View Full Version : Leave the Tools at Home
AT hikers who have been there and done that already know better--but we do see a lot of first time AT hikers on this forum, so take a gander at this blog from the PCT about leaving your "woods tools" (hatchets, machetes, big knives, saws, etc.) at home. As you read it, substitute "AT" for every "PCT" and you'll be fine.
http://www.pcta.org/2016/camping-axes-hatchets-saws-41063/
As a long time maintainer and ridgerunner, I can assure you that a lot of damaged is caused by folks doing the "Paul Bunyon" business. Perhaps they think they need to cut down some trees to get some firewood. Of course green wood does not burn that well--and frankly most folk's tools are so dull that any tree over about 4" in diameter requires too much effort and time, so it's just mutilated and later dies, becoming a hazard to other campers. The next most damaging implement is the Sharpie--but that's another rant.
So spread the word, and leave the hardware at home.
Cosmo
MuddyWaters
06-22-2016, 20:13
Everyone needs those items for 700 miles of desert.
Probably not thru hikers Im guessing.
Slo-go'en
06-22-2016, 20:53
After I walked into a downed tree angled across the trail at head height in PA which knocked me flat on my back, I was gad the guy who was 10 minutes behind me had a folding saw and we were able to remove that hazard from the trail. (He also had a hatchet and a bayonet, but that's another story).
Lone Wolf
06-22-2016, 20:55
leave the electronic tools at home too.
Sarcasm the elf
06-22-2016, 20:59
(He also had a hatchet and a bayonet, but that's another story).
You never know when you will have to defend the shelter from a cavalry charge...
An ancient Gahan Wilson cartoon...
35290
Another Kevin
06-23-2016, 10:38
On short trips, I do sometimes bring a folding saw. It's for clearing light blowdown. I might have even saved Cosmo a few minutes' work a time or two. :)
colorado_rob
06-23-2016, 11:09
I sure noticed a cultural difference hiking on the AT vs. out west; out here I don't think I've ever seen anyone carrying an Axe of any sort, and very rarely a saw of any sort. Sure, there are fewer trees and all. But if one is so inclined to do ad-hoc trail work, I can see the benefit of a small folding saw out east, but probably never out west as any deadfall across the trail is likely to be very large.
Axes or even hatchets? Machetes? Big knives? Even medium sized knives? Useless. I even saw some weirdo carrying a large sword last year. Yikes.
JumpMaster Blaster
06-23-2016, 11:24
leave the electronic tools at home too.
Do they cause permanent damage to the AT, or do you just personally not like them, like trekking poles?
rocketsocks
06-23-2016, 11:33
I attribute all the wood craft crap I see in the woods on survival type shows, mostly kids building leaf litters, sapling tipi's, lean-to and fire rings...even dams across creeks, I dismantle all when I come across it.
The Cleaner
06-23-2016, 12:47
35295A great sock dryer in warmer months.:)I usually bring my hatchet on maintenance trips to cut small blowdowns and to flatten cans left behind by idiots.I'll stuff as much foil from the fire pit into them before flattening them.
Rain Man
06-23-2016, 12:53
I've carried my Sven folding saw and a pair of clippers too from time to time, but almost never on the AT, though I've run across plenty of AT sections that needed both.
perdidochas
06-23-2016, 14:02
After I walked into a downed tree angled across the trail at head height in PA which knocked me flat on my back, I was gad the guy who was 10 minutes behind me had a folding saw and we were able to remove that hazard from the trail. (He also had a hatchet and a bayonet, but that's another story).
Wouldn't it have been easier to just duck?
I've backpacked the Pinhoti, Cheaha area trails, and downed trees across the trail are pretty common. It's not hard to duck them.
swisscross
06-23-2016, 14:14
Wouldn't it have been easier to just duck?
I've backpacked the Pinhoti, Cheaha area trails, and downed trees across the trail are pretty common. It's not hard to duck them.
The Cheaha area trails, including the Pinhoti, are not maintained as well as some of the more popular trails around the country.
I think that it is our duty to assist the trail crews when ever possible.
I definitely don't promote cutting down living trees, making forts or disfiguring anything that would compromise the enjoyment of others and nature.
Next time be thankful that someone put in a little effort to make your hike a little more enjoyable.
Another Kevin
06-23-2016, 17:09
Let me make it clear - I do ad hoc maintenance, like blowdown removal, only when I know that it's in keeping with the maintenance policy. On New York State DEC lands, I do ad hoc maintenance only when I know the trail's classification. (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/ncnst001.pdf - page 63 in print, 75 in the PDF.) On a Class I or II (like the Kaaterskill High Peak routes) all I'll do is remove trash - I don't even rebuild cairns unless I'm familiar enough with the route to know where they are and aren't supposed to be. On a Class V (like the AT), I have no compunctions about bringing out the saw or the clippers, rebuilding cairns, cleaning waterbars, all the routine stuff.
rocketsocks
06-23-2016, 17:19
Let me make it clear - I do ad hoc maintenance, like blowdown removal, only when I know that it's in keeping with the maintenance policy. On New York State DEC lands, I do ad hoc maintenance only when I know the trail's classification. (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/ncnst001.pdf - page 63 in print, 75 in the PDF.) On a Class I or II (like the Kaaterskill High Peak routes) all I'll do is remove trash - I don't even rebuild cairns unless I'm familiar enough with the route to know where they are and aren't supposed to be. On a Class V (like the AT), I have no compunctions about bringing out the saw or the clippers, rebuilding cairns, cleaning waterbars, all the routine stuff.didnt know there was a classification system for trails, interesting.
greentick
06-23-2016, 17:55
Ran across a guy(first timer) with a kukri (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukri) knife in the Smokeys several years ago. Dude went full-on Gurkha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurkha) on some deadfall we drug up to Cosby Knob shelter for about 30minutes and we had plenty of fireplace sized logs. Here's to you Michael Jordan! and your kukri
Slo-go'en
06-23-2016, 18:18
Wouldn't it have been easier to just duck?
I've backpacked the Pinhoti, Cheaha area trails, and downed trees across the trail are pretty common. It's not hard to duck them.
If I had seen it coming, yes. It blended into the background and I hadn't noticed it the last time I had looked up to see what was coming. In PA you spend most of your time looking at where to put your feet. After that incident, I made a point of looking up more often, but still came close to knocking myself out a couple of times.
Slo-go'en
06-23-2016, 18:23
I've carried my Sven folding saw and a pair of clippers too from time to time, but almost never on the AT, though I've run across plenty of AT sections that needed both.
On one of my trips through NC I was running into so many blow downs I bought a saw at Hot Springs and cleared or made a way over downed trees on a average of once a day for 100 miles.
On short trips here in VT/NH or Maine, I often carry a small pair of pruning shears and when I come to a really badly overgrown section of trail will spend some time clipping it back. A lot of trail is pretty remote and rarely gets brushed since it takes so long to get to it.
OkeefenokeeJoe
06-23-2016, 18:24
Yet another article written by a bark-chewing left wing activist who is obviously educated far beyond her intelligence. The article was void of logic and obviously directed toward an audience void of the same. She uses the same fraudulent assumptions that ignorant anti-gunners use in their senseless rant to disarm law abiding citizens.
Yes, I always carry a knife and (sometimes) a lightweight hatchet on my hiking excursions. Both I have found useful, practical and, on many occasions, essential. Also, (now everyone run to your safe-zones) I am almost always armed with a firearm. ALWAYS, I am respectful of nature and the beautiful natural life that surrounds me, and which provides me solace from the idiocy of urban society.
OkeefenokeeJoe
She made some good points. Hacking away at living trees violates the LNT ethos supported by most outdoors people. No need to do chop up trees. If you want to hack at trees, join a trail maintaining club and do some good and build trail karma.
greentick
06-23-2016, 19:02
Yet another article written by a bark-chewing left wing activist who is obviously educated far beyond her intelligence. The article was void of logic and obviously directed toward an audience void of the same. She uses the same fraudulent assumptions that ignorant anti-gunners use in their senseless rant to disarm law abiding citizens.
Yes, I always carry a knife and (sometimes) a lightweight hatchet on my hiking excursions. Both I have found useful, practical and, on many occasions, essential. Also, (now everyone run to your safe-zones) I am almost always armed with a firearm. ALWAYS, I am respectful of nature and the beautiful natural life that surrounds me, and which provides me solace from the idiocy of urban society.
OkeefenokeeJoe
where's that dang <like> button
Yet another article written by a bark-chewing left wing activist who is obviously educated far beyond her intelligence. The article was void of logic and obviously directed toward an audience void of the same. She uses the same fraudulent assumptions that ignorant anti-gunners use in their senseless rant to disarm law abiding citizens.
Yes, I always carry a knife and (sometimes) a lightweight hatchet on my hiking excursions. Both I have found useful, practical and, on many occasions, essential. Also, (now everyone run to your safe-zones) I am almost always armed with a firearm. ALWAYS, I am respectful of nature and the beautiful natural life that surrounds me, and which provides me solace from the idiocy of urban society.
OkeefenokeeJoe
It would be more productive, useful and simpler to say why you carry the tools rather than the political rant you just did. Contrast AK's thoughtful post with your screed. Also note Cosmo and the author of the original article were applying these lesson for very heavily traveled corridors versus more isolated areas.
And finally, guns were never mentioned.
Let's keep it that way.
where's that dang <like> button
:rolleyes: where's the block or "ignore" feature?
SkeeterPee
06-23-2016, 23:11
How much damage like she describes in the article has anyone seen? I've never encountered anyone killing live trees. Those were fresh cuts on large trees. Does that seemed staged? I think the kind of people who would do that are probably the same ones who would trash up a site or damage a shelter. Few and far between. I am not impressed with the article. I don't like being "lectured" for using tools appropriately just because someone might abuse them.
How much damage like she describes in the article has anyone seen? I've never encountered anyone killing live trees. Those were fresh cuts on large trees. Does that seemed staged? I think the kind of people who would do that are probably the same ones who would trash up a site or damage a shelter. Few and far between. I am not impressed with the article. I don't like being "lectured" for using tools appropriately just because someone might abuse them.
If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, no reason to be offended. You seriously think the author cut down trees for the photos in that article?
Cosmo is one of the good guys. He's done more for the AT than most folks here can imagine.
SkeeterPee
06-24-2016, 00:04
If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, no reason to be offended. You seriously think the author cut down trees for the photos in that article?
Cosmo is one of the good guys. He's done more for the AT than most folks here can imagine.
Did Cosmo write the linked article? A lot of stuff like this on the internet is staged. It pays to be skeptical. Why write an article telling people how to live when they are very likely not causing the problems. If someone doesn't want a saw or hatchet no reason to tell te rest of us not to bring them.
Did Cosmo write the linked article? A lot of stuff like this on the internet is staged. It pays to be skeptical. Why write an article telling people how to live when they are very likely not causing the problems. If someone doesn't want a saw or hatchet no reason to tell te rest of us not to bring them.
Thou doth protest too much, methinks.
How much damage like she describes in the article has anyone seen?
A fair amount, unfortunately. Usually at dispersed camping areas in addition to places not too far up from popular trailheads.
MtDoraDave
06-24-2016, 00:24
In the first 237 miles of the AT, as well as other places I've been hiking in FL, I have seen plenty of damage and destruction to living trees, shelters - erosion from rocks intentionally pulled up from the trail, trash left in fire pits or just anywhere in the woods, etc. The reading material people are supposed to read before paying for their backcountry camping permit in the smokies clearly states several rules; such as not to collect fallen wood larger than your wrist, yet how often are there thigh sized logs half burned around the fire pits? Why would you carry a saw, hatchet, or axe when the only wood you should be gathering can be broken by hand, knee, or foot?
Sure, responsible hikers understand why the need for preservation is important - but there are clearly a LOT of hikers who don't yet know or understand the need to think of the larger picture, or why they should resist the urge to go all caveman or survival show on every piece of wilderness they pass... so any way to spread the word or teach the reasoning for LNT is, to me, just fine.
squeezebox
06-24-2016, 12:04
Unless you are Ranger/Police you really don't need a gun. Unless you are doing trail maintenance you really don't need an axe, saw or such. My pack is too heavy now, I don't need that kinda silly stuff.
Unless you are Ranger/Police you really don't need a gun. Unless you are doing trail maintenance you really don't need an axe, saw or such. My pack is too heavy now, I don't need that kinda silly stuff.
Some people dont think you need a tent or stove, either ;-) he has to carry that chunk of iron, I dont, but im not one to tell him he cant have it. Its one of those protected, freedom of choice things, that'sin the Constitution.
JumpMaster Blaster
06-24-2016, 12:47
Unless you are Ranger/Police you really don't need a gun. Unless you are doing trail maintenance you really don't need an axe, saw or such. My pack is too heavy now, I don't need that kinda silly stuff. (emphasis mine)
You're projecting YOUR lack of needs on to someone else's experience. If you don't think you need something, who are you to say no one else needs them? Example- You don't need to carry such a heavy pack, you should go lighter. I go as light as possible. See how that works?
It's irksome when people say someone doesn't need something thay they themselves don't like to use/carry. That's like saying nobody NEEDS to have a vehicle that goes faster than 70 mph, but they all do.
HYOH.
colorado_rob
06-24-2016, 17:51
blah, blah, blah.... Yes, I always carry a knife and (sometimes) a lightweight hatchet on my hiking excursions. Both I have found useful, practical and, on many occasions, essential. Please, pray tell, in what way were any of these items practical let alone essential? I'm just aching to know. 50 years of backpacking, tens of thousands of miles hiked and I've personally never, ever needed anything more than a little knife. WHAT have I been missing?
squeezebox
06-24-2016, 17:54
No it's not in the Constitution. Unless you are part of the National Guard or other military "Militia" you have no right for a personal firearm. Do your homework. I have said my piece and will not further respond. Can you quote the 2nd amendment?? I can.
Sarcasm the elf
06-24-2016, 17:58
Funny, the opening post Makes no mention of guns. Post 23, does mention them but it's the moderator reminding us that this thread isn't a discussion about them...
rocketsocks
06-24-2016, 18:05
Define militia
Sarcasm the elf
06-24-2016, 18:06
Define militia
It's what hipsters name their daughters because "Melissa" isn't cool enough for them.
No it's not in the Constitution. Unless you are part of the National Guard or other military "Militia" you have no right for a personal firearm. Do your homework. I have said my piece and will not further respond. Can you quote the 2nd amendment?? I can.
As someone who swore an oath to defend the Constitution, your reading of the Federalist papers and the intentions of the framers of the Bill of Rights is obviously flawed. Militia is the "entirety of the people". Well regulated, means "equipped as well as a regular" Army. Obviously, Stalin, Mao and Hitler approves of your warping of historical context. Bravo!
We went from a nice article on perhaps it is best not to play Paul Bunyan in the woods on our popular trails. And maybe do some volunteer work instead.
To discussing firearms and 2nd amendment rights, Hitler, Mao and Stalin.
In the words of my mother "What a bunch of chooches"
For the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, please consider something more productive with your time.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/home/volunteer
http://www.pcta.org/volunteer/
http://continentaldividetrail.org/volunteering-with-the-cdtc/
You'll get to play with big tools. And there is often beer at the end.