Enlightened Equipment vs Hammock gear quilts [Archive]

View Full Version : Enlightened Equipment vs Hammock gear quilts

saltysack

07-28-2016, 10:08

Hosh

07-28-2016, 10:40

Well, I only have an opinion on EE, a biased one at that.

Very well made, good Customer service and overall a great value.

The strap system works very well. I have always purchased the Revelation series, 1 Karo baffle and 2 current design. I think the ability to open the quilt or close the foot box allows greater flexibility over wider temps

Overall I think they are pretty true to their advertised temp rating, but I tend to sleep warm

Email Tyler at EE with your specific need date. He was able to expedite mine in time for a trip.

SWODaddy

07-28-2016, 10:44

Currently have 3 EE quilts in the family total. I agree they're rated conservatively for temperature. The straps are very nice for cold weather, but just get in the way on a lighter summer quilt IMO. Don't have a Hammock Gear quilt, but I looked at them as well and my recollection is that they were heavier with less options, but still looked well made.

DuneElliot

07-28-2016, 10:46

I can also attest to the quality and customer service of EE. I love my quilt (the Convert actually). Sorry I can't be of more help but I don't regret my decision. I bought a 10F and have only been cold one time...because everything got damp, so not the quilt's fault.

saltysack

07-28-2016, 11:05

Thx all.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tflaris

07-28-2016, 17:38

Between wine and I we have 5 HG quilts. Well made easy to adjust. Nice people to do business with.

TF

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tflaris

07-28-2016, 17:40

I don't always drink and answer questions. But when I do it's funny! Wife not wine!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Water Rat

07-28-2016, 18:04

Nothing but awesome things to say about my old-school EE Rev X! Great customer service as well. This is not to say other companies are not great - I just have yet to deal with a different maker of backpacking quilts.

If you are worried about lead times and have a specific quilt (style, fill, & temp) in mind, you might want to contact EE to see if they have one that has not yet been listed under "Ready to ship." A friend of mine totally lucked-out and scored her quilt that way. It was shipped the very next day.

cmoulder

07-28-2016, 18:07

I have 4 EE quilts and happy with all of 'em! I love the pad attachment straps which permit the quilt sides to be pulled in so closely that it becomes almost as effective as a sleeping bag. For really cold weather quilts, I would recommend getting it in the wide version to accommodate this technique. This also permits the wearing of a down parka and down pants to greatly extend the comfort range. Using this technique I've slept very comfortably down to -6°F in my +20-deg Enigma (along with a very carefully tweaked sleeping mat system, of course).

4shot

07-28-2016, 18:42

this is a typical gear discussion imo. meaning that A) people like what they have bought, B) have little or no experience with both (or all) of the brands being brought into the debate and C) affirms the idea that if you stick with a reputable company, you will be satisfied with our purchase. With that being said, i am happy with my HG stuff. As no doubt I would be if I had bought my quilts from EE.

HeartFire

07-28-2016, 19:04

I have an EE quilt, rated for 30* - I found it was good to about 45*! I generally turn into a furnace while sleeping, so I thought a 30* would be enough. it's not. I just added a couple of ounces of down to it, we'll see if it helps. Also, they are taking about 15 weeks to fill an order. I placed an order for another one, but had to cancel it. I would have gotten it when I returned from my trip.
I have no experience with the other company. I do have a Jacks R Better Quilt rated to 0*. If the EE quilt is not warm enough for my CT hike next month, I will send it home for the JRB quilt.

saltysack

07-28-2016, 19:48

I tend to sleep lil cold...supposedly the marmot helium was rated pretty accurate but I found it warm to around 30*....think I'll order the enigma at 10* from EE...hope they can fill my order as only have 5-6 weeks till the collegiate loop...they said should be able to fill.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

saltysack

07-28-2016, 21:16

Ordering asap...EE enigma 20*...I'm 5'11" 210lbs so going with wide but I'm on the border for going with long being a stomach and back sleeper.....anyone have any opinions here???

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Studlintsean

07-28-2016, 21:31

I have a 40 degree regular length and im 5'11. The length is fine for me. I'm assuming you will have head insulation.

saltysack

07-28-2016, 22:18

I have a 40 degree regular length and im 5'11. The length is fine for me. I'm assuming you will have head insulation.

Great thx....are u a stomach sleeper? Never thought about it but when on your stomach your feet tend to stretched out so actually lil taller....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Studlintsean

07-28-2016, 22:31

Great thx....are u a stomach sleeper? Never thought about it but when on your stomach your feet tend to stretched out so actually lil taller....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm a side, back, stomach, and everywhere in between sleeper. For this reason, I'll probably stick to a sleeping bag for non summer trips.

saltysack

07-28-2016, 23:21

I'm a side, back, stomach, and everywhere in between sleeper. For this reason, I'll probably stick to a sleeping bag for non summer trips.

Ha sound like me...that's the reason I'm tired of mummy bags...I get tangled and twisted up...the hood is biggest bit!?....

Yukon

07-29-2016, 08:32

Hammock Gear quilts are top notch! Adam and Jenny are great people to do business with as well, can't go wrong.

Just Bill

07-29-2016, 09:03

Any users have any advice between these two mfg. I sold my 15* bag and replacing with a 10 or 20 degree quilt. I'm a 5'11" 210 stocky build ground powder who sleeps lil cold. Tend to sleep on stomach or back on an xtherm. Typical cold weather sleep wear includes quarter zip cap 4 hoody, cap 3 bottoms, micro dome Beanie, wool socks and liner gloves. Also have UL down parka, Houdini and OR helium 2 jacket available but usually layer these over the dogs sleeping bag. Was sold on the hammock gear burrow 20 but after comparing to EE prices are very similar for a warmer 10* vs 20* burrow which doesn't include storage sack or pad attachment cords as std. Anyone try or have both? Lead time is a little quicker at HG(3weeks) vs 5-7 at EE.....any advise appreciated as must order by Monday so will have before my Colorado sept hike....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you ask the question here- the answer is EE
If you ask the question at Hammock Forums- the answer is Hammock Gear.

As you said-
HG doesn't offer all the ground sleeper functions you may appreciate (well done and several generations of use/feedback padstraps for ground use)
HG does offer a slightly more radial cut bag (like a Katabatic Gear) which is a nice feature in colder temps.

EE has their proprietary baffle system, which many feel is superior to a traditional baffle style (like HG or UGQ)- although that's a personal opinion.
If you don't want to play with your down as much- EE is better at reducing down movement (but still movable)
If you do like to shake or pat your down to the sides, or top to adjust the warmth- HG is better for that.

EE offers 0, 10, 20 options
HG offers 0 and 20- but you could overstuff a 20 a hair as that's an standard option they offer.

Other than that- you'd probably need a bit better apples to apples to compare finer details and it may simply come down to lead times.
Both are quality bags from solid cottage guys... In theory; EE comes from a backpacking background and HG from a hangers point of view- but Tim at EE hammocks and the guys at HG backpack so ...

I like EE's shell material better than Dutch's Argon .67... but I like RBTR Membrane 10 best (like the Momentum fabric from thru-hiker)
UGQ uses Membrane 10 in their stuff, but the lead times are pretty high there too- http://www.undergroundquilts.com/renegade/default.html

If you want to spend some big bucks- http://katabaticgear.com/shop/sawatch-sleeping-bag/
This is newer cottage vendor who makes some very well cut and thought out bags for a western traveler. Those who use them love them, but I'm not one of them so hard to say. For a true cold weather quilt though- might be one of those once in a lifetime buys that justifies the cost.

If you have a wide pad (large xtherm) then you will likely not miss the pad strap kit as much as someone on a narrow pad if that helps any.

Somebody above mentioned sleeping cold in an EE bag in Colorado...

Regardless of the bag you choose; any flatlander jumping in to a higher elevation trail will suffer from the elevation change on a few fronts. One of the problems encountered is a tendency to sleep colder than normal by a 5-15 degrees until acclimated, so plan accordingly. Until you've done it enough to know how it affects you- hard to evaluate a bag's performance when the heating element is the only faulty equipment. ;)

saltysack

07-29-2016, 10:33

If you ask the question here- the answer is EE
If you ask the question at Hammock Forums- the answer is Hammock Gear.

As you said-
HG doesn't offer all the ground sleeper functions you may appreciate (well done and several generations of use/feedback padstraps for ground use)
HG does offer a slightly more radial cut bag (like a Katabatic Gear) which is a nice feature in colder temps.

EE has their proprietary baffle system, which many feel is superior to a traditional baffle style (like HG or UGQ)- although that's a personal opinion.
If you don't want to play with your down as much- EE is better at reducing down movement (but still movable)
If you do like to shake or pat your down to the sides, or top to adjust the warmth- HG is better for that.

EE offers 0, 10, 20 options
HG offers 0 and 20- but you could overstuff a 20 a hair as that's an standard option they offer.

Other than that- you'd probably need a bit better apples to apples to compare finer details and it may simply come down to lead times.
Both are quality bags from solid cottage guys... In theory; EE comes from a backpacking background and HG from a hangers point of view- but Tim at EE hammocks and the guys at HG backpack so ...

I like EE's shell material better than Dutch's Argon .67... but I like RBTR Membrane 10 best (like the Momentum fabric from thru-hiker)
UGQ uses Membrane 10 in their stuff, but the lead times are pretty high there too- http://www.undergroundquilts.com/renegade/default.html

If you want to spend some big bucks- http://katabaticgear.com/shop/sawatch-sleeping-bag/
This is newer cottage vendor who makes some very well cut and thought out bags for a western traveler. Those who use them love them, but I'm not one of them so hard to say. For a true cold weather quilt though- might be one of those once in a lifetime buys that justifies the cost.

If you have a wide pad (large xtherm) then you will likely not miss the pad strap kit as much as someone on a narrow pad if that helps any.

Somebody above mentioned sleeping cold in an EE bag in Colorado...

Regardless of the bag you choose; any flatlander jumping in to a higher elevation trail will suffer from the elevation change on a few fronts. One of the problems encountered is a tendency to sleep colder than normal by a 5-15 degrees until acclimated, so plan accordingly. Until you've done it enough to know how it affects you- hard to evaluate a bag's performance when the heating element is the only faulty equipment. ;)

Thx JB!! Loads of great info! Since hearing great things about both I figured I'd go with the cheapest....EE enigma 20 in std/wide is lil better price including pad straps and storage sack....also like the fabric/color options better. Timing is tight but they said should be able to pull off. At 5'11" being a back/stomach sleeper I'm at the cut off for reg-long....what are your thoughts....reg vs long...I use the large xlite or large xtherm.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just Bill

07-29-2016, 12:26

Thx JB!! Loads of great info! Since hearing great things about both I figured I'd go with the cheapest....EE enigma 20 in std/wide is lil better price including pad straps and storage sack....also like the fabric/color options better. Timing is tight but they said should be able to pull off. At 5'11" being a back/stomach sleeper I'm at the cut off for reg-long....what are your thoughts....reg vs long...I use the large xlite or large xtherm.....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stomach sleepers tend to wash a bit (with your toes pointed the footbox gets longer)
Side sleepers can get away with a bit shorter quilt vs stomach and back sleepers.

But yer specific quilt- for a colder weather quilt go with a long. (I'm 5'10")
My standard quilt is a bit longer than EE because it's nice to have a few inches of quilt to roll over as a draft collar in general.
Their long is 7' if I remember right- and in colder weather especially- if you get a bad night the extra length can be used to form a hood that will let you push the temp rating a good 5* or more if you curl up a bit at little to no weight penalty. It's an ounce or so of prevention lighter than any other option- it also gives you a bit more down to shake down in a real emergency if you need to "overstuff" the quilt and ball up into a shortened quilt.

Not to confuse things too much- but if going wide long in EE- it might be worth a quick look at the convert series. When going below freezing there is still a lot to be said for being able to zip up completely and the extra ounce or two may buy you a lot of versatility for a relatively expensive piece of gear.

Hikingjim

07-29-2016, 12:52

cmoulder

07-29-2016, 14:29

Just Bill

07-29-2016, 14:34

I'm 5-9 and got the long (as well as wide) and am happy I did so. Still it weighs only 22 oz (626g), which includes straps. Mine is the simple 800fp GDD (grey duck down) with 10D material inside and out. I have yet to discover any significant difference between goose and duck down.... if they had told me it's goose I'd be none the wiser, based on performance. :)

Ducks simply don't naturally produce fine enough down to make higher fill power down.
650 (or so) fill duck down vs goose down- there is no functional difference besides the species.
850 duck down- doesn't exist in any measurable quantity so it's geese or nothin.

Although score a point for team duck; as the best down on the planet is Eider duck down- you have to murder an eskimo or rob a bank to buy it- so probably will not ever find it's way into any of our kits.

Just Bill

07-29-2016, 14:37

saltysack

07-29-2016, 14:43

Stomach sleepers tend to wash a bit (with your toes pointed the footbox gets longer)
Side sleepers can get away with a bit shorter quilt vs stomach and back sleepers.

But yer specific quilt- for a colder weather quilt go with a long. (I'm 5'10")
My standard quilt is a bit longer than EE because it's nice to have a few inches of quilt to roll over as a draft collar in general.
Their long is 7' if I remember right- and in colder weather especially- if you get a bad night the extra length can be used to form a hood that will let you push the temp rating a good 5* or more if you curl up a bit at little to no weight penalty. It's an ounce or so of prevention lighter than any other option- it also gives you a bit more down to shake down in a real emergency if you need to "overstuff" the quilt and ball up into a shortened quilt.

Not to confuse things too much- but if going wide long in EE- it might be worth a quick look at the convert series. When going below freezing there is still a lot to be said for being able to zip up completely and the extra ounce or two may buy you a lot of versatility for a relatively expensive piece of gear.

Thx again...the covert is $100 more....I'm maxed out...Between the new GG gorilla $195.00 and new quilt ($277) I'm done....I did shed over 1.75lbs from the kit.......

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

saltysack

07-29-2016, 14:48

I just bought a burrow 20. I borrowed one a few months ago and liked it, and I was thinking about the EE rev but when I e-mailed them they said "5-7 weeks was the absolute soonist", so I had to go burrow to make sure I had my quilt in Canada by mid-sept when I need it

Yep I only have lil over 5 weeks but they said in 2 weeks they would know if was going to be ready...I can cancel and order the burrow or worst case I can abuse the great REI return policy....[emoji51]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cmoulder

07-30-2016, 09:06

Oh and white vs grey down is cosmetic only...
Really only a recent thing as some of the newest shell material is so thin that you can see the down right through it and some fancy folks buying their $500 puffy to the mall in see thru hot lemon banana don't like the grey bits mottling up their radical color palette.

Once it gets up to 800 fp, that's enough for me... and yes, the grey bits can be seen clearly, but again it doesn't bother me. Funny, I was going to mention Eider (fp up to 1200 ci/oz IIRC) if anyone started pooping on my duck, lol. :)

DuneElliot

07-30-2016, 09:43

Once it gets up to 800 fp, that's enough for me... and yes, the grey bits can be seen clearly, but again it doesn't bother me. Funny, I was going to mention Eider (fp up to 1200 ci/oz IIRC) if anyone started pooping on my duck, lol. :)

Eider down is actually some of the best you can get.

saltysack

08-01-2016, 10:13

Oh and white vs grey down is cosmetic only...
Really only a recent thing as some of the newest shell material is so thin that you can see the down right through it and some fancy folks buying their $500 puffy to the mall in see thru hot lemon banana don't like the grey bits mottling up their radical color palette.

Thoughts on 850 down vs 950?

Just ordered the 20 enigma long/wide 20.79 oz in 850 or 19.22 in 950 $70 more.....thoughts...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Secondmouse

08-01-2016, 10:22

Ducks simply don't naturally produce fine enough down to make higher fill power down.
650 (or so) fill duck down vs goose down- there is no functional difference besides the species.
850 duck down- doesn't exist in any measurable quantity so it's geese or nothin.

Although score a point for team duck; as the best down on the planet is Eider duck down- you have to murder an eskimo or rob a bank to buy it- so probably will not ever find it's way into any of our kits.

my dad has an old canvas Eddie Bauer coat made with Eider down. I mean like 50 years old. do you think there's any hope that recovering this down to use in another project would still be worthwhile?..

Hikingjim

08-01-2016, 11:01

Thoughts on 850 down vs 950?

Just ordered the 20 enigma long/wide 20.79 oz in 850 or 19.22 in 950 $70 more.....thoughts...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

950 is not a very cost effective way to save 1.5 oz, but if you have cash to spare and want the lightest possible, then go for it

saltysack

08-01-2016, 11:57

950 is not a very cost effective way to save 1.5 oz, but if you have cash to spare and want the lightest possible, then go for it

Yep agree....think ill stick w 850...I've never had anything over 850....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just Bill

08-01-2016, 13:39

Short answer- the highest I would spend my personal money on is 850 fill.

Long answer- (cause I jest cant help meself):

There are many (outside the us) who debate whether fills of 900 or more actually exist.

The American's general fascination with specs (horsepower in cars, sports stats, take your pick) has led to a bit of a push here as well. The down is "conditioned" for the test, which generally means fluffed, rested for 24 hours, tested at the most optimal humidity, temp, etc. to produce the best possible results. Some folks across the pond are not too impressed with this method- though I'm not aware of anyone taking a 950 fill American down and say testing it to EN standards and re-rating it. Though I'm not enough of a geek to have looked too hard.

The mechanics of sorting down (and larger volume used overall) have led to more of the "perfect" clusters being separated out. So there is an improvement overall in the industry in producing (or rather extracting) the best possible down with little to no feathers. Basically; there are real advancements in down production in the last decade- mainly as a result of us damn yankees and our spec sheets.

Now in the real world...
You won't ever be likely to launder, fluff, rest, and condition your down for optimal results.
So the odds of you actually achieving 900+ fills in anywhere but basecamping the desert southwest are very low.
The finer and finer the clusters, well like any finer thing, it becomes more sensitive to the environmental humidity and how it's treated in general. Like say crushing it and crossing your fingers it remains strong enough to take it day after day.

It is interesting to note: the science behind the Primaloft down blend is that the primaloft portion bounces back (even when wet) to help re-loft the down after it being packed. Which is more or less the role that all those nasty, stiffer feathers played that were so carefully sorted out of the pure down clusters to get a nice loft in the lab. Basically meaning- the damn bird has outer feathers (no good), inner feathers (structure) and down (clusters) and each has a role to play.

Now the only reason to use a high priced fill- is to obtain the highest possible performance on a spec sheet. So odds are decent that your 900+ wonder piece was carefully calibrated to use the exact proper amount of down with little or no fudge factor. Which turned out not to work so great overall in the real world in large pieces like sleeping gear, so whether by choice or not, we started talking about adding overfill(overstuff) back into the design or as an add-on at checkout. Either to resolve this performance gap from lab to field, or to cover your butt if you were a vendor and wanted to ensure your bag met it's rating once it left your shop and ventured out into the real world.

So... if you plan to even slightly abuse your bag by using it and have the indignity to use it for more than a few days at a time, you may then reach a conclusion:

If I use 10 ounces of 900 fill (9000cuin) and need to add an ounce overfill (at my own expense) I now have 11 ounces of down filling 9000 cuin of shell at considerable expense.

So if I simply put 10.6 ounces of 850 fill down (9000/850) to fill the same 9000cuin shell;
Aren't I actually ahead 11.4g in weight, with a bag filled with fairly stout stuff not likely to fall apart on me at the first tough day trapped in my pack?
Don't I have now have enough money left over to buy a patty melt, a handful of pints and still leave a generous tip for Owen at the Inn at Long Trail?
Can't I simply enjoy said lunch without needing to sit in the laundry closet while I carefully dry my wonder bag in the dryer so it can "recover" enough to get a decent night or two out of it before it withers on the trail once more?

So yar- opinion only really- but 800/850 is plenty fer me. There's Guinness to drink and it's fillpower is never in question.

cmoulder

08-01-2016, 17:48

So yar- opinion only really- but 800/850 is plenty fer me. There's Guinness to drink and it's fillpower is never in question.

I always thought I was right, and this is as good an explanation as any I've read as to why. :)

I had a +20-yr-old Campmor down bag that IIRC was about 650 fp, and when I donated it to my friend's Scout troop it was still performing quite well. It will probably last another 20 years, but I got into UL and quilts and all that and just didn't need it any more.

left52side

08-02-2016, 17:11

It seems that the majority of responses have been aimed at EE,and I myself have found that there customer service was great.
I just could not wait the 15 weeks to order one of there quilts but plan on ordering A summer quilt or something from them .
I do however have A hammock gear burrow 20 that I purchased and to my surprise it was sent to me A week earlier than expected.(A day over two weeks)
I had so many questions on my quilt and purchasing it and I will say the folks at hammock gear were top notch as well.
The quilt arrived to me and so far it is absolutely amazing. It looks sharp and is well made .
Lofts great so far and seems to be very comfortable .
The weight on my 20 burrow in the stuff sack with the pad attachments and short wide length is 20.76 ounces.
So if you haven't made up your mind on the EE yet do not count these guys out for craftsmanship and customer service.