View Full Version : Trail runners in the snow?
I have read a lot in regards to proper footwear during a through hike the Appalachian Trail. It seems most people are using trail runners now. They also start in March. Is it practical for trail runners in March? I imagine there is still snow in the mountains. Will your feet not freeze so badly you may regret not wearing boots? Do you bring an extra pair of trail runners? Do they dry overnight no matter how cold it is? I want to make sure I purchased the proper footwear.
There is no such thing as proper footwear, just trade offs. You will find that people will take the full spectrum of footwear from sandals to full hiking boots. I used to do a lot of early season hiking on the southern half of the AT and spent a lot of time in various snow and ice conditions. Having cold feet in trail runners wasn't a problem for me though I don't stop and sit at all during the day. non waterproof trail runners will get wet sooner but they will dry quicker than alternatives. They are also lighter which makes a huge difference in hiking comfort. One trick that some hikers use is waterproofish socks. You can wear a liner sock, waterproofish sock then a light sock on the outside. While your feet will be damp, they will be warm and damp. I have done some long days with this setup and this is my go to setup in sloppy conditions.
Snowleopard
06-04-2016, 10:08
I prefer real boots in cold and snow. What I've been using lately are NEOS waterproof overshoes with a felt liner rather than shoe inside. You can also use trail runners inside the NEOS.
If you use just trail runners in the cold, I'd recommend getting a larger size so you can wear thicker wool socks or two pairs of wool socks. Bring Goretex socks: https://www.campmor.com/c/rocky-gore-tex-socks
This is a good question and I'm interested in reading everyone's opinion on the subject. All I can say is that maybe I'm a wimp, or maybe it's because I'm originally from a very cold part of the country, but I like dry feet. But if you do wear boots you better move heaven and earth to make sure your feet stay dry. Wet boots can blister your feet severely; sometimes in a very short period of time. Wet trail runners on the other hand are much softer and have some stretch, so blistering is usually reduced in a properly fitted trail shoe. In any case deal with blisters quickly.
My experience with trails runners in snow haven't been very good, but its because I'm in Maine. I'll take some uninsulated, lightweight boots with knee high gaitors. I can hike down to sub-zero temps as long as I keep moving and change my socks if they get wet or damp. If I stop for more than a few minutes, my feet get cold, quickly. I do have some Salomon boots insulated with Aerogel that are light, but they get too warm.
nsherry61
06-04-2016, 11:05
I spend a lot of time this last winter hiking in NH in the White Mountains (including Mt. Washington in slightly sub-zero weather) in trail runners (and often microspikes), with a friend that wore winter hiking boots, and on occasion plastic climbing boots with crampons. I never once had cold or blistered feet while my friend often had overheated, sweaty and on occasion, blistering feet.
This winter was all day hiking for me, so I didn't worry about having to dry out wet shoes, so I often wore my low-top gortex-lined trail runners (with ankle high gaiters). When below 10 degrees I use a vapor barrier liner (read bread bag or grocery store vegetable bag) outside my liner socks and inside a thicker pair of warm wool socks. This was too warm if it was above 10 degrees, so I most often didn't use vapor barriers at all.
In the past, for longer multi-day trips, unless I am on skis and using ski boots, I generally use regular breathable (not waterproof) trail runners with a layering system that is foot, liner sock, vapor barrier, insulating sock, water proof sock, shoe, in that order. Again, plenty warm down to about -10 degrees. If it is colder than about -10 F, I need to make sure I keep moving or I need more serious footwear.
Traveler
06-04-2016, 12:37
I have read a lot in regards to proper footwear during a through hike the Appalachian Trail. It seems most people are using trail runners now. They also start in March. Is it practical for trail runners in March? I imagine there is still snow in the mountains. Will your feet not freeze so badly you may regret not wearing boots? Do you bring an extra pair of trail runners? Do they dry overnight no matter how cold it is? I want to make sure I purchased the proper footwear.
There is a lot of difference between trail runners and trail shoes, though they can look the same with a casual look. A lot of folks use them for all seasons. I don't, preferring boots (Asolo TPS 520s) when the temperature goes below 20 degrees and/or snow is on the ground that will get the shoe wet walking through it. Good boots will take you a lot farther than trail runners by about a 3-4 to 1 ratio, with about 500 miles the shoes will tend to lose their gripping power and footing will get less confident and the "ride" goes out of them to the point they will need replacement.
I've had wet feet before in both trail shoes and boots and didn't find either of them particularly helpful preventing blisters, though the last soaking I got in the trail shoes my toes blistered up pretty good. I've not had any blistering issues in the 520s with 3 or so pairs I have used over the years (approximately 1500 miles on each). My experience may be different than others, but I tend to like the heavier footgear in difficult terrain.
Consider things more comprehensively about what's going on with your feet. Several things to address. They can be addressed systematically as if your feet comprise a system with the shoe/trail runner(mid or low cut)/boot, etc only being one component in the system. The shoe doesn't have to address everything. For example, for an early march NOBO AT start WP or Non WP low cut trail runners in a 1/2 size larger than normal can be used pairing it with insulated WP socks, eVent, Neo Shell, or Schoeller Dynamic stretchy shortie gaiters. Put your pants on over that for snow. The pants might even be convertibles. Look for trail runners that have tread designed for increased traction in sloppy wet snowy and possibly icy conditions. Look for a tread that doesn't hold the snow and ice though. Bring along a separate pr of merino socks for mild conditions. Under this scenario less need for WP trail runners although how much faster Non WP trail runners verse WP trail runners of the same model will dry in the often multiple day coldness of march is debatable in my mind. Send the gaiters and WP socks home when risk of snow is over possibly switching to two pr of merino or other socks. Could send home the convertibles and just rock shorts at this point too.
conventional winter footwear would be goretex leather boots - as others have said they do not dry well and many get blistering when using them for distance hiking
I prefer mesh running shoes year around but at times compromise using trail runners for durability ( less $$ per mile )
- for wet slushy snow I use seal skin socks (for insulation ), for rain/ dry snow just liners and wool socks
- regardless of footwear, when hiking in wet conditions plan on wet feet and you will not be disappointed
Tipi Walter
06-04-2016, 15:56
This is a good question and I'm interested in reading everyone's opinion on the subject. All I can say is that maybe I'm a wimp, or maybe it's because I'm originally from a very cold part of the country, but I like dry feet. But if you do wear boots you better move heaven and earth to make sure your feet stay dry.
I have spent most of my life backpacking in substandard tennis shoes, sneakers, converse things, once birkenstocks, old Nike Approach and Ascent boots, Vasque Sundowners, Sears hunting boots, Hi Tec boots, sandals (ouch), crocs, Chippewa 40 belows, Limmer lightweights, beaucoup Asolos (FSN 95s, Fugitives, pitiful 520s), New Balance toys, white Nike tennis shoes from 1975, combat green jungle boots, sorel pack boots---You name it.
Roys is correct---I like dry feet in the winter. Otherwise it really doesn't matter, so go ahead and wear your minimal tread running shoes or other lightweight stuff. But beware---I have seen numerous backpackers ahead of me in trail runners slip and slide on the trail and in mud. Lug soles make all the difference sometimes, esp when carrying substantial loads.
And in the winter? Go with a goretex boot and do everything in your power to keep your feet and socks dry. The biggest drawback to trail runners and other fabric or mesh low quarter shoes is their ability to let in the slightest amount of water and immediately soaked your all important socks.
In the Southeast where I backpack, 85% of all creek crossings are from 1 inches deep to 5 inches deep. A good goretex boot will allow you to wade these depths without getting your socks wet. Now try these crossings in your trail runners. Remember, you gotta keep your socks dry at all costs, especially at 10F or 0F.
My current winter boot is a Zamberlan Vioz in gtx and it works perfectly---it has all the advantages of a rubber pack boot without the bulky clunkiness. I spent two long trips in deep wet snow and these things never got soaked or froze solid or allowed my socks to get wet. All Hail Zs etc etc.
My go-to rest of the year boot is Asolo Fugitives in gtx---they are disposable and last me about a year before replacement---and they are available in Wide sizes.
Tipi Walter
06-04-2016, 16:21
When my old hunting boots died in the field---the steel shank came out as the sole delaminated---I nursed them along until the end of the trip and went to my Dad's old shoe closet and pulled out a pair of these old 1975 Nikes which I wore on my next trip---in 2003. I pulled this pic off the interwad---
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2423/3887142357_b1cc32705a_z.jpg?zz=1
Backpacking shoes?? Sure, why not. They felt very weird like I was always playing a round of golf and I hate golf.
nsherry61
06-04-2016, 17:00
In other words you can probably make nearly anything work (with its particular accepted advantages and disadvantages). So, wear what you darn well please and whatever you find works best for you. . . and, make sure you figure out how to keep your feet warm in whatever shoe you are wearing.
Tipi Walter
06-04-2016, 17:19
In other words you can probably make nearly anything work (with its particular accepted advantages and disadvantages). So, wear what you darn well please and whatever you find works best for you. . . and, make sure you figure out how to keep your feet warm in whatever shoe you are wearing.
True, dirtbaggers can hike barefoot if desired, or use jungle boots or desert boots or even crocs. In the old days we were all dirt poor and got our backpacking shoes/boots at goodwill stores or maybe Walmart if you had a little cash. My walmart boots looked excellent on the shelf but pronated so badly after a few weeks in the field that they were useless.
Once our dumpster diving years were over we investigated more expensive options like Vasque and Nike boots and even Limmers. Otherwise anything will work as you say. I even backpacked in slick soled cowboys once and fell on my butt the first time I hiked down a wet grassy slope. Pieces O crap.
I used trail runners hiking through the Smokies in early April with plenty of snow. I just wore wool socks and got wet. I found that as long as I was moving my feet would stay warm. I carried, but didn't use some plastic newspaper bags to slip over my feet. Today I might try some eVent socks.
garlic08
06-04-2016, 17:54
Another way to make trail runners work in wet snow is to use the "bagtex" trick. Carry a couple extra plastic bread bags and put them over your socks, inside the shoes. A plastic grocery bag cut in half vertically (toes in the bottom corners) works in a pinch. If you need to do that for more than a few hours, pay close attention to your skin condition, and get familiar with the concept of skin maceration. I wouldn't do this for an expedition in winter, but for a three season thru hiker who is otherwise competent and confident in facing the conditions, it's a tool to put in the box. It worked for me getting over the Smokies in a late-April blizzard on my thru hike.
As an aside, I've noticed an increase in foot warmth on deep winter hikes (snowshoeing or "barefoot") in hiking shoes (not trail runners) vs boots. With excellent socks and fit, I find the increased foot and ankle motion promotes better blood flow and I stay warmer. Less fatigue leads to staying warmer, too. On a trip up 13,300' James Peak on the CDT last winter, out of group of four I was the only one in trail shoes and the only one not hunched over with foot pain on the below zero F summit in moderate wind, and I enjoyed the champagne more than the others. I wore microspikes which gave me better traction on frozen snow than the boots. I could not, however, kick steps. But I knew that wasn't critical on that hike (do it every New Years Day).
For the AT in March everyone doesn't always have an absolute need to wear boots to get warmth or dryness or wet and warm enough.:p On the AT you're not doing a whole lot of steep ice either starting a NOBO in March. It's going to largely be east coast "wet snow." With foot placement consciousness, slowing down a bit where conditions necessitate, and good choice of exact route without hauling the kitchen sink many will be OK. If you do get wet feet take care of them appropriately and keep them warm. Hike long enough you'll eventually get wet feet. Accept it.
Ezekiel bread on sale at Trader Joes. Double duty. Good bread, happy stomach, and happy feet. :D
cliffordbarnabus
06-04-2016, 21:58
i did my 2.7 thru's of the AT and 1 thru of PCT in synthetic tennis shoes. get wet and cold easily? yep. keep moving. you're fine. stop for the day. take them off. dry socks. you're still fine.
what gets wet and cold easily also gets warm and dry more easily than the skin of dead animals.
Tipi Walter
06-05-2016, 18:20
For the AT in March everyone doesn't always have an absolute need to wear boots to get warmth or dryness or wet and warm enough.:p On the AT you're not doing a whole lot of steep ice either starting a NOBO in March. It's going to largely be east coast "wet snow." With foot placement consciousness, slowing down a bit where conditions necessitate, and good choice of exact route without hauling the kitchen sink many will be OK. If you do get wet feet take care of them appropriately and keep them warm. Hike long enough you'll eventually get wet feet. Accept it.
Ezekiel bread on sale at Trader Joes. Double duty. Good bread, happy stomach, and happy feet. :D
I love my Ezekiel bread as it's always part of my standard load on every trip. On my last trip I took 3 loaves but had to toss half of Loaf #3 on Day 20 due to white mold.
March backpacking for me includes all of my standard winter items including Kahtoola microspikes. Above 5,000 feet we get some good depths and some great icy sections on steep rocky ups and downs so the spikes come in handy.
i did my 2.7 thru's of the AT and 1 thru of PCT in synthetic tennis shoes. get wet and cold easily? yep. keep moving. you're fine. stop for the day. take them off. dry socks. you're still fine.
what gets wet and cold easily also gets warm and dry more easily than the skin of dead animals.
I backpacked the BMT last April with a friend and we hiked for many days in a typical TN/NC April rainstorm at 40F. It sucked. My friend wore trail runners and had cold feet and wanted to do all in her power to avoid deep trail pools and side creeks which I hiked thru without a thought in my gtx boots. She attempted to keep her feet dry by doing intricate detours and slippery rock hoppings just so she could keep her feet warmer and her socks dry. (She wore gaiters). It didn't work.
And sometimes when it's cold you don't want to hike all day in wet socks. Ergo the boots.
It reminds me of a guy backpacking the BMT several years ago who used trail runners during a surprise cold snap. See his trip report below. Point is, he had to bail to a motel to get his feet back to normal.
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=12108 (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=121084)
oliviamariana
06-05-2016, 18:47
I even backpacked in slick soled cowboys once and fell on my butt the first time I hiked down a wet grassy slope. Pieces O crap.
try kicking your way out of stirrups while wearing a nice grippy pair of hiking boots though!
I've been all over the map on this. Years ago I wore leather boots. Then switched to high fabric boots. Then running shoes, and then trail runners. I loved the lightness of the light, low fabric boots.
Last summer I did several hikes in very wet and muddy conditions and as a result I've switched back to high fabric boots with GoreTex liners (Vasque GTx). So far so good. They worked well in the White Mountains this spring, over ice, occasional snow, stream crossings, and mud. They do slow me down a bit, they're definitely not as light as trail runners.
A few days ago I wore them on a short stretch of AT in central MA. One thru-hiker who arrived at the shelter late complained of muddy trail. My buddy and I tried to suppress laughter. The trail was pristine compared to the muck we trudged through on the LT and on the Monadnock-Sunapee Trail last summer. In any case, the GTX boots handled it easily and I hardly noticed the mud.
When my old hunting boots died in the field---the steel shank came out as the sole delaminated---I nursed them along until the end of the trip and went to my Dad's old shoe closet and pulled out a pair of these old 1975 Nikes which I wore on my next trip---in 2003. I pulled this pic off the interwad---
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2423/3887142357_b1cc32705a_z.jpg?zz=1
Backpacking shoes?? Sure, why not. They felt very weird like I was always playing a round of golf and I hate golf.
So, Nike makes dildos too.
fiddlehead
06-05-2016, 23:38
I took this picture of our Sherpa at 20,000' in the Himalaya about 12 years ago. (actually this was about 19,700' as we weren't to the top yet)
He had double leather boots on.
I wore trail runners.
My feet didn't get cold that day35111, but mainly that's because I didn't stop much.
Keep moving if your feet are getting cold.
If you can't hike 5-7 hours in a row without stopping, I don't think I'd try it.
or at least carry an extra pair or two of wool or fleece socks to put on when you stop.
I prefer real boots in cold and snow. What I've been using lately are NEOS waterproof overshoes with a felt liner rather than shoe inside. You can also use trail runners inside the NEOS.
If you use just trail runners in the cold, I'd recommend getting a larger size so you can wear thicker wool socks or two pairs of wool socks. Bring Goretex socks: https://www.campmor.com/c/rocky-gore-tex-socks
+1 for a thru hike I would do the oversized trail runners with goretex socks, because they are lighter and will dry "relatively quickly"; for a weekend winter backpack in snow prefer Asolo leather boots.
I found all the above comments very informative.
MuddyWaters
10-10-2017, 13:19
A few miles here and there in moderate temps ..no problem
Deep winter..no
I've been looking into these https://www.lasportiva.com/en/crossover-20-gtx
cmoulder
10-10-2017, 19:04
Depends on how deep the snow... 3-4" no problem with trail runners (Cascadia GTX with Sparkplug gaiters) but when it's over 5" deep I am probably going to be wearing Vasque Snowblimes.
(Departure date early March)
Need advice...
I have gortex boots but find them heavy, cumbersome, hot and sweaty. Albeit they haven't been broken in, and have virtues, but they also hinder the blood flow around my ankles and hurt. After scratching around I found a nice pair of nippy non-gortex trail runners. I'm very unfamiliar with snow and find myself in a quadrum - hence my long blurb here. The coin toss leads towards the latter as I have reasonably waterproof gaiters, good liners and good wool socks, and want to get thin 100% waterproof socks (warmth rated 2/5) to put in-between those two. Under the Columbia shoe inserts I want to put a reflective foil to bounce heat upwards. (an idea I saw on the internet) At the moment in my tropical hideout, I feel extremely comfortable with this setup.
I carry lots of socks. All are awesome. 1 pair Mohair for sleeping in, 2 pairs of mid-weight Bridgedale merino wool socks with 2 pairs of their liners, 2 pairs Falke Drynamix liners. 1 pair of Bridgedale summit socks, and a pair of Versus cycling socks. My pack is lightweight so carrying many dry socks instead of boots is possible.
If my thinking is convoluted and dodgy, please point out my flaws before I headhunt some thin waterproof socks
fiddlehead
10-11-2017, 07:19
40594 Here's a picture of me minutes before my summit of 20,000' Dhampus peak in the Himalaya.
I wore Montrail "Vitesse" Trail runners.
They were pretty heavy duty for trail runners and unfortunately they don't make them anymore.
Too good.
garlic08
10-11-2017, 08:08
Need advice...
I have gortex boots but find them heavy, cumbersome, hot and sweaty. Albeit they haven't been broken in, and have virtues, but they also hinder the blood flow around my ankles and hurt. After scratching around I found a nice pair of nippy non-gortex trail runners. I'm very unfamiliar with snow and find myself in a quadrum - hence my long blurb here. The coin toss leads towards the latter as I have reasonably waterproof gaiters, good liners and good wool socks, and want to get thin 100% waterproof socks (warmth rated 2/5) to put in-between those two. Under the Columbia shoe inserts I want to put a reflective foil to bounce heat upwards. (an idea I saw on the internet) At the moment in my tropical hideout, I feel extremely comfortable with this setup.
I carry lots of socks. All are awesome. 1 pair Mohair for sleeping in, 2 pairs of mid-weight Bridgedale merino wool socks with 2 pairs of their liners, 2 pairs Falke Drynamix liners. 1 pair of Bridgedale summit socks, and a pair of Versus cycling socks. My pack is lightweight so carrying many dry socks instead of boots is possible.
If my thinking is convoluted and dodgy, please point out my flaws before I headhunt some thin waterproof socks
Instead of buying waterproof socks, you can try the "Bagtex" trick noted above, with the attendant caution about maceration (which applies to any waterproof footwear).
The foil's not a bad idea, can't see where that would hurt, except if it bunches up (try it under the removable insole?). Don't rely on it to keep you magically warm if you're walking in cold, melting snow.
I think the critical component is fit. If things are too tight, there are problems. If things are too loose, there are problems.
It's also critical to have the experience to keep things dry, to know how to dry out sweaty gear overnight in a cold and humid conditions, etc. Either that or you can carry lots of socks.
Thanks! I've just returned with the car foil and will cut it out and see how things go. It's quite tough and light. Will do a few. If they don't provide some extra warmth, I can always throw them away or pretend. I'll get a few loaves of bread tomorrow and go the Bagtex route. Seems simple enough.
Runner2017
10-11-2017, 10:39
The truth is your feet are going to get wet no matter what kind of shoes or socks you wear if you hike long enough. To learn to deal with your wet feet is far better. Andrew Skurka has advice on the topic.
https://andrewskurka.com/2016/gear-list-backpacking-hiking-foot-care-kit-blisters-maceration/
Slo-go'en
10-11-2017, 12:31
(Departure date early March)
I have gortex boots but find them heavy, cumbersome, hot and sweaty. Albeit they haven't been broken in, and have virtues, but they also hinder the blood flow around my ankles and hurt.
Get a pair which fit better. They maybe hot and sweaty in South Africa, but your going into a radically different climate. One which is cold and wet and muddy, possibly for 3 months. "trail runners dry quicker" - not if it rains for days and your walking in mud for weeks. Hiking in sopping wet boots and socks for days is a good way to get blisters and then to get those blisters infected.
Gortex boots still need to be waterproofed to keep the shell from absorbing too much water, especially if their mostly leather. The only time my gortex boots have gotten more then a little damp inside is in heavy rain when the water runs down my leg or when stepping in water which come up over the top of the boot. Unfortunately the stitching on the gortex liner will eventually start to blow out and leak. But by then your due for a new pair of boots anyway.
Tipi Walter
10-11-2017, 12:49
Get a pair which fit better. They maybe hot and sweaty in South Africa, but your going into a radically different climate. One which is cold and wet and muddy, possibly for 3 months. "trail runners dry quicker" - not if it rains for days and your walking in mud for weeks. Hiking in sopping wet boots and socks for days is a good way to get blisters and then to get those blisters infected.
Gortex boots still need to be waterproofed to keep the shell from absorbing too much water, especially if their mostly leather. The only time my gortex boots have gotten more then a little damp inside is in heavy rain when the water runs down my leg or when stepping in water which come up over the top of the boot. Unfortunately the stitching on the gortex liner will eventually start to blow out and leak. But by then your due for a new pair of boots anyway.
I agree. Is it not too much to ask that our footwear keeps our feet dry in a wide variety of scenarios? I use GTX boots exclusively because little things saturate fabric boots or shoes. Walk thru a grassy field of dew in your standard fabric "tennis shoes" and your socks are soaked. Walk thru 4 inches of slush and your socks are soaked. Skip thru a low 3 inch creek and your socks are soaked.
Not a problem in summer of course unless you don't mind carrying the extra weight of soaked shoes and socks. I usually use my boots for all water crossings in the summer---if I have more than 2 or 3 crossings in a row. Otherwise its crocs. But these little soakings as mentioned above should not happen with hiking footwear. Because then you're backpacking in wet socks every time you reach a puddle or a low creek or wet dew---which means 50% more chance of blisters. And heavier foot gear.
I gave up on Goretex boots many years ago, mainly because this is too much money for too short life. The waterproof-ness worked only for really short time. After this time, the boots got similar wet than normal boots, but dried out slower, and were more sweaty in warm/humid environment.
Had a long period where I used trailrunners or similar sport shoes, but again gave up these due to too short lifespan, plus, in the desert I had too much debris falling in. And the odor escalated too.
Now I'm using rather traditional leather boots, or leather/canvas boots (built as UNO service boots).
They dry way faster than pure leather boots (but not as fast as trailrunners), but honestly I don't care too much about wet shoes - when walking in wet envrionment I use square socks made from a thrash bag, which are very light, cheap and easy to make, and keep my socks dry and the feet warm.
BTW, the only way to dry boots in the outdoors is, hiking them dry. Putting them somewhere in the tent vestibule during the night helps zero to dry them.
Honestly, I would not like to risk my toes to get frozen when hiking in snow/slush for days.
True, dirtbaggers can hike barefoot if desired, or use jungle boots or desert boots or even crocs. In the old days we were all dirt poor and got our backpacking shoes/boots at goodwill stores or maybe Walmart if you had a little cash. My walmart boots looked excellent on the shelf but pronated so badly after a few weeks in the field that they were useless.
Pieces O crap.
I had a pair of ozark trail hiking boots from walmart payed $15 for them at the time, do everything in those boots walking, working, roofing, painting, landscaping etc.. and still wear them to this day..most durable pair of footwear I've ever owned, but keep my feet dry they will not.
https://poshmark.com/listing/Ozark-Trail-hiking-boots-59af156af739bce3c600c5b1?utm_source=gdm&gdm_bottom=false&campaign_id=731570126&utm_campaign=731570126&enable_guest_buy_flow=true&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImNDEzJHp1gIVx0OGCh2zjgehEAQYCSAB EgK7nfD_BwE
My choice is between these two. Might end up starting in boots and switching over. Would much prefer starting in the lighter pair - they breathe and everything is cosy. Feet get warm but not hot and sweaty.
4059640597
Traffic Jam
10-11-2017, 16:03
The only problem I've had with trail runners in winter/snowy conditions is encountering wide-spread ice and not having microspikes. I fell at least 15 times and had to bail on my hike.
edit...this happened while hiking in GSMNP in mid-March
40599
I think my shoe choice is the Salomon X-Chase Mid CS WP Hiking Shoes. seems to be like a high top trail runner, sturdy sole like a med weight boot, but only weight 1 lb 12 oz for the pair. Will be pairing them with knee high gaiters until the trail dries up.
Added bonus of being water proof and quick drying.
I know squat about snow and ice, and might also end up viewing the trail from a lateral position. My concern is becoming the only AT hiker to ever get frostbitten toes.
Traffic Jam
10-11-2017, 17:16
I know squat about snow and ice, and might also end up viewing the trail from a lateral position. My concern is becoming the only AT hiker to ever get frostbitten toes.
You will be fine and will figure it out. :)
Traffic Jam
10-11-2017, 17:18
I think my shoe choice is the Salomon X-Chase Mid CS WP Hiking Shoes. seems to be like a high top trail runner, sturdy sole like a med weight boot, but only weight 1 lb 12 oz for the pair. Will be pairing them with knee high gaiters until the trail dries up.
Added bonus of being water proof and quick drying.
Are you also carrying rain pants? If so, you might consider wearing the rain pants and leaving the gaiters at home.
I think lateral should be horizontal. :) Yes, have Innov8 rain pants and gaiters, and even a no name brand dorky umbrella that compares to a Golite. The gaiters work well with my current shoe of choice, as does my plethora of socks. My hiking pants are Fjalraven which means they are waxed and repel water. They also dry faster than nylon. (I jumped in my bath to prove this point) I got the hem taken up so they cover the big hole in my shoe. I can afford to add more weight if need be, except if possible, not on my feet by wearing boots. BUT the hiking shoes are very breathable because of the mesh i.e. very porous. Waterproof socks or better still, plastic bread bags, seem a solution. The thought of micro spikes never crossed my mind. It will be like looking at a Faberge egg for the first time.
DownEaster
10-11-2017, 20:19
The thought of micro spikes never crossed my mind. It will be like looking at a Faberge egg for the first time.
When you make it to Maine, stop in at a tire store and look at the equivalent "footwear" for automobiles (winter use only).
40600
Traffic Jam
10-11-2017, 20:23
I think lateral should be horizontal. :) Yes, have Innov8 rain pants and gaiters, and even a no name brand dorky umbrella that compares to a Golite. The gaiters work well with my current shoe of choice, as does my plethora of socks. My hiking pants are Fjalraven which means they are waxed and repel water. They also dry faster than nylon. (I jumped in my bath to prove this point) I got the hem taken up so they cover the big hole in my shoe. I can afford to add more weight if need be, except if possible, not on my feet by wearing boots. BUT the hiking shoes are very breathable because of the mesh i.e. very porous. Waterproof socks or better still, plastic bread bags, seem a solution. The thought of micro spikes never crossed my mind. It will be like looking at a Faberge egg for the first time.
It's my understanding that a vapor barrier should only be used in very, cold temps. Andrew Skurka has a good article on VBL's.
https://andrewskurka.com/2011/vapor-barrier-liners-theory-application/
I sometimes have to wear knee-length, non-breathable booties for my job and my feet sweat profusely, even my shoes get moist.
It's interesting to compare Andrew Skurka's views on breath-ability with that of Mors Kochanski. They contradict each other.
It's 3.42 am. Off to bed I go.
jjozgrunt
10-12-2017, 00:27
I started 12th Mar this year, walking in snow as it snowed the night before, and then on the 14th in a snow storm. Wore trail runners, NB 910 v3, and because I knew my feet would get wet, I wore my possum fur/merino hiking socks. Reached the top of Blood Mt at about 8am from Lance Cr, wet feet, 6" of snow, wind gusting to 30MPH and about 25F by my watch (a lot lower with wind chill). Feet were as warm as toast. That's the first time I've worn those socks as they are to warm for most days and the last time I wore them on the trail.
I have the wool/possum beanie, neck gaiter and gloves... not the socks. That line of products is truly awesome although many possums will disagree with me. I recently ordered mohair socks from NZ to sleep in. Possibly overkill on my part as once my head touches the ground I'm gone. Unsure if I'm a hot or cold sleeper, because when I sleep... I sleep! With my current socks and fit in my shoes, I'm pretty certain I won't get blisters or have cold feet in most conditions, but certainly will have wet feet... hence my large sock collection. I'm also pretty certain that I will nose dive in icy conditions as the trail runners are not nearly as grippy as boots. I'll get some micro spikes from my nearest REI store which is about 10 000 miles away, and scratch around for some thin waterproof socks or plastic bags.
*Hey, if an Australian can walk in the snow in trail runners, then so can I :)
Forgot to mention that I cut out some car window foil reflectors as shoe inserts, and placed them under the normal insert, (idea stolen off internet) and notwithstanding my vivid imagination, my feet felt noticeably warmer as time progressed. The foil is rather tough so should last many a day.
jjozgrunt
10-12-2017, 06:23
I have the wool/possum beanie, neck gaiter and gloves... not the socks. :)
I have the gloves and beanie as well. Beanie was ok if you were stationary or at night but way too hot to walk in. Ended up buying a merino buff and also got a beanie off "King Tut" in Tesnatee Gap, trail magic stop (Nasty Gap). That was an open weave with the white blaze on it and was a far better option than the possum one to walk in.
Only wore the gloves in the morning, in the rain or snow. I started between 2.30 - 7am, unless coming out of town and saw every sunrise, so had them on most mornings. They didn't last with using poles and I needed new gloves at Franklin as there were holes in them, big holes. They are not very hard wearing, but are warm even when wet. Can't say I remember having cold hands at all.
Depends on how deep the snow... 3-4" no problem with trail runners (Cascadia GTX with Sparkplug gaiters) but when it's over 5" deep I am probably going to be wearing Vasque Snowblimes.
IMO, it's the quality of the snow as much as the depth. Slush is the worst. Dry packed powder, hardly a problem. Deep, fluffy powder - something else again.
This also relates to the temperature. Just-above-freezing is much harder to deal with than well-below freezing. My guess is that most early AT nobos will get more of the just-above-freezing condition.
Thanks for making me aware of the Snowblimes. Looks promising, lighter than my Sorels.
Very interesting to know that. Thanks.
I have rain mittens, liners, wool/possums, and two other pairs of gloves : Black Diamond and First Ascent. (the NZ gloves are currently in the post and on route) The First Ascent are the warmest, cheapest and impressively padded in all the right places to be used with hiking poles. The NZ's are for going to town and sleeping in. The Black Diamond look cool and were frikking expensive, so.....
I have a warm wool buff and another one of an undetermined fabric as well as a balaclava. As far as hats go I don't have any plans of taking one and will use the beanie when the need arises. If my nose, ears, neck and hands are warm I'm all green for go.
What clothes did you take for hiking and sleeping, and what did you wish you had left behind?
... left behind or had taken, such as an umbrella?
jjozgrunt
10-12-2017, 08:05
... left behind or had taken, such as an umbrella?
Had an umbrella, a Euroschirm hands free. Got a lot of envious looks on rainy days. I love an umbrella, take photos or access electronic gear under it, make a brew at a stop, put it over the pack while you set up the tent, etc. Clothes I had 2 merino lt wt t-shirts, and a light fleece for the day with zip off pants. Had to buy a second thermal top, at Neel Gap, for during the day though. Slept is a set of thermals with a pair of running shorts as no one wants to see me in only thermal pants. Changed that for next year to only one SS t-shirt and 1 LS t-shirt. This is my up to date gear for next year. https://lighterpack.com/r/czb3eu
You were very jacked up. I didn't see possum socks or knee braces on your list so you were cheating :) Where did you get the template from? I found a cheap, light weight umbrella by accident. Unsure how reliable it will be. Was hesitant to pack it in but think I will.
jjozgrunt
10-12-2017, 17:31
You were very jacked up. I didn't see possum socks or knee braces on your list so you were cheating :) Where did you get the template from? I found a cheap, light weight umbrella by accident. Unsure how reliable it will be. Was hesitant to pack it in but think I will.
Not taking the possum socks next year, at the moment, as I'm starting just south of Erwin on the 6th Apr. Having said that if the weather requires them I will add them. 83 grams won't break me if I do.
I used knee braces off and on but since I started walking down hill with the knees slightly bent instead of straight, I have no problems with them. It was a trick taught to me by a Exercise Physiologist. Here's the youtube video he put me onto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL8j_x5B4Nc Takes a bit of effort to retrain yourself but well worth it. Did a 800 metre steep descent in the aussie alps and my knees were fine but the quads were absolutely screaming.
Thanks. I saw that particular video a while ago and it was a good reminder to see it again. Atm my health regime involves watching lots of exercise videos and little else. I bought a hydraulic walking machine thing and some weights to inspire me. Slowly trying to force myself to look like Adonis.
LittleJimmy
10-14-2017, 17:00
Miriam and Peter Lancewood wore sandals year round, in the snow, icy water, everywhere they walked and lived in the mountains. You get used to it. She wrote a fascinating book, I'm on my third reading.
This Couple Have Spent 7 Years in the New Zealand Wilderness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHf5p19-Cys
She has lots of vitality and positive energy. She also has legs of thunder and feet that have no doubt acclimatized to cold conditions. When I put boots on my knees complain, and the prospect of getting blisters seems strong.
LittleJimmy
10-14-2017, 21:14
She has lots of vitality and positive energy. She also has legs of thunder and feet that have no doubt acclimatized to cold conditions. When I put boots on my knees complain, and the prospect of getting blisters seems strong.
She says her legs got strong from her usual 55 pound pack.