"In my day!" Thru hiking has changed a bit since 2005

[RITBlake]

Finally had a chance to get out on the trail for a long weekend. Wow things have changed since our 2005 thru hike! I recall many nights at/around shelters or camp where hikers gathered around a picnic table or a fire, discussed the day, looked at maps, told jokes, stories etc...


After spending two nights with this years thru hikers this is what I observed in camp.... hikers scattered around, staring endlessly and silently into the glowing screen of their smart phones.

http://ensia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/article_measuring_rainfall_main-760x378.jpg

[RITBlake]

Also the Walk in the Woods movie was absolutely horrible. Travesty. That is all! Hello to all my old whiteblaze pals.

[greentick]

the zombie apocalypse hath spilled onto the trail

Camaraderie is one of the best parts of hiking.

[RITBlake]

the zombie apocalypse hath spilled onto the trail

Camaraderie is one of the best parts of hiking.

Agreed. With the exception of one thru hiker asking me "where's the privy?" I heard not one word spoken in camp. It was borderline weird. 10 or 11 people hunched over their phones.

[Uriah]

Finally had a chance to get out on the trail for a long weekend. Wow things have changed since our 2005 thru hike! I recall many nights at/around shelters or camp where hikers gathered around a picnic table or a fire, discussed the day, looked at maps, told jokes, stories etc...After spending two nights with this years thru hikers this is what I observed in camp....hikers scattered around, staring endlessly and silently into the glowing screen of their smart phones.

A fair observation, and one I've experienced as well. (It seems that so many are more interested in telling their tale than they are in fully living it.) But it's not entirely indicative of all trail life in this day and age. The crowd I leap-frogged throughout (in '13) went without phones for the most part, using them only to order pizza where possible (the smartest possible use of a smartphone!), and they never passed up a social gathering around the campfire or on the shore of a lake or pond. Our crowd grew because of the laughs, until it was time to split off into smaller (quieter/more respectful) factions.

[cneill13]

Not trying to be rude but maybe it was you boring them? (I am really just kidding.)

When I get into a campsite, the first thing I do is saw a pile of logs and start a fire regardless of how many miles I have hiked.

Nothing like a campfire to get people to put down their phones.

But then again, I have never hiked the entire AT so I am really not in a position to comment.

Times are always changing. That is a constant.

Carl

[Uriah]

Times are always changing. That is a constant.

Time stays the same; we're the ones changing.

[RITBlake]

Not trying to be rude but maybe it was you boring them? (I am really just kidding.)



Haha, I doubt it! Most thru hikers seemed to barely make eye contact and would just grunt if you asked them if they were in fact thru hiking. Like I get it, you're cooler than me. You're the coolest.

[cneill13]

Mellow dude. I realize you are from the Bronx but I was just kidding.

I am actually the biggest dork you will ever meet.

Carl

[RITBlake]

Mellow dude. I realize you are from the Bronx but I was just kidding.

I am actually the biggest dork you will ever meet.

Carl

Oh 100% I know man, I read it as you were kidding. All good here!

[Mags]

A fair observation, and one I've experienced as well. (It seems that so many are more interested in telling their tale than they are in fully living it.).

The Tool becomes The Experience.

One of my favorite books is Wilderness Ethics: Preserving the spirit Wildness by Guy and Laura Waterman. (http://www.pmags.com/wilderness-ethics-preserving-the-spirit-of-wildness)

From what I wrote earlier:


The book was written just as cell phones were becoming common and affordable for many people. Yet, what the Waterman’s wrote concerning cell phones could easily apply to our much more powerful, versatile and certainly more connected smart devices:

“When a new technology is applied to the backcountry, we tend to focus on its practical uses. When someone later points out a gadget’s impact on the quality of the wilderness experience, we tend to classify such ramifications “secondary” or “side effects” of the technology’s application. By taking this view, we preclude questioning the original, intended use of this technology. But in fact the changes that a new technology makes on the wilderness experience are not all secondary, but are intrinsic to the very nature of that technology . The medium is the message. The tool becomes the experience.”
(Emphasis mine)

***
More prosaically, I enjoy what Chris Townsend wrote about smart devices: (http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/2015/03/smartphones-distractions-in-hills.html)

How communication technology is used in the hills is up to the individual of course. There are no rights or wrongs. I see no reason not to check emails and social media or even make phone calls if you find it satisfying any more than I can see a reason not to read in the hills (and I have been told at times that it’s ‘wrong’ to carry a book). The key is for you to control it and not the other way round. If it becomes intrusive and you think it’s spoiling your enjoyment the answer is simple. Switch the damn thing off!

Emphasis again mine.

[adamkrz]

All true - Years past every year a group of us would do a week long hike on the A.T. - We used to sit around the fire and drink bourbon and have a great time - but since the smartphones took over it was never the same. Now it's the dog and me and I will never get him a phone.

[carouselambra]

Reminds me of a song:
Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.

[Uriah]

Now it's the dog and me and I will never get him a phone.

My dog stresses over the cost of his phone, since it's about seven times more expensive in dog money.

[colorado_rob]

Not sure where this Bronx OP dude was hiking, maybe all the way over to Manhattan? I certainly see cell phone use, but not a ton of it, battery life you know. Shelters and camps are almost just as chatty as ever, at least along the trails I've been hiking in the last 50 years or so (including the AT, JMT, CT, LT, lots of popular trails).

[capehiker]

I'm thru hiking right now. Sure, cell phones are a part of trail culture, but nowhere near the zombie-like state the OP claims. In fact, I love nights at the shelter because everyone talks and shoots the bull.

I'm curious as to what section the OP observed this?

[burger]

Two thoughts:

1) If people want to spend their time in camp staring at their phones, who are you to judge? There were plenty of nights on the AT where I just wanted to be alone in my tent reading a book. Does that make me a bad person? Also, who knows what those people were doing. Journaling? Reading a novel? Keeping up with the news? Not everything done on a smartphone is narcissistic.

2) There are still plenty of places to hike where you can't get cell reception. Pretty much the entire CDT is no-go for cell signals, as is most of the PCT I think. If you are bothered by seeing people using phones, hike somewhere where people can't.

The OP is 33. That is far too young for this sort of "the kids today" post.

[RITBlake]

Two thoughts:

1) If people want to spend their time in camp staring at their phones, who are you to judge? There were plenty of nights on the AT where I just wanted to be alone in my tent reading a book. Does that make me a bad person? Also, who knows what those people were doing. Journaling? Reading a novel? Keeping up with the news? Not everything done on a smartphone is narcissistic.

2) There are still plenty of places to hike where you can't get cell reception. Pretty much the entire CDT is no-go for cell signals, as is most of the PCT I think. If you are bothered by seeing people using phones, hike somewhere where people can't.

The OP is 33. That is far too young for this sort of "the kids today" post.

You realize there is a difference between an observation and a judgement right?

[RITBlake]

I'm thru hiking right now.

And on whiteblaze.net... :)

[Uriah]

You realize there is a difference between an observation and a judgement right?

It's human nature to judge; it's what you do with those thoughts that matters. I certainly didn't find your opening post all that critical, and it's an observation I'm sure many of us have witnessed.

[rickb]

It was borderline weird.

You can't go home again.

My guess is that before you know it, you will not even feel a need to automatically introduce yourself as a former thru hiker.

[saltysack]

I get what the OP is saying as I've got a 15 yr old daughter and a 10 yr old son......glued to the damn phone! I also find myself looking at mine while out as I have my maps, guides and books on it...damn I'm on it now typing this!! I blame it on the ultra light craze!!!! Who the hell wants to carry paper weight!!. Too heavy!!!![emoji16]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

I agree it has become a problem.


Finally had a chance to get out on the trail for a long weekend. Wow things have changed since our 2005 thru hike! I recall many nights at/around shelters or camp where hikers gathered around a picnic table or a fire, discussed the day, looked at maps, told jokes, stories etc...


After spending two nights with this years thru hikers this is what I observed in camp.... hikers scattered around, staring endlessly and silently into the glowing screen of their smart phones.


http://ensia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/article_measuring_rainfall_main-760x378.jpg


There is a growing lack of personal face to face interactions in cultures heavily relying on/addicted to? ubiquitous ultra electronic social media gadgetry like Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc on Smart Phones. Ubiquitous ultra connectivity has been defined rightly so as an addiction. RITBlake you are not the only one noticing the disconnection. Books and umpteen articles have been written about these observances. It's not just face to face social interaction skills that suffer but connection with the Natural World. What gets lost in all this supposed "connectivity" is by very definition when we connect in one way or through one media or through a system, which is often self serving, it's defining "connectivity" for us and as such we tend to or MUST ignore connectivity to other experiences. That's not getting said because what is happening is mass manipulation to "connect" as defined by someone else. In some aspects cultures are actually losing connectivity! That doesn't get said because it doesn't fit the narrative.


The Tool becomes The Experience.

One of my favorite books is Wilderness Ethics: Preserving the spirit Wildness by Guy and Laura Waterman. (http://www.pmags.com/wilderness-ethics-preserving-the-spirit-of-wildness)

From what I wrote earlier:


The book was written just as cell phones were becoming common and affordable for many people. Yet, what the Waterman’s wrote concerning cell phones could easily apply to our much more powerful, versatile and certainly more connected smart devices:

“When a new technology is applied to the backcountry, we tend to focus on its practical uses. When someone later points out a gadget’s impact on the quality of the wilderness experience, we tend to classify such ramifications “secondary” or “side effects” of the technology’s application. By taking this view, we preclude questioning the original, intended use of this technology. But in fact the changes that a new technology makes on the wilderness experience are not all secondary, but are intrinsic to the very nature of that technology . The medium is the message. The tool becomes the experience.”
(Emphasis mine)

***
More prosaically, I enjoy what Chris Townsend wrote about smart devices: (http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/2015/03/smartphones-distractions-in-hills.html)

How communication technology is used in the hills is up to the individual of course. There are no rights or wrongs. I see no reason not to check emails and social media or even make phone calls if you find it satisfying any more than I can see a reason not to read in the hills (and I have been told at times that it’s ‘wrong’ to carry a book). The key is for you to control it and not the other way round. If it becomes intrusive and you think it’s spoiling your enjoyment the answer is simple. Switch the damn thing off!

Emphasis again mine.



Unfortunately, it does seem to be an addiction. Not all people are controlling their use as Chris Townsend says we should. People are very reluctant and quite needy not willing to turn their devices off. Or, as a very wise Uncle used to say, "it's nice to have things as long as the things don't have you." It's similar to the alcoholics drunk in a bar who refuse to admit to and address the addiction making every excuse imaginable to continue in the "goodness" of their ignored addiction.

Two yrs ago atop Mt Marcy, New York's state high point, on a gorgeous fall afternoon at least 200 of the 300+ at the summit were self absorbed on their phones seeking to get reception oblivious of others, some were bumping into each other, several tripped not watching where they were going, several fell hard to the ground, many were loudly annoyed they weren't getting reception, many got irritated at others, most were very rude and acted impatiently interrupting several others who were politely and in an orderly fashion asking questions from a young obviously overwhelmed young female uniformed Docent, many were loud and intrusive of others sitting away to the side walking right through their midst as if others didn't exist. It was a scene resembling group mob Zombie activity as pictured but 200 or more. This goes beyond compulsion or habit and enters into the world of psychologically addictive behavior. I've seen it elsewhere on the west coast and in the midwest. That's a problem!

[swisscross]

Family friend tripped falling 60 feet while taking a selfie. Died.
sure wish I would have attempted a through in '95 when I actually had the time.

[MuddyWaters]

When I glance around airports while travelling. Every adult glued to phone.
At kids ball practices. Every adult glued to phone.
At restaurants. Every adult glued to phone.

Yeah, sometimes there isnt much else to do.

But, these kids have had phones glued to hands since age 11.
My daughter used to sleep with hers. Would have a nervous breakdown if it was taken away.
Still sleeps with it at 21. Still would have a nervous breakdown without it.

There is a whole generation that is , honestly, addicted to instant gratification, with attention span of a fly.
This is what prevents many from being good employees.

I know adults that spend so much time on facebook on phone at work, Im amazed they can get anything done.

[slovakiasteph]

Wow, I haven't found that to be true. I don't see many phones in camp-- I was out for 10 nights this year and the thruhikers talked, cooked dinner together around the table, chatted around the fire. The two nights I stayed in a shelter I didn't see much phone use either, even after folks had gone to bed.

[Dogwood]

Wow, I haven't found that to be true. I don't see many phones in camp-- I was out for 10 nights this year and the thruhikers talked, cooked dinner together around the table, chatted around the fire. The two nights I stayed in a shelter I didn't see much phone use either, even after folks had gone to bed.

Must have been some multi addicted people where substances or a bottle were being passed around. That's a sure way to throw a wrench into electronically addicted habits. Unless of course someone was showing porn on their device where the electronically, substance, and porn addicted could satisfy all there addictions simultaneously. Could have brought up a discussion of gear where all the gear junkies could than chime in attempting to outdo each other with who has the lightest wt kit. :D

[MuddyWaters]

Wow, I haven't found that to be true. I don't see many phones in camp-- I was out for 10 nights this year and the thruhikers talked, cooked dinner together around the table, chatted around the fire. The two nights I stayed in a shelter I didn't see much phone use either, even after folks had gone to bed.

Probably no reception.

A few yrs ago, before facebook , people just discretely and respectfully walked away and made a call.

last time I was in a shelter, I watched a young 20 something thruhiker texting inside her sleeping bag when she went to bed, and when she woke up. I could hear the buzz when she got a text, and see the light reflecting inside her bag.

[The Cleaner]

Some hikers even use their "devices" to post pictures of themselves camping in prohibited areas.:confused:

[Feral Bill]

Finally had a chance to get out on the trail for a long weekend. Wow things have changed since our 2005 thru hike! I recall many nights at/around shelters or camp where hikers gathered around a picnic table or a fire, discussed the day, looked at maps, told jokes, stories etc...


After spending two nights with this years thru hikers this is what I observed in camp.... hikers scattered around, staring endlessly and silently into the glowing screen of their smart phones.


http://ensia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/article_measuring_rainfall_main-760x378.jpg Well, that's depressing

[fiddlehead]

When I glance around airports while travelling. Every adult glued to phone.
At kids ball practices. Every adult glued to phone.
At restaurants. Every adult glued to phone.

Yeah, sometimes there isnt much else to do.

But, these kids have had phones glued to hands since age 11.
My daughter used to sleep with hers. Would have a nervous breakdown if it was taken away.
Still sleeps with it at 21. Still would have a nervous breakdown without it.

There is a whole generation that is , honestly, addicted to instant gratification, with attention span of a fly.
This is what prevents many from being good employees.

I know adults that spend so much time on facebook on phone at work, Im amazed they can get anything done.

What do you expect in a society where parents who let their kids walk home from school alone are arrested.
What should they be doing? (that won't get them or their parents in trouble with society)
Playgrounds are empty, people don't seem to go for walks in town anymore.
Society is changing.
(the younger generation is glued to their phones and the parents to their TVs)

I prefer trails with no people, but that's me.

[Feral Bill]

Finally had a chance to get out on the trail for a long weekend. Wow things have changed since our 2005 thru hike! I recall many nights at/around shelters or camp where hikers gathered around a picnic table or a fire, discussed the day, looked at maps, told jokes, stories etc...


After spending two nights with this years thru hikers this is what I observed in camp.... hikers scattered around, staring endlessly and silently into the glowing screen of their smart phones.


http://ensia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/article_measuring_rainfall_main-760x378.jpg Well, that's depressing

[saltysack]

What do you expect in a society where parents who let their kids walk home from school alone are arrested.
What should they be doing? (that won't get them or their parents in trouble with society)
Playgrounds are empty, people don't seem to go for walks in town anymore.
Society is changing.
(the younger generation is glued to their phones and the parents to their TVs)

I prefer trails with no people, but that's me.

+1....I'll take bears over people(black bears that is)........another reason I prefer late fall to winter trips...few people


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RITBlake]

You can't go home again.

My guess is that before you know it, you will not even feel a need to automatically introduce yourself as a former thru hiker.

That's the truth...

[Starchild]

Addition or a form of evolution? The phone is just another method of connecting, another set of senses that the next generation will develop using and be part of them.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Back in my day we carried canned food, burned our trash in the fires and buried what wouldn't burn. We used old army pup tents and trenched around them when we expected rain. We wore jeans religiously. Some of us would cut down live branches to make a "survival" shelter, you know, for practice. It was a fun way to grow up, but I'll gladly take how we do things today.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Back in my day this was one of my most prized posessions. It was given to me when I was introduced to camping 30 years ago.

Now I'm getting nostalgic...

35222

[Dogwood]

Addition or a form of evolution? The phone is just another method of connecting, another set of senses that the next generation will develop using and be part of them.

Effective communication is estimated by several social studies to be based on more than 55% non verbal cues i.e. physiology - body language - gestures, facial expressions, posture, touch, possibly even smell and taste, etc. That 55% almost universally gets lost attempting to increasingly rely on non face to face communication. Actually, all the five physical senses aren't fully utilized attempting to hastily attempt to communicate non face to face as is becoming increasingly common. Many people are in such a rush wanting instant gratification of communication and understanding which further compounds communication issues. I think I know what you allude to by connecting with another set of senses based on your user name and replies here on WB. However, none the less where communication is lacking the physiological component combined with several other increasingly common cultural and societal habits it's currently causing communication problems. It's noticed here on WB quite regularly as poster's comments routinely are misinterpreted. Personally, I wish not to be misinterpreted or misinterpret other's intentions. It's one of the prime reasons why many of my posts are quite detailed.

[Acacia]

http://ensia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/article_measuring_rainfall_main-760x378.jpg

I have to say that's a good photo, composition-wise. I like that he's off-center and that a storm is lurking in the background ready to pounce on him

: )

[MisterQ]

I was on the trail in Maryland for a few days last week and my experience was quite different. We saw dozens of thru hikers, and virtually no cell phone usage.

[BonBon]

I was happy last year when I hiked that there was so much just old fashioned talking. It was one of the best parts of the hike. There were always campfires at shelters and people talking. I am pretty addicted to my devices so having the opportunity to withdraw a little was good for me. I did twitch a little whenever we were out of range or my battery died- but I survived. There are plenty of addictions being fed on the trail though- don't pick on us cell phone people!

[peakbagger]

The book Wilderness Ethics: Preserving the Spirit of Wilderness by Laura and Guy Waterman covers the impact of technology on other hikers and the Wilderness. The OP notes that his observations occurred at shelters and campsites which inherently are not wilderness. I have run into some folks that want total silence at campsites and shelters as the noise of other folks talking impacts their experience so to them folks silently looking at their electronic devices is an improvement over the formerly traditional social gathering.

HYOH is generally accepted as a guiding principle. IMHO, keeping an active media stream for the duration of hike diminishes the experience but to others it enhances it.

It would be interesting to see the impact on the frequently reported in the past profound changes in a hikers lifestyle and attitude that occurs during and post thru hike. I am curious if someone connected to the their past life via electronic media are going to have the same opportunity to change their lifestyle as someone who drops off the grid for weeks if not months at a time.

[Gambit McCrae]

Agreed. With the exception of one thru hiker asking me "where's the privy?" I heard not one word spoken in camp. It was borderline weird. 10 or 11 people hunched over their phones.

you know I just did 60 miles in SNP and on night 1 we had the very same experience. It was so awkwardly quiet that my buddy and I ended up retreating to our own tent site and talked between the two of us, the shelter scene was silent with 5-6 thru hikers.

Now I understand being dog tired on some long days, and all the thru hikers had had a full day. But come on, no campfires, no laughs, nobody but me having fun??

[John B]

I certainly have noticed how so many now carry cellphones and can't seem to go for more than an hour or so without checking whatever it is that they check on them, but at the same time I've noticed how quite a few seem to spend untold hours on this website, many with thousands and thousands of posts in just a few years, and it's puzzling that somehow one is viewed as sketchy while the other is apparently ok. Sometimes I wonder what type of jobs people have that allow so much time spent here.

[nsherry61]

The Tool becomes The Experience. . .
That is why I also stopped photography as a hobby. I found I was missing the experience to capture the pictures. Now I take a few snapshots with my phone to help provide and share memories, but don't carry a real camera and don't spend too much time trying to capture those fantastic images to share. Instead, when I peruse Facebook, I look at the amazing images my friends have captured, wish I had the same, and then realized that instead, I spent my time breathing in the world around me instead of trying to capture it.

[Gambit McCrae]

Sometimes I wonder what type of jobs people have that allow so much time spent here.

One at a computer all day? Certainly not posting all day from a coal mine

And to me its not a cell phone issue, for one I am not around people while hiking long enough to see if they are checking it every hour and frankly don't care if people do, its their hike isn't it? Having and using cellphones vs having and using social skills on the trail are 2 different conversations.

Everyone is weight conscious (for the most part on the trail), and replacing so many devices with a smartphone is in fact smart. Its in a waterproof case, it has my maps, weather forecasts, compass, calculator(2+2= math after 15-20 miles in the heat), it is a pretty darn good Camera, alarm and if I get lost or injured there is a pretty good chance I will have service.

"Don't put all your eggs in one basket" some might say, well it all boils down to walking. If the damn thing explodes, it truly isn't the end of the world and for several reasons, everyone else's is still working, and it just isn't a necessity. I have water and food on my back and another hill to climb. And in less then 40 miles (save parts of NE), I will have an opportunity to replace it.

[Bronk]

When I did my thru attempt in 2002 almost nobody had a cell phone. I only remember somebody making a call one time and it was an older lady who called her son to check in with him...and she went out behind the shelter to do it so she didn't disturb anyone.

But I don't think this is just about the trail. People are glued to their phones no matter where they go. AND ITS RUDE. Imagine if you were on a date, or even just out with a friend at a restaurant, and every two minutes, right in the middle of the conversation while you're talking they get up and go sit at the table next to you for 15 seconds and then come back and pretend like they never left. This is what people are doing every time they get a text message or check their twitter feed or facebook.

I've got a cell phone, but I don't carry it in my pocket...it mostly never leaves my car. And I leave the ringer off.

[tiptoe]

People are glued to their phones no matter where they go. AND ITS RUDE.

Yes, it's the case almost everywhere; it's rude, and in some cases, can be dangerous (as when people road-walking have their eyes glued to the screen, not to oncoming traffic). I do carry a cell phone when I hike, but it's almost always off and out of sight. When I do need to make a call, or even text, I generally slink off somewhere out of sight. It's almost like a bathroom break; I prefer to transact my business in private, and to pay attention to the sights and sounds of the trail while hiking.

[Gambit McCrae]

Yes, it's the case almost everywhere; it's rude, and in some cases, can be dangerous (as when people road-walking have their eyes glued to the screen, not to oncoming traffic). I do carry a cell phone when I hike, but it's almost always off and out of sight. When I do need to make a call, or even text, I generally slink off somewhere out of sight. It's almost like a bathroom break; I prefer to transact my business in private, and to pay attention to the sights and sounds of the trail while hiking.

Like this?
35229

Things more rude at a shelter then someone checking their cell phone
1-Hiking their leg up at the picnic table to squeeze a big one out while Im eating my dinner
2-knowing your a snorer, and think its funny to still sleep in the shelter where you disturb others
3-being cocky and ignorant enough to say the F word a dozen times when a dad is with his kids trying to have a good time
4-Crapping behind the shelter where tiptoe is trying to hide his cellphone usage
5-Hanging your wet clothes in unclaimed sleeping spots to dripdry.

[tiptoe]

All these are good reasons not to stay in shelters, unless desperate or forced to by regulations.

[Gambit McCrae]

All these are good reasons not to stay in shelters, unless desperate or forced to by regulations.

Amen to that, I think I have spent just about my last night in a shelter as of my SNP trip, I just sleep so much better in my tent.

Overmountain is the only real enjoyable shelter stay I remember.

[Maydog]

That is why I also stopped photography as a hobby. I found I was missing the experience to capture the pictures. Now I take a few snapshots with my phone to help provide and share memories, but don't carry a real camera and don't spend too much time trying to capture those fantastic images to share. Instead, when I peruse Facebook, I look at the amazing images my friends have captured, wish I had the same, and then realized that instead, I spent my time breathing in the world around me instead of trying to capture it.

Exactly. I like to take a few snapshots, but I'm done with taking dozens of photos to then post on FB. It got to be too much like work. I'd rather just enjoy being outside and enjoy the experience.

[Dogwood]

I certainly have noticed how so many now carry cellphones and can't seem to go for more than an hour or so without checking whatever it is that they check on them, but at the same time I've noticed how quite a few seem to spend untold hours on this website, many with thousands and thousands of posts in just a few years, and it's puzzling that somehow one is viewed as sketchy while the other is apparently ok. Sometimes I wonder what type of jobs people have that allow so much time spent here.

Since I'm one of those people your post was aimed at you are correct. I'm not going to make excuses for myself. I'm not going to put others under electronic addiction scrutiny while not be willing to apply the same scrutiny to myself. I also recognize no difference in electronic dependency or "addiction" whether it be me on the net sitting in my office or at home on WB or a ph, which usually entails net usage as well, at a group camp by others. For myself I feel it is not always OK for myself to be spending so many hrs here on WB. It is definitely a sketchy use of time that could perhaps be better spent having other experiences and contributing in other meaningful ways. :)

FWIW, even though I've been carrying a cheap cell ph on hikes lately without Internet access, when outdoors 99% of the time I never use it. That's the reality. It is only when I get into most resupply pts do I check eMails, weather reports, etc through the Internet.

On a 2006 AT thru, before the current degree of reliance on ultra "connectivity", I stayed two nights at East Mountain Retreat Center in Great Barrington Mass, a SILENT RETREAT. I had been hiking in a loose knit group of about 6-8 other thru-hikers all of whom thought it weird to stay at a Silent Retreat. I was the only one willing to go despite it being my first experience at a Silent Retreat. I enjoyed it as a time of greater uninterrupted meditation and reflection. I read, wrote, reviewed trail pictures, and strolled the gardens and nearby pond. It helped me recharge and DISCONNECT from the sometimes hub hub of AT trail life. I CONNECTED TO OTHER ASPECTS OF THE JOURNEY THAT FOR MYSELF COULD MORE EASILY OR POSSIBLY ONLY BE ACCOMPLISHED BY STAYING AT THE SILENT RETREAT. When we connect in one way where the consequences are frequently unquestioned we are in affect almost always disconnecting from something else. http://www.eastretreat.org Consider that was 2006 and my trail friends did not join me because they wanted to largely verbally socialize face to face and were often stressed and frantically distressed about so many things. At that time there wasn't the degree of electronic social media as there currently is nor the overwhelming need to overload on instant information through the Internet. There are very real dangers of information overload probably now more than ever in history that have been widely researched. These dangers don't just relate to the individual but societies and cultural practices.

Will say for the record, even though I have engaged other outlets to improve my writing, public speaking, and formulation of clear thoughts, I've used commenting through outdoor activity forums to improve writing skills and better understand how to connect through various forms of communication. I'm learning from others too. This part of my 5 yr goal to write outdoor related books.

FWIW, I spend hrs at all times of the day and night on a computer using CAD for my career as a largely self employed part time Architect. At other times I'm employed on a project basis usually of short duration. :)

[Dogwood]

The book Wilderness Ethics: Preserving the Spirit of Wilderness by Laura and Guy Waterman covers the impact of technology on other hikers and the Wilderness. The OP notes that his observations occurred at shelters and campsites which inherently are not wilderness. I have run into some folks that want total silence at campsites and shelters as the noise of other folks talking impacts their experience so to them folks silently looking at their electronic devices is an improvement over the formerly traditional social gathering.

HYOH is generally accepted as a guiding principle. IMHO, keeping an active media stream for the duration of hike diminishes the experience but to others it enhances it.

It would be interesting to see the impact on the frequently reported in the past profound changes in a hikers lifestyle and attitude that occurs during and post thru hike. I am curious if someone connected to the their past life via electronic media are going to have the same opportunity to change their lifestyle as someone who drops off the grid for weeks if not months at a time.

I feel I absolutely I have great opportunities, albeit different opportunities though, when I go off grid for months in Hawaii in the corner of an organic coffee farm in a Tiny House. It's as I said, "when we connect/disconnect in some ways we have opportunities to connect/reconnect in other ways." These other ways of connecting have perhaps been forgotten or prioritized to a lower level, usually by something else making that decision for us. Opportunities come in many shapes and forms. The marketing lie is ubiquitous ultra electronic "connectivity" is the be all end all of being connected. Someone else or something else is defining for us what "connecting" should be!

[colorado_rob]

Exactly. I like to take a few snapshots, but I'm done with taking dozens of photos to then post on FB. It got to be too much like work. I'd rather just enjoy being outside and enjoy the experience.Exactly another reason to carry a cellphone handy right in your pocket, the newer ones take great and easy-peasy photos! I stopped carrying my camera too on most hikes.

Google up "why old people hate cell phones", lots of interesting articles.

[Dogwood]

Let's not get off into another debate polarizing the young against the old. It's not an old verse young debate. Cell phones and electronics are tools in themselves that can be fantastic. It's their usage we're discussing.

I do have my eye on getting a ph that can take very good pics, GPS, never loses power, makes toast, corrects all my writing mistakes, and can tell me definitively what the stock market is going to do this wk.

[Uriah]

That is why I also stopped photography as a hobby. I found I was missing the experience to capture the pictures. Now I take a few snapshots with my phone to help provide and share memories, but don't carry a real camera and don't spend too much time trying to capture those fantastic images to share. Instead, when I peruse Facebook, I look at the amazing images my friends have captured, wish I had the same, and then realized that instead, I spent my time breathing in the world around me instead of trying to capture it.

I'm always torn with this very debate, but I've come to realize that in my case the camera actually:

1: helps gets me out the door when I'm less inclined (e.g., during less favorable weather; here in Southern Utah it's well into the triple digits now, and I get to experience large expanses all to myself, making for some great panoramic shots...no dust rising from unseen Jeep roads, no dirt bikes, no people, no cattle, just the wealthy river rafters concealed way down in the bowels of the landscape).

2: enables me to stop often and look around, searching for a possible photo opportunity. While doing so I have witnessed plenty of golden moments I'd have otherwise missed (e.g., bobcat/mountain lion sightings, snakes mating, and so on).

Some tools help us achieve (or do) what it is we ultimately love, while some destroy the very experience we're trying to capture. The camera's always been the one piece of electronic paraphernalia I carry, frequently as a "just in case" case.

One last thing. There's always the added bonus that, when you're mind is as forgetful and inventive as mine, the camera (and a journal) is good for rekindling clearer, more accurate memories. Like most folks approaching (or on) the flip-side of life, I tend to remember things better or harder than they were. In fact I recall the AT being 5,102 miles when I did it just three years ago. It really was, and these young kids today have no idea! Unfortunately, photos of signs advertise otherwise. The camera has its place, even though that place is often in its case.

[colorado_rob]

Let's not get off into another debate polarizing the young against the old. It's not an old verse young debate. Cell phones and electronics are tools in themselves that can be fantastic. Please don't tell me what to post or discuss. I'm old, so I'm allowed to bash old folks habits, right?

As I age, I do find myself getting occasionally grumpy and having a tendency to bash things like cell phone over-use, but I resist and I have made peace with folks of any age using phones a lot. I swear to doG other old farts like me EMBRACE getting cranky and bad-mouthing cell phones, and this thread is yet another example.

In fact, I think we are absolutely blessed to live in an age where a device like a cell phone can do soooooo many things so well. Like decent pictures. Like navigation apps. Like having the whole of the worlds knowledge at our fingertips. Any music you ever wanted to hear. Like have most books ever written at our fingertips. Like being able to communicate with our loved ones and friends pretty much anytime we want.

When I hiked the entire AT, I loved being able to call my wife almost every night and say "Goodnight sweetheart, I love you and I miss you and I wish you were here!". And I texted my kids almost daily as well. Nirvana! So much better than the old days when this wasn't an option. This 5-10 minutes of communication a day never took one iota of natural enjoyment of the glorious trail away.

I was probably mistaken a few times by a grumpy old cell-phone hater for being a cell over-user, when in fact, I was just reading a book. I read nearly a book a week on the trail, on my phone. If someone saw someone relaxing and reading a paperback would they say: "Well, look at that, what a loser, back in MY day, I never saw so much damn book reading along the trail! The trail life is going to pot, don't you know.".

[Mags]

The trail life is going to pot, don't you know.".


Well, for some people, some trails and some areas... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._jurisdiction)

[RITBlake]

It was so awkwardly quiet that my buddy and I ended up retreating to our own tent site and talked between the two of us, the shelter scene was silent with 5-6 thru hikers.

Exactly what we encountered. It was odd. Almost like we had walked into someone's private house uninvited. Felt weird to even break the silence with some quiet conversation around the picnic table.

[saltysack]

"The trail life is going to pot" says the Colorad!!! Puff puff give.....[emoji377][emoji38]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Uriah]

The trail life is going to pot, don't you know.

I agree with Mags. From my experience, pot has always been the choice of trail life.

[colorado_rob]

"The trail life is going to pot" says the Colorad!!! Puff puff give.....[emoji377][emoji38]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHah! I completely missed my own "local" choice of words...

[Connie]

I don't use shelters.

I like to keep my own scedule, and sleep when I want.

Hiking has changed!

When I started, I wore my brothers old clothes or Army surplus. I only purchased my hiking boots (that "dates me") and a REI mountaineering jacket. My first backpack was a discarded canvas pack, removed from a Boy Scouts Yucca Pack.

Now, old clothing or re-purposed hand-me-downs and DIY are called "dirt bagging" and worse, I could look like a homeless person. Blue tarp - "no way".

I like nice gear.

Over the years, I have a lot.

I still DIY a "concept" I have seen offerred for sale, but I purchase the item to have nicer gear. This is because I like to hike and camp in popular areas, for example, National Parks or published scenic spots in the national forests or wilderness areas. I want a nice campsite, with quality gear.

I often see foreign travelers, even tourists near the trailhead.

In some ways, I am an ambassador for hiking: it is not inexpensive, my clothing and gear are the witness and it is not about "homelessness".

I was mistaken for "homeless" once, only by having camping gear in my vehicle. I had an attempted car jacking to get my well cared for "window van". I was jailed - no one would defend me. The van was sold. I did not plead guilty. I had a long list of made up "charges". The Preliminary Hearing was after I had already been jailed more than the Prosecutor asked. It was the morning I was in court for a "committment hearing" changed when we appeared in court to a Preliminary Hearing. There was no "defense discovery" and no defense testimony or defense put on. I tried to have it over-tirned. The judge kept me, in jail, scheduling and rescheduling when she wouldn't be there. The judge arbitrarily changed the judgement after the fact to state crime felony; it was a judged a lesser crime, in court, without hearing the defense. The judge remarked having my registered letter, in court, however it was not placed in the court record. I addressed it to the court, and, I had the case number in the heading.

It was probation, in court, changed after the fact to parole, although I was in the city jail the entire time. N

Next, that judge would not allow an appeal, by limiting it to a review of "the record" but the public defender had no "defense discovery".

The State of California has the "railroading law" but no one helped. Now, I am branded an ex-felon.

I had never had a misdemeanor.

Now, I get "rough justice" even at home, as in San Francisco, CA.

I have no protected rights, whatsoever, not even a telephone call. I am not making this up. My life has been xxxx-canned. I reported a drug lab and processing drugs for transport here.

Instead of doing anything whatsoever about it, protecting the all-important meth lab income in this small town, I was jailed 225 days, later "dismissed" but I had been sent repeatedly for "evaluation" with the law enforcement and the court saying they had not received the "evaluation" and rather send for the "evaluation" report, sent me back from the city jail two more times for "evaluation".

The "basis"?

The completely false and misleading "record" in San Francisco, CA.

If you think there isn't "reactionary" abuse from law enforcement, you are sadly mistaken.

I had great gear, a very well cared for "window van".

After "tossing" my gear searching the van, it was made to look like I was sleeping in it.

I had only stopped to look at my travel guide for a Motel 6 I thought existed in that city: it did, on Van Ness.

I had pulled off the GG Bridge, and I had parked briefly on Fulton Street.

I was hit front and rear, for an attempted car-jacking. I escaped and I called 911 at a pay phone up in the business district on Clement Street.

I read, in the forum, about the "lifestyle" of some AT denizens of the trail. I think it is "no joke" today.

I never did and drinking or carousing - you couldn't find a more law-abiding citizen.

I have been accused of abusive language, resisting arrest, and driving at high speed rear-ending a big SUV, by a state patrol officer and I was supposedly driving at high-speed on solid ice on the highway. The vehicle was parked on the highway traffic lane, waiting for an accident up ahead to be cleared. The snowstorm was heavy snow at that point. The highway patrol officer was not there for traffic control or a detour. I was not given the tickets he put in the system. I was jailed for failure to appear. I went to the relevant court the next business-day. I had testified at the "day-court". There were witnesses. He refused to appear at the scheduled court hearing. It was dismissed.

However, not before my auto insurance paid out. Now my auto insurance is at a much higher rate.

All this, and abuse from ordinary people looking at the "record". I even have difficulty renting a home, getting only a small house on an alley that had no "primary heat" two winters, in spite of "Montana winter" law.

Big difference, huh, from a $1,399 apartment in San Francisco, CA before I moved to near Glacier National Park and all the recreational areas in Montana, for my "retirement" years.

Hiking and camping in "the great outdoors" has changed.

Now, it is perceived as "homelessness".

I just purchased an iPhone, to look like a tourist for the hiking season this year.

[Gambit McCrae]

I was mistaken for "homeless" once, only by having camping gear in my vehicle. I had an attempted car jacking to get my well cared for "window van". I was jailed - no one would defend me. The van was sold. I did not plead guilty. I had a long list of made up "charges". The Preliminary Hearing was after I had already been jailed more than the Prosecutor asked. It was the morning I was in court for a "committment hearing" changed when we appeared in court to a Preliminary Hearing. There was no "defense discovery" and no defense testimony or defense put on. I tried to have it over-tirned. The judge kept me, in jail, scheduling and rescheduling when she wouldn't be there. The judge arbitrarily changed the judgement after the fact to state crime felony; it was a judged a lesser crime, in court, without hearing the defense. The judge remarked having my registered letter, in court, however it was not placed in the court record. I addressed it to the court, and, I had the case number in the heading.

It was probation, in court, changed after the fact to parole, although I was in the city jail the entire time. N

Next, that judge would not allow an appeal, by limiting it to a review of "the record" but the public defender had no "defense discovery".

The State of California has the "railroading law" but no one helped. Now, I am branded an ex-felon.

I had never had a misdemeanor.

Now, I get "rough justice" even at home, as in San Francisco, CA.

I have no protected rights, whatsoever, not even a telephone call. I am not making this up. My life has been xxxx-canned. I reported a drug lab and processing drugs for transport here.

Instead of doing anything whatsoever about it, protecting the all-important meth lab income in this small town, I was jailed 225 days, later "dismissed" but I had been sent repeatedly for "evaluation" with the law enforcement and the court saying they had not received the "evaluation" and rather send for the "evaluation" report, sent me back from the city jail two more times for "evaluation".

The "basis"?

The completely false and misleading "record" in San Francisco, CA.

If you think there isn't "reactionary" abuse from law enforcement, you are sadly mistaken.

I had great gear, a very well cared for "window van".

After "tossing" my gear searching the van, it was made to look like I was sleeping in it.

I had only stopped to look at my travel guide for a Motel 6 I thought existed in that city: it did, on Van Ness.

I had pulled off the GG Bridge, and I had parked briefly on Fulton Street.

I was hit front and rear, for an attempted car-jacking. I escaped and I called 911 at a pay phone up in the business district on Clement Street.

I read, in the forum, about the "lifestyle" of some AT denizens of the trail. I think it is "no joke" today.

I never did and drinking or carousing - you couldn't find a more law-abiding citizen. I have been accused abuse, by a state patrol officer and driving at high-speed on solid ice on the highway, rear-ending another vehicle. The vehicle was parked on the highway traffic lane, waiting for an accident up ahead to be cleared. The snowstorm was heavy snow at that point. The highway patrol officer was not there for traffic control or a detour. I was not given the tickets he put in the system. It was dismissed.

However, not before my auto insurance paid out. Now my auto insurance is considerable higher rate.

All this, and abuse from ordinary people looking at the "record". I even have difficulty renting a home, getting only a small house on an alley that had no "primary heat" two winters, in spite of "Montana winter" law.

Big difference, huh, from a $1,399 apartment in San Francisco, CA before I moved to near Glacier National Park and all the recreational areas in Montana, for my "retirement" years.

Hiking and camping in "the great outdoors" has changed.

Now, it is perceived as "homelessness".

I just purchased an iPhone, to look like a tourist for the hiking season this year.

What...in the world....are you talking about....

[Connie]

The change in hiking and camping, the perception of law enforcement as "homeless" people.

Here, forum participants act like the AT is a "party" and living the trail is seen as "homeless" "yogi's" either as "a joke" or as a minor annoyance.

Do you think only locals and AT hikers and would be AT hikers read this forum?

It is read internationally.

The thread is about changes. Well, there are changes people need to hear.

There are arrests for a little "pot" for AT hikers, in "trail towns" as well.

I put every abuse I have experienced, because the perception of hiking and camping for recreation has changed.

[LittleRock]

I have to say that's a good photo, composition-wise. I like that he's off-center and that a storm is lurking in the background ready to pounce on him.

He's probably checking the weather on his phone :-)

[Uriah]

He's probably checking the weather on his phone :-)

Now that made me laugh! Thank you! This is turning out to be one of the funnier threads in a while!

[Ktaadn]

The list of things that haven't changed since 2005 is a lot shorter than the list of things that has. Why would anyone expect it to be the same?

[Uriah]

The list of things that haven't changed since 2005 is a lot shorter than the list of things that has. Why would anyone expect it to be the same?

Now that's a peculiar argument. I'm pretty sure no one expects things (life/the future/etc) to remain the same. It was an observation made by the OP, after he witnessed it himself. It is an observation shared by more than just a few of us; I witness it on most every 14er I've hiked, people staring at the phones, interacting only with a screen.

The point is that the behavior is changing to suit the times (and the technology), and that's what's strangest. We're becoming slaves to screens. "Smart"phones alter our experience with one another, with our surroundings, with ourselves. Few other technological advances have had the effect it has had, especially in the backcountry.

[la.lindsey]

I'm probably one of the hikers always on her phone y'all are complaining about. Sometimes I'm writing (I keep a blog of my section hikes; I have a degree in creative writing; I take it seriously). Sometimes I'm posting to Instagram. Sometimes I'm texting group project team members because my life doesn't stop and they're idiots and just because I'm out hiking doesn't mean they can survive without my guidance. (True story: I was out for 2 days and saved my team from at least 3 stupid decisions.)

I'm not addicted; I have no problem not looking at my phone, and I'd rather be spending time with people. But I know how much I love reading through my entries I've written, and the best ones are written each night. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Another Kevin]

Back in my day this was one of my most prized posessions. It was given to me when I was introduced to camping 30 years ago.

Now I'm getting nostalgic...

35222

Ben Hunt was great! I had at least three of his books. They were, ehm, dated when I got my first one, which was probably 1962 or so. But they sure were a fun read!

[Another Kevin]

A lot of my hiking is in places that entirely lack cellphone coverage. As long as someone isn't making a lot of noise or shining a bright light in my face, I try to live and let live if they're looking at a screen. The same way I would if they were writing in a journal, reading a book, consulting a map, or engaging in sketching or photography. (Gee, I hear that a smartphone can be a multi-purpose device, and the people who are staring at a screen might be doing any of those things, particularly in places where there's no cellphone coverage.)

I don't have any right to demand camaraderie, and nobody has any right to demand it of me. It's lovely when it happens, but frankly, I'm a bit of a loner. Back before smartphones, I was usually that guy who was reading, writing, looking at tomorrow's route on a map, sketching, photographing, or catching some zzz's.

Some people - fortunately, there are a lot more in here than Out There - seem to live to be offended. I've been told online that the fact that I have my PLB or smartphone in my pack - even if I don't take them out - will spoil someone else's Wilderness Experience. I have never once encountered anyone with that extreme an attitude Out There, but I try not to make loud noises or shine bright lights in other people's faces. Since I know some people do find phones offensive, I tend to use my notebook when I'm around others and step away if I'm doing something like turning off GPS logging.

In the unlikely event that I ever thru-hike a major trail, it will likely be in a 'nontraditional pattern' - because I don't want to live in a Terry Coyle video.

Tempora mutantur et nos in ille.

[Dogwood]

you know I just did 60 miles in SNP and on night 1 we had the very same experience. It was so awkwardly quiet that my buddy and I ended up retreating to our own tent site and talked between the two of us, the shelter scene was silent with 5-6 thru hikers.

Now I understand being dog tired on some long days, and all the thru hikers had had a full day. But come on, no campfires, no laughs, nobody but me having fun??

You must have stumbled upon a Silent Retreat CS.

[Kaptainkriz]

A couple weeks ago in MD we had some great converstaions with throughs and sectioners. We were a diverse cross section of engineers in various stages of life and had a lot in common on and off the trail. I will say though, the conversation evolved (devolved) into an analysis of why one person's "tinder" profile was yielding unsatisfactory results....and the requisite redesign for optimum "performance". We had a great time with that one. :)

[CamelMan]

We used to sit around the fire and drink... and have a great time

That was my experience at Standing Bear last week. But most of the people were born in the dark ages before cell phones, and reception was hard to get. Normally my phone stays off and in a dry bag, for the completely unlikely coincidence that I can't crawl out, and I just happen to have cell phone service. Or didn't bring a map or compass, but need to look at one. I'd prefer to use my actual camera for photos and video, but it's just so convenient and saves me over 1/2 a pound, at the cost of a little quality.

[capehiker]

And on whiteblaze.net... :)

Yep. I'm in my tent right now as well, and if I'm supposed to feel guilty being on my phone in my tent, guess again. Prior to that, I spent the last 2.5 hours hanging out with other Thru's. No phones. Just bs'ing. Some of us know how to multitask and not impede on another persons wilderness experience.

[Traveler]

Finally had a chance to get out on the trail for a long weekend. Wow things have changed since our 2005 thru hike! I recall many nights at/around shelters or camp where hikers gathered around a picnic table or a fire, discussed the day, looked at maps, told jokes, stories etc...


After spending two nights with this years thru hikers this is what I observed in camp.... hikers scattered around, staring endlessly and silently into the glowing screen of their smart phones.

Given few if any spoke to you, according to your description only one with a brief question, how did you arrive at the conclusion they were all thru hikers? Likely most were short backpacking trip folks and if signal was bountiful at a shelter point, they would be the first to take advantage of it. There have been discussions on trails and here about using cell phones instead of Kindles, so novels could have been part of that mix. Two people can look at the same scene, both seeing something entirely different than what was actually happening. Combine that with little actual information, observations can be rather misleading.

[UCONNMike]

I was with RITBlake on this section hike, we thru-hiked Southbound together back in 2005, and I can back up this post 100%, I've never seen anything like it. I was shocked. A dozen thru hikers all on their phones for hours on end. With giant battery packs and solar chargers so they don't run our of power. (so don't make the ultra light argument, all those cables, chargers, etc. don't weight less than a small pad and a pen, or a small book)

The reason to be out on the AT is to connect with nature, the trail, and your fellow hikers, not be glued to your phone.

I don't think there is any defense for having your face buried in your phone when you are thru-hiking or doing any kind of backpacking trip, it goes against everything that the activity it's self stands for. Sure, if you're in town for a resupply, that's the acceptable time to make calls, send photos, etc., you don't need to constantly be connected, believe me, no one will miss your immediate posts...

It's a sickness, everyone is so "self-important" and their phones are the enabler. You're not special, you're part of the same community, so get over your self and take part in the thru-hike experience.

I'm so glad I thru-hiked when I did, and I missed the smart phone connected generation, to me it's not even close to being the same kind of trip now a days, and I commend those thru-hikers out there who are hiking with their phones turned off and use them only for emergency's. Other than that, put your phone on Airplane mode so you can still take pictures, or listen to music, but don't allow yourself to fall into a spiral of texting, emailing, Instagram, etc... when you get back into regular life you'll wish you had taken a break from all of that, the AT is your chance to reconnect with nature, take advantage.

So now I'm officially the old man on the porch yelling at the neighbor hood kids to get off my lawn.

#AirplaneModeOnTheAT

[adamkrz]

However bad it may be on the trail nothing compares to everywhere else , At the gym yesterday of the twenty or so people working out I think I was the only not looking at a device - basically it was do a quick set than reach for the phone for everyone.

[Sarcasm the elf]

"I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you left them."
- Andy Bernard, The Office

[Uriah]

I spent half the morning searching for it but here's some related CLASSIC stuff from one of my favorite trail journalists..no wonder his trailjournals have so many hits....

http://alimpinthewoods.blogspot.com/2013_06_28_archive.html

The start of it....

I's born in the dark ages and am old enough to know what life was like before cell-phones. I knew that time well, and the sad truth is I miss it. But yep, I understand that that time's gone fer-ever...and it ain't never comin' back. I also git that TIMES CHANGE (truth is, theys don't; we do). And I also understand that thems little choice but to accept it (or, as is the case in my case, to try to keep outrunnin' it all).


But I'll tell ya about it anyways sonny, 'cause it was a rootin' tootin' hootin' good time. MUCH BETTER THAN NOW!...

[RITBlake]

I guess I just looked at thru hiking as a way to disconnect. Not in a million years would I be lying in my tent browsing whiteblaze.net while hiking. Just me.

[lonehiker]

The reason to be out on the AT is to connect with nature, the trail, and your fellow hikers, not be glued to your phone.

I don't think there is any defense for having your face buried in your phone when you are thru-hiking or doing any kind of backpacking trip, it goes against everything that the activity it's self stands for. Sure, if you're in town for a resupply, that's the acceptable time to make calls, send photos, etc., you don't need to constantly be connected, believe me, no one will miss your immediate posts...

It's a sickness, everyone is so "self-important" and their phones are the enabler. You're not special, you're part of the same community, so get over your self and take part in the thru-hike experience.

Whiteblaze is so lucky that we have an authority on this subject. What else is everyone doing wrong? Please share...

[UCONNMike]

Whiteblaze is so lucky that we have an authority on this subject. What else is everyone doing wrong? Please share...

You are why I stopped posting here.

Posting away, hiding behind your screens.

Throwing stones in glass houses.

The fact that you feel the need to make an argument "for" smart phone use on the trail shows how sad you are. Posting away on Facebook to show everyone how happy your life is when you're really miserable, posting on twitter to show your influence when you have none.

Change your name to "Connected to a Screen Hiker", bc clearly you're not comfortable being "Lone"

[Mags]

re: A Limp in the Woods

Chuckie V. Used to be my neighbor. We talked before we both left for the PCT. Good guy. I don't think he needed my half-ass advice, however. He does just fine. As an aside, note the comic in his blog entry..a favorite of mine. :)


In any case, the experiences on the major long trails have changed.

You have to accept the trails for what they are not what you want them to be, though.

I'm a mainly solo hiker. And the thought of camping with so many people is not pleasing to to me.

But I know the AT is like that..so I doubt I'd do the AT in peak season.

In the same way, I know the AT is a highly connected trail via social media. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

re: Smart phones



Just a tool. They are not bad or good. They can be very useful I find. My kitchen knife is very useful. If my meal comes out like crap, I don't blame the knife...

[saltysack]

However bad it may be on the trail nothing compares to everywhere else , At the gym yesterday of the twenty or so people working out I think I was the only not looking at a device - basically it was do a quick set than reach for the phone for everyone.

Haaaaa...I'm on this damn site between sets!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sarcasm the elf]

UCONNMike, this is totally unrelated, but judging by your age and username I think we may have gone to UCONN at the same time. I was at Storrs from 1999-2003.

[UCONNMike]

UCONNMike, this is totally unrelated, but judging by your age and username I think we may have gone to UCONN at the same time. I was at Storrs from 1999-2003.

UCONN! HUSKIES!

I was there 2001-2205, so we definitely overlapped. You still get out for backpacking trips?

[lonehiker]

You are why I stopped posting here.

Posting away, hiding behind your screens.

Throwing stones in glass houses.

The fact that you feel the need to make an argument "for" smart phone use on the trail shows how sad you are. Posting away on Facebook to show everyone how happy your life is when you're really miserable, posting on twitter to show your influence when you have none.

Change your name to "Connected to a Screen Hiker", bc clearly you're not comfortable being "Lone"

I didn't, nor will ever, make an argument for the use of smart phones. What I did was call you on the carpet for telling everyone, definitively, how they should or should not do their thru-hike.

For the record: I don't do twitter, I have 20-21 facebook friends but rarely post, only have 2 friends on whiteblaze (not sure why I friended one of them). Thanks Wise Old Owl for being my friend. Estimated 95% of my mileage (which is significant) has been "solo". The other 5% was out of necessity because of some projects I work on. Did I miss anything? Oh, if you quit posting because of me, should I be flattered? I'm not sure...

[Sarcasm the elf]

UCONN! HUSKIES!

I was there 2001-2205 (tel:2001-2205), so we definitely overlapped. You still get out for backpacking trips?

I get out when I can, but I've recently entered that whole "Wife and Kids" phase of life.

I'm a section hiker and at this poibt am probably on the 15 year plan for completion. As soon as I guessed that you did a thru right after graduating from UCONN a voice in the back of my head started shouting "WHY THE HECK DIDN'T YOU DO THAT TOO!?!" :D

[Dogwood]

re: A Limp in the Woods

In any case, the experiences on the major long trails have changed.

You have to accept the trails for what they are not what you want them to be, though.

I'm a mainly solo hiker. And the thought of camping with so many people is not pleasing to to me.

But I know the AT is like that..so I doubt I'd do the AT in peak season.

In the same way, I know the AT is a highly connected trail via social media. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

re: Smart phones



Just a tool. They are not bad or good. They can be very useful I find. My kitchen knife is very useful. If my meal comes out like crap, I don't blame the knife...


I say the same about guns. :p


Adding, experiences don't just happen to us as if they fall out of the sky landing on us. We have a hand in shaping our experiences. There are plenty of folks hiking the AT that aren't glued to their electronics. Find them. Go roast some marshmallows, shoot the shart, pass the shart around the campfire/picnic table/etc, uproariously sing "we, we have made fire", and don't cut yourself with any knives.;)


I could have moped about annoyed atop Mt Marcy with all those "disconnected" Zombies hunched over their phones ignoring everyone else and the gorgeous fall day. I didn't! I started chanting, singing and dancing around like Kokopelli pointing up at the sky and pointing out two Cooper's Hawks, opining on cloud formations(ohh, that looks like a bear, talking about bears always gets people's attention!, that looks like a dove), and vividly describing the leaf colors and types of trees(ooohh that's a gorgeous scarlet oak in it's fall glory, ohhh look at those burgundy red maples, absolutely stunning, what a beautiful day). I even loudly commented on the deliciousness of the unadulterated untreated Adirondack water I was happily swigging. This got many to look up from their phones breaking their patterns of fixation. Three teenagers started dancing with me offering their own cloud formation opinions. We got plenty of stares but also some laughs.;)


Funny, how all the anti electronics folks suddenly get interested in seeing pics on your Smart Ph of a naked Maria Sharapova or the latest cuben fiber SUL gadget or wanting to see/hear about the latest weather repor

[Mags]

I say the same about guns. :p




Yes you could. And you would be correct. And so is my kitchen knife.

[Another Kevin]

I say the same about guns. :p


Yes you could. And you would be correct. And so is my kitchen knife.

I think that mobile devices on the trail, guns, kitchen knives and transgender toilets all share a common attribute: I don't care what sort of tool you're packing as long as you're not whipping it out and waving it in my face.

[Dogwood]

he he he That was meant to be LOL LOL LOL :D not rah rah rah for heshe heshe heshe

[rickb]

Just a tool. They are not bad or good. They can be very useful I find. My kitchen knife is very useful. If my meal comes out like crap, I don't blame the knife...

True in many ways, but in others not so much -- I think.

You mentioned you appreciation of The Waterman's "Wilderness Ethics" book. Not sure if it was in that one, or in "Backwoods Ehics" where they recount how learning someone had a 2-way radio on their White Mountain bushwhack had a significant impact on their day and experience.

I get that.

Clearly different people will be impacted differently by smart phones in the backcountry-- and any individual's sense of remoteness may be far different on the AT during high season than on a bushwhack, but I think thier point was well made.

In my reality, not being reachable or being able to reach out electronically myself does change my relationship with the outdoors. Having a tool in the bottom of my pack has a host of benefits, but sucks all the same.

[Mags]

True in many ways, but in others not so much -- I think.



I disagree with you.

Waterman was talking about connectivity.

That is why it is a smart device and not just a phone. Put the device in airplane mode and you have a camera or a guidebook as only some examples.

If people choose to use the phone, assuming phone service is available, then they we have a device that is being used for connectivity.

And that is a different discussion.

Smart devices did not exist in 1991. Cell phones did.

[rafe]

Smart devices did not exist in 1991. Cell phones did.

Really? I didn't get my first till about 10 or 12 years later. I don't recall any AT hikers in 1990 with cell phones. Not one.

[Mags]

Really? I didn't get my first till about 10 or 12 years later. I don't recall any AT hikers in 1990 with cell phones. Not one.

You are also older than me by roughly 20 years.

I was 17 years old in 1991. And I knew people with cell phones.

It would be like me saying I don't know anyone who uses Tinder. Absolutely true.

But I am also 42 years old. The average Tinder user is roughly 27. (http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/03/03/tinder-ageism)

Cell phones in 1992 (close enough)

35234

As the Watermans specifically mentioned cell phones in their book written in 1991, I'm going to say they were common enough that *** THEY WERE USED *** Or do you think they were making it up? Have you actually read the book in question? If so, you may want to read it again because you are forgetting some details. It is on page 117 if you are curious.

If you did not actually read the book, then your comment makes even less sense. You should read the book instead.

[MuddyWaters]

Really? I didn't get my first till about 10 or 12 years later. I don't recall any AT hikers in 1990 with cell phones. Not one.

My first was in 1995. Me and wife shared one when daughter was born. Im behind curve and one of last to adopt newfangled technology.

I remember it well, when I left her alone with baby for a day or 2 to go fishing, she could call me and bitch at me . Yay for progress.

[rickb]

As the Watermans specifically mentioned cell phones in their book written in 1991, I'm going to say they were common enough that *** THEY WERE USED *** Or do you think they were making it up? ...

Mags,

I have not read either Wilderness Ethics or BackWoods ethics in some years, but remember them fondly - and certainly not perfectly.

While I cannot recall whether or not they specifically mentioned cell phones -- if you checked then they did -- the section of thier book that speaks to the impact of two-way communication most directly was a story about a bushwhack where someone revealed they had a two-way radio (almost sure about that).

Hardly maters whether their experience was with a ham radio or cell phone-- they were looking forward and broadly understood how the spirit of wildness could be impacted by the coming changes.

I think if you re-read the relevant chapter you may find th Waterman's felt the mear presence of the radio -- unused-- was an intrusion. Even more than that, they felt betrayed to learn someone had it on thier bushwhack and -- even discovering that afterwards -- its presence diminished thier experience. At least that is how I remember it.

That was one chapter. Whether one agrees with them on that or everthimg else they wrote about, both books are worth reading, and pondering, I think.

[rafe]

You are also older than me by roughly 20 years.
...
If you did not actually read the book, then your comment makes even less sense. You should read the book instead.

I haven't been following the thread closely, just relating a slice of AT history as I witnessed it.

I hiked eight or nine hundred miles of the AT in 1990, walked with the northbound wave out of Springer, stayed at or near lots of crowded shelters. Did not see a single cell phone in use at that time. I did see a few Sony Walkmans.

[fiddlehead]

I thru-hiked in '95 and didn't see anyone using a cell phone that year.
My brother hiked it in '97 and I remember a woman had one at a shelter in GA. (I did GA with him that year)
And I remember telling her that that thing better not ring.
I feel bad about that now, but , just saying to time things of when I saw cell phones hit the trail.
(of course they weren't smart phones, just a way for her to connect with her family and friends)

I'd like to add that now that I have an online business, I could never thru-hike again without staying connected somewhat.

Times are changing.

On the other hand, I couldn't hike the AT again, unless it was SOBO and out of the ordinary SOBO season even.

I don't hike to meet people or talk>
I hike cause I like being out there

[Mags]

I think if you re-read the relevant chapter you may find th Waterman's felt the mear presence of the radio -- unused-- was an intrusion. Even more than that, they felt betrayed to learn someone had it on thier bushwhack and -- even discovering that afterwards -- its presence diminished thier experience. At least that is how I remember it.



Is a camera, with no reception an intrusion?

Is a smart device, with no reception available, and used as a camera an intrusion?

Remember, this technology did not exist in 1991.




I haven't been following the thread closely, just relating a slice of AT history as I witnessed it.
s.

Great. Wonderful.

You are still incorrect about when cell phone technology started becoming affordable and somewhat common. Which was my point to your incredulous remark about cell phones existing in 1991 as portable (as opposed to lugable) devices.

[rafe]

My dear Mags, I never said a word about when cell phone technology became affordable or portable or common.

I made the simple point that I saw none of it on the AT in 1990.

I do believe you have the history a bit wrong, per this URL: http://www.amny.com/lifestyle/cell-phones-through-the-years-1.7585422

Or this one: http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/05/the-evolution-of-cell-phone-design-between-1983-2009/

Eg., Motorola's "StarTAC" from 1996 was $1000 or so. You must have had some well to do friends as a 17 year old.

[rickb]

Is a camera, with no reception an intrusion?

Is a smart device, with no reception available, and used as a camera an intrusion?



Depends on whether or not you feel compelled to check for a connection / incoming email throughout the day when you are hiking.

A great many of us have employers who expect us to do that -- even on our days off -- who would never have thought that way in the days before smart phones.

Sadly, the mountains are no long places where you can let your cares fall away like autumn leaves quite so easily now.

Kind of sucks. Probably sucks more for our spouses who we hike with who have no say in the matter.

In the Waterman's book having a means to instantly communicate for help or rescue was not a positive. For them it didn't ruin a good day in the mountains, but lessened it all the same.

Anyway, I appreciate those thoughts for what they are.

In a larger sense, I do think hikers still have the ability to increase the sense (not the reality) of wildness they encounter on the AT and super-popular places like the Whites if they work at it.

Of course you have to see value in that first. Had I seen the value earlier I might have ended up in Colorado and embraced a wider range of winter sports! :-)

[Mags]

My Dear Rafe...

Not only do you not remember what other people wrote, you forget what you wrote, too :D

Here, let me help...

ME: Smart devices did not exist in 1991. Cell phones did.


YOU: Really? I didn't get my first till about 10 or 12 years later.


Now, to your next statement.. The cellphone photos were from 1992 I showed. Hell, you had photos from 1989. Damn..you can't even get your own words right. ;)

http://www.mobilephonehistory.co.uk/lists/by_year.html And that is for the UK.


You must have had some well to do friends as a 17 year old.

Not really. I worked in a hospital kitchen at 17. The children of the executives were volunteers or worked a weekend job during the summer. They had the phones. And in a much higher income bracket, courtesy of their parents, than myself or my friends.

Remember, these are people I knew, not friends. And I doubt they had the $1000 phone (perhaps a few hundred dollars..still expensive..but these are people whose parents earned over 85k in 1991 dollars. There was an article written in a local paper that listed the salaries of medical people. SHTF when that was posted..but that's another story) Some of the phones in the link above went for 200 pounds in 1992...or $450 in today's money. For a family with the equivalent income of 200k or more in 2016 dollars, not expensive really for their precious snowflake..who are now my age and probably still earning more money than me. :)

Finally, since people wrote about using them in the High Sierra at that time, I gotta say your research is faulty.

1993 advert (1992 technology phone, 150 British Pounds)


https://youtu.be/7CP_PCBe00U

Point being of all this crap: Since the early 1990s, cell phones have been portable, within reach of the upper-middle class or so who tend to be then and now the core outdoor recreation people and were common enough that a prominent outdoor author wrote about them in the backcountry. (Again, a phone was a few hundred dollars in today's money..same price of an iPhone or Samsung Android now that I think about it)

POINT OF THIS CRAP FOR THIS THREAD: Connectivity technology is nothing new. It has been with us since the early 1990s in the backcountry. It is, however, getting more powerful and ubiquitous and is becoming part of the trail experience for better or worse.



Rick, what if no communication is available. None. Zip. Nada. Not possible. Still an intrusion?

[rocketsocks]

I love my hand held little spy computer with thee worlds libraries at my dispose should I desire, and if I feel like conversing I'll put it away.

[rickb]

Rick, what if no communication is available. None. Zip. Nada. Not possible. Still an intrusion?

It depends.

If you cling to the possibility that there might be service where none exists, and feel compelled to check at every mountain top and clearing "just in case" then it's stil an intrusion.

If you are out on a boat in the pacific where there is neither any service or possibility of service, then no. Not in the least. Negatory.

My guess is that we agree more with than not.

[Slo-go'en]

Cell phones just started to show up on the trail in 2005. I remember from a trip that year how novel having a cell phone was. Service was limited and only a few had them. By 2008 cell phones were becoming much more common on the trail. Now everyone has a smart phone with internet access.

[KnightErrant]

Effective communication is estimated by several social studies to be based on more than 55% non verbal cues i.e. physiology - body language - gestures, facial expressions, posture, touch, possibly even smell and taste, etc. That 55% almost universally gets lost attempting to increasingly rely on non face to face communication. Actually, all the five physical senses aren't fully utilized attempting to hastily attempt to communicate non face to face as is becoming increasingly common. Many people are in such a rush wanting instant gratification of communication and understanding which further compounds communication issues. I think I know what you allude to by connecting with another set of senses based on your user name and replies here on WB. However, none the less where communication is lacking the physiological component combined with several other increasingly common cultural and societal habits it's currently causing communication problems. It's noticed here on WB quite regularly as poster's comments routinely are misinterpreted. Personally, I wish not to be misinterpreted or misinterpret other's intentions. It's one of the prime reasons why many of my posts are quite detailed.


This whole thread has a distinct "Old Man Yells At Cloud" feel to it (this is probably not the appropriate arena to reference a meme, oops), but I took an interesting linguistics course during my MA that talked about the point that Dogwood is making in this post. It's true that the non-verbal nuance in in face-to-face communication can easily be lost in text communication, but what's fascinating is the way that online cultures are currently evolving linguistically in order to overcome this.

Different parts of the internet don't always use the same "dialect" of digital writing, but in general, there are ways to manipulate grammar, spelling, and punctuation to help bring across inflection that is missing when people aren't literally talking to each other. For example, CAPS LOCK MEANS SHOUTING, and /slashes/ can be used for /sarcasm/, and irregular capitalization can be used to coNVeY eXcITeMEnt. I'll link to a Tumblr post with a much longer list of examples, if anyone is curious. http://allthingslinguistic.com/post/143398801292/ladysparklefists-idk-i-just-love-how-we-young

All that's just to say that digital language is indeed evolving to solve the communication problems that started occurring as people began to talk more and more through text. So it's not like society is doomed to miscommunication-based arguments forever just because not everyone knows how to convey or interpret sarcasm on an internet forum. I'm a big linguistics geek so I think this is a cool time to be alive and watch how language is changing, but the truth is that language is ALWAYS changing, and people always complain about it, and it always ends up just fine.

But as for the actual topic of the thread, I've done a few sections on the AT in Virginia, and I certainly had lovely conversations with the hikers I met. People use their phones for a variety of purposes but it didn't interfere with the community spirit around the shelter. Occasionally I will find myself in an eerily silent environment because everyone is on their phones (I worked in a high school this year and was startled by how much quieter the cafeteria was than in my own high school just six years ago, all because the kids were immersed in their phones), but I haven't experienced that while hiking. But even if I do in the future, I think it's a mistake to say that people on phones are "zombies." Sure, games like Candy Crush or 2048 might not be creating meaningful experiences, but I love being able to stay in touch with my friends and family. I would say a thoughtful or humorous conversation through text with a friend is more beneficial to my psyche than a bland conversation about the weather with a stranger in the elevator anyway. I don't use my phone much while backpacking, but I have nothing against people who do. Plenty of people head to the mountains to "escape from it all," but that's not the only way to enjoy the wilderness.

[rafe]

Cell phones just started to show up on the trail in 2005. I remember from a trip that year how novel having a cell phone was. Service was limited and only a few had them. By 2008 cell phones were becoming much more common on the trail. Now everyone has a smart phone with internet access.


Maybe a couple years earlier for me, and I was a holdout. Of course it was just a phone, not a smart phone, and not even a useful camera.

I can't say it changed my hiking world a great deal. Other than being able to check in with my wife now and again, which is a good thing. The newer phones have pretty good cameras, so there's that.

I recall an odd experience last summer, holed up in some shelter on the LT in the rain... reception was excellent, so I poked around on FB for a bit and posted a photo of the shelter we were at. My sister saw the post and tried to shame me for having done so. Which is funny 'cuz she claims to be "beyond" all that social-media stuff and rarely responds to my posts.

I just have to say that RITBlake's experience doesn't jibe with my own.

[gravityman]

Just an interesting note: The earliest post with 'cellphone' in it involved lone wolf in 2002:

"Also, I have heard that cellphone reception is VERY spotty along the trail."

[gravityman]

Just an interesting note: The earliest post with 'cellphone' in it involved lone wolf in 2002:

"Also, I have heard that cellphone reception is VERY spotty along the trail."

First post with 'cellphone'
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/929-I-m-so-hurt?p=5553&viewfull=1#post5553


And I'm embarrassed to say the earliest mention of 'cell' on this site was myself:

"If you have a GPS you might find yourseld saying 'should have brought a cell phone.')"
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/646-To-answer-the-Companion-or-Guide-book-question?p=3557&viewfull=1#post3557

If only those old trailplace forums still existed we could really mine for info on when cells started to show up on the trail :)

[Lnj]

I got my first cellphone, called a "car phone" back then, as it was only a hand set that rested on a receiver that was installed on the car dashboard, for my high school graduation gift from my parents in June of 1991. My parents wanted me to be able to call them if I was in an accident or going to be late getting home or whatever. That was the first time I ever heard of such a thing, and then it was just "car phones", not cell phones. Not to say they weren't in existence. Just that at 18 years old, I had never heard of one before then. But it seems like once the first "mobile" type phone was out, the floodgates opened and within just a few years, the cell phone industry exploded. But that's just how it seems. I'm old now... I can't remember. :)

I personally love having my phone with me when I hike... for safety reason and camera options. I do really do social media at all... except here of course ;) I only check my phone in my tent at night before I go to sleep, to make sure someone didn't die or my kids aren't hurt while I was out. If no service, no problem for me. I can take it or leave it. I just like the illusion of a safety net that it gives me.

[Lone Wolf]

i bought a flip phone 4 years ago. never hike with it. only have it when i drive out of town

[Sarcasm the elf]

Can we at least all agree that you kids need to get off of my lawn?

[Lnj]

can we at least all agree that you kids need to get off of my lawn?

lol!!! :)

[Bronk]

Mags,

I have not read either Wilderness Ethics or BackWoods ethics in some years, but remember them fondly - and certainly not perfectly.

While I cannot recall whether or not they specifically mentioned cell phones -- if you checked then they did -- the section of thier book that speaks to the impact of two-way communication most directly was a story about a bushwhack where someone revealed they had a two-way radio (almost sure about that).

Hardly maters whether their experience was with a ham radio or cell phone-- they were looking forward and broadly understood how the spirit of wildness could be impacted by the coming changes.

I think if you re-read the relevant chapter you may find th Waterman's felt the mear presence of the radio -- unused-- was an intrusion. Even more than that, they felt betrayed to learn someone had it on thier bushwhack and -- even discovering that afterwards -- its presence diminished thier experience. At least that is how I remember it.

That was one chapter. Whether one agrees with them on that or everthimg else they wrote about, both books are worth reading, and pondering, I think.You operate differently when you have a safety net. And to me, hitchhiking was very much a part of the trail experience...something I would have missed if I had had a cell phone and a guidebook with a list of phone numbers of people who did shuttles in the area. For me a big part of the trail was not knowing what was coming next. Having a cell phone available seems like it would eliminate a lot of the mystery and adventure.

[Lnj]

You operate differently when you have a safety net. And to me, hitchhiking was very much a part of the trail experience...something I would have missed if I had had a cell phone and a guidebook with a list of phone numbers of people who did shuttles in the area. For me a big part of the trail was not knowing what was coming next. Having a cell phone available seems like it would eliminate a lot of the mystery and adventure.

There is a lot of truth in that, but everyone has a different level of adventurism (I made that word up I think). And each of us has different reasons for that level. See, I am a mother of teens and a wife, therefore my life is not solely my own. It matters and strongly effects the lives of others that I love if I hurt myself or die, even if it's doing something that I love. It would be selfish of me to pretend I can just do whatever I please, with no safety net, no escape route/plan. When a person becomes a parent, they choose to forfeit part ownership of themselves. The kid doesn't choose to have us, we choose to have them. The cell phone allows me to dance on the edge of danger, with the safety of knowing I can get help if I truly need it. It's more freeing for me.

But that's just me.. :)

[Dogwood]

A Zombie as I used the reference is one who's awarenesses are harshly narrowed, in a trance, has a limited focus, a walking dead - dead to much of the environment immersed, who's having their focus dictated to by another force such as a biological infection or system or uncontrolled compulsion, a dead person who has a semblance of life but not fully in charge of their will,… a partially alive person. When one makes the journey to the top of a summit only to be self absorbed hunched over their electronics not grasping they have no service yet repeatedly tries with much irritation, impatience, and total disregard for others and their environment, letting their state of being be determined by that device that person I call a Zombie…a partially alive person.

Liked your post Knight Errant. I too learned much from Linguistics and Public Speaking classes. :) I'm always trying to be a better communicator by understanding it.

[waywardfool]

I was cleaning out a my old office today. Ran across a few Backpacker magazines from 1984. Funny looking back at how "advanced" outdoors tech was back then.

I'm going to send them to my nephew, who is just started in Scouting and backpacking. He'll get a hoot.

[rickb]

For me a big part of the trail was not knowing what was coming next.

Me too.

-------------------

[TexasBob]

I'm probably one of the hikers always on her phone y'all are complaining about. Sometimes I'm writing (I keep a blog of my section hikes; I have a degree in creative writing; I take it seriously). Sometimes I'm posting to Instagram. Sometimes I'm texting group project team members because my life doesn't stop and they're idiots and just because I'm out hiking doesn't mean they can survive without my guidance. (True story: I was out for 2 days and saved my team from at least 3 stupid decisions.)

I'm not addicted; I have no problem not looking at my phone, and I'd rather be spending time with people. But I know how much I love reading through my entries I've written, and the best ones are written each night. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How and when a person uses their phone on the trail doesn't much impact me one way or the other but when I read a post like this I wonder how "in the moment" you can be when there are all these electronic distractions (Instagram,Facebook, etc.). I wonder how much more fulfilling an outdoor experience a person would have without using their cellphone. Seems like people who are using their phones a lot are never really leaving their "electronic home". Oh well, HYOH

[Uriah]

Now it's the dog and me and I will never get him a phone.


My dog stresses over the cost of his phone, since it's about seven times more expensive in dog money.

But he really enjoys all the free roll-over minutes. :)

[la.lindsey]

How and when a person uses their phone on the trail doesn't much impact me one way or the other but when I read a post like this I wonder how "in the moment" you can be when there are all these electronic distractions (Instagram,Facebook, etc.). I wonder how much more fulfilling an outdoor experience a person would have without using their cellphone. Seems like people who are using their phones a lot are never really leaving their "electronic home". Oh well, HYOH

That's a little passive aggressive.

I feel suuuuuuuper in the moment. I smell lilac. I pick up snails. I go swimming in my underwear.

This weekend I kept my phone in airplane mode with a brief exception and it didn't feel any different. And I do regret not taking the time to write every night. It kept me from sifting through my thoughts and experiences from each day. So your theory about my own hike is shot.

Hike your own hike indeed.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JLorenzo77]

There is a great meme out there about working out. It said something to the effect of, 'I went to the gym and forgot to post about going to the gym. That workout was a complete waste of time.'

Everyone seems to be on their phones, in every aspect of life. Heck, go to a restaurant and see people sitting across from each other, on their phones! My kids (ages 11 and 8) look at them disapprovingly.

I like to go on day hikes on the AT. I keep my phone at bay except to text my wife that I didn't fall and dislocate my shoulder (this constitutes a successful hike these days). I don't generally have an issue with hikers that I see on their phones. The motto is 'hike your hike,' right? But I would prefer the camaraderie of shared experiences.

[rafe]

There is a great meme out there about working out. It said something to the effect of, 'I went to the gym and forgot to post about going to the gym. That workout was a complete waste of time.'

The Fitbit business model... :rolleyes:

[DavidNH]

In response to this thread I would like to repeat (and I paraphrase) the words of UConnMike....

The purpose of the AT is to get folks out in nature, not for them to bury themselves in their phones. This is SO TRUE.

I find this thread depressing as it relates to the young hikers of today that are not only addicted to their phones but bury themselves in them so much they no longer are observant with their surroundings or socialize at shelters.

I hiked in 2006. I didn't care a cell phone of any kind. I mean what for? the trail goes into towns often enough. I can stay in touch with family once a week easy. And for the rest.. I am hiking to get away from it all, not to bring it all with me!! But I guess for today's youth (sub 30 yr olds anyway) they just can't survive without being connected daily if not hour by hour via their smart phones! And THAT is sad.

DavidNH

[The Roaming Gnome]

Switch to my cell service, Sprint. No coverage anywhere. Problem solved! ;)

[colorado_rob]

The purpose of the AT is to get folks out in nature, not for them to bury themselves in their phones. This is SO TRUE.

I find this thread depressing as it relates to the young hikers of today that are not only addicted to their phones blah, blah, blah..... Who are you to state what the purpose of the AT is anyway? I happen to agree, but it really is all about HYOH, and who the H-E-double-hickey-sticks are we to define the purpose of one's hiking?

And you find this thread depressing only because you believe in BS posts.

I call, again, BS on the original post, and subsequent ones that state that zillions of hikers along the AT are glued to their phones. They simply are not. Perhaps every once in a while a group of hikers are standing around, sitting around, whatever, are mostly glued to their phones. But I simply haven't seem much of this AT ALL, despite curmugeonly claims herein. I've been on the AT for months at a time the last few years and just simply HAVEN'T SEEN THIS "glued to the cell phone" thing at all. In fact, I have been pleasantly surprised that I have not seen this. I laugh at someone stating phone-over-usage through the Shennies :-); I was just there this April, there isn't even much coverage along the way. BS ! I don't believe I saw a single person touch there phones (except myself, searching for service!) anywhere on the trail in SNP, and I saw hundreds of hikers, including the leading edge of this years thru hikers.

This all being said, I, too, get sad in restaurants when I see a couple out to dinner, totally ignoring each other, buried in their phones. I refuse to touch a phone in most social settings, I do believe it's rude unless there is something urgent to check on, whatever.

[Mags]

If only those old trailplace forums still existed we could really mine for info on when cells started to show up on the trail :)

How about old Usenet groups (rec.backcountry)

Mobile phone:
July 1990
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.backcountry/mobile$20phone%7Csort:date/rec.backcountry/Tj240zjfc0Y/fhGJSsKB1GsJ

Cell phone:
2/11/1992

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.backcountry/cell$20phones%7Csort:date/rec.backcountry/I1TXQtFFfa8/xU8vZ85-seoJ


AT Specific mention in this thread..

3/12/1993
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.backcountry/cell$20phones%7Csort:date/rec.backcountry/7zXTmmMY3C0/OOTpCuO8ZPIJ

Pretty fascinating..

Same arguments then as now..

"Geez! I can't for the life of me imagine who would even dream of taking
those things into the backcountry! My whole purpose for going out there in
the first place is to get the hell away from those things for a while! I
work with them day in and day out.

Last time I went out to around the Canyonlands to do some backpacking, the
people back at the office really wanted me to consider taking a cellular
phone along and call in every other day or so. I told them that if I did
take one out there, I would make exactly one call with it... so they could
hear on their end what it sounds like when it hits bottom after falling 2000
feet..."

and the reply...

Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean that others can't have a
valid reason for taking a laptop or cell phone with them. As several
people have already related here, cell phones have saved lives in the
backcountry. I agree with you that there is no way I would take one so
that the office could contact me, but it would be nice to have one
available should the need arise to call for emergency help.

This exchange was written in 1992...

More archival information...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.backcountry/cell$20phones%7Csort:date

Presumably there are older and/or similar "just as old" mentions if different searches are used. Pretty deep just on a first pass, though.

[rafe]

Sure, we talked about cell phones a lot on Wingy's site and on AT-L but I suspect most folks were arguing in the abstract. I know for sure I was, at least till the early 'aughts. (USENET too, now that I think of it.)

I'll say again, my experience doesn't jibe with the OP's. I see plenty of phones on the trail, they're almost universal, but not dominating the shelter scene as he witnessed.

ISTM, the gear has changed a lot, but the hiking/shelter/camping scene, in my experience, is mostly about the same.

Phones have changed the trailhead scene, so we have more shuttles and maybe less hitchhiking. Even LW uses a phone for shuttling, right?

Not nearly as many campfires any more. Pity. But I understand why, and accept it.

Folks on thrus and LASHs carrying less food, stopping in towns and restaurants more often. Ordering pizza from shelters. ;)

[Lone Wolf]

Even LW uses a phone for shuttling, right?



i'v never called for a shuttle using a cell phone. i carry a flip phone when i'm driving shuttles

[rafe]

i'v never called for a shuttle using a cell phone. i carry a flip phone when i'm driving shuttles

The phone is to receive calls from hikers? For shuttles? Or something else?

[Lone Wolf]

The phone is to receive calls from hikers? For shuttles? Or something else?

no. to call for help if i break down. i only give folks that i shuttle my land line #

[capehiker]

Before I get the evil eye from the trail authorities, I'm on a double zero in NYC having a blast.

I still would like to know what section the OP was in where he witnessed full on thru hiker phone zombie mode. The reason I'm curious is because the past week, I've been among lots of other thru hikers (upwards of 20 a night) and phones are usually tucked away charging while we hang out and shoot the bull. Or maybe we hit town and played pool and drank a beer. Or maybe we were hiking. But phone zombies we are not.

[rafe]

no. to call for help if i break down. i only give folks that i shuttle my land line #

Got it. But if hikers are calling you from their cell phones, you're a part of The Change. ;)

[Bronk]

In 2002 I hiked from Springer to Waynesboro over a 4 month period (most everybody passed me I was moving so slow) and I only saw one cell phone. Sure, cell phones have been around since the 1990s but they were not common until the last 10 years or so.

[RockDoc]

Be the change that you hope to happen.
Gravitate towards those who continue traditional values, like having a friendly chat about the mountains instead of virtually checking in with what's going on in the city mostly out of boredom (and perhaps little interest in mountains...).

[RockDoc]

Another thought... What we're talking about here is the inability to experience awe, from hiking, mountains, nature, other people, a million things. So you pull out a dumb gadget and zone out.
Here's a timely post on awe.
(http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-is-the-experience-of-awe-and-why-does-it-matter/#more-61231)

[Mamabear17]

I don't know or care how anyone else dose their hike, but for me camp is for eating dinner, and preparing for the next day,
while sharing war stories. Then sleeping till time to start again.
Do I carry a smart phone but only use it for a call/text to my family each day and maybe wright in my journal as I'm reflecting on the past day in my Hammock.

[Diamondlil]

Wow, maybe it is you? While I was hiking through VA I met quite a few young unplugged hikers (no cell service here) around the fire sharing funny stories, explaining their trail name origins, etc. could it have been your attitude?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doctari]

I did aver 140 miles in VA this year (perhaps further north than the OP) & the only time I saw the face in the phone was when some were comparing various weather reports Or "How far till the next place to stop for the night" on Guthook. Even where you could get full bars, the phone was there, but usually on Airplane mode. Everyone who actually talked on the phone, went quite a distance away from everyone, called who they had to & came back.
I had a great hike, lots of good conversation & minimal zombies,,, well, a few who had done 25 mile days when they should have only done 15 :-)

[JumpMaster Blaster]

I use my phone for GPS tracks and for pictures. The only times I've texted or called someone was to arrange, confirm, or change a shuttle pickup time. But that's my business. If I want to spend my downtime deleting the pictures that didn't come out right, reading a book, browsing WB, or some other site, that's my damn business. I pay for this phone, and if someone says something to me about it, I'll tell them what I think of their opinion.

As long as a person isn't blaring music from their phone and keeps it on silent, I don't care. Being irritated about someone's phone isn't going to make that climb any easier.

Some people will find anything to complain about. If seeing someone on a cell phone ruins your wilderness experience, maybe you need to loosen up a bit.