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Gambit McCrae
05-23-2016, 15:41
I feel that this could get as heated as a squeezebox dog thread (not my intentions at all).

I ran across a thought provoking post on a FB group of a young lady expressing that her, husband, 1.5year old, and 3 year old would be flip flopping, HF Nobo, then HF Sobo next year. Inviting anyone who would wish to join, to join! lol

I replied in a respectful way the following: "I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but you will probably get a large amount of negative press on bringing your children along on your dream. My suggestion would be to leave them with grandma and grandpa, or wait till they are in college before you set out."

Her response was "no thanks lol, other kids have hiked the AT"

Peoples thoughts on YOUNG children being drug onto the AT for a thru hike? I say "drug" because I seriously doubt that it was an 8month olds, or a 2 year olds ide to hike 2200 miles along the east coast lol

chknfngrs
05-23-2016, 15:49
Let 'em riot! Not your choice but don't let that stop them

Pedaling Fool
05-23-2016, 15:49
I fully support revocation of all child labor laws. All children should do a thru-hke:)

Uriah
05-23-2016, 15:51
I suspect it's all about gathering publicity, thus the Facebook post. In 2013 I hiked with Buddy Backpacker and his mom and her boyfriend some, and the kid, a mere child by profession, was the strongest among us. He was five then and has since gone on to hike the PCT and CDT. He seemed to love it like the rest of us do, but it's hard to know for sure.

Gambit McCrae
05-23-2016, 15:59
More positivity here then I expected to get, maybe I need to change my POV!

Ashepabst
05-23-2016, 16:05
"no thanks lol, other kids have hiked the AT"

don't LOL you love LOL nonsensical and awkward LOLs? ...LMFNAR is perhaps what they meant. (laughing maniacally for no apparent reason)

swisscross
05-23-2016, 16:19
The children will not remember the journey.

Good or bad, not my call.
Wish them luck but more than likely they will not finish.

Lnj
05-23-2016, 16:23
As a mom who would LOVE it if her kids would come with her (they are 14 and 17), I can say that the lady bringing a 1.5 yr old and a 3 yr old should perhaps think this through a bit longer. Kids are great on the trail, as they have endless energy and ability that we old folks have long forgotten, if we ever had it to begin with. BUT... that KIDS... not babies. If they child has only been walking on solid flat carpeted ground less than a year, I can't fathom how he/she will climb a mountain. And parents who are loaded down with all the extra gear required to care for said baby, would be(IMO) way too encumbered to react quickly if a fall should happen.

As if a hike of the AT were of not challenging enough, without adding 2 babies to the mix! Oh and what about the crying? How much fun would that be at camp for everyone else?

The upside... bet the bears would leave them alone. One ear-piercing squeal of joy or fury(sounds the same on a decibal level) would send all wildlife into hiding I imagine.

But if they do it... I WILL READ that journal. Now that's a book and a movie in the making... which could be behind the whole idea in the first place.

Starchild
05-23-2016, 16:31
Children have been on such long distance journeys for eons, no problem, they are more than equipped to be travelable, and it does not require modern car seats and the like. They are children of humans, that's what they were made for (or, if you prefer, evolved to do). The 3 yr old may have memories of it, the 1.5 maybe not so much but something should be there of this experience.

Either way sounds better then iPadding them though their childhood. Way to go Mom and Dad.

Old Grouse
05-23-2016, 16:40
I guess it's about time for a reference to the Family From The North.

SteelCut
05-23-2016, 16:43
I guess it's about time for a reference to the Family From The North.

I was thinking about them too.

I'm not sure if you'd call them children, but these 7 and 9 year olds did a thru hike a couple years ago and were doing 20+ mile days at times: https://kallinfamily.com/

Tuckahoe
05-23-2016, 16:47
Hey, as long as they keep them leashed...


And in all seriousness, what a parent chooses to do with their kids is none of "your" business and none of my business.

jefals
05-23-2016, 16:56
I don't know...seems a little dangerous. I haven't been on the AT, but there are lots of places in the PCT where you really have to watch your footing or you can easily go stumbling off the side of a mountain...

Lnj
05-23-2016, 17:18
I was thinking about them too.

I'm not sure if you'd call them children, but these 7 and 9 year olds did a thru hike a couple years ago and were doing 20+ mile days at times: https://kallinfamily.com/

Exactly... 7 and 9 are great ages. Been walking a very long time. Probably very good at it by that age. And still really small and limber. Perfect hiking buddies. They will keep you young. When I hike (just day hikes) with my 14 year old, I end up going faster and doing more just trying to keep up with him. I have begging him and my daughter to go on an overnighter with us, but they haven't succumbed.

Correct that it is no one's business but the parent's. But this is a forum for posting thought s and opinions so... they are like noses, most every body has one and the only fun in it is sharing it with others.:banana

Ashepabst
05-23-2016, 17:45
where're all those poopy diapers gonna go? :eek:

-Rush-
05-23-2016, 17:46
IMO, that's really young and I fully support taking your kids on hikes. There are a lot of challenges at that age that I'd rather not deal with on an extended hike. I couldn't imagine taking them through the 100 mile wilderness unless the Dad was Bear Grylls and they had full bug suits. Also.. kids crying in the night can really upset a lot of people trying to enjoy the outdoors. So many challenges!

shelb
05-23-2016, 17:49
where're all those poopy diapers gonna go? :eek:

I wondered the same thing! There would be a lot more weight carried due to the needs of the youngest!

saltysack
05-23-2016, 18:10
****...I can't imagine dragging kids that young up the trail! Seems crazy to me but what ever floats your boat.....****ty diapers and a crying baby in a shelter sounds awful to me..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lnj
05-23-2016, 18:29
Also, how do you keep a 1.5 year old from dropping snacks along the trail and/or not eating in their tent? The bears, raccoons, squirrels and all other manner of wild life could just follow the trail of cherrios. Again, I so want to read the journal of this trip, if they do in fact attempt it.

Datto
05-23-2016, 21:12
I guess it's about time for a reference to the Family From The North.

I ran into them in New England and spent a night with them. That 10 year old girl was smarter than some of the people who graduated from college with me.


Datto

Malto
05-23-2016, 21:23
We hosted a family a couple of years ago in our home for a night. The kids were about 8 and 10 and we're having a ball. THis is a bit different given the younger age. But as always CYOD (carry your own diapers.)

egilbe
05-23-2016, 21:29
I was thinking about them too.

I'm not sure if you'd call them children, but these 7 and 9 year olds did a thru hike a couple years ago and were doing 20+ mile days at times: https://kallinfamily.com/

I met them! Good kids. Didn't seem the worse for wear.

Hikingjim
05-23-2016, 22:38
https://www.nfb.ca/film/finding_farley
canadian movie with a couple, a 2 year old, and their dog, on a long canoe trip. Looked like a blast for a young one! Beats daycare

Bronk
05-24-2016, 06:13
Do they really want to carry 2 kids for 2,000 miles? The reality is they just won't be able to. So I say let them try, they won't make it far and will be off the trail. I just can't imagine the 1 1/2 year old walking much at all and the 3 year old will slow them way down. Two or three days of carrying them is all it will take to convince them its not that great of an idea. Carrying dirty diapers for 40 miles? I just can't imagine anyone doing this...hope they don't plan on just littering.

Old Grouse
05-24-2016, 06:25
I was thinking about them too.

I'm not sure if you'd call them children, but these 7 and 9 year olds did a thru hike a couple years ago and were doing 20+ mile days at times: https://kallinfamily.com/

I was referring to the family described by the Barefoot Sisters in their first book.

swisscross
05-24-2016, 09:25
where're all those poopy diapers gonna go? :eek:

Diapers would be my last concern.
I was raised in cloth diapers and they can be washed on the trail.
Went disposable for our children.

Don't most children start walking around 1 year old.
The youngest being so young the parents would have to carry them more than the child would be walking.
Does not sound fun.

I did not even think of the food issues and the crying (amazing how the human brain will forget pain...).

chknfngrs
05-24-2016, 09:45
#butyoucanttellthemno and #thenyousayitdyouso

illabelle
05-24-2016, 11:47
For those who are interested,
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/841-The-Family-from-the-North

mandolindave
05-24-2016, 12:09
It depends on the child, and the child's age. Teaching a child how to behave in different situations is important, But constantly taking a child places where they can't be kids, seems unfair. For some kids, the trail would be a perfect place to be a kid. Constantly telling a kid to keep up, or telling a kid," NO ", just seems like torture for parent and child.

I camped with a couple that didn't have kids….They made up a rule that kids could stay up as late as they wanted. They didn't have dogs either…I'll leave that topic alone.

Leo L.
05-24-2016, 12:30
We took our kids to wherever it seemd possible, including skiing, hiking and staying outdoors overnight.
Had to carry the young one most of the time.
While we spent lots of time outdoors, we typically covered a range of hundreds of meters, up to several km maximum. It was all about staying safe and comfortable for the kids and to leave a wide margin for ourself.
I'm pretty sure it will not work to achieve any ambitious long-term goal like doing a 2000-mile (or even only a 100-mile) hike in any given time with kids this age.

When being with kids, you have to play the kid's games, not the grownup's games.

Having read something about a film and a book to be produced and maybe the hike taking place just for that matter (and for some record books maybe), I would vote to just stop this crazy thing.

gsingjane
05-24-2016, 13:33
The logistics around this one are sort of interesting to contemplate!

The two biggest issues that jump up for me are, first, timing. Hey I could always be wrong, and often am, but it's kind of hard to imagine an 18 month old and a 3 year old (or a 2 and 4 year old) putting in big miles, all day, every day. It just is. The youngest any of my kids ever went out, and this was with minimal pack weight, was age 6, and even that was a stretch. It would seem that the family would have to plan to take virtually an entire year to hike the whole thing, and weather issues will be become pretty major at that pace.

Second, and this is coming from someone who also used cloth diapers with all her kids, just that weight alone would be virtually an entire pack-worth. We raised all our kids in Brooklyn until the oldest was 10, and I have vivid memories of hauling diaper pails up and down the stairs, and to and from the laundromat. I can't even imagine humping all that on a trail. That's true whether you rinse them or you don't, BTW. I just don't think that begins to be practical. Maybe they are planning to toilet train both kids before they leave and certainly there are plenty of 2 year olds who do become day and night trained. For their sake I hope that's the plan!

Jane

Gambit McCrae
05-24-2016, 13:58
IF we go by the commonly used rule of thumb for MPD for youthful folks, and even add 30% to that for overall improvement we are at a wopping 3.9 MPD for the 3 yo, as the younger being carried I assume.

3.9 MPD at 2200 mile trip: would only take 564 days to complete.

Lets bump it up to just 10 miles a day, which at a toddlers speed would be considered a FULL day IMO,

10 MPD at 2200 mile trip:220 days.

This is not including zero days, or sick days (kids get sick ALOT), so yep what have we learned? 2 things

1) 2+2=Math
2) good luck with that

illabelle
05-24-2016, 14:31
This thread made me think about the children forced to march on the Trail of Tears. I was wondering how long their trek was. Obviously the sufferings and difficulties of the Cherokee and other native people was not so trivial as diaper management, but still found the following Wikipedia entry interesting:

In 1987, about 2,200 miles (3,500 km) of trails were authorized by federal law to mark the removal of 17 detachments of the Cherokee people.[51] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears#cite_note-51) Called the "Trail of Tears National Historic Trail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Historic_Trail)," it traverses portions of nine states and includes land and water routes.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Trail_of_tears_map_NPS.jpg/500px-Trail_of_tears_map_NPS.jpg

Lnj
05-24-2016, 14:36
I imagine a great percentage of them died in route. Very sad.

JLorenzo77
05-24-2016, 14:39
I took my kids on a 2.2 mile hike on the trail. I was ready to go home at that point. No way in hell I would take my kids on a hike of 2,180 miles. I wouldn't even drive with my kids that far. I just realized, I might be a tad inpatient when it comes to my kids. :)

Uriah
05-24-2016, 14:40
IF we go by the commonly used rule of thumb for MPD for youthful folks, and even add 30% to that for overall improvement we are at a wopping 3.9 MPD for the 3 yo, as the younger being carried I assume.
3.9 MPD at 2200 mile trip: would only take 564 days to complete.
Lets bump it up to just 10 miles a day, which at a toddlers speed would be considered a FULL day IMO,
10 MPD at 2200 mile trip:220 days.
This is not including zero days, or sick days (kids get sick ALOT), so yep what have we learned? 2 things
1) 2+2=Math
2) good luck with that

I'm on your side on this matter, but to play devil's advocate: didn't you say they were planning half the trail this year and half next year? And my guess is that her kids will get sick a lot less frequently on the trail than they might otherwise at daycare or around neighbor kids.

Gambit McCrae
05-24-2016, 15:26
I'm on your side on this matter, but to play devil's advocate: didn't you say they were planning half the trail this year and half next year? And my guess is that her kids will get sick a lot less frequently on the trail than they might otherwise at daycare or around neighbor kids.

I may have caused confusion, I ment a flip flop thru hike, doing the northern half first, then immediately doing the southern half

Abi
05-24-2016, 19:19
I remember an article once about a family that "camped too long in a tent" and child services was called stating it was unfit conditions for a child to live in, the children were removed and the parents were facing a fine I believe, not sure the outcome.

Teacher & Snacktime
05-25-2016, 07:43
Well, I certainly love the idea of kids on the trail, but I'd refrain from tackling this chore. When my guys were very little we'd take them camping with us but they were oblivious to their surroundings. At around 4yrs old they started taking a more active interest in what the woods were all about, and began to understand the change between home and wilderness. Thus I don't personally feel there's any benefit for very young children on the trail, but I'd never try to dissuade a mom or dad who looked at the prospect as an adventure.

Support adventure....for the young, for the old and everyone in between. It's what makes all the work worthwhile and what feeds the dreams of youth.

CalebJ
05-25-2016, 08:24
I wouldn't want to do this either. My 20 month old loves to go hiking, but he spends the time in an Osprey Poco pack. He's capable of about half a mile at a time before completely losing interest in getting somewhere. Between that and the logistics of carrying the required supplies for small children, crying, etc. this doesn't seem like a reasonable idea IMO. Doing a weekend of camping with some short hiking is one thing. Attempting to go more than a few miles sounds like a death march rather than a time of fun family development to me.

LittleRock
05-25-2016, 08:43
I feel that this could get as heated as a squeezebox dog thread (not my intentions at all).

I ran across a thought provoking post on a FB group of a young lady expressing that her, husband, 1.5year old, and 3 year old would be flip flopping, HF Nobo, then HF Sobo next year. Inviting anyone who would wish to join, to join! lol

I replied in a respectful way the following: "I am not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but you will probably get a large amount of negative press on bringing your children along on your dream. My suggestion would be to leave them with grandma and grandpa, or wait till they are in college before you set out."

Her response was "no thanks lol, other kids have hiked the AT"

Peoples thoughts on YOUNG children being drug onto the AT for a thru hike? I say "drug" because I seriously doubt that it was an 8month olds, or a 2 year olds ide to hike 2200 miles along the east coast lol

This post made me imagine trying to attempt a multi-day hike with my wife and 2-year old, which gave me a pretty good laugh.

According to the ATC, the youngest person to ever have completed an AT thru-hike was 6. That seems about right. The youngest kid I've ever seen carrying a backpack on the trail was maybe 6 or 7.

A 3-year old and a 1-year old? Forget it.

They'll have to carry the 1-year old on top of all of their gear and their kids gear. So figure about 60 lbs. each minimum. The 3-year old might be able to manage 5 miles per day, if they're lucky. If they want to do any more miles than that they'll have to figure out how to carry the 3-year old too, so add another 30-40 lbs. onto one of their packs.

The hiking might actually be the easy part. If they have any sort of decency they'll avoid the shelters. Nobody's going to want to put up with a 1-year old waking up screaming in the middle of the night. So they'll have to take turns setting up camp, cooking dinner, carrying lots of water well away from the water source to wash diapers, etc. while the other one keeps a close eye on the kids. The 3-year old might be crapped out after the hike but the 1-year old will likely be bursting with energy after a long day of sitting in the carrier.

I'd give them a week at most before they quit out of sheer misery and exhaustion.

Feral Bill
05-25-2016, 11:00
This post made me imagine trying to attempt a multi-day hike with my wife and 2-year old, which gave me a pretty good laugh.

According to the ATC, the youngest person to ever have completed an AT thru-hike was 6. That seems about right. The youngest kid I've ever seen carrying a backpack on the trail was maybe 6 or 7.

A 3-year old and a 1-year old? Forget it.

They'll have to carry the 1-year old on top of all of their gear and their kids gear. So figure about 60 lbs. each minimum. The 3-year old might be able to manage 5 miles per day, if they're lucky. If they want to do any more miles than that they'll have to figure out how to carry the 3-year old too, so add another 30-40 lbs. onto one of their packs.

The hiking might actually be the easy part. If they have any sort of decency they'll avoid the shelters. Nobody's going to want to put up with a 1-year old waking up screaming in the middle of the night. So they'll have to take turns setting up camp, cooking dinner, carrying lots of water well away from the water source to wash diapers, etc. while the other one keeps a close eye on the kids. The 3-year old might be crapped out after the hike but the 1-year old will likely be bursting with energy after a long day of sitting in the carrier.

I'd give them a week at most before they quit out of sheer misery and exhaustion.

And that's optimistic

Berserker
05-25-2016, 12:06
I took my kids on a 2.2 mile hike on the trail. I was ready to go home at that point. No way in hell I would take my kids on a hike of 2,180 miles. I wouldn't even drive with my kids that far. I just realized, I might be a tad inpatient when it comes to my kids. :)
Ha ha ha...this is me too. After a couple miles of hiking with all the complaining and other stuff I'm good. Guess it just depends on the personalities of the kids and parents. Some kids and parents could do that and have a great time and others can't. So yeah, hike your own hike and all that stuff.

TheCheek
05-25-2016, 20:24
Exactly. HYOH you bat s**t crazy people. Anyone who has both thru hiked and raised kids ages 0-3 recently will know that if you can accomplish this, you will make Charles Bronson, Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee look like princesses.

TheCheek
05-25-2016, 20:28
Oh, and please do keep us updated on how swimmingly this goes, I thirst for comedy.

Adriana
05-26-2016, 04:24
An 18 month old and a 3 year old are required to be in car seats. That rules out hitchiking to town too. Maybe they are planning a supported hike?

lemon b
05-26-2016, 06:48
I believe some people who were brought on Thru hikes as children are now adults and have expressed their experience. Children on thru hikes has a history.
If memory serves me correctly most did not really enjoy the experience. Hope someone who did thru or attempt a thru as a child shares their experience here.

BonBon
05-26-2016, 07:00
We met a family with an adorable 3 or 4 year old at the beginning of the hike last year. They wanted to try and they were a very careful and awesome family. The little girl spoke to me about the hike. She was so cute. It got super cold that week and they went home, but they had a great adventure for a week. They were willing to try but also willing to go home if the child was having a hard time.