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moldy
06-08-2016, 09:17
Snow, sub zero wind chills and high winds. Pretty dangerous stuff for mid June.

rafe
06-08-2016, 09:33
Always good to be wary up there. But I'm not seeing the same dire warnings. (My ref. is wunderground.com)

Here in eastern MA it's windy and noticeable cooler than yesterday. Clear blue skies. A narrow line of thunderstorms came through yesterday evening. Supposedly that could happen again late today.

peakbagger
06-08-2016, 10:48
Folks forget it has snowed every month of the year on MT Washington. Afternoon thunderstorms are pretty much possible all summer and into fall on the ridgeline. The summits form clouds frequently after noon but the nasty weather is usually later afternoon when storms form to the west and pick up energy as they go east, once they hit the whites they blow up. Strangely in the last 10 years or so, the worst stuff tends to go slightly south of the Mt Washington summit or north of the northern presidentials. Frequently at my house just north of Madison, the big cells will go just north over the Mt Crescent range and then build up more energy and hit the AT in western Maine (Baldpates to Bemis)with Andover being a frequent target.

rafe
06-08-2016, 10:53
Frequently at my house just north of Madison, the big cells will go just north over the Mt Crescent range and then build up more energy and hit the AT in western Maine (Baldpates to Bemis)with Andover being a frequent target.

Baldpate summit is where I got caught in kickazz hailstorm, my first time there. I was busy watching the sky and ridgelines through the viewfinder of my camera. It hadn't dawned on me that I was watching a storm-in-the-making.

Was there more recently with clear blue skies and it wasn't quite as exciting, somehow.

DavidNH
06-08-2016, 11:00
On Mount Washington -- even at Lakes of Clouds hut 1000 feet below summit-- it is quite common to have windchills in the teens in June. But the next few days (June 8 through 10 or so) will be particularly brutal.

Here at the expected conditions for the Presidentials and basically all summits over 4000 feet (it will be even worse on the cone of Mt Washington!):
https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/higher-summit-forecast.aspx


DavidNH

saltysack
06-08-2016, 11:18
On Mount Washington -- even at Lakes of Clouds hut 1000 feet below summit-- it is quite common to have windchills in the teens in June. But the next few days (June 8 through 10 or so) will be particularly brutal.

Here at the expected conditions for the Presidentials and basically all summits over 4000 feet (it will be even worse on the cone of Mt Washington!):
https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/higher-summit-forecast.aspx


DavidNH

Damn looks like great weather too me...I'm sweating my arse off here it's 95* with 100% humidity....


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DavidNH
06-08-2016, 12:49
oh Saltysack.. what ever misfortune caused you to live in the south? Here in NH though it is cloudy it is nice and cool.. probably in the 60's. 95 F with 100% humidity is my definition of hell on earth!

rocketsocks
06-08-2016, 13:47
The weather in the whites this time of year is not surprising to me, now snow in Miami like what happens back in 77' I think, was a bit of a shocker.

peakbagger
06-08-2016, 15:31
What is scary sometimes on how quickly a squall line can go thru. I have been at Lake of the Crowds on a sunny day and have gotten nailed by a thrunderstorm heading down over to Edmonds path by the time I was down on Mt Clinton road is was sunny again.

saltysack
06-08-2016, 15:34
oh Saltysack.. what ever misfortune caused you to live in the south? Here in NH though it is cloudy it is nice and cool.. probably in the 60's. 95 F with 100% humidity is my definition of hell on earth!

Good question! Im trying to get the hell out!!!! All the snow birds can have this cesspool! When my kids 15 & 10 get off to college I'm hitting the road....I'm a rarity as my family has been here many generations.....I love the ocean but my heart has always been in the mountains....


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Tipi Walter
06-08-2016, 15:46
Snow, sub zero wind chills and high winds. Pretty dangerous stuff for mid June.

As others have said, it sounds excellent to me. I'd love to carry my full winter kit in June. Why not?

Intone "wind chill" and weathermen and their listeners will shudder and drop into fetal balls.

MY FINAL AND MOST OPINION ON WIND CHILL FORECASTS
It's a sort of wind chill mania with the wee'tard weathermen but it really doesn't mean anything. The wind chill gets wintery but who cares about wind chill figures? Only the home bound nonhacking couch potatoes and the fear induced audience of the wannabe weather wankers who scroll numbers thru the teleprompter and cite in hush tones the record lows for the upcoming night.

And when they mention the wind chills and wind speed on television, shift off the couch a bit and take a gander at your fellow men and women glued to the big screen, all bug eyed and gasping, clutching buttocks and tight sphincters reacting to the wind chill news, drooling by the thermostat while the pinhead putrid pontificating weathergoats wail out the usual boring litany of cold at dangerous levels with accompanying wind chills.


Bring in the pets and stay indoors. Wind chill numbers were created by home bound-by-choice invalids, self-arrested from a life outdoors, those peculiar individuals white-manized to fear nature and needing a common enemy, wind chill, to keep them believing in the modern sanctuary of the overbuilt house. They use the wind chill like a red flag, waving it in front of the army of humanity still at war with nature, as a battle cry to gird their loins and stay indoors.

Phew, sorry for the rant. Disregard all wind chill numbers!! And get your kit and go outside.

rafe
06-08-2016, 16:13
Phew, sorry for the rant. Disregard all wind chill numbers!! And get your kit and go outside.

Tipi, have you done much hiking in the White Mountains?

peakbagger
06-08-2016, 16:42
[QUOTE=saltysack;2073577]Good question! Im trying to get the hell out!!!! All the snow birds can have this cesspool! When my kids 15 & 10 get off to college I'm hitting the road....I'm a rarity as my family has been here many generations.....I love the ocean but my heart has always been in the mountains....

Come on up to Me or NH, you can pick up a house in southwest Maine and be an hour from the ocean or an hour from the whites.

Lnj
06-08-2016, 16:49
As others have said, it sounds excellent to me. I'd love to carry my full winter kit in June. Why not?

Intone "wind chill" and weathermen and their listeners will shudder and drop into fetal balls.

MY FINAL AND MOST OPINION ON WIND CHILL FORECASTS
It's a sort of wind chill mania with the wee'tard weathermen but it really doesn't mean anything. The wind chill gets wintery but who cares about wind chill figures? Only the home bound nonhacking couch potatoes and the fear induced audience of the wannabe weather wankers who scroll numbers thru the teleprompter and cite in hush tones the record lows for the upcoming night.

And when they mention the wind chills and wind speed on television, shift off the couch a bit and take a gander at your fellow men and women glued to the big screen, all bug eyed and gasping, clutching buttocks and tight sphincters reacting to the wind chill news, drooling by the thermostat while the pinhead putrid pontificating weathergoats wail out the usual boring litany of cold at dangerous levels with accompanying wind chills.


Bring in the pets and stay indoors. Wind chill numbers were created by home bound-by-choice invalids, self-arrested from a life outdoors, those peculiar individuals white-manized to fear nature and needing a common enemy, wind chill, to keep them believing in the modern sanctuary of the overbuilt house. They use the wind chill like a red flag, waving it in front of the army of humanity still at war with nature, as a battle cry to gird their loins and stay indoors.

Phew, sorry for the rant. Disregard all wind chill numbers!! And get your kit and go outside.

LOL!!! Tipi, you need to write a book. Fascinating wordsmith ability.

Tipi Walter
06-08-2016, 17:44
Tipi, have you done much hiking in the White Mountains?

Of course not, no backpacking in New Hampshire in June but how cold could it be? In June? I'm most interested in ambient temps and not wind chills. I know wind speeds can get crazy above treeline but then there's always the option of carrying a good 4 season tent with ample guyouts and plenty of stakes.

Here's a good chart of current conditions on Mt Washington---
https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/current-summit-conditions.aspx

It seems the average current windspeed is 64mph (atop the peak) with a windchill (there I go) at around 15F. Cold? Yes. Livable? Certainly, with the right gear. If they'll even let you camp on top of the mountain. Doubtful, so seek lower ground. In the treeline etc.

I've been in such winds before, several times, but usually in winter at around 0F ambients. Several times I had to put rocks on all my tent pegs to keep them in the ground. One time on a 5,300 hill in NC the wind bent one of my Hilleberg tent poles. Another time on Wilburn Ridge in Mt Rogers I had to whittle 4 extra tent pegs for my 21-stake tent to keep it from blowing away in a hell storm. It's all part of Miss Nature's fun-filled dance. And you gotta dance with the Woman who brung ya.

rafe
06-08-2016, 18:23
^^ The ambient atop Mt. Washington is 31.7F as I write this. Relative humidity 99% so that's a really raw, chilly wind. Look at the wind range over the last ten minutes: it's been as high as 78 mph, and not less than 52 mph. Visibility is less than 1/16 mile (110 yards.)

Survivable, sure, if one is fit, smart, well equipped, and able to navigate in whiteout conditions. Lose a glove or a hat or your goggles, could be trouble. Speaking for myself, I'd wait for a better day. Different folks have different tolerances for that sort of weather.

Pitching a tent up on the Presi ridge or Franconia ridge would be problematic...

Hikingjim
06-09-2016, 00:04
No doubt you could prepare yourself for the conditions. But winter and winter hiking is over for the year in my books, and I'd sooner wait it out in town or in the trees.

I'm sure there will be a couple people that will go out highly unprepared, and be at great risk of joining the large numbers that have died on washington and other areas in the whites.

peakbagger
06-09-2016, 05:50
There was a rescue yesterday, hurricane force winds and snow.

psyculman
06-09-2016, 06:06
I'll be stealthing on the side of Madison, this weekend, and yes, it's not the first time, and yes I will be prepared. The weather is part of the adventure. I'll wave in your direction, peakbagger I know you are over on the other side of the valley somewhere. :)

DavidNH
06-09-2016, 08:06
This is for Tipi Walter. OK so you don't want to hear about wind chills (even if they are sub zero?). Hows about highs in the 20's winds 60-80 gusting to 100 mph (that's a hurricane!) and snow and sleet accumulating from a trace to 2 inches. That's the weather on top of Mount Washington today June 9, 2016.
Those ultra light types will be hurting if they try to hike in those conditions!


https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/higher-summit-forecast.aspx

Tipi Walter
06-09-2016, 08:46
This is for Tipi Walter. OK so you don't want to hear about wind chills (even if they are sub zero?). Hows about highs in the 20's winds 60-80 gusting to 100 mph (that's a hurricane!) and snow and sleet accumulating from a trace to 2 inches. That's the weather on top of Mount Washington today June 9, 2016.
Those ultra light types will be hurting if they try to hike in those conditions!


https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/higher-summit-forecast.aspx

Mt Washington gets some of the worst weather in the world and so of course conditions there will be extreme. Remember, experienced trekker Kate Matrosova died up there recently on a mere dayhike. A backpacker knows when to seek lower ground, when to set up camp, when to go higher, when to go lower, and when to hunker in. With 100mph gusts, I would listen to Miss Nature and heed her warnings and go to lower ground. Why not? I don't want to see my nice red tent get shredded.

But don't think Mt Washington is the only hell zone in the Eastern mountains. We have a mountain here in North Carolina which gets walloped frequently every month of the year, like Mt Washington. It's called Grandfather Mt. When I lived in my NC ridgetop tipi for 21 years I had a clear view of Grandfather several miles away. While Grandfather was getting it's 100+mph storms, my little 3,500 foot ridge was getting hit hard too, and several times in those long years I had windstorms in the 70mph range.

Some Grandfather Mt numbers:
** 1997---196mph windstorm.
** 2006---200mph windstorm (contested by Nat Weather Service due to wind gauge placement). A quote from a news article:

"The wind knocked out reinforced glass from the visitors center and carried it 278 yards, and chunks of a wood-and-metal window frame were blown 224 yards down the mountain."

More info---

http://www.grandfather.com/wind-gusts-at-grandfather-mountain-break-record/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_Mountain#Climate
(Check out Climate chapter and note summer temp record lows).

http://www.wataugademocrat.com/news/grandfather-winds-peak-at-mph/article_d849306d-7f2d-5362-9f29-07ac58a450c7.html

** Record low temps in May---17F, June---31F, July---38F, August---33F etc.

Point of all this? While Mt Washington might be and is the king of heartache and disaster, there are similar places out of New Hampshire in the Southeast mountains which can just as easily hand your butt to you if you want to set up camp on their peaks.

We have open balds too and you never know what will happen on these mountaintops.

rocketsocks
06-09-2016, 09:15
No doubt you could prepare yourself for the conditions. But winter and winter hiking is over for the year in my books, and I'd sooner wait it out in town or in the trees.

I'm sure there will be a couple people that will go out highly unprepared, and be at great risk of joining the large numbers that have died on washington and other areas in the whites.i hate being in the trees in high winds, I'd be lookin' for a hole in the ground.

colorado_rob
06-09-2016, 09:25
Those ultra light types will be hurting if they try to hike in those conditions!


https://www.mountwashington.org/experience-the-weather/higher-summit-forecast.aspx ]"Ultralight" is relative. If you have gear adequate for those conditions, as I do because I hike/climb in such conditions a lot (well, I'd probably be in my UL mountaineering tent in those winds, praying my anchors are bomber!), and it's the lightest available that IS adequate, then it is "ultralight".

colorado_rob
06-09-2016, 09:51
Point of all this? While Mt Washington might be and is the king of heartache and disaster, there are similar places out of New Hampshire in the Southeast mountains which can just as easily hand your butt to you if you want to set up camp on their peaks.

We have open balds too and you never know what will happen on these mountaintops.Try 17K camp on Denali in June (or July, August, or god forbid, November-May). One builds very high snow-block walls around camp. -25F (actual temp) is common, as are 100mph winds. We got slightly luckier than that.

Tipi Walter
06-09-2016, 10:51
Try 17K camp on Denali in June (or July, August, or god forbid, November-May). One builds very high snow-block walls around camp. -25F (actual temp) is common, as are 100mph winds. We got slightly luckier than that.

Great pic showing everything buttoned up. It's not called the Coldest Mountain in the World for nothing. Winter ascents are devilish and even more outlandish than Mt Washington.

Every backpacker in the Presidentials (or the mountains of NC) should read Minus 148 Degrees by Art Davidson about a 1967 winter ascent of Denali. Three of them got caught near Archdeacons Tower with 100mph winds where they spent 5 or 6 days in a tiny snow cave during the storm. A real story of survival during one of Miss Nature's better dances.

saltysack
06-09-2016, 10:55
Try 17K camp on Denali in June (or July, August, or god forbid, November-May). One builds very high snow-block walls around camp. -25F (actual temp) is common, as are 100mph winds. We got slightly luckier than that.

Great pic!


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Another Kevin
06-09-2016, 11:07
I've been caught on Moosilauke in unforecast hurricane-force winds and snow. It hit fast - we saw it coming but couldn't get down to Gorge Brook in time to avoid it. We just hunkered down as best we could in the lee of some rocks, and then went slip-sliding by flashlight (this was before most hikers carried headlamps) down the carriage road through several inches of wet snow that hadn't been there that morning.

Gotta love the 4000-footers. And I'll agree with TW that they come surprisingly far south, while still saying that he underestimates the Northeast ones. I can remember one year that Tuckerman had a 45-foot snowpack. All the snow from everywhere seems to blow into that valley.

Even though it was nice and sunny where I was standing, this sight put the fear of God in me. You can see that the left couple of peaks in the distance have their tops sticking up into the thunderstorm. The storm was heading right at me, and I was about 500 feet higher than those peaks' summits. I got off the peak in time, just barely. The heavens opened just as I arrived at a shelter. I was hearing widowmakers crashing down half the night. A couple of hammockers joined me in the shelter in the middle of the night, since the wind was too much for their tarps.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/4/3770/10031459724_d260077bc6_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ghrRu9)

Hikingjim
06-09-2016, 11:12
Great pic showing everything buttoned up. It's not called the Coldest Mountain in the World for nothing. Winter ascents are devilish and even more outlandish than Mt Washington.

Every backpacker in the Presidentials (or the mountains of NC) should read Minus 148 Degrees by Art Davidson about a 1967 winter ascent of Denali. Three of them got caught near Archdeacons Tower with 100mph winds where they spent 5 or 6 days in a tiny snow cave during the storm. A real story of survival during one of Miss Nature's better dances.

minus 148 degrees came along with me on my last hike. It didn't make the morning of 38 degrees and a bit of light wind blowing my poncho around seem too bad...
good read

Lnj
06-09-2016, 14:05
Mt Washington gets some of the worst weather in the world and so of course conditions there will be extreme. Remember, experienced trekker Kate Matrosova died up there recently on a mere dayhike. A backpacker knows when to seek lower ground, when to set up camp, when to go higher, when to go lower, and when to hunker in. With 100mph gusts, I would listen to Miss Nature and heed her warnings and go to lower ground. Why not? I don't want to see my nice red tent get shredded.

But don't think Mt Washington is the only hell zone in the Eastern mountains. We have a mountain here in North Carolina which gets walloped frequently every month of the year, like Mt Washington. It's called Grandfather Mt. When I lived in my NC ridgetop tipi for 21 years I had a clear view of Grandfather several miles away. While Grandfather was getting it's 100+mph storms, my little 3,500 foot ridge was getting hit hard too, and several times in those long years I had windstorms in the 70mph range.

Some Grandfather Mt numbers:
** 1997---196mph windstorm.
** 2006---200mph windstorm (contested by Nat Weather Service due to wind gauge placement). A quote from a news article:

"The wind knocked out reinforced glass from the visitors center and carried it 278 yards, and chunks of a wood-and-metal window frame were blown 224 yards down the mountain."

More info---

http://www.grandfather.com/wind-gusts-at-grandfather-mountain-break-record/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_Mountain#Climate
(Check out Climate chapter and note summer temp record lows).

http://www.wataugademocrat.com/news/grandfather-winds-peak-at-mph/article_d849306d-7f2d-5362-9f29-07ac58a450c7.html

** Record low temps in May---17F, June---31F, July---38F, August---33F etc.

Point of all this? While Mt Washington might be and is the king of heartache and disaster, there are similar places out of New Hampshire in the Southeast mountains which can just as easily hand your butt to you if you want to set up camp on their peaks.

We have open balds too and you never know what will happen on these mountaintops.

My husband and I hiked Grandfather Mtn. this past Halloween weekend. It was awesome but where we camped one night was scary windy. Have no idea what the mph was, but it was screaming winds. Sounded like a horror movie. Beautiful hike though. We didn't finish it, so I will be back there again sometime soon.

DavidNH
06-09-2016, 15:15
talking about Grandfather Mtn in NC reminds me.. perhaps my coldest night on my 2006 AT thru hike was my very first night.. when in my stupidty I camped on the very summit of Springer Mountain and not in the shelter just below. Man the wind howled all night and my water nearly filter froze. It was March 21!

Venchka
06-09-2016, 16:10
I'm old.
I'm slow.
I went up Grandfather Mountain day before yesterday, June 7, via the Profile and Grandfather trails.
Clear skies. Wind blowing stink about noon when I reached the Calloway Peak summit ridge and the first ladder.
Remember the old and slow part? I was also alone. I figured I was high enough for the conditions and didn't relish going up and down 4 ladders on an exposed ridge. Turned around.
I'm not convinced that was any safer than the ridge and the wind. If you don't know, the last 0.4 mile and 400 vertical feet of the Profile trail is a boulder field. Annoying going up, frightening for a flatlander coming down.
Knowing when to turn around should be #1 of the 10 Essentials.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

peakbagger
06-09-2016, 16:31
Mt Washington suffers the fact that its about 2.5 hour drive from Boston and southern NH which are on the coast of the Atlantic and on different weather track. Folks look out their window or check the local forecast the night before down south and plan a day of hiking on Mt Washington. They drive up with basic day hiking gear and start off on a fairly sheltered pair of trails (Jewell and Ammonusuc Ravine trail) they are already a few miles into the hike before the weather starts to hit them. Then the next standard error is the rationalization is that they will keep going hoping it warms/clears up or they will turn around if its gets too bad. Generally the wind is behind their back and they are going uphill so generating plenty of body heat. Mild Hypothermia can also creep in and the first thing that goes with mild hypothermia is common sense. At some point, usually after getting blown over by gust or when they are shivering, they turn around and are facing right into high winds. That's when they usually get in trouble and start making really bad decisions. On the Ammo trail they can retreat to Lake of the Crowds hut while on the Jewell they are screwed until they drop down off the ridgeline.

Tipi Walter
06-09-2016, 17:34
Even though it was nice and sunny where I was standing, this sight put the fear of God in me.


Apt sentiment. There are times it's best to double tie the boot laces and run. I call such a sky a Dark Blue Poem. I was coming down Hangover Mt at 5,000 feet a couple years ago and saw such a sight---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Backpacking-TN/i-LXpCrwJ/0/L/TRIP%20125%20126-L.jpg
I'm coming down the rugged Hangover Lead South trail and stop near the top to survey my future. Not good. Here's the normal view below---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/23-Days-with-Hootyhoo-Sgt-Rock/i-m7sNBCF/0/L/TRIP%20115%20166-L.jpg


minus 148 degrees came along with me on my last hike. It didn't make the morning of 38 degrees and a bit of light wind blowing my poncho around seem too bad...
good read

Exactly. This is the reasoning I use on all my winter trips when I take out such mountaineering books describing epic survival situations. Nothing I experience, not a -10F polar vortex, not 150 hours of a January rainstorm, not ridgetop hiking thru 3 feet of snow, not curled up shivering in a fetal ball under geese---none of it will ever come close to these mountaineering stories. Just by reading them I feel much better no matter what.



I'm not convinced that was any safer than the ridge and the wind. If you don't know, the last 0.4 mile and 400 vertical feet of the Profile trail is a boulder field. Annoying going up, frightening for a flatlander coming down.
Knowing when to turn around should be #1 of the 10 Essentials.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

Turning around is what it's all about. Not bailing from a trip but finding a place to "make my stand." A hell storm is coming---Do I want to make my stand atop an open bald at 6,000 feet? I have 6 hours to decide. 90% of the time I seek lower ground and live to hike another day.

There's an old Green Beret saying, to paraphrase: I will fight today in such a way that I survive to fight tomorrow. Excellent advice for both backpackers and warriors.

** One time I was camped atop Fodderstack Ridge in TN when my little radio pinged out an alert at 8pm---"100mph winds coming east from Nashville and into the mountains." It freaked me out enough to pack up everything and do a nighthike 2,000 feet off the mountain down to Slickrock Creek. I got a little lost in the dark but quickly set up camp near the creek and heard the howling storm way above me thru the night.

** Another time I was atop Flats Mt at 4,000 feet, a perfect place to camp, when my little radio pushed out a tornado ping and so I stood on the bald and reconfabulated a brand new plan: To get the heck out of Dodge and pull an emergency 12 mile trek to Bald River valley where I knew of a perfect campsite next to a large rock ledge that would protect me in case any trees fell during the storm.

I was camped right outside Tellico Plains in Monroe County and just missed a couple twisters---check out the incident report and map---(I was in the Green path northwest of Murhpy NC).

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/mrx/?n=tor_outbreak_map

peakbagger
06-10-2016, 14:30
http://wric.com/2016/06/10/virginian-hikers-rescued-on-the-appalachian-trail-in-new-hampshire/

Sure sounds like if the thru hiker with a tent hadn't of shown up there it may have been a body carry. It will be interesting if they get tagged for rescue costs. That stretch between Lafayette and Galehead catches a lot of folks unaware The wind from the NW really whips up the various ravines and blasts the folks on the ridgeline.

JumpMaster Blaster
06-10-2016, 19:52
Mt Washington gets some of the worst weather in the world and so of course conditions there will be extreme. Remember, experienced trekker Kate Matrosova died up there recently on a mere dayhike. A backpacker knows when to seek lower ground, when to set up camp, when to go higher, when to go lower, and when to hunker in. With 100mph gusts, I would listen to Miss Nature and heed her warnings and go to lower ground. Why not? I don't want to see my nice red tent get shredded.

But don't think Mt Washington is the only hell zone in the Eastern mountains. We have a mountain here in North Carolina which gets walloped frequently every month of the year, like Mt Washington. It's called Grandfather Mt. When I lived in my NC ridgetop tipi for 21 years I had a clear view of Grandfather several miles away. While Grandfather was getting it's 100+mph storms, my little 3,500 foot ridge was getting hit hard too, and several times in those long years I had windstorms in the 70mph range.

Some Grandfather Mt numbers:
** 1997---196mph windstorm.
** 2006---200mph windstorm (contested by Nat Weather Service due to wind gauge placement). A quote from a news article:

"The wind knocked out reinforced glass from the visitors center and carried it 278 yards, and chunks of a wood-and-metal window frame were blown 224 yards down the mountain."

More info---

http://www.grandfather.com/wind-gusts-at-grandfather-mountain-break-record/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_Mountain#Climate
(Check out Climate chapter and note summer temp record lows).

http://www.wataugademocrat.com/news/grandfather-winds-peak-at-mph/article_d849306d-7f2d-5362-9f29-07ac58a450c7.html

** Record low temps in May---17F, June---31F, July---38F, August---33F etc.

Point of all this? While Mt Washington might be and is the king of heartache and disaster, there are similar places out of New Hampshire in the Southeast mountains which can just as easily hand your butt to you if you want to set up camp on their peaks.

We have open balds too and you never know what will happen on these mountaintops.

Mt Mitchell is no joke either. Grandfather gets more tourists I'm sure, but Mt Mitchell's campground (although very nice) is on the windward side of the massif. I had all intentions of staying there one October, but when the weather turned and the wind started howling, the little voice in my head decided she didn't want to be a frozen chocolate popsicle. Even though I had a zero degree sleep system & heavy winter clothes, my tent wasn't going to protect me much & I not only packed up & headed back to my truck, I left just before the park closed. Yeah, I could have just slept in my truck, but I wasn't up for that kind of adventure.

hikernutcasey
06-11-2016, 12:03
Mt Mitchell is no joke either. Grandfather gets more tourists I'm sure, but Mt Mitchell's campground (although very nice) is on the windward side of the massif. I had all intentions of staying there one October, but when the weather turned and the wind started howling, the little voice in my head decided she didn't want to be a frozen chocolate popsicle. Even though I had a zero degree sleep system & heavy winter clothes, my tent wasn't going to protect me much & I not only packed up & headed back to my truck, I left just before the park closed. Yeah, I could have just slept in my truck, but I wasn't up for that kind of adventure.
Looks like the cold weather took this couple by surprise. This is a good example of why you should always carry a shelter with you.

http://pilotonline.com/news/nation-world/virginia/officials-unprepared-hiking-couple-saved-by-hiker-with-tent/article_462f25f7-c2ac-5a52-9057-a056ad0f7b03.html

lemon b
06-11-2016, 21:36
Never underestimate the White. Hikers die there both inexperienced and experienced every year.
1) the weather can not be forecasted at elevation. 2) My experience is the trail makers are not good.
3) the effect becomes more difficult. The resupply is not that great. 4) safe camping areas are difficult to find.
5 The AMC of which I am a member doesn't provide camping options. 5) many hurry unreasonable.

Cadenza
06-15-2016, 21:35
https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2011/Tipi-Walter-Backpacking-TN/i-LXpCrwJ/0/L/TRIP%20125%20126-L.jpg



Been there; done that. In this very spot.
Stalled in the heath bald on Hangover Lead in a storm was one of my most frightening experiences in 35 years of backpacking.
No quick bail out in either direction, on a rugged trail, with no trees, no cover, no protection.....I felt like a pinata, and had a blindfolded god repeatedly take a swing and a miss by throwing lightening bolts all around. I wouldn't volunteer to do it again.

Alleghanian Orogeny
06-16-2016, 08:14
Looks like the cold weather took this couple by surprise. This is a good example of why you should always carry a shelter with you.

http://pilotonline.com/news/nation-world/virginia/officials-unprepared-hiking-couple-saved-by-hiker-with-tent/article_462f25f7-c2ac-5a52-9057-a056ad0f7b03.html

This couple is known by their trail names Rocketman and Princess. They are attempting an AT "three-peat", having completed through-hikes in 2014 (traditional backpacking), in 2015 (slack-through with shuttle support), and this 2016 attempt is a personal vehicle-supported "key swap" slack-through flip-flop, with the Whites-Maine segment also involving two other hikers and their vehicle.

I've enjoyed following their Trailjournals in 2015 and thus far in 2016. I'm very surprised to read that either or both had not studied the forecast thoroughly and did not have adequate foul weather or bivvy gear. They normally carry substantial daypacks and regularly write of layering up and down throughout the day in order to avoid overheating and wind-chilling. They are each retired scientists and are very experienced hikers/backpackers. They have frequently rescheduled given days' segments out of concern for the weather. I wonder if the more difficult rescheduling related to the AMC hut system may have spurred them to proceed when they should have taken a zero.

Best wishes to Rocketman and Princess, a huge kudos and many thanks to their rescuers, and here's hoping they can get back out there soon.

AO

hikernutcasey
06-16-2016, 10:37
This couple is known by their trail names Rocketman and Princess. They are attempting an AT "three-peat", having completed through-hikes in 2014 (traditional backpacking), in 2015 (slack-through with shuttle support), and this 2016 attempt is a personal vehicle-supported "key swap" slack-through flip-flop, with the Whites-Maine segment also involving two other hikers and their vehicle.

I've enjoyed following their Trailjournals in 2015 and thus far in 2016. I'm very surprised to read that either or both had not studied the forecast thoroughly and did not have adequate foul weather or bivvy gear. They normally carry substantial daypacks and regularly write of layering up and down throughout the day in order to avoid overheating and wind-chilling. They are each retired scientists and are very experienced hikers/backpackers. They have frequently rescheduled given days' segments out of concern for the weather. I wonder if the more difficult rescheduling related to the AMC hut system may have spurred them to proceed when they should have taken a zero.

Best wishes to Rocketman and Princess, a huge kudos and many thanks to their rescuers, and here's hoping they can get back out there soon.

AOThanks for the update...I had no idea they were so experienced. I just assumed it was someone who didn't understand how dangerous the Whites could be and were simply ignorant of the situation. I guess that's what I get for assuming.

This is a great lesson for all of us that no matter how experienced we become, mother nature is still boss and we should never underestimate her.

Alleghanian Orogeny
06-16-2016, 11:25
Yes, in fact the prime driver for the flip-flop this year is their plan to hike the JMT in midsummer, returning to the AT to complete the 3-peat through. All of this according to their Trailjournals blog.

AO

saltysack
06-16-2016, 11:28
Thanks for the update...I had no idea they were so experienced. I just assumed it was someone who didn't understand how dangerous the Whites could be and were simply ignorant of the situation. I guess that's what I get for assuming.

This is a great lesson for all of us that no matter how experienced we become, mother nature is still boss and we should never underestimate her.

+1....me too...the definition of "assume" is that it makes an ASS out of U and ME!!!!


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Slo-go'en
06-16-2016, 15:15
Four hikers had to be rescued off the Madison Gulf trail on the 14th after getting lost at 7:30 PM. They probably though it was quicker to get to Madison that way as it looks shorter then the Osgood trail on the map. Little did they know the Madison Gulf trail is a triple black diamond trail, rarely used and poorly blazed being in the wilderness area. Not a good choice, especially since it was also a bad weather day.