raingear- poncho or jacket

[iio]

I've been using a gore-tex rain jacket for a long time, and always end up hating how much I sweat in the thing as I hike.
So any opinions on using a poncho instead? Almost all my hiking is in the western part of the country.

[12trysomething]

Use both...https://youtu.be/W9EcF-3uQFY


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DuneElliot]

I'm been researching this for a while and I've come to the conclusion that a combo is the best of both worlds. I'll be ordering a Packa (www.packa.com) before the end of May. They are a little pricy but I think you get what you pay for...waterproof and breathable due to the fit, not the material.

[mitch]

I like my poncho a lot, mostly for the venting. I don't use my older gortex any more, but I'm looking for something newer, lighter.

[Greenlight]

Frogg Togs (even WalMart carries them) have worked ok for me. They are a bit bulky, but light, and they have a short lifecycle. Carry some clear Gorilla Tape on one of your trekking poles for on the spot repairs and you'll extend their functional life. Cheap, work well, and available everywhere. They make a poncho too, but I haven't tried it.

[Hikingjim]

it's not so useful to wear a goretex jacket that makes you just damp anyway.
I have a very light weight and "waterproof to a point" jacket that I use if it's hot, and then a really light poncho that I often bring as well. ponchos can be stifling too if you get the wrong one

If it's cold weather then I do go with my waterproof jacket... because it's good hiking with various layers if it's below 50 degrees. But summer, no

[nsherry61]

I gave up on rain jackets for anything other than mountaineering or long heavy bushwacking several years ago. I even use my poncho when skiing in wet conditions.

Ponchos hide your feet and get tangled up with them when climbing steep terrain, not a problem on trails or occasional steep sections, but pretty sucky for several hours of off trail steep climbing in the rain.

I use my poncho as my rain gear all year round. I also use my poncho as my shelter more than 1/2 the time.
Keep a piece of line handy to use as a belt on the poncho if the wind picks up.
You will get wet lower legs and lower arms, but your core stays dry and your pack stays completely dry (totally awesome) and you don't sweat, and a poncho is pretty inexpensive - actually I am using the Sea-to-Summit silnylon poncho that is about $100, but you can go less expensive with a little added weight, or lighter with some cottage manufacturers.

The FrogToggs ponchos are too small to be useful other than to help in emergencies in my opinion.

[daddytwosticks]

Mostly use a poncho in warmer months.. Any other time, I usually use my Packa and love it. :)

[Stevep311]

I've used the SeatoSummit Ultra Sil Nano Poncho/Pack Cover in the summer and it worked out pretty well. I did like that it was lightweight and vented pretty well, however, there was no avoiding getting sweaty which sucks. Then I bought a "breathable" OR Helium rain jacket. Love the weight at just over 5oz, but I have learned that nothing is breathable enough to prevent from getting clammy/sweaty.

After those options on trips I am now a lightweight umbrella user (warm months only).

[rocketsocks]

Me wife's been lookin' for her umbrella for awhile now, he he.

[DuneElliot]

I've used the SeatoSummit Ultra Sil Nano Poncho/Pack Cover in the summer and it worked out pretty well. I did like that it was lightweight and vented pretty well, however, there was no avoiding getting sweaty which sucks. Then I bought a "breathable" OR Helium rain jacket. Love the weight at just over 5oz, but I have learned that nothing is breathable enough to prevent from getting clammy/sweaty.

After those options on trips I am now a lightweight umbrella user (warm months only).

Since I am in the market...what are your thoughts on the S2S poncho/pack cover vs the Packa? I know the S2S is lighter and thinner and thus probably less waterproof

[Stevep311]

Since I am in the market...what are your thoughts on the S2S poncho/pack cover vs the Packa? I know the S2S is lighter and thinner and thus probably less waterproof

First I will say that any design that is both a poncho & pack cover is difficult to get on by yourself. Getting it pulled down over your pack is the hard part. I know that wasn't your question, but just an FYI.

Yes, the S2S is lighter than the Parka (approx 2.5oz lighter). This is simply because the 15D versus the 20D silnylon that each uses. I wouldn't equate this to being less waterproof as much as just a bit more delicate for the long term.

Note the actual weight of the S2S on my scale. I had read that they were very conservative on their listed weight spec.

34567

[nsherry61]

...what are your thoughts on the S2S poncho/pack cover vs the Packa? I know the S2S is lighter and thinner and thus probably less waterproof
The S2S poncho is going to be much more ventilated than a Packa, is going to get tangled in your feet while climbing steep stuff more than a Packa, and blow around in the wind more than a Packa unless you tie a line around your waist when it's windy, which I do and it works well. The Packa will also protect your arms more and your legs less than the S2S poncho.

I would be surprised if you cannot get a Packa built to be as light and S2S poncho/tarp with similar material.
And, thinner does NOT mean less waterproof. The PU/sil material that S2S uses is quite waterproof.

I have never used a Packa. I use my ultrasil S2S poncho/tarp as my go-to rain-gear and my go-to shelter on most trips, which saves quite a bit of weight. I love the ventilation, even in the winter, and would probably still use my ultrasil S2S poncho/tarp in preference to a Packa if I owned both because of the poncho's increased ventilation and increased versatility as both a good shelter and good rain-gear (or as backup shelter, emergency shelter and rain-gear).

I also really like the poncho, even as my day-hike, go-to, rain-gear because, especially in continuous rain, you can do stuff under the poncho while you are wearing it, kinda like being in a portable tent. I tuck my head back down through the head hole and read a map or use my cell phone/gps or eat a snack "out of the rain", and it rocks.

Good luck on your decision and have fun.

[DuneElliot]

First I will say that any design that is both a poncho & pack cover is difficult to get on by yourself. Getting it pulled down over your pack is the hard part. I know that wasn't your question, but just an FYI.

Yes, the S2S is lighter than the Parka (approx 2.5oz lighter). This is simply because the 15D versus the 20D silnylon that each uses. I wouldn't equate this to being less waterproof as much as just a bit more delicate for the long term.

Note the actual weight of the S2S on my scale. I had read that they were very conservative on their listed weight spec.

34567

Thanks for the info. I'll take it all into consideration. In regards to putting it on...from what I've read, many people put it on as a pack cover first if they think it might rain, then it is easy to pull over yourself when it does start to get wet.

[nsherry61]

First I will say that any design that is both a poncho & pack cover is difficult to get on by yourself. Getting it pulled down over your pack is the hard part. . .
And, I never have any problem with getting my poncho on over my pack. It is a complete non-issue for me. However, my brother-in-law, who also uses a poncho as his preferred rain-gear (but not as a shelter) does occasionally struggle with getting it on over his pack straight. I think the problem is two fold: 1) practice, 2) shoulder flexibility, 3) pack size (height above your shoulders/head).

[DuneElliot]

I also think it has to do with how tight-fitting the poncho/pack cover is. I prefer loose-fitting rain gear.

[Stevep311]

I also think it has to do with how tight-fitting the poncho/pack cover is. I prefer loose-fitting rain gear.

Me too, hence why I now use an umbrella!

[Secondmouse]

Sierra Designs has a new rain jacket this year called the Elite Cagoule and designed in conjunction with their Elite Rain Chaps.

it's like a combination jacket and poncho in that it has arms and shoulders like a jacket but no front entry. instead it is a pullover and the front half is separate from the back, like a poncho, which allows for ventiation.

in fact, it's almost like a Packa, except it's designed to go under, not over, your pack. and it's more expensive...

[DuneElliot]

Me too, hence why I now use an umbrella!

Won't work for Wyoming...lol :eek:

I also pack horses into the backcountry, so I need something that works for both!

[DuneElliot]

Sierra Designs has a new rain jacket this year called the Elite Cagoule and designed in conjunction with their Elite Rain Chaps.

it's like a combination jacket and poncho in that it has arms and shoulders like a jacket but no front entry. instead it is a pullover and the front half is separate from the back, like a poncho, which allows for ventiation.

in fact, it's almost like a Packa, except it's designed to go under, not over, your pack. and it's more expensive...

Looks more like a long rain jacket than the Packa; kind of a cross between the S2S Ultra-sil Nano Poncho/Pack Cover and a rain jacket. I like the idea of the Packa because of the integrated pack cover.

[Secondmouse]

Looks more like a long rain jacket than the Packa; kind of a cross between the S2S Ultra-sil Nano Poncho/Pack Cover and a rain jacket. I like the idea of the Packa because of the integrated pack cover.

yeah that's what I said -

"it's like a combination jacket and poncho in that it has arms and shoulders like a jacket but no front entry. instead it is a pullover and the front half is separate from the back, like a poncho, which allows for ventilation."

and - "...it's designed to go under, not over, your pack." that means you would still need a pack cover.

if you look at these 4 items - jacket, poncho, pack cover, and Packa, the Packa is the only one that covers all the bases, and that's a pretty neat trick when you get right down to it...

[Cedar Tree]

if you look at these 4 items - jacket, poncho, pack cover, and Packa, the Packa is the only one that covers all the bases, and that's a pretty neat trick when you get right down to it...

I agree. Thanks for your comments.
Cedar Tree

[OkeefenokeeJoe]

I looked at The Packa web-page and did not see a cuben fiber version. In the video link that was posted earlier in this thread it was stated that cuben fiber was an option. Maybe you have to call and make a special request. Does anyone know?

OkeefenokeeJoe

[DuneElliot]

I looked at The Packa web-page and did not see a cuben fiber version. In the video link that was posted earlier in this thread it was stated that cuben fiber was an option. Maybe you have to call and make a special request. Does anyone know?

OkeefenokeeJoe

As far as I know he only offers it in silnylon, but you might want to email him and ask. Anything is possible with the cottage industry. You might have to purchase the CF and send it to him though.

[OkeefenokeeJoe]

As far as I know he only offers it in silnylon, but you might want to email him and ask. Anything is possible with the cottage industry. You might have to purchase the CF and send it to him though.

Thank you, sir.

OkeefenokeeJoe

[DuneElliot]

Thank you, sir.

OkeefenokeeJoe

You're welcome...and it's ma'am actually ;)

[OkeefenokeeJoe]

You're welcome...and it's ma'am actually ;)

HA! My apologies.

[Cedar Tree]

I try to talk people out of custom cuben packas now, mainly due to the cost. If lightweight is what you seek, the 10 or 20d fabric is a much better deal at just an ounce or two more. Plus, the custom cubens are made by me while the factory packas are made by true professionals. The factory packas are much better than what I do. Finally, I am having doubts about the lifespan of cuben. The tents I've made seem to last about 2 years and then they start leaking. I've been moving away from cuben in my personal hiking gear as well.

The packa has not been made from silnylon since 2009. It is a sil/pu fabric which allows it to be seam taped on the inside. I thought this was on my website but it is not. I will update it shortly.

Thanks again for the comments and questions.
CT

[OkeefenokeeJoe]

I try to talk people out of custom cuben packas now, mainly due to the cost. If lightweight is what you seek, the 10 or 20d fabric is a much better deal at just an ounce or two more. Plus, the custom cubens are made by me while the factory packas are made by true professionals. The factory packas are much better than what I do. Finally, I am having doubts about the lifespan of cuben. The tents I've made seem to last about 2 years and then they start leaking. I've been moving away from cuben in my personal hiking gear as well.

The packa has not been made from silnylon since 2009. It is a sil/pu fabric which allows it to be seam taped on the inside. I thought this was on my website but it is not. I will update it shortly.

Thanks again for the comments and questions.
CT

Thank you kindly. Your explanation is perfectly logical. A 20d is going on my gear list at this very moment.

OkeefenokeeJoe

[DuneElliot]

Thank you kindly. Your explanation is perfectly logical. A 20d is going on my gear list at this very moment.

OkeefenokeeJoe

Didn't know he was a member here...glad to have direct responses and feedback on CF, and updated about the fabric. A 20D is on my list too...need another paycheck first.

[martinb]

I've become a poncho convert, recently. I picked up a $22 trial-version poncho off amazon and, after a frustrating wait, got to try it out week ago on a FL trail hike. It wasn't super hot (low 70s) and I wasn't sweating more than usual for what I was carrying (about 25lbs). Rain was off and on, sometimes coming down quite steadily, and I got to camp with just some dampness on my trail runners. I don't think I've ever stayed as dry using a rain jacket/pack cover. Bonus, you can pull the poncho off between showers without having to de-pack, love it.

I'm going to look at lighter, non cuban fiber, ponchos for my mountain hikes this summer.

[iio]

So much good information here! Now I'm thinking the packa may be the way for me to go instead of a poncho. Hiking out here in western Alaska, when it rains, almost always involves wind, so I think the packa may be more versatile for these conditions.
Although I have to imagine a poncho would be better yet for warm country hiking.

[nsherry61]

. . . when it rains, almost always involves wind, so I think the packa may be more versatile . . .
Not more versatile. But, probably easier to deal with. The poncho is still more versatile as far as more ventilation and being used as a tarp and/or ground cloth, etc. I frequently wear my poncho in high mountain winds and it's not a problem up to 30 mph or so, as long as I tie it around my waist. In truly stormy wet mountain weather, I would want a real jacket and I would depend on internal waterproofing (i.e. my compactor bag etc) for keeping my gear dry. I think the Packa makes sense for people that are looking for a really neatly designed and simple and versatile coat and pack cover combined. For all practical purposes, the Packa is still a rain coat with with most of the same advantages and disadvantages, except the Packa also covers your pack. If you don't need the ventilation and you aren't going to use the poncho for anything other than raingear, the Packa is probably the better choice.

[Traveler]

The purpose for rain gear is less about staying dry than it is staying warm. Ponchos don't do a good job of keeping me warm, especially when its windy with a standing temperature of 45 degrees and rain. That is a recipe for trouble. If your goal is to not get wet in the rain, thats not in the cards. My goal is to avoid the potential for hypothermia, so I carry a rain jacket. FWIW.

[nsherry61]

The purpose for rain gear is less about staying dry than it is staying warm. Ponchos don't do a good job of keeping me warm, especially when its windy with a standing temperature of 45 degrees and rain. That is a recipe for trouble. If your goal is to not get wet in the rain, thats not in the cards. My goal is to avoid the potential for hypothermia, so I carry a rain jacket. FWIW.
And, we are back to the very wise HYOH.

My goal is reasonable comfort; warmth is part of that, as is being reasonably dry. When moving, I overheat in traditional rain gear down to well below freezing. If not moving much, waterproof breathable rain gear works great. In high winds, I use a very light wind-shirt to maintain my insulation and, if it is raining, I use a poncho, to maintain enough ventilation that I don't wet out from the inside. If it stops raining, I can pull my poncho off and I still have my very light wind shirt to continue maintaining my insulation. That all being said, I've also done day trips where I just used my poncho as my only "wind shirt" when I got up to high elevations in high, cold winds, and it worked surprisingly well. To each, their own. We all just have to keep reminding ourselves that what works for us, is not necessarily what's best for others.

[daddytwosticks]

The purpose for rain gear is less about staying dry than it is staying warm. Ponchos don't do a good job of keeping me warm, especially when its windy with a standing temperature of 45 degrees and rain. That is a recipe for trouble. If your goal is to not get wet in the rain, thats not in the cards. My goal is to avoid the potential for hypothermia, so I carry a rain jacket. FWIW.

This is why I only tend to use my poncho in warmer weather. Summertime shower hits? Find a rock/stump trailside, take a squat, and sit out the thundershower nice and dry under my poncho. I've used this techique numerous times with my legs hiked up under the poncho while I've sat relaxed and snug. I've stayed completely dry waiting out the 15 minute shower. Ponchos are usually cheap enough to give it a try. Go for it. :)

[martinb]

The purpose for rain gear is less about staying dry than it is staying warm. Ponchos don't do a good job of keeping me warm, especially when its windy with a standing temperature of 45 degrees and rain. That is a recipe for trouble. If your goal is to not get wet in the rain, thats not in the cards. My goal is to avoid the potential for hypothermia, so I carry a rain jacket. FWIW.

Huh? Staying dry is the best method of staying warm. If my rain gear keeps me dry, I only need to adjust for the ambient temp. The purpose of rain gear is to keep you dry, first. The rest is up to experience.

[Traveler]

Huh? Staying dry is the best method of staying warm. If my rain gear keeps me dry, I only need to adjust for the ambient temp. The purpose of rain gear is to keep you dry, first. The rest is up to experience.

The issue was poncho versus rain jacket. I think most would agree that if you are in an all day rain, or walk into a cloud for several hours, you will likely get wet from the precipitation/vapor itself, from wind carrying water/vapor to your body, or from exertion regardless of what rain gear you use. Once I am wet limiting the effects of evaporative cooling conditions becomes the next step from my experience. Yours may vary.

I don't find ponchos work that well for me in 45 degree rain with a wind given their tendency to sail and allow water and vapor entry, nor do I particularly care for their characteristics when off trail doing things. These are fairly common poor weather conditions, +/- 10 degrees I can run into during summer months in mountainous terrain, which is what I prepare for. I've used ponchos and found they were prone to sailing, allowed wind to carry moisture under them, and were inadequate as a wind blocking garment most of the time. I don't dissuade others from using them or Packa type rain ponchos, they just aren't for me.

[nsherry61]

. . . I don't find ponchos work that well for me in 45 degree rain with a wind given their tendency to sail . . .
Have you ever tied your poncho down around your waist (and under your pack) with a piece of cord? It works exceedingly well, although it does reduce ventilation some. As for 45 degrees, raining and windy, that what Oregon is 6 months out of every year (constant rain/drizzle/mist, wind and 35-45 degrees). And, that is what I've spend most of my life in, and that is where I started using a poncho in preference to other rain gear options about 10 years ago because it worked so much better at keeping me drier and thus warmer. Also, with the poncho's ventilation, the moisture from sweat (or blown mist) evaporates while you are moving instead of waiting until you stop and take off your jacket and get figgen cold!

[martinb]

Sailing was a non-issue for me. Wind gusts were about 25-30 mph, in a semi-open prairie area and any misting was burned off by hiking. I understand the jacket/pack cover method quite well as this is what I have used for years. For me, in the south-east, a poncho works better, offers more versatility, and, most importantly, keeps me drier.

[Berserker]

My rule of thumb is above mid 40s poncho, below mid 40s jacket. When it's warm I often times don't even wear the poncho and just get wet. I'll typically only use the poncho in warmer weather in a torrential downpour or steady all-day type rain.

[RockDoc]

If you really want ventilation use an umbrella. If it's raining harder you can wear your jacket, but unzipped. Also get rain wear with pit-zips or else sew them in yourself.

[Traveler]

Have you ever tied your poncho down around your waist (and under your pack) with a piece of cord? It works exceedingly well, although it does reduce ventilation some. As for 45 degrees, raining and windy, that what Oregon is 6 months out of every year (constant rain/drizzle/mist, wind and 35-45 degrees). And, that is what I've spend most of my life in, and that is where I started using a poncho in preference to other rain gear options about 10 years ago because it worked so much better at keeping me drier and thus warmer. Also, with the poncho's ventilation, the moisture from sweat (or blown mist) evaporates while you are moving instead of waiting until you stop and take off your jacket and get figgen cold!

Yep, tried it, didn't like it. I stay with the jacket. Don't have to remove the jacket to keep moisture at bay, but it really depends on the person and the jacket material so it may not work for everyone.

[Connie]

This is a very informative thread.

I have had only two rain jackets, that I did not wet-out from the inside out: British ventile and a lightweight PU nylon rain jacket that had all the now-standard ventilation options plus it had a nylon open mesh material inside.

I would like the Sea to Summit Nano poncho mentioned because, years ago, I had a Kelty poncho very much like it. I would purchase that one.

The Packa looks great, and, the YouTube father's day gift video does it justice.

I appreciate the measurements provided, now, at the Packa website, as well as, fabric description and selection of colors. At last! Nice color selection, that includes subtle colors.

LightHeartGear has a rain hoody, worthy of consideration because it covers the pack-to-back gap, where shoulder straps tend to conduct wet inside the pack. It acts like a useful rain cape. It is my experience, most rain hits my shoulders.

I gave up on having a separate rain jacket and separate pack cover, years ago, due to my getting a sweaty back, and, not having rain protection over the shoulder straps at the attachment point with the pack.

For me, occasional rain or a mountain thundershower I like that poncho. I also hunker down in a brief cloudburst.

If it is real rain, like the rain I can get in the coastal mountains in the Pacific Northwest, I think the Packa might be "just right". I will have to find out.

[poolskaterx]

I don't have a ton of experience with ponchos but my last outing I had two days of solid rain that I REALLY appreciated having a poncho; I will probably not leave without my poncho again. I think depending on conditions it is not "crazy" to have a jacket and a poncho. My rain jacket is 7oz so I don't think the weight penalty outweighs the convenience. Poncho can double duty as a ground sheet, and jacket can double duty as wind shirt/warmth layer for sleeping, etc.

[Secondmouse]

I think the Packa is a pretty good idea but I already have both a Precip Jacket and STS Nano poncho so I won't be getting one. I like that I can sit and spread out the poncho like a mini-shelter and even pull my head inside for map or phone use. can't do that with a jacket...

[-Rush-]

This has been on my list of appealing upgrades for a while. Not sure if it was mentioned here.

http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/groundsheet_poncho.shtml

[Connie]

If you really want ventilation use an umbrella. If it's raining harder you can wear your jacket, but unzipped. Also get rain wear with pit-zips or else sew them in yourself.

I DIY, trying out new things first, then, purchase for professional quality.

I could not add pit-zips to a jacket I have: The fabric wouldn't match and I don't have the skill. I suppose I could carefull seam-rip the sideseams, resew the separate sides and add narrow strip of velcro.

I have been using cordage for a waistband for the ponchos I have tried.

I like the idea of a torso length 2-way zipper on both sides of an existing poncho I have.

[iio]

So I am going with a poncho at least for warm weather hikes. Concerning the wet arm issue, I see there are tyvek arm covers available at Amazon. Think they are meant for people working with chemicals, paints etc, but guessing this would solve the wet arm thing with a poncho, although the futz factor may be too much, for me anyways.

[Greenlight]

I should have specified earlier that I meant the Frogg Toggs rain suit, not their poncho. I've never bought one of their ponchos. I've used ponchos in the military, and those ones have a generous cut, but they're heavy.


Frogg Togs (even WalMart carries them) have worked ok for me. They are a bit bulky, but light, and they have a short lifecycle. Carry some clear Gorilla Tape on one of your trekking poles for on the spot repairs and you'll extend their functional life. Cheap, work well, and available everywhere. They make a poncho too, but I haven't tried it.

[daddytwosticks]

So I am going with a poncho at least for warm weather hikes. Concerning the wet arm issue, I see there are tyvek arm covers available at Amazon. Think they are meant for people working with chemicals, paints etc, but guessing this would solve the wet arm thing with a poncho, although the futz factor may be too much, for me anyways.

Just skip the arm covers. It's the summer. Wet arms won't hurt you. :)

[plexusbritt]

I'm a dedicated poncho person, but mainly because it is the most versatile for me.

Being on a budget, I prefer to buy quality that can fit multiple capacities. I use it for backpacking and for riding my horses because there is enough excess material to keep my saddle and saddle bags from getting wet out on the trail. plus, if the horses are feeling frisky, they go on faster than a jacket. lol

I have the Sea 2 Summit Nano that has been mentioned here already. I'm sure there are other good ones out there but it saves me from buying a legit riding rain jacket and goes backpacking as well.