View Full Version : Canister stove & pot question
poolskaterx
08-25-2016, 17:23
I really like the convenience of a canister stove, I have the Optimus stove and pot that has the heat exchanger on it. As I am a gram counter I am looking to shave weight, but I really like the boil time of this setup. Any thoughts on getting a different pot (ti) that does not have a heat exchanger and do you think it would slow my boil time down/take more fuel? Love to hear experiences and preference.
Rex Clifton
08-25-2016, 17:36
If you go solo my favorite is the Snow Peak 700. With my Soto Micro regulator
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poolskaterx
08-25-2016, 18:19
soto micro stove looks nearly identical to the optimus except igniter.
poolskaterx
08-25-2016, 18:30
soto micro stove looks nearly identical to the optimus except igniter.
MFG specs show soto to be 10grams lighter and burn 260W hotter at max than my optimus, however optimus folds up smaller. The pot is really the thing I am thinking about changing. Pretty sure I can save an additional 3-4 oz off current... just don't want to be bummed on boil times. If I don't get much feedback I will buy a ti pot and do some side by side boil tests to see if there really is that much difference; besides the added oz the heat exchanger has lots of prickly edges that catch or could cause cutting damage.
Be very careful. Do you have the Optimus Crux stove and Optimus Weekend HE cookset? Pictures would help.
Once upon a time I was lusting for a fancy Ti pot to replace my ancient aluminum 1 liter pot and lid. Saving weight and all that. So I weighed my current cookset and looked at Ti 1 liter products and guess what? My antique pot & lid is lighter that Ti 1 liter pots. They cost several times more than my $10 pot. Aluminum transfers heat better than Ti. AND, my little pot holds TWO 110 gram MSR canisters.
Long story short: Sometimes it's better to keep what you have and know.
Now, go through your pack and see what you can remove for free and save some weight. For free!
Wayne
HooKooDooKu
08-25-2016, 21:53
One of the lightest (and smallest, once folded for storage) is the SnowPeak MaxLite. In use, it's about the same size as an MSR Pocket Rocket. But pots on the MaxLite seem to be a little more stable as the arms fold flat where as the Pocket Rocket leaves the pot sitting on three needle points.
I paired my MaxLite with the MSR Titan Kettle. It used to make a perfect setup because the Kettle would perfectly fit the wide-base MSR fuel canisters (but MSR has changed the design of their 4oz canisters so that they are shaped like other ~4oz canisters).
A setup like this would be light weight and you wouldn't care about the extra fuel if you're looking at a weekend hike.
For long distance hikes, you might want to consider Jet Boil. I couldn't believe how fuel efficient that thing was (when you set it up in protected spots and don't cook things that need long simmer times). On a recent 16 night JMT thru hike, I bought a 4oz canister at Red's Meadows on day 5. On day 9 (my last resupply point) I bought another 4oz canister expecting the 1st one to run out before the end of the trip. It didn't. I only used it for dinner meals and never used the one I bought on day 9. Not only that, I had to run the canister at full blast for 10 minutes to get the remaining fuel to burn off so I could throw the canister away.
I could easily see an 8oz canister lasting for 3 to 4 weeks if all you need is fuel for dinners.
rocketsocks
08-25-2016, 21:57
Go stoveless.
Heliotrope
08-25-2016, 22:03
Snow peak lite max and a Evernew 750mL pot. 2oz stove/3.5 oz pot. I am very happy with this set up. Light, fast, easy.
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MtDoraDave
08-26-2016, 06:35
I suggest doing the comparison.
I don't know how the optimus pot compares to the Jetboil, but it seems like the fuel savings would be worth it to carry the extra few ounces.
My hiking partner has a jetboil, while I have a SP Gigapower and a 1.3L Ti pot. Even using the proprietary wind guard for the Giga stove, it takes twice as long for me to boil water as it does for him with the jetboil. Therefor, a week on the trail requires 2 small fuel canisters for me and only one for him - both of us boiling for breakfast and dinner.
So, if it is that much more efficient, the extra few ounces may be worth it for you.
If you go solo my favorite is the Snow Peak 700. With my Soto Micro regulator
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I use this setup and love it. I just had an issue with my Soto stove and got awesome customer service, great company.
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poolskaterx
08-26-2016, 12:56
http://content.backcountry.com/images/items/900/OPS/OPS0016/ONECOL.jpg
This is the set up I currently use. Really has been great but that itch to shave a few more ounces. Maybe I should just find a different lid/pan and save the weight there since I only use it for a lid any how? 3 years so far and I really am impressed with how fast it boils water and also simmer with it too; I have made a wicked good pasta sauce in it on Whitney at about 11,000ft.
I just cant go without a "positive shut off" as most of my hiking is in Northern CA Sierras and restrictions are almost guaranteed . I am a coffee drinker in the am and like a hot cup of tea in the eve.
Any suggestions are welcome!
DuneElliot
08-26-2016, 15:52
http://content.backcountry.com/images/items/900/OPS/OPS0016/ONECOL.jpg
This is the set up I currently use. Really has been great but that itch to shave a few more ounces. Maybe I should just find a different lid/pan and save the weight there since I only use it for a lid any how? 3 years so far and I really am impressed with how fast it boils water and also simmer with it too; I have made a wicked good pasta sauce in it on Whitney at about 11,000ft.
I just cant go without a "positive shut off" as most of my hiking is in Northern CA Sierras and restrictions are almost guaranteed . I am a coffee drinker in the am and like a hot cup of tea in the eve.
Any suggestions are welcome!
I found the collapsible silicone cups in Walmart fit the top of my 900ml SP Ti pot perfectly...used for a lid and then used it for coffee, dual purpose item. I don't care for coffee so I quit taking the cup but it was still a cheap and lighter idea than carrying both the lid and a coffee cup
Go stoveless.
Or use an alcohol or Esbit burner (or even a wood stove). Takes a little longer, but A LOT lighter.
I think an aluminum pot will be a little more efficient than a titanium pot if you want to give up the heat exchanger (Stanco Grease Pot for example).
Or use an alcohol or Esbit burner (or even a wood stove). Takes a little longer, but A LOT lighter.
I think an aluminum pot will be a little more efficient than a titanium pot if you want to give up the heat exchanger (Stanco Grease Pot for example).
You must have missed the part about California rules and a shut off valve on the stove.
Wayne
Old. Slow. "Smarter than the average bear."
MuddyWaters
08-26-2016, 21:39
Why are you hung up on boil time???
Does a couple minutes really matter to you???
As was said once " if your in such a hurry, why are you walking?"
Boil time is irrelevant unless multiple people are sharing a stove. Imo.
Weight is more important.....if you try to carry as little as possible. If not...it aint.
You must have missed the part about California rules and a shut off valve on the stove.
Wayne
Yes, did miss that. I know there are areas that require the shut off. I'm a rule follower. But it depends on the area in question. For example, you may still be able use Esbit and maybe alcohol too as fuel on the JMT. You could when I hiked it in 2014. An Esbit tab cannot be spilled and can be blown out with a strong breath just like a candle can. IMO at least as safe as a canister stove if rules permit it. I've seen canister stoves tip over while lit, creating a potential spread of fire. Never seen or heard of that happening with Esbit. Danger of alcohol stoves because of the spill risk is higher than Esbit IMO.
Odd Man Out
08-30-2016, 15:47
I found the collapsible silicone cups in Walmart fit the top of my 900ml SP Ti pot perfectly...used for a lid and then used it for coffee, dual purpose item. I don't care for coffee so I quit taking the cup but it was still a cheap and lighter idea than carrying both the lid and a coffee cup
What kind of pot is that? I have been using an Olicamp XTS which looks very similar, but is a bit larger and heavier than I need. I'm curious how much this one weighs (without the lid). I too would swap that for an UL lid.
Odd Man Out
08-30-2016, 15:50
Oops I replied to the wrong post. I was asking about the pot posted by poolskaterx
HooKooDooKu
08-30-2016, 17:24
..I am looking to shave weight...
You might want to check out this list (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/entry.php/8153-What-is-the-lightest-canister-stove-and-pot-combination) I put together a few years ago when questions on the lightest setup came up.
If you're doing a hike that is short enough that even an inefficient stove will not use up a ~4oz cylinder, then you can have a setup that is <6oz. as there are stoves that are <2 oz. and pots <4oz. (Note: My choice of LiteMax and Titan Kettle come in at 6.1oz.)
The Optimus Crux (I think that's what you have pictured) has specifications of >9oz.
Note that I believe the JetBoil MicroMo is about equivalent to the old aluminum version of the SOL. The MicroMo is quoted at about 12oz... but if you leave off things like the cup that goes on the bottom, it would push the weight closer to the ~10oz the combination of JetBoil stove and AL-SOL come to (not sure if the newer stove with simmer capability that comes with the Mini/Micro Mo weights more than the stove quoted on the list).
poolskaterx
08-30-2016, 20:59
Oops I replied to the wrong post. I was asking about the pot posted by poolskaterx
It is the Weekend HE cook set that comes with the optimus stove. I'm gonna put it on the scale and find out what it "really weighs".
MuddyWaters, its not so much about just the boil time, or just the oz, or even the size; I think it is about all of those things. I get by just fine with my kit the way it is but experimenting with my hobby and refining my backpacking craft is fun for me; if it were not for experimenting and research I would still be lugging around a 45-50lb pack.
I'll have this one perfected by the end of Sept. Spilled fuel doesn't catch fire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQ3M_MZm7A
And this one has a slide type shutoff valve. Good for those hiking California. Will have those available in October.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPuwCTHVOWY
CarlZ993
08-30-2016, 23:35
You can definitely save weight w/ a pot that doesn't have those heat exchangers. From what I gather, they do help boil faster & use less fuel. Probably not as much as they claim. I'm not sure what your pot weighs. A similar pot, Olycamp XTS pot, weighs 7.8 oz on my scale. I haven't used it in the field yet. Here's a video review of that pot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBFt-c33pyA
Odd Man Out
08-31-2016, 11:07
You can definitely save weight w/ a pot that doesn't have those heat exchangers. From what I gather, they do help boil faster & use less fuel. Probably not as much as they claim. I'm not sure what your pot weighs. A similar pot, Olycamp XTS pot, weighs 7.8 oz on my scale. I haven't used it in the field yet. Here's a video review of that pot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBFt-c33pyA
I use that pot. It is very nice and bomb proof, but not UL. You can shave a couple of oz by fabricating a lighter lid (it comes with a silicone lid that snaps in place, but rather heavy). You can also swap out the handles which are heavy chrome steel with silicone grips. They can snap on and off in seconds with no damage to handles or pot. I made copies out of clothes hanger wire that weigh much less. The insulated grips are not really necessary. The handles are mounted high up the side and the heat exchanger is efficient enough so that little heat get to the handles. I like the hard anodized coating (clean up has been easy). I like the dimensions which are close to 1:1 diameter:height ratio. This gives a pot with the maximum volume for surface area. Having a low surface area minimized weight and heat loss. I also find them easy to cook in and eat from (I'm more likely to spill with a wide pot and it's harder to reach the food at the bottom of a tall pot).
poolskaterx
09-01-2016, 12:43
--------------Optimus Cruz HE weekender set-------------------------
360733607436075
...........7.5 oz.......................2.7oz.................... ..3.05oz............
Maybe not ultra UL but compared to the propane single burner I used to pack, it is pretty light.
The kit nests very nicely with big canister of fuel, small camp towel, lighter, spoon, small chunk of sponge/scrubby.
I'll be looking into some of the cook systems others have mentioned to see if I can lighten my kit up some, please know that I have been very pleased with the performance of this kit but am looking forward to shaving more weight.
poolskaterx
09-01-2016, 20:11
had a title error (typo Cruz vs Crux)
--------------Optimus Crux HE weekender set-------------------------
360733607436075
...........7.5 oz.......................2.7oz.................... ..3.05oz............
Maybe not ultra UL but compared to the propane single burner I used to pack, it is pretty light: Optimus Crux HE weekender set
The kit nests very nicely with big canister of fuel, small camp towel, lighter, spoon, small chunk of sponge/scrubby.
I'll be looking into some of the cook systems others have mentioned to see if I can lighten my kit up some, please know that I have been very pleased with the performance of this kit but am looking forward to shaving more weight.
cmoulder
09-01-2016, 20:36
Normally I use an alcohol setup for 3 season, but occasionally a light (4.9 oz) canister combo that consists of an MSR Titan kettle, 4Dog lid and BRS-3000T stove, showing basic elements for apples-to-apples comparison purposes. Of course a complete cook kit includes fuel, windscreen, spoon and mini bic lighter and stuff sack, so the whole enchilada with a fresh 100g canister weighs about 14oz.
36077
One of the lightest (and smallest, once folded for storage) is the SnowPeak MaxLite. In use, it's about the same size as an MSR Pocket Rocket. But pots on the MaxLite seem to be a little more stable as the arms fold flat where as the Pocket Rocket leaves the pot sitting on three needle points.
+1 for the SP MaxLite, which I use with the SP 600ML Ti cup. Together they weigh ~5.2 ounces. Stove folds down and fits in bottom of cup, 100ml fuel canister fits inverted in top of cup. All of that fits into the mesh bag the cup came in.
Most days on the trail I use mine twice- boiling water for morning coffee and more water for dinner. For me, the small canisters last at least a week. Only thing remotely special I do is find or make a sheltered spot to cook in before lighting the stove.
Odd Man Out
09-01-2016, 23:12
--------------Optimus Cruz HE weekender set-------------------------
360733607436075
...........7.5 oz.......................2.7oz.................... ..3.05oz............
Maybe not ultra UL but compared to the propane single burner I used to pack, it is pretty light.
The kit nests very nicely with big canister of fuel, small camp towel, lighter, spoon, small chunk of sponge/scrubby.
I'll be looking into some of the cook systems others have mentioned to see if I can lighten my kit up some, please know that I have been very pleased with the performance of this kit but am looking forward to shaving more weight.
Was hoping this might save some weight over the Olicamp, but it doesn't look like it would.
poolskaterx
09-04-2016, 00:13
That msr Titan kettle and 4 dog lid looks pretty nice.
Secondmouse
09-04-2016, 16:23
Normally I use an alcohol setup for 3 season, but occasionally a light (4.9 oz) canister combo that consists of an MSR Titan kettle, 4Dog lid and BRS-3000T stove, showing basic elements for apples-to-apples comparison purposes. Of course a complete cook kit includes fuel, windscreen, spoon and mini bic lighter and stuff sack, so the whole enchilada with a fresh 100g canister weighs about 14oz.
36077
what is wrong with the MSR Titan lid?..
Just Tom
09-04-2016, 17:45
Was gonna ask the same thing
MtDoraDave
12-28-2016, 10:23
Curiosity about the Olicamp XTS pot got me googling again, and I came across this forum thread:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8603507/1
In the thread, a couple of the members bought the XTS pot and did some comparisons with a SnowPeak Ti cup/pot (600 or 900?) and various stoves. Some of the results were surprising. For example, using the Gigapower stove, the boil times were about the same between the two pots. Using the Pocket Rocket stove, the boil times in the XTS pot were much faster. Apparently, the giga stove shoots the flames "out" more than "up" which doesn't utilize the heat sink fins of the XTS pot to any practical amount. This is why I bought a large (wide) pot for my Giga stove after looking at the flame pattern.
So, if I had bought this stove for my Giga to save fuel, it would have been a waste of $30. However, the pocket rocket or similar stoves that essentially shoot their flames straight up would be a great kit.
ScareBear
12-28-2016, 11:56
what is wrong with the MSR Titan lid?..
IKR?
Since Santa was super nice to me this year, that kettle was under the tree next to the Ghost Whisperer. I'd love to know what is so wrong with the OEM lid that there is an aftermarket one!!!!
Doing away with the Optimus TerraSolo anodized Al cookset...loved the handles on the pot, but it was too small(600ml) for two and we never used the fry pan for it's intended purpose...saved 5 ounces, right there!!! The darn things are so reasonably priced that I doubt there is a secondary market...so, into the spare gear container bin it goes...
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE MSR TITAN KETTLE LID?
TIA!
ScareBear
12-28-2016, 12:19
Normally I use an alcohol setup for 3 season, but occasionally a light (4.9 oz) canister combo that consists of an MSR Titan kettle, 4Dog lid and BRS-3000T stove, showing basic elements for apples-to-apples comparison purposes. Of course a complete cook kit includes fuel, windscreen, spoon and mini bic lighter and stuff sack, so the whole enchilada with a fresh 100g canister weighs about 14oz.
36077
Did you use wire splice shrink wrap(yellow) on the handles?
Odd Man Out
12-28-2016, 12:19
Curiosity about the Olicamp XTS pot got me googling again, and I came across this forum thread:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8603507/1
In the thread, a couple of the members bought the XTS pot and did some comparisons with a SnowPeak Ti cup/pot (600 or 900?) and various stoves. Some of the results were surprising. For example, using the Gigapower stove, the boil times were about the same between the two pots. Using the Pocket Rocket stove, the boil times in the XTS pot were much faster. Apparently, the giga stove shoots the flames "out" more than "up" which doesn't utilize the heat sink fins of the XTS pot to any practical amount. This is why I bought a large (wide) pot for my Giga stove after looking at the flame pattern.
So, if I had bought this stove for my Giga to save fuel, it would have been a waste of $30. However, the pocket rocket or similar stoves that essentially shoot their flames straight up would be a great kit.
This makes sense based on my experiences with this pot. I use the Olicamp XTS pot with an eCHS alcohol stove. This stove is designed to focus the flames on the center of the pot (unlike most alcohol stoves). However once I tried using the XTS pot with a side burning Super Cat stove with disastrous results. When I lifted the pot, the entire bottom of the pot was engulfed in flames. It seems that the powerful, but inefficient stove, was spewing out unburned alcohol fumes. Because this type of stove sets right on the bottom of the pot, the flames were in the enclosed space under the heat exchanger and this may have contributed to an oxygen deficiency that inhibited complete combustion. Or perhaps this is how a Super Cat always works with a wide flame pattern and flames coming up the side with a lot of combustion is taking place far away from the stove. But when used with the XTS pot, the unburned alcohol fumes condensed on the cool condensing coils and then reignited giving a flaming pot. My eCHS stove sets a couple of inches below the pot and has a narrow flame so combustion is compete inside the heat exchanger ring. This combination gives both efficiency and power that is unusual for an alcohol system.
I have not used the XTS with a canister stove, but have considered doing this. An issue with this system is how wide are the pot supports? If the pot supports are narrow, then the stove will rest on the bottom of the pot, inside the heat exchanger ring. If the pot supports are wide enough, then the stove rests on the ring giving a bit more gap between the stove and the bottom of the pot. Based on my experience, this would be the optimum configuration along with a narrow flame pattern. However it seems that some stoves have pot supports that are just slightly larger than the inner diameter of the heat exchanger. This could be a problem as they would be to big to fit inside the exchanger to rest the pot on the bottom of the stove, but unstable with only the tips of the pot supports resting on the heat exchangers.
So for matching an XTS pot with a canister stove, there are some measurements to worry about. The inner diameter of the heat exchanger ring is about 2+7/8 inch. So you would need your pot supports to be about 4" in diameter to get a 1/2" of support on each leg of the pot support. For some of the ultralight and ultracheap canister stoves, I think the pot supports are not wide enough to support this very well, but I haven't seen this specification listed anywhere. Also the heat exchanger is 1/2" tall, so when resting on the heat exchanger the burner will be 1/2" further from the bottom of the pot than when used on a conventional flat bottom pot. A flame pattern that will extend 1/2" higher while staying inside the ~3" diameter would be best, I think.
earlyriser26
12-28-2016, 14:29
I always joke with a fellow hiker that bought a titanium pot to say on weight. It cost $50. Yes, TI is strong and lighter than steel, but not aluminum.
HooKooDooKu
12-28-2016, 14:37
Did you use wire splice shrink wrap(yellow) on the handles?
I too put some heat shrink wrap on my titan kettle handles.
Farr Away
12-28-2016, 15:04
IKR?
Since Santa was super nice to me this year, that kettle was under the tree next to the Ghost Whisperer. I'd love to know what is so wrong with the OEM lid that there is an aftermarket one!!!!
...
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE MSR TITAN KETTLE LID?
TIA!
I use a Titan Kettle. I wouldn't say there's anything really wrong with the lid, but it does seem to 'stick' just a bit. I use both hands when I want to remove the lid - one on the pot handle and the other on the lid.
-FA
ScareBear
12-28-2016, 15:20
Oh. I prefer that since I store my stove and fuel can inside!
cmoulder
12-28-2016, 16:37
Did you use wire splice shrink wrap(yellow) on the handles?
No, that's Sugru. But frankly it doesn't help that much... still gets hot! Silicone tubing would be better, just gotta get some.
Regards to the lid, as noted, it sticks which I find annoying. I just prefer the 4Dog, and as a side bonus it also happens to be lighter. And it starts rattling as the water nears boiling.
swisscross
12-28-2016, 18:28
I too put some heat shrink wrap on my titan kettle handles.
I used R/C silicone fuel line on the handles of my TK.
Works great.
ScareBear
12-28-2016, 18:50
I used R/C silicone fuel line on the handles of my TK.
Works great.
Hmmmm.....interesting. Thanks.
I am going to try some wire connector shrink wrap first, since I've got oodles of different sizes, colors and grades in the garage...
HooKooDooKu
12-29-2016, 03:09
No, that's Sugru. But frankly it doesn't help that much... still gets hot! Silicone tubing would be better, just gotta get some.
I think I used two layers of heat shrink... plus the simple act of messing with the handles seemed to have loosened them up a little so the the heat doesn't transfer as fast... So it worked for me.
swisscross
12-29-2016, 11:22
Hmmmm.....interesting. Thanks.
I am going to try some wire connector shrink wrap first, since I've got oodles of different sizes, colors and grades in the garage...
I bought a few different colors a few years ago just for the TK(not into R/C).
If the shrink wrap does not satisfy your expectations shoot me a PM.
poolskaterx
09-17-2017, 16:10
Over a year later I got my new set up!!!
I went with the BRS3000 ti stove (25g) and the evernew 760 FD pot with a DIY lid. Total cost was about $60 shipped to my door in 2 days!
Posted about the pot here: https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/126495-Evernew-Ti-Mug-760-FD-2-5oz!!!
here is the link to the stove:https://whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php/126565-25g-canister-stove-first-impressions
Thank you all for your input and guidance. I appreciate all the combined experience that is found on whiteblaze!