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lilgodwin
07-17-2016, 17:51
Started to look at Froggy Togg options and I'm not sure of the differences. Ultra, pro, etc.

What's the popular choice? I'm an average sized guy, 5'10 180lbs, looking for a fairly lightweight and very compact rain suit that breathes well. One thing I didn't see, hopefully I missed our, is an option to cover my pack. Maybe like a cape option that surrounds it? What am I looking for exactly?

Christoph
07-17-2016, 18:06
Look up Packa's. They cover the pack and act like a poncho. I've got a Frog Toggs jacket I use. While it's very light and fairly cheap, it doesn't seem to breath well. Hope that helps.

lilgodwin
07-17-2016, 18:14
Every thoughtful opinion/post helps! Thank you.

I prefer not to go the poncho method, but it's not really based on anything other than the idea that I believe it provides a little less protection, especially in a sideways rain with some nice winds. Been through plenty of Florida storms, so that's what I anticipate, even if only once throughout my trip.

Not saying I won't go poncho, just haven't thought/heard enough about either concept.

DuneElliot
07-17-2016, 18:38
Packas are not ponchos...they are like a rain jacket with a pack cover attached:

http://www.thepacka.com/uploads/5/3/8/1/53810399/4591221.jpg?204

AfterParty
07-17-2016, 18:39
I got frog togg ul but haven't tried them yet but it is pretty packable.

lilgodwin
07-17-2016, 19:02
Packas are not ponchos...they are like a rain jacket with a pack cover attached:

http://www.thepacka.com/uploads/5/3/8/1/53810399/4591221.jpg?204
I realized this after my response. Should have looked them up first. Thought I did and saw a poncho. Looks like it might be a winner.

lilgodwin
07-17-2016, 19:08
...I sitter hope I'm wrong, but are they only available from their website and for around $100?

If so, what a friggin ripoff! I'm all for entrepreneurship, but screw that.

AfterParty
07-17-2016, 19:49
My frog toggs were 20 at dicks

lilgodwin
07-17-2016, 20:07
Yeah, the Frogg Toggs are a reasonable sub $20 from what I'm seeing. What do you pair with it to protect your pack?

egilbe
07-17-2016, 20:11
I walked all morning in the rain. I got wet. No one died. Think of rain protection as something to keep you warm, not dry. You are either going to get wet from your own sweat, or the rain. Pick one.

egilbe
07-17-2016, 20:17
Yeah, the Frogg Toggs are a reasonable sub $20 from what I'm seeing. What do you pair with it to protect your pack?

so what if your pack gets wet? Take steps to insure the stuff in your pack stays dry. Pack covers are right up there tent foot prints as one of manufactureres way of increasing profit.

lilgodwin
07-17-2016, 20:30
...Take steps to insure the stuff in your pack stays dry...

And somehow you don't see this as one of those steps? [emoji23]

egilbe
07-17-2016, 21:09
And somehow you don't see this as one of those steps? [emoji23]

Your Pack is going to get wet. Accept that. Now that you understand your pack is going to get wet, what do you need to do to keep the stuff inside it dry. Pack covers only partially work. A packa comes the closest to solving the weakess with pack covers. You still have the problem with back sweat soaking your pack. So, nothing you can do can keep your pack dry.

Buy a pack that doesn't soak up water. Line it with a trash compacter bag. Put your valuables in the trash compactor bag. Much lighter than and better water proofness than a pack cover.

saltysack
07-17-2016, 21:25
so what if your pack gets wet? Take steps to insure the stuff in your pack stays dry. Pack covers are right up there tent foot prints as one of manufactureres way of increasing profit.

[emoji106]


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Slo-go'en
07-17-2016, 22:40
I finally got to use a Frogg Togg jacket at the end of my last hike and it was a marked improvement over the poncho I had been using. A fellow who was leaving the trail gave the jacket to me and it made the next few days much more tolerable, maybe even saved me from hypothermia. The problem with the poncho was it was nearly impossible to get over the back of the pack and set up properly without the help of another person, it wasn't much help with warmth and it didn't keep me very dry.

I was impressed with how well the jacket worked to keep me dry and the inside didn't feel "clammy" after hiking all day in a light to moderate rain. However, the material is pretty flimsy so it's unclear how well it holds up long term. I've seen some which were more duct tape then fabric. OTOH, they are cheap and easy to replace.

As for a pack cover, I prefer to use one. You can get away with a plastic trash bag pack liner, but it can develop tares and the pack will absorb some water which can leak into the liner holes. Of course, after a few days to a week of wet weather, everything is either wet or very damp anyway. But it's good to put off the inevitable as long as possible and a pack cover can help in that regard. It also gives you something to empty the contents of your pack onto when digging down to get the tent and sleeping stuff at the bottom of the pack. You don't want to put stuff down on wet or muddy ground.

rocketsocks
07-18-2016, 01:25
I finally got to use a Frogg Togg jacket at the end of my last hike and it was a marked improvement over the poncho I had been using. A fellow who was leaving the trail gave the jacket to me and it made the next few days much more tolerable, maybe even saved me from hypothermia. The problem with the poncho was it was nearly impossible to get over the back of the pack and set up properly without the help of another person, it wasn't much help with warmth and it didn't keep me very dry.

I was impressed with how well the jacket worked to keep me dry and the inside didn't feel "clammy" after hiking all day in a light to moderate rain. However, the material is pretty flimsy so it's unclear how well it holds up long term. I've seen some which were more duct tape then fabric. OTOH, they are cheap and easy to replace.

As for a pack cover, I prefer to use one. You can get away with a plastic trash bag pack liner, but it can develop tares and the pack will absorb some water which can leak into the liner holes. Of course, after a few days to a week of wet weather, everything is either wet or very damp anyway. But it's good to put off the inevitable as long as possible and a pack cover can help in that regard. It also gives you something to empty the contents of your pack onto when digging down to get the tent and sleeping stuff at the bottom of the pack. You don't want to put stuff down on wet or muddy ground.take one giant step forward as you launch the back flap of the poncho up over your head, an old timer showed me that move, seems simple and looks funny, but it works.

throw the poncho more up than back.

lilgodwin
07-18-2016, 01:44
I'm just about convinced that I can make my own "Packa". It's made from ripstop silnylon right? (https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/1-1-oz-silnylon)

Starchild
07-18-2016, 04:10
I used a cape with hood + rain hat with a brim to cover the pack to good effect of keeping the pack dry, A MYOG project. Cape draped over the pack and wrapped around the shoulders with side clips that I could attach to the pack straps.

Also I have had very good success with a $0.99 emergency poncho, better then the frog toggs, and does add warmth. While the OP mentioned sideways rain, yes some gets in, but frogg toggs do get puddles in the sleeves, lift your arm up (treking pole plant uphill) and get a stream of cold water run down your side. Was considering making a drain hole in them.

Also rain skirt, not rain pants, unless you need then warmth. the skirt will keep you dryer, or ever totally dry, and well ventilated.

Consider that staying dry, or limiting water inside is not a sealing issue, but a water runoff issue. Layer with a rain hat to start, hood under, and think roof shingles having water run from one surface to the next.

saltysack
07-18-2016, 07:14
I'm just about convinced that I can make my own "Packa". It's made from ripstop silnylon right? (https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/1-1-oz-silnylon)

The maker of the Packa had a big sale on seconds recently might be worth contacting....unless you are an experienced seamstress....If it's not made with duct tape its out of my league...id rather buy!![emoji16]


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Five Tango
07-18-2016, 08:52
Campmore has a pretty decent poncho bivvy for under $70 that I found to be adequate as it covers the pack when you put it on.

DavidNH
07-18-2016, 09:52
Only downside of frogg toggs.. is that when you have a heavy steady all day rain (or at least for several hours) the material soaks through and becomes a heavy sopping mess. Of course, the same thing seems to happen with the much more expensive gore-tex jackets. I have yet to find any rainjacket that is fully breathable and waterproof. Gore-tex is breathable---when you aren't exercising-- but carry a heavy pack up steep slopes in warm conditions and it isn't so breathable!

Kraken Skullz
07-18-2016, 09:56
Dutchwaregear.com has an Argon sil pack cover that weighs 60 grams (2ozs) and only costs $22. I highly recommend his stuff and you can't get a much better deal on pack covers than that. If you want other items, they have the rain kilts for $30 that is made from the same Argon sil material. Throw in one of those $0.99 rain ponchos and you are all in for $52.99. My experience with the Frog Toggs is that they are heavy and don't pack down as nicely as the items I mentioned above.

Another option is to get a nice rain jacket with pit zips to make sure that you can ventilate when it gets too warm. I have a NorthFace one that my wife bought me and it packs down into it's own pocket for storage. Not the lightest or the smallest, but I would prefer that over the stuff you get at the big box stores.

Zach ADK
07-18-2016, 12:47
I use a pack cover and while it is not definitive it certainly helps. I have an older external frame pack which means that the bag part of it is held away from my skin. The water runs down the back of my head and down my back and away without mostly getting over onto the pack. I know most folks use internal frame packs now and I guess that would be a different situation.
Zach

poolskaterx
07-21-2016, 17:27
Maybe I am the only one that didn't have a problem putting on a frogtogs poncho over my pack? I have a z-packs 52lzip pack and never had any issues getting the poncho on or off while hiking. I really liked the snaps on the side allowing me to have different options for venting: like unbutton and roll the front all the way up and use like a cape that covers my pack! Definitely not the most durable but on hikes with temps over 60 degrees in the rain it will be my go-to rain gear piece; I could pull my head into the poncho, take my pack off while being sheltered from the rain and grab a snack and then put my pack back on, pop my head back through the hole and be on my way- pack stays dry and I did too. I would love to find a poncho that had similar features that packed down better and was lighter.

MuddyWaters
07-21-2016, 22:19
so what if your pack gets wet? Take steps to insure the stuff in your pack stays dry. Pack covers are right up there tent foot prints as one of manufactureres way of increasing profit.

Yep.++

Only thing I put in small liner is quilt, clothing, sleep pad.
Other things can get wet. It wont hurt cookpot, or tarp.

Twist liner up good. Really good.
When you have water in your pack, and you will, water vapor will get everything wet. It doesnt have to be liq water. Especially if some things are cold from being packed up in early morning. A cold quilt is a moisture condenser. It needs to be sealed up airtight if theres water in pack. Vice versa happens too, when temp drops and theres a warmer trickle in the pack, condensation occurs on everything, pack walls, etc. Anything touching walls gets soaked.

Slo-go'en
07-21-2016, 22:33
Maybe I am the only one that didn't have a problem putting on a frogtogs poncho over my pack? .

Could be. I found it nearly impossible to do without a second person near-by to help. That poncho gave me nothing but trouble.

Wil
07-22-2016, 02:44
The packa is an overpriced piece of gear only for effete elitists who want to throw their money away. That's what people told me over the years and that matched my own perception so I never really took it seriously.

I got one on sale a few months ago. Wish I'd gotten one many years ago and even at full price it would have been well-worth it.

I still use an old Frogg Togs jacket though; good for breaks in the wind or very light rain that looks like it's going to pass quickly and you feel you might otherwise get chilled. Also if you're marginally-bagged and get a little chilled you can use it in the bag for an hour or so or even all night if you leave the front unzipped. But for prolonged rain the packa is amazing.

lilgodwin
07-22-2016, 15:21
I'm really contemplating making my own. Some basic sewing skills, material, elastic and string, maybe some velcro and/or zippers. Just not sure if it's the same material that's sold on Ripstop-By-The-Roll (1.1oz silnylon). Good to hear that the design is so good it's supposedly worth the cost.

Cedar Tree
07-22-2016, 16:09
The Packa has not been silnylon for about 7 years now. I use a sil/pu fabric which allows for seam taping. If you are serious about making your own Packa, I would suggest combining an existing jacket and packcover into a Packa. This is how I made my first prototype. All you have to do is sew the packcover to the back of the jacket and you have a Packa.
Cedar Tree

lilgodwin
07-22-2016, 18:10
Thanks for weighing in! Very helpful!

saltysack
07-30-2016, 17:28
Thanks for weighing in! Very helpful!

Why reinvent the wheel...buy it...they have sales often...


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Rmcpeak
07-30-2016, 18:46
1) Packas are a great piece of gear and worth the money imho, but probably not necessary for summer hiking.
2) If it's hot, you are going to be soaking wet anyway, either from the inside or outside.
3) On a recent 150+mile mid-summer hot weather section hike I took no rain gear other than a Patagucci Houdini (wore it once for 5 minutes one morning) and a ballcap. I got a few showers and one downpour on that trip. I just hiked through and enjoyed the rinse off.
4) In cold weather I like the Packa over a mid weight breathable fleece, with a UL down jacket available to throw on during stops and at camp. The packa is exceptionally dry AND well vented.
5) The Houdini or similar very light DWR wind shirt is a really useful piece of gear. In summer, it is my only "spare" clothing.

My $.02.

Greenlight
07-30-2016, 18:54
If you use the Frogg Toggs, while you're in Wally World, or wherever you are buying them for dirt cheap, head over to the hardware section and pick up a roll of clear Gorilla Tape. Put half of the tape on one trekking pole, half on the other. The stuff is durable and quite handy in many situations. It will extend the life of your Toggs, and you won't look like somebody's patchwork quilt with different colors of duct tape all over it. Unless you're into that look.


I finally got to use a Frogg Togg jacket at the end of my last hike and it was a marked improvement over the poncho I had been using. A fellow who was leaving the trail gave the jacket to me and it made the next few days much more tolerable, maybe even saved me from hypothermia. The problem with the poncho was it was nearly impossible to get over the back of the pack and set up properly without the help of another person, it wasn't much help with warmth and it didn't keep me very dry.

I was impressed with how well the jacket worked to keep me dry and the inside didn't feel "clammy" after hiking all day in a light to moderate rain. However, the material is pretty flimsy so it's unclear how well it holds up long term. I've seen some which were more duct tape then fabric. OTOH, they are cheap and easy to replace.

As for a pack cover, I prefer to use one. You can get away with a plastic trash bag pack liner, but it can develop tares and the pack will absorb some water which can leak into the liner holes. Of course, after a few days to a week of wet weather, everything is either wet or very damp anyway. But it's good to put off the inevitable as long as possible and a pack cover can help in that regard. It also gives you something to empty the contents of your pack onto when digging down to get the tent and sleeping stuff at the bottom of the pack. You don't want to put stuff down on wet or muddy ground.

Miles 2 Go
07-30-2016, 23:36
I've use the Frogg Toggs Ultra Light rain suit. The crotch ripped out on the pants a year latter but the jacket is still going strong. The pants ripped when I was squatting while filtering water so I think the extra stress did them in. I just bought the Frogg Toggs Pro Lite rain suit, it has snaps on the storm flap over the zipper and draw strings on the pants and at the bottom of the jacket. Still priced low at $25.00 and for a small/medium weighs in at 11.7oz.

Hosh
07-30-2016, 23:47
Yep.++

Only thing I put in small liner is quilt, clothing, sleep pad.
Other things can get wet. It wont hurt cookpot, or tarp.

Twist liner up good. Really good.
When you have water in your pack, and you will, water vapor will get everything wet. It doesnt have to be liq water. Especially if some things are cold from being packed up in early morning. A cold quilt is a moisture condenser. It needs to be sealed up airtight if theres water in pack. Vice versa happens too, when temp drops and theres a warmer trickle in the pack, condensation occurs on everything, pack walls, etc. Anything touching walls gets soaked.
Very few things have to be dry, sleep system, insulating layers, and sleeping clothes. Any attempt to keep your entire pack dry will fail in long periods of rain, who cares if your cook set is wet or your rain fly or your pack. Today is what it is, tomorrow maybe the same so focus on the vital few.

skinnbones
07-31-2016, 09:15
Look up Packa's. They cover the pack and act like a poncho. I've got a Frog Toggs jacket I use. While it's very light and fairly cheap, it doesn't seem to breath well. Hope that helps. My God, the price for a Packa caused me sticker shock.

Venchka
07-31-2016, 09:57
My God, the price for a Packa caused me sticker shock.

Price the Exped Ponchos.
Wayne


Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

Hosh
07-31-2016, 10:13
These http://www.reynoldskitchens.com/products/oven-bags/ plus Frogg Toggs are about $31. Both will last several seasons with a little luv and care, if not they look good with duck tape on them.

left52side
08-02-2016, 17:23
These http://www.reynoldskitchens.com/products/oven-bags/
I just replaced all my stuff sacks and dry bags with oven bags.
I even replaced my cuben dry bags with these and I saved A considerable amount of weight doing so.
These things are great and im glad I got turned on to them.
Also switched from A compactor bag to A MLD pack liner made out of A polycryo type material that is half the weight of A compactor bag,also use the frogg toggs and until they prove me wrong I am not dumping 100 plus bucks on A rain jacket.
John zahorian has used his same frogg toggs jacket for A tripple crown as well as the arizona trail ....