View Full Version : Bear Spray + Clothing.
troubletrev
06-20-2016, 19:15
Hello. First time section hiker here. This July I'll be hiking from Springer to Erwin TN. I have a couple questions. The first dealing with Bear Spray. Is Bear Spray becoming almost necessary, not optional, on the Trail now due to the increased Bear activity? My second question has to deal with clothing. What is an ample amount of clothing to you? I have the luxury of traveling light this time of the year, but don't want to overdue it. Appreciate any feedback. Thanks!
Slo-go'en
06-20-2016, 20:27
The problem with bear spray is it's real tricky to use and it has to be used at close range. Your more likely to incapacitate yourself then the bear.
Instead, don't camp in the areas closed due to bear activity and use the provided bear proof food storage provided at all the shelters now days. If you don't use the shelters or find one which hasn't been supplied with a bear box or pole, learn the proper way to hang food so a bear can't get at it. The way most people hang food, they might as well leave it laying on the ground and that's how the problems start.
As much as I appreciate the forgoing comment I must disagree. If you hang your food properly the ploblems start. Use any bear canister or food hanging system is ok, but "properly hanging your food from a tree" is a disaster. Most likely no bear will be around to test your technique. If a bear does come around you will learn what proper food hanging is a disaster. Either use a bear canister, use a Ursack ( and consider the consequences) or just sleep with your food.
Bear spray is heavy to carry and not necessary IMO in black bear country (like the AT) while necessary IMO in grizzly bear country (like Glacier NP). Black bears want your food and do not see you yourself as prey/food. Grizzlies can, unfortunately, see you as prey/food.
Ample amount of clothing? Short-sleeve shirt, long sleeve shirt, shorts, socks. Sleep clothing. Rain gear, warm hat, some kind of puffy. Should be plenty from 100 degrees, down to the teens.
Sleeping with your food in bear country is a perfect way to get an early start to the next day's hike.
Clothing selection is a function of many things and should be considered as a system for hiking, sleeping and standing around. If your sleeping bag/quilt is at the temperature margin, you might want to consider insulated mid layer, if your hiking on exposed ridges at elevation, you might want to consider a wind shirt, if you perspire a lot, you might want an extra top to wear at camp while your hiking shirt dries.
Offshore
06-21-2016, 14:38
... or just sleep with your food.
And never risk your health and safety by believing what you read on the Internet...
Puddlefish
06-21-2016, 15:02
I don't think the OP had a question about bear canisters vs hanging bags. It was about the need for bear spray.
I ran into one bear that was really hesitant to leave the trail. Two other hikers first noticed the bear camped within a few feet of the trail, they waited until I came along. The three of us made a lot of noise, and the bear shuffled away, but only about 10 ft. It was panting and just kind of enjoying the breeze along the ridge. We eventually bushwacked off the trail, and passed by it from a safer distance.
That night I saw bears outside the tenting area, just foraging among the vegetation, doing bear stuff in the woods.
I was tenting outside a shelter in the Smokies the night that a bear entered the shelter and ripped open two packs to get a some peppermint soap in one, and a pop tart wrapper in the other. Someone banged on the shelter floor and scared it off. They got a nice picture of the bear walking past my tent while I slept.
Numerous people told me they saw a bear just dash across the trail at a run, and continue on it's way. A few people saw cubs up trees alongside the trail, and they all ran off before they could get a camera out.
I don't think bear spray would help in any of these instances. Like Slo-go'en said, you'd be more likely to get a faceful of it yourself in windy conditions, or around your tent at night when you mistake another camper walking past your tent for a bear.
If you can travel light, travel light. Daytime, a t shirt, maybe a wind shirt, and a rain jacket is really enough. For extended stops on windy mountain tops, that down puffy is still nice, and doubles as a pillow, or part of your sleep system if you have a lightweight bag/quilt. A lightweight wool baselayer is also nice to hang around camp, or sleep in.
This a lengthy video of a speech Dr Tom Smith gave to some NOLS instructors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y
I posted it earlier to show his opinion on predatory black bears, which he states that they are predators.
His experience/data is mostly western US, Canada and Alaska, so take it with a grain of salt for the AT, if you must.
In a nutshell, he and everyone else in his party carries bear spray.
Captain Bluebird
06-21-2016, 18:17
I talked to a Ranger at Sugarlands Visitors Center this past weekend: 1, they recommend hanging food bags and backpacks covered by a bag at all shelters. 2, he said the ATC recommends bear spray from Davenport to Maine, 3, the GSMNP averaged a bear attack once every 10 years, now they have had 2 the last 2 years. (increase in hikers, not bear population! 4, its very unusual for a bear to come into a camp as they are taught as cubs to stay away from humans. Bears become in habitual due to food left by hikers or food not stowed properly. The ranger can trap such an in habitual bear with one M&M for bait. 5, If a bear comes onto your tent site, make as much noise as possible to let the bear know its not welcomed! Hope that helps.
garlic08
06-21-2016, 18:24
When I saw the thread title, I thought someone was going to apply pepper spray to clothing to repel bears, like permethrin and ticks! I'm relieved they're separate topics.
I brought pepper spray in a car trunk up to Glacier for the start of my SOBO CDT hike. It got too hot in the trunk and the can leaked, just a drop, onto my pack and a little got on my shirt in the pack. Despite aggressive washing, first time I wore that shirt I felt the burn! And I sneezed for years every time I put something in that pack. That is strong stuff, and I can see the danger of hurting oneself if not used in perfect wind conditions.
In Smith's video, he witnessed grizzlies rolling in pepper spray that was sprayed on the ground. It's an attractant as a solid and works as a deterrent as an aerosol. As such it should not be sprayed on tents or clothing.
Like any lethal or non-lethal deterrent, it requires practice to be competent. Most of the manufacturer's sell "dummy" practice cans or you can spray expired cans. The expired cans still have potent OC, but may have lost propellant.
bigcranky
06-21-2016, 19:28
In the summer, I hike in nylon shorts and a light merino wool short sleeve shirt, wool socks, ball cap, and trail runners. I have a pair of dry shorts and another shirt to put on in camp, a spare pair of socks, and a third pair to sleep in. At the end of the day I clean up a little with a wet bandana and a wipe, put on the dry clothing, and hang my hiking clothes to dry out a little. In the morning I take off my nice dry clothing and put on the wet, nasty, stinky clothes I was hiking in the day before. (This is way easier in the summer than in the winter, I have to say.) I usually carry some sort of rain shell and a rain kilt for if it gets very cold and rainy, but usually I just hike in the rain and cool off. I also usually carry some sort of insulation layer - a light fleece pullover or even my very light down sweater, for warmth while hanging out at night, or on cool mornings when making breakfast.
I've never carried or wanted bear spray on the AT. Seen lots of bears.
fiddlehead
06-21-2016, 20:37
Although I don't think it's necessary on the AT, I have shot bear spray, and don't see what's so difficult about it.
It shot a steady stream, about 20-30 feet.
But I must say, even though I shot it downwind, I still started coughing and my eyes started burning right away.
So, you probably will feel the effects also.
At $50 a can, I doubt many here have tried it.
But, if it makes you feel safer, and you are big enough to carry the extra weight: Go for it!
(I would practice at least: taking it off your belt, pulling the safety pin out, and slipping your thumb onto the trigger and getting ready. Just that takes some thinking) (which might not be so easy when a bear is charging or false charging you)
SWODaddy
06-21-2016, 20:40
When I saw the thread title, I thought someone was going to apply pepper spray to clothing to repel bears, like permethrin and ticks! I'm relieved they're separate topics.
You're just seasoning yourself at that point :D
It's a good idea to practice with bear spray to be sure you know how to use it. If you're worried about running out, just buy two and use one for practice. I carry it because you never know when you are going to run into the "bad" bear. Might be never, might be the next time out. The smokies are where you will probably see the most bears. They can be pretty inquisitive about your food there but if you are hanging on cables/keeping things clean there should be no problems.
plexusbritt
06-21-2016, 21:49
I'm so glad I'm not the only who thought we were about to see a rash of people treating their clothes...
I have only ridden horse back in the Smokies and was warned that if the wind caught the spray right, it could render you and your mound quite ill. Instead, I was told to make a ton of racket so I added some bells to my saddle! Not sure if you want to sound like Santa coming down the trail but noise seems to be the general idea of scaring them off...
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Thanks for mentioning the Dr Tom Smith video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y. Its well worth viewing even if you think your an old time expert. Allot of old time myths debunked by Dr. Smith's careful analysis of decades of bear attacks; such as bells and lying dead.
Sarcasm the elf
06-22-2016, 08:19
Sleeping with your food in bear country is a perfect way to get an early start to the next day's hike.
Thanks for mentioning the Dr Tom Smith video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y. Its well worth viewing even if you think your an old time expert. Allot of old time myths debunked by Dr. Smith's careful analysis of decades of bear attacks; such as bells and lying dead.
Here's another old but good article that debunks several myths. In particular it reaffirms that black bears generally do not violently protect their young, as that is a Grizzly bear trait. (Although it's still never a good idea to get between any wild animal and their offspring)
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/science/11bears.html
plexusbritt
06-22-2016, 22:23
Interesting about the bells! I have to keep them on when at a certain ranch but it's sure nice to know!
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rocketsocks
06-22-2016, 22:34
Thanks for mentioning the Dr Tom Smith video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y. Its well worth viewing even if you think your an old time expert. Allot of old time myths debunked by Dr. Smith's careful analysis of decades of bear attacks; such as bells and lying dead.thanks for the link, was worth my time to watch, he's a funny guy and a good speaker.
plexusbritt
06-23-2016, 11:07
Interesting about the bells! I have to keep them on when at a certain ranch but it's sure nice to know!
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Just so that no one thinks I am a total doofus, the bells on my saddle have never made it to my pack! I should probably mention that when they told us to use the bells it was hunting season as well. Have an obnoxious colored saddle pad. Runs off to listen to more bear videos...
We have a joke here in Montana that goes something like this: "How do you tell the difference between grizzly bear poop and black bear poop? The grizzly bear poop has bells in it." I'm originally from the East, and was contemptuous of people who carried bear spray for a long, long time. Then, as part of my work as a biologist, I had to start carrying it, as did my field crews. It has saved us from grizzlies and, on one occasion, a charging mountain lion. In 10 years, with maybe 20 cans out every year, only once has a person on the crews been accidentally sprayed, trying to get it out of his pack, where it shouldn't have been in the first place, when he ran into a grizzly at 9 pm on a trail. (He then fell over a log and sprained his ankle, so it was good that the guy behind him was carrying it properly, on his belt). As for the suggestion that you use it by aiming a constant spray at the bear, that is just plain wrong. You have maybe 9 seconds worth of spray in the can. You point it down towards the bear's feet, and let go a short, 1-2 second blast. That should get an instant result; if it doesn't, you do it again. If you let the whole thing go at once, most of it will waft upward, and then you will indeed get blowback on yourself, plus will be SOL if the first hit on the bear doesn't work. All this said, whether or not you need it against black bears on the AT to protect yourself is questionable. But it would be a good thing for the bears and the humans if more people did carry and use it, because bears would soon learn that approaching humans has painful consequences. That is what we do in the Montana backcountry whenever a bear gets close, whether or not it is behaving in a threatening way, and it is one of the reasons why human-bear encounters (while widely publicized) are uncommon.
As much as I appreciate the forgoing comment I must disagree. If you hang your food properly the ploblems start. Use any bear canister or food hanging system is ok, but "properly hanging your food from a tree" is a disaster. Most likely no bear will be around to test your technique. If a bear does come around you will learn what proper food hanging is a disaster. Either use a bear canister, use a Ursack ( and consider the consequences) or just sleep with your food.
That's one of the more bizarre comments I've seen to date. Since when is -proper- food hanging a disaster?
I'm sure there was a great story to go along with that "disaster" comment. Would have liked to hear about it.
That's one of the more bizarre comments I've seen to date. Since when is -proper- food hanging a disaster?
He said proper.
35580
Sarcasm the elf
07-27-2016, 20:49
He said proper.
35580
Simple: A proper hang is PCT method with the bag hanging 12 feet off the ground, and at least 6 feet away from the trunk and 6 feet below the branch it is hanging from with an armed guard stationed below it for the night. Done correctly this is a very reliable method.
Sarcasm the elf
07-27-2016, 20:54
On a more serious note, I do think a properly hung PCT bag is effective so long as you are in an area where the bears have not already learned to steal bear bags as a food source (that's a big IF) the problem is that in my experience, only about 10%-15% of bear bags on the A.T. are hung properly, the rest are fairly deficient, sometimes comically so. In 2015, many bear bags were so bad that Jester made a calendar out of them:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nYzmdbplAMk/VhAmHqGtK-I/AAAAAAAAAiU/ZZ6wknqSP4M/s1600/Crappy%2BBear%2BBags%2B2015%2BFinal.jpg
About the "PCT" method... I know it has to be 12ft in the air, 6ft from the limb and 6ft from the trunk, and that the limb must big large enough that a bear can't just break the whole limb off but not so large that it will support the weight of the bear, so he doesn't climb out on the limb and just pull the cord up. Now about what diameter of a limb are we talking about that fits that description?
Also, on the topic of clothing and cleanliness, I have heard many people discuss using Dr. Bronners soaps to cleanup on the trail. What scent do you use that doesn't turn you into a peppermint patty or some other deliciousness that will actually draw a bear unto your tent with you? What about deodorant? Do bears like Secret? I can't imagine hiking without it but... again, not trying to send a personal invitation or a teddy bear companion.
Also, on the topic of clothing and cleanliness, I have heard many people discuss using Dr. Bronners soaps to cleanup on the trail. What scent do you use that doesn't turn you into a peppermint patty or some other deliciousness that will actually draw a bear unto your tent with you? What about deodorant? Do bears like Secret? I can't imagine hiking without it but... again, not trying to send a personal invitation or a teddy bear companion.
I use unscented soap like Nutrogena, for one thing, it doesn't leak!
Also, on the topic of clothing and cleanliness, I have heard many people discuss using Dr. Bronners soaps to cleanup on the trail. What scent do you use that doesn't turn you into a peppermint patty or some other deliciousness that will actually draw a bear unto your tent with you? What about deodorant? Do bears like Secret? I can't imagine hiking without it but... again, not trying to send a personal invitation or a teddy bear companion.
Dr. Bronner's Baby Unscented soap. About $10-$12 per quart at Bed Bath & Beyond. Transfer to a 2-3 ounce container for trail use.
Wayne
Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."
Sandy of PA
07-28-2016, 21:44
Dr. Bronners also makes unscented Baby bar soap, why carry liquid when solid can be had. I carry about one fourth of a bar on a long (6 weeks) hike. Unscented Dove deodorant transferred into a tiny ziplock for town use, apply with fingertip after weekly bath.
Dr. Bronners also makes unscented Baby bar soap, why carry liquid when solid can be had. I carry about one fourth of a bar on a long (6 weeks) hike. Unscented Dove deodorant transferred into a tiny ziplock for town use, apply with fingertip after weekly bath.
Thank you for the information. I have not seen the bars. I'll look for them.
Wayne
Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."
Odd Man Out
07-28-2016, 22:41
I use a small bar of Ivory soap. It's just plain soap.
Good info here. I will definitely be adjusting my kit. I will need a full container or deodorant though. I use it the whole time, as much for the Body Glide effect as anything else. Lord knows it doesn't keep me from getting hiker stank.