View Full Version : ULA CDT fit question
I've got a question for ULA CDT owners. I just received a CDT in medium, and I'm concerned about the fit. This is my first large frameless pack (and my first ultralight pack, having used a 5lb Dana Design previously.) My immediate impression was that it is too small and that I need a large despite the manufacturer's torso sizing recommendations (my torso is 19-20".)
How is this fit? Far more weight on the shoulders than I would expect...
Thanks in advance...
I guess I should have noted that the belt is cinched over my iliac crest.
I'm 5'8 145lbs, if that's helpful additional info.
lonehiker
04-16-2016, 21:35
I guess I should have noted that the belt is cinched over my iliac crest.
I'm 5'8 145lbs, if that's helpful additional info.
It is sitting too low. ULA website has good info on sizing and fitting their packs.
Looks about right torso length to me. What kind of frame were you using in that pic? It looks like the pack may be hanging a bit off your shoulders because the lack of adequate suspension and possibly the pack not being full and/or the waist belt not being tight enough(it looks to be slightly angling down rather than even more horizontal?) The CDT does not have load lifters. It was not designed for loads of more than about 25-28 lbs for long periods. As a consequence it can fit(hang of the shoulders) a bit different than a conventional pack with a stiff internal built in suspension. When I'm near my max wt load I put the CDT on shrugging my shoulders upwards first, hold the wt there and adjust the shoulder straps tighter but not in their final position so they still have some play. Then tighten the waist belt, shoulders still shrugged upwards. If you have the suspension right(stiff enough for the load) and the adjusting correct load should be on your hips when you loosen your shoulders to a relaxed state. I THEN make final adjustments to the shoulder harness bringing the pack slightly inward closer to my back. That's how I do it. The feel is still a bit different than say even a framed ZP Arc Blast with load lifters or a conventional well fitting well adjusted pack!
I hear ya. When I first went to this type of rucksack from the more conventional stiff internal framesheet of the Granite Gear Vapor trail it felt weird. I felt like the load was hanging too much on my shoulders. Getting the virtual suspension right and packing the load differently helped me adjust. If you play with these things I think you'll get used to it too getting a better adjusted fit.
I once used the older Thermarest ProLite Shorti, now renamed, folded in threes or fours as my virtual suspension. I now use the NeoAir XLite Shortie. I strip down all the removable items on my CDT. The foam backrest alone will not be adequate with anything but the lightest load. I almost fully deflate the pad, place inside with top elastic straps holding it in place with the pad air nozzle up and facing into the pack volume not towards my back. Then the load is almost fully packed. I do be mindful of not placing sharp(shepard hooks) or bulky objects(cook pot) next to the pad. Near the top before I place a rain jacket, WP apparel, or final gear I reach in and puff a few more breathes into the pad. Close the air valve. This anchors the load by filling in any space. It stiffens the pack. It also keeps from unduly inflating the pad taking up too much of the interior's main body volume. That's my frame that I'm well able to handle 25 lb loads with all/almost all of it on my hips. If my frame or pack folds easily or doesn't stay stiff when I have it off sitting upright on the ground with pretty much a full load suspension isn't right for the maxed out load wt. When I have my suspension(pad) and load right there is usually a little vertical arc to where it lays next to my pack. The arc is not like an Arc Blast It's in the vertical direction the entire length next to my back all the way down to where the hipbelt starts. I find this to be more important in hot weather so less of the Dyneema or Robic is up against my back. It's less sweaty.
lonehiker
04-16-2016, 21:38
The shoulder straps should only curve around the shoulders an inch or two.
MuddyWaters
04-16-2016, 22:10
Pack looks way too low.
Too have structure a frameless pack needs to be packed full and rigid, using sleeping pad usually for support. Or else its just a sack. Being a sack is OK at 10 lbs, not 25.
Is this a recent mass drop delivery? Mine just arrived too. Good luck with your New pack.
I use a CDT on week long hikes . 18 lbs is great 20 is pushing the limits for me.
Thanks everyone for the input. I've also been talking with Chris McMaster (excellent product support thus far with this company) and he says I need a large. Several (including Chris) have said I wear it low - I don't know - if I wore it any higher the belt would be not be load bearing at all. The picture I posted is only with the included pad - I was planning on getting the Gossamer Gear Nightlight for "frame" support. I did an experiment with (an obviously overkill) Thermarest full-length basecamp just to see how the pack is different with a lot of structure and the fit was not much different.
I may well upgrade to an Ohm 2.0 at this point.
CDT load bearing on hips that's funny.
Yeah I don't know. Perhaps I've been spoiled having a pack with a great suspension for a long time. My idea of UL comfort is not carrying 18lbs on my shoulders.
That foam sheet the CDT comes with does not constitute a suspension. If using that by itself the pack will sag similar as seen in your pic. Wt will not be transferred mainly to the hips. The wt will pull mainly on the shoulders. You are desiring a more rigid virtual suspension. I see the stock foam pad mainly padding for against the back only needed if you want to haphazardly pack your load or don't like a possible temp difference of water against your back if using the removable hydration sleeve storing water inside the pack. Exactly what I see in your pic I've dealt with before my lack of understanding how to create an adequate load hip bearing virtual suspension. IMO, the OHM, may have been a direct ULA design attempt at offering a backpack with a suspension because of, no offense intended, user's lack of familiarity with the CDT rucksack design. Hence, we see offered the Ohm with a carbon fiber/delrin active suspension hoop. In short, if you don't want to learn how to create a suspension in a frameless pack or consider how to pack a frameless pack this pack may not be right for you. This is after all an UL pack. Umm, Ultra Light Adventures is what ULA stands for.
FWIW I prefer, especially with the ULA CDT, the hip belt riding high on my hips. With a conventional fully framed backpack I don't perhaps mind the hip belt riding just a bit lower.
Again, if you try doing what I suggested, before you relax those shoulders downward, AND after firmly adjusting down the hip belt buckle to have the hip belt firmly riding on your hips, then relax the shoulders, a properly adjusted and framed CDT should hold on your hips with the wt on the hips with the pack still having good rigidity. Then, make final shoulder harness adjustments pulling the pack closer to your upper back. The pack should not be pulling away unduly from your upper back.
FWIW, my info comes from contact with Brian Frankle, the founder of ULA and designer of the CDT when it was called the Conduit, and through my own experiences. The Conduit(CDT)'s design arose out of what Brian wanted in an UL backpack. He used the Conduit/CDT extensively. I liked what he came up with and likewise adopted the pack for my UL uses on many of the same hikes Brian accomplished using the Conduit/CDT. FWIW, I just bought my 8th ULA CDT/Conduit hiking everyone into the ground, FWIW, more than anyone else I know as a LD hiker who currently employs the pack. The ULA CDT has been my goto hands on choice LD backpack since 2007-08 averaging, as a good guesstimate, 2500+ hiking/trail miles on it per yr. I use the CDT as my travel luggage, traveling pack(non hiking) as well. In short, 10,000's of trail miles and who knows how many train, airport, bus etc miles, on my ULA Conduits/CDTs.
Always better to check things out in person so certainly missing things coming to an incorrect or incomplete conclusion is possible but that's my initial assessment based on what's been shared by you. Even with a longer torso length, which I don't think is your problem (based on the accuracy of the info shared), although that might help some with the comfort factor, the pack would still be sagging on you with too much wt/pull on the shoulders if relying solely on the stock foam sheet as your suspension and adjusting/wearing it as you are in your pic. The pack is pulling away from your upper back too much. I hope this helps.
I appreciate it Dogwood, I really do. No offense taken regarding unfamiliarity with properly packing this style of pack. I took your fitting suggestion, and I had another picture taken with the aforementioned oversize thermarest in it plus various bits for weight. What do you think of this? It is far more comfortable, rides much higher on the hips than I'm used to (although still carries much of the load on the hips), and still feels a bit strange... but enough to make me second guess myself on sizing.
That picture looks better. The next question is: is there a lot of weight on your shoulders? Most all of it should be on your hips. Also, are you wearing using the sternum strap? I always do with the CDT--it seems to keep the pack closer to my back, and thereby higher on my shoulders.
The main question, though, is: is the pack comfortable? If it feels strange walking around the house, imagine how it's going to feel after 10 or 20 miles...
Better. How does the hip belt feel? Not riding obsessively high? The med length torso should work if you're a 19-20" length torso. The 20 oz CDT rucksack is a vastly different feel than a 80 oz conventional Dana. Gonna be very strange feeling like the CDT is floating on your back! Try out a short hike playing with the virtual frame keeping the load under 20lbs and the pack pretty full. Play with the adjusting.
As you stated ULA has great Customer Service. They'll work with you. Have you sent Chris these pics? I'd like to know what he says.
I'm with Burger on his sternum strap comment which I feel is perhaps even more important with the J shoulder harness as it looks you have or with less broad square shoulders.
For entry into the frameless pack category at this volume, with the CDT's features, with it's durability, at a 20 oz wt(removable items removed), at its price pt there's a lot to like about the CDT IF it works within your hikes. Of course, I'm biased though. :)
Have you tried out the front hand resting loops or carrying water bottles on the shoulder straps? This too helps balance out the load and usually results in a closer to the back position more centered feeling of gravity. Employing either of these takes some stress off needing an optimal virtual frame(could be beneficial as you adjust to a new frameless pack) but does bring more wt to the shoulders NOT all that critical if you're staying with the design parameters and not loading heavily to the rear of the pack.
I sent my CDT back today to exchange for a large. Thanks everybody for the help.
I am pretty dense, but it seems like if a pack is hanging too low, the torso is too long, not too short...but like I said, I am spatially challenged!
I am pretty dense, but it seems like if a pack is hanging too low, the torso is too long, not too short...but like I said, I am spatially challenged!
Yes you r ha ha
Yes you r ha ha
I know!
Just thinking about it like a sport coat...if it's too low on my ass, don't I need a shorter coat, not a longer one?!?! :eek:
Well not exactly. The hip belt has to go on the hip . Can't change that. Longer pack the shoulder straps start higher up the back. This is a frameless pack with no load lifers.
Well not exactly. The hip belt has to go on the hip . Can't change that. Longer pack the shoulder straps start higher up the back. This is a frameless pack with no load lifers.
I'm starting to get a glimmer....so if you do have it on the iliac crest properly and the straps are still down on the back too far, then you need longer straps, meaning longer torso is needed?
I'm starting to get a glimmer....so if you do have it on the iliac crest properly and the straps are still down on the back too far, then you need longer straps, meaning longer torso is needed?
Yes and No. Maybe. The torso length in essence can definitely be affected, within some range, by various virtual suspensions on the CDT. This obviously affects fit. Something similar can happen with full frame suspension backpacks that have adjustable torso ranges. Ie' adjust the torso length the shoulder harness fits differently. For example, by packing the frameless CDT differently or adjusting the rigidity of the inflatable or CCF pad I'm adjusting the virtual suspension and possibly torso length. This affects the shoulder harness fit. I've been attempting to get this communicated all along.
I got my large CDT yesterday... fits great. Very happy with the pack now.
In you opening post you said you have a 19-20 " torso length. Could be you experienced exactly as Ron Bell of Mountain Laurel Designs warns about:
-Torso lengths on MLD packs are measured from bottom of pack below waist belt wings to the point where the shoulder straps attatch to the pack.
-95% of MLD packs users do best to go by our height guidelines.
-NOTE: Different pack makers and outdoor stores measure for torso length differently.
-Frameless pack are measured and fit differently than fully framed packs with large hipbelts- DO NOT go to your local outdoor store/REI and "get measured" and then select length from that measure- it will be wrong. Use our height guide!
If you need help deciding the right size - Please Call
(Please do not order multiple sizes as a guess)
Test Fit Indoors - We are happy to exchange for size or refund new unused packs.
Glad it was figured out.