View Full Version : Gear for the Whites in July
Hiking the AT in the whites in New Hampshire next week (July 17-13) and trying to decide to take a fleece pull over or not. I could take a long sleeve synthetic shirt and use my rain coat for warmth instead??
illabelle
07-12-2016, 08:24
We just got back from there. Did Pinkham to Franconia July 2-9. Definitely take a fleece pullover. You won't use it all the time, but you will likely need it. The summits can be pretty chilly, especially if the wind is strong (it's always strong) and if clouds/rain make things damp.
I'll be posting a full report soon, haven't had time to get it together yet.
I would take a puffy up to the Whites all year long. Do you think you can stay warm in a long sleeve shirt when its 35 degrees and a 40 mph wind? Prepare for below freezing weather anytime you go up there.
peakbagger
07-12-2016, 09:17
I live just north of Madison and Adams and trust me you need quite a variety of gear unless you are willing to head down off the ridge when the forecast is bad. Its generally too late to wait until it gets bad to head down. I recommend a fleece compared to a down jacket as even the Downtech "water proof down" is useless in windy rainy conditions. I find a wind block fleece with an oversized raincoat with full pit zips is about the best in windy rainy conditions. You should have enough gear to cover your all your skin. I carry a lightweight balaclava, glove liners and fleece mittens in the bottom of my day pack all summer and on occasion have needed them. Years ago I got mild hypothermia with the temps in the 60s and there was rescue last weekend for hypothermia off of Mt Washington and two near fatalities near Lafayette two weeks ago (they would have been deaths if not for thru hiker walking by). If I am dayhiking and the forecast is good, I swap out my fleece with a heavy weight polypropylene long sleeve top it is not as good as a fleece but with a raincoat its pretty good. I always carry a lightweight poly pro bottom. We are getting into thunderstorm season and when they blow in they come in quick and with them can come hail, temps can and do drop 20 to 30 degrees in minutes. The problem is folks plan on their thermal needs when they are actively hiking, what you need to plan for is the rare occurrence due to either injury or weather conditions where you are pinned down in the same spot for several hours.
It all comes down to plan for the worse, hope for the best. If the last two weeks are any indication, sun exposure, electrolyte issues and dehydration are the biggest things you may have to worry about.
nsherry61
07-12-2016, 09:19
I'm in interesting disagreement with the previous posts' comments about being concerned about being cold on the summits. I would probably NOT take a fleece if all I was doing is hiking the summits in the Whites in July. When hiking, I rarely, if ever, have more than a long sleeved pull-over and a wind shirt even down below freezing and with wind, because, frankly, I'm not spending enough time, stationary enough, to get cold. However, backpacking through the Whites I definitely wood take a fleece, because, I might want to enjoy lounging on a cool breezy summit where I would get chilled without one and more importantly, it's hard to enjoy the evenings if you are chilled, and a fleece or puffy is a great little extra insulation to make evenings and summits significantly more relaxing and enjoyable.
Typicalsloan
07-12-2016, 10:24
During the summer in the whites I usually take an lightweight puffy, light fleece hat, and silk weight top and bottom long underwear and end up using the puffy in camp if I get a little chilled and the silk weight top and bottom used for sleeping. The hat typically never gets used. If the wind is bad and chilling me at a summit I use rain gear as a wind break.
peakbagger
07-12-2016, 10:34
I assumed the OP was backpacking. No one including day hikers typically plan on being stationary in the whites in July or August in nasty conditions, nevertheless it happens and generally is not planned. Usually its due to someone is injured and on rare occasion lost. At best a rescue may take a minimum of three hours and in some cases much longer well after dark where radiational cooling will drop the temps along the ridgeline 20 plus degrees from daytime, during that time a stationary person is going to cool down quickly and extra clothing is needed. A backpacker is probably far better equipped for this than a day hiker. A wind shirt has close to zero insulating value and I expect that a long sleeve pull over is quite similar to my heavyweight poly pro top.
If there is need for NH F&G involvement, the lack of adequate gear is almost a guaranteed cause to charge for rescue and NH F&G specifically cites the "ten essentials" as the minimum gear year round http://hikesafe.com/index.php?page=full-gear-list. The current outreach effort at popular trailheads in the whites also recommends the same minimum gear. About the only excessive gear I mentioned is the liner gloves and mittens which I have used on several occasions during the summer when conditions were nasty.
The Ten Essentials
Map
Compass
Warm Clothing
-Sweater or Pile Jacket
-Long Pants (wool or synthetic)
-Hat (wool)
Extra Food and Water
Flashlight or Headlamp
Matches/Firestarters
First Aid Kit/Repair Kit
Whistle
Rain/Wind Jacket & Pants
Pocket Knife
Many will argue that that list is excessive and 99% of the time it is for summer hiking, but that 1% is when folks get hurt. Dayhikers can always elect not to go or cut a hike short but backpackers generally have less options (although sometimes heading down and riding out bad weather is the smart choice).
garlic08
07-12-2016, 11:25
I no longer carry a fleece or down anytime except for deep winter conditions. But that decision came after many seasons of careful experimentation on many trips. I'm confident in my ability to keep warm in my clothing when hiking, and to pitch a shelter and get in the excellent down bag I'm confident in keeping dry.
I think the answer falls into the "if you have to ask, better carry it" category. Better figure this one out for yourself. Everyone's different up there.
nsherry61
07-12-2016, 13:30
I assumed the OP was backpacking. . . A wind shirt has close to zero insulating value and I expect that a long sleeve pull over is quite similar to my heavyweight poly pro top. . .
And to the point, if you are backpacking, and you have a sleeping bag or quilt, and some kind of shelter, why would you be fussed about additionally needing a fleece in an emergency. I am not suggesting to ignore the 10 essentials, I am just suggesting that a fleece is not necessarily one of the ten essentials in this setting.
As for the utility of a wind shirt, I think that's been addressed more than enough in these forums and doesn't need to be hashed out yet again.
As for "a long sleeve pull over", yes, your heavy weight (or mid-weight) poly pro top is exactly what I was referring to. And yes, many of us are plenty warm into freezing weather with nothing more than a long-sleeved poly pro top and a wind shirt while we are moving. But, as you suggest, if you need to stop, you definitely need more. And back to the OP, does that "more" need to be an insulating jacket, and for some people the answer would be that they do prefer a warmer jacket, others of us address the same concern in other, lighter, and still very effective ways.
Snowleopard
07-12-2016, 13:37
Hiking the AT in the whites in New Hampshire next week (July 17-13) and trying to decide to take a fleece pull over or not. I could take a long sleeve synthetic shirt and use my rain coat for warmth instead??
Take at least one fleece; I'd usually take two if going above treeline. Less than one fleece, you're likely to be uncomfortable in good conditions and hypothermic if things turn bad. Bad conditions in July would be temp around 30F, heavy rain, 80+ mph wind. Read up on hypothermia.
nsherry61
07-12-2016, 16:00
Take at least one fleece; I'd usually take two . . .
And climbing Mt. Washington in January, when it is ranging from 0-15 degrees with 20-40 mph winds at the summit (i.e. windchill around -20F), I absolutely add my puffy jacket on top of my wind shirt after stopping at the top, cooling down bit and then starting down. Then, once at treeline I was back in my poly pro and windshirt to keep from overheating.
All of us are different. Take the fleece. It will minimize the argument and a fleece makes a really nice pillow. Then, at the end of the trip, you can evaluate your experience and make another decision, if you choose, for the next trip.
peakbagger
07-12-2016, 17:19
One of the issues with posting on open forms is we have no idea on the capabilities of the original poster and who might be reading the post and replies, therefore if in doubt the answers need to be conservative or cite and official source.
One of the issues with posting on open forms is we have no idea on the capabilities of the original poster and who might be reading the post and replies, therefore if in doubt the answers need to be conservative or cite and official source.
Exactly. Someone with experience would know what they would need to bring to hike on Mt Washington
Down puffy is great for camp but no good for hiking. Layering is the key when it gets cold and wet. You definitely want an outer layer that's windproof and somewhat water resistant if it's wet out. Nothing made of cotton.
Don't forget protection for head, face and extremities -- hat, gloves, neck turtle, and eye protection. Maybe even spares of some of those items.
I carry a synthetic flannel shirt in my pack year-round, on any kind of hike. It's the most useful and versatile bit of clothing in the whole kit.
nsherry61
07-12-2016, 18:26
One of the issues with posting on open forms is we have no idea on the capabilities of the original poster and who might be reading the post and replies, therefore if in doubt the answers need to be conservative or cite and official source.
Or honest and responsible, but NOT ridiculous over-caution that then leaves the reader with the same insight that abstinence-only education gives kids about avoiding pregnancy.
By the way, what is the "official source" on whether or not to carry a fleece while backpacking the Whites in July? Personally, I'd rather trust the experience of the WhiteBlaze community with its insight and discord to provide a much better idea of the range of options I might have rather than some "official source". Why are some people so afraid to offer responsible alternatives (or embrace the alternatives of others) instead of preaching an over-cautious preparation for perceived worst case scenario which clearly isn't the worst case, because worst case, you're dead. So, no matter how prepared you are, you can always die, the line for responsible preparation is not black and white.
Exactly. Someone with experience would know what they would need to bring to hike on Mt Washington
Someone with experience would also know that a rain jacket does not provide insulation. But, that doesn't mean you have to babysit this person and hide viable and workable alternatives while exaggerating the risks and dangers to scare them into carrying everything including the kitchen sink. Just keep it real and in context.
la.lindsey
07-12-2016, 18:42
Ok, but what if I'm experienced at hiking in the southeast and know what gear to bring in any season in VA/NC/TN/GA, but I'm headed up to VT and NH in two weeks?
Now, some of y'all may know what I tend towards cold, but the friend I'm meeting up there told me August is their hottest month, bring a quilt instead of a bag, and then turned around and said to bring gloves. I mean, I can put it together, it's just confusing.
(I'm leaning towards fleece and puffy because I know myself, but I'm open to one of y'all saying I'm an idiot.)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
peakbagger
07-12-2016, 18:44
The official source for recommended gear I cited in the whites is the agency, NHF&G that hauls unequipped butts off the summits every weekend like they have had to do twice recently for underequipped hikers with hypothermia. The WMNF uses a similar list in their recent effort to meet and inform hikers at major trailheads. Just because someone routinely gets away without adequate gear is not a great basis for establishing recommended gear. Break a leg and that's when the extra gear is needed. So far the number of posts by different posters on this thread seem to be more on the conservative side that than the minimalist approach. The nice thing about the whites is that the majority of underequipped folks live to tell the tale, we rarely hear about them but we do when on a rare occasion folks get hauled down off in a litter.
.... there was rescue last weekend for hypothermia off of Mt Washington and two near fatalities near Lafayette two weeks ago (they would have been deaths if not for thru hiker walking by.
Might you share some details on that-- especially the role the thru hiker played?
When I mentioned gloves, hat, neck and eye protection, etc. --
I probably should have added, "appropriate to the season." I hike the White Mountains year round. I carry a lot more clothing in winter, and of a different sort, than I do in summer. Light hat and gloves, in summer. Base layer, synthetic flannel shirt, nylon or GoreTex outer layer suffice in almost all conditions between, say, April and October. In winter months I bring more...
Extreme conditions are unlikely, but can't be ruled out. It mostly happens on the open ridges, but you won't be camping there any case. When extreme conditions occur, forward progress may be slow or impossible. "Shelter from the storm" may be impossible.
Might you share some details on that-- especially the role the thru hiker played?
The two who almost died were through hikers slackpacking. The other throughhiker who saved their lives had a tent and erected it for them and fed them.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/06/10/freezing-hikers-rescued-from-new-hampshire-mountain/KSM7m7BAsEf4f3Tz8MQ3AL/story.html
The two who almost died were through hikers slackpacking. The other throughhiker who saved their lives had a tent and erected it for them and fed them.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/06/10/freezing-hikers-rescued-from-new-hampshire-mountain/KSM7m7BAsEf4f3Tz8MQ3AL/story.html
Thanks. That one should be "required reading".