View Full Version : Bearikade Expedition attempt... Wild Ideas review
AlpineKevin
07-05-2016, 20:41
Before my trip I decided a week before to go with a Bearikade Expedition over the Ursack. So I placed an order Wednesday night knowing that it would have more than enough time to get from Southern California to Las Vegas by the next Wednesday that I needed it when I was leaving for a 4 week backpacking trip. The site said it ships by USPS 2 day Air so it was plenty of time (the slowest shipping possibly would still be overnight for SoCal to Vegas). But just to make sure I called the guy (Allen DeForrest) the next day on Thursday to make sure it went out. He told me that today's orders already went out. Considering that my order was last night surely that meant mine went out, but I specifically asked just to make sure. Despite saying that "today's orders went out" he told me that he saw my order and it would go out the next day (Friday). I explained to him that I absolutely needed it by Wednesday because I was leaving for a long trip in the High Sierras and he said "oh yeah no problem it will get there well before then because you are nearby in Vegas". So I thanked him for his assurances. By next Tuesday I still did not receive my Bearikade so I called him. He had not even sent it out yet!!! Not only that he didn't even seem to care! When he answered I asked if I could have the tracking number and he told me that my order hadn't shipped yet and nonchalantly asked if I want a refund. Are you kidding me! He just didn't care nor did he care that he blatantly lied to me. On top of that after I told him to refund me and I furiously hung up he sent me an email telling me that he couldn't process the refund without calling him again and giving him my credit card. I was so furious at this guy that there was no way I could speak to him again in a civilized manner so I emailed him that I would just call VISA to reverse the charge and he could deal with the charge back fee.
So now I have to hike from Kennedy Meadows to Sierra City with a Ursack hoping a bear will not pulverize my food and hoping a Ranger in Yosemite will not cite me for not using one of their approved canisters.
MuddyWaters
07-05-2016, 21:06
I recall it took something like 3 weeks to get my bearikade. I think they have to .....make it...sometimes. Its a small outfit.
They shouldnt have told you it would ship if it wouldnt though. Sorry it didnt work out. Its a fair product, except the lid will bend easy and not seal well against the oring
No one is forcing you to use an ursack, thats your choice, and Yosemite isnt the only place you have to worry about. Illegal in SEKI as well.
Im willing to bet you can stop at an outfitter on the way and pick up a different bear cannister like the bear vault. I was asked twice in the sierra if I had a cannister. Difference between a bearikade weekender and BV500 is only about 9oz. You honestly will never notice it.
AlpineKevin
07-05-2016, 21:21
No one is forcing you to use an ursack, thats your choice, and Yosemite isnt the only place you have to worry about. Illegal in SEKI as well.
Im willing to bet you can stop at an outfitter on the way and pick up a different bear cannister like the bear vault. I was asked twice in the sierra if I had a cannister.
Ursack is legal in Inyo National Forest and all areas of SEKI I'd go through except Rock Creek and Rae Lakes. Rock Creek will be the only one I will have to stay at so Rock Creek and Yosemite are it.
And I can go to REI and get a bear cannister, but I am not carrying all that extra weight when there are (were) better options. It will be Ursack with Opsack liners. (I am a dry food guy anyways).
AlpineKevin
07-05-2016, 21:24
.... oh and Rock Creek has bear bins.
saltysack
07-06-2016, 07:31
Very surprised at this. He was very helpful and courteous to me last year. Chances are you will get checked...I would put something hard inside your pack that you could at least knock on when asked...i.e. Maybe a cook pot etc..cans are a pita but serve a purpose and make a great seat and a backcountry washing machine.
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AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 15:08
Chances are you will get checked...
Checked in SEKI or Yosemite? For SEKI I will just argue that I do not need one except for Mae Lakes and since I'm not camping in Rae Lakes I'm fine (hopefully a Ranger doesn't come through while I'm camping the one night at Rock Creek though). For Yosemite I'm skipping Red Meadows to Toloumne since I have hiked that portion several times already, so I will just be high tailing it out of Toulemne way pass Glen Aulin by the end of the day.
AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 15:14
Very surprised at this. He was very helpful and courteous to me last year.
He was helpful and courteous, but he lied. Telling me "oh sure it will ship out tomorrow" courteously makes no difference to me if he never ships it. I would have rather him say "I'll do it whenever the f I want to tomorrow, now f off and leave me alone" and then actually ship it. Just don't tell me you are going to do something knowing that I am depending on what you say and then not do it.
Maui Rhino
07-06-2016, 16:26
When I was looking at bear canisters for my JMT, there was a 6week wait for a Bearikade. Sounds to me like you procrastinated in getting a crucial piece of REQUIRED equipment. Waiting until 5 days before to place your order is a little reckless. Then to say you're gonna go with the non-approved Ursak because a BV500 isnt good enough for you strikes me as silly. Suck it up, Buttercup. Go get yourself a legal canister, stop blaming others for your choices and actions, and go enjoy your hike without worrying about a Ranger giving you a fine.
MuddyWaters
07-06-2016, 16:29
Rangers hike the trails sometimes. I was checked by one I met right before bighorn plateau. Wanted to see permit too. (Wet and tattered from sweaty pocket, almost illegible ), Also yosemite. Its pretty obvious in a small pack if someone has a can, cause its half the pack.
AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 16:33
Waiting until 5 days before to place your order is a little reckless. stop blaming others for your choices and actions, and go enjoy your hike without worrying about a Ranger giving you a fine.
It was a week out. I already had a Ursack but I changed my mind.
I accept no blame for trusting the word of the website and then for trusting the word of a man I am speaking to on the phone. When I convey to a company that I placed an order with them with the understanding that I will receive my item within a certain time, and that company assures me that understanding is correct and that I will most definitely receive my order then that I am not to blame. Had he shipped it when he said he would and then USPS got all retarded with the package then that would not be on him or on him or even on USPS since USPS does not guarantee dates, that would just be life, but in this case I was given an assurance which was worthless. That is most definitely on him not on me.
AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 16:50
Also yosemite. Its pretty obvious in a small pack if someone has a can, cause its half the pack.
Guess I will just have to suck it up and take the fine then. I will just take it to court which will be in the Federal 9th District in San Francisco. I will have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court, get a continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, probably be able to get another continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, then make my argument on the 3rd time if for some miracle the Ranger shows up the 3rd time. Yes I will do that over paying $150 - $5,000 :-) . And don't give me the "I'm a horrible person who doesn't care about the life of bears". Bears can't get into Ursacks, this is not about bears, this is about the intricacies of government rules that want to force me to carry an extra 4 pounds over 500 miles. I won't carry 1mg extra for the government, so I certainly won't carry 4 pounds for them (actually I take that back, I will carry the permit which is certainly over 1mg but I have no problem with the permitting aspect of park management).
saltysack
07-06-2016, 17:01
Guess I will just have to suck it up and take the fine then. I will just take it to court which will be in the Federal 9th District in San Francisco. I will have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court, get a continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, probably be able to get another continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, then make my argument on the 3rd time if for some miracle the Ranger shows up the 3rd time. Yes I will do that over paying $150 - $5,000 :-) . And don't give me the "I'm a horrible person who doesn't care about the life of bears". Bears can't get into Ursacks, this is not about bears, this is about the intricacies of government rules that want to force me to carry an extra 4 pounds over 500 miles. I won't carry 1mg extra for the government, so I certainly won't carry 4 pounds for them (actually I take that back, I will carry the permit which is certainly over 1mg but I have no problem with the permitting aspect of park management).
WOW???? Really....I assume your carrying an Ak47....
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saltysack
07-06-2016, 17:07
Checked in SEKI or Yosemite? For SEKI I will just argue that I do not need one except for Mae Lakes and since I'm not camping in Rae Lakes I'm fine (hopefully a Ranger doesn't come through while I'm camping the one night at Rock Creek though). For Yosemite I'm skipping Red Meadows to Toloumne since I have hiked that portion several times already, so I will just be high tailing it out of Toulemne way pass Glen Aulin by the end of the day.
I was checked in Lyle canyon...she wanted to touch my can....no pun intended...[emoji16]
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AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 17:09
WOW???? Really....I assume your carrying an Ak47....
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What in the world would I have a use for an AK-47? Certainly not for black bears. Even with Grizzlies it has been shown that bear spray is much more effective than forearms. I don't even see the point of taking a small handgun into the wilderness. I don't see the point even for women.
saltysack
07-06-2016, 17:10
He was helpful and courteous, but he lied. Telling me "oh sure it will ship out tomorrow" courteously makes no difference to me if he never ships it. I would have rather him say "I'll do it whenever the f I want to tomorrow, now f off and leave me alone" and then actually ship it. Just don't tell me you are going to do something knowing that I am depending on what you say and then not do it.
They actually shipped mine to the hotel in mammoth just before my trip..
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AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 17:13
They actually shipped mine to the hotel in mammoth just before my trip..
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Exactly. And you expected it to be there correct? I had the same expectation. Now imagine if it didn't show up when they said. You would have had to go into town and buy TWO (if you were getting the Expedition like I tried to get) heavy cans and carry a few more pounds you had not planned to carry. You then would probably had to ditch the Espresso Machine and leave that behind.
saltysack
07-06-2016, 17:19
Exactly. And you expected it to be there correct? I had the same expectation. Now imagine if it didn't show up when they said. You would have had to go into town and buy TWO (if you were getting the Expedition like I tried to get) heavy cans and carry a few more pounds you had not planned to carry. You then would probably had to ditch the Espresso Machine and leave that behind.
No I actually called several months ahead then confirmed with the hotel several days before my arrival time to confirm arrival.....if it were me id suck it up either call nicely or say fk it and buy a BV500....
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AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 17:30
say fk it and buy a BV500....
%10 of the reviews on REI say that a bear destroyed it and got into their food. All of those were from the High Sierra. I assume most of the other %90 of reviews were not in the High Sierra. In addition on the East Coast some bears can actually open it. Not even too mention it's size and bulk. I will be a 6 day hike from more food in some places in my hike, I cannot risk losing my food.
The NP service demands I use a device with a proven record of failure over a device with no reported failures (I do not have an old Ursack but a new one). I will go with risking a fine over risking the lost of my food in places where I cannot risk losing my food. Pulverized granola bars and a fine is better than no granola bars.
MuddyWaters
07-06-2016, 17:32
Guess I will just have to suck it up and take the fine then. I will just take it to court which will be in the Federal 9th District in San Francisco. I will have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court, get a continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, probably be able to get another continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, then make my argument on the 3rd time if for some miracle the Ranger shows up the 3rd time. Yes I will do that over paying $150 - $5,000 :-) . And don't give me the "I'm a horrible person who doesn't care about the life of bears". Bears can't get into Ursacks, this is not about bears, this is about the intricacies of government rules that want to force me to carry an extra 4 pounds over 500 miles. I won't carry 1mg extra for the government, so I certainly won't carry 4 pounds for them (actually I take that back, I will carry the permit which is certainly over 1mg but I have no problem with the permitting aspect of pa rk management).
Yosemite's court is in yosemite I believe. If you think they arent adept at dealing with people such as yourself, you are mistaken.
AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 21:39
Yosemite's court is in yosemite I believe. If you think they arent adept at dealing with people such as yourself, you are mistaken.
Yosemite does not have their own little Mickey Mouse Federal Court. Federal offenses go to federal court. In this case San Francisco. The US Constitution requires that I be able confront my accuser. If the accuser (Ranger) does not show up, the case is dismissed (just like when a cop doesn't show up for a traffic ticket).
And no they most definitely are not adapt at dealing with people like me. Even real law enforcement officers and prosecutors are not adapt at dealing with people like me. If you had any experience with the justice system you would know that with anything short of rape or murder the system is setup with an expectation of submission. As soon as you start putting up a fight it is something they are not used to at all. %94 of all federal cases get plea bargained, no one fights, and those %6 that do fight are usually for something very very serious where the prosecution is giving them no choice but life. You put up even a little bit of a fight for something as stupid as a $200 fine and they quickly go into "not worth it" mode.
Diamondlil
07-06-2016, 22:25
Guess I will just have to suck it up and take the fine then. I will just take it to court which will be in the Federal 9th District in San Francisco. I will have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court, get a continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, probably be able to get another continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, then make my argument on the 3rd time if for some miracle the Ranger shows up the 3rd time. Yes I will do that over paying $150 - $5,000 :-) . And don't give me the "I'm a horrible person who doesn't care about the life of bears". Bears can't get into Ursacks, this is not about bears, this is about the intricacies of government rules that want to force me to carry an extra 4 pounds over 500 miles. I won't carry 1mg extra for the government, so I certainly won't carry 4 pounds for them (actually I take that back, I will carry the permit which is certainly over 1mg but I have no problem with the permitting aspect of park management).
Wow, why are you holding the guy with the Bearcan to such high moral ethics when by virtu of the above quoted post, you don't give a crap about the rules? We can see you are a, Do as I say Not as I Do, kind of person.
Can we spell S E L F C E N T E R E D?
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MuddyWaters
07-06-2016, 23:19
Yosemite does not have their own little Mickey Mouse Federal Court. Federal offenses go to federal court. In this case San Francisco. The US Constitution requires that I be able confront my accuser. If the accuser (Ranger) does not show up, the case is dismissed (just like when a cop doesn't show up for a traffic ticket).
And no they most definitely are not adapt at dealing with people like me. Even real law enforcement officers and prosecutors are not adapt at dealing with people like me. If you had any experience with the justice system you would know that with anything short of rape or murder the system is setup with an expectation of submission. As soon as you start putting up a fight it is something they are not used to at all. %94 of all federal cases get plea bargained, no one fights, and those %6 that do fight are usually for something very very serious where the prosecution is giving them no choice but life. You put up even a little bit of a fight for something as stupid as a $200 fine and they quickly go into "not worth it" mode.
United States District courts for Eastern district of CA are located in.....fresno, sacramento, bakersfield, redding, yosemite. Yes, yosemite has its own federal district court . Not San Francisco. They issue thousands of federal citations per year to some of the millions of visitors. Its not some unusual occurrence.
http://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/index.cfm/clerks-office/court-directions/yosemite-courthouse-and-directions/
SEKI would likely be in fresno, bakersfield or ridgecrest. The court will be the closest to where the infraction occurred. Thats the norm.
You will pay any fine, online, because its the cheapest way out for you. Just like everyone else. Case closed. All your bluster for a ticket....is BS.
AlpineKevin
07-07-2016, 00:24
You will pay any fine, online, because its the cheapest way out for you. Just like everyone else. Case closed. All your bluster for a ticket....is BS.
Like I said, they are not used to people like me because I DO NOT take the "cheapest way out". THAT is what they are used to.
That's surprising they have a court in Yosemite. I did not know that. Good to know.
The difference between me and Wild Ideas is i'm not a company serving customers. When I had a business I did what I would promise. So there is no contradiction.... And I am not the first hiker to ignore being told to use something 4 pounds heavier that has a long record of failure instead of a 4 pound lighter item that has no record of failure.
cmoulder
07-07-2016, 07:22
After reading this thread I find myself rooting for the Rangers and the Bears. :rolleyes:
MuddyWaters
07-07-2016, 07:56
. And I am not the first hiker to ignore being told to use something 4 pounds heavier that has a long record of failure instead of a 4 pound lighter item that has no record of failure.
Not sure whats 4 lbs heavier wirh history of failure.
Bear cannister program is an outstanding success story in the sierra. Reduced bear problems by 99% or such.
Ursack was allowed on a trial basis in Seki a few yrs ago. Failures is why it is no longer.
Yes, they changed the sewing and thread and retested it. But....they didnt test it tied to anything either. Why?
Ursack has many issues. Nothing to tie it too above treeline is huge. Rope too short to tie to a tree larger than 1-1.5 ft diameter. It will damage trees if bear attempts to remove sack. A bear can carry it off. Cannot quickly tie to tree if bear approaches. Depends on people tieing two things correctly. You still lose your food if bear chews it and slobbers it, and you might be days from trailhead. It can be punctured rewarding bear with taste. (This is yosemite and sekis biggest current concern)
These are much bigger problems for high-use areas like yosemite and SEKI trail corridors than they are for more remote places.
The worst really, is that wear and tear is cumulative when you are expecting bears to chew it .Surviving 1 hr of bear play when new, which is IGBC test, is not indicative of long term performance.
saltysack
07-07-2016, 09:22
Are you sure you wouldn't rather go mountain biking in Glacier???
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swisscross
07-07-2016, 09:35
I understand the OP's frustrations. We all go to great lengths to save weight on our back.
Once we have made the commitment to purchase said item anything else is just not an alternative.
"And I am not the first hiker to ignore being told to use something 4 pounds heavier that has a long record of failure instead of a 4 pound lighter item that has no record of failure."
But where in the world this this come from? The BV500 weighs 41oz, the expedition weighs 36oz.
You are looking at a 5oz difference... If you are comparing the weight of the bear can to the Ursak...you are fibbing to yourself.
The BV is clear, allowing you to see the contents, and is approved in many places that WI's can and the Ursak is not.
I cannot fathom spending an additional 280 dollars to save 5oz for ONE trip especially if you ever plan on hiking elsewhere.
Am I missing something? I love my expensive, light gear...but gear I will use EVERY time I hit the woods.
cmoulder
07-07-2016, 09:49
I also understand the OP's frustration where it applies to being lied to. No excuse for that. I've also been lied to by someone and it is absolutely maddening.
HOWEVER, the current facts on the ground dictate a different plan of action; no amount of bitching and moaning is going to make things better. This "I'm gonna show them!" bluster is patently puerile.
And a valuable lesson has been taught (learned, apparently not), which is to purchase critical gear far in advance of need, and practice using it and packing it.
After reading this thread I find myself rooting for the Rangers and the Bears. :rolleyes:
Me too! And i dont even like rangers, or bears
What would the OP have done if he was told he wasnt going to get his canister in time because he waited until the last minute?
Yes, there's no Federal court in Yosemite. You may take notice of the building that pretends to be a courthouse. It's frequently inhibited by persons that pretend to be Federal officers. I'm sure you can easily frightened them with your superior knowledge. (Hint: claim victory and pay the fine and claim it was dismissed.)
I've also been asked to produce permits and bear can in Yosemite.
I'm surprised that a moderator hasn't shut the thread down since you are talking about blatantly breaking the law...
Back to the original issue of Wild Ideas service. I ordered a Bearikade Weekender last Thursday night and received it today. I did ask their customer service on Wednesday if it had been shipped and for a tracking number which I was sent yesterday. Doesn't seem too bad to me for what is certainly a very busy time for the vendor.
imscotty
07-08-2016, 20:32
Back to the original issue of Wild Ideas service. I ordered a Bearikade Weekender last Thursday night and received it today. I did ask their customer service on Wednesday if it had been shipped and for a tracking number which I was sent yesterday. Doesn't seem too bad to me for what is certainly a very busy time for the vendor.
QiWiz, maybe the reason for your quick service is they took a canister they had made for a customer who was bitching at them on the phone and decided to mail it to you instead :)
QiWiz, maybe the reason for your quick service is they took a canister they had made for a customer who was bitching at them on the phone and decided to mail it to you instead :)
That would be comically ironic
saltysack
07-08-2016, 22:01
QiWiz, maybe the reason for your quick service is they took a canister they had made for a customer who was bitching at them on the phone and decided to mail it to you instead :)
[emoji106]
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cmoulder
07-09-2016, 06:24
:sun
Good 'un! LOL
Vegan Packer
07-10-2016, 19:16
My experience with Wild Ideas was positive. I ordered a custom size, and I was told that this would take extra time. My canister arrived on-time, per the time frame that I was quoted when I placed the order.
They have also been timely and responsive in correspondence after my purchase.
Casey & Gina
07-14-2016, 07:43
Guess I will just have to suck it up and take the fine then. I will just take it to court which will be in the Federal 9th District in San Francisco. I will have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court, get a continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, probably be able to get another continuance at the last minute, have the Ranger travel 10 hours to court again, then make my argument on the 3rd time if for some miracle the Ranger shows up the 3rd time. Yes I will do that over paying $150 - $5,000 :-) . And don't give me the "I'm a horrible person who doesn't care about the life of bears". Bears can't get into Ursacks, this is not about bears, this is about the intricacies of government rules that want to force me to carry an extra 4 pounds over 500 miles. I won't carry 1mg extra for the government, so I certainly won't carry 4 pounds for them (actually I take that back, I will carry the permit which is certainly over 1mg but I have no problem with the permitting aspect of park management).
ROFL, and sadly shaking my head... It's people with this nasty selfish sort of attitude that cause the system to be what it is. Were everyone kind and cooperative and trying to follow the rules or at least being respectful when they don't, there would be less inclination for tickets and fines to be given. Good job perpetuating the sort of negative consequences you hate, lol!
This post makes me want to become a ranger just to hunt down some snarky fellow like you to give a ticket to. It's a public place - be respectful of the rules for the benefit of all who share it. If you want to do whatever the heck you want without regard to others, we have a great solution for that - it's called private property.