View Full Version : Shelter Roof
partly cloudy
01-05-2006, 00:41
Hay ya'all
I need some expert advice. I'm rebuilding a shelter along the North Country Trail in northern Pa. and haven't decided to use metal or shingles for the roof. Metal would last longer but noisy during a rainstorm. Shingles are quiter but more labor intensive.
I need to pick your brain, thanks
President of the Allegheny National Forest chapter of the NCT
Section hiker on the AT
The Desperado
01-05-2006, 02:05
I have done both. And as you allready stated they each "have a thing". Just know that if you use the shingles [depending on what type] they should hold up quite well , but will be more labor intensive...not really too much more though. I mean we arent talking a whole house here, ha ha I maintained 3 shelters for many years and I prefer the old tar paper & shingle method the best, but both have advantages & disadvantages. I think the shingles [asbestos?] hold up a little better maybe, and as you mentioned they sure are quieter. Good luck.......which ever you decide it's a tough job. Happy Trails! :)
Metal is not only noisy, but a lot of older shelters have pretty serious leaks around nailholes.
My vote would be metal. Shingles last 15 to 20 years. Metal lasts longer. However, make sure you get the right type of fasteners, and fasten it in the ridges, not the valleys.
One person's noise is anther person's music.
Metal all the way!
We use alot of transparent fiberglass roofs in Maine. It lets the light in, is not as noisy as metal and is very low maintance. Check with the Maine Applachian Trail Club for details. And as a side note, thanks Desperado for all your kindness and trail magic in New Jersey. All the good you do is greatly appreciated.
We use Ondura in Massachusetts. It's a material similar to asphault shingles but shaped into corrugated panels like fiberglass. Lasts 10 or more years but needs occassional repainting. The panels can be rolled into cylinders to make transport easier.
Animal Man
01-05-2006, 10:56
I would go with shingles. I live in a humid part of Ohio and our metal roofs tend to rust and develope leaks from the nails. you have to remember that shelters are open and the purins that you are nailing the metal into are supject to swelling and drying from the weather, witch over a very short time will lift the nails out. now this will still happen with the shingels, but they are still covered.
I of this helps some
Animal Man
We have metal roofs in Shenandoah National Park. They have lasted decades.
They are not maintenance free however. Every few years we routinely re-paint them with a rather messy silver coating, I guess a kind of roof paint (sorry I don't know the exact name of the product). This keeps the leaks at the nail points from developing, and addresses any rust that may be trying to develop. If you check with PATC in Vienna VA you could get more details.
Personally, as I have roots in small-town/rural Middle Georgia, I like the sound of rain on a tin roof. Takes me back.
We use alot of transparent fiberglass roofs in Maine...
I also think this is a good idea. The extra light in the shelter is nice, and the roof should last forever as long as it's attached correctly since it's plastic. Like others were saying though try to attach it in such a way as to avoid the big leaks that are often a problem in one-piece roof shelters... maybe even superglue the thing up there :). Or, here's a thought, cut it into long strips so that you can lay it down like giant shingles running the length of the shelter and so the nailed in parts are overlapped by the pieces above it, thus avoiding leaks.
Be curious to hear what you decide! I'd would say either the plastic or the shingles, but not the metal roof. I've been leaked on too many times under a metal roof and they are really loud during a storm.
Hey Partly Cloudy Keith,
I work with the P.A.T.C. and it seems that we decided on metal because of the shingles being made with tar. The thinking being that the roof would be fire proof. We have been placing firepits close to the shelters. Properly installed metal will last longer than any shingle (I am a licensed building contractor). I would be interested in your shelter design as well if you are willing to share. I would be glad to help in any way that I can.
SGT Rock
01-05-2006, 21:50
Metal. All you need to remember is use roofing bull for those nail holes, and if a leak develops, cary some in on a later maintenance trip and repair it. Beats carrying in shingles, nails, and tools every time you need to make a repair.
The other option is to get rid of the shelters anyway. That would be my vote.
smokymtnsteve
01-05-2006, 21:52
hot tin roofs are great for drying out socks
A little more amplification about Ondura (or Onduline, asit used to be called). The stuff does transport well and we get about 15 to 20 years out of it. Much depends on the amount of direct sunlight, the more sun, the shorter the lifespan if left un-maintained. The manufacturer recommends an application of a high quality oil-based paint when the matherial begins to show signs of wear. This past summer we used a water-based product called Jaxan, which is made specifically for painting composite or metal roofs. It is essentially an extremely thick latex paint that seals well and flexes with the roof. It can be tinted, but if dark colors are required, the company needs to make them custom for you.
Smooth is correct, a properly installed high quality metal roof will last longe than any other material other than perhaps slate (talk about a tough carry in). Is is more complicated to install.
If it's not done already, I would recommend sheathing the roof in planks (or plywood if you must) rather than laying the metal or onduline directly on the purlins.
Onduline panels are available in some limited colors (we use a dark red) and skylight panels are also available (translucent, not galss clear). We have one in Tom Leonard Shelter and will probably install others as our roofs begin to age out. Onduline is easy to patch with small pieces attched with an alkyd (oil based) caulk and sealed in place with the Jaxan.
Metal roofs may be a bit more resistant to punctureby modest sized falling branches (one of the main causes of premature failure for us).
If you are going w/ shingles remember that in 20 years someone will need to haul all those old crumbly shngles out of there. You should also consider a self stick tar paper (Vitchuthane) under the shingles. It seals around nails and provides a final barrier if the shingles fail.
Cosmo
partly cloudy
01-05-2006, 23:09
Good responces and quick.
I appriciate all the ideas that you gave me. I have the Ondura on my garage roof and have been repairing it from day one from the damage from falling branchs. Ondura' out. A combination of plywood sheets, 90 weight tar paper and metal roofing sounds like the better way to go. The plywood and paper would (should) keep some of the noise down. This shelter in under some pine trees so rot and mildew in a concern. As SGT Roak says, it's better to carry in some sealant that new shingles, (paraphrased)
I like the idea that MOXIE00 gave but I will have to think about the fiberglass and how to incorperate with the metal. A clear panel would be great.
Hope to see ya'all on the trail this summer.
saimyoji
01-06-2006, 02:02
I didn't read all the posts above, forgive me. Try corrugated plastic roof, covered with layers of peat moss and pine branches. THis will give a water proofed natural looking roof to the shelter. Or course, this will require lots of effort. Good luck and thanks for all your hard work.
Keep in mind that there are metal roofing screws with a neoprene washer already attached to the screw which really seals well. Having built a metal building, that is the only way I'd put a roof on. The screws have a hex head so a rachet can be used in lieu of power. Also, be sure not to rest the metal directly on plywood. It needs some air space underneath not to collect condesation and rot said plywood. Good luck! Thanks for your hard work.
mweinstone
01-06-2006, 19:24
windsor furnace shelter is a prime example of the ultimate roof.
SGT Rock
01-06-2006, 19:43
Keep in mind that there are metal roofing screws with a neoprene washer already attached to the screw which really seals well. Having built a metal building, that is the only way I'd put a roof on. The screws have a hex head so a rachet can be used in lieu of power. Also, be sure not to rest the metal directly on plywood. It needs some air space underneath not to collect condesation and rot said plywood. Good luck! Thanks for your hard work.
Turtle, how long should these neopreme washers be expected to last? Seems like this would be a great solution if the seals don't give out ever 10 years. I guess if they did though, you could put sealant over the top later.
Hey Rock,
I know that I'm not Turtle but those neopreme washers last over 17 years on my second hand, tore down, and reinstalled metal barn roof. That is 17 years so far, I was up there this fall and I found that some of the screws (two) that I overtightened the washer cracked, but did not fall off. I always wonder about this stuff as being a contractor I install and install but rarely get to see my own work 10+ years later.
Rock,
I can't answer the question about life of the neoprene washer, but, the Post Building Magazine (yes there is such a publication) advocates them and I know our pole barn is 6 years old with no leaks and we bought a storage facility built in 1988 and we have found maybe two leaks caused by a loose screw. One of the best features is the screw is self tapping so there is no need to drill a pilot. They come in all colors as well so the building could be color coordinated to satisfy those who care. Hope this helps with the decision.
SGT Rock
01-07-2006, 16:32
That sounds like a killer solution for this application.
canoehead
01-07-2006, 17:09
i like the onudura panels like cosmo was talking about it last a long time looks good not to noiesy.:-?
partly cloudy
05-09-2006, 21:38
UPDATE
The forest service has just taken the shelter down the hill to the site. They have some more landscape work to do and then I'll erect the shelter. The shelter sits right on the trail they are using to construct a near-by bridge. Thanks for all the advice, I went with brown metal to match the surroundings. It will operational next week and painted as soon as the woods cures. If your ever in No'west Pa, the UTM co-or are 17T 0658044 / 4612630.
partly cloudy
06-26-2006, 20:54
Thanks again for all the input. the shelter is up and looking good. If ya wanna check it out, go to http://klos.home.westpa.net/NCT/index.htm Got a pic of the shelter and one of the great bridge.
The folks on WB kicks a_s.
LIhikers
06-27-2006, 07:52
Looks good. Thanks for all your hard work and effort!
mweinstone
06-29-2006, 20:44
and still functional. wow.
boarstone
06-29-2006, 21:10
Hay ya'all
I need some expert advice. I'm rebuilding a shelter along the North Country Trail in northern Pa. and haven't decided to use metal or shingles for the roof. Metal would last longer but noisy during a rainstorm. Shingles are quiter but more labor intensive.
I need to pick your brain, thanks
President of the Allegheny National Forest chapter of the NCT
Section hiker on the AT
I'm no roofer, but FYI, consider snow load over winter, freeze/thaw effect, transportation/application for roof, manpower, resources,maintenance overall. :-?