View Full Version : Cold Sleeper - Need different sleeping bag
Hikingmaddie
05-08-2016, 17:52
Hey all, just got off my first ever section hike on Georgia AT! had some bad luck the first night and had to set up camp in the pouring rain with rapidly dropping temps to about ~35 degrees. It gave me the chance to learn that my 30 deg REI Polar Pod just won't cut it in the future. The next night it was warmer at 40 degrees but I still was chilly and would like to go warmer. I don't plan on upgrading the sleeping bag for a few months at least but I would like some direction on a good quality bag under or around 150-200$.
The end goal is to thru hike or do a long section on the AT from Georgia and it would be around an early May start so I'm thinking a 20 deg bag might do the trick? I know the pros and cons of down vs synthetic and i have to say that synthetic is tempting after sleeping in one even tho I was pretty wet from the rain, but I would consider down. What do you all suggest? I want quality that will last me for years to come, thanks!!
bigcranky
05-08-2016, 18:18
What pad were you using? What were you wearing to sleep? These things make a big difference, especially the pad.
That said, women often sleep colder, and the temp ratings tend to be for men. A 20F bag from one of the top bag makers might be better for a May start for you.
What did you have underneath your sleeping bag? Were you wearing base layers and a hat? Socks? Did you eat well before bed? Did you heat up a bottle of water and bring it to bed with you?
EN comfort rating for women in that bag is 40 degrees. No wonder you were cold.
What pad were you using? What were you wearing to sleep? These things make a big difference, especially the pad.
That said, women often sleep colder, and the temp ratings tend to be for men. A 20F bag from one of the top bag makers might be better for a May start for you.
A good pad could be part of your solution.
Massdrop has a Kelty 20 degree down bag for an OK price. It is the only bag I know of near your budget that might be warm enough for you.
Or shop quilts. They tend to be lighter and lower priced than down bags of the same temperature rating.
Definitely shop women's EN comfort ratings.
The EN ratings are based on an R-5 pad under you and you wearing long under, socks, hat and gloves.
I find that wool works best for all of those items.
Test your gear in adverse conditions before starting a long hike.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
scrabbler
05-08-2016, 21:34
The problem here is that people spending $150 expecting to be warm at 30 degrees arent spending $ on an R5 pad.
saltysack
05-08-2016, 21:48
I have a like new quality marmot helium 15 down bag I'll sell for $240 if interested. It's warm with a good pad to low 20's and I'm also a cold sleeper.
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Hikingmaddie
05-08-2016, 22:15
I was using the Z lite sol as my sleeping pad and admittedly did not have the right clothing for the trip. That being said, I still think the bag itself is not up to par for anything beyond summer sleeping. Ill definitely look at womens EN comfort ratings as thats something I didn't consider too much, and I will definitely be getting some solid baselayers and clothing. Thanks for the advice everyone! I've heard about the Kelty 20 deg bags (I think the cosmic is what I hear about?) any women out there with experience thru hiking with that? I just want to get some direction for a solid/safe choice assuming I have the Z lite sol and the right clothing.
I "google" online reviews. If people state that product runs warm or runs cold, I believe it.
I have a Hammock Gear Burrow 20 and XTherm small air mattress. I use a ground sheet. I have sleepwear, I can wear as long underwear all-day if cold. I wear a beanie, at night. I also have a face mask to help keep me warm, and keep moisture off the down top quilt. I also have dry socks for sleepwear. If really cold, I have an accessory hood that extends down over my shoulders.
Eat food, drink a little water: metabolism warms.
nsherry61
05-08-2016, 22:44
Couple of thoughts:
The z-lite sol is only R 2.6, not very warm if you are a cold sleeper in temperatures below 40 degrees or so.
A wet synthetic 30 degree bag is probably closer to a 50 or 60 degree bag, so, if your bag was wet, don't blame the bag. And, a wet 30 degree down bag becomes about an 80 degree bag, so if you are not confident that you can manage to keep your gear dry, synthetic is probably your better option even when compared to "dry down.
Women's EN is about 6-10 degrees colder than the men's EN rating. So you don't necessarily need to know the women's EN rating, you just need to know that a men's EN of 30 is really closer to a 40 for a woman, or a men's EN of 20 is closer to a 30 for women.
It might be well worth working on dialing in your pad and clothing system while still using your Polar Pod, as there is no reason you shouldn't be able to figure out how to stay warm in 35 degree weather in a 30 or 40 degree bag, and dialing in your pad and clothing with a bag that isn't overkill is a good skill to have so you're not carrying extra unnecessary insulation and/or you can figure out how to stay warm in unexpectedly harsh conditions if needed.
Relative to your Polar Pod, two more backpacking oriented, women's specific, synthetic bags, still from REI, are the Carina 32 and Lyra 24, both good and in your price range.
If you want to go with down, it does last significantly longer if cared for and is lighter and more compressible, and more expensive. And there are some workable options in the $200 range.
Good luck
I started a thread, about setting up shelter in the rain, that may be a help.
I have my sleep-system inside a separate dry-bag inside my backpack, as insurance. I air it, first thing before I pack it, so it is not damp from perspiration or respiration or condensation during the night.
I use a bug bivy to keep it clean and altogether, during the night.
I wash my clothing, at every convenience. I wash myself, every night before sleep, because clean gear is warmer.
I avoid wearing my outerwear clothing, for sleeping, keeping it either at the foot inside or under my down quilt, so it is nice to put on when I get up.
I avoid hard-face nylon fabric because it feels cold, to the touch. Soft-face nylon or brushed nylon is not as cold, to the touch. Other fabrics, are nice too.
These are some of my "keeping warm" strategies: I am my own "central heating".
The clothing and gear works, or not, as it helps your own "central heating".
Some food items help me feel warmer, than other food. Find out what works for you.
If you can, do some "backyard camping".
Hikingmaddie
05-09-2016, 08:55
It might be well worth working on dialing in your pad and clothing system while still using your Polar Pod, as there is no reason you shouldn't be able to figure out how to stay warm in 35 degree weather in a 30 or 40 degree bag, and dialing in your pad and clothing with a bag that isn't overkill is a good skill to have so you're not carrying extra unnecessary insulation and/or you can figure out how to stay warm in unexpectedly harsh conditions if needed
thank you for the advice! I will be trying to get those other variables in check for my next trip!
Hikingmaddie
05-09-2016, 08:57
I started a thread, about setting up shelter in the rain, that may be a help.
I have my sleep-system inside a separate dry-bag inside my backpack, as insurance. I air it, first thing before I pack it, so it is not damp from perspiration or respiration or condensation during the night.
i will for sure check out the thread on rain setting up :) thank you for the response!
MtDoraDave
05-09-2016, 12:23
I am also a cold sleeper. After struggling through a teen temperature night, I decided to not do that again. I went with a zero degree bag, and was perfectly cozy last March when the temp hit 15... wearing only base layer and using only a ProLite Plus.
nsherry61
05-09-2016, 14:20
I am also a cold sleeper . . . and was perfectly cozy last March when the temp hit 15... wearing only base layer and using only a ProLite Plus.
FWIW: A prolite plus is R4.2 vs. the zlite which is only R2.6. One cannot underestimate the value of good ground insulation and good head and foot coverings.
I was using the Z lite sol as my sleeping pad and admittedly did not have the right clothing for the trip. That being said, I still think the bag itself is not up to par for anything beyond summer sleeping. Ill definitely look at womens EN comfort ratings as thats something I didn't consider too much, and I will definitely be getting some solid baselayers and clothing. Thanks for the advice everyone! I've heard about the Kelty 20 deg bags (I think the cosmic is what I hear about?) any women out there with experience thru hiking with that? I just want to get some direction for a solid/safe choice assuming I have the Z lite sol and the right clothing.
The Kelty bag that Massdrop has is the SB20. Head and shoulders above the Cosmic Down 20.
If REI still makes them, a bag called the Igneo (men's) gets good reviews. There is a similar women's version, but the name escapes me at the moment.
Wayne
The women's bag is the Joule. EN Comfort rating of 23 degrees. Over budget. Wait for a sale.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Sandy of PA
05-09-2016, 21:05
Is the REI polarpod new? Can you return it and upgrade to a warmer bag without breaking the bank?
Is the REI polarpod new? Can you return it and upgrade to a warmer bag without breaking the bank?
Brilliant! If it is less than 1 year old, yes!
R-5 pad budget friendly idea: Buy another Z-pad thingy and use both together when it's cold. That's way cheaper than the big bucks R-5+ pads.
Wayne
Hikingmaddie
05-10-2016, 20:03
Brilliant! If it is less than 1 year old, yes!
R-5 pad budget friendly idea: Buy another Z-pad thingy and use both together when it's cold. That's way cheaper than the big bucks R-5+ pads.
Wayne
The Polar Pod only cost me about 35$ total as I got it on a years end sale with a REI coupon so I'm not out too much money and figured if I ended up needing something warmer I can always find a use for it as i live in Florida with some very warm temps :) I would like to keep the same pad and work on my layering, but if I still have issues I will have to look into something with a better R value. Lots of opportunities to learn & find a better fitting set up with summer around the corner!
Hikingmaddie
05-10-2016, 20:05
and in fact I do have an extra therm a rest inflatable pad, though Im not sure the exact one off the top of my head. I'm almost positive it provides better ground insulation, so I may have to take a few trips with that pad instead of the z lite to feel the difference
2 pads @ R-2.5 each = R-5. You won't find an R-5 pad any cheaper or lighter.
Good luck.
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
The Polar Pod only cost me about 35$ total as I got it on a years end sale with a REI coupon so I'm not out too much money and figured if I ended up needing something warmer I can always find a use for it as i live in Florida with some very warm temps :) I would like to keep the same pad and work on my layering, but if I still have issues I will have to look into something with a better R value. Lots of opportunities to learn & find a better fitting set up with summer around the corner!
Did you ever think about stacking sleeping bags, or quilts?
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/blog/quilts-106-quilt-layering-for-cold-temps/
saltysack
05-10-2016, 20:22
The Polar Pod only cost me about 35$ total as I got it on a years end sale with a REI coupon so I'm not out too much money and figured if I ended up needing something warmer I can always find a use for it as i live in Florida with some very warm temps :) I would like to keep the same pad and work on my layering, but if I still have issues I will have to look into something with a better R value. Lots of opportunities to learn & find a better fitting set up with summer around the corner!
That pad alone only works for me above 45....even with a quality 15* down bag and mid weight cap...I sleep cold..
and in fact I do have an extra therm a rest inflatable pad, though Im not sure the exact one off the top of my head. I'm almost positive it provides better ground insulation, so I may have to take a few trips with that pad instead of the z lite to feel the difference
Take both until you know how they perform. Sleep on one. If you are cold, sleep on the other. If you're still cold, sleep on both.
If you are still cold, start over.
Water heated to steaming but not boiling in a water bottle wrapped in some layers of clothes will simmer you nicely.
Z Lite Sol x 2 = 5.2.
Wayne
Hikingmaddie
05-12-2016, 20:54
Take both until you know how they perform. Sleep on one. If you are cold, sleep on the other. If you're still cold, sleep on both.
If you are still cold, start over.
Water heated to steaming but not boiling in a water bottle wrapped in some layers of clothes will simmer you nicely.
Z Lite Sol x 2 = 5.2.
Wayne
will do :) thanks for the advice wayne
Hikingmaddie
05-12-2016, 20:56
I havent! mainly because I only have one sleeping bag at the moment, but def seems versatile for those with more gear!
Hikingmaddie
05-12-2016, 20:57
Did you ever think about stacking sleeping bags, or quilts?
http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/blog/quilts-106-quilt-layering-for-cold-temps/
i havent, mainly because i only have one sleeping bag at the moment but it def seems versatile for those with more gear! tho a bit heavy i would think
Creek Dancer
05-13-2016, 11:27
I have a like new quality marmot helium 15 down bag I'll sell for $240 if interested. It's warm with a good pad to low 20's and I'm also a cold sleeper.
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This is an excellent sleeping bag. I have used this down to about 20 degrees, along with some down booties, and I was plenty warm. Nice price, too! Just remember that the temperatures ratings are the temperatures at which the bag will keep you alive...not necessarily toasty warm.
Creek Dancer
05-13-2016, 11:29
That pad alone only works for me above 45....even with a quality 15* down bag and mid weight cap...I sleep cold..
On really cold nights, I use one of those Mylar insulated windshield visors under my pad for extra insulation. works really well too! And when you fold it out, it's about the size of a pad. Some of them come with straps that you can use to attach the visor to your pad.
saltysack
05-13-2016, 11:38
On really cold nights, I use one of those Mylar insulated windshield visors under my pad for extra insulation. works really well too! And when you fold it out, it's about the size of a pad. Some of them come with straps that you can use to attach the visor to your pad.
Yep I've also used one..definitely helps just prefer to carry less as those are kind of bulky. No need since bought a xtherm for winter..
I use my Xtherm year round because I know I can sleep well on it.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Wayne
Sent from somewhere around here.
Hikingjim
05-14-2016, 09:34
if you're planning on a thru hike I wouldn't consider a synthetic bag. Just too bulky and too much extra weight if you need a low temperature rating
You just have to take extra precaution to make sure the down doesn't get wet
I do recommend synthetic to budget conscious friends or people hiking in some area where the bag is likely to get very damp, but not for the AT
I have various bags that I have had female partners use over the years. And it is amazing how inaccurate some of the ratings can be (especially some budget brands). So just do you research when you find one that looks suitable
If you end up considering used, it does come with some risk if you don't know the person. If people didn't treat it right, the 20 degree bag may actually now be a 40 (especially synthetic, which doesn't hold temperature rating forever)
I had a similar experience years ago. My friends and I were climbing in NC, on our way to camp after the climb it started to sprinkle rain and the temps were in the upper 40's. I was damp and cold all night. I said I would find a way to stay warm from now on. After a lot of research I found Stephensons' warmlite bags. http://warmlite.com/products-page/sleeping-bags/
The trade off is somewhat heavy by today's standards, but when I know it might be cold, I carry my Stephenson's. Their down filled air mat has a great R rating, (can't remember what it is now) but I keep warm.
Hey all, just got off my first ever section hike on Georgia AT! had some bad luck the first night and had to set up camp in the pouring rain with rapidly dropping temps to about ~35 degrees. It gave me the chance to learn that my 30 deg REI Polar Pod just won't cut it in the future. The next night it was warmer at 40 degrees but I still was chilly and would like to go warmer. I don't plan on upgrading the sleeping bag for a few months at least but I would like some direction on a good quality bag under or around 150-200$.
The end goal is to thru hike or do a long section on the AT from Georgia and it would be around an early May start so I'm thinking a 20 deg bag might do the trick? I know the pros and cons of down vs synthetic and i have to say that synthetic is tempting after sleeping in one even tho I was pretty wet from the rain, but I would consider down. What do you all suggest? I want quality that will last me for years to come, thanks!!
rocketsocks
05-17-2016, 16:38
In the bag crunches can warm things a bit and also raise the humidity in the bag allowing it to stay warmer longer.
rocketsocks
05-17-2016, 16:41
In the bag crunches can warm things a bit and also raise the humidity in the bag allowing it to stay warmer longer.but don't do a 20 min workout lest you compromise the insulation.
Hikingmaddie
03-10-2017, 16:18
Just to bring this thread back around a bit, I just finished up a 5 day section hike on the Foothills trail in South/North Carolina. I used the same sleeping bag (30 degree REI polar pod) and the same sleeping pad (z-lite). I added an inexpensive sleeping bag liner-I'd say it added about 5 degrees of warmth- and proper layering (merino wool baselayers, fleece midlayer, down outerlayer, merino wool hat, and some fleece gloves). I also brought a nalgene on this trip, in case I ran into some colder than expected temperatures. Two of the nights it even rained and got into the low 40's, similar to my first trip! I was not quite toasty, but certainly warm enough to sleep through the night. In weather lower than the 40's I'd probably still want to upgrade to a warmer bag, but it was great to have the opportunity to find the limits of my sleeping arrangement! and i didn't even have to break out the nalgene!
Longboysfan
03-10-2017, 16:39
You could also look into a bag liner to help a little with warming it up.
Just to bring this thread back around a bit, I just finished up a 5 day section hike on the Foothills trail in South/North Carolina. I used the same sleeping bag (30 degree REI polar pod) and the same sleeping pad (z-lite). I added an inexpensive sleeping bag liner-I'd say it added about 5 degrees of warmth- and proper layering (merino wool baselayers, fleece midlayer, down outerlayer, merino wool hat, and some fleece gloves). I also brought a nalgene on this trip, in case I ran into some colder than expected temperatures. Two of the nights it even rained and got into the low 40's, similar to my first trip! I was not quite toasty, but certainly warm enough to sleep through the night. In weather lower than the 40's I'd probably still want to upgrade to a warmer bag, but it was great to have the opportunity to find the limits of my sleeping arrangement! and i didn't even have to break out the nalgene!
1. You are a cold sleeper.
2. You need a real down sleeping bag.
How long have you owned the REI bag? I would be demanding a refund.
Add up the weight, bulk and cost of all of the clothes you had to buy, carry and wear in mild weather and convert all of that into a decent 5 or 10 degree bag. The Western Mountaineering Versalite or Antelope should work for you around 30 degrees. The Antelope works for me at zero and my Alpinlite is fine at 10-12 degrees. I obviously sleep warmer than you.
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/sleeping-bags/extremelite-series/versalite/
http://www.westernmountaineering.com/sleeping-bags/microfiber-series/antelope-mf/
Good luck.
Wayne
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Ps:
Buy an Xtherm to put under the foam pad.
Wayne
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Take both until you know how they perform. Sleep on one. If you are cold, sleep on the other. If you're still cold, sleep on both.
If you are still cold, start over.
Water heated to steaming but not boiling in a water bottle wrapped in some layers of clothes will simmer you nicely.
Z Lite Sol x 2 = 5.2.
Wayne
You got a source on that? I didn't know R-Value's were linear like that.
You got a source on that? I didn't know R-Value's were linear like that.
Been discussed ad nausea. Folks smarter than this Geezer sat that R values are additive.
Wayne
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You got a source on that? I didn't know R-Value's were linear like that.
On second thought...
You got a source that says I, and several other members of WhiteBlaze, are wrong?
Wayne
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booney_1
03-10-2017, 20:57
1. ditto on xterm pad...or almost anything else. The zlite provides minimal warmth and seperation from the ground
2. As a boy scout (poor) camping in upstate NY...year round...I used quilted insulated underwear...tops and bottoms. It made a huge difference.
Check out Carhart or LLbean for primaloft insulated underware. The bottoms are as important as the tops. These are often used by hunters for sitting in a blind or tree stand. If money were no toption I'd go for down insulated...but they are $$$. These can really stretch the temperature range of your bag.
4eyedbuzzard
03-10-2017, 21:27
You got a source on that? I didn't know R-Value's were linear like that.Yes, they are additive. https://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/thermal-moisture-protection/rvalues.html http://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/
Yes, they are additive. https://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/thermal-moisture-protection/rvalues.html http://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/
Thanks. The Section Hiker page slipped my mind.
Wayne
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4eyedbuzzard
03-10-2017, 21:40
The caveat on R values being purely additive is that there is no air flow between them creating a heat loss, nor any thermal bridging effects from the outside material on the sides of two separate pads. In practice, there would probably be a small reduction in insulating R value when two separate pads are used as opposed to one single pad of the same calculated value.
Yes, they are additive. https://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/thermal-moisture-protection/rvalues.html http://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/
Thanks! Learn something new everyday.
Thanks! Learn something new everyday.
You're welcome.
Wayne
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