View Full Version : newbie, water
tombolino
05-02-2016, 21:51
I was on AT this weekend, 3 days, 2 nights and learned a lot about all kinds of fun stuff. For water I brought Aquamira pills and Mini Sawyer.
I used the Aquamira pills and when I ran out, I started drinking out of bottle with Mini in it. I was winging it.
I have been watching bunch of videos on You Tube about water filtration etc, understand a lot more but still have some questions....
-Seems, its ok to drink right away straight out of mini sawyer attached to bottle or bladder?
-Those folks using Aquamira drops or pills, just being extra careful?
-At some point I was not clear if I should use Aquamira AND mini sawyer?
-Many videos talk about a dirty water bag or bottle they will filter from one bag/bottle to another.....I know it refers to the recently picked up water st spring or stream....but does the dirty water concept apply when you have a mini?
-Not clear on difference between Aquamira drops vs pills.
Thank you.
saltysack
05-02-2016, 22:16
No need for both..mini attached to a 2l bladder i.e. Sawyer or evernew...fill bladder at source screw on mini and fill needed water into 1l Smartwater or Gatorade style bottle which ever you prefer...not one way better just the way I chose. I prefer to enjoy the REAL Mountain spring water when I'm out not chemicals if I can avoid it.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Greenlight
05-02-2016, 22:26
1-Seems, its ok to drink right away straight out of mini sawyer attached to bottle or bladder?
2-Those folks using Aquamira drops or pills, just being extra careful?
3-At some point I was not clear if I should use Aquamira AND mini sawyer?
4-Many videos talk about a dirty water bag or bottle they will filter from one bag/bottle to another.....I know it refers to the recently picked up water st spring or stream....but does the dirty water concept apply when you have a mini?
5-Not clear on difference between Aquamira drops vs pills.
Thank you.
tombolino,
From my perspective:
1. Eh...sure. If you're high up at a natural spring, etc. Otherwise, I wouldn't.
2. No, they're being the regular kind of careful. Try to differentiate between water sources. Springs near the source high up at elevations. Then clear streams away from the source. Then flowing water at lower elevations, then stagnant water anywhere. Then mud. Anything below springs near the source I get antsy and want a backup. Filtration plus Aquamira or iodine or something.
3. See number 2.
4. The more questionable the water source, the higher the likelihood you're going to get a bug from dirty water contamination. At this point you want to filter your Sawyer from a dirty squeeze bag or bottle into a clean drinking bottle or reservoir, making sure that you don't get any dirty water in your clean bottle/reservoir. Wipe everything down after transfer, too, with something clean.
5. No difference that I know of other than the medium. It does the same thing.
tombolino
05-02-2016, 23:03
Thank you Greenlight. So, if I use Aquamira and dont "see"anything nasty, do I still wanna filter sometimes?
admirald7s
05-02-2016, 23:35
Thank you Greenlight. So, if I use Aquamira and dont "see"anything nasty, do I still wanna filter sometimes?
My understanding is that murkiness in the water (and cold water) reduce the effectiveness of Aquamira. So, beyond looking for floaters, you should also be checking the clarity of the water. If it's too cloudy, filter first and then use Aquamira.
bigcranky
05-03-2016, 07:09
The filter is just that, it filters out solid things from the water. Anything dissolved in the water (heavy metals) gets through. (This is not true of all filters; some have an activated charcoal element that takes out dissolved contaminants. But for the Sawyer, it's just solid bits -- many of them far too small to see.)
Aqua Mira is a chemical that kills biological things, like bacteria and viruses. It doesn't remove dissolved stuff, or solid stuff. It takes 15-30 minutes to kill most things. The drops and the pills are the same, though the pills are far more convenient they also cost a lot more. Some hikers will pour water through a bandana to get out the "floaties" before treating with Aqua Mira. I used to be like that, but after a while you get used to your water being crunchy. :)
For most backcountry water on the AT, either one is sufficient. With the Sawyer, you can drink immediately, even right out of a water bottle with the filter attached to it. For larger streams and rivers at lower elevations, it might be prudent to use both (think cattle runoff), but I'd avoid many of those sources anyway due to potential chemical contamination -- it's a judgement call, depending on how many farms or industrial plants you think might be upstream.
The Sawyer comes with a bag for collecting "dirty" (untreated) water. We carry a couple of the 2-liter Sawyer bags to collect water, then filter it out into our drinking bottles. At some campsites and shelters the water is far down a steep hill, so being able to collect a lot of water in one trip makes life easier - I just filter it when I come back to camp.
We had the Sawyer Mini, but recently got the regular Sawyer because the flow/output is so much faster. We always carry some Aqua Mira tablets as a backup in case the filter fails, or we are at a water source and don't have time to filter.
daddytwosticks
05-03-2016, 07:14
I just use Aqua Mira drops and filter out the floaties with a small square of no see um mesh. :)
tombolino
05-03-2016, 08:23
Big crank said: "We carry a couple of the 2-liter Sawyer bags to collect water, then filter it out into our drinking bottles"
so.....
I still dont get it, why do that if you can just drink straight out of bottle with the Mini on? Whats the dif between both processes?
Mini is slow to drink from. I find it easier to drink from a bottle.
tombolino
05-03-2016, 08:50
Seems to me it would be slower to filter water from one bag to another or bottle vs just drinking from bottom or bag with mini. Unclear why taking the step of filtering from bag to bottle or vice verse 1st....?
DuneElliot
05-03-2016, 08:51
The difference between Aquarmira drops and tablets: Drops take 30 mins for effectiveness, tablets take 4 hours.
Seems to me it would be slower to filter water from one bag to another or bottle vs just drinking from bottom or bag with mini. Unclear why taking the step of filtering from bag to bottle or vice verse 1st....?
Its not the filtering of the water, it's the drinking of the water.
saltysack
05-03-2016, 09:55
Seems to me it would be slower to filter water from one bag to another or bottle vs just drinking from bottom or bag with mini. Unclear why taking the step of filtering from bag to bottle or vice verse 1st....?
I don't like squirt water in mouth...prefer drinking from bottle but can attach directly to bottle if bag fails...2l sawyer bag doesn't carry well on outside of pack. It only takes a minute to filter a liter into a hard sided water bottle....do what works for you. As others said if your selective of your source no need to use chemicals...I've never had an issue Judy using sawyer mini or reg. Many folks don't treat at all.....
Big crank said: "We carry a couple of the 2-liter Sawyer bags to collect water, then filter it out into our drinking bottles"
so.....
I still dont get it, why do that if you can just drink straight out of bottle with the Mini on? Whats the dif between both processes?
I carry two 2 liter bags also, my rule is that your dirty water capacity should equal or exceed your clean water capacity. Like Cranky says it means only one trip to the source. You've got plenty of time to filter at camp.
I filter and treat every thing, it's just the way I'm made, belt + suspenders. I once drank straight from a state park pump and was uncomfortable for the next couple of days; I'm not saying that there were bugs in the water, just that it was different from city water.
When I've carried dirty water bags a distance to camp, I just put them under the lid of my pack, they ride okay. Make sure the cap is tight.
I would be worried that whatever chemical treatment you are using would damage the filter element and render it ineffective...unless you are using a ceramic filter, which don't seem to be that popular these days...and if you do damage your filter element you might as well not bother using two methods to purify your water if only one of them is going to work anyway.
bigcranky
05-03-2016, 14:59
Big crank said: "We carry a couple of the 2-liter Sawyer bags to collect water, then filter it out into our drinking bottles"
so.....
I still dont get it, why do that if you can just drink straight out of bottle with the Mini on? Whats the dif between both processes?
Personal preference. I'd rather filter a bunch of water and put it in water bottles (one liter wide mouth Gatorade bottles) than try to squirt water into my mouth from a bag.
Tennessee Viking
05-03-2016, 18:25
I would personally go for drops over pills. You can adjust your mix ratio better with drops.
I carry either my Steripen or Hiker Pro as my main. Then use Aquamira as a backup.
If I am in a remote area with elevation, I would simply do one of my mains. If I was in or around farm land or lower elevations, or if the water was murky, I would use Aquamira as well.
And it also depends on your source, is it a seep or is it a churning stream? Is the water cool or warm? Murkiness? Is there a smell to it?
There are several approaches. Usually it's filtering or Aquamira, but not usually both. Some folks don't treat water at all. There's also the Steripen.
For years now my strategy has been the Hiker Pro (pump filter) and a three liter Platy bag. I never bothered with a "dirty water" container. I've just now switched to using a Sawyer Squeeze, so I may need to adjust my routine a bit. First application will be on a bike tour, so I won't be carrying the Platy bag at all.
LittleRock
05-04-2016, 07:35
I used to treat my water with chemicals. Then I bought a Sawyer for my last trip. I had no idea how wonderful mountain spring water tasted! When I treated the water with chemicals, it just tasted like chemicals.
saltysack
05-04-2016, 09:05
I used to treat my water with chemicals. Then I bought a Sawyer for my last trip. I had no idea how wonderful mountain spring water tasted! When I treated the water with chemicals, it just tasted like chemicals.
+1we get enough chemicals in our water at home
tombolino
05-08-2016, 11:58
DO you all know if the Mini Sawyer fits Platypus products?
DO you all know if the Mini Sawyer fits Platypus products?
It fits a water tube easy enough. Didn't someone just post an inline quick disconnect so you can fill a hydration bladder from the tube?
a lot of people use sawyer minis in gravity feed with all kinds of bladders.
I just realized you are probably talking about the soft platypus water bottles. Oops.
tombolino
05-08-2016, 21:36
Yall.....help me out....
Trying to decide between a:
1. Platy Big Zip 2L (has hose): 5.6 oz, cant stand it up on table, but easier to fill
2. 2L PLaty Bottle + add separate Platy Hose kit: can stand it up on a table, harder to fill, total 3.5oz. No dirty water system
3. Two 1L Platypus PlusBottle 1-Liter Water Bottle With Push/Pull Cap (https://www.rei.com/product/768123/platypus-plusbottle-1-liter-water-bottle-with-pushpull-cap) + Hose kit, total 3.8 oz. Dirty water system.
I own a Mini Sawyer and have a collection of Smartwater bottles and Gatorade bottles. This is not necessarily only for AT use :)
Thoughts?
saltysack
05-08-2016, 21:44
Yall.....help me out....
Trying to decide between a:
1. Platy Big Zip 2L (has hose): 5.6 oz, cant stand it up on table, but easier to fill
2. 2L PLaty Bottle + add separate Platy Hose kit: can stand it up on a table, harder to fill, total 3.5oz. No dirty water system
3. Two 1L Platypus PlusBottle 1-Liter Water Bottle With Push/Pull Cap (https://www.rei.com/product/768123/platypus-plusbottle-1-liter-water-bottle-with-pushpull-cap) + Hose kit, total 3.8 oz. Dirty water system.
I own a Mini Sawyer and have a collection of Smartwater bottles and Gatorade bottles. This is not necessarily only for AT use :)
Thoughts?
Threads don't seat perfect on platy bags, they leak....get an evernew bladder seems to fit better...without leaking
There are adapters, if you already have platys.
I like their Dirty bag because it says Dirty.
I prefilter Dirty water with a coffee filter or a cloth as I fill the Dirty water bag or bottle. This is for the big stuff or "floaties". I do this because I have done it so much it is a habit. I started prefiltering, to make my purchased water filter last longer.
I think that is a good practice.
tombolino
05-09-2016, 17:48
Sorry yall, still a bit unclear about what water config to go for.
I need to do hydration hose + whatever Platy oe Evernew because my backpack doesnt have quick pocket access on the go to drink water. I like to hike and drink, not stop every time I want a drink. So if I drink from the 2L i just filled.....I need to filter it and maybe Aquamira it on the spot?
So considering I will have: Smart Water or Powerade/Gatorade bottles too and a Mini Sawyer and Aquamiras, Im trying to imagine the "flow" of things and what to buy.
Platy Big Zip 2L (has hose): 5.6 oz, cant stand it up on table, but easier to fill......vs
2. 2L PLaty Bottle + add separate Platy Hose kit: can stand it up on a table, harder to fill, total 3.5oz.
Two 1 Liter PLaty or Evernews (too heavy, redudant?)
Thank you
You are making this way too complicated. Fill up your water bottles with filtered water. When you are thirsty. Stop the required 15 seconds it takes to take a water bottle out of your pocket and drink it, or some of it. Replace it and continue on your way. Or you can wait for rest and food breaks and drink then. (You do plan on taking breaks, right?)
saltysack
05-09-2016, 20:01
You are making this way too complicated. Fill up your water bottles with filtered water. When you are thirsty. Stop the required 15 seconds it takes to take a water bottle out of your pocket and drink it, or some of it. Replace it and continue on your way. Or you can wait for rest and food breaks and drink then. (You do plan on taking breaks, right?)
+1...you'll want to take a breather every so often anyway...no brainer
MtDoraDave
05-11-2016, 07:13
So I don't have to stop, I carry a water bottle in a sling and just grab it and sip as I go. I tied it to the handle/strap on the top of my pack so it doesn't hang too low. There are other holders available that you can put on the waist belt of the your pack.
This is the one I use: (though a quick google search came up with tons of others)
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6e/cb/84/6ecb84b87a9b12cbfbf57cea954a2972.jpg
saltysack
05-11-2016, 07:21
So I don't have to stop, I carry a water bottle in a sling and just grab it and sip as I go. I tied it to the handle/strap on the top of my pack so it doesn't hang too low. There are other holders available that you can put on the waist belt of the your pack.
This is the one I use: (though a quick google search came up with tons of others)
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6e/cb/84/6ecb84b87a9b12cbfbf57cea954a2972.jpg
I don't have to stop either but find a minute or two breather helps to take in the surroundings.....I tend to hike longer not faster.
tombolino
05-16-2016, 21:32
Friends,
Im almost there in understanding water organization.
-When refilling, I will use Aquamiras and filter with either Mini Sawyer or home made filter.
-Because of Aquamira use and if I dont have time to filter at that moment, that means that some of my water will have to wait until I can drink it.
-So between Platy or Sawyer water pouches + Gatorade or Smartwater bottles, Im not clear how many of each I need to bring.
-Keep in mind I may use this system beyond AT where there is less easy access to water.
-I am not thru hiking.
So Im trying to understand the "rhythm" of drinking, refilling, how many bottles/Platys/Pouches while trying to stay light in weight, filter and Aquamiras.
saltysack
05-16-2016, 22:00
Friends,
Im almost there in understanding water organization.
-When refilling, I will use Aquamiras and filter with either Mini Sawyer or home made filter.
-Because of Aquamira use and if I dont have time to filter at that moment, that means that some of my water will have to wait until I can drink it.
-So between Platy or Sawyer water pouches + Gatorade or Smartwater bottles, Im not clear how many of each I need to bring.
-Keep in mind I may use this system beyond AT where there is less easy access to water.
-I am not thru hiking.
So Im trying to understand the "rhythm" of drinking, refilling, how many bottles/Platys/Pouches while trying to stay light in weight, filter and Aquamiras.
Not rocket science...no need to use aquaria and filter....many don't filter at all depending on source...simply fill one 2 liter sawyer bag...attach squeeze or mini...squeeze into empty water bottles....
Thanks for the chuckles Y'all.
It's just water.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
If you are doing chemicals do it the right volume of water and the right amount of time before use.
I think the Mini Sawyer on the water bottle is fine. I prefilter with open weave or mesh cloth while I am filling the bottle: a little mosquito netting works, whatever.
I only use a Dirty water gravity feed filtration system, using my Sawyer Mini or Squeeze, overnight in camp.
I usually don't do that much camping, if I do, I want more water for more elaborate food and drink: real coffee, like that. Otherwise, if I need more water I would have to be hiking the southern terminus of the PCT or the CDT amd that means hiking at night.
Me? I would rather hike the PNT, for the ambient temperatures and for availability of water.
A sawyer filter will filter out anything that your chemicals will kill. You do not need to use both.
Having a backup for water filtering may not be a bad idea, however.
Mr. Bumpy
05-18-2016, 09:17
This has been entertaining.
Now about boiling...
Sawyer bags aren't bulletproof . Having the filter on the bags all the time is hard on them . But HYOH .
I've found this eliminates the pain in the A@# part of trying to get a bottle out of the side mesh pockets of my pack. Fits perfect on a shoulder strap loop already on the pack. I don't strap the bottom of the bottle as I get no swaying. I take 2 smart water bottles. I also replaced the push/pull cap on my squeeze with the cap from a smart water bottle. Just find it easier and no need to carry that little cap for the filter which would get lost anyway
http://aquaclip.com/
Spiffyguy
05-18-2016, 11:17
I have a 2 liter dirty bag I use on my sawyer mini. I would fill and filter into my 1 liter smart water bottles. I would typically carry 2 and then a 700 on my should strap for drink mixes. This worked well and the sport top on the 700 could be used to back flush the mini. I switched over to aquamira last year for the quickness of it. I can get in and out quicker than with the sawyer. One or the other works though. All what you want to use. I like trying out new things too.
CoolBobby
05-18-2016, 11:41
Get an MSR Guardian. At just over a pound, it will be the best pound you carry. It purifies water, its quick and last forever. I am sure I will get blasted for this when a Sawyer weighs nothing compared to this, but considering that water is truly the one thing in your pack that will keep you alive, why skimp.
I like to use a carbon filter water bottle after the Sawyer.