View Full Version : Ultralite Bear canister option
Cedar1974
04-19-2016, 08:29
Apparently some places on the trail require a bear canister. I want to use an Ursack, but my partner is still worried it will attract bears to us. Is there some options you can offer for a lighter way to secure our food?
Treebeard89
04-19-2016, 08:43
You can hike straight through the areas that require a canister
Cedar1974
04-19-2016, 08:44
You can hike straight through the areas that require a canister
Really? Are they that short?
Ursack is _supposed_ to foil _some_ 4 legged critters but works better with a lining to seal in odors as well.
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12trysomething
04-19-2016, 09:14
Unfortunately what others have done (or not done) in the past will likely be 95% of the reason if you have a bear encounter. Other than the areas that have dedicated bear bag systems you will struggle to see anyone with a proper bear bag set up (10' up and 4' away).
In direct answer to your question, I use the Ursack and am not aware of anything lighter.
Best wishes,
Rob
Cedar1974
04-19-2016, 10:14
I know an Ursack can stop up to a Grizzly bear (there is test video on their website) but I am still getting a hanging system to help my partner feel safer. So 4' away and at least 10' up is the rule, I'll keep that in mind.
I also hang my Ursack when below treeline. Here's a good method:
http://theultimatehang.com/2013/03/hanging-a-bear-bag-the-pct-method/
SouthMark
04-19-2016, 11:18
The only section that requires a canister is the 5 mile section in Georgia between Lance Gap and Neel Gap and it expires June 1.
In absence of a requirement for an "approved" canister or in limited cases, a Ursack, you can hang a Zpacks bear bag with Nylofume liner bags and 50' of spectra cord and a carabiner. The Nylofume reduces or eliminates odors. It's also a lighter option with more volume.
A lot of people sleep with their food. I prefer to hang it where possible. Storing food in a tent is problematic. If a bear encounters it when the campsite is vacant, they will begin to associate tents with food. Same principle as avoiding dropping your pack when confronted with a bear on the trail.
I have always tried to eliminate any possibility of a bear getting to my food. It's a hassle to be hungry, but the consequences for the bear are often much worse.
Colorado's bear population is growing very fast due to hunting restrictions. We have had several areas closed due to aggressive bear activity, even some remote wilderness areas.
It's prudent to keep your food away from bears regardless of what the regulations allow.
Cedar1974
04-19-2016, 13:19
It isn't just bears you need to worry about. There was a Thru hiker named Red Beard. He recorded his whole trip, and told about how their camp was attacked by, as he put it, rabid chipmunks. They chewed through one woman's tent, then her food bag and took all her food.
It isn't just bears you need to worry about. There was a Thru hiker named Red Beard. He recorded his whole trip, and told about how their camp was attacked by, as he put it, rabid chipmunks. They chewed through one woman's tent, then her food bag and took all her food.
along with mice.........
MuddyWaters
04-19-2016, 14:20
along with mice.........
And coons
And skunks
Sandy of PA
04-19-2016, 16:00
Wild Ideas makes the lightest most expensive canisters out there. If you are good at carrying high fat low volume food a Bear Boxer Contender is also light, cheaper, but much smaller. I can get 4 days in mine which works for most of the AT. Your partner could carry one of these while you carry a regular food bag. Just put all the nuts, dried fruit, and anything with sugar in the can, and carry any dried veggies, potatoes, rice and oatmeal in the bag. The critters don't want the dry cereal!
Do not sleep with your food in GSMNP. The hanging Ursack idea is the lightest weight option without deferring to a space-robbing solid canister.
Ultralite Bear canister
That's a contradiction. There is no UL bear canister. Just lighter. However, there are some lighter ways to protect food from bears and other critters. IMO, protecting food from wildlife begins well before any bear canister is utilized. It involves procedures, techniques, considerations, etc. Gear is not the solution to every challenge.
IMHO, the bigger threat to your food are not bears but mice, and all they can represent, on typical AT hikes. Where bears are an issue you'll find bear cables to hang your food and of course knowing how to do a good hang where there aren't ones.
Ursacks aren't really meant to be hung in a traditional bear bag style. Not that you can't, but not necessarily needed.
http://www.ursack.com/how-to-use/
Sarcasm the elf
04-19-2016, 22:08
Really? Are they that short?
The only part of the Appalachian Trail that specifically requires a bear canister is a single 5 mile stretch between Neels Gap and Jarrods Gap in Georgia.
From the ATC Website:
GeorgiaBear canisters seasonally required for camping between Jarrard Gap and Neel Gap
A new U.S. Forest Service rule requires approved bear-resistant storage containers for overnight camping on a 5-mile stretch of the A.T. in the Chattahoochee National Forest between Jarrard Gap and Neel Gap, between March 1 and June 1 each year. This stretch is located between points 26.7 and 31.7 miles north of the southern terminus of the A.T. at Springer Moutain, Georgia, and includes Woods Hole Shelter, Slaughter Creek Campsite, and Blood Mountain Shelter. “Bear canisters” should be used to store food, food containers, garbage and toiletries. For more information, call the Chattahoochee - Oconee National Forest at (770) 297-3000.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/explore-the-trail/trail-updates
Sarcasm the elf
04-19-2016, 22:14
Ursacks aren't really meant to be hung in a traditional bear bag style. Not that you can't, but not necessarily needed.
http://www.ursack.com/how-to-use/
Isn't it actually counter productive to hang an ursack? I thought the whole idea was that ursacks needed to be attached to a tree with the included cut resistant cord so that if an animal got a grip on the soft bag they couldn't walk off with it. (as opposed to hard sided canisters which are designed so that animals simply can't get a grip on them with their mouths, and shouldn't attached to anything)
Isn't it actually counter productive to hang an ursack? )
Yep. It is. I was just being more diplomatic than I usually am..as is the Ursack website. :)
Hanging an Ursack is like a fish riding a bicycle.
lonehiker
04-20-2016, 12:15
Yep. It is. I was just being more diplomatic than I usually am..as is the Ursack website. :)
Hanging an Ursack is like a fish riding a bicycle.
I would imagine that the makers of Ursack would not want anyone hanging their bag. Because by the 6th time or so (2-3 for the fast learners) the person would realize that they could get by with a lot cheaper and probably lighter bear bag....
Odd Man Out
04-20-2016, 12:34
Apparently some places on the trail require a bear canister. I want to use an Ursack, but my partner is still worried it will attract bears to us. Is there some options you can offer for a lighter way to secure our food?
Tell your friend that the purpose of a bear canister is not to prevent bears from being attracted. Bears are attracted by smells and bear canisters are not designed to be odor proof. You can buy odor barrier bags to minimize odors (and are good to use as liners in all food containers), but they are just plastic bags and do nothing to keep a bear out. The bear's sense of smell is so acute, I doubt anything is completely odor-PROOF so an odor barrier bag will just minimize the odors, not eliminate them. The bear canister functions to prevent bears from being able to get into your food. Bears quickly learn to leave them alone because they won't be able to get inside. This is why you are advised not to hang a bear canister. Bears learn that a food bag hanging from a tree is the easiest way to get food from a hiker. The correct protocol is to put your canister on the ground some distance away from your tent. The bear will smell it, got to it, see that it's a canister and walk away. If it has not yet learned the futility of getting at the food inside it may with it for a while before giving up. It will smell you in your tent and stay as far away as possible. It will then find a bag hanging from a tree to eat from. Your ultralight option is to hang your food correctly. The bear will take the easy (i.e. incorrectly hung) bags first. But as pointed out above, this is mostly irrelevant on the AT since to my knowledge there is just one section a few miles long that requires canisters for overnight stays. The easy solution is to just hike through this section without stopping overnight.
I would imagine that the makers of Ursack would not want anyone hanging their bag. Because by the 6th time or so (2-3 for the fast learners) the person would realize that they could get by with a lot cheaper and probably lighter bear bag....
Most people do piss-poor bear hangs. And a good tree for bear hanging is not always available.
From http://nighthikingtomars.blogspot.com/2015/10/new-calendar-idea-spectacularly-crappy_3.html
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DuneElliot
04-20-2016, 14:40
Most people do piss-poor bear hangs. And a good tree for bear hanging is not always available.
From http://nighthikingtomars.blogspot.com/2015/10/new-calendar-idea-spectacularly-crappy_3.html
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Picture 7 has to be the funniest!!! I almost snorted at that one!!!
Kestrelchick
04-24-2016, 19:06
for those using an Ursack - would you recommend the traditional Ursack s29.3 or the Ursack Major - the traditional said it could hold roughly 5 days worth of food while the other holds more - was curious which one other AT hikers were using
ChrisJackson
04-24-2016, 19:51
The big AllWhite one. Big when you need it, small when you don't.
ChrisJackson
04-24-2016, 19:58
Oh they have a new model out. I have the non-major one (70 USD). It's great. But would probably have bought the major had it been available at the time. But mine is really fine...5 to 6 days of food...fine for me.
Most people do piss-poor bear hangs. And a good tree for bear hanging is not always available.
From http://nighthikingtomars.blogspot.com/2015/10/new-calendar-idea-spectacularly-crappy_3.html
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just met an AT thru hiker that could not figure out why a bear stole his food near Wataga Lake. It was hanging two feet from the trunk.
to the OP: from a weight perspective the ursack is by far the lightest and I have had used I believe every canister that is legal in the Sierra and some that aren't. The lightest is not to use it but then you have to be knowledgable enough in how to protect your food from all critters. I would never personally take a canister on the AT but I also know how to do a quality hang when needed and have little issue using my food as a pillow. That's a whole different discussion on why.
Oddly enough, the Ursack site mentions the option to hang 10+ feet high using counterbalance method???
Oddly enough, the Ursack site mentions the option to hang 10+ feet high using counterbalance method???
Mentioned, but not necessary.
So that it can’t be crushed or stolen. Tie URSACK to a tree branch using a figure 8 or another knot that resists clinching, so that it can be untied easily. Alternatively, tie a secure knot and then counterbalance over a high (10′ +) tree branch–not a guarantee, but it will thwart some bears.
It isn't necessary to hang the Ursack. But I have no desire to eat bear spittle porridge after a bear gets done gnawing on an Ursack. Its great that they can't get in, but now you have to pack out that toxic mess.
So, use the odor bags and tie it to a tree at ground level. Or use the odor bags and hang it at least 10' high 4' out. If the odor bag is compromised, at least you still have another level of protection if you hang it.
...and if there are no trees around? Specifically along the CDT in the Weminuche Wilderness in September.
FWIW: REI doesn't have the Ursack Major yet. Shucks.
Wayne
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MudDuchess
05-02-2016, 15:13
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160502/05c97d008e53d8330e275b0802bc3f29.jpg
Get the all-white and decorate yourself[emoji23]
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CoolBobby
05-04-2016, 23:30
for those using an Ursack - would you recommend the traditional Ursack s29.3 or the Ursack Major - the traditional said it could hold roughly 5 days worth of food while the other holds more - was curious which one other AT hikers were using
I use the traditional S29 constantly. More for the small critters but I can get a week of food in there.
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The only section that requires a canister is the 5 mile section in Georgia between Lance Gap and Neel Gap and it expires June 1.
Gossamer Gear has a small bear cannister, for about 3-days food.
Gossamer Gear has a small bear cannister, for about 3-days food.
From Gossamer Gear's web page:
This bear canister is approved by the IGBC and SIBBG for use in both Grizzly and black bear country! Bear resistant food containers are mandatory in most National Parks& Forests where grizzly and black bears are present. The Bare Boxer Contender will hold about a 3 day food supply for 1 person and fits in any Gossamer Gear backpack vertically or horizontally. Opens easily with most any key, knife blade or screwdriver.
Text in red is incorrect and exxagerated. Statements like that lead to questions like the OP asked.
Wayne
I have advocated the use of Ursak since it was developed.
The only section that requires a canister is the 5 mile section in Georgia between Lance Gap and Neel Gap and it expires June 1.
I mentioned the smaller, more packable bear canister, for where mandatory that's all.
Connie,
I'm not faulting the canister. I find the marketing speak text very misleading. That's all.
The Ursack rocks! I hope REI stocks the new Major version before my next trip.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
...and if there are no trees around? Specifically along the CDT in the Weminuche Wilderness in September.
FWIW: REI doesn't have the Ursack Major yet. Shucks.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
I presume a similar process applies as my BV suggests which is to place it 100 yards from camp, but I don't ever go that far. I also place pennies in it so I can hear the rattling if it gets moved. Perhaps some change in a closed up pot put in the ursack would work?
I presume a similar process applies as my BV suggests which is to place it 100 yards from camp, but I don't ever go that far. I also place pennies in it so I can hear the rattling if it gets moved. Perhaps some change in a closed up pot put in the ursack would work?
I think we're going to have to make this up as we go.
Wayne
happypad
03-26-2017, 20:12
I just bought a Bear Vault BV450. It's a bit heavy but I was able to get it inside my pack. I'll lose weight somewhere else.
Ok, back up....we're really pretending that our food sacks don't smell like food? To bears?
Ok, back up....we're really pretending that our food sacks don't smell like food? To bears?
Right on. Along with your pack. Tent. Sleeping gear. Clothes.
You're in constant contact with your food. Obviously 99.99% of bears don't want to eat you or your gear.
Glacier, Yellowstone, and the Canadian Parks have done a great job keeping bears and people safe with common sense.
Wayne
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for those using an Ursack - would you recommend the traditional Ursack s29.3 or the Ursack Major - the traditional said it could hold roughly 5 days worth of food while the other holds more - was curious which one other AT hikers were using
After reading online that many folks had trouble getting 5-6 days worth of food in the standard Ursack and after loading an old stuff sack with what I guesstimated was 7 days food, I bought the Ursack Major. It's big. Slightly larger than the stuff sack I used last summer.
Wayne
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Right on. Along with your pack. Tent. Sleeping gear. Clothes.
You're in constant contact with your food. Obviously 99.99% of bears don't want to eat you or your gear.
Glacier, Yellowstone, and the Canadian Parks have done a great job keeping bears and people safe with common sense.
Wayne
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You got the cart in front of the horse, here. Bears smell humans. When they find easy food and associate it with humans, they then smell human food and investigate. If it's easily stolen, they will come back, back and back until they are removed or euthanized. IMO, the best reason to not sleep with your food.
My buddy did a cross country trip through YNP. One night a grizzly walked thru their tent site without bothering anyone or any of the gear. The bear didn't associate humans with food and went on down the trail searching for something to eat.
Thanks. I know nothing.
Except that folks waste money on odor proof bags and then handle the bags with food all over their hands.
I've read numerous trip reports from the Thorofare and beyond by folks who listened to Grizz shuffling around the food prep area all night. Under the food bags hanging above Grizz.
They lived long enough to write the report.
Wayne
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JamesHenryTrotter
04-16-2017, 20:22
Ursack is _supposed_ to foil _some_ 4 legged critters but works better with a lining to seal in odors as well.
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OP SAK
https://www.rei.com/product/884265/loksak-opsak-odor-proof-barrier-bags-12-x-20-package-of-2
Yep, that's the one I have.
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AllDownhillFromHere
04-16-2017, 21:25
Depends where you're going, some places (upstate NY) mandate other types, as the BVs fail. Bears know that if they chew off the human-sweat-and-peanut-butter-scented plastic tabs on the lid, that it can be unscrewed. The Garcia ones can take more of a beating.
Around here, east central Florida, we have alligators as prevalent as bears on the AT. I very much doubt a year will pass by without a report of at least one 'gator encounter.
Looked at closely these are creatures that have become immune to the presence of humans (and their pets!) due to a continual interaction of nitwits feeding and harassing "cute" animals.
How anyone could view an alligator as cute is beyond my ken!
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MtDoraDave
04-19-2017, 07:11
One other thing to consider about the Ursack is ants. A thruhiker on my last section hike had an ant infestation of her Ursack bag that wasn't hung. After dumping out her food and inspecting it, it was a cherry pie that they had gotten into.
One other thing to consider about the Ursack is ants. A thruhiker on my last section hike had an ant infestation of her Ursack bag that wasn't hung. After dumping out her food and inspecting it, it was a cherry pie that they had gotten into.
Obvious case of operator error.
But something to be aware of.
Wayne
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Other than the areas that have dedicated bear bag systems you will struggle to see anyone with a proper bear bag set up (10' up and 4' away).
That unfortunately is true. In a week on the AT I saw people hanging their food on trees right next to their tent, over empty tent pads, 2' out, and some I could reach up and grab. I used the PCT method and took pride in my hangs. It was fun at camp to seek out the ideal tree where I could get a 12/6 hang. Humble brag. ;-)
AllDownhillFromHere
04-21-2017, 12:00
That unfortunately is true. In a week on the AT I saw people hanging their food on trees right next to their tent, over empty tent pads, 2' out, and some I could reach up and grab. I used the PCT method and took pride in my hangs. It was fun at camp to seek out the ideal tree where I could get a 12/6 hang. Humble brag. ;-)
I only ever hung in the Shenandoah, because they had those awesome metal poles. Nowhere else did it even seem necessary. Has the AT gotten more bear-y ?
HooKooDooKu
04-21-2017, 12:01
I must say, that's one of the things I now appreciate about camping in GSMNP... every back country campsite has bear cables, and it's a no brainer to hang your food on the cables.
...of course I say that... and I many times see people using the cables wrong.
1. The self closing hook connects to the eyebolt on the tree and you hang your food from the open hooks (frequently see people have swapped the hooks making it much easier for bears to unhook it).
2. Bears have learned that food bags can be shaken off the hooks (so you need to backup your hang with a carribeaner)
3. Mice can still climb the cables and get to your food bags.
While it added extra weight and expense, in hind site, using a bearikade bear canister was actually a very simple solution. It protected the food from bears and smaller critters, and the only thing you had to do was make sure you didn't leave the canister somewhere it could be pushed off a cliff or off into water.
Are you talking about the Bear Canister rule for camping at Blood Mountain Shelter?
Most people stop and camp at Lance Creek night before and then get an early start and go straight past Blood Mountain Shelter into Neel Gap. At least that's what a lot of us did so we didn't have to worry about carrying a bear canister. Keep in mind I did this completely barefoot and I was last to leave camp and got there in about 2 hours. It's completely not hard to skip this section and keep going. Remember it's downhill for anybody going South I would say it may be much harder.
Theory!
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MtDoraDave
04-27-2017, 07:26
On my last section hike, some of the bear cables didn't have hooks. Fortunately, I had a spare D ring or carabiner clipped on my backpack which saved me from having to fiddle with tying my food back to the cable and untying it in the morning without having any coffee in me (coordination is off until I've had my coffee in the morning ;) )
HelloNeiman!
06-08-2017, 14:13
I used an Ursack instead of a bear can while backpacking in Alaska's Denali National Park. I paired it with a Loksak Opsak odorless bag, and it was perfect. And to avoid concern of a bear running off with it, you simply tie it to a tree/branch. It's as good as they say, and much lighter and ieasier to pack. Combined, they weigh 8.3 ounces.
BuckeyeBill
06-09-2017, 11:31
I also use a Ursack for my food bag. I had the All White bag for a couple of years then bought an All Mitey when they came out. I switched because the All Mitey has the Ursack Minor laminated to the inside to the inside of an All White. The outer bag stops the bears and the Inside Minor stops the little furry critters with sharp teeth.