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View Full Version : Do Opsacks or Base Camp odor barrier bags really work to cut down food scents?



saltysack
07-06-2016, 07:28
I've never hung my food but thinking I might line my zpacks food bag with one of these for my upcoming trips....any users feed back would be helpful.

Thx


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colorado_rob
07-06-2016, 07:39
My wife had some food in an OPsack, basically some red Gatorade powder (and our damn coffee!) inadvertently left in her pack overnight..... Voila, red bear slobber.

saltysack
07-06-2016, 07:52
Thx CR you answered my question! You sure she didn't smear some peanut butter in there? Didn't she want a new pack? [emoji12]


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colorado_rob
07-06-2016, 07:56
Thx CR you answered my question! You sure she didn't smear some peanut butter in there? Didn't she want a new pack? [emoji12]
She got that new pack, for free. Osprey's "no fault, iron clad warranty". to be fair, the OPsack was a couple years old. Perhaps brand new ones are better.

Water Rat
07-06-2016, 10:01
My wife had some food in an OPsack, basically some red Gatorade powder (and our damn coffee!) inadvertently left in her pack overnight..... Voila, red bear slobber.

The bear just wanted the coffee. The Gatorade powder was in the way! :D

nsherry61
07-06-2016, 10:04
There is plenty of evidence that odor proof sacks do not even slow down dogs trained to sniff out contraban. It's probably safe to suggest that these odor resistant bags reduce the amount of odor that escapes through the plastic, but apparently they do NOT eliminate it.

Maybe for a bear, it's kinda like the difference between walking down the bread isle in the store vs. walking past a bakery with fresh bread. You can smell both, but the fresh bread is a lot more enticing.

Ktaadn
07-06-2016, 10:49
I'm guessing they would work if you could somehow keep the outside of the bag clean. I have no idea how you would do that in a real world situation though.

Connie
07-06-2016, 11:18
My experience with Opsaks is good for all my cooking gear, for food, garbage, and even tp (if required).

Keeping food odor off your backpack or clothing and gear may be more difficult.

I have used a bigger waterproof sack, sold for kayaking, to hold the Opsaks.

The best suggestion I have seen is to prepare food away from camp.

I have cold camped.

I have used Sports Wash, at home, so human scent isn't on my clothing. Meant for hunters, it isn't easy keeping odors off that clothing until actually worn. Our soap, everything, signals we are in the woods.

I have used Sports Wash on my backpack.

I have put everything washed with Sports Wash in large bags meant for the food industry, then put on everything at the trailhead.

I think next time out I will have an Opsak inside a bear cannister, but would Sports Wash or Sink-the-Stink work on the cannister?

The bear cannister is required.

MuddyWaters
07-06-2016, 11:31
Not to extent of bears or dogs noses.

Might reduce detection range somewhat is all.

Which in itself isnt a bad thing, but its not a panacea.

Bear has been observed detecting mates...many miles away. Also observed detecting dead elk 3 miles away...and underwater in a lake.

We cant fathom what these animals smell when wind blows right.

If we have food, they know it.

Just to see deer 100 yds from me turn and run when wind shifts boggles my mind.

Ktaadn
07-06-2016, 11:49
Being able to smell everything in a 3 mile radius is one thing. My question would be how does their brain process all of that information? Maybe they can't. Sounds like an interesting research project though.

Connie
07-06-2016, 11:57
I don't want to be a research subject.. if I detect a bear or a mountain lion, I go back.

I have camped downwind.

Fortunately, that grizzly bear was a natural bear far from a national park. I was counting on that bear not having a taste for our food.

Odd Man Out
07-06-2016, 12:41
I got the sample pack of nylobarrier bags when they were sold by LiteTrail. I believe these to be the same as the bags now sold as Base Camp. I have never assumed them to be odor proof. The are NOT bear proof containers and do not expect them to be! However, I do believe them to be odor resistant and this is I think very useful and important.

Two years ago (before using them), I would pack all my food in Zip Lock bags inside my ZPacks CF food Bag. I also used a trash compacter bag as a pack liner for everything that needed to stay dry (quilt and clothes). I believe the trash compactor and zip loc bags are both polyethylene. At the end of a 4 day section, my whole pack smelled of food. I worried about the food odors contaminating my clothes and quilt. If I could smell it, I knew the bears could.

After that hike I got the odor barrier bags. The smaller bag is the same size as the food bag. I now use this as a food bag liner. The larger bag is the perfect size for a pack liner. It doesn't have a resealable closure, but it doesn't need to (the trash compactor bags didn't either). I just twist the loose end and tuck the trunk down the back of the pack. I'm not swimming with the pack so I don't need a dry bag. These bags are very thin and light weight, yet quite durable. I haven't weighed them but I am sure together, the two bags weigh less than a trash compactor bag. I have not had one break yet.

I believe that they have done a good job of blocking odors. I did a 4 day hike last summer and a 3 day hike this summer. At the end of both hikes, I have not noticed any odor in the pack (but by the end of the pack the inside of the food bag liner was noticeably odoriferous). Since I am using a liner for both the pack and the food bag, there are now two layers of protection between the food and the clothes/quilt. Tom Smith (noted bear researcher) says the bear's desire to avoid you is greater than its desire to get your food. While you can not eliminate food odor, taking steps to minimize it will assure that your own smell is what the bear notices first.

saltysack
07-06-2016, 13:26
I got the sample pack of nylobarrier bags when they were sold by LiteTrail. I believe these to be the same as the bags now sold as Base Camp. I have never assumed them to be odor proof. The are NOT bear proof containers and do not expect them to be! However, I do believe them to be odor resistant and this is I think very useful and important.

Two years ago (before using them), I would pack all my food in Zip Lock bags inside my ZPacks CF food Bag. I also used a trash compacter bag as a pack liner for everything that needed to stay dry (quilt and clothes). I believe the trash compactor and zip loc bags are both polyethylene. At the end of a 4 day section, my whole pack smelled of food. I worried about the food odors contaminating my clothes and quilt. If I could smell it, I knew the bears could.

After that hike I got the odor barrier bags. The smaller bag is the same size as the food bag. I now use this as a food bag liner. The larger bag is the perfect size for a pack liner. It doesn't have a resealable closure, but it doesn't need to (the trash compactor bags didn't either). I just twist the loose end and tuck the trunk down the back of the pack. I'm not swimming with the pack so I don't need a dry bag. These bags are very thin and light weight, yet quite durable. I haven't weighed them but I am sure together, the two bags weigh less than a trash compactor bag. I have not had one break yet.

I believe that they have done a good job of blocking odors. I did a 4 day hike last summer and a 3 day hike this summer. At the end of both hikes, I have not noticed any odor in the pack (but by the end of the pack the inside of the food bag liner was noticeably odoriferous). Since I am using a liner for both the pack and the food bag, there are now two layers of protection between the food and the clothes/quilt. Tom Smith (noted bear researcher) says the bear's desire to avoid you is greater than its desire to get your food. While you can not eliminate food odor, taking steps to minimize it will assure that your own smell is what the bear notices first.

Thx...your experience is exactly what I was thinking...pack liner and food bag liner....


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bigcranky
07-06-2016, 13:38
I've been using the Zpacks food hanging bag, PCT style, for a couple of years now. Probably 50 or 60 nights on the trail. The only time it was ever breached by a mouse was the one night I couldn't fit all our food inside the O.P Sack. Coincidence? Maybe, but anecdotal data works for me in this case.

AlpineKevin
07-06-2016, 15:27
I used to be in the drug business. Packing shipments cleanly was/is always a science. You can even go to drug forums right now and find many threads talking about the various techniques. Odor proofing does work, but the catch is if you get a single molecule on the packaging then it defeats everything and the dogs (or in this case the bears, can hit on the package). In the case of the drug business they use multiple layers with at least one being an air-free vacuum seal layer and the other being a heat sealed Mylar layer. And this is done in one or more "clean rooms" to ensure that nothing contaminates the packaging (again if anything comes into contact with the packaging its compromised). And bears of course have noses 1,000 times better than dogs. So in theory can odor proofing work? Sure, it's proven science. But in practice? With your grubby little camp hands not so much, but it still surely helps a great deal and cuts down on their detection range vastly. I've read several posts of people saying they had all their food in Opsack bags while in their canister and their canister was the only one not touched by bears in the camp. But I'm sure there have been plenty of bears who have had a go at canisters with Opsacks in them as well. Not fool proof but I'm sure they help a lot.

QiWiz
07-06-2016, 16:20
to be fair, the OPsack was a couple years old. Perhaps brand new ones are better.

I've used OP sacks for years and I'm sure they reduce odors, at least if the seal is carefully closed. However, over time there are smellable molecules that end up on the outside the OP sack as you put food into and take food out of the sack, so I believe they become more smellable over time. And bears have very keen noses.

Just last weekend I was on trail, with car parked in an area reputed to have porcupines that would chew on car hoses and wiring. So I broke open a plastic-wrapped new box of mothballs and used the whole box under the engine area to discourage them. You could smell the mothballs when you got within 30 feet of the car. When I finished the hike, I picked up the mothballs and put them back in the box, then put the box into an old OP sack for the drive home. Once in the OP sack, I could not smell them. Maybe a bear or a porcupine could. Just sayin' . . .

MuddyWaters
07-06-2016, 16:21
Thx...your experience is exactly what I was thinking...pack liner and food bag liner....



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Reynolds turkey bags are nylon, like nylofume, and make good, light foodbag liners. O.5 oz. Cuts down on smell, ziplocks are very permeable. Especially one with 5 days garbage it seems

I always use turkeybag to line my foodbag, close with rubberband. Food is waterproof, so dont worry about rain into hanging foodsack, even make hole in bottom to let it out.

May not do anything for aminals, but cuts down on what I smell for sure

saltysack
07-06-2016, 17:06
Reynolds turkey bags are nylon, like nylofume, and make good, light foodbag liners. O.5 oz. Cuts down on smell, ziplocks are very permeable. Especially one with 5 days garbage it seems

I always use turkeybag to line my foodbag, close with rubberband. Food is waterproof, so dont worry about rain into hanging foodsack, even make hole in bottom to let it out.

May not do anything for aminals, but cuts down on what I smell for sure

The base camp bags are fairly cheap.. Just ordered a 5 count for $13.99 off amazon...3 med and 2 large..ill use for pack liner and food bag liner.


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saltysack
07-06-2016, 17:15
I got the sample pack of nylobarrier bags when they were sold by LiteTrail. I believe these to be the same as the bags now sold as Base Camp. I have never assumed them to be odor proof. The are NOT bear proof containers and do not expect them to be! However, I do believe them to be odor resistant and this is I think very useful and important.

Two years ago (before using them), I would pack all my food in Zip Lock bags inside my ZPacks CF food Bag. I also used a trash compacter bag as a pack liner for everything that needed to stay dry (quilt and clothes). I believe the trash compactor and zip loc bags are both polyethylene. At the end of a 4 day section, my whole pack smelled of food. I worried about the food odors contaminating my clothes and quilt. If I could smell it, I knew the bears could.

After that hike I got the odor barrier bags. The smaller bag is the same size as the food bag. I now use this as a food bag liner. The larger bag is the perfect size for a pack liner. It doesn't have a resealable closure, but it doesn't need to (the trash compactor bags didn't either). I just twist the loose end and tuck the trunk down the back of the pack. I'm not swimming with the pack so I don't need a dry bag. These bags are very thin and light weight, yet quite durable. I haven't weighed them but I am sure together, the two bags weigh less than a trash compactor bag. I have not had one break yet.

I believe that they have done a good job of blocking odors. I did a 4 day hike last summer and a 3 day hike this summer. At the end of both hikes, I have not noticed any odor in the pack (but by the end of the pack the inside of the food bag liner was noticeably odoriferous). Since I am using a liner for both the pack and the food bag, there are now two layers of protection between the food and the clothes/quilt. Tom Smith (noted bear researcher) says the bear's desire to avoid you is greater than its desire to get your food. While you can not eliminate food odor, taking steps to minimize it will assure that your own smell is what the bear notices first.

What size you use for pack liner and food bag?


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Odd Man Out
07-06-2016, 18:25
What size you use for pack liner and food bag?

My food bag liner is 13.5" wide by 25" tall.
My pack liner is 20" wide by 36" tall.

both measured lying flat. both open along the short side

I got mine from LiteTrails before they disappeared. I suspect these are the same as the medium and large size sold in the sample pack as Base Camp, but I'm not sure. Maybe someone who has purchased recently can confirm the size of the new ones. I haven't seen detailed specs from Base Camp. Mine are a clear plastic and some of the pictures from Base Camp show a blue bag and some pictures show a clear bag, so I'm a bit confused. They do seem to resemble Turkey Bags so maybe they are the same material.

Odd Man Out
07-06-2016, 18:29
Also, the smaller bag weighs about 0.5 oz. The larger bag weighs about 1 oz.
I don't have a digital scale. Small weights measured on my analog spring scale are only approximate.

saltysack
07-06-2016, 18:52
My food bag liner is 13.5" wide by 25" tall.
My pack liner is 20" wide by 36" tall.

both measured lying flat. both open along the short side

I got mine from LiteTrails before they disappeared. I suspect these are the same as the medium and large size sold in the sample pack as Base Camp, but I'm not sure. Maybe someone who has purchased recently can confirm the size of the new ones. I haven't seen detailed specs from Base Camp. Mine are a clear plastic and some of the pictures from Base Camp show a blue bag and some pictures show a clear bag, so I'm a bit confused. They do seem to resemble Turkey Bags so maybe they are the same material.

They're green on Amazon....can't find a size listed other than med,lg,Xl

Dogwood
07-06-2016, 19:53
Absolutely, WHEN NOT CONTAMINATED ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE OpSACK BY ANYTHING THEY DO WORK. Sorry, placing an Opsack inside a backpack when the backpack is holding all manner of odors is no guaranteed "test" of OpSack's effectiveness or lack thereof. OpSack's do NOT work in and of themselves outside of a more comprehensive multi prong food protection approach encompassing a wider range of aspects. It's rarely about getting rid of all odors or animal attractants but reducing the risks through several considerations.

For me, when deciding to protect food from Grizz, rodent, wolf, etc it goes well beyond just a bear can, OpSack, etc. It's my contention too many see these as a one stop be all end all haphazardly do whatever else you want and blame it on the can, Opsack, bear bagging method(s), other storage devices etc.


I've seen ravaging rodents like rats, mice, raccoons, skunks, etc, insects, like big Hawaiian cockroaches/palmetto bugs, and both black and brown bears totally disregard a NEW PURE food filled OpSack moving right past it to another hiker's chow stuffed into a drawstring sack.

saltysack
07-06-2016, 20:29
Absolutely, WHEN NOT CONTAMINATED ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE OpSACK BY ANYTHING THEY DO WORK. Sorry, placing an Opsack inside a backpack when the backpack is holding all manner of odors is no guaranteed "test" of OpSack's effectiveness or lack thereof. OpSack's do NOT work in and of themselves outside of a more comprehensive multi prong food protection approach encompassing a wider range of aspects. It's rarely about getting rid of all odors or animal attractants but reducing the risks through several considerations.

For me, when deciding to protect food from Grizz, rodent, wolf, etc it goes well beyond just a bear can, OpSack, etc. It's my contention too many see these as a one stop be all end all haphazardly do whatever else you want and blame it on the can, Opsack, bear bagging method(s), other storage devices etc.


I've seen ravaging rodents like rats, mice, raccoons, skunks, etc, insects, like big Hawaiian cockroaches/palmetto bugs, and both black and brown bears totally disregard a NEW PURE food filled OpSack moving right past it to another hiker's chow stuffed into a drawstring sack.

What do you consider PURE foods?


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Dogwood
07-06-2016, 21:00
I was referring not to pure food but pure unadulterated by food odors new or well washed OpSacks.

Dogwood
07-06-2016, 21:08
What I was getting at is - great one has a canister, OpSack, is properly bear hanging, etc then yet fails to empty the crumbs from a Peanut Butter Cliff Bar or smeared Nut Butter packet from a hipbelt pocket, or have stored food wrappers by themselves in a rear shovel pocket all day, or just cooked dinner in their sleeping clothes while in their tent in their sleeping bag or has coconut oil lip balm smeared on gear that one is sleeping with, or just contaminated the oustdie of their OpSack with hands they made and cooked dinner with, and they have a have problems with wildlife. Well that isn't the OpSack's fault!

Odd Man Out
07-06-2016, 22:57
FWIW, in my exchanges with Tom Smith, he stated that there is too much paranoia about food scents attracting bears. He specifically identified the notion of "don't sleep in clothes you cooked in or even have them in your tent" as misguided. On the other hand, he did identify the use of food scented toiletries as problematic.

Connie
07-07-2016, 00:51
Tom Smith?

wannahike
07-07-2016, 06:11
.Just last weekend I was on trail, with car parked in an area reputed to have porcupines that would chew on car hoses and wiring. So I broke open a plastic-wrapped new box of mothballs and used the whole box under the engine area to discourage them. You could smell the mothballs when you got within 30 feet of the car. When I finished the hike, I picked up the mothballs and put them back in the box, then put the box into an old OP sack for the drive home. Once in the OP sack, I could not smell them. Maybe a bear or a porcupine could. Just sayin' . . .

Mothballs are a pesticide regulated by the EPA and it is illegal to use them that way, it is a hazard to people and animals and can contaminate the soil and the water supply. So just saying...maybe you should keep that to yourself. :-?

I did read a trail journal where a hiker was spreading them around and under the shelter to deter mice. I think I might have had a real problem with that person.

saltysack
07-07-2016, 09:29
Mothballs are a pesticide regulated by the EPA and it is illegal to use them that way, it is a hazard to people and animals and can contaminate the soil and the water supply. So just saying...maybe you should keep that to yourself. :-?

I did read a trail journal where a hiker was spreading them around and under the shelter to deter mice. I think I might have had a real problem with that person.

He said he picked them back up...what's the problem.....way worse things to concern yourself with..,


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QiWiz
07-07-2016, 10:49
Mothballs are a pesticide regulated by the EPA and it is illegal to use them that way, it is a hazard to people and animals and can contaminate the soil and the water supply.

Thanks for pointing this out. Was not aware of EPA regulation. I did pick them up, so none were left in the parking area. I do know of someone whose jeep wiring was damaged by animals in the very parking area I was in, who was then stranded for almost a full week before being able to get his car repaired and go home. What do you recommend to prevent this from happening?

wannahike
07-07-2016, 10:50
He said he picked them back up...what's the problem.....way worse things to concern yourself with..,


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Well he picked up what was left of them. The environment does concern me, I like being out in it.

saltysack
07-07-2016, 10:56
Well he picked up what was left of them. The environment does concern me, I like being out in it.

I get it....I'm a dirt worshipping tree hugger myself....all I'm saying is there are far worse things...


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wannahike
07-07-2016, 11:03
I get it....I'm a dirt worshipping tree hugger myself....all I'm saying is there are far worse things...\



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Yeah, there are

wannahike
07-07-2016, 11:04
I have no clue, maybe a shuttle? It would really suck to be stuck for a week tho.

Odd Man Out
07-07-2016, 13:11
Thanks for pointing this out. Was not aware of EPA regulation. I did pick them up, so none were left in the parking area. I do know of someone whose jeep wiring was damaged by animals in the very parking area I was in, who was then stranded for almost a full week before being able to get his car repaired and go home. What do you recommend to prevent this from happening?

https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/marmots.htm

35411

Vegan Packer
07-10-2016, 19:30
I got some of those Basecamp bags, and I tried one on a recent trip. Seems fine, but I only used it for two days.

My experience with OPSaks are that some of them would easily tear where you pull them apart to open them, and they are much heavier.

saltysack
07-10-2016, 21:09
I got some of those Basecamp bags, and I tried one on a recent trip. Seems fine, but I only used it for two days.

My experience with OPSaks are that some of them would easily tear where you pull them apart to open them, and they are much heavier.

Thx did u order multi pack? Looking to get Xl and med/large to line zpacks food bag..


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QiWiz
07-11-2016, 11:26
https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/marmots.htm

35411

I like it!
Wrapping your car in a tarp. What a great idea.

Jake2c
07-11-2016, 17:06
I've been using the Zpacks food hanging bag, PCT style, for a couple of years now. Probably 50 or 60 nights on the trail. The only time it was ever breached by a mouse was the one night I couldn't fit all our food inside the O.P Sack. Coincidence? Maybe, but anecdotal data works for me in this case.

I have had pretty much the same experience. In 4 months on the AT I ran across a couple of bears but they never showed any interest so I don't know how well these bags work, but mice and raccoons were a problem. Never had a mouse go after my bag that I was able to detect. People who left any food in their packs on the ground often had holes in them the next morning with mice chewing their way in. I accidentally left trail mix in an OP bag in one of my backpack belt pockets a couple of times and no mice, no holes. Could also be just lucky but I think they probably work to some degree.

Vegan Packer
07-11-2016, 20:03
Thx did u order multi pack? Looking to get Xl and med/large to line zpacks food bag.


I need to look around for the packages. I believe that Amazon has two different offerings, and I got both, and then I used one of the larger sizes. The good news is that one of the sizes that I bought works nicely with the ZPacks food bag. On top of that, I added a Simple Outdoor Solutions Outsak Spectrum, in size medium, that I put on the outside. My theory: The mesh outside protects from bigger critters, the ZPacks food bag protects from weather and birds, and then the Basecamp is the interior odor prevention bag. Some may find this to be overkill, but it is so much lighter than the bear canister that it feels like I am as light as air. :)

saltysack
07-11-2016, 20:33
I need to look around for the packages. I believe that Amazon has two different offerings, and I got both, and then I used one of the larger sizes. The good news is that one of the sizes that I bought works nicely with the ZPacks food bag. On top of that, I added a Simple Outdoor Solutions Outsak Spectrum, in size medium, that I put on the outside. My theory: The mesh outside protects from bigger critters, the ZPacks food bag protects from weather and birds, and then the Basecamp is the interior odor prevention bag. Some may find this to be overkill, but it is so much lighter than the bear canister that it feels like I am as light as air. :)

Thx..I was hoping the multi pack would have a Xl size to replace my compactor bag and a smaller one to line the zpacks food bag...can't find the answer online..


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Odd Man Out
07-11-2016, 23:46
This site seems to sell a sample pack of med and XL sizes, at least that is what the photo of the package says. Have not purchased from them so can't say. They are not expensive. Maybe someone can't try them.



https://m.summitracing.com/parts/bcp-f232335

saltysack
07-12-2016, 06:18
This site seems to sell a sample pack of med and XL sizes, at least that is what the photo of the package says. Have not purchased from them so can't say. They are not expensive. Maybe someone can't try them.



https://m.summitracing.com/parts/bcp-f232335

Thx...great I just order from Amazon...appears to be the same thing...


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Casey & Gina
07-14-2016, 07:22
Don't know how you guys see "years" of service out of these. On the OPsaks I have used the ziplock separates from the main plastic at the top in a matter of days. And or course they end up with tiny leaks, etc. all over too. Over $5 for a plastic bag that fails like you'd expect a plastic bag to - I'll never buy any more...

Odd Man Out
07-14-2016, 07:58
I only get out for one or two short nights per year. I've use my bags (pack liner and food bag liner) for 9 days of hiking over 2 years with no problem. They do not have a seal to fail. I just twist to close. After my last hike I washed the out and dried them. We I was putting them away I filled them with air and twisted them shut to see if the would hold air. They did so u know they are intact (at least mostly). They are wrinkled, but otherwise show no signs of wrarin out. This is obviously not the same use as a thru hiker, but for use, the package of 5 bags I got is going to last for many years.

Five Tango
07-14-2016, 08:03
I bot some opsaks or loksaks,cant remember but the top plastic edge goes quickly,making it difficult to get back in the sak.And the "lock" part of it is a joke compared to the new ziplock freezer bags.So I purchased a mixed option of base camp bags from Amazon.The box of five contains 2 xl bags and 3 med bags with a pretty substantial plastic lock for each.