PDA

View Full Version : I have know idea what I'm doing wrong



skinnbones
08-01-2016, 13:22
I can't seem to fit everything into my 65L pack. I don't get it. I only have my tent, rain gear, sleeping bag, pad, and some clothes. I have watched videos and read tips on this forum on how to pack, yet I'm still running out of room. Still need to purchase boots and stove. I have know idea what I'm doing wrong.

On a side note; I have 2 pair of socks, 1 pair of sock liners, camp shoes / water crossing shoes, 1 fleece jacket, 1 wool sweater, 1 pair of trekking pants, 1 wind breaker, 1 pair of long johns, 2 pair of underwear, and 2 shirts. This doesn't seem like an overkill of clothing. Any tips?

Mouser999
08-01-2016, 13:32
I spent 8 days with all my gear and food in a 50 liter bag. Are you compressing your stuff? I had about the same amount of clothes you are bringing. Lay everything out a see what you might not need or can back better

KidA24
08-01-2016, 13:35
A picture is worth 1,000 words. What pack do you have?

I put my sleeping bag uncompressed into the bottom of my bag (in a loose sack to keep it clean) and let it fill in all the gaps, instead of it being a brick in the bottom.

skinnbones
08-01-2016, 13:36
I spent 8 days with all my gear and food in a 50 liter bag. Are you compressing your stuff? I had about the same amount of clothes you are bringing. Lay everything out a see what you might not need or can back better Sleeping bag is in a compression sack. Do I need to compress my tent? clothes are in dry bags.

HDLV
08-01-2016, 13:36
You might want to try the trashcompactet method and shove your sleeping bag into the bottom of your pack without a stuff sack. That way everything else can sink into it rather than sitting into of a big hard block.

skinnbones
08-01-2016, 13:40
A picture is worth 1,000 words. What pack do you have?

I put my sleeping bag uncompressed into the bottom of my bag (in a loose sack to keep it clean) and let it fill in all the gaps, instead of it being a brick in the bottom.Gregory 65 Baltoro. Right now tent is loose at bottom of pack, under my trash bag liner.

skinnbones
08-01-2016, 13:43
You might want to try the trashcompactet method and shove your sleeping bag into the bottom of your pack without a stuff sack. That way everything else can sink into it rather than sitting into of a big hard block.I have my pack lined with the trash bag. I had tent loose under the bottom of trash bag. I will try that again. Thanks.

TKE402
08-01-2016, 13:45
Are you taking the air out of the dry sacks so that they are not like big balloons? Also I attach my tent horizontally to the outside bottom of my pack. I also have a 65 liter pack. More than enough space for a week out. Additionally what type of sleeping bag do you have? I switched mine a couple of years ago and gain a lot more space because it was less material than my previous bag. Also when and where are you hiking? For example having a fleece and sweater is overkill in certain sections during the summer. I just did a good chunk of MA and I had to sleep on top of my bag in my underwear because it was so hot out.

Gambit McCrae
08-01-2016, 13:46
Lay out all your stuff, as it is ready to go into the pack. (compressed if that is how you will carry it). And share a picture of what that looks like

Are you trying to put your tent in your pack or strapped to the outside?

How big is your sleeping bag?

how much additional clothing/ food are you taking?

Does your pack have a sleeping bag compartment in the bottom that is not being utilized?

moldy
08-01-2016, 13:48
You need better help. Call the REI store in Orlando and find out when you can bring all your stuff in to talk to a pack guy. Get your straps adjusted at the same time.

Tipi Walter
08-01-2016, 14:15
First off, I carry a tremendous amount of crap and know you'll get better pack usage if you strap your tent and sleeping pad and water bottles etc to the outside of your pack. Even get a long narrow Thermarest-kind of stuff sack and stuff it with unused clothing and strap that onto the outside of your pack. Otherwise, where the heck are you going to put your food and fuel and stove?

You don't mention if you're planning a one-nighter, a weekend, 10 days or a 21 day trip.

egilbe
08-01-2016, 14:23
On a side note; I have 2 pair of socks, 1 pair of sock liners, camp shoes / water crossing shoes, 1 fleece jacket, 1 wool sweater, 1 pair of trekking pants, 1 wind breaker, 1 pair of long johns, 2 pair of underwear, and 2 shirts. This doesn't seem like an overkill of clothing. Any tips?

Ditch the wool sweater. You have a fleece jacket. Are you wearing your trekking pants? Going around naked on the bottom half? No need to put them in your pack. Either wear them, or leave them home. Only need one pair of underwear. You have long johns. Only need one shirt. You will be wearing that.


There is a reason people say to buy your pack last.

Gambit McCrae
08-01-2016, 14:28
You need better help. Call the REI store in Orlando and find out when you can bring all your stuff in to talk to a pack guy. Get your straps adjusted at the same time.

This seems like overkill to me, I have somehow comfortably survived 2200 miles of backpacking without asking a "pack guy" how to put things inside a bag, or how to pull straps until they are comfortably snug lol

garlic08
08-01-2016, 14:33
If you're packing all that clothing for summer trip in the SE, it is indeed an overkill.

It should be easy enough to stow the pad on the outside. If it's inflatable, protect it from damage.

My preference is sleeping bag in the bottom of the pack, tent near the top for quick pitching at camp. Sleeping bag comes out last in case it's raining. As noted, often a compression sack will make packing more difficult, as well as stress your insulation.

First time I was able to use a small UL pack, I went stoveless. It was enough volume saved to make it work.

Tipi Walter
08-01-2016, 14:35
This seems like overkill to me, I have somehow comfortably survived 2200 miles of backpacking without asking a "pack guy" how to put things inside a bag, or how to pull straps until they are comfortably snug lol

Totally agree. And whatever you do, never call the Ranger district in the area you want to go and ask advice! They'll probably come up with a dozen reasons why it isn't a good idea and possibly try to formulate a severely amended trip schedule according to their notions of forest correctness. Phew, got that off my chest.

Gambit's right---just grab your stuff and go. If you have to carry extra stuff in grocery bags in your hands, just get out and go. Even if you have to carry a 5 gallon white plastic bucket full of crap, just do it and go. Outfitter clerks won't be able to help because they 99% of the time never used the packs they are selling---and even if they did it was probably for a one night trip, and it was on their backs not yours.

saltysack
08-01-2016, 14:46
You need better help. Call the REI store in Orlando and find out when you can bring all your stuff in to talk to a pack guy. Get your straps adjusted at the same time.

No REI in Orlando as of now.....I wouldn't count on any REI sales guys to show me how to pack.......taking waaaay to much crap if it's not fitting in a 65l unless your headed out for a Tipi month long walk!!!stuff sacks and compactor bag? Why


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bronk
08-01-2016, 15:15
This seems like overkill to me, I have somehow comfortably survived 2200 miles of backpacking without asking a "pack guy" how to put things inside a bag, or how to pull straps until they are comfortably snug lolBelieve it or not, I'd bet hundreds of people quit a through hike every year because of the pain and discomfort that directly results from pack straps that are improperly adjusted. Many people hate backpacking because they don't know how to do this right. Others needlessly carry too much weight on their shoulders and back when that weight should be distributed to their hips with proper adjustment of their straps.

Tipi Walter
08-01-2016, 15:20
To me a pack is by far the hardest piece of gear to buy. Why? Because the taste test moment of truth never comes until days deep into a trip. And this time cannot be duplicated with sand bags in a backpacking store.

Slo-go'en
08-01-2016, 15:25
I infer from previous posts that you are gearing up for an April Thur hike attempt.

A 65L pack should be plenty big for everything and 5 days of food, if you made good gear choices. If your using inexpensive (aka cheap) sleeping bag, tent and pad, those all tend to be large and heavy. Since your having trouble fitting everything in the pack, I suspect that might be the case.

A 20 degree down bag will compress significantly smaller then a 20 degree synthetic bag (and be a lot more expensive)
A UL single person tent will pack a lot smaller then an inexpensive dome tent.
A foam pad will take up a lot more space then an inflatable pad.

2 pair of underware, you just never know. Nylon briefs take up little space and have little weight.
2 short sleeve T shirts, plastic of course.
2 pair of socks.
One of each of the above is worn, so only one set is packed.
One pair of base layers, long sleeve top and long johns. Mostly for sleeping.
One long sleeve shirt ( I use a Dickie work shirt)
Fleece jacket is good, I usually just use a vest as it's slightly less weight and bulk then a full jacket.
Rain jacket. I don't bother with pants.
A couple of bandana's. One's on my head, the other hanging off the back of the pack.

Engine
08-01-2016, 15:39
Lots of Youtube videos exist on that subject. As has been stated, the amount of stuff that will fit into a 65L pack is A LOT. What you've listed should not be a problem unless you're bringing a 3 person 4 season tent and a 0* synthetic bag...

Christoph
08-01-2016, 15:53
I have my pack lined with the trash bag. I had tent loose under the bottom of trash bag.
I have my tent in the small compression type bag it came with. The whole thing straps to the outside of my pack on the bottom. I didn't want to put it inside my pack, especially under the compactor bag, mainly because if it rains (it did... a lot) then I have to pull everything out just to get to it and risk everything getting soaked. Might try something like this?

tarditi
08-01-2016, 16:02
I have the same pack and I'm surprised it can't fit everything you listed... I dig my baltoro - I actually found it too easy to bring extra stuff.
What make/model sleeping bag and sleep pad do you have?
Do share a pic - especially of your compressed sleeping bag with something for visual reference.

Try to carry the tent externally, for starters.
x2 on the comment about the fleece and wool sweater - redundant... ditch the wool IMHO.
You haven't yet accounted for food or water, but did mention the stove - remember to account for fuel.
You mentioned still needing to get boots - I hope you're not planning on putting them in the pack.

RockDoc
08-01-2016, 16:10
Need to see detailed gear list to really say anything.

skinnbones
08-01-2016, 16:13
I have the same pack and I'm surprised it can't fit everything you listed... I dig my baltoro - I actually found it too easy to bring extra stuff.
What make/model sleeping bag and sleep pad do you have?
Do share a pic - especially of your compressed sleeping bag with something for visual reference.

Try to carry the tent externally, for starters.
x2 on the comment about the fleece and wool sweater - redundant... ditch the wool IMHO.
You haven't yet accounted for food or water, but did mention the stove - remember to account for fuel.
You mentioned still needing to get boots - I hope you're not planning on putting them in the pack.Sleeping bag is Mountain Hard wear (3lbs), Pad is folding therm -z- lite, and I will ditch the wool sweater. Not packing boots. Thanks for input.

skinnbones
08-01-2016, 16:15
I infer from previous posts that you are gearing up for an April Thur hike attempt.

A 65L pack should be plenty big for everything and 5 days of food, if you made good gear choices. If your using inexpensive (aka cheap) sleeping bag, tent and pad, those all tend to be large and heavy. Since your having trouble fitting everything in the pack, I suspect that might be the case.

A 20 degree down bag will compress significantly smaller then a 20 degree synthetic bag (and be a lot more expensive)
A UL single person tent will pack a lot smaller then an inexpensive dome tent.
A foam pad will take up a lot more space then an inflatable pad.

2 pair of underware, you just never know. Nylon briefs take up little space and have little weight.
2 short sleeve T shirts, plastic of course.
2 pair of socks.
One of each of the above is worn, so only one set is packed.
One pair of base layers, long sleeve top and long johns. Mostly for sleeping.
One long sleeve shirt ( I use a Dickie work shirt)
Fleece jacket is good, I usually just use a vest as it's slightly less weight and bulk then a full jacket.
Rain jacket. I don't bother with pants.
A couple of bandana's. One's on my head, the other hanging off the back of the pack.Yes, April thru hike. May ditch rain pants like you stated.

skinnbones
08-01-2016, 16:17
First off, I carry a tremendous amount of crap and know you'll get better pack usage if you strap your tent and sleeping pad and water bottles etc to the outside of your pack. Even get a long narrow Thermarest-kind of stuff sack and stuff it with unused clothing and strap that onto the outside of your pack. Otherwise, where the heck are you going to put your food and fuel and stove?

You don't mention if you're planning a one-nighter, a weekend, 10 days or a 21 day trip.April thru hike. I will try what you said.

SkeeterPee
08-01-2016, 16:18
I have 65l osprey atmos and had same issues. First put tent outside. It will often be wet/damp anyways so you will not want it in your contractor bag with everything else. Unless you have a very light pad, they can take up a lot of room. I have one of those folding zlites for winter and also keep that on the outside. That should leave enough room for everything else.

saltysack
08-01-2016, 16:24
I assume your not trying to put the zlite ccf pad inside pack?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

skinnbones
08-01-2016, 16:32
I assume your not trying to put the zlite ccf pad inside pack?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNo, I have pad on outside. I will place tent on outside too, like everybody is saying. Thanks.

MuddyWaters
08-01-2016, 21:06
I can't seem to fit everything into my 65L pack. I don't get it. I only have my tent, rain gear, sleeping bag, pad, and some clothes. I have watched videos and read tips on this forum on how to pack, yet I'm still running out of room. Still need to purchase boots and stove. I have know idea what I'm doing wrong.

On a side note; I have 2 pair of socks, 1 pair of sock liners, camp shoes / water crossing shoes, 1 fleece jacket, 1 wool sweater, 1 pair of trekking pants, 1 wind breaker, 1 pair of long johns, 2 pair of underwear, and 2 shirts. This doesn't seem like an overkill of clothing. Any tips?

fleece is very bulky.
So might be a wool sweater

Its probably your sleeping bag, and tent mostly.

Hikingjim
08-01-2016, 21:23
What kind of tent do you have?
When my gear was pretty bulky I would stuff my sleeping bag + at least half of my tent in the bottom area. When I was doing long trips with a lot of stuff I would put the tent fly in the tent bag on the outside along with the mat. I usually don't even bring the tent bag anymore. It's easier to stuff things in individually

A cheap lightweight down puffy jacket would probably go better for space purposes than a bulky sweater. Costco sometimes has decent ones for $40 or something

That should work for now, but there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to fit everything in there for your thru hike, with just the mat on the outside. So it's good you're asking now!

Venchka
08-01-2016, 21:45
To me a pack is by far the hardest piece of gear to buy. Why? Because the taste test moment of truth never comes until days deep into a trip. And this time cannot be duplicated with sand bags in a backpacking store.

Amen, Brother! Usually after the return period has expired.
Wayne


Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

-Rush-
08-02-2016, 00:53
You pack your fears, so perhaps you should identify what scares you and get hard facts about how useful the stuff you're carrying is. 65L is plenty of space for pack full of Winter gear on the AT. In fact, I think it's overkill if you're carrying the right gear.

MtDoraDave
08-02-2016, 07:02
My 60 liter Jansport Katadin isn't large enough for my cold weather, 1 week, hikes.

I'm from FL, so I don't handle the cold as well as many I've met on the trail. For clothing, I carry (or wear) 1 thin base layer, 2 sets of micro fleece, hiking pants, hiking shirt, rain pants, rain jacket, 3 pairs wool socks. ...and yes, when it dips into the 'teens I am wearing all of it around camp. Oh yeah, also a pair of gloves that usually clip to the outside of the pack when not being worn. ...and camp shoes.

After being dangerously cold one night in November a couple years ago (a night in the 'teens) I decided to buy a 0 degree down bag. Since I didn't have $800 for a sleeping bag, I went with a Marmot Never Summer - which is 650 fill, weighs 4 lbs and is bulkier than the more expensive, higher fill rating bags... but it keeps me warm when the temps drop in the teens wearing nothing but my thin base layer.

My tent is a tarptent squall 2, my sleeping pad is a Thermarest Prolite Plus, my stove and fuel fit inside a 1.2 L titanium pot - it all goes inside the pack. Then there is a week's worth of food.

Putting the tent in an outside pocket or strapping it to the back would save a lot of space, but didn't work with my pack.

Having a quilt instead of a bag would save space. Or going with a more expensive, higher fill bag would also save space.

MtDoraDave
08-02-2016, 07:04
My 60 liter Jansport Katadin isn't large enough for my cold weather, 1 week, hikes.

I'm from FL, so I don't handle the cold as well as many I've met on the trail. For clothing, I carry (or wear) 1 thin base layer, 2 sets of micro fleece, hiking pants, hiking shirt, rain pants, rain jacket, 3 pairs wool socks. ...and yes, when it dips into the 'teens I am wearing all of it around camp. Oh yeah, also a pair of gloves that usually clip to the outside of the pack when not being worn. ...and camp shoes.

After being dangerously cold one night in November a couple years ago (a night in the 'teens) I decided to buy a 0 degree down bag. Since I didn't have $800 for a sleeping bag, I went with a Marmot Never Summer - which is 650 fill, weighs 4 lbs and is bulkier than the more expensive, higher fill rating bags... but it keeps me warm when the temps drop in the teens wearing nothing but my thin base layer.

My tent is a tarptent squall 2, my sleeping pad is a Thermarest Prolite Plus, my stove and fuel fit inside a 1.2 L titanium pot - it all goes inside the pack. Then there is a week's worth of food.

Putting the tent in an outside pocket or strapping it to the back would save a lot of space, but didn't work with my pack.

Having a quilt instead of a bag would save space. Or going with a more expensive, higher fill bag would also save space.

So my "winter" pack is 85 liters... I bought it from a neighbor for $40; an older REI pack.

Slo-go'en
08-02-2016, 09:12
You pack your fears, so perhaps you should identify what scares you and get hard facts about how useful the stuff you're carrying is. 65L is plenty of space for pack full of Winter gear on the AT. In fact, I think it's overkill if you're carrying the right gear.

The OP is starting in April and while it can get chilly in early April, it isn't exactly winter.
Here's picture of all the gear I'll be taking to Colorado in September (if all goes well).
35652
This all fits into the 65L pack with room to spare for a weeks worth of food.

From top to bottom, left to right we have stuff sack for bag, the bag with CoolMax liner on top of a Neoair pad.
Assortment of clothes, Fleece pull over, tent (SMD Trekker), a light fleece lined nylon vest, pack cover, bug net hat, Crusher hat, fleece hat, neck gaiter, scarf, gloves, Gortex jacket, Sawyer Squeeze filter and bag, gallon water bag, big cell phone and battery pack, headlamp, pack towel, tent stakes, cooking pot, fuel cylinder, burner, waterproof plastic box with odds and ends in it. Tyvak ground sheet and a piece of close cell foam for sitting on and putting under the Neoair for extra insulation under my hips. The whole deal weights about 16 pounds.

SGTJones
08-02-2016, 10:24
Hey OP I'm with you. Somehow my 65L osprey weighs 55lbs coming out of every town. After hot springs I just took it on as a challenge to go halfway with a 55lb pack. For the life of me I don't know why it's THAT damn heavy but at Harper's I'm going to do some serious pairing down of the gear. With that said I haven't had any problems fitting it all... so, not sure. Don't be afraid to really cram stuff in.

alnitak
08-02-2016, 10:30
All your stuff should fit easily in the 65L Baltoro, ...without resorting to packing tent, etc. externally (and potentially exposing it to damage from branches, etc.). Just as a thought...do you have all the compression straps relaxed? Maybe there is more room in your pack than you think...

saltysack
08-02-2016, 10:40
The OP is starting in April and while it can get chilly in early April, it isn't exactly winter.
Here's picture of all the gear I'll be taking to Colorado in September (if all goes well).
35652
This all fits into the 65L pack with room to spare for a weeks worth of food.

From top to bottom, left to right we have stuff sack for bag, the bag with CoolMax liner on top of a Neoair pad.
Assortment of clothes, Fleece pull over, tent (SMD Trekker), a light fleece lined nylon vest, pack cover, bug net hat, Crusher hat, fleece hat, neck gaiter, scarf, gloves, Gortex jacket, Sawyer Squeeze filter and bag, gallon water bag, big cell phone and battery pack, headlamp, pack towel, tent stakes, cooking pot, fuel cylinder, burner, waterproof plastic box with odds and ends in it. Tyvak ground sheet and a piece of close cell foam for sitting on and putting under the Neoair for extra insulation under my hips. The whole deal weights about 16 pounds.

Where you going in Co and when?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sarcasm the elf
08-02-2016, 11:02
You pack your fears, so perhaps you should identify what scares you and get hard facts about how useful the stuff you're carrying is. 65L is plenty of space for pack full of Winter gear on the AT. In fact, I think it's overkill if you're carrying the right gear.

You may wish to qualify that statement, it might be true in many parts of the South and the mid Atlantic, but the northern part of the trail is a different story. Coldest night I've spent on the A.T. So far in New England was -17 degrees (f). Not to mention the required snowshoes, axe and crampons, true four season tent, dead geese etc.

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 11:03
That's a cool pic, Slo-go'en, I just wish I had the discipline to lay out all my crap in that style like the old timers used to do back in the 1960s. See---

http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/0/e/6/2543846/Allen-and-Gregory-1960.jpg
This pic appears in the book Hiking the Appalachian Trail and the pic is from Owen F. Allen showing his 1960 kit.

The best I can do is this---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2009/Bald-River-with-Two-Speed-and/i-TThGZqk/0/L/TRIP%2095%20010-L.jpg

Sarcasm the elf
08-02-2016, 11:05
That's a cool pic, Slo-go'en, I just wish I had the discipline to lay out all my crap in that style like the old timers used to do back in the 1960s. See---

http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/0/e/6/2543846/Allen-and-Gregory-1960.jpg
This pic appears in the book Hiking the Appalachian Trail and the pic is from Owen F. Allen showing his 1960 kit.

The best I can do is this---

https://photos.smugmug.com/Backpacking2009/Bald-River-with-Two-Speed-and/i-TThGZqk/0/L/TRIP%2095%20010-L.jpg

You could save a few grams if you cut off part of the handle of that spoon. ;)

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 11:50
You could save a few grams if you cut off part of the handle of that spoon. ;)

It'll break off on its own---that's about my 6th lexan spoon and now replaced with a sea to summit long handle alum spoon.

egilbe
08-02-2016, 13:08
It'll break off on its own---that's about my 6th lexan spoon and now replaced with a sea to summit long handle alum spoon.

You need to eat slower. Its a spoon, not a shovel :p

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 13:29
You need to eat slower. Its a spoon, not a shovel :p

With half my teeth gone I eat pretty dang slow as it is.:-?

Old Grouse
08-02-2016, 14:15
These photos are fascinating. I haven't seen that many Dopp Kits since my neighbor's kids went off to prep school!

Venchka
08-02-2016, 14:58
Where you going in Co and when?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would like to know also.
I'm going to Colorado in September and I'm not taking that much stuff.
One of us may be miserable.
One more thing. All packs labeled 65 liters are not created equal. [emoji1][emoji106][emoji41]
Wayne


Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

jeffmeh
08-02-2016, 15:46
You may wish to qualify that statement, it might be true in many parts of the South and the mid Atlantic, but the northern part of the trail is a different story. Coldest night I've spent on the A.T. So far in New England was -17 degrees (f). Not to mention the required snowshoes, axe and crampons, true four season tent, dead geese etc.

Beat me to it. I got a -40 deg F one in in the Whites in the early '80s (beats chest). Winter is relative. :)

saltysack
08-02-2016, 16:44
I would like to know also.
I'm going to Colorado in September and I'm not taking that much stuff.
One of us may be miserable.
One more thing. All packs labeled 65 liters are not created equal. [emoji1][emoji106][emoji41]
Wayne


Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

Looks like I'm locked in for sept 18-29....pray for good weather. Lil white stuff wouldn't bother me as long as I can find the trail! Maybe catch the elk bugling...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Greenlight
08-02-2016, 16:52
Fill this out, and I'll compile your answers to feed them back to the group for recommendations. My first assumption is that you're carrying a synthetic sleeping bag that, even compressed, fills half of your pack. But we'll find out. :P

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QNiutNKPi8yMiAcZotohK8UNb7ggVzDorq8yaCzuGiU/edit

Slo-go'en
08-02-2016, 18:26
I would like to know also.
I'm going to Colorado in September and I'm not taking that much stuff.
One of us may be miserable.
One more thing. All packs labeled 65 liters are not created equal. [emoji1][emoji106][emoji41]
Wayne

Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

I hope to be starting the CT about Sept 1st. I need to wait to see how I heal up after having two teeth extracted today before committing :(

There are a few things in my picture I wouldn't normally carry, like the scarf and vest. The vest is good for hiking when you need a little more then just a shirt, but not so cold as to need to really bundle up. I'm not sure how useful the scarf will be, but it's pretty light and doesn't take up much space. We'll see. My bag will be marginal if it gets into the 30's hence the coolmax liner and a fairly large chunk of closed cell foam to put under the Neoair.

Tipi Walter
08-02-2016, 18:36
I hope to be starting the CT about Sept 1st. I need to wait to see how I heal up after having two teeth extracted today before committing :(



This reminds me of having two right lower molars pulled 4 days before a 16 day backpacking trip into the TN mountains. From my trail journal of the crappy event---

TOOTH HOLE
Almost a week after my molar (past root canal) extractions they are still sore and full of white and yellow pus. I know because I stuck my camera inside and took a flash pic. The cheek side of the gum is inflamed and sore and the dang thing still hurts so I brought out the big guns---a tiny cotton ball soaked in eugenol and placed in the socket for a few minutes, part of a Red Cross Tooth Aid kit. I hope the swelling goes down and the pain stops in the next couple days as I can't stand looking at the close up pic I took as it depresses me so I won't! If my face swells or my lymphs grow in size or the pain gets worse I may have to sit put for a couple days and fast until the blasted thing knits up. The eugenol seems to help a bit.


I don't have any antibiotics btw. Tempit fug it, this too shall pass and time flies. A pulled tooth is usually the end of pain, not the beginning of a full week of crap. I do not have "dry socket" as I hear it is very painful and I'm a pain wimp so the discomfort I feel is exaggerated in my brain when really it is nothing. I do have some pain meds if needed but it'd have to get hellish before they are pulled out. It didn't start hurting today until I washed my face in the cold water of the creek. Maybe I rubbed my cheek the wrong way. Enough whining. Tomorrow I hope to leave on the crocs and pull 5 more creek crossings . . .

What's crappy is they stayed swollen and inflamed up to the very last day of the trip.

jefals
08-02-2016, 20:59
alright, this might have been said - but do you have 2 pairs of shoes/boots inside your pack? that might be the problem.

Venchka
08-02-2016, 23:38
Looks like I'm locked in for sept 18-29....pray for good weather. Lil white stuff wouldn't bother me as long as I can find the trail! Maybe catch the elk bugling...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hope to be starting the CT about Sept 1st. I need to wait to see how I heal up after having two teeth extracted today before committing :(

There are a few things in my picture I wouldn't normally carry, like the scarf and vest. The vest is good for hiking when you need a little more then just a shirt, but not so cold as to need to really bundle up. I'm not sure how useful the scarf will be, but it's pretty light and doesn't take up much space. We'll see. My bag will be marginal if it gets into the 30's hence the coolmax liner and a fairly large chunk of closed cell foam to put under the Neoair.

Looks like I will be in between you all. Hitting New Mexico about September 2-3-4 and working my north and up in altitude to get used to Colorado. Heading into the Weminuche north of Pagosa Springs with 2 friends from September 10-16.
I'm taking my 20 degree WM Alpinlite purchased specifically for trips along the Divide this time of year. Could be overkill. Or not enough. We'll see.

Wayne

Another Kevin
08-03-2016, 14:11
You may wish to qualify that statement, it might be true in many parts of the South and the mid Atlantic, but the northern part of the trail is a different story. Coldest night I've spent on the A.T. So far in New England was -17 degrees (f). Not to mention the required snowshoes, axe and crampons, true four season tent, dead geese etc.

Elf knows whereof he speaks. Although I think the coldest trip we've been on together only got down to the minus single digits.

Unless you have the bucks to spend on gear like Western Mountaineering, you are going to need a bulky pack in the wintertime. I can't do a long distance hike in deep winter with my 65 litre pack. (I'm really not geared up for deep winter trekking, anyway - I switch to peak-bagging at that time of year. Get in and get out before the weather goes sour.)

The one item on Elf's list that might be optional sometimes is the four-season tent. You'll surely be more comfortable with it, but that is one area where you can trade skill for gear, and a lot of winter mountaineers make do with three-season tents. Tipi Walter will nail me to the wall for saying that.

You need at least limited overnight gear on even a day trip Up North. You might not need enough for everyone in the party, but at least enough for an injured hiker and companion to spend the night, so that a sprained ankle won't mean freezing to death.

Tipi Walter
08-03-2016, 14:17
The one item on Elf's list that might be optional sometimes is the four-season tent. You'll surely be more comfortable with it, but that is one area where you can trade skill for gear, and a lot of winter mountaineers make do with three-season tents. Tipi Walter will nail me to the wall for saying that.


No I won't! But I'm putting you on my personal Watch List and will it take your comment under advisement until I reach a final opinion.:-?:)

Another Kevin
08-03-2016, 14:18
The OP is starting in April and while it can get chilly in early April, it isn't exactly winter.

Wait a minute, you're up in Randolph. Didn't I hear that Randolph's four seasons are Winter, June, July and August?

-Rush-
08-03-2016, 15:54
You may wish to qualify that statement, it might be true in many parts of the South and the mid Atlantic, but the northern part of the trail is a different story. Coldest night I've spent on the A.T. So far in New England was -17 degrees (f). Not to mention the required snowshoes, axe and crampons, true four season tent, dead geese etc.

My statement assumes a NOBO hike starting in April.


The OP is starting in April and while it can get chilly in early April, it isn't exactly winter.
Here's picture of all the gear I'll be taking to Colorado in September (if all goes well).

Agreed, it isn't quite winter, but not taking winter gear (20 degree bag, puffy, etc.) on a NOBO hike starting in April is a bad idea IMO.

-Rush-
08-03-2016, 16:04
That's a cool pic, Slo-go'en, I just wish I had the discipline to lay out all my crap in that style like the old timers used to do back in the 1960s. See---

http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/0/e/6/2543846/Allen-and-Gregory-1960.jpg
This pic appears in the book Hiking the Appalachian Trail and the pic is from Owen F. Allen showing his 1960 kit.



I've got these books. When I first read them it was enlightening to see that a lot of ideas I thought were recent (90s era) actually came about YEARS ago. True pioneers!

Tipi Walter
08-03-2016, 16:16
I've got these books. When I first read them it was enlightening to see that a lot of ideas I thought were recent (90s era) actually came about YEARS ago. True pioneers!

And their gear was very light, too. The earliest Kelty external packs were very light.


http://www.oregonphotos.com/Kelty-1.html

http://www.oregonphotos.com/Kelty-2.html (http://www.oregonphotos.com/Kelty-1.html)

SkeeterPee
08-03-2016, 16:47
My son is using an old Kelty like your kelty-w picture. Except his does not have that green pouch on the back. otherwise looks the same.

SkeeterPee
08-03-2016, 16:48
My son is using an old Kelty like your kelty-w picture. Except his does not have that green pouch on the back. otherwise looks the same.
I mean Kelty-2 picture.

Another Kevin
08-03-2016, 16:51
My statement assumes a NOBO hike starting in April.



Agreed, it isn't quite winter, but not taking winter gear (20 degree bag, puffy, etc.) on a NOBO hike starting in April is a bad idea IMO.

Slo lives Up North. For him, what you describe is three-season gear. Winter gear is a MINUS 20 degree bag, a heavy puffy, two sleeping pads, a four season tent, snowshoes, crampons, ice axe, ....

-Rush-
08-03-2016, 18:52
Slo lives Up North. For him, what you describe is three-season gear. Winter gear is a MINUS 20 degree bag, a heavy puffy, two sleeping pads, a four season tent, snowshoes, crampons, ice axe, ....

I get it. As long as we agree that anyone showing up at Neel Gap in April with an ice axe, crampons, and a four season tent is going to be sending it all home. Plus, we don't care how they do it up North and the OP is from Florida. :D

-Rush-
08-03-2016, 18:58
And their gear was very light, too. The earliest Kelty external packs were very light.


http://www.oregonphotos.com/Kelty-1.html

(http://www.oregonphotos.com/Kelty-1.html)http://www.oregonphotos.com/Kelty-2.html


Cool info. Not sure of the brand, but my first pack looked just like this and it was with me when I walked on the AT for the first time. My dad picked it up at a garage sale.

Venchka
08-03-2016, 19:25
Camp Trails built an external frame in magnesium. Imagine pairing that with a pack bag made out of X-Pac or Cuben hybrid fabric.
Wayne


Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

Slo-go'en
08-03-2016, 20:11
Camp Trails built an external frame in magnesium. Imagine pairing that with a pack bag made out of X-Pac or Cuben hybrid fabric.

I must not have the magnesium version since my old Camp Trails pack weighs seven pounds! I used to have to first lift it up onto a rock or picnic table to get it onto my back :)

skinnbones
08-03-2016, 20:18
I get it. As long as we agree that anyone showing up at Neel Gap in April with an ice axe, crampons, and a four season tent is going to be sending it all home. Plus, we don't care how they do it up North and the OP is from Florida. :DIn all fairness, here in Florida, we have days that dip into the low 80's. Burrrrr.

Another Kevin
08-04-2016, 16:59
I get it. As long as we agree that anyone showing up at Neel Gap in April with an ice axe, crampons, and a four season tent is going to be sending it all home. Plus, we don't care how they do it up North and the OP is from Florida. :D

Yup. I don't think I'd bring my deep-winter gear to Georgia in any season. I'd bring microspikes in March, but maybe not bother with them in April.

On the other hand, in actual winter, you're darn tootin' that I'd bring actual winter gear anywhere from Massachusetts north, and I'd only leave the spikes at home from mid-May to mid-October. I've been on the AT in Massachusetts on snowshoes.

DuneElliot
08-05-2016, 10:06
I can't seem to fit everything into my 65L pack. I don't get it. I only have my tent, rain gear, sleeping bag, pad, and some clothes. I have watched videos and read tips on this forum on how to pack, yet I'm still running out of room. Still need to purchase boots and stove. I have know idea what I'm doing wrong.

On a side note; I have 2 pair of socks, 1 pair of sock liners, camp shoes / water crossing shoes, 1 fleece jacket, 1 wool sweater, 1 pair of trekking pants, 1 wind breaker, 1 pair of long johns, 2 pair of underwear, and 2 shirts. This doesn't seem like an overkill of clothing. Any tips?

Still waiting on photos of the gear and/or a gear list. Initially I thought I wasn't going to fit all my gear into a ZPacks Arc Haul, but I actually managed to fit (and have room) for a 5 day trip in the 62L pack.

Don't take extra clothes except for your base layer/sleep wear, extra pair of socks and underwear. I have a beanie, buff and pair of gloves too that get stuffed into open spaces in a trash compactor bag to fill the gaps and I have a down puffy jack that gets stuffed in too. Any other clothes should only be the ones you are wearing.

I use a dry sack for my sleeping bag and compress it some, but not like being in a compression sack. I pack my inflatable pad on the bottom, followed by a travel pillow from Walmart. Next goes my sleeping bag and base layer, other clothes, toiletries and puffy. Then I close the trash bag. Next is my food bag and my stove/pot/fuel in a cozy. On top of that is my tent. Outside are my water bottles, filter, scoop cup and squeeze bag, maps, compass, knife, camera, phone, bear spray, bug spray (if necessary), sit-pad/dog bed, tent stakes and food for the day. I have taken water/camp shoes before but ended up finding it easier to cross bare-foot instead in most places (wouldn't do this in high-traffic areas). I generally stuff rain gear (if I take it) in some outside pocket or under compression straps/cord. Right now I only carry an emergency poncho because rain is unlikely. I'd also drop the windbreaker since you already have rain gear...do you really need both?

Engine
08-05-2016, 13:00
In all fairness, here in Florida, we have days that dip into the low 80's. Burrrrr.

Not sure about your neck of the woods, but I'm originally from northern Michigan and I've been MUCH colder (comfort-wise) here in central Florida than I ever got up there. Humidity sucks both in the summer and the winter.

skinnbones
08-05-2016, 18:23
Still waiting on photos of the gear and/or a gear list. Initially I thought I wasn't going to fit all my gear into a ZPacks Arc Haul, but I actually managed to fit (and have room) for a 5 day trip in the 62L pack.

Don't take extra clothes except for your base layer/sleep wear, extra pair of socks and underwear. I have a beanie, buff and pair of gloves too that get stuffed into open spaces in a trash compactor bag to fill the gaps and I have a down puffy jack that gets stuffed in too. Any other clothes should only be the ones you are wearing.

I use a dry sack for my sleeping bag and compress it some, but not like being in a compression sack. I pack my inflatable pad on the bottom, followed by a travel pillow from Walmart. Next goes my sleeping bag and base layer, other clothes, toiletries and puffy. Then I close the trash bag. Next is my food bag and my stove/pot/fuel in a cozy. On top of that is my tent. Outside are my water bottles, filter, scoop cup and squeeze bag, maps, compass, knife, camera, phone, bear spray, bug spray (if necessary), sit-pad/dog bed, tent stakes and food for the day. I have taken water/camp shoes before but ended up finding it easier to cross bare-foot instead in most places (wouldn't do this in high-traffic areas). I generally stuff rain gear (if I take it) in some outside pocket or under compression straps/cord. Right now I only carry an emergency poncho because rain is unlikely. I'd also drop the windbreaker since you already have rain gear...do you really need both?Many thanks. Read 3 times to let soak in.

skinnbones
08-05-2016, 18:26
Not sure about your neck of the woods, but I'm originally from northern Michigan and I've been MUCH colder (comfort-wise) here in central Florida than I ever got up there. Humidity sucks both in the summer and the winter.I'm originally from Pennsylvania. Been here almost 6 years and still hate the summers. Gotta loves those Florida winters though. You're from Michigan; ever set a foot on the NCT?

saltysack
08-05-2016, 18:37
The more you hike the less you will take......cram it all in for the first trip then toss what you didn't use for next trip and so on...I started with a 60l and now down to a 40l with room to spare even with food for 5-6 days....as most have said ditch any extra cloths except for extra pair of hiking socks and sleep wear i.e. Base layer. Only way to see what works for you is to get out there...a good test hike would be to hike the 77 mile foothills trail in the fall...great trail & not terribly far from Fl.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DuneElliot
08-05-2016, 19:12
Many thanks. Read 3 times to let soak in.

Hope it helped. I'm heading out on Monday for my longest trip yet...after several shorter trips I have my stuff down to the bare minimum for weight and comfort and safety

GlennBur
08-06-2016, 13:15
What I've found when my pack is fighting me and won't load like I want is usually I've forgotten to loosen one or more compression straps. I've watched other make the same mistake so, make sure the side compression straps are a loose as possible.

AlyontheAT2016
08-06-2016, 18:14
I'm currently thru hiking and I pack my clothing loose. Stuff sacks are for food and sleeping bag. I line my pack with a plastic liner from Gossamer Gear so everything is kept dry in a surprise shower (if I can't put on pack cover fast enough). Also, 65L is a rather large pack for a thru hike. I'm working with a 50L (size small so actually more like 47, and I don't use the brain) and it fits just about everything. When I have more than 5 days of food (very rarely), I put my tent on top and cinch the lid down over it.


sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

greentick
08-06-2016, 19:32
In all fairness, here in Florida, we have days that dip into the low 80's. Burrrrr.

http://25dkd82t2owl3yew6h49ewsh.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/struggleisreal.jpg

DuneElliot
08-06-2016, 20:39
So much depends on the gear you have...synthetic or down bag and what it's rated to, bulky or light-weight tent with poles or without. Without that information we are helping blindly.

Engine
08-07-2016, 05:29
I'm originally from Pennsylvania. Been here almost 6 years and still hate the summers. Gotta loves those Florida winters though. You're from Michigan; ever set a foot on the NCT?

I have done a couple short sections around Manistee and Traverse City a long while back. I miss that part of the county, especially in the late summer and fall
35742 (Not my photo, purloined from the internet...Manistee River)

skinnbones
08-07-2016, 11:40
I can't seem to fit everything into my 65L pack. I don't get it. I only have my tent, rain gear, sleeping bag, pad, and some clothes. I have watched videos and read tips on this forum on how to pack, yet I'm still running out of room. Still need to purchase boots and stove. I have know idea what I'm doing wrong.

On a side note; I have 2 pair of socks, 1 pair of sock liners, camp shoes / water crossing shoes, 1 fleece jacket, 1 wool sweater, 1 pair of trekking pants, 1 wind breaker, 1 pair of long johns, 2 pair of underwear, and 2 shirts. This doesn't seem like an overkill of clothing. Any tips?Working it and making a lot of progress. Thanks again everybody. Note> It's difficult to separate the "wants" from the "needs".

Venchka
08-07-2016, 12:15
Working it and making a lot of progress. Thanks again everybody. Note> It's difficult to separate the "wants" from the "needs".

From The Gospel According to Colin Fletcher - Clothing. Paraphrasing because I'm too lazy to go get the book.
Don't carry more clothes than you can wear at one time. Excluding socks. he advocated 3 pairs in red.
There is a corollary between clothes and sleeping bag.
Wayne


Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."

Shagtast1c
08-09-2016, 21:12
I can't seem to fit everything into my 65L pack. I don't get it. I only have my tent, rain gear, sleeping bag, pad, and some clothes. I have watched videos and read tips on this forum on how to pack, yet I'm still running out of room. Still need to purchase boots and stove. I have know idea what I'm doing wrong.

On a side note; I have 2 pair of socks, 1 pair of sock liners, camp shoes / water crossing shoes, 1 fleece jacket, 1 wool sweater, 1 pair of trekking pants, 1 wind breaker, 1 pair of long johns, 2 pair of underwear, and 2 shirts. This doesn't seem like an overkill of clothing. Any tips?

I've been backpacking most of my life but I started as a dirtbagger pretty young. I've replaced and refined as time went on so i'm versed in making it fit and making it work.

Presently, everything I need for 7+ days and 3+ seasons in the southeast takes up less than 50L including food. I do a lot of overgrown wilderness and I get secondary contact poison ivy regularly, so I even carry extra clothing so laundry on the trail is possible. With that said, a trip with situational or even luxury gear means both my clothing and sleeping bag fit into the sleeping bag compartment with room to spare in my larger 65L Osprey Atmos. Everything I carry fits into that pack (tent included when I need one) or even one smaller with the exception of the sleep pad.

If you choose clothing and sleeping gear as layered systems, you can get away with a lot more with less weight, bulk, and valuable pack space. For me its the same as any gear choice: multi function and light. Remember the 5 means of heat transfer: conduction, convection, evaporation, radiation, and respiration. When I incorporate my shelter, sleeping, and clothing systems into something interdependent, my weight and volume fluctuate much less and often to my benefit than when I compartmentalize items into individual conditions. I'm always slightly adding or taking away convection, conduction, and radiation to stay cool or warm. I only use wool for socks and a cap. The same goes for the sleeping bag and pad. For example, I have a particular bag rated 55 degrees and super cheap and light, so I sleep in a layer or two and use a mylar blanket around the outside, reflecting my radiation and sealing convection. Usually I use air insulation from the ground, sometimes CCF, sometimes both. With a light shelter and pad, I'm comfortable at or below freezing essentially adding 20+ degrees to the bag with what I already have + 2-3 ounces. If I'm using my stronger (and sometimes unfortunately warmer) shelter during the risks of tornado season, it eliminates more convection loss and I need less insulation. I've gone down to 35-40 degrees with nothing more than my clothes and a mylar blanket and been perfectly comfortable. for the extra 1 lb of a shelter, I shed the 1.5 lb sleeping bag. Winter weather takes a more aggressive approach and some heavier gear, but the basic ideas don't change. In an area of the country where it can sometimes feel like summer at 8am, autumn by noon, and freeze that night I've had to adjust a lot.

So Blah. This is just my style, and it works for me. After a long time, I've also gotten more comfortable with less and continue to do so. Its about what works for you. I sleep warm and stay warm. Hope you do the same! As for the packing part, I found longer, cylindrical shapes work well to pack around a taller thin tent stuff sack. If I load that vertically, I can usually slide the other cylinder-packed things (rolled up zipper bags and stuff sacks, cook pot / fuel, etc) down each side and fluff out the front with flatter stuff. That way I can also slide out my tent through everything first anyway.