Leave no trace ideas

[twistwrist]

Hey guys! I'm curious of what tips and tricks you use to leave no trace when out in the backcountry?

I highly suggest carrying a trophy trowel! It weighs and costs very little, and truly helps dig the recommended 6-8 inch cathole that a boot heel simply cannot dig. This is the level where poop composts the most efficiently AND no one's hiking boot willl encounter your poop. Not only that, when you've gotta go fast, the trowel is a handy little tool!

Also, I try to use my hiking pole to bury toilet paper I see strewn on the side of the trail. :( Please pack out your TP, or at the very least, bury it in the cathole you dug.

What are some ways you strive to leave no trace? With the increasing crowds on the AT each year, it's more important than ever that we all take responsibility for our actions out there.

[nsherry61]

I don't use toilet paper at all. A good cleaning with fingers and water gets that area cleaner than TP and reduces irritation and rash, and doesn't contribute more TP to either my garbage bag or the wilderness. The associated washing hands with soap and water more regularly also keeps you and yours cleaner and less likely to pass on disease.

I make a concerted effort to stay on the trail tread if at all possible instead of widening the trail or creating side trails to avoid minor obstacles.

I walk in softer and lighter shoes instead of boots, which can make a significant difference.

Cooking dinner an hour or more before stopping for the day, and getting up and hiking before stopping for breakfast, both dramatically reduce impact on camp sites especially since, if you aren't cooking in camp, you are more likely to camp in places further from water and thus also further from overused camp sites. Also, cooking before stopping can extend your hiking day and reduce food odors and animal issues where you are camping.

I use Google Maps street view instead of actually walking the trails to eliminate impact all together. ;-) The Grand Canyon on Google is fantastic!

Fat bike tires leave less impact than shoes, so riding fat bikes is a great help! Fat bikes can actually help smooth out soft, rough or rutted trail tread.

[saltysack]

I don't use toilet paper at all. A good cleaning with fingers and water gets that area cleaner than TP and reduces irritation and rash, and doesn't contribute more TP to either my garbage bag or the wilderness. The associated washing hands with soap and water more regularly also keeps you and yours cleaner and less likely to pass on disease.

I make a concerted effort to stay on the trail tread if at all possible instead of widening the trail or creating side trails to avoid minor obstacles.

I walk in softer and lighter shoes instead of boots, which can make a significant difference.

Cooking dinner an hour or more before stopping for the day, and getting up and hiking before stopping for breakfast, both dramatically reduce impact on camp sites especially since, if you aren't cooking in camp, you are more likely to camp in places further from water and thus also further from overused camp sites. Also, cooking before stopping can extend your hiking day and reduce food odors and animal issues where you are camping.

I use Google Maps street view instead of actually walking the trails to eliminate impact all together. ;-) The Grand Canyon on Google is fantastic!

Fat bike tires leave less impact than shoes, so riding fat bikes is a great help! Fat bikes can actually help smooth out soft, rough or rutted trail tread.

Remind me not to shake your hand if we meet![emoji38] 6-8" deep sounds great in theory but it seems we'd be lucky if they would put a few leaves over tp and all!! After my recent FHT hike I was disgusted by the piles of tp and crap sitting basically on the trail with no attempt to cover.....some even left there shi! Kit Inc ziplock bag and all...sad but seems many folks have no respect! My dog knows better! He goes off trail to crap and covers it!

[Miel]

No products containing microbeads! Even though 2017 will bring an end to their sale in the USA, many people will still have the products stockpiled at home. These are an environmental MENACE, particularly to our waterways.

If you are carrying ANY kind of plastic that needs discarding, try to discard it at a store of which you are sure recycles plastic bags. (Whole Foods does - I hope I can trust them.) These are harmful to critters, many of whom think they are food; it lodges in the intestine, or chokes them.

A six-pack of soda can be irresistible to me on long hiking and biking days. But now, not so much. Unless you are committed to cutting up the yokes, don't purchase any beverage that comes with these plastic disasters. Even with the photo-degradable thing, a feathered or furry animal can choke to death well before the time it takes for the yokes to break down.

If you must use straws, try ones made from bamboo or metal, and RE-USE THEM. These are also a hazard to our wildlife friends.

Now what to do about plastic condiment packages. As light as they are, I am thinking of re-usable mini bottles (like the kind the TSA recommends instead).

No Baggies, Ziplocks, etc. with the little plastic tabs on them for sealing.

I'm less concerned about pooplah (except near the waterways) than I am about the evils of plastics that don't get re-used/recycled.

Think green; live green.

[Miel]

Thank you, Twist, for posting this ESSENTIAL thread.

[nsherry61]

Remind me not to shake your hand if we meet![emoji38] . . .
Why is it that us American's are so squeamish about basic body functions? Do you never wash your nether regions in the shower? Do you avoid shaking hands with people that have just gotten out of the shower? Does cleaning yourself in the shower make you feel unclean, or do you feel cleaner afterwords? Do you always wash your hands after wiping with TP, especially in the woods? Many people do not, and it doesn't sound like you stress about shaking peoples' hands in general.

FWIW, I do follow the Arabic tradition of only ever using your left hand for hygiene and your right hand to shake hands and eat with. 80% of people in the world don't use toilet paper and many consider TP to be gross and dirty, like trying to clean yourself by wiping down with paper towels instead of taking a shower.

[TheWhiteWalker]

I think we just found patient zero of the norovirus.

[CamelMan]

toilet paper and many consider TP to be gross and dirty, like trying to clean yourself by wiping down with paper towels instead of taking a shower.

I was considering starting a thread about tips for defecating, but I think I'm going to try your suggestion. In civilization I always try to use wet toilet paper because I like to be clean and because it's gentler. Otherwise I feel like I'm just smearing s*t around, especially with a high-fiber vegan diet, LOL. I managed to get to Fontana using only privies, but I don't want to use privies that are disgusting and full to the rim, or carry toilet paper or non-biodegradable (IIRC) wet wipes anymore, so I think you might have the best solution. I'll have to carry soap and sanitizer anyway, since I don't intend to blue blaze the "fecal-oral route (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fecal-oral_route)".

[MuddyWaters]

FWIW, I do follow the Arabic tradition of only ever using your left hand for hygiene and your right hand to shake hands and eat with. 80% of people in the world don't use toilet paper and many consider TP to be gross and dirty, like trying to clean yourself by wiping down with paper towels instead of taking a shower.

Arabic countries have a hose in the bathroom, lovingly termed by outsiders a ,"muslim shower". More like a garden hose and sprayer than a bedet. Inside of bathrooms are often soaked with water everywhere.

Never met anyone who considered tp gross. In some places they just dont have it. It works better than the firehose approach. People that wear sandals and live in sand, use the hose to wash feet a lot. Not uncommon to walk into public bathrooms and find someone washing feet in sink.

Also if note the flawed design of low water level in bowl, leaves poopy stuck to bowl that must be blasted off every use

34533

[Sarcasm the elf]

Arabic countries have a hose in the bathroom, lovingly termed by outsiders a ,"muslim shower". More like a garden hose and sprayer than a bedet. Inside of bathrooms are often soaked with water everywhere.

34533

And people ask me why I don't travel more... :banana

[saltysack]

Arabic countries have a hose in the bathroom, lovingly termed by outsiders a ,"muslim shower". More like a garden hose and sprayer than a bedet. Inside of bathrooms are often soaked with water everywhere.

Don't give them any ideas! If I see someone squatting over the water source splashing there sphincter I'll puke! Dr B doesn't cut it for removing ship from under your finger nails...better carry some bleach...[emoji51]

[Sarcasm the elf]

Don't give them any ideas! If I see someone squatting over the water source splashing there sphincter I'll puke! Dr B doesn't cut it for removing ship from under your finger nails...better carry some bleach...[emoji51]

I'm starting to understand why the 3 Litre Camelbak bladders have such a long hose on them.

[saltysack]

Ha...bite valve has a new meaning!


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[nsherry61]

. . . I think I'm going to try your suggestion. . .
It works quite well. It does take some practice to figure out all the angles. Squatting in a bathtub and just experimenting with how to best trickle water and tilt yourself to get the water flow where you need it while keeping your water bottle well out of the way and clean it probably a worthwhile exercise.

It's really much more civilized than scraping with dry paper. ;-)

The other defecation tip I have (also works well for women when urinating) is to squat with your pants pulled down just to your knees, so your behind is hanging well below your pants, so you pants are safely out of the way. With practice, I think squatting in the woods is more convenient and more pleasant than trying to find something to sit across or against and way nicer than using a privy with no view, probably stinky smells and who know what other dirtiness.

[DuneElliot]

A six-pack of soda can be irresistible to me on long hiking and biking days. But now, not so much. Unless you are committed to cutting up the yokes, don't purchase any beverage that comes with these plastic disasters. Even with the photo-degradable thing, a feathered or furry animal can choke to death well before the time it takes for the yokes to break down

Think green; live green.

Glad I'm not the only one to be aware of this. I worked in wildlife rescue and rehab for years and those can yokes were the bane of our existance! I've seen so many horrorific injuries from them.

If you must buy a six pack please cut every single loop open...even the tiny ones. I think these things need to be banned (like in the UK) but that's probably wishful thinking, so all I can do is to educate people to the horrors of these things!

[saltysack]

It works quite well. It does take some practice to figure out all the angles. Squatting in a bathtub and just experimenting with how to best trickle water and tilt yourself to get the water flow where you need it while keeping your water bottle well out of the way and clean it probably a worthwhile exercise.

It's really much more civilized than scraping with dry paper. ;-)

The other defecation tip I have (also works well for women when urinating) is to squat with your pants pulled down just to your knees, so your behind is hanging well below your pants, so you pants are safely out of the way. With practice, I think squatting in the woods is more convenient and more pleasant than trying to find something to sit across or against and way nicer than using a privy with no view, probably stinky smells and who know what other dirtiness.

Seriously how much water does it take? Ive given birth to a navy seal at 120' while scuba diving. The fanning technique works well underwater and no contact required..I use this regularly when offshore but can't see having nearly enough water on trial to be effective. I guess you could have a dedicated douche water bottle to wash your arse...better mark in clearly! Think I'll stick to ship tickets and finish off with a degradable wet wipe for that fresh feeling!

[saltysack]

Trial=trail daaaa


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[nsherry61]

Seriously how much water does it take? . . . I guess you could have a dedicated douche water bottle to wash your arse...better mark in clearly!. . .
It can be done with about 250 ml of water if you're careful (including hand washing). 500 ml of water is plenty. Since I frequently carry a liter or less water with me between water sources, I will often wait until I am near a water source, then make sure I am well away from the water source and trail and camp sites (if any) to do my duty and wash up, then head down to the water and fill up my bottle as needed before going on.

As for a dedicated douche bottle, some people use them, but they are unnecessary. With a little practice, you can trickle water where you need it from well above your privates and handle the water bottle or cup only your clean hand.

Some time ago, I found some YouTube videos about how to clean yourself when traveling in countries where toilet paper is not used. Some of them had some pretty useful tips.

[Miel]

Any other suggestions besides those for dealing with pooplah?

[CamelMan]

Ive given birth to a navy seal at 120' while scuba diving. The fanning technique works well underwater and no contact required.

LOL. I'm picturing myself trying to do this.

[nsherry61]

I often carry a disposable pie tin with me to use as a base for my alcohol stove or Esbit stove or as a small fire pan to protect the ground. They weigh almost nothing, pack easily, and allow small fires without damaging the ground. They are also great for starting fires on when the ground is otherwise all wet.

[saltysack]

Inverted upside down with a shark feeding going on..30-40 reef sharks around....blow n go! Conch fritters n beer for weeks at a time helps speed up the process!


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[CamelMan]

I make chop sticks to pick up trash I don't want to touch.

[nsherry61]

I make chop sticks to pick up trash I don't want to touch.
Actually, that brings up a good point. Maybe my most LNT practice is always carrying a gallon ziploc bag where I can reach it while walking so I can easily and quickly pick up any garbage I see along the trail. It makes me feel so good. I like the chopsticks idea.

[Dogwood]

"With the increasing crowds on the AT each year, it's more important than ever that we all take responsibility for our actions out there?"

This in said in all serious It is not to be coy. FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO HIKE! Be responsible. The AT is NOT the center of the world. The east coast is NOT the center of the world. And, if one is not willing to expand their hiking horizons beyond the east coast(oh Jesus, Baby Jesus help me) one could EASILY hike any number of a plethora of other hikes/trails that can be integrated into a portion, even small segment, of the AT? SOOOOMANY neglected trails worthy of being hiked.

[MuddyWaters]

"With the increasing crowds on the AT each year, it's more important than ever that we all take responsibility for our actions out there?"

This in said in all serious It is not to be coy. FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO HIKE! Be responsible. The AT is NOT the center of the world. The east coast is NOT the center of the world. And, if one is not willing to expand their hiking horizons beyond the east coast(oh Jesus, Baby Jesus help me) one could EASILY hike any number of a plethora of other hikes/trails that can be integrated into a portion, even small segment, of the AT? SOOOOMANY neglected trails worthy of being hiked.




I say the opposite
The ATC wants the what the AT has become, let them have it.

Keep the hordes of idiots on the AT, protect the other trails

The AT is too far gone to protect anymore, let it be the sacrificial lamb

[Lone Wolf]

LNT is pretty much a joke on the AT. the southern end anyway

[Miel]

Glad I'm not the only one to be aware of this. I worked in wildlife rescue and rehab for years and those can yokes were the bane of our existance! I've seen so many horrorific injuries from them.

If you must buy a six pack please cut every single loop open...even the tiny ones. I think these things need to be banned (like in the UK) but that's probably wishful thinking, so all I can do is to educate people to the horrors of these things!

Thank you, Dune. I live in a city with a LOT of liquor stores, and a lot of people who buy a LOT of six packs. (Unfortunately, my city's alcoholism rate is very high.) I pick the rings up off the street every time I see one. I agree with you that they should be banned. But if there is hope for banning micro-beads, there might be hope for this. Manufacturers and sellers will say "but they degrade within in a week" (if constantly exposed to light). But one week is one week to long.

I have never seen one on a trail but have seen many in larger local parks that are supposed to be for a nature experience.

[nsherry61]

LNT is pretty much a joke on the AT. the southern end anyway
The whole concept of leaving no trace is a joke! One cannot walk, eat, or breath without leaving a trace. I personally don't like the LNT title because it is silly and impossible and in my mind discredits the whole ideal of minimizing our impact knowing we cannot truly leave no trace.

BUT, the ideal behind LNT is fantastic and critical and very much alive, even on the AT. Imagine how much worse things would be if most people along the trail still cut down trees to build shelters and make fire wood, if everyone still threw their garbage into the trees where it "wouldn't be noticed" by passers by, if following the trail were just a good idea that many people didn't do because they wanted to walk/make their own route through the woods.

No, LNT is very much alive, even on the AT and thank you to everyone that practices it to the best of their ability!!

Sadly, far to many people don't take LNT seriously (mabye because it's dumb term/name) and the damage done by hoards of hikers that mostly try and follow LNT, and the few that truly disregard it is enormous. I agree with MuddyWaters' sentiment about keeping the hoards on the AT, because, at some point, it is not the lack of LNT behavior that is the problem, it is the shear abundance of traffic. The AT would be far, far worse if most people didn't make any effort to LNT.

[BonBon]

I don't use toilet paper at all. A good cleaning with fingers and water gets that area cleaner than TP and reduces irritation and rash, and doesn't contribute more TP to either my garbage bag or the wilderness. The associated washing hands with soap and water more regularly also keeps you and yours cleaner and less likely to pass on disease.

I make a concerted effort to stay on the trail tread if at all possible instead of widening the trail or creating side trails to avoid minor obstacles.

I walk in softer and lighter shoes instead of boots, which can make a significant difference.

Cooking dinner an hour or more before stopping for the day, and getting up and hiking before stopping for breakfast, both dramatically reduce impact on camp sites especially since, if you aren't cooking in camp, you are more likely to camp in places further from water and thus also further from overused camp sites. Also, cooking before stopping can extend your hiking day and reduce food odors and animal issues where you are camping.

I use Google Maps street view instead of actually walking the trails to eliminate impact all together. ;-) The Grand Canyon on Google is fantastic!

Fat bike tires leave less impact than shoes, so riding fat bikes is a great help! Fat bikes can actually help smooth out soft, rough or rutted trail tread.

Bwa ha! Awesome post- thanks for the chuckles.

[Another Kevin]

"With the increasing crowds on the AT each year, it's more important than ever that we all take responsibility for our actions out there?"

This in said in all serious It is not to be coy. FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO HIKE! Be responsible. The AT is NOT the center of the world. The east coast is NOT the center of the world. And, if one is not willing to expand their hiking horizons beyond the east coast(oh Jesus, Baby Jesus help me) one could EASILY hike any number of a plethora of other hikes/trails that can be integrated into a portion, even small segment, of the AT? SOOOOMANY neglected trails worthy of being hiked.




That's what I do mostly. I occasionally include a small segment of AT on my hikes, but with so many great places Out There, why confine myself to that? Example: This overlook does not have a trail to it. (And my buddy and I didn't get to it by exactly the easiest approach. I don't think I'm going to do that particular route again.)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3877/14738413825_f10056c98b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/osodXc)

When you're the only human who's been to a place in days, you get to see more wildlife.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8716/17283239441_cf1f7991bd_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/skg7WV)

And on the less popular trails, the other hikers haven't already eaten all the berries.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3762/9441528250_7dd943b791_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/fojipQ)https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8031/8021877432_5db0222f42_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ddSdFA)

There can be enough privacy for a swim without chafing in wet shorts afterward. (No, I have no idea how the rowboat got there. I'm guessing someone brought it on a float plane.)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/746/20801170855_e21e547d27_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xG8roP)

History and archaeology aplenty.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3947/15402152610_5f95190317_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pt34nm)

Rare species to observe.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/720/20801503445_1146483f50_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xGa9g8)

Why on Earth would I confine myself to a single trail?

[QiWiz]

So if you need or want a "trophy trowel", I got some. But seriously, there is a way to [1] not have to pack out TP after using some, and [2] to not see TP "flowers" appear when animals dig up your cathole, and [3] to speed up decomposition of your deposit. Read on to learn about the LNT Poup Soup method.

A problem with catholes is that animals will often dig them up to get at partially digested buried food particles in feces. This tends to mix soil with feces (a good thing), but changes animal behavior (a bad thing), and possibly worst of all can leave dug-up toilet paper “flowers” in the area (another bad thing). One solution is to pack out toilet paper (TP) or use leaves or other natural materials as TP, but animals will still be attracted to the cathole as a food source. Another solution is to make Poup Soup.

A further benefit of the “Poup Soup” technique is the funny name and the humor that can be put into teaching youth and adults an effective cathole technique.

Selecting a Cathole Site:


Select a cathole site far from water sources, 200 feet (approximately 70 adult paces) is the recommended range.
Select an inconspicuous site untraveled by people. Examples of cathole sites include thick undergrowth, near downed timber, or on gentle hillsides.
If camping with a group or if camping in the same place for more than one night, disperse the catholes over a wide area; don’t go to the same place twice.
Try to find a site with deep organic soil. This contains organisms which will help decompose the feces. (Organic soil is usually dark and rich in color.) The desert does not have as much organic soil as a forested area. (See number 2 below.)
If possible, locate your cathole where it will receive maximum sunlight. The heat from the sun will aid decomposition.
Choose an elevated site where water would not normally collect during runoff or rain storms. The idea here is to keep the feces out of water. Over time, the decomposing feces will percolate into the soil before reaching water sources.

Digging a Cathole:


A small trowel is the perfect tool for digging a cathole. With much patience, sticks and such can be used instead.
Dig the hole 6-8 inches deep and 4-6 inches in diameter. In a hot desert, human waste does not biodegrade easily because there is little organic soil to help break it down. In the desert, the cathole should be only 4-6 inches deep. This will allow the heat and sun to hasten the decay process.


Making Poup Soup:
After depositing waste and TP / materials into the cathole,


use a sturdy stick (not your trowel) to mix all of this with some loose soil,
then add a cup or so of water* and mix again.

The TP, soil, and feces should not be recognizable as such once thoroughly mixed in this soup. The thorough mixing of all of the cathole contents with soil and water will speed decomposition, make animal digging less likely, and will completely avoid the “TP flower” problem.
* there is some disagreement as to how essential it really is to add water to the mix, but if you can spare some, it does speed the mixing process

Topping Off the Cathole:
When finished, the cathole should be topped off with the rest of the original dirt and disguised with native materials.

[saltysack]

So if you need or want a "trophy trowel", I got some. But seriously, there is a way to [1] not have to pack out TP after using some, and [2] to not see TP "flowers" appear when animals dig up your cathole, and [3] to speed up decomposition of your deposit. Read on to learn about the LNT Poup Soup method.

A problem with catholes is that animals will often dig them up to get at partially digested buried food particles in feces. This tends to mix soil with feces (a good thing), but changes animal behavior (a bad thing), and possibly worst of all can leave dug-up toilet paper “flowers” in the area (another bad thing). One solution is to pack out toilet paper (TP) or use leaves or other natural materials as TP, but animals will still be attracted to the cathole as a food source. Another solution is to make Poup Soup.

A further benefit of the “Poup Soup” technique is the funny name and the humor that can be put into teaching youth and adults an effective cathole technique.

Selecting a Cathole Site:


Select a cathole site far from water sources, 200 feet (approximately 70 adult paces) is the recommended range.
Select an inconspicuous site untraveled by people. Examples of cathole sites include thick undergrowth, near downed timber, or on gentle hillsides.
If camping with a group or if camping in the same place for more than one night, disperse the catholes over a wide area; don’t go to the same place twice.
Try to find a site with deep organic soil. This contains organisms which will help decompose the feces. (Organic soil is usually dark and rich in color.) The desert does not have as much organic soil as a forested area. (See number 2 below.)
If possible, locate your cathole where it will receive maximum sunlight. The heat from the sun will aid decomposition.
Choose an elevated site where water would not normally collect during runoff or rain storms. The idea here is to keep the feces out of water. Over time, the decomposing feces will percolate into the soil before reaching water sources.

Digging a Cathole:


A small trowel is the perfect tool for digging a cathole. With much patience, sticks and such can be used instead.
Dig the hole 6-8 inches deep and 4-6 inches in diameter. In a hot desert, human waste does not biodegrade easily because there is little organic soil to help break it down. In the desert, the cathole should be only 4-6 inches deep. This will allow the heat and sun to hasten the decay process.


Making Poup Soup:
After depositing waste and TP / materials into the cathole,


use a sturdy stick (not your trowel) to mix all of this with some loose soil,
then add a cup or so of water* and mix again.

The TP, soil, and feces should not be recognizable as such once thoroughly mixed in this soup. The thorough mixing of all of the cathole contents with soil and water will speed decomposition, make animal digging less likely, and will completely avoid the “TP flower” problem.
* there is some disagreement as to how essential it really is to add water to the mix, but if you can spare some, it does speed the mixing process

Topping Off the Cathole:
When finished, the cathole should be topped off with the rest of the original dirt and disguised with native materials.

Please mark spot with a turd tombstone![emoji51]
A rock or sticks work well and warn others of the hidden danger!

[daddytwosticks]

Who needs a trowel? Just use your spork to dig yer cat hole. Dual purpose. :)

[nsherry61]

. . . with so many great places Out There, why confine myself. . .
Just stop! If you're not careful you are going to encourage hoards of people to hike on some of the 99% of the trails that are not the AT and spoil them for the rest of us.

[twistwrist]

Glad I'm not the only one to be aware of this. I worked in wildlife rescue and rehab for years and those can yokes were the bane of our existance! I've seen so many horrorific injuries from them.

If you must buy a six pack please cut every single loop open...even the tiny ones. I think these things need to be banned (like in the UK) but that's probably wishful thinking, so all I can do is to educate people to the horrors of these things!

Absolutely! My 6th grade teacher taught me that, and I've cut every single ring since. As I researched the LNT article I wrote a few months ago, I found way too many pictures of animals hurt or killed from these rings and other litter. Anyone ever seen the hummingbird video? Don't worry, happy ending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hZL22NGqDU


LNT is pretty much a joke on the AT. the southern end anyway

I think we do make some impact, and I've heard from many that this year the trail has been in better shape than in previous years. The ATC is working hard to educate folks about LNT principles early on in their hike by staffing GA with 5 ridgerunners. Though there will always be those who don't care, if we can get through to even a small percentage of hikers, it makes a noticeable difference. Peer pressure can work on our side too if there are more advocates out there enjoying the trail themselves.
Sadly my experience has been a lot of boy scout leaders don't understand LNT. It would be a good idea for all group leaders to take a LNT course before taking a group out into the backcountry.

[Lone Wolf]

babysitting and picking up after hikers is not the answer

[Miel]

Absolutely! My 6th grade teacher taught me that, and I've cut every single ring since. As I researched the LNT article I wrote a few months ago, I found way too many pictures of animals hurt or killed from these rings and other litter. Anyone ever seen the hummingbird video? Don't worry, happy ending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hZL22NGqDU


Or the straw up the turtle's nose that killed him. Or the turtle whose shell grew around the plastic ring. Neither of them happy endings/ :( (Straws are also a menace; if people must use them, please use a re-usable straw that is as re-usable as any, for example, stainless steel cutlery that people have at home.)

[Miel]

Absolutely! My 6th grade teacher taught me that, and I've cut every single ring since. As I researched the LNT article I wrote a few months ago, I found way too many pictures of animals hurt or killed from these rings and other litter. Anyone ever seen the hummingbird video? Don't worry, happy ending. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hZL22NGqDU



I think we do make some impact, and I've heard from many that this year the trail has been in better shape than in previous years. The ATC is working hard to educate folks about LNT principles early on in their hike by staffing GA with 5 ridgerunners. Though there will always be those who don't care, if we can get through to even a small percentage of hikers, it makes a noticeable difference. Peer pressure can work on our side too if there are more advocates out there enjoying the trail themselves.
Sadly my experience has been a lot of boy scout leaders don't understand LNT. It would be a good idea for all group leaders to take a LNT course before taking a group out into the backcountry.

The Boy Scouts have many problems, from lack of LNT awareness to homophobia.

[shawnb]

Why is it that us American's are so squeamish about basic body functions? Do you never wash your nether regions in the shower? Do you avoid shaking hands with people that have just gotten out of the shower? Does cleaning yourself in the shower make you feel unclean, or do you feel cleaner afterwords? Do you always wash your hands after wiping with TP, especially in the woods? Many people do not, and it doesn't sound like you stress about shaking peoples' hands in general.

FWIW, I do follow the Arabic tradition of only ever using your left hand for hygiene and your right hand to shake hands and eat with. 80% of people in the world don't use toilet paper and many consider TP to be gross and dirty, like trying to clean yourself by wiping down with paper towels instead of taking a shower.

Many of those people substitute a bidet for toilet paper... particularly in Arabic countries.

Much of the world doesn't have access to safe drinking water, either. Ever been to a third world country? I have, and don't feel the need to adopt customs just because the majority of humanity does it. TP and aquamira for me.

[nsherry61]

Many of those people substitute a bidet for toilet paper... particularly in Arabic countries.

Much of the world doesn't have access to safe drinking water, either. Ever been to a third world country? I have, and don't feel the need to adopt customs just because the majority of humanity does it. TP and aquamira for me.

A more appropriate statement would be "Many of those people substitute a bidet for a water bottle.", a luxury most of us are not interested in carrying on our back. Bidet water or water bottle water, the practice is still pretty much the same. And, I'm not sure what safe drinking water and being third-world have to do with highly effective cultural hygiene practices that are not correlated to wealth?

In the end, it looks like one of our bigger LNT problems is the combination of carelessness and American squeamishness about our own bodies and body functions.

[rafe]

Don't bring stuff into the woods that comes in cans or jars -- unless you're going to carry out those same cans and jars.

Foil or ziplocks are much better, but you must carry them back out.

Don't build fires except in established fire pits. Most food packaging won't burn right and should be carried out.

If you plan it right, your "garbage" for a four or five day hike might weigh a few oz. at most. Carry it out and dispose of it properly in town.

In general, deal with all of your waste conscientiously.

[perdidochas]

The Boy Scouts have many problems, from lack of LNT awareness to homophobia.

The Boy Scouts teach (and at least my troop lives) LNT. Please don't brand us all as the same. We practice LNT in front country as well as back country.

[Greenlight]

In many cultures, many of them ancient (and before the advent of Charmin) the left hand was the "dirty jobs" hand. Contact with others required the right hand (the right hand of fellowship, etc.) Touching someone with your left hand made a definitive statement. So if you're a four fingered poop scooper, always shake hands with your right. Everyting gonna be all right (hattip to Marley) ;)

~Greenlight

[martinb]

Uh, sorry, not using the hand. I bring wet bio-wipes and everything is buried in a deep cathole (forearm's-deep).

I alway spend 10-15 minutes cleaning up other people's leftovers a BC sites. The most frequent objects found? The ends of bar-wrappers. It's confounding because the whole wrapper is rarely seen but the stupid little torn-off corner is always there.I'll burn thoise in an existing pit or I have a LNT titanium floor for my tri-ti inferno.

[twistwrist]

babysitting and picking up after hikers is not the answer

I agree. Which is why our job is primarily education.


Or the straw up the turtle's nose that killed him. Or the turtle whose shell grew around the plastic ring. Neither of them happy endings/ :( (Straws are also a menace; if people must use them, please use a re-usable straw that is as re-usable as any, for example, stainless steel cutlery that people have at home.)

I know. :( :( That picture is in the article I wrote. It's heartbreaking.


Don't bring stuff into the woods that comes in cans or jars -- unless you're going to carry out those same cans and jars.

Foil or ziplocks are much better, but you must carry them back out.

Don't build fires except in established fire pits. Most food packaging won't burn right and should be carried out.

If you plan it right, your "garbage" for a four or five day hike might weigh a few oz. at most. Carry it out and dispose of it properly in town.

In general, deal with all of your waste conscientiously.

Thanks, Rafe, for the thoughtful post as usual. Nice.


The Boy Scouts teach (and at least my troop lives) LNT. Please don't brand us all as the same. We practice LNT in front country as well as back country.

Thank you so much for being the leader our young boys need.

[Miel]

The Boy Scouts teach (and at least my troop lives) LNT. Please don't brand us all as the same. We practice LNT in front country as well as back country.

OK sorry perdidochas.

[Dogwood]

I applaud your efforts Twistwrist seeking to find solutions through positive change. :clap Keep it up. Great thread topics and excellent level headed feedback! Don't grow weary in well doing.

[squeezebox]

Many of those people substitute a bidet for toilet paper... particularly in Arabic countries.

Much of the world doesn't have access to safe drinking water, either. Ever been to a third world country? I have, and don't feel the need to adopt customs just because the majority of humanity does it. TP and aquamira for me.

I use the bottom 1/2 of a 1/2 gal milk jug as a bidit, bring wash water and rinse water. Along with a cheap paper towel, they decompose easier, or a dedicated piece of sham-wow. And I have plenty of water for poop soup.

[Pedaling Fool]

Forget leaving a trace, everyone here is leaving massive globs of stuff. https://www.yahoo.com/news/countdown-earth-day-blogger-lives-093926745.html

[Traveler]

Forget leaving a trace, everyone here is leaving massive globs of stuff. https://www.yahoo.com/news/countdown-earth-day-blogger-lives-093926745.html

If one is not trying to be part of the solution, they are part of the problem. One must choose how they wish to live.