View Full Version : thoughts on boot insoles and ems experience
Hi
So today I went to my local Eastern Mountain Sports and checked out some boot insoles. I currently have super feet (35$) but am only so so happy with them..I don't think the shock absorption is all it could be. Anyway, I explained to the salesmen that my problem in the past regarding foot pain has mostly been pain in the balls of my feet.
He suggested a pair of Ed Visiteurs custom foot beds. Not much written on the package other than that Ed Visiteur swears by them when he is climbing the world's 8000 meter peaks!! These foot beds you put into an oven, set at 200 degrees F for two minutes. Take em out and put em in your boots. You stand in your shoes with the foot beds in them for two minutes and then the in soles are supposedly perfectly molded to your feet.
I asked the salesmean how the insoldes would hold up with very wet feet as my current super feet have had the two parts come unglued from very wet conditions. He relied..well just how wet do you expect your feet to get? perhaps what you need is new boots.
Well I was willing to give these new insoles a try but when I got to the counter I discovered the price (not written on the package) was 42 dollars.
That was too much to swallow so I gavem them back. It has nothing to do with being able to afford or not..I just have a hard time justifying so much money for boot insoles given that the package and the salesman have so little to say about them!
Is it really possible the EMS salesman was a clueless as I think he was?
But the main part of my question is.. what are the best insoles to have to best protect my feet from all the pounding..I am concerned especially about possible pain in balls of feet (ie up front and underneath). The boots I am using are EMS Summit Goretex II about a year old, broken in and stil in descent condition.
Has anyone ever tried these 42 dollar Ed Visiteur custom Foot beds? are they worth it? if not What are the best insoles to have?
Do the outfitters a long the AT stock Boot insoles?
I am looking for boot insoles that will keep my feet happy as I trudge over hill and dale along the AT this spring !
DavidNH
generoll
01-08-2006, 15:22
for whatever it's worth, i got a set of the black superfeet at trail days this past year. my feet had basically terminated my section hike last spring and even in May i was still hobbling around. the originator was there and they had a booth set up to do the custom fitting and for all the hype and mumbo jumbo, i have to say that those insoles have made a huge difference in how my feet feel when i'm backpacking. for $90 a pair they ought to feel better and they did.
your mileage may vary.
for whatever it's worth, i got a set of the black superfeet at trail days this past year. my feet had basically terminated my section hike last spring and even in May i was still hobbling around. the originator was there and they had a booth set up to do the custom fitting and for all the hype and mumbo jumbo, i have to say that those insoles have made a huge difference in how my feet feel when i'm backpacking. for $90 a pair they ought to feel better and they did.
your mileage may vary.
FYI, I think Gene is talking about the custom fitting that is done at all Mast General Stores (http://www.mastgeneralstore.com/). They use the Phil Oren system (http://www.fitsystembyphiloren.com/).
Alligator
01-08-2006, 15:49
FYI, I think Gene is talking about the custom fitting that is done at all Mast General Stores (http://www.mastgeneralstore.com/). They use the Phil Oren system (http://www.fitsystembyphiloren.com/).
They had a booth set up to do fittings using that system at Trail Days last year.
$42 is about $12 higher than non-custom Superfeet. I paid $30 for mine. As mentioned, the custom Superfeet are usually $90. It might be a reasonable risk to use the $42 custom ones. I haven't used them though.
If you are getting wet feet, you may need new boots? I would get the inserts and new boots at the same time so the whole deal fits as best it can. What the salesperson should have been doing is evaluating your foot and deciding whether you needed custom footbeds or not. My salesperson measured my feet at several points, wrote the information down on a card for future use, they suggested that the custom beds were probably not necessary. So we fit my feet with new boots and Superfeet (greens). I was there for new boots.
I was considering going the route of custom inserts, but I have since switched to trail runners. I had blister problems though, while yours is foot pain that may be support related.
MoBeach42
01-08-2006, 16:26
First Note: Every person't foot is different. For some people Superfeet actually make things worse. One other problem with Superfeet, and this may have something to do with the pain the balls of your feet, is that there is no secondary arch across the ball of your feet - it's flat on the Superfeet. Your foot is not flat up there.
To that end, I love the pair of cork footbeds that I got at Bob's Wilderness House in Boston. :clap The guy there who fitted me seemed to know what he was doing, and he put in a little added arch support and an slight heel lift. When my boots gave out the corks kept on keepin' on, and I transfer them to every pair of shoe that I put on. I currently use them in Solomon trail runners. They were $40 or so, but worth every penny. I hardly had an ounce of foot pain on my entire thru.
Final word - I would say more custom is better than no custom, provided you feel like the person selling them to you is competent. Good luck!
LostInSpace
01-08-2006, 16:26
I occassionally suffer from plantar fasciitis (AKA heel spur) in my left foot, so I need good insoles to eliminate the problem. I like Superfeet for the support, but agree that they do not have the cushioning that would be desirable.
I just got a set of ShockDoctor Arch Adjust insoles that have cushioning in them in addition to the firm support. I put them in my boots but have not had a chance to put many miles on them. They seem like a good choice. They are about the same price as the SuperFeet green ... perhaps a couple of bucks more.
http://www.shockdoc.com/insoles/archAdjust.html
generoll
01-08-2006, 17:08
correct Jeff, they are the Phil Oren Superfeet. the folks at the booth spent about an hour fitting me and in addition to the inserts they also put in an additional pad beneath the insert ( a 5 iron they call it ) and 'tongue depressors' as well. i think having someone knowledgeable doing the fitting is probably more important then which brand of insole you use.
First, as others have posted, superfeet are great for many people, but certainly not for everyone.
Second, many EMS stores now have a "foot guru." I would seek his/her advice before making a decision on inserts. If the Concord store does not have a foot guru, then go to another store that does have one.
Since you already have your boots, another alternative is to hike the first 30 miles into Neels Gap and spend some time with Winton at Mountain Crossings. I'm sure he can fix you up with whatever you need.
I have alot of foot pain. My feet are kind of trashed from wearing ill fitting combat boots at work (police). I am now using Sole custom foot beds. I find them to be alot more comfortable than superfeet. you can get them from some REI locations but i get them off the web at www.yoursole.com (http://www.yoursole.com). i am putting them in most of my shoes now and it makes a big difference.
I tried yoursole, superfeet, spencos and dr scholls... non of them worked for me. Non of them offered enough cushion and comfort. I bought shockblockers medical for my hiking boots a year ago. The thing about these insoles is that they are flat and at the same time they mold to the natural shape of the foot. They are made of a material that is very comformative and shock absorbing that you don't feel any pressure points on your feet. They are extremely comfortable. I suffered a lot of pain in my arch, and the ball of my foot, especially when I wore superfeet and your soles. I think this is probably because every foot is different and you cannot expect that a pre-shape insole will fit and provide comfort to every foot.
My recommendation: shockblockers insoles. (www.shockblockers.com) You can order online.
Good luck!
I've tried all the expensive stuff....I had zero luck. I finally found that by using 7mm thick standard beds my feet do just fine. I purchased 6 pair several years ago for around 5 bucks each.
sliderule
01-14-2006, 12:15
I used Superfeet insoles for years, but eventually decided that they were causing as many problems as they solved. I switched to Shock Doctor insoles (Ultra2) and like them much better. They totally eliminated heel pain that had plagued me for quite some time.
Superfeet bothered my legs and feet a great deal before I junked them. They seem mostly support and not so much shock absorption. From my experience it seems like if you already have good arches Superfeet would rob them of their normal shock-absorbing action by blocking proper movement. They seem to replace normal arch mechanisms with a propped-up, imobile arch. Wouldn't prolonged use pretty much remove arch strenth, rather like prolonged wearing of a cast or brace weakens leg muscles?
It seems like if you don't have bad arches before using them you will afterwards? No wonder the literature goes on about wearing them all the time. I find anything with too much arch support bothers my feet. Try a running a marathon like that, it becomes excruciating!
On the other hand, if your feet need that support I could see how Superfeet could make a big difference. But I can't help thinking it is like prescribing eyeglasses for everyone even those with good vision.
Blissful
01-14-2006, 13:54
Insoles will be the death of me. After a severe ankle injury two years ago, I have gone through quite a few brands. Powerstep, Spenco, custom made, Linko, and right now I am trying New Balance. They seem to be okay, but again, I don't think they offer as much cushioning. If I don't get arch pain, I get metatarsal pain. I would be curious to know how Shockblockers would work, though. Never heard of that brand.
I think also you need a good boot with a nice thick sole. I have cheaper boots with a thin sole and the ball of my feet hurt. But in my Salomon GTXs they don't.
As far as money goes, invest in your feet - boot and insole wise. $40 for insoles is nothing, esp if you obtain the comfort to go places.
Superfeet bothered my legs and feet a great deal before I junked them. They seem mostly support and not so much shock absorption. From my experience it seems like if you already have good arches Superfeet would rob them of their normal shock-absorbing action by blocking proper movement. They seem to replace normal arch mechanisms with a propped-up, immobile arch. Wouldn't prolonged use pretty much remove arch strength, rather like prolonged wearing of a cast or brace weakens leg muscles?
It seems like if you don't have bad arches before using them you will afterwards? No wonder the literature goes on about wearing them all the time. I find anything with too much arch support bothers my feet. Try a running a marathon like that, it becomes excruciating!
On the other hand, if your feet need that support I could see how Superfeet could make a big difference. But I can't help thinking it is like prescribing eyeglasses for everyone even those with good vision.
Mouse - you are dead-on. Using arch supports - or any foot support for any part of the foot from heel to toe and in between - will create problems if they are not "designed" for your foot.
If someone has high arches, then a high-arch support may be good, but if it is a rigid one, probably not. A semi-rigid insole is usually best. Likewise, if someone has flatter feet, using a rigid arch product will wreak havoc on their walking mechanics, and will transfer the stress up the legs. Women will have more knee problems (due to the angle from the pelvis) and men will have more hip/pelvis trouble. If left long enough, the stress transfer and compensation can create back problems, and them you're in real trouble! :(
If anyone finds that they have foot or ankle problems after making sure boots are appropriate and feel right when hiking, and store-bought insoles are tried out and do not help - you need to get custom orthotics. These do not have to be expensive; podiatrists are obviously a good choice, but so are chiropractors who do a lot of sports-related work and make their own orthotics -- as I do. Insurance can cover it most times.
Your feet and ankles are probably your MOST important piece of "gear"; taking care of them is like taking care of your teeth, hike or no hike - you don't only brush before and after a dentist visit, do you (please say no...:bse ) You need to take care of your feet for the hike, but also to make sure you don't create foot and ankle mechanical problems that could last forever after the big hike.... Sue :D
Twofiddy
01-14-2006, 20:15
Hi
So today I went to my local Eastern Mountain Sports and checked out some boot insoles. I currently have super feet (35$) but am only so so happy with them..
Further down in the post you say that your super feet are in two pieces?? That is probably why you are not happy with them and it is time to replace them.
I don't think the shock absorption is all it could be. Anyway, I explained to the salesmen that my problem in the past regarding foot pain has mostly been pain in the balls of my feet.
This sounds like you arch is not properly supported.
He suggested a pair of Ed Visiteurs custom foot beds. Not much written on the package other than that Ed Visiteur swears by them when he is climbing the world's 8000 meter peaks!! These foot beds you put into an oven, set at 200 degrees F for two minutes. Take em out and put em in your boots. You stand in your shoes with the foot beds in them for two minutes and then the in soles are supposedly perfectly molded to your feet.
I am not saying that the EMS sales person did not follow the directions properly, but if you are stainding on a hot foot bed to shape it, you are not holding your foot in the anitomicaly correct position, since you are standing, on a soft foot bed, your arch is not supported, and there for you are most likely getting no support out of those foot beds. FYI, Ed Visiteurs are ok footbeds, probably not worth $45, but regular Superfeet are $35 and things are expensive these days.
I asked the salesmean how the insoldes would hold up with very wet feet as my current super feet have had the two parts come unglued from very wet conditions. He relied..well just how wet do you expect your feet to get? perhaps what you need is new boots.
He is a sales man right??
Well I was willing to give these new insoles a try but when I got to the counter I discovered the price (not written on the package) was 42 dollars.
That was too much to swallow so I gavem them back. It has nothing to do with being able to afford or not..I just have a hard time justifying so much money for boot insoles given that the package and the salesman have so little to say about them!
I'd say keep buying superfeet, after all they have the money back guarantee for 30 days.
Is it really possible the EMS salesman was a clueless as I think he was?
It is very possible, did you ask him how far he has hiked, did you ask him what was in his shoes, further more did he show you what was in his shoes, did he offer to install the footbeds into your shoes for you and shim and shape and rub your boots to get your new footbeds feeling great. You cant buy footbeds unless you have your boots there to fit them in and make sure that they are going to work.
But the main part of my question is.. what are the best insoles to have to best protect my feet from all the pounding..I am concerned especially about possible pain in balls of feet (ie up front and underneath). The boots I am using are EMS Summit Goretex II about a year old, broken in and stil in descent condition.
The best insoles to have are the ones that work the best for you. For most people, and I say most, superfeet give the typical foot customer excellent support and are actually recommended by many foot Dr.s instead of expensive custom footbeds.
Has anyone ever tried these 42 dollar Ed Visiteur custom Foot beds? are they worth it? if not What are the best insoles to have?
I have no personal experience with these footbeds but I have seen them in EMS and I think that they look like a quality product.
Do the outfitters a long the AT stock Boot insoles?
Nearly ever single outfitter sells Super Feet because they work, many also Sell Montrail Integrafit insoles.
I am looking for boot insoles that will keep my feet happy as I trudge over hill and dale along the AT this spring !
If you need new insoles, I would probably just replace your definalty worn out super feet that are in two pieces. Or go see your foot Dr.
Twofiddy
01-14-2006, 20:30
.
Second, many EMS stores now have a "foot guru." I would seek his/her advice before making a decision on inserts. If the Concord store does not have a foot guru, then go to another store that does have one.
How does one become a "foot guru"?? I am sure they put you through a 1 hour clinic on feet. Add that 1 hour to the other limited experience that some of these people have and you got some one that has been through a 1 hour foot clinic. Find someone who has been through Dr. Phil Orien's foot clinic. It is a multiday clinic, and most of these people know there stuff. Ask the foot GURU what he uses to stretch a shoe when no rubbing bar is avaliable... My girlfriend calls in the shopping bag trick, because I use the shopping bag holder at Gander Mountain as a rubbing bar when I take friends there in my hometown to help them buy boots.
Even that said however, your own pink factor, (my definition on how big of a sissy you are with pain) will still be the determining factor for foot comfort. Some one above mentioned cushon. Your own foot has its own natural fat pads for cushon. If your foot is supported in its proper anitomical position, and your fat pad on your heel is squeezed together ever so slightly by a heel cup, your own foot should provide plenty of cushon for it self. People who are using cushon type insoles, usually have lots of hard callus all over there feet to take care of the places where the feet rub ever time there foot moves with the cushon.
Work out, Lift weights, Do Squats, and Lunges, and Calf Raises,and leg curls and leg extensions, and stretch real good, and stretch alot. That will help alot of your feet problems too.
well after reading the replies and doind a little research..I decided to go with shockblockers (order a pair yesterday from www.shockblockers.com (http://www.shockblockers.com) cost just 30$.
David
A few days ago, Marlton (http://member.php?u=7529) became a WhiteBlaze member. Within 45 minutes, he posted 8 times; every post about insoles.
Is he an enthusiastic Shockblockers customer, or did he buy the company?!! We may never know, but the advertising worked.
If they're as good as he says, maybe I should buy a pair, too.