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View Full Version : Any reason for me to take a tent on Smokies section hike?



CamelMan
05-26-2016, 21:55
In a couple of weeks I'll do a section from Fontana to Hot Springs. Some of the shelters were at or near capacity, but I don't think that should be a problem because of my non-thru-hiker reservations. (Even though I have no upper body strength.) The only place that's first come, first served is Standing Bear, but I expect to arrive in the early afternoon.

Can anyone think of a reason I should carry a tent?

swisscross
05-26-2016, 22:01
I personally think, while in the backcountry no matter how tame, one should carry a shelter.
A simple tarp?

bigcranky
05-26-2016, 22:08
Yes: the shelters can be full of people who did not make reservations. At that point your only option would be to ask someone already inside the shelter to leave. Having even a small tarp opens the option of just tarping or tenting outside the shelter. If the ranger asks, you can show your reservation and say the the shelter was full when you arrived.

Starchild
05-26-2016, 22:11
Sleeping on the dirt floor inside the shelter is also a viable option.

rafe
05-26-2016, 22:14
If it were me, I'd bring a tent, bivy, tarp... something. Ignoring issues of rangers and reservations, what if you had to spend a night in the woods?

illabelle
05-26-2016, 22:20
This question comes up with regularity. Absolutely you need to carry a tent, hammock, or tarp.
What will happen if you arrive at a shelter in the rain after everyone has set up, and there's no more space inside? Will you demand that a thru-hiker leave their spot and go set up a tent?
What if some people are there without a reservation. Will you insist on seeing everyone's paperwork?
Or what if you get ill or injured and physically can't make it to the next shelter. Do you really wanna tough it out trying to sleep out in the open?

You should immediately repent of your foolish idea, or prepare to be inundated with critical comments from the WB judicial team.

daddytwosticks
05-27-2016, 06:53
Have you seen pictures of the shelters between Standing Bear and HS? Some of them are not in very good condition. The sleeping platform in Groundhog Creek shelter had a major slope to it. Walnut Mountain shelter sleeping platform was very short and the wind blows thru the log walls. Take a tent/tarp with you just in case. :)

Theosus
05-27-2016, 07:04
Have you seen pictures of the shelters between Standing Bear and HS? Some of them are not in very good condition. The sleeping platform in Groundhog Creek shelter had a major slope to it. Walnut Mountain shelter sleeping platform was very short and the wind blows thru the log walls. Take a tent/tarp with you just in case. :)

Agreed! Plus you never know when scouts will be there. when I did that section, there was a troop of scouts taking up Walnut Mountain, and the wind was terrible that night. Pitched my hammock on the leeward side of the hill and didn't have much wind, but on the ridge where the shelter was, it was pretty rough. Groundhog creek was pretty small, and on a saddle between hills. Same issues - front of the shelter was facing right into the wind, which blew all night.

CamelMan
05-27-2016, 08:24
Thanks for the advice, everyone. It's a 2 pound tent and won't kill me. I was particularly worried that people would fill up the shelters in the Smokies without reservations or come to Cosby Knob to party or something. I've stayed at campsites, but the only shelter I've stayed in was Double Spring Gap, and that was in the off season so there were maybe 5 people.

When I did the Springer to Fontana piece in May of 2010, I didn't see any problems (actually sheltered only once, when too tired to tent). There's a chance I won't make it to HS from SB without having to overnight so I'll take the tent for that reason alone.

I repent, illabelle. :)

illabelle
05-27-2016, 08:42
I repent, illabelle. :)

You are forgiven. :D

Hikingjim
05-27-2016, 08:47
Good decision
the peace of mind is worth the 2 lbs. You won't be thinking "must get to shelter early or I'm screwed!", "hopefully some losers don't steal my reservation!".

Or a small ankle twist and you're asking others for help with a shelter or hanging out in the rain

Hikingjim
05-27-2016, 08:51
section hike I just did in VA some guy had sent his tent home after the cold because "he never had issues with shelters and it's not cold anymore"

a few days later, it's 42f, heavy rain, and he's sleeping under the picnic table at a shelter with a tarp we gave him

CamelMan
05-27-2016, 08:52
Or a small ankle twist and you're asking others for help with a shelter or hanging out in the rain

Yeah, that's a good point, too. I would prefer to be self-sufficient.

rocketsocks
05-27-2016, 10:30
Hey, ya ever hear the one about?
a backpacker goes into the woods with three fifths of the 10 essentials...it dosen't end well.

perdidochas
05-27-2016, 11:51
Agreed! Plus you never know when scouts will be there. when I did that section, there was a troop of scouts taking up Walnut Mountain, and the wind was terrible that night. Pitched my hammock on the leeward side of the hill and didn't have much wind, but on the ridge where the shelter was, it was pretty rough. Groundhog creek was pretty small, and on a saddle between hills. Same issues - front of the shelter was facing right into the wind, which blew all night.

Speaking as a Scout leader, the Scouts should be in tents, and leave the shelters for others.

r2davis65
05-27-2016, 12:55
Take something. I just did the Fontana to I40 section and took a one person tent. Did I use it? No. However, it was worth the weight. You just don't know what you will encounter in a hike through the backcountry. I had reservations at shelters and had no problem. You may encounter closed shelters and overcrowded shelters due to closings. In my opinion, take a tent or at least a tarp.

Datto
05-27-2016, 15:36
In a couple of weeks I'll do a section from Fontana to Hot Springs....The only place that's first come, first served is Standing Bear, but I expect to arrive in the early afternoon.

Can anyone think of a reason I should carry a tent?

it depends if you know any of the Concierges at the shelters in the Smokies (I recommend Raoul). When you're handed the steaming hot towel and mint for the evening, tell them you don't have a tent but have a reservation. I'm sure all the Concierges have been trained to understand. Also, make sure you let Raoul know that you want to see Hamilton too -- then slip the Raoul a twenty. That pretty much guarantees service in the Smokies.


Datto

MtDoraDave
05-27-2016, 16:40
Take something. I just did the Fontana to I40 section and took a one person tent. Did I use it? No. However, it was worth the weight. You just don't know what you will encounter in a hike through the backcountry. I had reservations at shelters and had no problem. You may encounter closed shelters and overcrowded shelters due to closings. In my opinion, take a tent or at least a tarp.

Closed shelters due to bear activity is a real possibility.

I considered not bringing my tent on my last trip in the Smokies, but as the op said - it's only 2 lbs and I did end up using it because it was thru-hiker season.

On the other hand, the nights we were expecting storms, we had 18 and 19 people in a 12 person shelter (Tri-Corner)... funny how it was the same shelter on the way south, and again on the way back north 4 days apart. I digress, we could have squeezed 20 into it before it was "full" lol. Nobody wanted to go out into the inclement weather, so we just made the space, and nobody seemed grumpy about it. I figure it's all part of the experience, stuffing a bunch of people into shelter when the weather is expected to be bad.

saltysack
05-27-2016, 17:49
Need to rename this thread!!

Any reason to hike thru GSNP at all?

Permit, reservations, crowds and overcrowded rat boxes where you are required to stay, no dogs, man eating bears, litter......need I say more....think I'll skip that section!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BillyGr
05-27-2016, 19:20
Speaking as a Scout leader, the Scouts should be in tents, and leave the shelters for others.

Although in the mentioned section that wouldn't be an option, unless they were thru hiking Scouts? Since within the Smokies if they were only going for a short section they'd need reservations as well and would be required to use the shelters.

winger
05-27-2016, 21:14
Need to rename this thread!!

Any reason to hike thru GSNP at all?

Permit, reservations, crowds and overcrowded rat boxes where you are required to stay, no dogs, man eating bears, litter......need I say more....think I'll skip that section!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Best dang reply I have read on this forum in a long long time.....seriously!

Venchka
05-27-2016, 21:41
Need to rename this thread!!

Any reason to hike thru GSNP at all?

Permit, reservations, crowds and overcrowded rat boxes where you are required to stay, no dogs, man eating bears, litter......need I say more....think I'll skip that section!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Been saying that.
Great minds think alike.

Wayne

shelb
05-27-2016, 21:45
I am not sure if I need a permit... and I have another question:
(1) I will be hiking 250 continuous miles this summer from Springer north (I have already hiked over 500 miles of the trail north from SNP). Do I qualify as a section hiker - and need to register? I only ask because it appears registering has only a cost yet no benefit since the others on this thread have indicated that the section hikers should not try to take precedence over thru-hikers in the shelter. No biggie - either way...
(2) Would you give me the number of the concierge, so I can make advance reservations? (jk, lol)

Hikingjim
05-27-2016, 22:37
I am not sure if I need a permit... and I have another question:
(1) I will be hiking 250 continuous miles this summer from Springer north (I have already hiked over 500 miles of the trail north from SNP). Do I qualify as a section hiker - and need to register? I only ask because it appears registering has only a cost yet no benefit since the others on this thread have indicated that the section hikers should not try to take precedence over thru-hikers in the shelter. No biggie - either way...
(2) Would you give me the number of the concierge, so I can make advance reservations? (jk, lol)

technically you're a thru-hiker for the park's purposes if you start/end 50 miles before/after GSMNP and only use the AT.

TNhiker
05-27-2016, 22:59
yup....

get the "thru hiker" permit......

CamelMan
05-28-2016, 08:21
it depends if you know any of the Concierges at the shelters in the Smokies (I recommend Raoul). When you're handed the steaming hot towel and mint for the evening, tell them you don't have a tent but have a reservation. I'm sure all the Concierges have been trained to understand. Also, make sure you let Raoul know that you want to see Hamilton too -- then slip the Raoul a twenty. That pretty much guarantees service in the Smokies.


Datto

I don't, unfortunately, but I travel in a sedan chair with enough storage space for the tent. In addition to the crew there are usually 2, but sometimes 3, butlers. I will have one of them set up the tent for me.

CamelMan
05-28-2016, 08:23
(Contents intentionally deleted.)

JumpMaster Blaster
05-28-2016, 08:29
I recently did Fontana to Davenport Gap. As much as I didn't want to lug around an extra 43 oz of gear, I brought my tent.

Yeah, I had reservations at every shelter, yeah, there were a lot of people and a few thrus who had to tent, yeah, there were people who didn't have reservations show up, but one night I actually gave up my spot to a thru so I could get some quiet, restful sleep in my tent. I also like the privacy.

So yes, you should ALWAYS bring a tent. Plus, you never know when you might get injured or something and have to use it. If you're totally converned about weight, go with the absolute lightest option that will still give you some kind of protection from the elements.

CamelMan
05-28-2016, 08:30
Any reason to hike thru GSNP at all?

Permit, reservations, crowds and overcrowded rat boxes where you are required to stay, no dogs, man eating bears, litter......need I say more....think I'll skip that section!!!


a) There's some nice scenery.
b) It's the next section.
c) I live right under the place.

I wouldn't call it "crowded", but I've lived in Chicago and Brooklyn. The permit system doesn't scare me, and the bears around here are more like giant cuddly cockroaches.


one night I actually gave up my spot to a thru so I could get some quiet, restful sleep in my tent. I also like the privacy.
The thought did occur to me. I'll be doing a couple of long days and really hate being kept up at night. I remember being placed next to the kitchen at Laughing Heart hostel was no fun. In 2010 between Springer and Fontana, I stayed in a shelter exactly once, and that's because I was too tired to set up my tent.

JumpMaster Blaster
05-28-2016, 08:33
Need to rename this thread!!

Any reason to hike thru GSNP at all?

Permit, reservations, crowds and overcrowded rat boxes where you are required to stay, no dogs, man eating bears, litter......need I say more....think I'll skip that section!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Meh, it really wasn't that bad. The shelters in the Smokies, compared to 99% of the other shelters I've passed on the AT, are palatial.

saltysack
05-28-2016, 10:46
Meh, it really wasn't that bad. The shelters in the Smokies, compared to 99% of the other shelters I've passed on the AT, are palatial.

I was only kidding....I always hike with my pup so I've skipped the smokies.....if I have to get permit I may as well get a $350 flight and head west!!!! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!


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Beanstalk
05-31-2016, 04:05
Ay.....
top of the morning.....in this age of rapidly expanding Lyme disease, I think it is wise to sleep in a tent all the time..... it would be far better to carry a few extra pounds than to risk contracting such a life ruining condition....
B

Greenlight
05-31-2016, 06:42
You should immediately repent of your foolish idea, or prepare to be inundated with critical comments from the WB judicial team.

That was my dilemma when I hiked there a couple months ago. Yes, I had my reservation paperwork with me. Yes, the shelter was full...

Did I really want to be "that guy?"

Everyone in the shelter was so super nice (hikers in general?) they made room on the sleeping platforms for my son and I. It was cozy but not super cramped. But nobody wanted to be outside, it was cold and super windy that night.

Don't be that guy. Take some sort of shelter or just kindly ask if there is enough room on the platform to squeeze one more person in.

CamelMan
05-31-2016, 08:51
Don't be that guy. Take some sort of shelter or just kindly ask if there is enough room on the platform to squeeze one more person in.

Well, I'm that guy who made reservations, in an area where reservations are required so that you don't need a tent. The people who displace me without reservations are the ones who are being a-holes. Why should I have to kindly ask a-holes to yield the spot that I took the trouble to reserve ahead of time, following the rules? Outside of the Smokies, I would always bring a tent and never sleep in a shelter, because I don't like to.

The only reason I should need a tent is if I don't make it from SB to Hot Springs in one day. But I don't want to be put in a position where I have to be assertive because some a-hole stole my spot in a shelter, either. They are the ones who should have brought a tent.

TNhiker
05-31-2016, 10:32
Ay.....
top of the morning.....in this age of rapidly expanding Lyme disease, I think it is wise to sleep in a tent all the time..... it would be far better to carry a few extra pounds than to risk contracting such a life ruining condition....
B





but, with this mentality, one should not be hiking at all.........

after all, ticks will get on to ya even when you're not sleeping......

rocketsocks
05-31-2016, 11:50
but, with this mentality, one should not be hiking at all.........

after all, ticks will get on to ya even when you're not sleeping......True, but I can't even tell ya how many times I felt some tickle or irritating rub that turned out to be a tick crawling it's way up on its life sucking journey...more times than I've been impaled by thier little serrated knives.

Connie
05-31-2016, 11:55
If you do not like to carry a tent, a tarp and bivy may be to your liking: the bivy keeps off the "crawlies".

Right now, a Deschutes Plus tarp is in the forum For Sale.

It has the bug netting. If you prefer a bivy, he has a bivy For Sale.

illabelle
05-31-2016, 12:00
Well, I'm that guy who made reservations, in an area where reservations are required so that you don't need a tent. The people who displace me without reservations are the ones who are being a-holes. Why should I have to kindly ask a-holes to yield the spot that I took the trouble to reserve ahead of time, following the rules? Outside of the Smokies, I would always bring a tent and never sleep in a shelter, because I don't like to.

The only reason I should need a tent is if I don't make it from SB to Hot Springs in one day. But I don't want to be put in a position where I have to be assertive because some a-hole stole my spot in a shelter, either. They are the ones who should have brought a tent.

When I made reservations by phone for our 2012 hike from Clingman's Dome to Fontana, campsite 113 was full, so we were using only shelters. The ranger said, that's good, now you don't have to bring a tent. I corrected him, that we still have to bring one because of all the reasons stated earlier, and then he backpedaled and agreed. No, it's not fair if somebody gets your spot, but if they're not cooperative, do you really wanna get in a pissing contest with them?

Tipi Walter
05-31-2016, 12:13
Need to rename this thread!!

Any reason to hike thru GSNP at all?

Permit, reservations, crowds and overcrowded rat boxes where you are required to stay, no dogs, man eating bears, litter......need I say more....think I'll skip that section!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Echoing the comments of others---fully agree with the above quote. Of course the Smokies has some wonderful backcountry with hundreds of miles of other trails, I'd just avoid the AT thru the park as you would avoid drinking raccoon pee or sleeping with a copperhead.

Then again I'd avoid the Smokies at all costs due to their nanny-state Sleep Only Here policy (with suitable reservations) and their insistence on paying cash money to hump a pack up mountains and sleep every night. There are hundreds of miles of backpacking trails around the Park that do not require reservations or cash.

CamelMan
05-31-2016, 20:56
No, it's not fair if somebody gets your spot, but if they're not cooperative, do you really wanna get in a pissing contest with them?

No.... no upper body strength. :(

JumpMaster Blaster
06-02-2016, 21:11
Echoing the comments of others---fully agree with the above quote. Of course the Smokies has some wonderful backcountry with hundreds of miles of other trails, I'd just avoid the AT thru the park as you would avoid drinking raccoon pee or sleeping with a copperhead.

Then again I'd avoid the Smokies at all costs due to their nanny-state Sleep Only Here policy (with suitable reservations) and their insistence on paying cash money to hump a pack up mountains and sleep every night. There are hundreds of miles of backpacking trails around the Park that do not require reservations or cash.

The Smokies used to be my bete-noire, because 1)I want to section hike the entire AT (primarily), and that big dumb chunk between Fontana & Davenport Gap wasn't going anywhere. It does nothing for my OCD to not have continuous sections done, but I digress, 2) because I hate sleeping in shelters with a passion, and 3) rules and permits and yakety yak.

My mind has been changed however. I've seen some things that have convinced me it's not all that bad. Heck, I have to pay $15 to camp at my nearest state park, and it isn't all that great. But places like that have to be maintained. I will say that the AT through the Smokies was pretty damn well maintained, and I appreciate that. It's a national park for heaven's sake (and a pretty ecologically diverse one too). I don't have a problem supporting that.

So my previous stance on the Smokies has changed. If a person really hates rules like that, there are another 2,000 miles of the AT outside National Parks that they're free to roam. There are dozens of trails in the Smokies, and maybe one day I'll go explore some of them, but that's not high on my priority list.

Venchka
06-02-2016, 21:20
...if I have to get permit I may as well get a $350 flight and head west!!!! That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!


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You are on a roll. That's the spirit.

Wayne

CamelMan
06-03-2016, 09:44
It does nothing for my OCD to not have continuous sections done, but I digress, 2) because I hate sleeping in shelters with a passion, and 3) rules and permits and yakety yak.

I could have just done it in bits and pieces on loop hikes, but I'd rather hike the whole section in one piece. I've only sheltered once, in the off season, and it wasn't bad. I did bring a tent though because the next night was at a lower elevation campsite. Either way, at $4 a night it's an incredible bargain, it's a beautiful place. The horses need diapers, though, but I suppose that's much more a problem on the other trails than the AT. If you're ever in the area, a visit to Mt. Leconte is worth it, including Cliff Tops and Myrtle Point.

CamelMan
06-08-2016, 17:02
Well, I made it as far as Standing Bear. You guys were right, I couldn't have slept without my tent! Since I carry the poles and stakes separately, it made an excellent firm pillow.

Ladyofthewoods
06-08-2016, 17:14
Speaking as a Scout leader, the Scouts should be in tents, and leave the shelters for others.

Oh, my. It must depend on the Scout leader. Been at too many with shelters and all surrounding space filled.