miel]

100% of people who take salts on a regular basis will develope high blood pressure. I like supplements...nunn.

Not always. My BP is typically dangerously low. But in my physician's efforts to help me avoid meds, I am on a high potassium, high salt diet. IOW, in this case, I don't have to watch what I eat (but must add extra salt - I am prone to fainting without it.)

[ScareBear]

Here's a tip, get the Original Alka Seltzer that has no acetemenophen. I thinks its Alka Seltzer Gold. It has the same ingredients as most commercial rehydration "salts" or tablets and the same ingredients as the UN rehydration salt packets, sans sugar. Its 1/10th of the cost of commercial hydration stuff. Its all the electrolytes you really need.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Most of the "electrolyte" drinks people use are exactly that. Skip the Gatorade and powerade stuff.

Haven't read all of this but leaving it here for others

http://paleoedge.com/best-and-worst-electrolyte-drinks/



:D


http://youtu.be/kIZ9YuPm_Ls

[peakbagger]

saturday was the second time i've had leg cramps on a long, tough hike. i bought some Nuun tablets yesterday which i hope will help. My only dilemma is i use a hydration bladder so maybe its best to just pop it in there before I go. Does it leave a residue? does it spoil if i pack my bag the day before? does it mean all my water will be flavored while in there? thanks in advance!

Don't do it, it does leave residue. I did it to my favorite MSR bladder and had a heck of time trying to get it clean. After that I make sure I have a gatoraide bottle with me and mix up Nuun in the bottle.

[colorado_rob]

I never was much of an electrolyte-supplement person until I suffered mild hyponatremia on a grand canyon rim-rim-rim a few years ago... yikes, this can be really dangerous stuff. Not really applicable though to hiking the AT though (for me). Still, I take a combination of good old Gatorade and Nuun tablets, just modest amounts to keep the various potassium / magnesium / sodium's topped off. I find that these also help with staving off cramping. Yes, it's possible this is only a placebo thing, but I think not. I do get sick and tired of Nuun, though, after a couple weeks. Gatorade is easier to drink for me in general.

I also run very low on blood pressure, 100-110/60-70 so therefore have no restrictions on salt, so tend to carry and eat very salty foods that help keep the sodium, at least, up. It's those other electrolytes that can run low if you aren't diligent with your diet (and I'm certainly not diligent!).

BTW: salt does not create blood pressure problems unless you run high already. Pure nonsense. Also: Sugar is sugar and salt is salt, despite marketing hype/nonsense.

[handlebar]

I sweat a lot. When hiking in hot climates I can almost scrape the dried salt from my hiking shirt. I have been adding Thermotabs (salt tablets containing sodium chloride and potassium chloride) to my dinners. Recently, I've started adding another product that contains both the above salts as well as a magnesium salt in capsules. The addition of magnesium seems to ward off leg cramps. These tablets are very light weight.

[nsherry61]

. . . Also: Sugar is sugar and salt is salt, despite marketing hype/nonsense.
Actually, NaCl, KCl, MgSO4, MnCl, CaCl2 are all very different salts and all very much salt. Table salt is NaCl. Sea salts are primarily NaCl with tiny amounts of contaminants including small amounts of all the other salts. Morton's Lite salt is a mix of NaCl and MgCl. Most of your electrolyte mixes are primarily NaCl with small, but for some people important, percentages of other salts, especially those containing K and Mg.

Since our bodies have some reservoir of these salts (electrolytes) we can sweat a little and not need a supplement. Since 90%+ of the salt we perspire is NaCl, unless one is sweating profusely for a very long time, simple table salt is all that most people need to supplement. But, we are all different, and some of us sweat much more than others, and some of us sweat slightly different salt ratios, so people have found that some combinations of salt supplements work better than others for their personal physiology, especially during longer and hotter exercising.

[colorado_rob]

Actually, NaCl, KCl, MgSO4, MnCl, CaCl2 are all very different salts and all very much salt. Table salt is NaCl. Sea salts are primarily NaCl with tiny amounts of contaminants including small amounts of all the other salts. Morton's Lite salt is a mix of NaCl and MgCl. ....I was referring to NaCl being NaCl, I realize there are plenty of chemical compounds called "salts". I should have been more specific. Same thing as "sugar" being "sugar", realizing there are plenty of different kinds (Fructose, sucrose, glucose). For example, the sugar in a banana is pretty much the same sugar as in a handful of jelly beans, though most people will swear the sugar in a banana (or apple) is somehow "better for you". It's not the sugar in a banana that is better for you than jelly bean sugar, it's the fact that three are other nutrients in a banana (vitamins and minerals and electrolytes), but really no other nutrients in a handful of jelly beans.

[Odd Man Out]

... Morton's Lite salt is a mix of NaCl and MgCl....

Actually it's NaCl and KCl. A little MgCl2 may be added as an anti caking agent.

http://www.mortonsalt.com/home-product/morton-lite-salt-mixture-2/
http://www.mortonsalt.com/article/morton-lite-salt-mixture-nutritional-facts/

[CamelMan]

Ahem. (http://smile.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serious-Problem-Overhydration-Endurance/dp/145042497X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460473360&sr=8-1&keywords=waterlogged) People used to run marathons without drinking or eating anything.

This is actually my biggest health concern with going stoveless and resupplying close to the trail--all the added sodium in prepackaged foods. I expect that my body will use urine and sweat to offload the extra sodium to some extent, which is why people who eat too much sodium have salty, crusty sweat. The body won't, however, keep excreting sodium until you collapse and die. That would be ridiculous for a species that evolved in the African heat. As Waterlogged (http://smile.amazon.com/Waterlogged-Serious-Problem-Overhydration-Endurance/dp/145042497X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460473360&sr=8-1&keywords=waterlogged) shows, serum sodium is not directly related to sodium intake. It's tightly controlled unless somebody has SIADH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndrome_of_inappropriate_antidiuretic_hormone_sec retion): Syndrome of Inappropriate Antidiuretic Hormone Secretion.

Normally I don't add any salt to my food. As long I have vegetables I'll make the IOM's minimum of 500mg, and if I fall short I don't sweat it. I don't use any electrolytes on purpose, but sometimes I've used Hammer and Clif gels, and my favorite "unsalted" pretzels still have plenty of salt in the dough. I exercise in summer in humid TN without any problems.

Not using extra salt has reduced my water weight (my weight can vary about 5 pounds), and my water throughput so I don't need to carry as much water to be comfortable. During a road trip, I used to be the first person who had to pull over to take a leak, now I'm the last. (Unless I'm pounding caffeine, which is another story.) My blood pressure tests at 120/80 or below, even at the dentist. (Not completely because of salt, I bet, but still very nice. I'm not sure why the strip-mall dentist checks blood pressure--maybe so they know if you need full sedation.) When I first tapered down my intake I was a little scared, so I actually asked (https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=16465&p=149767&hilit=salt+hiking#p149767). Perfectly safe if done over the course of a few days.

On the hydration side of the equation, I drink when I'm thirsty. If I'm not thirsty, I don't force myself to drink, especially if I'm exerting myself a lot. Even though I don't have any evidence I'm prone to SIADH, sometimes I'm on a sodium rollercoaster because of "cheating" with commercial food, and it's better to be comfortable than sorry. Last May I stayed at Laughing Heart for a couple of days to do a loop/lollipop to the Rich Mtn lookout tower, and after dark an exhausted hiker walked in saying she felt terrible, but couldn't force any more water down. Somebody prone to SIADH could possibly have overhydrated, passed out and died. If somebody is weak, dizzy, etc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia#Signs_and_symptoms), always ask them if they're THIRSTY before giving them water. Nobody's going to die of dehydration right away.

More information on the evils of salt from my favorite dietician: https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=23557

Sorry for the wall of text, that should be a blog entry or something.