View Full Version : Ursack for your food bag?
Has anyone used this and how well has it worked for you? I have one, but so far I have not been in bear country on my outings so I have kept my food in my tent with me. I will NOT be doing that on the AT. I plan to do the PCT hang, but just curious if anyone has any good or bad experiences using the Ursack in combination with the PCT hang.
I think my biggest issues may be finding an appropriate tree/limb, making the perfect throw in under 100 tries, :o as I did not play softball in school, this could be quite the challenge, and waterproofing the bag. The top of it just doesn't seal tight so a rain storm in the middle of the night could make for a very wet bag to pack up in the morning. The food would be fine inside, but the bag itself would be soaked and heavy.
Any advice on a different bag for this purpose as well as horror and success stories on the Ursack is much appreciated.
I haven't used one, but I've read many of the multitudes of posts on this site and elsewhere that talk about them. From what I've gathered, an OpSack inside your Ursack keeps your food dry and almost odor-free. Best of all, they keep rodents and small critters out.
Odd Man Out
07-27-2016, 11:52
I use a Zpack Blast Food Bag. It is Cuben Fiber. They seem to be quite popular. There is a rumor that Cuben Fiber is resistant to rodents and other small critters that chew into food bags. However, I have not seen any reliable test of this hypothesis. They are waterproof, durable, and very lightweight, but they are certainly not designed to be bear proof. It comes with a bear bagging kit including a rock sack, spectra cord, and a carabiner (link below)
There was a recent thread on the use of odor barrier bags (link below). I use a Nylobarrier bag rather than a Opsack. I don't need a waterproof liner, but I think the odor barrier feature is an important benefit.
The Ursack is designed to be bear proof but not waterproof or lightweight. As Maydog points out you can use an odor barrier liner which is also waterproof which would be a good combination with the Ursack. Another advantaged of having an Ursack is you can use it in places where you can't hang food (not trees), such as the Grand Canyon. There are no bears there, but I here the rodents and birds are very aggressive and even if there was a tree, hanging a bag wouldn't stop them.
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/bear_bag.shtml
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/114950-Base-Camp-Odor-Barrier-Bags-vs-OPSak
Thanks Odd Man Out. I think I am going this route instead of my Ursack. It is pretty much bear proof, but its heavy and not waterproof. I fI hang correctly, I shouldn't need to worry about the bears, but weight and rain or definites so...
MuddyWaters
07-27-2016, 12:45
Thanks Odd Man Out. I think I am going this route instead of my Ursack. It is pretty much bear proof, but its heavy and not waterproof. I fI hang correctly, I shouldn't need to worry about the bears, but weight and rain or definites so...
It wont absorb significant water. Put food inside in turkeybag to keep dry.
My Ursack is my food bag. Keeps things simple. No need to worry about bears or rodents. The weight is worth it, to me. My food is important.
CoolBobby
07-27-2016, 12:48
My Ursack is my food bag. Keeps things simple. No need to worry about bears or rodents. The weight is worth it, to me. My food is important.
Agreed 100%
My Ursack is my food bag. Keeps things simple. No need to worry about bears or rodents. The weight is worth it, to me. My food is important.
But do you have any other issues with it not closing securely at the top? I am wondering about squirrels and raccoons and even just being infested with ants and bugs from the trees while hanging over night. obviously, I haven't done the hang thing before, so there are some unknowns for me. Also with the tie closure, how do you attach a carabiner to do the hang? My ropes are thick and cumbersome, so I don't think I could get a real tight tie to carabiner. Am I totally wrong about that?
daddytwosticks
07-27-2016, 16:20
Ursak Minor does a great job against critters IMHO. Follow the directions for sealing it and you'll have no problems. If you are hiking Georgia and stay around the shelter areas, they all have bear cables. Finding the perfect tree to hang can sometimes be a problem. Just another reason to tent around shelters. :)
I use the Ursak Minor as my food bag, PCT method, no carabiner. After tying the double overhand knot as instructed to close the bag, I tie a figure 8 knot through a permanent loop in the end of my paracord.
I've never had anything get to my food, but I have no idea if anything has tried either. The material doesn't absorb water and all of my food is in some sort of waterproof container already. You know, the peanut butter is in a plastic jar, the bagels are in a plastic bag, the KIND bars a sealed in their original packaging, etc. So, rain has never been much of a problem for me.
I use the Ursak Minor as my food bag, PCT method, no carabiner. After tying the double overhand knot as instructed to close the bag, I tie a figure 8 knot through a permanent loop in the end of my paracord.
I've never had anything get to my food, but I have no idea if anything has tried either. The material doesn't absorb water and all of my food is in some sort of waterproof container already. You know, the peanut butter is in a plastic jar, the bagels are in a plastic bag, the KIND bars a sealed in their original packaging, etc. So, rain has never been much of a problem for me.
So you've hiked the AT? Ever had any problem finding the "correct" tree/limb?
Uncle Joe
07-27-2016, 17:16
I uses an URSack with a OpSack inside. Not the lightest solution but to my knowledge nothing has tried to get in. I guess I was sold by the videos of the bears playing with one and not getting into it.
But do you have any other issues with it not closing securely at the top? I am wondering about squirrels and raccoons and even just being infested with ants and bugs from the trees while hanging over night. obviously, I haven't done the hang thing before, so there are some unknowns for me. Also with the tie closure, how do you attach a carabiner to do the hang? My ropes are thick and cumbersome, so I don't think I could get a real tight tie to carabiner. Am I totally wrong about that?
How are you tying it? There is no way anything is getting through that closure when its tied properly. I just tie it to a tree. No need to hang it.
How are you tying it? There is no way anything is getting through that closure when its tied properly. I just tie it to a tree. No need to hang it.
I wasn't tying it correctly. I just watched the video on it. I haven't been in bear country yet so I was keeping it in my tent so it wasn't an issue until now. but won't a bear just chew the bag if its just tied to a tree? I don't have the aluminum insert, so the bear may not actually get into my food, but biting the bag would just squish it to death on the inside and turn any chips or anything to dust, right?
I uses an URSack with a OpSack inside. Not the lightest solution but to my knowledge nothing has tried to get in. I guess I was sold by the videos of the bears playing with one and not getting into it.
but if you had a chip or a bar or a poptart in the bag that those bears were playing with... it would be a gooey dusty mess.
but if you had a chip or a bar or a poptart in the bag that those bears were playing with... it would be a gooey dusty mess.
Thats why there are sticks and rocks to scare the bear away with. I'm more afraid of critters. The bear would really need to spend some time to crush everything inside to dust. The idea is to not give a bear a food reward.
the rain issue: yes, your food inside may be inside opsaks and plastic vag, but the ursack itself might get waterlogged and heavy. maybe you can put it inside a plastic unscented garbage bag before tying it to the tree.
So you've hiked the AT? Ever had any problem finding the "correct" tree/limb?
I have not hiked all of the AT, but most of it within reasonable driving distance of MD as well as several other trails in the area. Yes, finding the right tree can be a challenge almost anywhere. It depends on the type of forest, age of the trees, and the terrain. With a little patience, I can usually find something. You will certainly want to look before dark and at least get your line up there. There have been times that I settled for just hanging it on the end of a broken branch that is 8 or 9 feet in the air. I always figured that was better than nothing.
The bottom line is 1 foot or 1 mile down the trail brer' bear is not going to be dainty about getting into your kit. Neither will brer' chipmunk, squirrel or mouse for that matter.
So it's worth taking some precaution. How much is up to you.
I have both the Ursack and Opsack and Zpack's Cuben Fiber bag. Hate the weight and clumsy-ness of the Ursack but Cuben fiber is _not_ tooth proof. Whoever said that is just gassing.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Berserker
07-28-2016, 12:20
Has anyone used this and how well has it worked for you? I have one, but so far I have not been in bear country on my outings so I have kept my food in my tent with me. I will NOT be doing that on the AT. I plan to do the PCT hang, but just curious if anyone has any good or bad experiences using the Ursack in combination with the PCT hang.
I think my biggest issues may be finding an appropriate tree/limb, making the perfect throw in under 100 tries, :o as I did not play softball in school, this could be quite the challenge, and waterproofing the bag. The top of it just doesn't seal tight so a rain storm in the middle of the night could make for a very wet bag to pack up in the morning. The food would be fine inside, but the bag itself would be soaked and heavy.
Any advice on a different bag for this purpose as well as horror and success stories on the Ursack is much appreciated.
First off let's get the "Lone Wolf" comment out of the way...you don't need a Ursack because you are going to use your food bag as a pillow. :D
Ok, now that we have established that we aren't using the food bag as a pillow I'll give my general advice on food bags on the AT. First off, several states on the AT have hanging cables, poles or bear boxes, so you don't need anything other than a plastic grocery bag for those at a minimum. For the areas where you are going to hang, my advice is to just use something like a sil-nylon dry bag. That's really all you'll need. You just need something that holds the food and is waterproof so everything doesn't get drenched. From my observations most people use nylon or sil-nylon stuff sacks or dry bags. I personally use an OR Ultralight sil-nylon 25 liter dry sack that weighs 92 grams (3.25 oz) on my postal scale.
As for trees on which to hang, that's not usually something that's too hard to find on the AT. You'll occasionlly get into some older growth forest where there are no limbs anywhere near the ground or an evergreen forest where a good branch is hard to find, but in general most of the AT (at least that I've been on) has ample trees where you can usually find a decent hanging limb.
FreeGoldRush
07-28-2016, 12:22
how often do mice get into food bags that are properly hung? What is the best solution?
Berserker
07-28-2016, 12:33
First off, several states on the AT have hanging cables, poles or bear boxes, so you don't need anything other than a plastic grocery bag for those at a minimum.
I need to correct this statement. What meant was you don't need anything other than a grocery bag for the bear box...you'll still want the waterproof bag for the hanging cables and poles.
FreeGoldRush
07-28-2016, 13:45
I need to correct this statement. What meant was you don't need anything other than a grocery bag for the bear box...you'll still want the waterproof bag for the hanging cables and poles.
I saw a YouTube video where a guy was hanging his pack on the bear cables, even on nights of pouring rain. He said it was a requirement in the Smokies. Is this true? Why not just hang your food?
how often do mice get into food bags that are properly hung? What is the best solution?
The first night after we lost our OutSak, mice got in 3 of our 6 food bags that were hung on the bear cables. For the AT, IMO, mice/rodents are a bigger problem than the bears. You need something rodent proof you can hang.
FreeGoldRush
07-28-2016, 15:09
The first night after we lost our OutSak, mice got in 3 of our 6 food bags that were hung on the bear cables. For the AT, IMO, mice/rodents are a bigger problem than the bears. You need something rodent proof you can hang.
Any any suggestions on lightweight and rodent proof food bags?
Any any suggestions on lightweight and rodent proof food bags?I used an outsak, but not the UL version. I wasn't sure on how much space we would need for multiple people so I went with the biggest they had. 2095 cubic inches @ 11.5 oz. The UL versions start at 2.6 oz.
http://www.simpleoutdoorstore.com/outsak.html
I need to correct this statement. What meant was you don't need anything other than a grocery bag for the bear box...you'll still want the waterproof bag for the hanging cables and poles.
But this is making the assumption that I would be camping near a shelter, which I will not be doing if at all possible.
The first night after we lost our OutSak, mice got in 3 of our 6 food bags that were hung on the bear cables. For the AT, IMO, mice/rodents are a bigger problem than the bears. You need something rodent proof you can hang.
I think that's because bear cables are near shelters, which are also known as "Mouseville". The mice know what bear cables are for and what hangs from them. There's no hiding from them anywhere near a shelter.
I think that's because bear cables are near shelters, which are also known as "Mouseville". The mice know what bear cables are for and what hangs from them. There's no hiding from them anywhere near a shelter.Good point, the mice also seem to be pretty picky, once the almonds were gone there were no more issues.
My Ursack is my food bag. Keeps things simple. No need to worry about bears or rodents. The weight is worth it, to me. My food is important.
Same here.
Berserker
07-29-2016, 10:23
But this is making the assumption that I would be camping near a shelter, which I will not be doing if at all possible.
Well in that case I would definitely recommend just using a lightweight sil-nylon dry bag or similar. Mice are a major problem at the shelters, and in my experience almost non-existent if camping somewhere off away from the shelters. They're still around of course, but they seem to congregate in heavily used areas.
I've camped out probably the equivalent of 5 - 6 months of nights on and off the AT over the years, and the only mouse problems I have had thus far have all been at or near shelters or heavily used campsites. I did stress "thus far" though because one thing I have learned is that unexpected things can happen at any time.
I just read recently where a sow and her cubs figured out how to get a food bag "properly" hung. Can't remember where it was. Pretty sure it was not the AT, but some park someplace else. Don't remember how long ago it was either, but man.... Maybe we should just sleep with all our stuff and run electrified wires around our camp at night.
Odd Man Out
07-29-2016, 12:53
.... Maybe we should just sleep with all our stuff and run electrified wires around our camp at night.
Not sure if you meant this in jest or not. But Tom Smith (well known bear researcher whose video has been posted on another thread - link below) has a lot experience with and advocates the use of lightweight electric fences for bear deterance, although I think they are used just to protect the food - not the whole camp.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/119549-Bear-Spray-Clothing?p=2076257&viewfull=1#post2076257
"will NOT be doing that on the AT. I plan to do the PCT hang".
You had a wining method, why pick a losing method?
Hang a food bag, and hang a bear.
K2 Travels
07-29-2016, 17:12
I have been using a ursack for years as my "food bag" and storage at night. I keep all my food in plastic bags separated by which day it's for. I don't use a typical food bag carry style, all my food is just in my bag with ursack rolled and pushed along the side of my bag while hiking.
At night all food and smellies go into ursack and I either PCT hang or tie it to a tree. Unless I am in grizzly country it just gets tied to a tree and I have never had an issue. Makes things so much easier with the ursack along. Believe mine weighs 7oz.
*Learn how to close your ursack and tie it securely. The closure method ursack recommends is very good, make sure you pull tight.
MuddyWaters
07-29-2016, 18:44
I just read recently where a sow and her cubs figured out how to get a food bag "properly" hung. Can't remember where it was. Pretty sure it was not the AT, but some park someplace else. Don't remember how long ago it was either, but man.... Maybe we should just sleep with all our stuff and run electrified wires around our camp at night.
Varying definitions of "properly hung"
But given enough time, a persistent young bear can get virtually anything hung in a tree.
On the AT I have used the Ursack Minor for a food bag, since it is varmint proof. It can be hung when concerned about bears as it is not bear proof. Very happy with it in Eastern woodlands. I do use an OP sack inside the Ursack Minor to reduce smellable quotient of the contents.
English Stu
08-15-2016, 09:47
I hiked a section of the AT a couple of days after hiking the JMT where I had to carry a Bear canister. When on the AT I did miss the canister given the hassle of hanging/ looking for suitable branches etc.
On an earlier trip in the Smokies I did share a Snicker bar with a squirrel, the stuff sack was on the cables
Being a tightwad I did make stuff sack out of auto airbag which I am understand is made from Kevlar. This will deter mice. I got the bag from a wreckers yard.
FreeGoldRush
08-15-2016, 22:26
For the AT... Based on the posts here it appears the most robust solution is a ursack minor to keep out rodents and an opsak to keep smells in. If I'm sleeping in the woods alone I really don't want to hear a frustrated bear underneath my properly hung food bag just 30 feet away in the dark. Is this the reason for the opsak? Please help me understand. I had planned on just a Cuben fiber food bag.
And finally, someone left an opsak review on Amazon stating that they now sleep with their food in bear country because the bears can't smell it in their opsak. that's trusting the technology just a little too much.
Berserker
08-17-2016, 12:41
I saw a YouTube video where a guy was hanging his pack on the bear cables, even on nights of pouring rain. He said it was a requirement in the Smokies. Is this true? Why not just hang your food?
I don't know that hanging the pack is a requirement in the Smokies, I think just the food and other smelly stuff (sunscreen, toothpaste, etc.) needs to be hung. That's all I've ever done when hiking in the Smokies. There's nothing wrong with hanging the pack too, but I wouldn't do it in the rain.
Berserker
08-17-2016, 12:49
For the AT... Based on the posts here it appears the most robust solution is a ursack minor to keep out rodents and an opsak to keep smells in. If I'm sleeping in the woods alone I really don't want to hear a frustrated bear underneath my properly hung food bag just 30 feet away in the dark. Is this the reason for the opsak? Please help me understand. I had planned on just a Cuben fiber food bag.
And finally, someone left an opsak review on Amazon stating that they now sleep with their food in bear country because the bears can't smell it in their opsak. that's trusting the technology just a little too much.
I may have just gotten lucky a bunch of times, but I have never had a bear hanging out under my hung food bag. As a matter of fact, up to this point I have only had 1 bear come into camp during the night (at Slaughter Creek in GA). That's not to say it can't happen and/or hasn't become more prevalent, but I think some of the bear fears have been blown a little out of proportion.
As to your question on the OP sak, yes the theory behind those bags is that if animals can't smell it they can't find it. I own and have used the OP saks before, and I'm not certain if they actually work as advertised or not. They definitely suppress the food smells to where I can't smell them, but that doesn't mean a bear can't smell it. When I hang my food I just put it in a sil-nylon dry bag.
MuddyWaters
08-17-2016, 13:01
I saw a YouTube video where a guy was hanging his pack on the bear cables, even on nights of pouring rain. He said it was a requirement in the Smokies. Is this true? Why not just hang your food?
No, you don't need to hang whole pack.
But if you put garbage bag over it, and clip to cable with carabineer, it's out the way, safe, won't be raided by mice, and your crap isn't strewn all over shelter in everyone's way. Full shelters have room for sleeping pad per person. No place to spread your crap around like some folks tend to do.