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View Full Version : May do NOBO thru-hike starting this mid-February (6 weeks from now)



minnesotasmith
12-31-2005, 23:34
My company is not getting me any projects now, I've got the savings banked I would need for a thru-hike, and I mostly have the gear I figure I need. I covered all but 8 miles of the AT in GA during two section hikes last summer, so think I have my shakedown hiking largely behind me.

I have some questions that I would love some quick answers on, to kind of round out some rough spots in my planning. I was thinking of leaving from Amicalola about Feb. 14, but can vary my start date by up to 2 weeks earlier or a week later if my hike would likely go better. I am especially concerned with:

1) Will I need more footwear than trail runners (heavy New Balance running shoes) like I've worn for all my AT hiking the last 2 years? It's a mud/snow concern. I do intend to bring my (lightweight summer) mid-calf gaiters along. I figure on snowshoes and crampons both not being worth lugging unless I head north before January is out. (Realistically, my pace will be sub-10-miles/day the first month at least.)

2) I suspect I will be unable to get space in shelters along the AT a lot of the time for the first month due to numerous other hikers on the Trail, especially on Fri/Sat. nights. I like using shelters due to the social aspect, and not having to set up a tent when it's muddy/rainy. Any comments on my prospects for obtaining shelter space in GA/NC? I historically tend to leave shelters and actually get back on the Trail relatively late (like 0930-1000) many mornings:o .

3) From my experience on my sections and overnight AT hikes, I have settled upon using Aqua Mira (in combination with coffee filters and a tiny collapsible food-grade funnel for prefiltering) for water treatment. I also bring 2 - 3 one-liter Nalgene bottles for water storage. After the personal drought of near-Trail water I experienced last July hiking the day and a half north of Neels Gap, I'm not so sure I'm overloaded with that third bottle. I try to keep a bottle emptied into me as I hike, so I can take advantage of streams crossing the Trail.

Anyway, what are my prospects for places near the Trail to buy more Aqua Mira? How many miles between places that sell it will I average, south of Maryland? If I have to carry a month's worth at all times, I will (I go through about a gallon and a half of drinking water a day, and a pair of little AM bottles does about 30 gallons), but would like a better idea on this.

4) I figure on a starting pack weight including all consumables such as food (but not water, since it constantly changes so much) that would run in the high 30s (pounds) based upon my summer AT experience. I know I have to add some later winter/early spring gear, though. I'm looking at considering SOME of these:

-Puffball jacket (already have, never used, is new, large enough to wear several layers underneath)
-rather thin 100% synthetic turtleneck long-sleeved buttonless shirt (already have; like thin sweatshirt + turtleneck)
-some kind of long pants (thin, all-synthetic, for sub-50 degrees/sleeping); any ideas?
-rain pants (have a pair, but was thinking of getting Frogg Toggs bottoms); already have Packa and nylon windbreaker, which I used extensively on both section hikes
-thin Balaclava (already have; like ski mask, but with fuller eye opening so can wear eyeglasses)
-long underwear (already have, mainly for sleeping/emergencies)
-thin sleeping bag liner (don't have yet)

-will still bring 2 pair synthetic shorts, 2 short-sleeved synthetic shirts, ~3 pair proper hiking socks.

5) Other major gear will be my Henry Shires tarptent, Mountain Crossings 40-degree synthetic sleeping bag, two LED headlamps (smallest type -- uses 3 AAA batteries), Kelty pack, alcohol stove, single titanium pot (it's between 1.3 - 2 L; will have to look at again to see which), no mug, Lexan spork, 6' long thick egg-crate surface green Coleman sleeping pad, 1-gallon collapsible Platypus water bag, probably my inflatable Therm-A-Rest air mattress (long, I'm 5'10") from MC, one pair of Crocs as my only other footwear for around camp/at hostels, one long (close to 6') hiking stick. I've done at least one 5-day section hike using every one of these.

6) I was driven nuts last summer by flying biting mosquitos while I slept. Is there any kind of practical mosquito netting I can use in shelters? Headnet, single large can of Deep Woods Off (or equivalent), gloves, boonie hat and 2 bandannas are my main anti-bug gear, and I don't want to go up much from those.

7) My only food loss to varmints on my section hikes was by a flying squirrel getting into my food bag at the first shelter past Neels Gap (it got to a properly bear-bagged food bag). Are the Ursacks available again yet? Are they worth having? Is there an adequate substitute product?

8) My Therm-A-Rest's product literature warned that DEET (in bug repellant) can hurt it. On section hike before I got Coleman pad, I tried to sleep with Packa between it and me to prevent direct contact for fear of damaging Therm-A-Rest. Is this a real risk, or just lawyer BS?

Thanks.

minnesotasmith
01-01-2006, 02:27
Presuming the site is up-to-date, it's for sale again, at $55.00:

http://www.ursack.com

minnesotasmith
01-01-2006, 11:12
1) I should mention that I'm VERY resistant to cold weather (I'm in south-central Minnesota as I write this, with 10" or so of snow on the ground). I routinely shovel snow in nothing but a thin hooded one-layer "hoodie" beyond shirt, jeans, boot socks, regular underwear, leather work boots, and a thin pair of garden gloves. Without this info, no doubt the 40-degree sleeping bad would be too thin, even with the liner I'm planning on adding.

2) I do think I have the food issue figured out. I've posted several long pieces on hiking food in the past for anyone that wants to see where I'm coming from. I intend to make up a number of packets of ready-to-cook whole-grain hot cereal (has rye, wheat, triticale, some oats, possibly some quinoa) with raisins pre-measured for my pot size that I will carry along, and have in some of my maildrops (will only do a few MDs). Am intending to go heavy on fish (mainly salmon) in foil packets, cuttlefish jerky, several (carefully chosen for nutrition such as spinach/peas) freeze-dried vegetables, wholegrain crackers, wholegrain corn mush (ideally eaten with meat or beans), protein powder, powdered milk in everything I can possibly pour it into, decaf green tea, orange juice powder (NOT Tang/SunnyD), etc.

3) I noticed a BIG drop in my appetite on my two section hikes that had not come anywhere close to returning even after 5 days on the Trail, hiking every day. How long before my appetite a) returns to normal level, and b) goes above that?

Jack Tarlin
01-01-2006, 13:25
*If you leave around Valentine's Day, you should be OK for shelter space; that's still considered pretty early for a start; plus the "weekend crowding" is a non-issue, as there simply aren't that many folks out in February, at least not weekenders or short-timers. Plain and simply, not many folks wanna go backpacking in February.

*You will indeed have a greater chance of running into lousy weather, so if you go with ultra-lightweight footwear, this could be an issue. You might want to carry an extra pair of socks the first few weeks so you always have something warm and dry to change into at day's end, as your feet will frequently be gettiong wet during the day.

*There are all sorts of lightweight bug-net systems out there; most tarpers use these once they get up North.

*Forget the can of "Off". You'll want something stronger, especially once you get to Connecticut and Massachusetts; I suggest Ben's, which is almost four times as strong as stuff like Off or Cutter's. In New England, repellants that are 20-25% Deet simply won't do the job; I suggest you use something stronger, but use it sparingly. And no, it shouldn't hurt your air mattress. If
it does, you're probably using too much of it.

*Aqua Mira is available primarily at Outfitters and some hostels....in the early days, you'll find it at Neel Gap; Franklin; the NOC; probably Fontana Dam; Gatlinburg; Hot Springs: Erwin; and Damascus. You shouldn't have a problem buying it, but keep in mind that it's not cheap; most folks will replace theirs 6-8 times during their trip, meaning it'll cost them close to $100.00 over the course of the trip. Polar Pure, which I think works just as well, costs about twelve bucks one bottle and will last you the entire trip.

*One last thought about leaving in February....lots of folks do this thinking they'll "beat the crowd" that way by being a few weeks ahead of the main pack. Unfortunately, this doesn't always work out: You have a MUCH greater chance of running into bad weather if you leave in February. This means that you'll be making later starts in the morning whether you tent or are in a shelter; you'll take longer and more frequent shelter breaks during the day to sit out bad spells of weather; you'll also have shorter hiking days-----when you get to a shelter at three PM and the weather is lousy or threatening, you're likely to stop for the day prematurely instead of hiking til dinnertime as you would in good weather. Nobody wants to do a few more miles if they know they're heading into a storm, so if you start hiking in February, plan on some abbreviated hiking days. Also, folks who leave earlier in the season tend to take more, and longer town stops, including unplanned ones. And if you wake up in Hiawassee or Franklin and its sleeting out, you're very likely to take a zero day, whether you planned to or not, and wait for better weather. This means two things for early starters: They'll be spending extra time in towns which will affect their schedule, and they'll spend a lot more money. Many folks who start in February lose so much time that they eventually end up hiking with folks who started a week or two later....in other words, the "start early and beat the crowd" theory frequently doesn't work out, as the crowd catches up with you anyway, and all you've done is killed a lot of time in motels and spent several hundred bucks you may want later. It's up to you, but I think pushing your start date back a week or two might not be a bad idea. And the best way to "beat the crowds" is to either go Southbound, or avoid shelters and established campsites and find your own place to stay.

minnesotasmith
01-01-2006, 14:13
1) I don't mind sleet and snow when they are falling, as long as we're not talking high winds/coming down an inch a minute. Now, deep mud and deeper snow are an issue for me as much as they are for anyone, admittedly, as is ice on steep slopes. Having trouble even staying on the Trail due to windblown snow covering blazes and making the Trail difficult to even see are negatives, too; those are most of why I would not consider heading out in January.

2) I will be starting out pretty slow; I don't figure on getting to Fontana Dam before sometime in the second week in March.

3) This is really a good time for me to get to do my thru-hike, given my work and savings situations; if I wait until late July (what I understand is the ideal season to start a SOBO), I may have to put it off at least another year. It eats me up on a daily basis that I haven't had my thru yet. Also, I need that experience for planning my other big hikes I want to do during my life (mainly the 2 trans-Alaska ones).

4) Any hints on a particular lightweight bug system you or someone else here has used and recommends?

5) I'll have to check and see if Polar Pure is also chlorine dioxide-based, or is simply a hypochlorite (less effective and worse-tasting).

6) On spending more unplanned town days due to weather, wasting time and money... I can see your point. However, I figured I'd just eat, sleep, and write while in a shelter on such days. The lost wages (from extending my hike) and cost of the food would thus be the main monetary expenses.

7) No comment on my figuring my 40-degree bag (when combined with a thin liner and clothing I listed) being adequate (if minimally) for a mid-to-late February NOBO start?

8) I'm astounded at how little stove fuel my little alcohol stove goes through, especially with how I cook. I normally cook two potfuls at night (and not every night), one of food and one of a hot beverage (mostly green tea), and no other time.

MOWGLI
01-01-2006, 14:24
4) A headnet would work, but personally, I prefer to sleep in my tent when its buggy. So do manyother folks. FWIW, bugs shouldn't be much of an issue until mid to late May.

5) Polar Pure is iodine crystals, that form a solution - pure & simple.

7) I started March 7 and saw temps in the low teens. I wouldn't consider bringing my 40 degree bag in February. Not for a moment. Not with a liner and every stitch of clothing I am willing to carry.

8) Your stove will not be as efficient in winter temps.

minnesotasmith
01-01-2006, 15:12
So, I need to obtain/do the following:

1) Get a 15-degree (or warmer) bag, trading out for my summer bag at Pearsburg as is SOP.

2) PPure is iodine? Eh, think I'll pass, and stay with my Aqua-Mira. I just need to keep one full set and one partial set with me; not a large addition to my pack weight.

3) On my stove... Well, I can go easy on using it, for one thing, making wood campfires and/or eating cold food as much as possible. For another, using lighter alcohols (methanol, from the yellow HEET bottles) will get around the low temps some. Methanol is less efficient (burning a given volume/weight produces less heat than ethanol or isopropyl do), but it's cheap and I still won't need to carry very much.

4) So no major shelter crowding issues pre-Smokies, then, presuming I leave Feb. 14 and don't get too slowed down by weather/zero-days. Good. All I ask for is to clear the Smokies before the tsunami of other hikers hits.

5) Any comments on my clothing plans?

minnesotasmith
01-01-2006, 15:41
Food supply issues...

Well, I checked several links from when I posted on hiking food before (at http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8142&highlight=food ), and spinach powder, green pea flakes, and dried broccoli tops are still listed as available. I haven't yet found a reasonable source for dried codfish, though. Anyone know of one?

minnesotasmith
01-01-2006, 19:07
I've read in books on WWI and WWII about how the Germans used a dried vegetable sausage as a field food item for some of their troops. I've done some searching online for it, with no success in finding it. (It's turning out to be harder to find than dried cod.) Any ideas on a place that would carry it at a remotely reasonable price?

minnesotasmith
01-01-2006, 19:24
Unfortunately, the system ate it before I could open it (a popup blocker). Whomever sent it to me, please resend it. Thanks.

Sly
01-01-2006, 19:29
What's with the controversial sig? This is a hiking forum! :p

minnesotasmith
01-01-2006, 19:42
It's about genuine conservation. I believe that conservation is a subject of interest for many serious hikers, so IMO is on-topic on this forum (if not really on-topic for this thread, but you did ask).

Anyway, Sly, do you have any opinions or experiences you would like to share with me about the questions I asked earlier in this thread?

Frosty
01-01-2006, 22:59
It's about genuine conservation. I believe that conservation is a subject of interest for many serious hikers, so IMO is on-topic on this forum (if not really on-topic for this thread, but you did ask).

Anyway, Sly, do you have any opinions or experiences you would like to share with me about the questions I asked earlier in this thread?Well, actually, this forum is about hiking in general and about hiking the AT in 2006 in particular, not your political views.

Lots of subjects interest serious hikers that are unrelated to hiking and not really appropriate to this forum. For most serious hikers, for most serious people, religion and politics are subjects of interest. They just aren't on-topic.

I don't care, use whatever line you want, appropriate or inappropriate. TROLL and ROCK can figure it out. That's why we pay them the big bucks. But if you truly want Sly or anyone to answer questions rather than addressing your signature line, you have only to use a hiking related one, rather that a political one that is sure to draw responses. Especially one so illogical :D

Sly
01-02-2006, 01:23
It would be one thing if you were posting to the non-AT or politics forum, but as far as I can tell, you're the only one on Whiteblaze that has seen fit to interject politics, via your sig, on every one of your posts in the hiking forum.

minnesotasmith
01-02-2006, 01:26
"you're the only one on Whiteblaze that has seen fit to interject politics, via your sig, on every one of your posts in the hiking forum"

You should start reading other members' sigs besides mine, then. There's plenty of political commentary contained in member signatures on WhiteBlaze.

smokymtnsteve
01-02-2006, 01:36
yahyahyah,,,the liberals are the real conservatives...gw and the repugs are radicals.

come to real conservative country ;)

http://www.alaskab4udie.com/

Sly
01-02-2006, 02:02
You should start reading other members' sigs besides mine, then. There's plenty of political commentary contained in member signatures on WhiteBlaze.

There are? Have an example?

domnokmis
01-02-2006, 10:05
....................

Panzer1
01-02-2006, 12:23
1) I should mention that I'm VERY resistant to cold weather (I'm in south-central Minnesota as I write this, with 10" or so of snow on the ground). I routinely shovel snow in nothing but a thin hooded one-layer "hoodie" beyond shirt, jeans, boot socks, regular underwear, leather work boots, and a thin pair of garden gloves. Without this info, no doubt the 40-degree sleeping bad would be too thin, even with the liner I'm planning on adding.

I can appreciate that someone from Minnesota would be more resistent to cold weather but I think there is still a big difference between working in cold weather around your house or job where you can always go back inside to warm up if you need to and being out on the trail where if you get cold your just SOL. I would bring a warm sleeping bag rated for the expected cold weather.


"two LED headlamps (smallest type -- uses 3 AAA batteries)"

I don't know why you need 2 head lamps. I would bring one head lamp and for backup just bring a small "Photon 2 micro light" (color=white) its about a half ounce and small too. Its lithium battery is uneffected by the cold. Bright enought to use in a tent or shelter. The new ones are VERY bright indead. I just got one for Christmas. Get the one with the ON/OFF switch.

Panzer

minnesotasmith
01-02-2006, 16:13
Thanks for the input, Panzer.

I'm figuring on going ahead and taking a 20-degree bag, changing out in Virginia somewhere north of Mt. Rogers as is SOP for NOBOs. I suppose I had still better take the liner and a set of thermal underwear. Weight, weight, weight.

As far as the 2nd LED goes, they don't take up squat for weight or room, and there will be few enough hours of daylight in Feb. that I would feel underprepared without that backup. The first LED headlamp I owned ($13.00 small one from ChinaMart that I used for night training walks) worked fine for about 150 hours (changed out batteries around each 40-hour mark, and not all the way out even then) no longer works, and it suffered no major hit of which I am aware. Lightweight often means less robust, after all; compare Gregory Packs to what Jardine favors, for example.

I figure on mainly ever seeing any persistent snow (on the Trail where I walk even in the afternoons) in the Smokies and occasionally between there and the north side of Mt. Rogers, given that I expect to start out not ever breaking 10 miles a day the first 3 weeks. Do you agree with that expectation?

Spirit Walker
01-02-2006, 17:09
You could see snow anywhere on the trail. You will be at elevation. You may have 70 degree days or you may have 20 degree days. You take a chance starting that early. If you are prepared and are willing to carry extra food - it's not that big a risk. I would definitely carry maps though, in case you need to bail.

cls
01-02-2006, 17:24
I'm starting Feb 19. I sleep cold , so I'm starting with a O degree bag. Maybe overkill but I find that usually by the fourth night in the woods I've started losing enough weight so that I get cold even easier. Besides, the bag packs up smaller and lighter than extra clothes. During my winter hikes on AT in Ga and NC I've found that all I need are long pants, ltwgt longunderwear bottoms, short sleeve t-shirt, long sleeve ltwgt top, powerstretch fleece top, and down jacket.Plus the usual outerwear, hat and gloves.
If you hit the Smokies in mid March expect it to be crowded with spring breakers, expecially if the weather is good.
Spring is the rainy season down here. Water is usually available.
I'm also starting out with two lights due to the short days and expected lack of fellow hikers to borrow from. A small LED head lamp and another small LED that has an alligator clip.
Unless the weather is real bad I will probably be going a little faster. Look forward to seeing you along the way and comparing notes.

saimyoji
01-02-2006, 17:56
Now, the real question is: will you be carrying a razor, or will you let your face come to resemble a....well, some things are better left unsaid. Right?? :eek:

minnesotasmith
01-02-2006, 23:25
Hope to see you as well, cls. I suspect you'll pass me. Look for the guy with the big green sleeping pad and a hiking stick (instead of poles).

Spirit Walker, if anything I carry too much food, as well as stove fuel. At any point along the way, if I have to sit in a shelter for a couple of days waiting out some weather, I'll have no shortage of chow. Maps? I bring lots of maps. I'm a geologist by trade and something of an amateur military historian, so I'm most comfortable with maps and have to force myself to leave some at home.

Saimyoji, I bring along a disposable razor in my little silnylon drawstring bag I use for toiletries when hiking, using it at least every time I get a town shower. I don't have the same deep-seated secret fantasy you are obviously referring to (discussed previously on WB months ago) that the bearded guys presumably all share. ;)

Hikerhead
01-02-2006, 23:53
Will there be a book written about your hike?

minnesotasmith
01-03-2006, 00:04
"Will there be a book written about your hike?"

Don't think my AT hike will be sufficiently notable to merit that. What's the line, you have to be first, best, or different?

Now, my two planned trans-Alaska hikes, those might be a different story...:clap ;)

smokymtnsteve
01-03-2006, 00:06
Now, the real question is: will you be carrying a razor, or will you let your face come to resemble a....well, some things are better left unsaid. Right?? :eek:


Just dip me in Honey and throw me to the lesbians;)

The Solemates
01-03-2006, 12:22
we started feb 1. i wouldnt even think of starting mid-feb with a 20 deg bag. i took a 5 deg bag, my wife took a 0 deg bag.

John B
01-03-2006, 13:32
If you're thinking about Polar Pur, I'd try it out beforehand by drinking nothing but treated water for a couple of days. The reason is that I used it and found later that I was allergic to iodine. I tried it beforehand by drinking a liter of treated water and it didn't bother me - only after drinking it for a couple of days did the symptoms begin. I then switched to AquaMira and had no problems. The taste didn't bother me, either.

I saw you last May at Walasi-Yi when I was hiking Amicalola - Hot Springs. I'm the guy that kid with the messed up knee said looked like Hulk Hogan with a burr haircut. It was in the early morning and I was stuffing my face with PopTarts, drinking something euphemistically named "hot chocolate," and treating blisters.

Good luck on your trip.

springerfever
01-03-2006, 14:04
I've done some great section hiking in the Smokies in Jan/Feb/Mar and it is spectacular......BUT.....your major concern may well be ICE. Pretty amazing when you first see and experience the world's longest bobsled run, such as the one I experienced a few years back near Icewater spring shelter. This stuff slowly melts in the afternoon with sun exposure and then refreezes solid with nightfall.

It will slow you down considerably, footing is treacherous and I would recommend hiking poles and some sort of crampon. I use the Yaktrax, which are kinda micky-mouse but work well and are extremely light (comparatively speaking).

Good luck with your hike and definately take a warmer bag, additional clothes and plenty of food. If you are soloing be particularly careful......

minnesotasmith
01-03-2006, 16:51
Okay, I'm convinced re a warmer sleeping bag (sub 20 degrees). I'm definitely going to stay with my coffee filters/funnel/Aqua-Mira system for water. I'm really not much on the taste of iodine-treated water; I don't need anything to discourage me from drinking enough water on the Trail. Am figuring at this point on adding Frogg Toggs bottoms and tops. Umbrellas only work for me when I have a short (day) pack, or for around camp on rainy days.

Anyone think that a bug shirt or bug pants are worth having? I wear a nylon windbreaker (over a short-sleeved shirt) in all weather warm enough I don't need more than that. It protects my skin to some degree from brush, bugs, and UV (I'm light-skinned enough I get noticeable sun exposure if I'm outside a lot even in winter in GA.) A nylon head net was handy last section hike, so it's definitely coming along.

I am pretty happy with a hiking staff over poles, especially for the downhills where I most need balance help; poles just don't seem to reach down as far, nor to adjust height as quickly as does a staff. A halfway thick staff seems more effective at discouraging other people's loose dogs, too.

I'm hiking alone, unless and until I make friends on the Trail. Sole sibling, both nieces, and one parent will apparently see me off at Amicalola.

Anyone have an idea where I can order oddball food items like dried codfish or German dried vegetable sausage? I think that these would be practical hiking foods which would improve my nutrition on the Trail. I'm already planning on taking some offbeat stuff like dried chopped cuttlefish (squid relative) jerky (most Oriental food stores carry, and Mountain Crossings @ Neels Gap may soon carry as well thanks to me), dried blueberries, dried broccoli top shreds, shredded dried green pea flakes, orange juice powder (NOT Tang!), and spinach powder. I could use a better source of whole-grain blueberry Newtons (like fig Newtons), too. Any stores in the Atlanta area that carry any of these things I've mentioned would be especially handy to know.

Another question: what is the absolute smallest number of mail drops I can get by with? I know I need them at Fontana Dam and Abol Bridge. I'm a little cheap and a lot picky about my food when I can be (if the above didn't already convince you of that). ;)

smokymtnsteve
01-03-2006, 17:20
check out sevenada's in Little Five Points in ATL for the "fig newtons" and other goodies, when living in ATL I purchased most of my hiking food form there, also the DeKalb Farmers market is a good source,,also for the dried fish.


myself also being a lite skinned...beware that before Leaf-out U will be in the sun more than later hikers after leaf out. the cooler temps "trick" U but U will need sunscreen even more than in the summer,,,U can get really bad sunburn in winter, esp with the cooler temps and the less humidity as ur skin will be drier and even easier to burn and chap.

on the southern thrid of the trail ,,Hot Springs is about the only place where U can some food of the sort U are speaking,,

if U want the kind of diet U R speaking of,,u'll need to do mostly mail drops.

minnesotasmith
01-03-2006, 17:47
Seriously, thank you very much for those leads.

No argument from me about watching out for UV during winter. It's a real issue during snow skiing (which I used to do a bunch). I should mention that when hiking in weather much at all above freezing (all the way on up to too hot to hike), I wear a boonie hat with a bandanna tucked under it in back. Wraparound sunglasses and a 2nd bandanna (for wearing in front under nose "desperado-style" are always at hand as well.

One advantage about hiking partially pre-leaves-back season will be the better views, as long as fog/clouds/precipitation all cooperate.

I can deal with sardines, oatmeal, PB & J sandwiches (well, if 100% whole-wheat, lowfat PB, and blackberry jam):o , and so on as I need to. The hike comes first. A TINY grinder (no, I don't have one in mind yet) would make buying dried green peas (routinely available in the dried beans section of all grocery stores) plausible, without needing to max on mail drops. Plus, winter gives the possibilities of taking the occasional package of frozen vegetables on the Trail with me...

Am I really going to need crampons on the Trail in the Smoky Mountains in early-mid March? Surely snowshoes would be overkill as well.

smokymtnsteve
01-03-2006, 18:43
probably not...

minnesotasmith
01-03-2006, 20:48
Then obviously an ice axe is out too. Good. I don't want to lug (or buy) such extra stuff.

Dances with Mice
01-04-2006, 00:13
check out sevenada's in Little Five Points in ATL for the "fig newtons" and other goodies.I just got back from there ... but I'm in L5P each Tuesday where I go to throw things at people. From north of ATL take the downtown Connector south, exit on the Freedom Parkway (GA-10), veer to right after crossing under the non - 'bridge' towards the Carter Center (GA-42), drive past Carter and the road will dead-end into Moreland Avenue. Turn right on Moreland, Sevenada's will be on the left near the second light.

One light further is Euclid Avenue, hang a right there to find the Atlanta Yacht Club. Great beer selection but poor parking options.

Continue downhill on Euclid and when the road bottoms out you'll be at the Community Center. On Tuesdays from 7 - 9 you can find me by walking in and asking where the local Illuminatti chapter meets. But that's a secret - so don't tell anyone.

Skyline
01-04-2006, 01:01
Real crampons and an ice axe are probably overkill. But I would seriously consider some slip-on cleats. They are relatively lightweight and compact, they provide enough stability in the kind of conditions you'll likely encounter. If it gets worse than what these would handle you should probably be off the Trail anyway.

Here are two different slip-ons I've used. Of the two, I'd say the Get-A-Grip is better. YMMV...

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=32174415

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=39159454

Here is a product I haven't used, but that looks like it would be even better (I may try this one)...

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=39161984

minnesotasmith
01-09-2006, 15:17
I'll definitely hit that store ASAP when I get to Atlanta Feb. 10th. Slip-on crampons are something I saw (but did not use) when I was on the North Slope of Alaska a couple of months ago; I'll check out the links.

I still have to figure out a warmer synthetic sleeping bag than my 40-degree Mountain Crossings one; easy enough to find info on at WhiteBlaze's archives.

The mosquito netting (with something to hold it off my body) is another issue, though. It won't be a major issue most of the time early on, but I know I'll need it later.

Say, anyone have a comment on how Chlorine Dioxide (what Aqua-Mira uses) is supposedly useless on Giardia?

minnesotasmith
01-09-2006, 23:46
On REI's site, I found an item that would work, except for being too heavy (17 oz.):

Mombasa Spider Mosquito Net

$35.00 Item 638671
=================================

This makes more sense, at 7 oz.:

Mombasa Defender Mosquito Net
$26.00 Item 728960
=====================================

This is kind of intermediate, at 11. oz. It takes 4 suspension points, though; it thus seems less compatible with shelter sleeping.


Mombasa Outback Travel Net - Single

$12.00 Item 729006

=====================================

Any better products out there? I suspect I may not want to lug one until I mail home my winter gear (Pearsburg, VA, say).

minnesotasmith
01-09-2006, 23:59
Leaving Amicalola NOBO around 2/14 as I am, is there any point to considering any sort of boots at any time before NH? I'll bring (summer) gaiters. I'm just concerned about snow (from Smokies on, mainly) spilling over into my New Balances that have worked so well for me so far (section hiked all but 8 miles of the AT in GA last summer, without a single blister). I've reexamined WeatherCarrot's AT snowfall maps, and don't see how I can even get to Fontana without a fair chance of some snow over 1" at some point.

smokymtnsteve
01-10-2006, 00:13
U were up hern in northern AK and U didnt stop by to see the dogs or come for a sled ride??

plus I know folks in Prudhoe/Deadhorse,,,could have got U a tour.

minnesotasmith
01-10-2006, 00:25
I didn't have a whole lot of choice about where I was when. I was working, after all, with no right to leave location while on the Slope. (I was in the Alpine area on the N. Slope, close enough to Nuiqsit (sp) to see its lights at night.) I only had spare time in Anchorage, with no vehicle of my own. I'd have come seen you if I could have, I swear.:o

So, Smoky, anything you want to add to my 1) footwear, 2) mosquito netting, and 3) Giardia questions? You've been helpful as can be earlier on this thread, so I'd like to hear what you have to say.

smokymtnsteve
01-10-2006, 00:29
as far as Giardia,,any of the chemical tx work

NONE of the chemical TX is effective against cryptosporidium however.

use a .02 micron filter,,I use a sweetwater.


and stop by the cabin next time ur up thisaway

minnesotasmith
01-10-2006, 14:44
At this point, I still need IMO to buy the following:

Ursack

Sleeping bag rated for under 20 degrees

more Aqua-Mira

Frogg Toggs (XL at least)

another set of thigh-reaching synthetic underwear

mosquito netting

specialty food items (spinach powder, lentil flour mixes, blueberry flakes and blueberry Newtons, chopped dried cuttlefish, etc.)
==========================================
Ursack's site won't answer their phone (got answering machine); sent them an E-mail, FWIW. REI doesn't show Aqua-Mira on their website. I decided to take the easy way out on everything but the food; I called Mountain Crossings (wonderful outfitter at Neel Gap), and asked them to see if they can order all the nonfood items for me. I'll let you know how they do. They've done a heck of a job for me in the past, so I'm very optimistic. They're considering carrying the Packa, BTW.

Alligator
01-10-2006, 14:53
...
Frogg Toggs (XL at least)
...
I think you've mentioned that you are a stout fellow, but take a good look at the measurements for Frogg Toggs, they run extremely large. You may need to mix and match.

minnesotasmith
01-10-2006, 15:07
Mountain Crossings will surely let me try them on before buying in any event. They've really done right by me so far (and I've bought over a grand worth of stuff from them).

minnesotasmith
01-11-2006, 07:40
A current supplier of freeze-dried broccoli and spinach is Emergency Essentials at http://beprepared.com (http://beprepared.com/), 800-999-1863. I just called them, and they have those products in stock (16.50 for enough to make 12 cups once reconstituted). They also show stuff like freeze-dried peas, blueberries, etc., on their site, but I did not check availability on those.

minnesotasmith
01-11-2006, 15:22
He said that they have plenty in stock, but that stores will not have any on the shelf until Feb. or March. So, if you want one, you probably will need to mail-order them directly for now.

cls
01-11-2006, 23:34
If New Balance fits you well, they make a several mid to high top models, some with gore tex, that might work for you until the weather warms up.

minnesotasmith
01-12-2006, 08:30
I've hiked all but the last 8 miles of the AT in Georgia wearing New Balance 805s. What model of NB footwear do you favor for AT hiking? (I have two new pair and one halfway-worn pair of NBs intended for my thruhike, and know I will likely need more, so am still in the market.)

One more gear item on my list: an all-synthetic boonie hat. My old (nonsynthetic) BH is a friend, but it needs upgrading; I'm tired of it being wet most of the time when I'm hiking.

minnesotasmith
01-12-2006, 09:30
I know the usual place to switch out winter gear for summer on a NOBO is Pearsburg, VA. I have two questions about that:

1) Presuming I hit Pearsburg in early April, would that be too soon to do the switch?

2) Where up North do NOBOs traditionally switch back to winter-capable (or at least non-summer) gear?

Sly
01-12-2006, 09:37
1) Probably. Waynesboro, VA may be a better choice

2) Glencliff, NH

cls
01-13-2006, 19:44
Sorry Mn. Although New Balance has been my road running shoe for over 20 years (Montrail for off road), I don't wear them for serious hiking. I will be starting out in all-leather gore-tex boots and either carrying or wearing, depending on the weather, OR Croc gaiters. I have done consecutive 20 mi. days in these boots and walked through calf deep or higher snow without foot problems (see report in trip report section). If we do get significant snow during Feb.or March I want to be able to keep going. I'm going to switch to Garmont Eclipse's sometime in April whenever my wife can get enough time off to bring them and my other warm weather gear.
Anyway, I just got a Cabela's catalogue with NB 976 and 851, mid-tops that are waterproof/breathable. Also REI in ATL (and I guess everywhere else) has a sale starting this weekend where you might find some shoes and a hat.

minnesotasmith
01-14-2006, 07:34
One of the outfitters (not REI) in Atlanta I've called about Ursacks has some on hand. On the footwear needing to be other than New Balance trailrunners, I've got several concerns/thoughts here.

1) I wear 12-quadruple E (12EEEE). That size isn't easy to find, especially outside of running shoes/trail runners and is one of the reasons I go with New Balances. If you know of a lightweight nonleather hiking boot that comes in that size, I'd love to hear about it.

2) I wore NBs for sectioning the AT in Georgia last summer, and those worked out fine for me then. I was carrying a pack with starting weight up around 42# at the time. Admittedly, this was summer (May and July), and I was lucky enough not to have all that much rain during my hikes.

3) If I use gaiters, won't that help a LOT with the issue of snow coming up over and into my low-cut NBs?

justusryans
01-14-2006, 09:20
If I use gaiters, won't that help a LOT with the issue of snow coming up over and into my low-cut NBs?

Yup, I would use the high ones though, I'm not sure how good the low ones are for keeping snow and debris out.

Cedar Tree
01-14-2006, 10:13
Frogg Toggs (XL at least)

mosquito netting

They're considering carrying the Packa, BTW.

What?? This is the first I've heard of that. Are you still using your Packa?
I started Feb. 13 on my 2000 Thruhike. Its a great time to be out on the AT.
From what I've read in this thread, you seem prepared. Good Luck.

CT

minnesotasmith
01-14-2006, 10:29
I still rely upon my Packa when hiking, having used it all through my last AT section hike in Georgia. I love it and think that it is an ingenious invention that is very handy for hikers. My perception of the need to also bring rainpants is a) that no "top" that is practical for hiking will totally protect against rain blown by high winds, and b) that I will likely be walking through at least some snow on my thru-hike (I'm hitting Springer about Feb. 14, if not earlier). My legs will get cold and wet if I try sub-40-degree hiking in shorts; I suspect I'm probably accustomed to cold more than most AT hikers, but I'm not THAT adapted.

Thanks for the well-wishes on my upcoming thru-hike. I will happily tell anyone who sees my Packa and asks "What is that neat thing you've got there?" that it is well-worth having, how to reach you, and that you are a "no-BS" zone.:clap

Say, any ideas you have on footwear would be great to hear. Since you did your thru with essentially the same start date as I'm intending, you no doubt have some directly relevant insights on that.

Cedar Tree
01-14-2006, 13:27
I will happily tell anyone who sees my Packa and asks "What is that neat thing you've got there?" that it is well-worth having, how to reach you, and that you are a "no-BS" zone.:clap

Say, any ideas you have on footwear would be great to hear. Since you did your thru with essentially the same start date as I'm intending, you no doubt have some directly relevant insights on that.

Thanks MS for the positive comments on the Packa. As for footwear, I had lots of problems with my feet on my hike, all of which pretty much ended when I finally went to trail running shoes in Harper's Ferry. I hike primarily in winter now and I still use New Balance trail runners year round. I use sealskinz socks when I hike in cold/wet conditions. I live in Marion VA now, so be sure to look me up when you get in the Mt.Rogers area. CT

Turtle2
01-14-2006, 14:44
Have you looked into the New Balance Country Walker M976bw? It is a mid height lightweight leather cross between hiker and shoe. (Womens weigh approx. 1lb 6 oz). Comfortable and water-resistant. If you don't want a mid-height, this also comes in a trail runner. Because of your foot size and your good luck with NB, that might be a good solution for winter. Womens are $104 from NB but KellysRunningWarehouse.com had them for $89. Easy to switch back to trail runners after the Smokies. Hope this helps.

minnesotasmith
01-15-2006, 09:41
Thank you for that information. I will definitely check out those shoes. I believe the other pair of trail shoes I have are Dunhill trail runners. (Winton over at Mountain Crossings in Neel Gap picked them out for me and ordered them; I've tried them on for checking fit, but not worn them otherwise.)

Cedar Tree, what are seakskin socks? I'm not familiar with them. Also, if I'm to look you up when I hike into your area, I'll need contact info. (Please PM me.)

Cedar Tree
01-15-2006, 10:38
Cedar Tree, what are seakskin socks? I'm not familiar with them. Also, if I'm to look you up when I hike into your area, I'll need contact info. (Please PM me.)

Sealskinz are waterproof socks. I bought mine off ebay for around $15 + shipping as I remember, I've had them a couple years. They will make your feet sweat, even in the coldest conditions. It has to be very cold and wet/rainy for me to wear them, but I always carry them in the winter.
Phone number is on my Packa website, if you lose it before you reach VA.
www.thepacka.com 276 780 2354

CT

mweinstone
01-16-2006, 00:15
your start date dosnt match your gear and they are in conflict with your exspectations. solution?.....rethink,throw out the old,..and refit.start with a bag rated lower than you need ,skip the liner,use only new clothes with their loft intact.exspect to be cold and prepare for it.dont assume you are hardened yet.you will be soon enough and thats the time to go spartin if you wish. but at your start speeds weight is not as much a concern.remember sleeping nude is the most efficient use of any bag.room for dead air space is more vital than the liner and long underwares added bulk and restriction. the first time you sleep in a bag thats extra long and wide and fluffy youll know the perils of crampt cold imobility.and dont back things up. bad habit formed by lack of faith. buy a bomproof kit that dosnt need backing up and feel free of the heavy load.the appalachian trail comes into so much contact with towns that breaking a headlamp is nothing more than a healthy learning exspirence until you reach a town to replace it youll be cooler than your regular two headed self and youll be free of the over packers syndrome .matthewski speaks.

minnesotasmith
01-16-2006, 07:42
I've already decided to get a lower-rated, synthetic (nondown) sleeping bag (in 0-15 degrees F. range; my current one is a 40-degree synthetic). Is it my footwear or my tent that you don't think is appropriate? Remember that I use the Trailside shelters heavily; the time of year I'm leaving, surely there won't be much trouble getting room in them. My tent is purely a backup to the shelters.

smokymtnsteve
01-16-2006, 19:20
drop the tent ...take a tarp since ur planning to mainly shelter hop anyway....

minnesotasmith
01-17-2006, 08:59
My tent is a Henry Shires tarptent. It weighs only a little over a pound.

minnesotasmith
01-18-2006, 09:45
Trying to see if leaving 2/11 will work, in part so my (employed) sister and school-age nieces can see me off. I've been following the weather for weeks in Dahlonega, Fontana Dam, and Hot Springs, and it really doesn't look that bad. Hike in shorts with few to no bugs during the day, and huddle in my sleeping bag in a Trail shelter with long stuff on at night; I can handle that. If my last-minute gear orders were in hand, I think I'd go sooner than the 11th.

I've got an Ursack (55.00) and mosquito net (one-attachment-point Mombasa Defender via REI; 7 oz., 26.00, if memory serves) on the way, along with a bunch of freeze-dried spinach and broccoli. I found a couple of dollar stores with some GREAT bean-and rice casserole or chili mixes. And, I went through and stripped-down the couple of cases of MREs I had down to something useful to a hiker for inclusion in mail drops. If you take only the entree in its innermost package, heating it in hot water instead of using the included heating unit, along with the keen little packets of peanut butter/jelly/cheese spread, you've got what IMO is some useful and tasty hiker food...

minnesotasmith
01-19-2006, 09:08
Where online can I find a list (with names, mailing addresses, and phone numbers) of non-Post Office places to which I could potentially send maildrops? I think I know where along the Trail I want to send them (only about 8 total), but don't know who to send them to.

Yes, I know about not sending mail drops too far ahead of time, and not sealing them in advance. I have a family member that is going to mail out any that I need post-Fontana. I'm going to personally drop off the one I'll pick up at Neel Gap, when I go pick up the last of my gear that I've ordered for there.

How practical is it, BTW, to try to make it from the further east of the two road crossings leading to Hiawassee all the way to Fontana (where I'll have a 6 - 7 day mail drop sent), buying en route only from what places are within a quarter mile of the Trail between those two end points?

hopefulhiker
01-19-2006, 13:11
1)I started out with Sundowners switched to Montrails in Damascus when my ankles were stronger. I switched to using gaitors later for scratches,poison ivey,snakes and so forth.
2)As far as leaving camp, I found that the earlier the better usually about 7:00 to 8:00
3)I used Aquamira most of the time.. In NY and NJ I had a filter shipped in because of drought.. But looking back on it I could have just used the Aquamira and drank the muddy,froggy water..
4)Try a platypus, lighter than a bottle. They sell it but not everywhere, consider having it mail dropped to some locations.
5)I used the Henry Shire's Tarp Tent. It was great...I only took two little tiny pushbutton lights, That was sufficient.. I didn't night hike though.. Consider the hiking poles..I really appreciated them on the tougher sections.
6)Bugs won't be a problem till summer. I found that they were not a problem at the end of my NoBo trip either. Get the little spray bottle 100% Deet at Walmart..
7) Beware the bear boxes! Bears are kept out but mice come and go freely!
8) If you sleep in the tarp tent it provides a bug proof solution..

minnesotasmith
01-19-2006, 18:22
1)I started out with Sundowners switched to Montrails in Damascus when my ankles were stronger. I switched to using gaitors later for scratches,poison ivey,snakes and so forth.
2)As far as leaving camp, I found that the earlier the better usually about 7:00 to 8:00
3)I used Aquamira most of the time.. In NY and NJ I had a filter shipped in because of drought.. But looking back on it I could have just used the Aquamira and drank the muddy,froggy water..
4)Try a platypus, lighter than a bottle. They sell it but not everywhere, consider having it mail dropped to some locations.
5)I used the Henry Shire's Tarp Tent. It was great...I only took two little tiny pushbutton lights, That was sufficient.. I didn't night hike though.. Consider the hiking poles..I really appreciated them on the tougher sections.
6)Bugs won't be a problem till summer. I found that they were not a problem at the end of my NoBo trip either. Get the little spray bottle 100% Deet at Walmart..
7) Beware the bear boxes! Bears are kept out but mice come and go freely!
8) If you sleep in the tarp tent it provides a bug proof solution..


1) Yeah, my gaitors have their uses. I figure that will go double for snow more than an inch or so deep. Plus, I noticed on my second Georgia section hike last summer that starting about a day and a half north of Neel Gap, there were some major overgrown sections where the choices were A) ripped-up legs, or B) long pants or gaitors. Is this overgrowth situation currently an issue in North C. south of the Smokies?

2) Sigh. I just don't get out of camp quickly; I'm almost always the last one to leave the shelter each day, and I don't even cook in the mornings on normal-distance days. I guess it's wanting to organize when I can see AND I'm not as bushed as I am in the evenings.

4) I have a Platypus, but don't consider it very well-suited for hauling water a long distance when I'm still carrying my pack and staff, as my hands aren't free to carry it. I use it just for hauling water between shelter water sources and the near shelter.

5) Am taking two LED headlamps. I use a (fairly thick) hiking staff. Lekis IMO are just too wimpy against dogs, too liable to bend or break, cost too &#$ing much (esp. compared with a staff), and don't instantly adjust height on changing Trail slopes the way any staff does.

8) I like to sleep in shelters as a rule, due to not having to take the time to set up and break down a tent, avoiding my tent getting wet (and heavier/dirty) when it rains, plus the social aspect of shelters.

So, anyone have anything to share about my previous two questions?

A) Where online can I find a list (with names, mailing addresses, and phone numbers) of non-Post Office places to which I could potentially send maildrops?

B) How practical is it, BTW, to try to make it from the further east of the two road crossings leading to Hiawassee all the way to Fontana (where I'll have a 6 - 7 day mail drop sent), buying en route only from what places are within a quarter mile of the Trail between those two end points?

Jack Tarlin
01-19-2006, 18:34
Try www.aldha.org which has an On-Line version of the 2005 Thru-Hiker's Companion. It'll contain most, if not all of the addresses you're looking for.

Jack Tarlin
01-19-2006, 18:48
I'm not sure which road you mean, but maybe this will help you:

It's 27.6 miles from US19/74 (the Nantahala Outdoor Center) to the Fontana Dam Road that most people hitch to Fontana Village from. (In the books, this road is called NC28)

Though it might look like you can do this stretch in two days, and maybe even one very long one, be advised that many folks get a late start out of the NOC after overnighting there, and then have a looooooong climb ahead of them. Many, many folks do a short day outta the NOC and stop for the night at the first shelter, Sassafrass Gap, or if it's nice out, they'll continue up to the top of Cheoah Bald, which is a great place to camp.

If you stay at either of these places, you'd have a pretty solid 20 miler the next day if you wanna get all the way to the Fontana Village road, and may well arrive in Fontana Village too late to shop.

For these reasons, even tho it's not even 30 miles, I suggest that you bring 2-3 days worth of supplies out of the N.O.C. (or 3 days worth less one dinner as you'll probably eat dinner in the Village the 3rd night).

In plain English: Unless you KNOW you're gonna leave the NOC early and put in a long first day, I'd bring 3 days worth of supplies from there, minus one dinner

Hope this helps.

wyclif
01-19-2006, 21:43
Try www.aldha.org (http://www.aldha.org) which has an On-Line version of the 2005 Thru-Hiker's Companion. It'll contain most, if not all of the addresses you're looking for.

Jack,

I clicked around and looked all over the ALDHA site and couldn't locate last year's version of the Companion that you mentioned.

Any hints?

smokymtnsteve
01-19-2006, 21:49
Jack,

I clicked around and looked all over the ALDHA site and couldn't locate last year's version of the Companion that you mentioned.

Any hints?


http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm

Jack Tarlin
01-19-2006, 21:54
1. Go to main page at www.aldha.org
2. You'll see a section called "Thru-Hiker's Companion." Click on it.
3. You'll see a section called "On-Line Companion" Click on it.
4. That should do it.

Or just try: www.aldha.org/comp_htm and see if that works.

wyclif
01-19-2006, 21:57
1. Go to main page at www.aldha.org (http://www.aldha.org)
2. You'll see a section called "Thru-Hiker's Companion." Click on it.
3. You'll see a section called "On-Line Companion" Click on it.
4. That should do it.

Or just try: www.aldha.org/comp_htm (http://www.aldha.org/comp_htm) and see if that works.

Duh! :confused: I didn't notice the little white blaze icons were clickable. I was looking at the underlined links.

Thanks, very helpful!

minnesotasmith
01-20-2006, 09:49
I don't figure I'll be reliably doing over 10 miles a day until sometime past the Smokies. I'll start out from Amicalola trying to go from shelter to shelter, only around 7 miles or so a day to start (camping once for sure around Jarrad Gap due to no shelter conveniently placed along the way, as I found out on my first GA section hike), with those 7 daily miles on the painful side for a while. Given all that, do you think that post-Smokies is about right for when I can figure on my average daily mileage finally noticeably having picked up multiple miles a day? I'm doing just under 2 hour walks of about 4 miles 2 out of 3 days right now, with no pack (was stressing my knees), with about 3 weeks to go before I stand in front of the Arch at Amicalola for my sister to take a "before" picture of me.

BTW, I tried to see if someone in the P.E. (whatever they call it now) Dept. at a local college would want to use me as the subject of a minor publication in exchange for some "before" and "after" monitoring. It looks like no one there wants to use me for an article, but I did swing an agreement to get a bunch of physical fitness characteristics tested before and after for free. An idea for other aspiring thrus, I hope.

minnesotasmith
01-20-2006, 10:14
What section of grocery stores has dehydrated refried beans? What brand makes them? What stores (especially in NW Florida, Alabama along I-65/85, or Atlanta-area GA) carry it? I've found some bean-and-rice cooking mixes, but IMO would REALLY like to find some of those beans. Will help me get plenty of space in shelters, too! ;)

Jack Tarlin
01-20-2006, 14:11
1. You'll be doing some bigger mileage days before the Smokies.....for example, from Standing Indian Mt. to Winding Stair Gap is pretty easy, for one. Things will certainly pick up after the Smokies; Davenpot Gap to Hot Springs is quite gentle with a few bumps, and there's some easy hiking stretches between Hot Springs and Erwin. And the last 40 miles before Damascus is a snap, in fact it's essentially flat in a lot of places. So yes, your expected mileage will be achieved quite early in your trip.

2. Someone else will have to tell you about the beans.

Alligator
01-20-2006, 14:22
What section of grocery stores has dehydrated refried beans? What brand makes them? What stores (especially in NW Florida, Alabama along I-65/85, or Atlanta-area GA) carry it? I've found some bean-and-rice cooking mixes, but IMO would REALLY like to find some of those beans. Will help me get plenty of space in shelters, too! ;)
Near the taco shells is the only place I've found them, in Kroger's. If they have some ethnic sections, try the Mexican shelves. The canned ones are a cheap product though, which is why I think my local stores no longer carry the product.

minnesotasmith
01-20-2006, 23:40
1. You'll be doing some bigger mileage days before the Smokies.....for example, from Standing Indian Mt. to Winding Stair Gap is pretty easy, for one. Things will certainly pick up after the Smokies; Davenpot Gap to Hot Springs is quite gentle with a few bumps, and there's some easy hiking stretches between Hot Springs and Erwin. And the last 40 miles before Damascus is a snap, in fact it's essentially flat in a lot of places. So yes, your expected mileage will be achieved quite early in your trip.

Standing Indian Mt. to Winding Stair Gap

Where is that span on this map of the AT?

http://www.monmouth.com/~johno/A%20Large%20Detailed%20Map%20of%20the%20Appalachia n%20Trail.htm

Dances with Mice
01-20-2006, 23:51
[I]Standing Indian Mt. to Winding Stair Gap Where is that span on this map of the AT? [/URL]Review the GA-NC border. See how the AT leaves GA then doubles back? Standing Indian Mtn. is marked. Winding Stair Gap is the US 64 / AT intersection.

minnesotasmith
01-21-2006, 00:11
Two more Trail-in-NC geography questions, if I may:

1) Where along there is this NOC I keep hearing about?

And...

2) Is the town of Wesser anything worth mentioning (e.g., partial resupply), or is it just a crossroads where a burned-down house sits next to a rotting old barn?

minnesotasmith
01-21-2006, 11:46
What is the near-Trail availability of TP and stove fuel in North Carolina south of the Smokies? I'd like to try to extend my time between hitting a (non-Trailside) town after Hiawassee to Fontana if I can, with my only resupply in Hiawassee a mail drop at the Blueberry Patch. Unfortunately, stove fuel (I use a topnotch homemade stove a most clever engineer friend of mine made) is NOT something I can legally mail. I figure I'll either mail a supply box to the Patch, packing extra fuel (like 2 weeks worth) from a pre-hike dropped-off supply box @ Neel Gap that contains fuel, or also drive up to the Patch pre-hike and drop off a supply box that contains stove fuel.

I should say that I intend to cook more than I did on my section hikes through Georgia last summer.

First, I want to try to rehydrate better; I can get hot green tea or hot sugarfree cocoa down the hatch a little more easily than I can get myself to drink "just that little bit more" of ambient-temperature Chlorine-dioxide aftertaste water.

Second, I have a few entrees from MREs that I intend to take along or put in my mail drops (the entrees, NOT all the other bulky, weighty cr*p that come in MREs; the accessory and cracker packs are particularly bulky) that are edible as is, but benefit from being warmed, i.e., in hot water.

Third, I perceive that dried mixes are a particularly efficient way to transport calories and nutrition in inexpensive, dense (nonbulky), lightweight relative to their value (BC very low water %). After the first couple of months on the Trail, I expect to have run through all my mail drops, except for a couple for Glencliff, NH (just pre-Whites, when I presumably have to pick back up by mail some of my winter gear anyway) and in Maine just pre-Hundred Miles.

Comments, please?

minnesotasmith
01-21-2006, 12:00
From another thread, I see that it is at the Wesser road crossing. How nasty actually are the hills between the NOC and Fontana, and the first day out after Fontana? Please compare them with Sassafras Mountain and Kelly Knob, both of which I remember as being moderate pains at worst, not as bad as billed.

BTW, alda/org appears to have taken down that list of potential maildrop addressees. Or, am I just not seeing where to click on their site to get to it?

Jack Tarlin
01-21-2006, 12:33
Smith:

Query:

Do you have a current map set? Reason I'm asking is that if you don't, you should; also, the elevation profiles on all of the maps will give you an excellent idea of what each day's terrain will be like, and this can be very useful with your planning. Just about ALL of the (non-food) questions you've asked recently could be answered by studying the maps.

Re. your last question: You've got a monster climb out of the NOC; it's not steep, except towards the very end; it's just very long, like seven or eight miles where you're essentially going uphill all day. The rest of the section is not bad at all, and the last few miles, down to Fontana, are a breeze.

The Companion info is still available On-Line; to find it, see Post #74 above.

I also strongly suggest you purchase a 2006 Companion or Handbook as you'll want one or the other DURING your hike, as well as to use before you leave.

minnesotasmith
01-21-2006, 12:42
I have detailed maps (official ATC and otherwise) from Amicalola through the north end of the Smokies, having used them all through GA on my section hikes last summer. Unfortunately, they are in one of the hiking-gear storage containers in my storage unit near Atlanta, that I won't have access to until less than a week before my thru-hike attempt. (I'm currently visiting family in NW FL, doing yard work and such, in between training walks, packing about 10 maildrop boxes, and doing last gear purchases via Internet/reserving to be at Atlanta-area outfitters when I head up that way shortly pre-hike). I have ordered a Companion, and will have it shortly before I hit the Trail. My understanding is that it is really all I really need to have WRT maps/reference info (for figuring out water sources, shelter distance, elevation profiles, and resupply points). Do you agree?

Also, I'm going to have a large-version of the classic strip map at http://www.monmouth.com/~johno/A%20Large%20Detailed%20Map%20of%20the%20Appalachia n%20Trail.htm printed out in color for my family to track me along the way.

Jack Tarlin
01-21-2006, 13:16
I 'm afraid I don't understand the language/meaning of your last sentence, but I'll try and answer anyway:

Most hikers in the past have carried The Handbook or The Companion, along with the A.T. Data Book.

In recent years, Data Book usage has dropped dramatically as that information (mileage, shelters, road crossing info, water sources, etc.) is now found in the Handbook.

The 2006 Companion will also have this information, which means Data Book usage will decline even further.

I predict most of this year's hikers will carry on or the other of these books, and that's about it.

Howver, I think ALL hikers should also carry the maps, as I think it's a really lousy idea to be in the woods or mountains without one. (This has been discussed extensively elsewhere on Whiteblaze). While it is certainly possible to thru-hike without the maps, I think this is a reckless and foolish thing to do. But that's just my opinion.

For your trip, Smith, I think you should carry one of the two main Trail guidebooks, along with current maps for each section. But like so many other things, this is up to you.

minnesotasmith
01-21-2006, 14:33
Carrying the Companion and the associated maps sounds about right, for a compromise between safety and knowing where the **** I am on one hand, and keeping some discipline on my packload on the other.

BTW, the longrange weather forecast is showing a BIG change in the weather right around Feb. 1. (www.accuweather.com (http://www.accuweather.com) goes out 15 days.) Dahlonega (town near Amicalola) is showing about 41/22 F. for highs/lows starting around then. Looks like I'll need some of my winter gear right off the bat...

minnesotasmith
01-22-2006, 00:47
It's pretty well-made, lightweight and sturdy, but not as big as this chow-hound would have liked. www.ursack.com (http://www.ursack.com) used to make a bigger one, called an Ursack Major, or some such (after the constellation). Wish I had one of those.

I also received A) a hiker-sized AM/FM/weather radio that is both AA (NOT AAA) battery-powered and powered by a crank the way the Baygen is, and B) a combo LED/cellphone charger that is crank-powered. Right now, I figure the first one will go with me from Amicalola, while the second one will not, as I probably won't haul my cellphone. My mother and elderly aunt want me to take my cellphone, even though I've assured them cellphones don't work along most of the AT. A counter attendant at the local service center for my cellphone service provider swore yesterday in a conversation with me that her cell phone works (and reliably) in a cabin in the Smokies that she goes to once a year, even though the cellphone company shows the Smokies (like almost all the AT south of the Shenandoah Valley) as not having their service work there.

No input on ease of stove fuel resupply in southern North Carolina, anyone?

smokymtnsteve
01-22-2006, 00:49
why do ya think ya need a ursack on the AT???

smokymtnsteve
01-22-2006, 00:54
i have used a cell phone in the smokies....up on the ridge where the AT is U have good line of sight with Gburg and cherokee, where thar are cell towers, so lots of the smokies ridge has cell phone signal.

minnesotasmith
01-22-2006, 02:51
why do ya think ya need a ursack on the AT???

1) Remember Bluebeary, who lost her bear-cabled foodbag HER VERY FIRST night on the AT (at Springer), going NOBO, just as I will be?

2) I have already had a personal bear encounter on the AT (1/2 mile south of Hawk Mountain), and have had hikers I met on the Trail tell me of bear encounters.

3) I had a &%$#ing flying squirrel get into my properly bear-cabled food bag and chew on 5 different items when I spent a night at the first Trail-side shelter north of Neel Gap (not the one >1.5 miles off the Trail near Tesnatee (sp), the next one, the one with a 3' wide stream flowing 20' from the shelter).

4) I carry food that has much that is A) unusual (so is hard to replace at Mom and Pop 100-item convenience stores), and B) contains lots of fish and shellfish, nicely aromatic WRT attracting ursas.

5) The second-to-last shelter on the AT in GA had bear encounters described in close to HALF the shelter entries when I slept there alone one night last July. I built a fire (which I don't normally bother with), and still slept a mite less soundly than usual...

6) Why not? It doesn't weigh that much, and the peace of mind is nice. I don't even have to bear cable my Ursack, just tie it to a tree.

BTW, I still haven't figured out where on the alda site is the list of maildrop addresses.

wyclif
01-22-2006, 09:37
I carry food that has much that is A) unusual (so is hard to replace at Mom and Pop 100-item convenience stores), and B) contains lots of fish and shellfish, nicely aromatic WRT attracting ursas.

I'm just a tad surprised that somebody would pack seafood on the AT, to say the least.

How do you intent to preserve that if the weather should be warmer than usual?

IMNSHO, I would NOT want to be at a shelter or near a site where raw fish was hung.

troglobil
01-22-2006, 10:42
go here: http://www.aldha.org/comp_pdf.htm

troglobil
01-22-2006, 10:42
and you will find POs in the text

minnesotasmith
01-22-2006, 10:51
I'm just a tad surprised that somebody would pack seafood on the AT, to say the least.

How do you intent to preserve that if the weather should be warmer than usual?

IMNSHO, I would NOT want to be at a shelter or near a site where raw fish was hung.

None of my food that I carry on the Trail in the way of meat is at all raw (unless you count commercially-made beef jerky), and all of it keeps long-term in any weather. Seafood-wise, I mainly carry foil packs of salmon, packs of dried chopped cuttlefish (jerky made from relative of squid; easy to find at Oriental food stores, and it is essentially fat-free), and the occasional (like 1 - 2 per mail drop box) small can of sardines, smoked oysters/clams/mussels, Goya brand canned seasoned octopus in olive oil, or Bajamar brand canned octopus in garlic sauce. There are a lot of minerals as well as protein in these dense foods.

minnesotasmith
01-22-2006, 12:34
I'll check it out.

minnesotasmith
01-23-2006, 00:22
I went to an Office Depot/Office Max and had the first half-dozen or so of Weathercarrot's deservedly famous AT snowfall maps printed out, enough to get me past Damascus. I'll haul a couple of these along at a time on my thru-hike (picking up later ones in my maildrops). These will have the primary purpose of helping me judge where I want to be if a major weather system is going to move in soon (before winter fades out). Secondarily, they will likely be great conversation pieces in the shelters. ;)

minnesotasmith
01-24-2006, 11:42
I went to the famous large AT map site, http://www.monmouth.com/~johno/A%20Large%20Detailed%20Map%20of%20the%20Appalachia n%20Trail.htm . I had a copy place print out enlarged color copies, using (11) 11"x17" sheets). Then, I put them in order on posters, 2 per poster. This way, they will be able to easily write down notes of where I am that will make sense to them when I call them from resupply towns. They were happy to have this thing made up for them; anything reasonable that makes the home front more comfortable with me thruhiking has its points IMO. I figure this is less bother than lugging a cellphone along on my thruhike (with charger, manual, etc., etc.), as they would prefer me to do, and I emphatically do NOT want to do. Cell phones mostly don't work along most of the AT, anyway, correct?

Jack Tarlin
01-24-2006, 14:26
This map is also available from the ATC; most hikers get one (or several) for their friends or family members, who find it great fun to follow the hiker's progress, usually with push pins or other markers. This is a VERY nice thing to do for family members, especially older ones who might have reservations about your trip. As you make progress, they get very excited to see how you're doing, and in the process, become very positive and enthusiastic about your hike, instead of just worried.

minnesotasmith
01-24-2006, 14:32
I bought it at the Amicalola Falls State Park ranger station's store over 18 months ago. The problem with that version is that it is very small relative to the detail it shows, inconvenient for my parents whose eyesight is not what it used to be. The way I did a version for them (6 posters totaling over ten feet long), they have room in the margins to write notes of where I am when I call them from Trail towns.

Agreed that this sort of thing raises the knowledge and enthusiasm level of nonhiking family members.

mweinstone
01-25-2006, 00:38
im intrested in your approtch to this hike.your a colorful caricterhere on white blaze. you speak your mind and you have too many questions .i like that.you are stuborn but you can learn too.i imagine that if you make the big k youll be a guy who changes the most personality wise. right now your you. and we all like you. but your so you that the future you is having a hard time finding space .do you collect alot. are you a major packrat? if you are now this might change after you hike. id really like to meet you and walk with you for a day in the start and one at the end of your hike. the best of luck to you sir and i like what youve done for the parents.nice very nice.spirits like yours more often than not end up on katadin.matthewski speaks.

minnesotasmith
01-26-2006, 00:19
Thanks for the interest in my hike, and the well-wishes.

Those posters are really nice-looking. They took me easily an hour at that office store to have all printed out, including the 8 snowfall maps. I figure that they are an easy way for my parents to grasp what my situation is WRT how far along I am, and what's ahead. In addition to circling the highest point in each state along the AT worth mentioning (I skipped MD and WV), I will also put (at the border between each major state) the miles the AT runs in that state, the cumulative miles done at that point, and the # of miles to go. I figured that since I'm asking my mother to close up and mail at least 7 maildrops for me (that I will have prepared as much as I can pre-hike), it's the least I can do.


Am I a packrat? With respect to books, tools, and hiking-related stuff, yes. As far as broken appliances/machinery, trash, old magazines/newspapers, any kind of collectible, no.

Hiking with me? No problem, unless you put past thruhikers Gasman and Tailwind to shame, while sharing their idea of fun. :eek: ;)

Yeah, I'm also sure I'll change some on my thruhike, aside from the >50 pounds I hope and expect to lose. I have long been one of those determined sorts; I have fished without success all day in the rain, or fished the whole time I was allowed to on an all-day-trip deep-sea party boat when I had seasickness that kept me barfing. I figure I have a scientist's intellectual humility about being able to accept error when I receive new information, such that if I have to change how I am hiking due to straining my body, a big storm coming, hypothermia onset, etc., I can do it with a minimum of emotional wrenching.
===============================================

Several things I have figured in the last couple of days...

1) I try to buy only peanut butter that has no added salt or oil. Unfortunately, the two brands of it I know about both come in heavy, potentially breakable glass jars. I would worry about simply scooping peanut butter from the original glass jars into generic plastic containers, as those containers may be made of plastic that can leach contaminants into the peanut butter. The solution? Several people are giving me emptied clean plastic containers that cheapo PB (originally with added oil) came in from the grocery store to put my peanut butter into. Those plastic jars won't break under any circumstances I see as likely, are light-weight, and surely are safe against MY PB leaching petroleum derivatives out of them.

2) I intend to put a jar of wheat germ (which I eat regularly) in each of my large maildrops. I don't care for the taste of the WG that comes in plastic bags. Unfortunately, glass is again heavy and breakable on the Trail. Likewise, WG goes rancid fairly quickly once exposed to air and not refrigerated, so IMO moving jars of WG that I am putting into maildrops made up prehike is not a good response, either. The solution?

In each mail drop, leave the WG in its original jar, and seriously pad it for the trip. Also, enclose either or both of a large ziploc bag or an expendable thin plastic container in the mail drop (if I'm not going to have a spare along) that I can pour the WG into as soon as I open the mail drop at BFE, whereever.

3) Another idea for getting some regular food at the remoter/pricier maildrop locations: include several regular cans of food that I will eat pretty much right away then, certainly before getting back on the Trail or walking very far. This strikes me as a good way to get some extra vegetables as well. I am putting (metal) canned tomatos, canned peas, canned asparagus, canned beans that I like, the occasional can of ravioli, etc., into such maildrops for a cheap, nutritious, no-cook big meal.

4) There is a brand of mousetrap out there now that is intended to be reused and does not entail touching the mouse (or where it died) in any way. It is kind of like a big tan wide plastic chothespin, and as easy to use. I guess that the bait will be usable multiple times. I bought a pair of these to see if they will give me some peace at night in the shelters more popular with microvarmints. :clap

5) I thought about it, and figured out that, all else being equal (thickness and/or fabric density), Red or Black bandannas should allow the least amount of ultraviolet to penetrate to the skin, while Blue/Violet (or White, probably) ones will likely allow the most to get through. Anyone who wants to argue as to why, I can do that.;)

smokymtnsteve
01-26-2006, 00:46
it would be really hard to keep a bandana white out on the trail....it would soon be a yellowish brown color

minnesotasmith
01-26-2006, 07:49
it would be really hard to keep a bandana white out on the trail....it would soon be a yellowish brown color

Reminds me of the old Polish joke about how a Polack tells how to put his underwear on; yellow side in front, and brown in back.:-? :o :rolleyes: (I've got some Polish ancestry, so I can get away with that one IMO). It was a matter of applying a bit of what I remember from college physics classes to come up with that bandanna color-choice idea. BTW, here are two more Trail prep ideas I had:

6) Military bases, especially large ones that are devoted to groundpounders (Army/USMC infantry-heavy locations topping the list IMO) will have some larger-size footwear-related items, and some of what they carry will be (from our POV) unusual hard-to-find hiking/camping gear. Don't look there for the largest waist-size clothing, though; the military doesn't allow entrance by, or retention of, seriously heavy people, so the mil's stores mostly don't stock clothing sized for them.

7) I don't know if they are still available, but I heard about a sale of large, apparently lightweight & well-made Maxam backpacks for under TWENTY bucks each on Ebay a couple of days ago. Here is the link:

http://www.ebuysource.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=897#

http://www.ebuysource.com/Prodimages/LMBP_175px_72dpi.jpg

More Maxam packs: http://www.merchantmonkey.com/shoppingcart/html/Backpacks.html

minnesotasmith
01-26-2006, 20:19
Your message box is full.

Dances with Mice
01-26-2006, 20:30
Your message box is full.Ready go.

Belgarion
01-27-2006, 09:54
As far as the shelter space. When I started in 99 it was the beginning of March. The shelters were pretty much empty, even on the weekends. Occasionally you'd have three or four people with you, but there was plenty of room for everyone. It wasn't til late April that I started to run into difficulties with room in the shelter. There were a few nights though that absolutely no one was at a shelter with me, but that was more towards the middle of the week.
As far as water, you will have some trouble during Feb and Mar with small streams, but generally there's no problem getting supplied due to it being the rainy season. Most of March and April was under heavy clouds and rain about 2/3rds of the time. Personally, I carry a 2 liter hydro bag and a 16 oz sports cup with gradients on the side and a sturdy cap that I got at the great Wall of Mart for 3 bucks. For purification I only bring PA/PA Plus tabs. I have hiked extensively using these tabs. The Plus tab takes away the iodine taste and it's lightweight and economical. In all the years I have hiked the backcountry I have never gotten sick drinking the water even without purification. I'm not advising to do this, it's just my personal experience. Besides, truthfully, all you really have to do is boil your water for a minute or two if it's real suspect. Then put it in your nagalene about three quarters full and shake it up a little bit to get oxygen back into it.
Boots are your own preference. remember Granny only hiked in keds. Again, being a frugal backpacker, I go to Payless and buy their 20 dollar midweight hikers. One pair I bought from them not only lasted the whole thru-hike, but I even wore them for six months afterward before they finally fell apart. Generally though, you need one pair to get until you get through Pennsylvania, then get another pair because they will probably be pretty well torn up by then.Well I hope to be at Ami for my thru-hike around the 8th or 9th of Feb. Maybe I'll see you there.
Belgarion

minnesotasmith
01-28-2006, 16:29
1) I decided that knowing exactly how much food I would want for resupplying would be harder to accurately predict right now for locations far enough along the Trail for me to have gotten in considerably better shape. The solution as I saw it was to use maildrops for resupply only every other resupply point at the most frequent much past the Smokies, since every trail journal I read says how they really started to get in good shape by then. That way, I can simply buy a greater or smaller volume of chow at the near-Trail grocery stores, adjusting as I go along to my changing daily mileage per day.

2) Right now, I am figuring on carrying 5 days food out of Amicalola, pre-hike dropping off 6 days food at Mountain Crossings in Neel Gap for pickup there, and pre-hike dropping off 8-9 days food at the Blueberry Patch hostel (along with appropriate amounts of toilet paper, paper towels, dispo towlettes, stove fuel of the type I use, etc.). I want to try to make it all the way to the NOC/Wesser from the second Hiawassee road crossing (where I'll hitch a ride to the BP Hostel south of Hiawassee for the first and only time this hike) without resupplying (e.g., going into Franklin). I'll have 3 days food sent to the NOC, 8+ days of food sent to Fontana, 3 days in a drop sent to Mountain Momma's in Davenport Gap, and 7 days worth sent to Hot Springs so I can make it to Erwin.

No drop intended for Erwin or Laurel Fork/Kincora due to reasonable-sounding grocery store nearby.

3) I am having trouble figuring out very many really good locations for sending mail drops after Hot Springs. I want them to be non-Post Office, so that they will be open 7 days a week, and likely open somewhat into the evening. I don't want them to be motels/B. & Bs. that only do this for guests, since I intend to avoid using any lodging more expensive than $15.00 hostels (I'd rather spend my money on food, gear, food, or food). I don't want to send much if anything in the way of maildrops to towns that have a Krogers or a Wal-Mart. For example, I need a location to send one to TroutDALE/Dickey Gap, VA (VA 650/616, 64 miles N. of Damascus).

I intend to send one large maildrop each to the ATC in Harper's Ferry, and to Glencliff, NH and Monson, ME, even if I have to use the Post Office for those last two, given how critical those locations are. (I'll likely pick back up my winter gear at Glencliff as SOP before entering the White Mtns.)

I should add that I printed off a copy of the online 2005 Companion, and am using that, along with the two invaluble and wonderful resupply articles on WB in the Articles section.

4) How much of the Trail do cell phones really work along? I need this answer for my family, who keeps trying to convince me to bring one -- help, please. :rolleyes:

5) I intend to only resupply with expensive medicines, credit/debit cards, etc., by being handed them somewhere north of Pearsburg by a family member making what will probably be the one and only off-Trail meeting I arrange for during my entire hike. The way IMO to do such a meeting is for me to talk to them by phone on a town resupply trip 4-6 (no more or less, ideally) days before we would meet (they would drive up from the Deep South to come see me). It's a good way to one-time trade out gear and do what amounts to a mail drop of unlimited size, too, IMO.:D

6) I am aware that frailer shoes than my New Balances/Dunhams have made the whole hike (if being replaced on the way multiple times). I am still worried a bit about snow/deep mud/rocks, but will give it a try, intending to obtain the lower footwear weight and fewer blisters that I expect with lightweight shoes.

minnesotasmith
01-28-2006, 16:43
7) I'm going to carry 2 pair (2 sets) of Aqua Mira out of Amicalola, preposition 1 more set at either Neel Gap or the Blueberry Patch Hostel, and have that family member bring me at least 2 more sets (that I buy pre-hike and leave with them) when they meet me somewhere north of Pearsburg, VA. Each set does 30 gallons of water. Given that I don't plan to chemically treat water that I boil, only filtering it pre-boiling with a coffee filter and food-grade plastic funnel, is this a reasonable quantity to budget? I understand that Aqua Mira is hard to find, especially north of Hot Springs; hence my plan.

minnesotasmith
01-28-2006, 17:28
1) The longest-range weather website of which I am aware is www.accuweather.com (http://www.accuweather.com). They go out 15 days. I'm using Suches, GA to predict Trail conditions, since it's more up in the mountains than is Dahlonega, Hiawassee, etc., IMO.

2) A good place to check how wet the ground is is the Palmer Drought Index. A map of it covering the lower 48 states is updated weekly at http://www.weatherimages.org/data/imag273.html . Note how N. GA is kind of damp right now, but not as wet as it could be...

mweinstone
01-29-2006, 22:25
while working for the youth conservation corpes i was part of a study on mice on the battlefield at gettysburg.we learned that trapping mice does not decreese the mouse population in these areas. the problem is like trying to fish the seas clean of fish.trapped mice remained constant all that summer and the number of trapps diddnt matter.the more traps used the more caught.we sprayed and we baited and we group traped andwe denuted the area of all food and use by people and still mice flocked.the situation in the city that allows mice to be controlled is the factor of accesability.we can get them in a small area where theres only enough space to breed so many mice and they are under attack in every house.mountain mice have no restrictions on space or food or shelter.and there not under attack. so putting a trap out at a shelter is only going to catch mice to quick to set the trap.we found the mice would fill up to a hundred traps in one nite and if we had more ,they would have been full.

Hikerhead
01-29-2006, 22:31
Just get the hell out there and tell us about it when you get back.

minnesotasmith
01-30-2006, 05:08
while working for the youth conservation corpes i was part of a study on mice on the battlefield at gettysburg.we learned that trapping mice does not decreese the mouse population in these areas. the problem is like trying to fish the seas clean of fish.trapped mice remained constant all that summer and the number of trapps diddnt matter.the more traps used the more caught.we sprayed and we baited and we group traped andwe denuted the area of all food and use by people and still mice flocked.the situation in the city that allows mice to be controlled is the factor of accesability.we can get them in a small area where theres only enough space to breed so many mice and they are under attack in every house.mountain mice have no restrictions on space or food or shelter.and there not under attack. so putting a trap out at a shelter is only going to catch mice to quick to set the trap.we found the mice would fill up to a hundred traps in one nite and if we had more ,they would have been full.

I'm not worried about trying to appreciably clean out the mice population at any particular shelter, mweinstone. I just want to nail the first several mice I always see each night, the bravest of the little buggers that cost me the first several awakenings on as many nights as not on my Georgia sectioning hikes last summer (even after I started putting everything I did not need for sleeping on the bear cables outside). I have a couple of small lightweight plastic traps to take with me that are far easier and quicker to reset than the traditional wooden ones we all know and love/hate; using them's like reusing a clothespin, they're that quick to work. Anyway, if the traps end up being pointless to use (and thus to haul along the AT), I can always toss them or give them to another hiker; they only cost $1.99 total on clearance, so BFD if they are one more thing I shed on the Trail.

FWIW, I just reread (over the last two days) Robert Rubin's book "On the Beaten Path" about his (complete) thruhike in 1999. He used the shelter system extensively, yet mentioned shelter mice very little. I guess what I have gathered from thruhikers here on WB about how you eventually get too pooped to care about the mice is accurate. Certainly, there are still lots of hikers using the GA shelters who are not remotely at that point, going by their trail register entries. ;)

minnesotasmith
01-30-2006, 05:23
Just get the hell out there and tell us about it when you get back.

I'll be in a car headed towards Atlanta 8 days from now (it's Monday, what, Jan. 30th, 2006 as I write this). I would MUCH rather be slogging the Approach Trail than plotting and packing mail drops, and counting rolls of TP for my prepositioned dropoff box @ Neel Gap, and such, trust me. I'm having to tell my few remaining friends living here in my parents' home town that 1) I have little physical energy left each day after 2 1/2 - 3 hours of trail-and-hill walking (and doing some yard work to earn my keep) 2 days on/1 day off, and 2) that, yes, I am truly hitting the sack not much after 9:00 P.M. more nights than not, no matter what else is available to do. I figure that if I am already on the preferred Trail sleep schedule when I get there that there will be one less thing for me to adapt to.

I'm still trying to figure out how to do mail drops north of North Carolina. Can anyone comment here on the relative cost of market food in the North compared with the South? Also, are the Wal-Marts in southern Trail towns the ones with full grocery sections, or not? As Wal-Marts are in my experience usually the cheapest (nondollar store/non-expired food store) places to buy food, this matters.

apple pie
01-30-2006, 06:33
I started Feb. 13 last year. Went with NB trailrunners. They got wet real fast (snow and rain) but as long as you're moving it's no problem. I decided to carry campshoes (actually down booties last year) because I didn't want to put my dry socks in wet shoes for the nightly pee. And you'll be in shelters so long you can't avoid the having to go out after you take your shoes off. Are you bringing any books or cards or something to pass the time in the shelters? I found those first weeks very boring (when I wasn't hiking). Almost all nights I was in shelters by myself. Tarp tent is good enough. I carried a 15 degree bag but I might have lined it with a very light weight summer bag (funny the things you don't remember).

Good luck!

www.trailjournals.com/ApplePie

minnesotasmith
01-30-2006, 06:58
I will be bringing a set of summer gaiters (already own) and a pair of sealskin socks (ordered in my size and are waiting for me to pick up pre-hike at Mountain Crossings at Neel Gap). I carried a pair of Crocs for camp shoes on my section hikes last summer, and intended to do so again on my thru attempt. I have a zero-degree (synthetic, of course) sleeping bag waiting for me at MC also that I expect to carry until at least Pearsburg VA, but possibly as far as Waynesboro VA.

If I am alone in a shelter (or only other males are there), I figure the distance I must go in order to take a 2:00 A.M. pee is not as far as it would be for a woman hiker. That distance is even shorter if it is currently raining as well. ;)

I brought one paperback book with me on my first Georgia section hike last year, and never touched it; I found it hard to make myself even write brief entries in my journal. On my second section hike, I did not bring any books at all, and did not miss them (I normally read up a storm), even on nights I was alone (about 1 in 3 nights). The reason was that there was so fricking much I found I had to do each evening in the shelter before I sacked out for the night. From sweeping out the shelter, laying out my pad, blowing up my Thermarest, hauling water, treating it, cooking and eating the evening meal, getting rid of the evening meal in the morning (hint: involves a privy if available), cooking and drinking a pot of tea or cocoa, later getting rid of that tea or cocoa once my body was through with it, cleaning my pot and spoon, reading at least some of the Register (I tried to look over at least the more recent entries and those from the same time of year the year before), making at least an "I was here on this date" comment in the Register, etc., etc., I never had any time to read on a day I did a reasonable-length hike (like anything over 5 miles).

Now, if I was stuck in a shelter for more than one night due to an overuse injury or seriously lousy weather, I could see how a book would be very nice to have along. Neither of these has happened to me yet, though, so I can't speak about them from personal experience.

Please tell me something else, applepie. How far did you get along the AT? Also, how did you handle resupply in general and maildrops in particular, especially north of the Smokies?

apple pie
01-30-2006, 21:44
I made it all the way with a looong break (see my trailjournal), tried to stay away from maildrops. I think I did Fontana Dam and Glencliff (for wintergear). I had planned to send myself some stuff along the way but forgot so just hitched or ate real badly (Monson comes to mind). The only maildrops I really needed were the ones for replacement gear otherwise there was always a town nearby to hitch to.

On the clothes list I'd recommend liner gloves. Very nice to keep the chill off when you're hiking.

That's it! Going hiking in a few days!!!

minnesotasmith
01-31-2006, 10:07
They're 100% polypropylene (white, medium thin), if memory serves.

Working primarily off the online 2005 Companion, I spent several hours on the phone yesterday calling outfitters, hostels, and the occasional Post Office (when the others weren't available where I would consider resupplying), and found out the following:

1) You can get a shower (no more than 5.00; I think I was told it was 3.00) and do laundry at Mountain Crossings @ Neel Gap without springing for the fifteen bucks for a night in the hostel.

2) The mailing address for the Blueberry Patch hostel south of Hiawassee is incomplete. It should read 5038 U.S. Hwy 76 E, Hiawassee, GA 30546. The "E" is left out of the Companion's address. I can confirm that Mr. Poteat (thruhiker in 1991) is planning to have his hostel will be open for business on time, Feb. 15th. His shower has lots of travel soap, shampoo, etc., so that's not a worry. He also has a phone and a fridge in the hostel for hiker use (or at least did last year). I've been there before, and think highly of both him and his place.

3) My feelings about the NOC give me better expectations than I had before I called them. They now put maildrops in a stockroom that only employees have access to. The old "dump 'em in a stairwell and hope everyone that comes by is honest" unfortunateness is no more. They want you to put "AT Hiker" on all mail, so they will know it is not for staff (or, presumably, for other guests). They also want you to put the expected arrival date on the outside of your packages. They do carry Aqua Mira and alcohol stove fuel. The woman I spoke with on the phone was very friendly and as helpful as I could have wanted.

4) Fontana no longer has a hostel. There is no fee on maildrops.

5) Mountain Momma's @ Tenn. 32/NC 284/Davenport Gap -- I was told that Priority Mail (by US Snail) works better than UPS/FedEx. The latter two tend to screw up delivery, and you need their exact location codes to ensure getting your mail. Remember to not send any packages that weigh over 10 pounds, sending >1 if you have >10 pounds of stuff. She said you only need enough to get to Hot Springs, "that we're really rural out here". Expected arrival date on package outside wouldn't hurt, either. She seemed a genuinely wonderful person, judging by our time on the phone.

6) Hot Springs -- Bluff Mountain Outfitters. Again, very helpful and friendly. You can send maildrops no problem, with no fee. I was told it's important to put your real (as opposed to "trail") name on the package, and that UPS usually seems in their experience to be the cheapest way to their location for heavier packages. They are open 7 days a week, and carry Aqua Mira and alcohol stove fuel.

7) Dennis Cove Road/USFS 50 -- Kincora Hostel is very much going to be in business when I get there. Nice people there. Remember to put "c/o the Hostel" on the address for mail sent there.

8) US 58/Damascus, VA -- Mt. Rogers Outfitters (1990 thruhiker runs). Pleasant to deal with. Maildrops OK, with no fee. Remember to put your phone # on packages. They do carry Aqua Mira and alcohol stove fuel.

9) US 250/I-64/Rockfish Gap -- Rockfish Gap Outfitters. No sealskin socks, no 4E-width footwear, do have Aqua Mira (12.99 each), do have alcohol stove fuel @ 30 cents/oz. Maildrops OK; use 1461 E. Main St., Waynesboro, VA 22980 for mailing address.

10) US 522/Front Royal, VA -- Weasel Creek Outfitters. Run by Brandon & Wendy. They are "the hardware store on Main St." the Companion mentions. Maildrops are OK with no fee. Use 221 E. Main St, Front Royal, VA 22630 for address. They are open 6 days a week (closed Mondays). They have Aqua Mira, alcohol stove fuel, Sealskins, and the longer formfitting all-synthetic (bike-pants-like) underwear I have found prevents upper inner groin chafing. They don't carry Dunhams, but the person I talked with volunteered that they can order stuff like oddball-sized footwear for hikers ahead of time; just call them from an earlier spot along the Trail. Definitely hiker-oriented and friendly/helpful.

More in a minute...

minnesotasmith
01-31-2006, 10:44
11) Harper's Ferry, VA -- ATC office. The volunteer I got transferred to (older, probably retired-age guy, nice and helpful) confirmed no problem with maildrops, @ no fee. Said that there really isn't any AT museum there worthy of the name (not much of anything to go see at the ATC center there). I had somewhere gotten the idea that there was something in the way of a museum there, at least not this year, so this was a bit of a surprise for me. The "get your hiking pic taken at the Harper's Ferry ATC office" routine is still in effect, though, for anyone who wants it.

12) Boiling Springs, PA -- Post Office. They are open on Saturdays 8-noon. Remember to write "AT Hiker" on your mail.

13) Duncannon, PA -- The Doyle. Talked to Pat; he and Vicky run the place? Great guy, upfront and completely informal. Confirmed that maildrops are fine, with no fee. Use 9 North Market St., Duncannon, PA 17020 for mailing address. Is $20/night single, $30/night double (split to $15), including tax. Said that their food is plentiful, not to mention good and reliably available, unlike the AYCE at the truck stop. He also made a point of telling me about how they offer a (very useful in his O) free shuttle. I think I'd want to stay there just for the apparent atmosphere. He also mentioned several times that beer was VERY available there. ;)

14) PA 611/Delaware Water Gap, PA -- Dunkelberger's Sports Outfitter, Stroudsburg, PA. They're North of DWGap, via 611, to 191 North (I didn't get all of the directions). They were startled by the question as to whether or not they accept maildrops (no, they don't). Kind of neutral at best towards my call; I got the impression they aren't too familiar with helping out thruhikers.

15) NJ 23 -- High Point State Park. Very friendly and helpful person who seemed quite familiar with thruhikers. They do accept maildrops with no fee. Put the full address on mail. I confirmed the address in the Companion is correct. They're open 9-4 7 days a week, with a helpful twist; if you're going to get there after open hours, you can call ahead of time, and they'll put your mail outside for you.

16) Conn 341/Kent, CT -- Backcountry Outfitters. Spoke with "Dave". Helpful, friendly, patient guy. Maildrops are fine. They don't have 4E footwear or Sealskins. They do carry Aqua Mira, alcohol stove fuel, and that longer form-fitting Patagonia underwear I mentioned earlier.

17) Mass. 23/Monterey, Mass. West 1 mile to the East Mountain Retreat Center; this is the hostel Jack Tarlin hints hikers will not want to stay at. I trust his judgement and veracity enough I did not call them, and don't plan to stay there.

18) Mass. 2/North Adams, Mass. -- The Mountain Goat (outfitter). Maildrops are NOT accepted there. Neither do they carry Aqua Mira, alcohol stove fuel, Sealskins, 4E footwear. They do have the Patagonia boxer briefs, though. They're open 7 days a week, 12-6 M-Sat, 12-5 Sun. Not quite as well-supplied with the hiking stuff I use as I would have expected from their writeup in the Companion.

19) Vermont 11 & 30/Peru, VT -- Bromley Market. Very friendly, informal, helpful woman talked on the phone with me. Quite hiker-familiar. They DO accept maildrops (with no fee). Use Bromley Market, Rt. 11, Peru, VT 05152 for address. They're open 7 days a week.

20) Hanover, NH -- Post Office. Physical address is 50 South Main St.
Talked to a guy at what was Third Rock Outfitters. They are no more, at least WRT being an outfitter (they are named Apex and only do shuttles now). There is supposed to be a brand-new outfitter in town by the Trail called something like Hanover Outdoors, but I could not find it in an online phone # search.

Jack Tarlin
01-31-2006, 13:51
Some good info from Smith, with a few adjustments,comments:

1. The motels in Hiawassee also accept hiker mail.
2. Coming out of the Smokies, Standing Bear Hostel accepts mail, is a great
place, and is just off the Trail.
3. In Harpers Ferry, the Outfitter is open 7 days a week, and will accept
mail, tho you're you're better off sending it to the ATC office, as you'll
be going there anyway and the store's space is limited; the ATC is also
located close to the Post Office in case you need to go there as well,
to send stuff home, ahead, whatever.
4. The Post Office in Delaware Water Gap is practically within sight of
the Trail, right next to the church hostel.
5. I never told folks not to stay at the Retreat Center near Monterey. I said
it did not enjoy a reputation for friendliness. I have since heard excellent
things about this place and I retract my original comment; when I update
my "Re-Supply" article, this will be noted.
6. The Mountain Goat outfitters is in Williamstown, not North Adams, and
it's a fine full-service shop and very friendly.
7. 3rd Rock Outfitters was never in Hanover, it's way, way out of town. At
present, there is no full-service Outiftter in Hanover; the new store
Hanover Outdooors is primarily an upscale fishing store that also carries
some outerwear. Omer and Bob's Sporting Goods has footwear,
outerwear, and some accessories (hats, gloves, etc.) The new North
Face store downtown sells outerwear and a few sleeping bags and
small packs. At my suggestion, it may, repeat may carry a small selection
of hiker things----water treatment stuff, boot laces, etc. For those
needing a real outfitter, there's free bus service to nearby West Lebanon
NH, where there's an L.L. Bean and an Eastern Mountain Sports (on the
bus, tell the driver you want to go to the "Powerhouse Mall" stop).

cls
02-01-2006, 20:54
The Mountain Goat outfitters in Manchester, VT does accept maildrops.

minnesotasmith
02-02-2006, 06:34
BTW, Jack, thanks for the proofing of the earlier parts. Anything I put in here that is factually incorrect, please, by all means feel free to point it out, for my benefit, and more importantly, for that of anyone reading it who might be mislead by an unintentional error on my part.
================================================== ==

N.H. 25/Glencliff (p. 161 in 2005 online Companion): Noone answered my call @ The Hikers Welcome Hostel, but an answering machine did pick up. Its message seemed to confirm that that hostel still exists and still is in business.

U.S. 2/West 3.6 miles to Gorham, NH -- physical address of Post Office is 165 Main St. I confirmed the rest of the address; Gorham, NH, 03581.

East B Hill Road/Andover, East 8.0 miles to Andover, ME -- Pine Ellis B & B did not answer; was told by someone else I talked to in that town that the proprieters are trying to sell it. Was quite impressed by my chat with one of the owners of the hostel The Cabin (Earl & Maggie) WRT how well they seem to serve hiker needs. Mail drops are OK, and they are open year round. It's a good idea to call them from Gorham or earlier to reserve a spot, or to get other help needed. Was told that 3 days stay there is common. They seem to have a very slick slackpacking deal set up, where you have cheap AYCE breakfast and evening meal, and get shuttled to and from trail crossings, and sleep there in the interim. The point was made to me that you would need very little food while using their deal.

Maine 15/East 4 miles to Monson, ME -- talked to older woman at Shaw's. Sounded sad, knowledgeable, a nice person, a bit overburdened by events. Believe was Keith Shaw's widow. She said the son had tried to help keep it going, but he was married, with his own family, living some distance away in his own house, and it was unworkable for him to be a big part of things and keep Shaw's going. The place is definitely not going to reopen by them, although they are trying to find a buyer who will. A shame for all about events there.

Talked to Linda McLaughin, who does several things in Monson. I found her helpful, not partcularly hurried, and interested in helping out hikers as she can. First, she runs a therapeutic massage business; that is of no interest to me, but I encourage anyone who would want that, to patronize her business (for reason you'll see in a second). First, she frequently allows hikers to pitch tents on her property. Second, and even more interestingly IMO, she owns some kind of structure that in the past has used for housing hikers adequately if spartanly. Heating costs have forced her to probably not allow its use in the future. Although I did not discuss this with her (I thought of it later), I suspect something could be done to improve the situation. Namely, if someone donated a woodstove (or two) to her, and hikers made a habit of each bringing an armload of wood in with them, there just might IMO be a way of continuing this place's operation. Anyone want to pick up and run with this?

minnesotasmith
02-06-2006, 09:43
1) Physical training: I'm walking for over 2 hours 2 out of 3 days, likely averaging close to 3 hours. I timed my typical pace over a measured mile on a running track to be 19-minute miles, so I'm conservatively doing at least 5 miles a day, I figure. I'm intentionally not wearing a pack during training to avoid risk to my knees (my weakest parts). My route is a nearby walking trail that has sections with sustained (100-yard-plus) gently ramped sections that I walk repeatedly (yes, even FL has these). Resting heart rate is just over 60, with 124/73 blood pressure. Weight is way too high, but I expect this hike will do something major about that, "resetting" that body characteristic and give me a second chance.

2) Sleep schedule: I go to sleep between 2000-2200 hours, getting up between 0200 - 0600, waking spontaneously with no alarm clock use, as part of getting ready for the schedule I expect on the Trail.

3) Pre-hike nutrition: Being aware of how vegetables are the hardest nutritious food category to get while on the Trail, I'm making a point of eating two man-sized servings of spinach, broccoli, squash, brussel sprouts, parsley, cilantro, bell peppers, etc., every day. I'm also eating about 1/5th of a jar of wheat germ every other day, along with decaf green tea, skim milk, purple grape juice, and such (not neglecting protein and whole grains, of course).

4) I've decided while packing my maildrops that these offbeat food items are the most valuable: 8-oz. bottles of olive oil (Pompeii brand), Mestemacher-brand dense shelf-stable German whole-grain bread (17.6 ounces of low-water bread that lasts for months unopened is only 2" x 3.5" x 6.5"), 4.5 fluid-ounces little plastic lemons or limes containing lemon/lime juice (use ReaLemon brand; some imitation brands aren't actual juice) for my tea or just in water (one per mail drop), unspiced cuttlefish/squid jerky due to it being almost pure protein with negligible water (2 oz. weight is 28 grams of animal protein) (Orchids brand out of Taiwan, mostly), whole-grain Fig Newtons (Nabisco makes an inexpensive one), 0.5-oz-weight dried parsley flake bottles I got for $.50 from a dollar store, 3-oz. Parmesan cheese bottles, and the entrees from a few MREs (without the heating units!) with the cardboard cases removed (putting 3 or so together into gallon ziploc bags).

5) Ideas I'm using on space/weight reduction... I've taken all my cans of sardines/mussels/oysters out of their cardboard cases, writing what they are in permanent black marker on both sides. For the section right after Neel Gap (the first 8 miles or so of which I found pretty dry when I section-hiked it last summer), I'm prepositioning several small (10-oz.) plastic bottles of grape juice in my drop at Mountain Crossings in Neel Gap to supplement the water I'll carry from there. (I'm pre-hike leaving a gallon of distilled water there and at the Blueberry Patch as well.)

6) Several outfitters along the Trail will allow you to call them ahead of arrival and order something you need so that it will be there where you get to their town. I am planning on doing this for at least one hiking shoe replacement, as I have a very wide foot that is tough to find sizes for (12EEEE). I'd suggest setting up this kind of relationship pre-trail if possible.

Well, enough of my progress/ideas for now. ;)

mweinstone
02-06-2006, 21:50
my tent mate for 12 weeks on the divide was overweight maby 60 lbs.she was 5'7"she wore a leather belt.one day she fell and in seperating her pack items to carry among the group ,we foun a can of coke.and 10 pounds of horded food.we filed by with cups to recieve a squirt each, there were 17 of us,as she watched and then we hiked. all summer she got thinner,stronger,more confident,better at being a group leader. on the last day we came out of the mountains and she gleefully showed everyone her 20 inch piece of leather now uselessly dangeling from her now much to long belt. she could have cut that leather off. but it was a badge of honor.and we all loved her as one of the bunch at the end. and she started as a fearfull ,hording,hermit. to this day she was the best tentmate iever had cause of her simple ability to change when forced to by circumstance. i belive you mini have this wonderfull quality. of all the folks,i really will be following your trip. when do you leave for springer? im negotiating a ride for this friday possibily!i could be asleep on my trail in as little of five days! what do you think of that? jelouise?

mweinstone
02-06-2006, 22:04
i assume if we both start around the same time with you in front,ill catch you by neels.im not trying to start fast, but i wont be able to slow down cause im impulsive compulsive .im thru with fighting my urges to slow down and pace in the start of a big trip. this time im using reverse sicology on myself.im gonna go as normal ,witch is much too fast to start, and let myself hurt my feet. that way ill be exspecting the blisters and the pain and the heeling time off and zero days and ill be ready .this way i wont go,damm,. how could i be soo stupid!..........i blew my feet out again! dammmm! instead ill just take off my shoe,...calmlt gaze apon my big fat blisters,....and say,.............cool! i timed my blisters to happen at this great place where ill enjoy laying over to heel. and ill pat myself on the back and collapse.

minnesotasmith
02-06-2006, 22:24
I'll be hiking shelter to shelter for some time, probably at least until I clear the Smokies. My bod likes to do 5 - 8 mile days tops right now, I'd say. Tell me, please, if I see you, how will I know you? Do you have a distinctive piece of gear, or what?

gargamel
02-07-2006, 07:14
@ minn & matt

Best wishes for your hike. I'll start next tuesday and probably catch up with you as my initerary is a little tight. So I'll have to do some longer days. In case you are looking for me: I'm the guy with this pack on his back :D

Good luck and stay safe & warm.

mweinstone
02-09-2006, 22:03
i wear my cookpot.never heard of any one else who does. of course johnny did when he went a plantin.yeah youll know me.

Panzer1
02-09-2006, 23:40
i wear my cookpot.never heard of any one else who does. of course johnny did when he went a plantin.yeah youll know me.

What do you mean, you wear your cookpot?

Panzer

minnesotasmith
02-13-2006, 06:51
Well, it's been a comedy of errors so far. For a variety of reasons, I did not manage to get my packing done in time to meet Dances With Mice and his friend at Black Gap shelter Sat. afternoon 2/11. The roads ended up being kind of interesting, I heard, esp. USFS 42 (Springer had 4-5" of snow midday that day, someone told me).

So, I tried to get started Sunday 2/12. My mother drove me to Amicalola, and I weighed my pack. 64 pounds -- ouch. I had a starting packweight of 42 pounds (inc. food and water) when I did my 2nd section hike in GA last summer. I knew that I would go up at least into the 50s with winter gear. Gear additions included going to a quality 0-degree synthetic sleeping bag (Mountain Crossings suggestion -- about 4#), fleece balaclava, Ursack, 2nd set Patagonia long underwear, polypro glove liners, 1 pr. liner socks, and a couple kinds of medicine I've been prescribed since last July.

minnesotasmith
02-13-2006, 07:03
Before weighing my pack, I posed with it on by the Arch for my mother and niece to take the traditional picture. Walking with my pack on through the ranger station/visitor's center, an elderly couple saw me, and asked me some questions, which I politely answered. (There's a point to this I'll get to in a minute.)

I figured I desperately needed to dump some packweight, or I would never see Fontana. My first plan was to go through my pack on the sidewalk next to the visitor's center, and see what I could quick shed. I managed to dump 4# in short order, mainly food. While I'm doing this, a family (married couple, at least 3 kids, including 2 boys around 12 & 14-YO) came around, and started peppering me with questions at great length, which again I answered patiently. (My mother waited patiently inside the visitor's center, just on the other side of the glass, through all this, my niece running back and forth, helping as she could, but mostly watching what I was doing, asking what gear items were used for, etc.)

minnesotasmith
02-13-2006, 09:13
Back on after computer problems...

To make a long story short, the old man handed me five dollars "to put in my pack" while I was sitting on the ground going through the contents of my backpack. Talk about making me feel good about the people around the Trail; I got unasked-for Trail magic before I even set foot on beyond the Arch.

I purged something over 4# from my pack, and need to dump still more. It was pretty cold at Amicalola yesterday, so I'm not losing any clothing just yet.

My mother didn't like the idea of her driving back to my sister's in the dark (she has very poor nightvision). Neither did she much like the idea of my hiking partly in darkness to Black Gap shelter over snow-covered rocks yesterday. She has been my primary homebase support for my thru (about 14 maildrop boxes full of my weird food fill a room as we speak), so I figured I owed her that concession.

I couldn't reach anyone at the new hostel between Suches and Dahlonega (left message and paged, no result), so getting dropped there was no option. I didn't stay at the shelter @ Amicalola BC I perceived it as a roadside shelter, with all the attendant theft, etc. risk. So, my mother and I drove back to my sister's, and spent the night. There is about an inch of snow here (in Atlanta) this morning. We intend to drive BACK to Amicalola late morning today to drop me off. The roads should be clear then IMO (NOAA's warnings re bridge ice in Atlanta today notwithstanding), and I will finally start my thruhike.

Whew. The lessons here IMO are that getting to the trailhead, ready to start a thruhike, is a bigger fraction oif doing a thruhike than I had ever imagined. Staying flexible WRT arrangements and mentally is proving to be essential before I even start my hike; bet those will stay required, all the way until I'm home and working again.

minnesotasmith
02-13-2006, 09:20
T-Mobil cellphone could not get a signal in Amicalola yesterday, but did in Dahlonega.

Teatime
02-13-2006, 09:47
Endeavor to persevere!

minnesotasmith
02-13-2006, 16:03
Endeavor to persevere!

My (lives in Florida) mother didn't want to drive back over black ice today after taking me the 75 miles to Amicalola. As black ice was abundant 10' out my sister's front door this morning, I couldn't plausibly take the position that the N. GA school closings, news warnings about ice on highway bridges/overpasses, etc., were baseless overreactions. So, I had to wait another day, until tomorrow, Tuesday 2/14/06, my original start date. Jeez. Well, as my sister put it, to keep the whole thing in perspective, a couple of days is not that big a deal in the context of a 5-month hike. Plus, it'll be at least 10 degrees warmer (high and low) tomorrow.

I've made arrangements with a fellow member of WB to post the content of my calls to him about my progress. So, please wish me well, all.

John B
02-13-2006, 16:05
If you're going over your stuff one final time, would you consider posting your final gear list?

And good luck. I hope you enjoy every step of the way.

minnesotasmith
02-13-2006, 17:12
If you're going over your stuff one final time, would you consider posting your final gear list?

And good luck. I hope you enjoy every step of the way.

I can toss in a couple of points on my gear I've settled on right now.

1) A winter sleeping bag is BIG compared to a summer one. I had to leave behind my big green Coleman pad and go back to my Thermarest, as my sleeping bad took up the spot on my pack I was using to attach my Coleman pad.

2) I have gone back to using nearly pure methanol (yellow HEET) for stove fuel. I know it is easier to ignite in winter, and won't soot up my pot, stove, windbreak, etc., the way isopropyl (in the form of red Iso-HEET) did.

3) I currently am using a conventional platypus 4-L bag for camp water-hauling. I have someone mailing the bag the product comes in from a Franzia wine box to one of my first maildrops, an improvement IMO. The platypus top comes apart when full of water, and I have to be careful not to let it tip over, as it will spill. This is not a problem with the Franzia container.

4) I am carrying two ultralightweight homemade (by talented engineer friend) alcohol stoves in case I crush one. Likewise, I have 2 full and one partial sets of Aqua Mira with me, as the peace of mind from knowing I can go a long ways without running short on that is worth the weight IMO.

5) Have tiny lightweight windup (batteries optional but unrequired) AM/FM/weather radio for safety and entertainment in empty shelters.

6) I put a contractor bag in most of my maildrops (pack liner, sleeping bag cover).

7) Pack is a Kelty, and footwear is Dunham Terrastryders.

mweinstone
02-13-2006, 18:03
so i wear it kinda.its on the top of my vertical foam pad outside my pack .more to the point,people (some of whom's name contain beverages)are launching!and i for one am extremly happy for mr minni soda stove hiker.good job on the archway drop off. hope you loose more weight than you knew you had.i sat waiting for my ride to firm up. i got a couple leads for tommorow and the next 3 days.ill get there.meanwhile my son skipped a bunch of classes on thursday and friday then dissabled the password for renweb. renweb allows parents to check childrens attendence and progress. smart bastard eh?so today i cleaned and threw out fridge contents and checked every atom in the universe for the google time to make sure nothing can interfear with a smooth transit to the wild places. and minni ,your quite astute in noting the difficulties in escaping the confines of our treanches.i belive their is a high math answer and a spit and sweat answer to the question;why is it so hard to simplifi?and the answer is ,cause we take pride in our stupidity.i dont really know why we make life so complex but i do like what weve done with the planet so far.

Lone Wolf
02-13-2006, 18:05
It's a full moon. We understand.