What sort of shelf life can I expect from Aquamira drops?

[Bird Dawg]

I purchased Aquamira drops back in March of 2015. The product was stored indoors in climate controlled conditions. I opened the kit and used it on my AT section hike last October. One of the bottles has an expiration date of October 2018 on it. Does the expiration date apply to an unopened product? Or, does the expiration date still apply if the product has been used? I guess I am wondering if the shelf life is shortened once the drops have been opened and used. I want to take these drops with me as a "back up" for my upcoming section hike in early October.

[MuddyWaters]

There is expiration date of a year on bottles of drinking water.
It's millions of years old.

A few months for spam. But they believe it may last 30 yrs or more, already been proven to last at least about 15 yrs.

Could AM degrade? Maybe. Bottles could get brittle and crack too. But I wouldn't worry about it within a few yrs.

[gpburdelljr]

There is expiration date of a year on bottles of drinking water.
It's millions of years old.

A few months for spam. But they believe it may last 30 yrs or more, already been proven to last at least about 15 yrs.

Could AM degrade? Maybe. Bottles could get brittle and crack too. But I wouldn't worry about it within a few yrs.

Bottled water is not sterile, so eventually bacteria can start growing to potentially harmful levels, hence the expiration date.

AM is a chemical and can degrade, which is why the bottles have an expiration date. Once opened, if it is kept tightly sealed and out of extreme heat it is probably good thru its expiration date.

[colorado_rob]

AM is a chemical and can degrade, which is why the bottles have an expiration date. Once opened, if it is kept tightly sealed and out of extreme heat it is probably good thru its expiration date.What degradation are you talking about? I'm not a chemist, but I doubt anything degrades in AM for a long, long time. Call me a skeptic, but "expiration dates" on most products are simply to make paranoid folks buy more product.

AM part A is chlorine dioxide. Part b is phosphoric acid. Do either of these chemicals "degrade" significantly over a few years? Doubtful. If someone disputes this, can they provide a technical explanation?

As MW says, years and years and years for AM drops, most likely.

[gpburdelljr]

What degradation are you talking about? I'm not a chemist, but I doubt anything degrades in AM for a long, long time. Call me a skeptic, but "expiration dates" on most products are simply to make paranoid folks buy more product.

AM part A is chlorine dioxide. Part b is phosphoric acid. Do either of these chemicals "degrade" significantly over a few years? Doubtful. If someone disputes this, can they provide a technical explanation?

As MW says, years and years and years for AM drops, most likely.

Yes they degrade. You can buy this article on chlorine dioxide degradation at the following link if you want to delve into the technical information.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0043135482902214

[colorado_rob]

Yes they degrade. You can buy this article on chlorine dioxide degradation at the following link if you want to delve into the technical information.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0043135482902214do you have information as to its degradation rate that we would have access to without paying for something this eclectic? Please share and quantify "yes they degrade" ?

[gpburdelljr]

do you have information as to its degradation rate that we would have access to without paying for something this eclectic? Please share and quantify "yes they degrade" ?

Do you have anything to support your statement that expiration dates are a ploy to get you to buy more product. I provided a scientific paper reference, can you do the same?

[colorado_rob]

Do you have anything to support your statement that expiration dates are a ploy to get you to buy more product. I provided a scientific paper reference, can you do the same?I do not have any proof. I do thoroughly repect journalists such as John Oliver, who ran this little bit:

http://www.businessinsider.com/john-oliver-says-expiration-dates-are-bogus-2015-7

Admittedly not directly applicable, but it goes to the mind set of industries who can say whatever they want on various subjects, because things like expiration dates are not regulated.

Nor do you have any proof, as you have not provided such a paper, because it is unavailable, unless one want to fork over the $$$, and apparently you have not, or maybe you'd share if you did? From the abstract, I don't see any actual decomposition rates. Weeks to half strength? Years? Decades? All silly argument aside, it really would be nice to know the original post: the effective shelf life of Aqua Mira.

I googled "stability of chlorine dioxide", saw nothing about stability of the solution found in Aqua Mira.

[gpburdelljr]

Scenario 1: You need to treat your water in an area known to have giardia in the water supply. Should you believe the chemical engineers that developed AM, and not use it past its expiration date, or should you believe someone, that professes to not being a chemist, and use out of date AM? The answer for me is very simple.

Scenario 2: Your child has pneumonia and needs antibiotics. Should you believe the people that manufactures the antibiotic and get a new prescription if what you have on hand is out of date, or do you believe someone with that tells you to use the outdated antibiotic, without backing up their opinion? The answer for me is very simple.

[colorado_rob]

Scenario 1: You need to treat your water in an area known to have giardia in the water supply. Should you believe the chemical engineers that developed AM, and not use it past its expiration date, or should you believe someone, that professes to not being a chemist, and use out of date AM? The answer for me is very simple.

Scenario 2: Your child has pneumonia and needs antibiotics. Should you believe the people that manufactures the antibiotic and get a new prescription if what you have on hand is out of date, or do you believe someone with that tells you to use the outdated antibiotic, without backing up their opinion? The answer for me is very simple. Funny, my wife who works in the medical field, laughs at antibiotic (and other medicine) expiration dates. I do have to agree though, for my kids with a serious disease, I'd be conservative. For myself, merely a year out of date, I wouldn't hesitate.

As far as your first comment goes, hard to argue at face value, but really, it would be nice to find out the real shelf life, no? I just checked and my two kits of AM are both expired.... I will continue using them as they are both barely expired and are almost assuredly still very effective. Maybe I'll go from 7 drops per quart to 8-9 or so, just to be safe. Nah, that's silly. They are just fine. they still turn the same dark yellow when mixed and have the pungent chlorine odor.

Enjoy your ultraconservative lifestyle! I'm sure everything will work out splendidly for you, and our economy (and my Pfizer stock price) thanks you!

Bah-bye!

[MuddyWaters]

Yes they degrade. You can buy this article on chlorine dioxide degradation at the following link if you want to delve into the technical information.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0043135482902214


Chlorine dioxide solutions are NOT stable.
But AM isnt chlorine dioxide. It makes chlorine dioxide.

Its sodium chlorite solution, and phosphoric acid solution. When you acidize the sodium chlorite, you make chlorine dioxide and a salt basically.
Both reactants are reasonably stable.

Few chemicals rapidly go from good one day, to not good the next, under constant stable conditions. If anything, degradation is slow and probably linear with time.

BTW, the AM dosage is calculated to make 4 ppm ClO2 per liter, based on the label compositions. If it suddenly is no good, it has not met the 4ppm treatment concentration (based on EPA treatment guidelines) for ClO2 for some while. The simple answer is...its fine. If kept in cool place out of UV light, I would expect the bottles to degrade and crack befor the contents degrade significantly. I wouldnt worry until it was a couple years old. If I mixed it and still got strong yellow color and ClO2 smell........its good to go.

And even if it did degrade, the AM specified treatment times are pretty conservative unless you drinking sewage. They are based on treating cold , fairly heavily contaminated water in an EPA test. The same test used for water purifier certification. Only AM liquid isnt certified that way because of difficulty controlling the concentration due to drop size and ClO2 loss from open mixing cup, etc. Treatment guideline is overly conservative for nearly pristine spring water on mountain tops.

Oh yeah, I am a chemical engineer. Which is why I only add half the recommended amt, and wait only a few minutes most of the time.
Giardia is deactivated 1000x in 5 minutes. bacteria and viruses killed in about a minute.

Do I need 10e-6x giardia reduction? how many cysts are in my water in mountain top springs 1 or 2? Only 75% of people are even succeptible at all. Only like 20% are sickened by exposure to just 1 cyst. And most spring water, doesnt even need to be treated .

I can guage how strong AM water treatement is from just the smell and color and taste. It would be hard to not be treating substantially and not know it.

[cmoulder]

If you use the daily pre-mix method and want to reduce degradation of liquid AM during the mixing phase even more, simply put 30 drops of A into the mixing cup and suck it into a 3ml dropper bottle by squeezing the 3ml bottle and letting the vacuum action draw it into the 3ml bottle, and then repeat the process for the B part of the solution.

I find that the resulting 60 drops of mixture is just about right for me for a day's water needs and is perfect for a 3ml dropper bottle. YMMV.

[Offshore]

do you have information as to its degradation rate that we would have access to without paying for something this eclectic? Please share and quantify "yes they degrade" ?

He's provided a reference that chlorine dioxide degrades. If you want to take it further, do a search using your own resources.Before you do, be aware the reference he cites was not "eclectic" at all. It's pretty typical of a peer-reviewed scientific paper.

To get a rough idea of the degradation rate, look at the expiration date on the bottle. The expiration date that AM assigns likely takes into account the degradation rate (once manufactured, how much time can pass before enough of the product degrades to render it ineffective) plus a safety margin for the effects of non-optimal storage and handling (ie. not sitting on a shelf in a lab at 20 C). As a reality check, you're looking at a $15 item with a shelf life of ~4 years - hardly worth getting into false obsolescence conspiracy theories. Get out and and use it more - end of problem!

[daddytwosticks]

Jeeze...

I store my AM in the refrigerator all the time when not hiking. I trust the expiration date and trash what remains by that time. I've been using AM for years and have had no problems. The stuff is relatively cheap, so toss after expiration date. My only grip? My last set of bottles were in a round traditional shaped bottle vice the normal square ones. The round ones were a sonofabitch to squeeze! :)

[Offshore]

Bottled water is not sterile, so eventually bacteria can start growing to potentially harmful levels, hence the expiration date.

AM is a chemical and can degrade, which is why the bottles have an expiration date. Once opened, if it is kept tightly sealed and out of extreme heat it is probably good thru its expiration date.

Its not due to bacterial - FDA regulations for bottled water are very similar to EPA regulations governing drinking water from the tap. The reason for expiration dates on bottled water is due to the plastic bottle. Plastics, especially the clear PET commonly used, is not absolutely gas tight so if you let a bottle of water sit around for a long period of time, it will pick up an off taste from outside the bottle. There is also the potential issue of leaching from the plastic into the water over a long period of time.

[left52side]

Wow never realized A heated conversation would come out of A simple question lol.
Anyway sorry I could not input on your question as I have no proof either and honestly with as little as I use my AM I am sure it is expired,but then again I rarely treat my water anyway and have never had A problem(knocks on wood).
My point is I think folks tent to overthink things and worry to much instead of enjoying the adventure.
Hell that milk in the fridge that expired two days ago inst gonna kill you....