View Full Version : JMT: Rain gear for July?
HeatherNC
05-24-2016, 14:09
Hi all - I'm tru-hiking in late July/early August and wondering about rain gear. Balancing pack weight with being prepared. I always bring a hard shell rain jacket but am wondering about the need for rain pants at this time of year. Mine are heavy. Thoughts? thanks!
saltysack
05-24-2016, 14:12
For my sept thru used a ula rain skirt over my shorts...worked great only need once though..
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HeatherNC
05-24-2016, 15:03
Hadn't heard of these but just googled and WOW --- they look great! esp since i'm considering hiking in a skirt (with tights on chiller days).
Thanks!!
HeartFire
05-24-2016, 15:23
Heather, You might also want to look at the rain gear from LightHeart Gear (http://lightheartgear.com/index.php/rain-gear) - yeah, I'm plugging myself, but it's made here in North Carolina!
MuddyWaters
05-24-2016, 15:47
Yes you need raingear.
It can go long time without raining in the Sierra
But it can also rain all day every day for several days.
It usually doesnt, but the thing is....sometime it do.
Rain, fog, sleet, hail , torrential downpours, wind , and 48 degrees at 11000 ft+ all day is what you might encounter
Its the sierra in summer, high elevation, not the AT where its 85F and raining.
Sometimes people get lucky and get by with just a poncho. Thats really all thats needed 75% of time probably, but its just luck to get by with it.
HeatherNC
05-26-2016, 14:06
Thanks for this - yes, i know I need rain gear. the question was about bringing heavy rain pants.
HeatherNC
05-26-2016, 14:07
Heather, You might also want to look at the rain gear from LightHeart Gear (http://lightheartgear.com/index.php/rain-gear) - yeah, I'm plugging myself, but it's made here in North Carolina!
Thanks for this - will look into them too!
MuddyWaters
05-26-2016, 15:01
Thanks for this - yes, i know I need rain gear. the question was about bringing heavy rain pants.
If windblown cold rain at 48f on a pass is ok with you, leave them. If not, bring them. Pretty simple.
Downhill runout from some passes is 8-10 miles. Not steep enough to keep you warm even hiking fast when your wet.
Hikingjim
05-26-2016, 16:09
kilt/skirt will stop you from overheating and it's easy to take on/off. Use is it to sit on after the rain's done and everything's wet
if you go pants, a very light option is probably best
Heather_VT
06-15-2016, 10:58
I'm planning on bringing a rain kilt (I get too overheated in rain pants).
colorado_rob
06-15-2016, 11:14
Rain skirts are great, I used one (even as a guy...) on the AT. But on the JMT, it's more about the warmth you might need a couple/few times. I plan on repeating the JMT (or some variation thereof) next year and will be bringing my silly, clunky but light dri-duck (AKA Frogg Togg) rain pants (5.5 ounces) plus my 4 ounce rain skirt. Just MHO on a proper high sierra kit. I worn my dri-ducks quite often at night and in the mornings in camp. Even in july, it gets quite chilly at those times, especially at the high camps (like the popular Guitar lake).
The weather isn't as unpredictable as some make it seem in July on the JMT. It's often been said the Sierra Nevada along the JMT have some of the most favorable weather for it's elevations on the planet. That's not to suggest one shouldn't prepare adequately and KNOW what can happen and KNOW how to prepare for the likeliest outcomes.
No way would I, and I think many others, NEED a heavy rain jacket or pants for a July JMT thru. I'd suggest something very light wt like a skirt that doubles for rain IF that scenario presents itself and you can hike in when not raining in 80*+ temps with exposed hiking conditions. Alternatively, light wt much more breathable wind pants might work too. I've carried 5 oz GoLite Tumalo rain pants on two July JMT thrus and they saw so little use for rain. I wore them in camp and slept in them. I would not do that again for a JULY Sierra hike on the JMT. If I did carry pants anymore they would be something like a Montbell Dynamo Wind Pants or Montane's Featherlite wind pants and that would likely be Sept forward into Oct. In July I've experienced Sierra rain but only once intermittent showers throughout the day. I've been in the Sierra alot as it's one of my favorite places to hike. It's usually of shorter duration as fronts pass through. 30 mins later it's back up to a sunny exposed 80 degrees. For the jacket in July I go with my lightest wt most breathable rain jacket that suffices for a wind jacket with comparatively minimal wt penalty OR....read on. IMO, for a JULY JMT thru one should strongly consider not approaching rain wear ONLY from being worn when raining. I've also done 150+ mile Sierra hikes that included many 10K+ ft passes in July fully comfortable in layers with a outer layer Wind Jacket like the Marmot DriClime or Patagonia Houdini both with a high quality functioning DWR. I'm still here. Haven't died.
I'm planning on bringing a rain kilt (I get too overheated in rain pants).
I agree with you. For JULY overwhelmingly you'll likely be more concerned during the day about staying comfortably coolish but being adequately able to address the possible rain shower or even slight chance of hail.
I always consider my entire ensemble as a ULer though. When I rock the Houdini I'm layering underneath it that will keep me warm if I do get damp or wetted out(merino tee and one very light wt merino 1/2 zip long sleeved), will have something dry to change into(including two pr of shortie light wt merino socks), use my quilt and a tarp as additional clothing in case of emergency, and have accessories like very light Manzella Windstopper gloves or very light nylon running gloves, very light merino beanie, etc. Don't forget using hand pockets and hoods on apparel to trap warmth.
saltysack
06-15-2016, 17:07
The weather isn't as unpredictable as some make it seem in July on the JMT. It's often been said the Sierra Nevada along the JMT have some of the most favorable weather for it's elevations on the planet. That's not to suggest one shouldn't prepare adequately and KNOW what can happen and KNOW how to prepare for the likeliest outcomes.
No way would I, and I think many others, NEED a heavy rain jacket or pants for a July JMT thru. I'd suggest something very light wt like a skirt that doubles for rain IF that scenario presents itself and you can hike in when not raining in 80*+ temps with exposed hiking conditions. Alternatively, light wt much more breathable wind pants might work too. I've carried 5 oz GoLite Tumalo rain pants on two July JMT thrus and they saw so little use for rain. I wore them in camp and slept in them. I would not do that again for a JULY Sierra hike on the JMT. If I did carry pants anymore they would be something like a Montbell Dynamo Wind Pants or Montane's Featherlite wind pants and that would likely be Sept forward into Oct. In July I've experienced Sierra rain but only once intermittent showers throughout the day. I've been in the Sierra alot as it's one of my favorite places to hike. It's usually of shorter duration as fronts pass through. 30 mins later it's back up to a sunny exposed 80 degrees. For the jacket in July I go with my lightest wt most breathable rain jacket that suffices for a wind jacket with comparatively minimal wt penalty OR....read on. IMO, for a JULY JMT thru one should strongly consider not approaching rain wear ONLY from being worn when raining. I've also done 150+ mile Sierra hikes that included many 10K+ ft passes in July fully comfortable in layers with a outer layer Wind Jacket like the Marmot DriClime or Patagonia Houdini both with a high quality functioning DWR. I'm still here. Haven't died.
DW...thinking about leaving my rain parka out and only bringing my Houdini this sept on the collegiate loop....thoughts...foolish?
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I have seen thru hikers dressed in full on rain suits with both jacket and rain pants. And I have seen thru hikers dressed in the tiniest of running shorts and a super light rain jacket. And all in the same rain event. Sometimes, walking in the same group!
It just depends what you are comfortable wearing when it is raining, and what you are comfortable carrying when it is not raining.
saltysack
06-15-2016, 19:03
That would be me last year on the jmt in sept....snowing on top of silver pass as I walked in shorts and a light rain shell...everyone I passed asked if I was from Alaska....nope Florida...lots of laughs!
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DW...thinking about leaving my rain parka out and only bringing my Houdini this sept on the collegiate loop....thoughts...foolish?
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Got to be more careful, more mindful, and possibly more comprehensive in all that's going on(what skill set one has, how one layers, what one can endure, what one can bring to their defense…) at that time of the yr in that range at those elevations with some of that exposure of the C West IF one is going with a Pat Houdini. I see weather as more unpredictable in the C West case in Sept compared to the JMT in July. Deeper into Sept the more one could see colder temps and snowfall, the greater the unpredictability. Spend enough time at elevation in CO sooner or later you'll experience snow, hail, lightning, rain wind etc in Aug and Sept. I'd say decent chance of experiencing all of that in those months. At the early stages of Sept might get some late seasonal monsoon rain although I think it will be past by mid Sept. The Coloradans like Mags, Colorado Rob, Bear Creek, etc should be able to correct me if I'm wrong or add to my opinion.
Likely best for the majority to take along a light wt rain jacket that has exceptional breathability(I know it's overused marketing term) to be used on greater occasions other than if raining. I'd likely be opting for a Montbell Versalite, Marmot Mica, or ZP Challenger(latest version) rain jacket. I'd also consider the Montbell Tachyon or Patagonia Houdini though too after checking the weather for the higher elevations about 7 days forward because that's about how long it has taken me to do the C Loop twice. I also already have all these pieces. That's me and shouldn't be the basis of what others do. Again, no piece of gear operates on its own.
MuddyWaters
06-15-2016, 19:28
Just because you can often get by without some gear, doesnt mean its a good idea.
Plenty of people bailed off JMT in 2014 and didnt finish their hikes, when it snowed 2 ft on Aug. 1.
Turk6177
06-15-2016, 19:45
Try these. They are super light weight and cheap (around $20). I used them on the JMT and they worked great for wind break and rain up over Forester Pass. I have used them a lot on the AT as well. http://www.froggtoggsraingear.com/DriDucks.shtm
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saltysack
06-15-2016, 19:46
Looking like early to mid sept....9-10 days...only a few oz more to add the helium 11 rain shell with the Houdini...
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Turk6177
06-15-2016, 19:47
http://www.froggtoggsraingear.com/DriDucks.shtm. These are great for wind and rain and they are cheap: $20 ish.
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Plenty of people bailed off JMT in 2014 and didnt finish their hikes, when it snowed 2 ft on Aug. 1. I can totally imagine many reasons why I would get off the trail if it snowed 2 ft. Mostly, I can imagine bailing because of walking/slogging issues. And running out of food issues - probably caused by the slogging thru 2 ft of snow or waiting out snow or whatever. I can't really picture getting off the trail to obtain rain pants.
I think that some people are more comfortable with the philosophy of "Better to have it, and not need it". Other are more comfortable in the "If I don't have it and need it, I can figure it out and be okay" camp. When it comes to rain pants in the Sierras in July or August, I'm in the second camp. I figure that my statistical chances of my dying of hypothermia in July are very low. Since we sometimes end up walking wet, I'm not sure rain pants would save me. Probably, better to have common sense. There are a few items I carry in the "Better to have it, but probably won't use it" category (SPOT, bear can, band-aids, duct tape, etc). But not rain pants.
I started to type that walking in the rain... no matter what pants... is miserable. But then I thought, "Wait! That's not even true". I've walked in the Sierras or other places, in rain or hail, at least 25 days and I don't remember ever feeling miserable. When I do occasionally feel miserable, I change my attitude so I see things more as an "adventure" or "memorable experience" or "a different kind of beautiful". I've been really afraid of thunder and lightening that often accompanies rain... but have never wished for rain pants. :)
Last summer was super wet (and I was out 10 days with no rain pants). I think that it was El Nino. Hoping this summer is a little drier! Will have to see.
Yes you need raingear.
It can go long time without raining in the Sierra
But it can also rain all day every day for several days.
It usually doesnt, but the thing is....sometime it do.
Rain, fog, sleet, hail , torrential downpours, wind , and 48 degrees at 11000 ft+ all day is what you might encounter
Its the sierra in summer, high elevation, not the AT where its 85F and raining.
Sometimes people get lucky and get by with just a poncho. Thats really all thats needed 75% of time probably, but its just luck to get by with it.
Please tell me when this has happened last - raining all day for several days under typical AUGUST High Sierra(JMT) weather - and the likelihood of it happening? It's not about luck! It's NOT about being reckless! The majority of the High Sierra precipitation occurs between late Oct and April NOT in AUGUST. In August is the monsoon season of the High Sierra but showers and even hail and snow are normally short lived accompanied by fast moving fronts. Heavy snowfall in Aug is NOT likely. Significant depth accumulations of more than 6 " of snow in AUG is not the norm. Even IF snow does fall it shortly melts. High Sierra weather is VERY CONSISTENT in August and correctly assessed as one of the most favorable for the elevation of the range by global comparisons. Of course elevation and exposure plays into situations but the scenarios you depict are not typical.
Again, a light wt highly breathable rain jacket while taking into account how that piece plays into the rest of your gear and individual skills can do the job on a JMT thru in August. I've seen 100's thru the JMT with only a light wt wind shell that has a good DWR. Again, no apparel piece functions independent of many other possible factors.
Average temps and rain fall for Tuolumne Meadows.
http://www.intellicast.com/Local/History.aspx?location=USCA9309
Tuolumne Meadows is "only" 8600 ft elevation. But, the JMT is at that elevation much of the time. It isn't 12,000 ft the whole way. And the rain is the same on the whole JMT as the Tuolumne averages.
Of course, no one day is "average". If the average temp is 80... one day it was 70 and the other day it was 90. And then another day is 75 and the other day is 85.
Same with rain. No July is average. Maybe it rained 1" one year, and .5" inch another year to make for an average of .75". And it might rain 1/4" in 15 minutes and just come down in buckets. But it is nothing like the East Coast summer rain. I was shocked that DC got like 7-8" a month in the summer. That is just so crazy to me.
Also... about a skirt. My sister NEVER gets burned, especially on her legs. She never puts sunscreen on her legs. She got REALLY burned on her legs on the JMT last August going over passes.
Sun protection is a much bigger concern than rain.
MuddyWaters
06-16-2016, 12:17
Please tell me when this has happened last - raining all day for several days under typical AUGUST High Sierra(JMT) weather - and the likelihood of it happening? It's not about luck! It's NOT about being reckless! The majority of the High Sierra precipitation occurs between late Oct and April NOT in AUGUST. In August is the monsoon season of the High Sierra but showers and even hail and snow are normally short lived accompanied by fast moving fronts. Heavy snowfall in Aug is NOT likely. Significant depth accumulations of more than 6 " of snow in AUG is not the norm. Even IF snow does fall it shortly melts. High Sierra weather is VERY CONSISTENT in August and correctly assessed as one of the most favorable for the elevation of the range by global comparisons. Of course elevation and exposure plays into situations but the scenarios you depict are not typical.
Again, a light wt highly breathable rain jacket while taking into account how that piece plays into the rest of your gear and individual skills can do the job on a JMT thru in August. I've seen 100's thru the JMT with only a light wt wind shell that has a good DWR. Again, no apparel piece functions independent of many other possible factors.
Theres no such thing as averages. They dont represent any actual data.
I was rained on 5 days out of 13 in late july 2014.
One day all day, others on/off
Heaviest 1/4" hail of my life before mather for 30 min.
Torrential sideways cold downpour at Wanda had me sheltered behind rocks for 45 min., Vowing to bring overmitts next time.
The long runout after mather was wet and cold. I could see breath, so I expect upper 40s. After about 8 mi I stopped because was shivering, in raingear. Could have stopped hours earlier and sat it out, but where is fun in that. Two british army guys in ponchos/bare legs had to stop to warm up right after mather, never saw again. Rained all night. Stopped right when got light next morn. Yay. About 21 hrs of rain.
I also saw 2 ft snow fall the day after I finished from lone pine, and talked to some who bailed,
Hiking from whitney to wp,hail was still deep in places. Day before had 6" hail accumulation from a storm I was told.
Just because things arent common. Doesnt mean they dont happen.
Up till day before I started, it had been very dry. Hot as heck. Yosemite falls had dried up.
Two days later, on bus to reno sierra was still dusted white for 100 miles north. It wasnt an overnight melter. And it wasnt localized. Few days and things back to glorious "normal"
I was rained on 5 days out of 13 in late july 2014. Hail.... Torrential sideways cold downpour at Wanda had me sheltered behind rocks for 45 min., Vowing to bring overmitts next time. Up till day before I started, it had been very dry. Yosemite falls had dried up. I think that MOST of your experience is pretty average and normal. 2 ft of snow is very unusual. But to get rain 5 days isn't that weird. Hail that piles up is very common and normal. 45 minutes of sideways torrents is very normal and average. And you might have to cross a pass at 48 degrees, in the rain and might be an uncomfortable couple/three hours. That isn't weird at all. But most passes won't be like that. And the question is... do you want to carry rain pants, just in case. And we'll all come up with different answers.
7 days of zero rain is also very normal and "average". It is a mixed bag of weather.
But with the weight of the bear can... makes me want to leave a bunch of stuff at home. Wouldn't leave a rain jacket at home. Rain pants, stove, fuel, tent poles and free standing tent, Kindle, books, etc... are all stuff I don't like to carry... but we are all different.
PS... I can totally see how 2' of snow on August 1st would make a lasting impression on you!
You didn't answer the question. Did you experience rain all day for several days under typical AUGUST High Sierra(JMT) weather - and what is the likelihood of it happening? What is the likelihood of that scenario happening in July? What is the historical likelihood of experiencing 2 ft of newly fallen snow in August? Please provide documentation for your opinions!
"Theres no such thing as averages. They dont represent any actual data."
Really? I believe NOAA and the NPS more than your opinion. Avgs do exist! Are accumulated by NOAA, the NPS, etc because they can be significantly useful and applicable. That's why they spend the time to do it and publicly provide the data.
Gee, you might have brought your Muddy Waters to the JMT in July 2014. :D
http://www.intellicast.com/Local/His...ation=USCA9309 (http://www.intellicast.com/Local/History.aspx?location=USCA9309)
For Tuolomne Meadows the data is clear! The Sierra including the High Sierra has experienced VERY VERY mild summer historical precipitation avgs for the period between June to Aug and starts to rise in Sept. The all day multi day rain as you describe for June through Aug and somewhat into Sept isn't normal. I'm not going to research it but if you're saying that's what you experienced something somewhat unusual was happening over the Pacific Ocean meteorologically.
MuddyWaters
06-16-2016, 14:58
Hurricanes arent usual either
If you look up florida weather averages in july-sept, youd never have an inkling they occur
They do
You probably have a 0.1% chance of experiencing hurricane conditions on fl coast at anytime during july-sep based on one every 10 yrs affecting given region. Doesnt mean you ignore it. Thousands of lives lost before modern technology come along to predict.
Point is, the unusual happens routinely. Just infrequently. And averages dont represent it.
Everyone can choose for themself what to concern themself with.
I think that he did answer your question, Dogwood.
I was rained on 5 days out of 13 in late july 2014.
One day all day, others on/off.
This seems very typical, and average, to me. I can see planning for most of the weather MW described. 8 days of no rain. 1 day of rain. 4 days of on and off rain. Totally my experience in the California Mountains.
2 ft. of snow, totally not average - thus, I can't see bringing stuff to plan for it. My plan: Bail, if it snows more than x inches and stays cold and doesn't doesn't melt for y days.
I don't own overmitts, so it would never occur for me to pack them or wish for them. :)
It is still good to get both points of view, because some people really are thinking, "Thank god, he mentioned overmitts, so I can pack them!".
MuddyWaters
06-16-2016, 15:52
Heres chart that shows some rain events in sierra in july-sep. Common in mid-late july
Most rain wont show on chart, its fraction of inch of constant light drizzle, and is localized. When the whole region gets an inch or two, its a big system
Rain shells great for hiking in cold blowing rain to keep my fingers warm
35236
Just got back from 6 days/5 nights near/on the JMT.
ZERO rain. Not one drop.
You might want to leave your rain skirt and rain pants at home. Heck... leave your rain jacket and tent rain fly or tarp home, too!!
Just kidding... just pushing MuddyWaters' buttons. :)
But is WAS super sunny and zero cloudy and rainy. Needed sun protection way more than rain gear. :)
MuddyWaters
06-28-2016, 14:32
I always have the same stuff. All 7 lbs worth.
I always have the same stuff. All 7 lbs worth.
I had exactly 12 lbs, including the 2ish lb bear can. Was happy enough with that. I think that it would cost me hundreds, perhaps over a thousand $$$ to lose another pound or two. I don't think I can rationalize the expense.
MuddyWaters
06-28-2016, 17:49
I had exactly 12 lbs, including the 2ish lb bear can. Was happy enough with that. I think that it would cost me hundreds, perhaps over a thousand $$$ to lose another pound or two. I don't think I can rationalize the expense.
You cant rationalize love, kids, or a light pack. You just do it.
My shelter works in "freak" wind-driven hail, we just had today.
I think that qualifies as multiple use.