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View Full Version : Hilleberg tent is a pool ..seamgrip failed



Blommetje
07-31-2016, 11:21
Hey guys

Quick question.. just pitched my Hilleberg nallo gt 2 tent in my parents garden and flooded the ground tarp.
The seam in the inner tent floor is leaking like crazy.

I used the seam grip and it did not work.

So, could it be I did it wrong?
Can seamgrip by applied twice, just thicken the layer?

Any other tips on this?

Much regards, I'm having another quick dip...

Alex

Tipi Walter
07-31-2016, 11:55
Need more info. Did it leak thru the black floor or thru a seam on the floor?? Oh wait, you said the seam.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2015-Trips-161/On-Rocky-Flats/i-Gnr6mWV/0/XL/Trip%20162%20010-XL.jpg
Here's my Hilleberg Keron tent just after using McNett's seamgrip on the floor seam. It must be done on the outside of the floor, and it must be seamgrip as the floor is urethane coated and not silnylon (at least it is on my Keron). Plus you must seam seal all floor corners of your tent. Very important.

Tipi Walter
07-31-2016, 12:01
Also make sure you seal around the pole hoops as in pic (outside and inside). Use McNett's Silnet for this.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpack-2015-Trips-161/On-Rocky-Flats/i-wXmdhfm/0/XL/Trip%20162%20007-XL.jpg

Tipi Walter
07-31-2016, 12:04
Of course my tent is one of the Black Label tents (beefier) but the floor on your Nallo should be almost identical to my Keron's floor. I've had my Keron in all sorts of deluges and water pools and ground water, what I call Lake Effect. No leaks whatsoever. Hillebergs have the best floors on the planet. See below vid---


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10L6Y1FCnno

Tipi Walter
07-31-2016, 12:06
If it's seam sealed properly and it still leaks, give Petra Hilleberg a call (or talk to Shannon) and work something out. But who knows, maybe 2016 Hillebergs aren't like 2014 Hillebergs??

Blommetje
07-31-2016, 13:15
Well. Thanks for the reply.

I cleaned the seam, applied the seam grip - should be the right stuff - and fixed the entire seam from left to right. Dried for 24 hours and it's looks quite good.

Pitched it this afternoon and poured some water on the footprint. Within seconds it comes up through the seam. Corners are fine, it is just spot middle of the tent...

Can apply a thicker layer tomorrow ... will wait another 24 hours for it to dry and try again. Can I just add seamgrip or do i need to remove the old layer?

It is quite ****ty. I camp a lot in winter time and the tent is too expensive to just chuck in the bin. New inner tent isn't cheap as well. Quite the disappointment. . Hopefully it can be fixed.

Tipi Walter
07-31-2016, 13:52
First off, I hope you used McNetts (Gear Aid) seamgrip. Nothing else comes close. What exact seam sealer did you use? Give Hilleberg a call and tell them your problem. No floor should leak so readily. I had a problem with the elastic connectors on an older Hilleberg and they sent me a new inner tent for free, no questions asked. You obviously have pinholes around the seam. Hold the black floor up to the sunlight and see where the holes are.

Blommetje
07-31-2016, 14:09
I used mcNett Seamgrip, white/blueish tube. I applied it one the outside, but some people say it should be inside or even both sides....

I check it against the setting sun and no pinhole or any other obvious signs of leakages.

I applied it like this:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160731/bbfc6476a5062250d72dff742bee99c6.jpg
Perhaps I did it wrong?

Tipi Walter
07-31-2016, 14:15
You did it right. So when you place a pool of water under the leaking floor, does the water come in around the tape of the seam on the inside? Are you sitting on the floor applying pressure? (This is important to do to see if the floor fabric is really waterproof). Are your only leaks around the seam and no where else? It could be a flaw in the floor material.

Put the floor atop the pool of water but away from the seam and see if it still leaks (use body pressure for realistic test). If so, you've got a lemon with substandard fabric and need to call Hilleberg.

I'm not up to date on floor specs but the Keron has a triple coated 70 denier floor (thickness and weave) and feels rubbery. I don't know the Nallo floor specs but I believe it's 70 denier too with a lower threadcount. Does it feel rubbery and tough? Let's hope Hilleberg hasn't ditched their quality floors for lighter weights or lower quality.

I would email this entire thread to Hilleberg (USA division) and see what they say. Could you get a photo from inside the tent showing the leaks??

Blommetje
07-31-2016, 14:42
It does not feel as sturdy as I like it to be. The footprint feels the way you describe it... rubbery and thick. The floor of the inner tent feels significantly thinner.

I know about applying pressure to simulate body weight but that is not even necessary... I placed a towel and it was wet - not like after a shower but like falling in a lake - within ..say .. a minute.

I just removed the tent so I can't post another picture of the inside now.. but there are puddles.

It does not leak any other place, only on the seam.

I getting the tent now and will have another good look at the seam for pinholes...

[emoji20]

Blommetje
07-31-2016, 14:51
I'll apply a new layer of seamgrip tomorrow and see what happens. Really hope I get it fixed. . I love the tent. Heavy.. but nice

Tipi Walter
07-31-2016, 14:52
It does not feel as sturdy as I like it to be. The footprint feels the way you describe it... rubbery and thick. The floor of the inner tent feels significantly thinner.

[emoji20]

And this is probably the problem in a nutshell. I use an Akto which is in the same category as the Nallo (red label) and it too has the rubbery tough floor. I think old Hilleberg changed the specs and lost significant quality. Where did you get the tent? Sent it back for a full refund and if still tuned into Hillie pick one of their black label tents. (More weight).

Tipi Walter
07-31-2016, 15:02
Check out this---hit Read More on fabrics and compare specs. Your Nallo apparently has the same specs as my Akto which is hard to believe according to your description.

http://us.hilleberg.com/EN/about-our-tents/materials-uncompromising-quality/

Franco
07-31-2016, 19:39
Just guessing here but maybe the seam was not fully cleaned before application.
It should be done with isopropyl alcohol (but I use the local equivalent to your Coleman fluid)
If some sand/dust is embedded in the stitching it can start a capillary action that will transfer moisture from one side to the other.
It is just a guess...

Casey & Gina
08-01-2016, 18:22
I have a Keron and an Anjan, and have not seam sealed either at all. Even in a pretty massive deluge, the Anjan (lighter denier fabrics than the Nallo) didn't obviously leak, so I really don't think that the fabric denier is at fault. I had a bigger problem from splashback from the hard rain getting into the tent, a problem I can't solve with seam sealing, but which the Nallo's outer tent coming all the way down to the ground should address quite well. I don't doubt that Tipi's advice to seam seal the tent is good, and I really should do mine soon as I have SeamGrip and SilNet lying around waiting for the job to be done. However, my point is that even an unsealed tent shouldn't leak as you're describing. So as suggested above, I'd contact Hilleberg about it. Of course, it should be a problem easy enough to solve with SeamGrip, assuming you can pinpoint where exactly the water is getting through.

FamilyGuy
08-01-2016, 18:45
I have had 3 Hillebergs (Akto, Soulo, and Nammatj) and never seam sealed any of them and thankfully, never had any leaking from floors or otherwise. On the other hand, I have also never had any leaking from floors that were much thinner and with less hydrostatic head (although I seam sealed those - i.e. silnylon from Tarptent, etc). Having said all that, you need to email Hilleberg as it sounds like a replacement is in order. They are really great to deal with!

On a side note, site selection is key which appeared to be ignored in the video above.

Tipi Walter
08-01-2016, 23:29
Who cares about site selection when you have a tent that can handle any site you wish to use? It's called freedom, short of lightning blasts, falling trees or tornadoes. If anything, my video is proof of this because, as I said, not a drop of water came in thru the floor. The only people I hear talking about careful site selection are those carrying inferior shelters, especially tarps. Tarpists (and many ultralighters) elect to carry very light shelters and so of course must always consider careful site selection. It's like a mantra with them.

I carry a Keron tent so I have the freedom to set up anywhere and not be afraid of the wind or the rain or low spots or blizzards or whatever else. This extra weight gives me the freedom to set up wherever I want. Plus, many established campsites are on bare packed ground subject to runoff and as was mentioned, all this runoff off the tent fly has to go somewhere and no matter where you are set up, this runoff will work it's way down the fly and under the tent from one direction or the other. The only people who don't believe this have never camped in the mountains of NC and TN during a deluge rainstorm.

Hosh
08-01-2016, 23:39
Well I've been at high elevations, above treeline in storms spitting hail, snow, rain and locust in several different UL light tents and done just fine.

I did think about were to set up my tent, seems like a logical thing to do.

The beauty of backpacking is not packing your fears and letting things roll with the elements.

But then again, I am not a belt and suspenders kinda guy

Tipi Walter
08-01-2016, 23:43
Well I've been at high elevations, above treeline in storms spitting hail, snow, rain and locust in several different UL light tents and done just fine.

I did think about were to set up my tent, seems like a logical thing to do.

The beauty of backpacking is not packing your fears and letting things roll with the elements.

But then again, I am not a belt and suspenders kinda guy

Sounds like you found a tent that has been tested and trusted in all conditions. Question: If you thought about site selection (your second sentence), what spots did you avoid and where did you go instead??

Hosh
08-01-2016, 23:54
Normally I try not to set up in creeks or in lakes or on narrow ridges with precipitous drop offs. I used to avoid areas with beetle kill, but now carry a hardhat, not really just kidding.

I am I missing something or is the freedom to just flop any where worth 7 pounds.

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 00:07
Normally I try not to set up in creeks or in lakes or on narrow ridges with precipitous drop offs. I used to avoid areas with beetle kill, but now carry a hardhat, not really just kidding.

I am I missing something or is the freedom to just flop any where worth 7 pounds.

No, this freedom is worth 8 lb 10 ozs, the weight of my tunnel tent. Flopping anywhere is where IT IS AT. I've carried heavy packs for the last several decades and the older I get the heavier my pack. I'm used to it, but god forbid if a minimalist throws on my load, he'd collapse in a heap and give up the sport.

Hosh
08-02-2016, 00:24
Or he or she might throw out the dutch oven, get a reasonable base weight and become a real advocate for backpacking.

I have trouble separating the love of the sport, macho attitude , or down right stubbornness from you post and thought process.

Why carry a 9# tent in a low altitude environment, in the summer & shoulder seasons, in the southern states?

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 00:35
Or he or she might throw out the dutch oven, get a reasonable base weight and become a real advocate for backpacking.

I have trouble separating the love of the sport, macho attitude , or down right stubbornness from you post and thought process.

Why carry a 9# tent in a low altitude environment, in the summer & shoulder seasons, in the southern states?

I like being an Unreal advocate for backpacking. It keeps things interesting. "Unreal" meaning pulling long trips with a 50 lb food weight on uninterrupted trips. And it's not the 8 lb 10 oz tent which I find difficult to haul, it's the 24 days worth of food and fuel. And books. (The only time I really get to read is when I'm out). I read my stuff and burn it. Day 1 my pack could be 85 lbs. Day 20 it's 40 lbs. By then it feels like a daypack and I twirl around like a ballerina.

Why do I carry a heavy tent and/or pack? Because it doesn't bother me and I can stay out longer. I'm not on a forced march to get to Maine. I don't want to see a town or resupply every 4 days.

"Get a reasonable base weight and be a real advocate for backpacking" sounds an awful lot like the "fast and light" elitism so popular nowadays, as if we identify with a base weight instead of identifying with the outstanding backcountry we visit and how long we're out.

FamilyGuy
08-02-2016, 00:47
Who cares about site selection when you have a tent that can handle any site you wish to use? It's called freedom, short of lightning blasts, falling trees or tornadoes. If anything, my video is proof of this because, as I said, not a drop of water came in thru the floor. The only people I hear talking about careful site selection are those carrying inferior shelters, especially tarps. Tarpists (and many ultralighters) elect to carry very light shelters and so of course must always consider careful site selection. It's like a mantra with them.

I carry a Keron tent so I have the freedom to set up anywhere and not be afraid of the wind or the rain or low spots or blizzards or whatever else. This extra weight gives me the freedom to set up wherever I want. Plus, many established campsites are on bare packed ground subject to runoff and as was mentioned, all this runoff off the tent fly has to go somewhere and no matter where you are set up, this runoff will work it's way down the fly and under the tent from one direction of the other. The only people who don't believe this have never camped in the mountains of NC and TN during a deluge rainstorm.

So in essence, you pack your fears instead of using your head, reading the terrain, and setting up camp where you can avoid floating. Seems reasonable.

Ultralighter or not, proper site selection isn't a mantra. It is called using common sense.

Your video doesn't demonstrate freedom; it demonstrates laziness.

Hosh
08-02-2016, 00:49
You would have to clue me in on how a heavier tent let's you stay out longer, but I am pretty sure I won't understand.

Day 20 looks like a real manly task, I have lots of stuff, not sure it all adds up to 40 pounds, not really interested in finding out.

I am thinking about ballerina lessons, no just kiddin, I look horrible in a tutu.

Good luck, stay dry.

jeffmeh
08-02-2016, 06:37
Different strokes for different folks.... HYOH.

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 07:02
So in essence, you pack your fears instead of using your head, reading the terrain, and setting up camp where you can avoid floating. Seems reasonable.

Ultralighter or not, proper site selection isn't a mantra. It is called using common sense.

Your video doesn't demonstrate freedom; it demonstrates laziness.

You must've not read my post. I pack the gear needed to give me the freedom to set up anywhere my tent will fit. You interpret out of left field this freedom to be packing my fears---but it's just the opposite--- careful site selection is all about fear---the fear of too much wind, too exposed, too low, too wet etc. In fact, if a backpacker sets up on a Southeastern mountaintop in a high-wind blizzard he in my opinion is facing his fears. Why bail when you can see the best Miss Nature has to offer??

The main question a backpacker has to ask is this: Will my gear withstand an entire trip and will it keep me dry and alive no matter where I set up or in whatever way conditions change, while at the same time allowing me to hike every day. And conditions change. Example: Set up on an open meadow in quiet conditions. 3am a gully washing hellstorm hits with 60mph winds. Oops. I stay put and use all 14 pegs for my tent and go back to sleep. The Site squeamish types evidently will never get to enjoy open bald camping on a NC mountaintop because dangit there's always that pesky chance that things could get wild.

Your video doesn't demonstrate freedom; it demonstrates laziness.

This statement comes from way off like outer space. You have never backpacked with me and you have never explored the trails I have done and you weren't at that spot in the vid when the sky opened up. In fact, I don't know if you've backpacked and camped anywhere in the mountains of TN and NC or if you've gone thru all 4 seasons in all 12 months. You just use all the keywords as a defense against a style of backpacking you don't understand---"packing your fears" sounds nifty and hip and it's part of the Ultralight mindset as they use it often to describe heavy loaders; Ultraloaders.

There's a forum here devoted to Ultralight backpacking where you'll get your bellyful of "proper site selection" and "packing your fears". You may want to discuss things there with them.

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 07:14
You would have to clue me in on how a heavier tent let's you stay out longer, but I am pretty sure I won't understand.

Day 20 looks like a real manly task, I have lots of stuff, not sure it all adds up to 40 pounds, not really interested in finding out.

I am thinking about ballerina lessons, no just kiddin, I look horrible in a tutu.

Good luck, stay dry.

How does the weight of my tent matter in any meaningful way? Has this suddenly become a thread in the Ultralight forum? Is there a secret handshake all hip backpackers must know because they've pared down their pack weights to 10 lbs and carry 1 lb shelters? Are they therefore part of the in-crowd and are now authorized to talk about gear and hiking?

As Jeffmeh says, different strokes for different folks. Like ULers encouraging people to carry less, I encourage people to consider carrying more to stay out longer and to carry beefier tents if they want more room and want to be more comfortable in all conditions.

Maydog
08-02-2016, 07:16
I can't for the life of me comprehend why anyone would care what another person carries in their backpack. I don't want anything over 30 lbs total backpack weight, but it's no skin off my nose if someone else does. As with any area of life, a person can do whatever they want as long as they are willing to accept the consequences of their decision.

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 07:35
I can't for the life of me comprehend why anyone would care what another person carries in their backpack. I don't want anything over 30 lbs total backpack weight, but it's no skin off my nose if someone else does. As with any area of life, a person can do whatever they want as long as they are willing to accept the consequences of their decision.

Exactly. The consequences in this case is either having too little for conditions or too much for a comfortable and safe hike.

Gambit McCrae
08-02-2016, 08:09
I would contact Shannon at Hilleberg. Tell her the situation and they will replace the inner mesh/ fly. Do some more research prior to calling and find out exactly where the issue is at. Perhaps it is only in the inner, perhaps in the fly as well. I have had an Anjan, Nallo, and allak. All have been 100% spot on, bombproof with no secondary applications. Hilleberg will take care of ya

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 08:47
I would contact Shannon at Hilleberg. Tell her the situation and they will replace the inner mesh/ fly. Do some more research prior to calling and find out exactly where the issue is at. Perhaps it is only in the inner, perhaps in the fly as well. I have had an Anjan, Nallo, and allak. All have been 100% spot on, bombproof with no secondary applications. Hilleberg will take care of ya

This I know for a fact. I do not work for Hilleberg and I'm not sponsored by Hilleberg but as you say, they will take care of you. Need proof?

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/Tipi-Walter-Cranbrook/i-JTFkDFV/0/L/TRIP%20143%20012-L.jpg
One of the inherent weaknesses of the Hilleberg tents is their use of black elastic to connect the inner tent to the outer fly. Over time and many nights this elastic permanently stretches which sucks because it causes the stretched inner tent to sag and get smaller. It's happened in my Staika tent and my green Keron. I emailed this pic to Hilleberg and get this, they sent me a brand new inner Keron tent for free, a value of at least $400.

Other tents like Big Agnes are similar as my friend Patman is on his 3rd Fly Creek as they keep sending him new ones to replace his old ones with floor/fly holes.

FamilyGuy
08-02-2016, 10:17
I can't for the life of me comprehend why anyone would care what another person carries in their backpack. I don't want anything over 30 lbs total backpack weight, but it's no skin off my nose if someone else does. As with any area of life, a person can do whatever they want as long as they are willing to accept the consequences of their decision.

I agree except that Tipi trolls the UL forums (and BPL) all the time questioning why UL's don't pack their fears. Even his posts on this thread started down that rabbit hole. He can dish it out but can't take it.

In reality, most of us started out packing extremely heavy and eventually reduced our pack weight significantly so we CAN discuss both sides of the 'load' argument. However, Tipi has never packed UL so has no clue.

I have asked him for years to post his typical gear list but he won't. What is he afraid of?

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 10:31
Is this thread in the Ultralight forum?? And there's no mention of any of the content of my Post #27 regarding packing our fears.

Family Guy earnestly wants to believe his own fantasy. Where was he in 1980 when I was living in a tarp and carrying a very light pack?? He's not interested.

And my gear list has been posted repeatedly in my Trail Journals on various trips.

Oh and let's talk about belonging to the elite Watermelon Club---those of us who backpack watermelons into the wilderness---this pic will make ULers shake their heads and laugh in aloof smugness---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/20-Days-to-Panther-Branch-and/i-65wmjnq/0/L/TRIP%20136%20404-L.jpg
Pic taken on a 20 day trip thru the Bald River wilderness.

John B
08-02-2016, 11:10
Personally I don't care if you carry a #10 Lodge cast iron skillet -- if it makes you happy, then more power to ya -- but what I've always wondered is what type of job you've had for all these years that allowed weeks and weeks of time off to hike/camp? I thought my job was pretty decent for vacation time, but for me to take more than 14 consecutive days off per year is almost impossible. Share the secret -- what kind of work do you do?

rocketsocks
08-02-2016, 11:11
Ulterior light heads carry kiwi and baby corns...on the cob.

Sarcasm the elf
08-02-2016, 11:17
Personally I don't care if you carry a #10 Lodge cast iron skillet -- if it makes you happy, then more power to ya -- but what I've always wondered is what type of job you've had for all these years that allowed weeks and weeks of time off to hike/camp? I thought my job was pretty decent for vacation time, but for me to take more than 14 consecutive days off per year is almost impossible. Share the secret -- what kind of work do you do?

In an alternate life, this is the plan that I would be using to retire by my mid-thirties. It's a shame that I wasn't aware of it 15 years earlier...

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 11:55
Personally I don't care if you carry a #10 Lodge cast iron skillet -- if it makes you happy, then more power to ya -- but what I've always wondered is what type of job you've had for all these years that allowed weeks and weeks of time off to hike/camp? I thought my job was pretty decent for vacation time, but for me to take more than 14 consecutive days off per year is almost impossible. Share the secret -- what kind of work do you do?

I was a professional musician for most of my life, interspersed with living outdoors and then retirement. Some guys play golf all year, I backpack. There are more secrets to getting the time to live outside but I won't bring it all up here. Clue: Don't Reproduce!!

John B
08-02-2016, 12:16
I was a professional musician for most of my life, interspersed with living outdoors and then retirement. Some guys play golf all year, I backpack. There are more secrets to getting the time to live outside but I won't bring it all up here. Clue: Don't Reproduce!!

That's awesome. What instrument? Too late for me, though -- 30 years ago, I reproduced a daughter. She's now an ER doc at T. Jefferson Hospital, Philadelphia. Never golfed, though -- running is my activity of choice.

Casey & Gina
08-02-2016, 21:57
Guys, is it really worth derailing this thread so severely to criticize somebody's choice to carry more weight?

Tipi tends to take expedition-style hikes. That is, committing to being out for weeks at a time. Bailing out isn't always easy on such treks, and there may not always be a shelter a few miles away to rely on should one's tent fail on such a trip. True, not everyone may choose to hike the AT in an expedition manner, but others do to avoid stopping for too many resupplies, or like myself have reasons they must carry a significant amount of weight regardless of preference, so such input is valuable on this forum. Having a tent that you can trust not to fail in whatever conditions arise, and perform just as well after a significant amount of use, is often worth the little bit of added weight to many. True, the Keron is a bit of an extreme example due to how much it weighs, but it is a phenomenal tent that really makes that extra weight worthwhile. My most-used tent these days is an Anjan, and the 4-season Hillebergs have some advantages when the weather gets severe (I also own a Keron). Some can exchange their gear for lighter choices during certain months on the trail - others of us do not have facility for doing so, and/or feel that such activity takes away from the hiking experience we want to have. It wasn't so many years ago that 50 pound packs on the AT were the norm, and it's really not that difficult to adapt to carrying such a load...

It's not a matter of good site selection - choose the best site you want, but unless you're centered on top of a mound with every side of the tent facing downhill, when it rains hard and suddenly, the ground simply will not absorb the water as fast as it falls, particularly how far it runs off the sides of your tent. It will run down and come in under your tent from whatever side is the most uphill, even if only slightly. It may pass as quickly as it came, with the water sinking into the ground after a few minutes, but the question is - did your down sleeping bag get soaked in the meantime? Will you have an uncomfortable night sleeping on wet nylon even if it's warm enough for the wet bag to not matter? Also, as Tipi said, there's a lot of freedom to be had in not having to worry so much about site selection. I enjoy taking the Keron out in the winter, and pitching it high on a ridge where the wind is likely to be most severe, simply because I don't have to worry about the tent's ability to handle it. Last January I pitched the tent in such a manner and camped out in 30" of snowfall in 10 degree weather, even though there were two unoccupied shelters nearby. Likewise I don't think twice about pitching even the Anjan on a ledge on a steep hillside, where rainwater will run down and flood the ground on it's way past me, rather than continuing to hike up a steep climb after dark when I'm tired. Being able to stop and camp anywhere, or get in late to a crowded tent area and have little selection of sites remaining, is a welcome relief.

In my case, I carry the gear required for 3 people, as I have a young son who weighs 30 or so pounds, and usually requires being carried by my wife - in a carrier pack that itself weighs an ungodly 8 pounds. Nothing can be done to reduce that weight, so she carries the carrier, our son, and his few necessities; and I carry the rest, which generally comes in around 40 or 50 pounds without food, for a trip of more than 3 or 4 days anyways where I carry our full kit. That's a whole lot of UL gear choices for things that aren't so critical, and trying to be reasonably lightweight with the rest. But it's enough to cover our needs. To carry less would be unwise, as I would be putting my family at undue risk. There are times when I carry a UL tent, but only for short trips when I expect the weather to be reasonably good. And it's done with acceptance of negative tradeoffs. It's not a matter of packing fears - it's a matter of choosing tradeoffs that seem the best balance for our needs. I continue to learn what is and isn't needed and shave a couple ounces here and there, but there's only so much that's within reason to reduce when carrying gear for three.

Lastly, I'll have to respectfully disagree with Tipi's last suggestion above to not reproduce, haha! It certainly would make things easier, but even with offspring along for the ride, one can manage to live a lot of time outdoors. Where there's a will there's a way - it's all about what you set as the most important priorities in your life. Prioritize staying out, be willing to learn as you go, and you'll make it happen! Full time work is not really needed if you reduce your living expenses - go far enough with that and barely any work is needed at all.

MuddyWaters
08-02-2016, 22:12
Ive recall seeing Tipis list posted before on a winter trip. I remember that sans 8-9 lb tent, 5-10 lbs of books, 42 lbs food, it wasnt that heavy.

Nothing wrong with hiking your own hike. He goes out , and stays out, weeks in conditions that send 99.99% of other hikers to town, and revels in having wilderness to himself in those conditions. He brings what the trip requires for that in safety and comfort. Plus the occassional watermelon .

Hes not out to hike 15 mpd like most hikers focused on hiking all of the AT. Including the really mundane and urban parts.

FamilyGuy
08-03-2016, 14:46
Ive recall seeing Tipis list posted before on a winter trip. I remember that sans 8-9 lb tent, 5-10 lbs of books, 42 lbs food, it wasnt that heavy.

Nothing wrong with hiking your own hike. He goes out , and stays out, weeks in conditions that send 99.99% of other hikers to town, and revels in having wilderness to himself in those conditions. He brings what the trip requires for that in safety and comfort. Plus the occassional watermelon .

Hes not out to hike 15 mpd like most hikers focused on hiking all of the AT. Including the really mundane and urban parts.

Indeed, nothing at all wrong with it. But every second post he makes (okay, maybe third) is a thinly veiled negative or sarcastic comment about lightweight backpackers. So if he can do that, he should expect criticism coming the other way.

Regarding site selection as mentioned before, if one does not think that it is key, they have never backpacked above treeline in the Canadian Rockies.

Tipi Walter
08-03-2016, 15:48
Regarding site selection as mentioned before, if one does not think that it is key, they have never backpacked above treeline in the Canadian Rockies.

True, all my backpacking is done in the Southeast and just one trip in the Sierras near the Yuba River back in '89.

We don't have any areas above treeline in the Southeast and for the most part we don't have jagged peaks unsuitable for a tent or camping. But we do have wind and rain and lightning strikes similar to other places. And we have many exposed balds. We don't have mountaintops accessible only to mountaineers---and so of course we can hike up to most any top we want and camp. Site selection therefore hinges on whether we can find a decent open half-level spot big enough for our shelter. "Will that site work?" "Yes it will." That's site selection in the Southeast. (Or course no one is dumb enough to set up in a dry creekbed).

FamilyGuy
08-03-2016, 15:56
Well if you ever make it up here I could show you some pretty incredible vistas. Consider this an invitation.

(And then secretly I can go through your backpack and replace all of it with cuben fibre and titanium. Muhahhahhahh)

Blommetje
08-04-2016, 08:51
Well, the thread went a bit off topic but I just finished a new layer of seamgrip.

Let this dry for a day and will pitch the tent to see the difference. Fingers crossed! http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/4314c8729b46347d335f3277015c48f2.jpg

Tipi Walter
08-04-2016, 09:03
Well, the thread went a bit off topic but I just finished a new layer of seamgrip.

Let this dry for a day and will pitch the tent to see the difference. Fingers crossed!

Our discussion are organic living things and they go where they will. It looks like you really slapped the seamgrip on so we wait for a full report!!

coach lou
08-04-2016, 10:05
Camped with 'Casey & Gina' this winter........I am seriously looking at going Hilly for the winter walks!!!

martinb
08-04-2016, 10:52
OP, sorry to see your Hilleberg floor troubles. Sounds like a possible manufacturing defect. I'm sure Hilleberg will take care of you.

I've had my Allak now for about 8 years (guesstimating about 700-800 nights), using it in some truly serious storms, without a drop of water getting in it. No additional sealing applied. Although, I did recently seal the umbrella fly (abundance of caution I guess).

Tipi Walter
08-04-2016, 11:13
OP, sorry to see your Hilleberg floor troubles. Sounds like a possible manufacturing defect. I'm sure Hilleberg will take care of you.

I've had my Allak now for about 8 years (guesstimating about 700-800 nights), using it in some truly serious storms, without a drop of water getting in it. No additional sealing applied. Although, I did recently seal the umbrella fly (abundance of caution I guess).

Hey Martin, you've probably seen this pic but my buddy Hoppin John uses an Allak on occasion---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/Six-Days-with-Little-Mitten-on/i-HkJX3qn/0/L/TRIP%20108%20125-L.jpg
Hoppin John on Bob Stratton Bald, TN.

I've used a Staika for many years (bigger beefier Allak-type dome) and if you turn the umbrella fly upside down you'll see 6 long seams and these seams leak after long use and if the rain is hard enough. I always now seam seal these seams. I'll leave you with a familiar picture---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2008/Blizzard-on-the-Bob-and-the/i-dp7PR46/0/L/Trip%2085%20071-L.jpg

rocketsocks
08-04-2016, 11:15
Camped with 'Casey & Gina' this winter........I am seriously looking at going Hilly for the winter walks!!!
For thems that don't know, Lou sleeps in a "hooch" which is basicaly like leanin' up against an old tree with a poncho on.
Go for it Lou...if anyone can hump a hilly I know you can.

coach lou
08-04-2016, 11:32
For thems that don't know, Lou sleeps in a "hooch" which is basicaly like leanin' up against an old tree with a poncho on.
Go for it Lou...if anyone can hump a hilly I know you can.

I guess I'm getting soft in my old age 'Socks...........but, it does get alittle breezy at 3am in January, even for this hot blooded Eyetalian!

martinb
08-04-2016, 11:33
Hey Martin, you've probably seen this pic but my buddy Hoppin John uses an Allak on occasion---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2010/Six-Days-with-Little-Mitten-on/i-HkJX3qn/0/L/TRIP%20108%20125-L.jpg
Hoppin John on Bob Stratton Bald, TN.

I've used a Staika for many years (bigger beefier Allak-type dome) and if you turn the umbrella fly upside down you'll see 6 long seams and these seams leak after long use and if the rain is hard enough. I always now seam seal these seams. I'll leave you with a familiar picture---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2008/Blizzard-on-the-Bob-and-the/i-dp7PR46/0/L/Trip%2085%20071-L.jpg


Walter, yeah, I've seen that Allak pic. I think I've even camped in that same spot before, ha!.

I think I mentioned that one night, setting up in the dark, I missed an umbrella attachment hook. That night, it absolutely poured for about 3 hours. In the morning I get out of the tent and the umbrella had a small pond in it. Still not a drop of water got into the tent. BTW, I use the "regular" mesh inner these days. I'll only use the yellow for sub-freezing temps.

Tipi Walter
08-04-2016, 11:58
MartinB---Hilleberg Trivia---

In the old days (2005) Hilleberg used unworkable Staika umbrella fly toggles to attach the fly to the top of the tent and they failed miserably when wet and frozen and all six could not be removed unless thawed inside the mouth when packing up.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Gear-TheSevenHolyNylons/Bags-Pads-And-Other-Junk/i-zkbVzLX/0/O/staika%20toggles%20001.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Gear-TheSevenHolyNylons/Bags-Pads-And-Other-Junk/i-8p3WbL2/0/O/staika%20toggles%20002.jpg
Here are the fly connectors to a 2005 Staika. Once they froze solid the webbing could not be loosened enough to remove. It sucked.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Gear-TheSevenHolyNylons/Bags-Pads-And-Other-Junk/i-Wpjv5cs/0/O/HILLEBERG%20HOOKS%20002.jpgsmaller.jpg
I did this home repair using parts from another tent. Meanwhile they must've heard my complaints because in the next year they went with hooks like above. Just some Hillie trivia.

Tipi Walter
08-04-2016, 12:06
Hillie Trivia Part 2---

Beware the DAC 10mm Hilleberg poles! They are strong and neato and cool and work except for one small defect---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Gear-TheSevenHolyNylons/Bags-Pads-And-Other-Junk/i-kS3qqxG/0/L/DAC%20END%20CAPS%20001-L.jpg
The end inserts on the pole sections tend to work themselves out and I always have to hammer a few in every trip (I use my hand pruners as a hammer; or a rock). This has happened on DAC poles from both a 2010 Hilleberg tent and a 2015 model.

Sarcasm the elf
08-04-2016, 12:11
For thems that don't know, Lou sleeps in a "hooch" which is basicaly like leanin' up against an old tree with a poncho on.
Go for it Lou...if anyone can hump a hilly I know you can.

I guess that's one way to put it, though a poncho would be much faster to put up! Then again, considering that amazing WM bag he uses, he could almost get away with just rolling himself up in a tarp and cowboy camping in all but the worst winter weather.

martinb
08-04-2016, 13:17
Walter, man, I got mine at the right time. Sure would have not liked those toggles. Don't even like the two on there now.

Tipi Walter
08-04-2016, 13:26
Yes, they replaced 4 connectors with hooks but left 2 with the problem toggle-thingies. In their mind you could leave the umbrella flysheet attached to these 2 points while you remove the poles and take down the tent. And then set it up with the sheet still partially attached. Problem is, the external poles and pole clips are going every which way and I want the sheet completely removed and not have to work around the dang thing. And sometimes I camp w/o the fly sheet attached . . .

Casey & Gina
08-04-2016, 16:47
According to http://us.hilleberg.com/EN/faq/general-questions/ - "You do not need to seam seal our tents as we use a stitching method that makes the seams really strong and durable. We use a flat fell-seam in all our tents and our sewing machines employ cooling jets around the needles. This means that every stitch goes through four layers of fabric and the size of the hole is minimized by preventing heat-producing friction. The end result is a very precise, very reliable seam that has remarkable durability and water resistance."

Now reality may be a bit different, and seam sealing is probably the best idea, but if your tent is leaking as badly as it sounds, it seems it is not meeting the company's standards and they should have no issue replacing or repairing it for you.

Hosh
08-04-2016, 16:52
I agree, they should repair or replace depending on the warranty policy. Hopefully, treating it with seam sealer doesn't violate your warranty rights, not saying it does, but some things can't be done by the consumer like improperly washing or drying an item.

Casey & Gina
08-04-2016, 16:58
Other tents like Big Agnes are similar as my friend Patman is on his 3rd Fly Creek as they keep sending him new ones to replace his old ones with floor/fly holes.

Big Agnes is probably fine if you buy your tent new and have proof of purchase. If you got it used and have no idea when/where it was bought good luck getting them to do anything. I have a defective Q-Core pad from them that I can't do anything about. I haven't put Hilleberg to the test, but imagine their policy to be better in this respect.

Casey & Gina
08-04-2016, 17:01
I agree, they should repair or replace depending on the warranty policy. Hopefully, treating it with seam sealer doesn't violate your warranty rights, not saying it does, but some things can't be done by the consumer like improperly washing or drying an item.

http://us.hilleberg.com/EN/contact-support/warranty-repairs/

In addition to a lifetime warranty against defects, "Damages due to improper handling, accidents or general wear and tear can be repaired at a nominal cost." That's another thing Big Agnes won't do - I offered to pay them to repair my defective pad, and they won't.

TNhiker
08-04-2016, 17:08
That's another thing Big Agnes won't do - I offered to pay them to repair my defective pad, and they won't.



that surprises me...

they have replaced 3 of my leaking pads.......

and i have sent them a tent to get a zipper fixed, but i paid ten bucks for them to do that....

Casey & Gina
08-04-2016, 17:53
that surprises me...

they have replaced 3 of my leaking pads.......

and i have sent them a tent to get a zipper fixed, but i paid ten bucks for them to do that....

Well like I mentioned above, it's something I bought used and have no proof of purchase for, which is why I offered to pay in the first place. I'm sure they're better if you bought something new and have proof of purchase.

TNhiker
08-04-2016, 18:46
Oh---I did buy new but didn't have any proof of purchase..

i do know that they will not warranty any of their stuff sold through the rei garage sale...

Venchka
08-04-2016, 21:24
Well, the thread went a bit off topic but I just finished a new layer of seamgrip.

Let this dry for a day and will pitch the tent to see the difference. Fingers crossed! http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160804/4314c8729b46347d335f3277015c48f2.jpg

You say dry for a day and test. And FAIL.
Have you thought about letting the seams dry UNDISTURBED for a longer period? Maybe a week?
Wayne


Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

Blommetje
08-05-2016, 03:00
Well,

I tried it this morning. (so, no I didn't try drying for a longer period. The tube says 12 hours, the shop guy advised 24.. this time about 15 hours. First time it was about 2 months. Should be long enough I think;))

And guess what, it's a little better but still wet as hell! I'm not sure if it is water from the bucket or my tears, but damn I'm sad. I really hoped it worked.

I'm not sure you can see it on the picture but trust me, it is wet as hell...

[emoji20]

Sad Alex
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160805/bee09480cab7c125a96dec5165c1abf4.jpg

http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/57a43970882fc/20160805_085438.jpg

Blommetje
08-05-2016, 05:18
Short update.

Send an email this morning to Hilleberg. They are offering me to check the tent and if it is covered by warranty I will get an new floor stitched in the old inner tent.

If not covered, I need to pay 100 euros for return shipping and the repair costs.

The repair center is closed for now so I won't have the tent back before October, which bums me out also.

Anyway. .. I'm piss poor at the moment so I'm a bit scared ... 100 euro is a lot for me at the moment. And the outer tent is also not new. .. the fly is a bit iffy and perhaps not as sturdy as it used to be..

Secondly, it is fairly large and I was thinking about buying a smaller/lighter tent. This because I want to go hiking, not biking. Solo. So weight is an issue..


Any thoughts on this..?

A still very sad Alex


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

illabelle
08-05-2016, 09:32
that surprises me...

they have replaced 3 of my leaking pads.......

and i have sent them a tent to get a zipper fixed, but i paid ten bucks for them to do that....

Likewise, they repaired a cut in the tent (got too close to a barbed wire fence on a windy day!), and only charged $5.
Had a pole blow out at the joint, instead of a repair, they sent an entire new set at no cost.
No complaints here about Big Agnes.

FamilyGuy
08-06-2016, 20:18
Short update.

Send an email this morning to Hilleberg. They are offering me to check the tent and if it is covered by warranty I will get an new floor stitched in the old inner tent.

If not covered, I need to pay 100 euros for return shipping and the repair costs.

The repair center is closed for now so I won't have the tent back before October, which bums me out also.

Anyway. .. I'm piss poor at the moment so I'm a bit scared ... 100 euro is a lot for me at the moment. And the outer tent is also not new. .. the fly is a bit iffy and perhaps not as sturdy as it used to be..

Secondly, it is fairly large and I was thinking about buying a smaller/lighter tent. This because I want to go hiking, not biking. Solo. So weight is an issue..


Any thoughts on this..?

A still very sad Alex


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

It almost seems as if the fabric has no silicone on it. Bizzare.

yaduck9
08-07-2016, 12:07
Short update.

Send an email this morning to Hilleberg. They are offering me to check the tent and if it is covered by warranty I will get an new floor stitched in the old inner tent.

If not covered, I need to pay 100 euros for return shipping and the repair costs.

The repair center is closed for now so I won't have the tent back before October, which bums me out also.

Anyway. .. I'm piss poor at the moment so I'm a bit scared ... 100 euro is a lot for me at the moment. And the outer tent is also not new. .. the fly is a bit iffy and perhaps not as sturdy as it used to be..

Secondly, it is fairly large and I was thinking about buying a smaller/lighter tent. This because I want to go hiking, not biking. Solo. So weight is an issue..


Any thoughts on this..?

A still very sad Alex


Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


I suspect that you are approaching "decision paralysis". An option might be;

Decide if you want a different tent to match your new activity.

Put the 4 season tent up on Ebay and make sure that you honestly state the issues with it. Put up for a "Buy It Now" price with the option of "Make an Offer" ( do not put it up as a general auction ). You might put a link to this thread to show transperancy.

At the least this would be a form of action with little or no down side.

Some free advice ( of course, we all know what that is worth );)

Hosh
08-07-2016, 14:51
Well like I mentioned above, it's something I bought used and have no proof of purchase for, which is why I offered to pay in the first place. I'm sure they're better if you bought something new and have proof of purchase.

Wow, that's crazy, did you get it at an REI garage sale?

I have sent back several pads, no proof of purchase and got new a pad back

Hosh
08-07-2016, 23:09
I wonder if something like this is any good, https://www.rei.com/product/850168/nikwax-tent-and-gear-solarproof-waterproofing-spray ?

I have never had to use it, but Nikwax makes some good products for cleaning and conditioning down.

At 100 Euros is a pretty big gamble that they will decide to agree it's a warranty issue and cover it at their expense. At either outcome, you'll need a new tent since it takes Hilleberg 90 days to decide.

Being up front to resell it is the right thing to do, but not sure who would buy it under the current circumstances. You would likely take a huge loss.

Sounds like your wanting to go lighter, maybe keep it as a car camping tent. If it leaks too bad, you can bail out to your vehicle.

Blommetje
08-08-2016, 04:43
I suspect that you are approaching "decision paralysis". An option might be;

Decide if you want a different tent to match your new activity.

Put the 4 season tent up on Ebay and make sure that you honestly state the issues with it. Put up for a "Buy It Now" price with the option of "Make an Offer" ( do not put it up as a general auction ). You might put a link to this thread to show transperancy.

At the least this would be a form of action with little or no down side.

Some free advice ( of course, we all know what that is worth );)
Very good advice indeed.

I have a job interview Wednesday and if I get the job, I'll get it fixed. I'll have a bit more cash to go around and it's worth it.

If I get rejected, I'm going to sell it. Never been a seller on ebay before, so thanks for the advice on Auction vs Buy it.

Shame though, really liked the tent and am I bit disappointed in the quality.

Alex

MuddyWaters
08-08-2016, 05:49
Are you certain its not a fake?

Hesitate to even mention possibility, but everything expensive under sun is faked in china and sold on fleabay these days.

Hilleberg had some indication of some fakes back 10 yrs ago. Tents on ebay, but no dealers were missing stock. And no authorized dealers sold on ebay then.

This is why mfg need proof of purchase from authorized retailers for warranty.

Not referring to hilleberg, but lots of chinese toll mfgs produce nearly legit gear in quantities greater than the customer orders, then sell it out back door on black market. Sometimes exact same item, sometimes with corners cut. Sometimes exact same packaging, sometimes slightly different packaging. Theres a lot of fake gear out there, especially the North Face and popular brands. Most people could never tell difference.

Especially bad problem with electronics, since everything is made there today. Many times its the exact item, but has no quality testing and has higher failure rate than legit that were tested and the bad ones weeded out before shipping. In some cases they may sell items that didnt pass inspection instead of destroying them

Hosh
08-08-2016, 20:45
Interesting, the Chinese have little scruples and ignore many international laws especially those on copyrights and patents.

Hilleberg would be a likely candidate for copying, very expensive, very high margins.

Seems like if you weighted it and it wasn't the normal 9# or whatever the advertised weight is, that would be an indication it was a knockoff

cneill13
08-08-2016, 21:03
I could not imagine paying that much for a tent and then dealing with that level of stress.

Another reason I hammock camp.

To each his own.

Carl

Franco
08-08-2016, 22:53
Well Blommetje, looks like via the magic of Chinese whispers you have a fake Hilleberg.
Never seen one myself in spite of infesting outdoor forums (fora) for over 15 years but it had to happen sooner or later.

Venchka
08-09-2016, 09:16
Post #67. We kinda sorta maybe get part of the real story.
Good luck.
Wayne


Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

Just Bill
08-09-2016, 11:30
So have you tried using a silicone based seam sealer- SilNet or similar?

a- if this is a knock-off- it may not be a pure PU fabric.
b- if SeamGrip is peeling, probably not a PU fabric
c-looks pretty shiny to be a PU. Typically Sil is shiny and PU is Matte finish.
d-There are newer hybrid fabrics- with PU on one side and sil on the other, such as- https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/membrane-silpoly-pu4000
-if you have a hybrid- you could try seam sealing the other side and that would answer the question.

Who knows what you have- but I would dab a bit of silicone based sealer on before you do anything drastic or dump any more money into it.

MuddyWaters
08-09-2016, 13:40
No message

Hosh
08-10-2016, 09:32
Seems like the OP could send some pictures to Hilleberg and verify that it is a legitimate tent or a fake

Casey & Gina
08-14-2016, 18:18
I reckon the floor might not be leaking at all. If it's pitched in a puddle of cold water and it's humid out, that's condensation.

Here's inside my Anjan last night after a short rain storm. Not a leak:

35881

Since the outer tent doesn't come all the way to the ground on yellow label (3-season) tents, rain splashes onto the sides of the tent floor. This dampness, along with any passing breeze blowing into the bottom of the tent (as opposed to upper vents on a 4-season tent), combined with hot and humid conditions, made for fast formation of condensation inside the tent.

No tent floor can protect you from condensation if you camp in a cold puddle on a hot humid day with nothing else in the tent. ;)

FamilyGuy
08-14-2016, 18:21
I reckon the floor might not be leaking at all. If it's pitched in a puddle of cold water and it's humid out, that's condensation.

Here's inside my Anjan last night after a short rain storm. Not a leak:

35881

Never had that with any Tarptent. Ever.

Anyway, that likely is condensation but that is because the shelter isn't well ventilated enough. Hilleberg makes the best 4 season tents. Still not impressed with any of their 3 season offerings.

Casey & Gina
08-14-2016, 18:25
Never had that with any Tarptent. Ever.

Anyway, that likely is condensation but that is because the shelter isn't well ventilated enough. Hilleberg makes the best 4 season tents. Still not impressed with any of their 3 season offerings.

I agree FamilyGuy - The Keron performs much better than the Anjan in these conditions. I ordered a Nallo to use instead of the Anjan for when I don't want the weight and bulk of the Keron. No upper ventilation on the Anjan makes it a lot less comfortable. The Keron is a wonderful tent in any/all conditions.

A bare tarptent floor will condense just as much in a cold puddle on a hot humid day though. And without edequate breeze, any tent will have condensation on the sides of the outer tent wall (or only if single wall).

FamilyGuy
08-14-2016, 20:12
I agree FamilyGuy - The Keron performs much better than the Anjan in these conditions. I ordered a Nallo to use instead of the Anjan for when I don't want the weight and bulk of the Keron. No upper ventilation on the Anjan makes it a lot less comfortable. The Keron is a wonderful tent in any/all conditions.

A bare tarptent floor will condense just as much in a cold puddle on a hot humid day though. And without edequate breeze, any tent will have condensation on the sides of the outer tent wall (or only if single wall).

I have never experienced that but perhaps.

I have used both the Soulo and the Nammatj in the ddep winter (I also had an Akto but had issues with snow load). They were quite brilliant.

Blommetje
11-19-2016, 08:04
Ok, it's been a while but wanted to close this topic with the proper ending.

About two months ago I want to my local shop and dropped the inner tent with the email from Hilleberg. In that email they stated a new bottom to be sown in would cost me 100 euro's.

So, Waited and today got a call. Apparantly the whole thing did fall under the factory guarantee and i got a brand spanking new inner tent. AND THE WHOLE THING AS FREE!

So, i'm going camping next week and will be dry. So happy! Kudos for Hilleberg for this perfect service!

Alex

Tipi Walter
11-19-2016, 10:13
Ok, it's been a while but wanted to close this topic with the proper ending.

About two months ago I want to my local shop and dropped the inner tent with the email from Hilleberg. In that email they stated a new bottom to be sown in would cost me 100 euro's.

So, Waited and today got a call. Apparantly the whole thing did fall under the factory guarantee and i got a brand spanking new inner tent. AND THE WHOLE THING AS FREE!

So, i'm going camping next week and will be dry. So happy! Kudos for Hilleberg for this perfect service!

Alex

Of course you'd get a free tent because I agree with Family Guy, you apparently had a Hilleberg-defective floor without the urethane coating and somehow it got sewn onto your flawed tent etc. HOW this happened is troubling and let's just hope your new tent doesn't have the same uncoated leaking floor. Are you going to do another backyard test and see if the new one leaks?

Hosh
11-19-2016, 10:26
Well it's good they stood behind it, too bad most of the summer was lost as far as backpacking is concerned.

From a manufacturing quality control perspective, that's a big miss. Not familiar with Hilleberg tents, but I would assume upper tent body material got used as a floor.

Unlikely they'll come out publicly with the root cause. My guess is that this is not a single incident and there are probably more escapes.

Tipi Walter
11-19-2016, 10:34
There's also some indication on internet reviews and chatter that the zippers on some of their Yellow label tents are substandard and consistently break---with Hilleberg offering little redress or recalls or fixes. This is troublesome.

After a couple thousand nights with Hilleberg tents, I myself have never had a single zipper issue, but then I use black label tents almost exclusively.

Casey & Gina
11-19-2016, 11:21
LOL, upper material used as floor??? Hilleberg uses silnylon in red or green or sand for the upper, and thick, strong 70D PU-treated material in black fir the floor. Such a mistake is impossible.

It was never said how old this tent was. Since I last posted, I had Hilleberg replace a tent floor in a pre-2003 model Nallo I had which leaked through the floor. This is not a surprising issue for aged polyurethane fabric. The original fabric looked perfect but water came through everywhere.

There are cheap products to re-waterproof a tent floor as well as the upper. I opted for new fabric instead as I presume it will hold up longer.

To echo Tipi Walter's sentiment, I've spent about 125 nights in a Keron, Anjan, or vintage Nallo this year with my wife and two kids. All tents remain undamaged and looking like new. A claim I can make of no other tents I've tried. Speculatively criticizing something you don't have direct experience with is useless.

Hosh
11-19-2016, 14:59
LOL, upper material used as floor??? Hilleberg uses silnylon in red or green or sand for the upper, and thick, strong 70D PU-treated material in black fir the floor. Such a mistake is impossible.

It was never said how old this tent was. Since I last posted, I had Hilleberg replace a tent floor in a pre-2003 model Nallo I had which leaked through the floor. This is not a surprising issue for aged polyurethane fabric. The original fabric looked perfect but water came through everywhere.

There are cheap products to re-waterproof a tent floor as well as the upper. I opted for new fabric instead as I presume it will hold up longer.

To echo Tipi Walter's sentiment, I've spent about 125 nights in a Keron, Anjan, or vintage Nallo this year with my wife and two kids. All tents remain undamaged and looking like new. A claim I can make of no other tents I've tried. Speculatively criticizing something you don't have direct experience with is useless.

Deep breath, there that's better.

Maybe get a coloring book or some Play doh, find a safe zone!

Casey & Gina
11-19-2016, 15:15
Deep breath, there that's better.

Maybe get a coloring book or some Play doh, find a safe zone!

Oh look, we have a real badass here!

Franco
11-19-2016, 17:27
On snow I have seen condensation on a Tarptent floor.
Under my mat I would typically get a damp patch but not always, a mate of mine did get at times a largish wet patch.
We swapped tents so it wasn't the tent and at times we both used the same type of mat (Exped 7)
Possibly it was because he slept a lot warmer than me and was about 20 lbs heavier too.